PDA

View Full Version : EFS (Extreme Fascia Stretching)



Seifer
09-11-07, 1:27 am
"Extreme Fascia Stretching"



Has anyone tried this at all? (did a search and found a thread where 1 post mentioned it). I've always warmed up and stretched before my training, but never during my training so much as this extreme method calls for. It supposedly expands the muscle even more than it is when its pumped, so that later it can get even bigger. I've heard some awesome things from this - claims of 1/2" perma gains on arms even, but I've VERY skeptical of anything I hear that is apart from the norm.


If you dont know what it is (I didnt before this past weekend), its basically stretching the muscle you are training, while you are training (not before or after), but only after its pumped to the max. And not just stretching, but long very very painful stretches.


I did it today, and must say its quite a feeling! Got a monster pump with my shoulders, felt like hot air balloons. Then did the extreme stretches for the 3 heads. It sucked, it hurt bad. Worse than the exercises itself. Then I flexed hard as I could for a count. The pump was even greater afterwards, but there was another feeling, one I cant describe.


Anyhow, gonna see what happens. THis is also supposed to bring out the seperations in the muscles too. Worst that can happen is i'll get a bigger pump. Lemme know if you guys have tried this unique method and what became of it.

Rage
09-11-07, 8:13 pm
"Extreme Fascia Stretching"



Has anyone tried this at all? (did a search and found a thread where 1 post mentioned it). I've always warmed up and stretched before my training, but never during my training so much as this extreme method calls for. It supposedly expands the muscle even more than it is when its pumped, so that later it can get even bigger. I've heard some awesome things from this - claims of 1/2" perma gains on arms even, but I've VERY skeptical of anything I hear that is apart from the norm.


If you dont know what it is (I didnt before this past weekend), its basically stretching the muscle you are training, while you are training (not before or after), but only after its pumped to the max. And not just stretching, but long very very painful stretches.


I did it today, and must say its quite a feeling! Got a monster pump with my shoulders, felt like hot air balloons. Then did the extreme stretches for the 3 heads. It sucked, it hurt bad. Worse than the exercises itself. Then I flexed hard as I could for a count. The pump was even greater afterwards, but there was another feeling, one I cant describe.


Anyhow, gonna see what happens. THis is also supposed to bring out the seperations in the muscles too. Worst that can happen is i'll get a bigger pump. Lemme know if you guys have tried this unique method and what became of it.

Hey Bro, haven't heard of fascia stretching in this manner but I'll check into it and see if I can post some more feedback. I do know that it does need to be warmed up in order to stretch a bit and that it does play a roll in muscle size, but you've got some pretty extreme stuff going on here. I shall try to return...

bovat
09-11-07, 8:31 pm
ya i read that in flex, it had david henry doing it and showing how to for like every bodypart.

i get stretchmarks real easily, so i don't even want to try this.

i did try this, and it hurt like a motha

Mento
09-11-07, 9:05 pm
Talk to any of the guys on this forum that do Doggcrap training. This is incorporated in DC training and I think the guy's name that you wanna talk to is The NaturalG... I think.

Giant Killer
09-11-07, 9:20 pm
Yup, I do it. Not as extreme as DC, which is 30 sec. holds I think, I do 10 second holds. Sometimes it does hurt, but the pump is freak nasty.

Supposedly you can lose strength from stretching a lot, but I feel I get much better workouts that way.

bovat
09-11-07, 10:06 pm
Yup, I do it. Not as extreme as DC, which is 30 sec. holds I think, I do 10 second holds. Sometimes it does hurt, but the pump is freak nasty.

Supposedly you can lose strength from stretching a lot, but I feel I get much better workouts that way.

how can you lose strength from stretching a lot?

Giant Killer
09-11-07, 10:08 pm
how can you lose strength from stretching a lot?

I'd like to know too, I've never experienced that myself. They can come up with just about anything in a "scientific study" nowadays.

big H
09-11-07, 10:35 pm
ive always streched durring my workouts because it makes me feel more comfortable and loosens me up if im using a wide range of motion. but more recently ive been streching longer and putting more effort into getting a real deep strech and holding it for longer and its been giving me awsome pumps, like streching a balloon before you inflate it i guess

Torque757
09-11-07, 11:44 pm
Yes it is a very vital compomenant of DC training, but can be beneficial with other training as well. The stretches are VERY painfull, or you are not doing them right, and usually held for a duration of 60 seconds.

Roland
09-12-07, 1:26 am
Bro, it's the best thing I ever done with my training. I do DC and I do about 1+ minutes extreme stretches, and it is fucking killer, but its bringin up some lagging parts, definately recommend extreme stretching to everyone. Check out what I posted in the "stretching thread" somewhere on here.

Seifer
09-12-07, 1:35 am
I cant find that thread, do you remember what was said?

18-Delta
09-12-07, 4:00 pm
I read comments on here or another board that referred to a study that claimed one is more susceptible to injury if stretching is done for a body part prior to lifting weights for that body part. However, warming up said body part is crucial.

My understanding is that DC stretching is done post exercise/lift, not prior.



Just some food for thought.

Torque757
09-12-07, 8:50 pm
I read comments on here or another board that referred to a study that claimed one is more susceptible to injury if stretching is done for a body part prior to lifting weights for that body part. However, warming up said body part is crucial.

My understanding is that DC stretching is done post exercise/lift, not prior.



Just some food for thought.

It is most certainly done post workout, at least after your training said muscle group:

Chest stretch after chest, then work tris and tri stretch. Stretching dc style before liftling would be a very bad idea.

naturalguy
09-14-07, 9:46 pm
I just started extreme stretching. I will reserve comment until I've done it for a while.

RED DOG
09-15-07, 1:40 pm
nah bro never heard of it, but ill try it tommorow when i hit the weights, im doing....yeah i got leg day tommorow...argh fuk i hate leg day...but i spose thats good cus it makes me work harder.yeah ill try it for a month and see if it helps....cheers brother

ChandlerXJ
11-06-07, 3:53 pm
I've been doing some reading on lagging body parts, and I've read that your skin fascia can hold your growth back by not allowing room for new tissue to form.

Is there any methods of stretching or massaging that can break up this tissue and allow new growth? I think this would be a great thing for calves and tri's - two areas of mine which I believe could be effected by this.

Any thoughts?

Upstatebuilder07
11-06-07, 4:07 pm
I know DC training is based on the same principle, using extreme stretches, thats about it though, talk to intensity i saw a thread he had starting saying he was doing dc

invictus1
11-06-07, 4:32 pm
buy a foam roll, thats what their made for

Northman
11-06-07, 4:49 pm
Or go to a local massage school. Ridiculas prices for a good massage.

Giant Killer
11-06-07, 4:58 pm
Basically, your muscle fascia limits the amount that your muscle fibers can expand in growth. There are various passive processes that accomplish this, but as someone who uses the DC method, I utilize an extreme and painful 60 second stretch immediately at the end of working that bodypart, to stretch the fascia sheath and give the fibers more room to expand.

It is theorized that fascia expansion is also how "muscle memory" works-how people can quit working out and lose size, and put it back on very rapidly when they start training again. It is because their fascia sheaths are already stretched to the capacity that their previous muscle fibers were filling, and now have plenty of room to expand once again uninhibited.

Myself, Roland, ironshaolin, violator, and Intensity all train DC and utilize extreme stretches...am I missing anyone? Not sure, but they can all chime in here as well.

RoJoHen
11-06-07, 7:04 pm
I did a little searching and found this website that explains some stretches you can do.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/fascialstretching.htm

I've never tried this, but it sounds interesting. I might give it a go.

RoJoHen
11-14-07, 3:27 am
Not to dig up an old thread, but I figured it was better than starting a brand new one...

For those of you the utilize the extreme stretching in your workouts, what kind of frequency have you found most effective? After each exercise? Just once at the end of the workout session?

I'm starting my Humungoid Super Bulk (good name, huh?) after Thanksgiving and was intrigued by the extreme stretching phenomenon. Just wondering what you think works best.

Seifer
01-17-08, 1:11 am
Ok, dug up an old thread I started I know, but after putting these in my workouts for awhile I have to report how its been for me.



I used to think my chest and calves were my weakpoints. Esp the 'outer' chest and delt area. Not anymore. After putting these stretches in my training I must say my chest has come way up, esp the 'outer' area close to the front delts.



And as for calves, they are more defined than months ago, but not any bigger in size.


Quads? These stretches havent given me any more inches on them, but they appear much much more cut and defined.


-------

Some stretches are alot harder to 'feel' than others. The chest, bicep, and quad stretches are awesome and burn like a bitch. Calves, delt, and especially back stretches are alot harder to perform, at least for me.

Dozer
01-19-08, 3:47 am
how can you lose strength from stretching a lot?

Well, take shoulders for example. The shoulder is unlike any other joint (aside from the hip, but the hip isn't as extreme as the shoulder) in that it rotates around in more than one direction. Your knee flexes back and forth, your elbows the same--and their movement is restricted by the joints. Elbows and knees can take a lot, as they're very stable. Now, the shoulder being as flexible as it is, can be prone to injury, as many of us know, because it's less stable. When a muscle is flexible, it's loose and long, meaning that it's not as strong as one that's not quite as flexible. With too much flexibility comes instability due to weakness, which is why shoulder injuries are as common as they are. So, if a muscle is elongated and loosened through stretching a lot, it won't be as tight or stable as before, meaning strength might be lost.

I'm not saying stretching is bad--I stretch regularly throughout my workouts and outside the gym. I'm just saying that TOO flexible and stretching TOO much might make it somewhat easier to injure yourself, and might result in a small loss of strength.

bovat
01-19-08, 11:49 am
okay ive tried this, cuz i heard it helps prevent injury and foster new growth. and after doing it, pumps are better, and it feels like its breaking down the muscle further more, after i stretch my chest i can barely do a pushup.

Seifer
01-19-08, 5:10 pm
I'd like to hear from someone who has been able to effectively do stretches for:



Lats
Triceps

Roland
01-19-08, 6:09 pm
I'd like to hear from someone who has been able to effectively do stretches for:



Lats
Triceps

The extreme stretches have been the best thing that I have implemented in my DC style workouts this past year. It has allowed for more growth and better recovery, it also pumps more blood in the area.

For lats try hanging with some weight or without weight at first on the widest pullup bar with straps and go for as long as you can...the goal is at least 1-2 minutes, it will hurt like a bitch but it will MAKE a tremendous diffence in your phisique.

For tris, try getting a heavy dumbell in the position of a seated tricep overhead extension and really push it back there and let it hang for a minute...it is painful shit, it is like another exercise. I can't even see myself doing workouts WITHOUT stretching/extreme stretching, you can push your body's limits so much further and it makes alot of sense. I recommend you guys all try it once. This is a very OVERLOOKED part of weight training IMO.

p.s.(try the chest stretch--you get in a fly position with some heavy DBS, im up to 50s-60s now, but you should start with like 30s maybe, and really stretch the chest out for a minute and let me know in a couple months if your chest doesnt look fuller and maybe even a little bigger.}

AND REMEMBER, YOU HAVE TO BREATHE! while you are doing these stretches.

Dozer
01-19-08, 10:20 pm
I'd like to hear from someone who has been able to effectively do stretches for:



Lats
Triceps

For lats, try grabbing a vertical bar with both hands, planting your feet, and leaning back as far as you can (sticking your ass out behind you). This is a stretch I feel more than hanging from a bar.

Seifer
01-19-08, 11:51 pm
I'll definately try the lat and tri stretches, thanks for the detailed descriptions.



And for the chest, oh yeah man I LOVE the feeling of heavy stretching with the fly movement. Using 45s last time I did it.


I have noticed that like lifting in general, you have to go up in weight with some of the stretches to make them as effective. I started the bicep DB streches way back when using 35s, now only 50s seem to work well.

Roland
01-20-08, 3:25 am
I'll definately try the lat and tri stretches, thanks for the detailed descriptions.



And for the chest, oh yeah man I LOVE the feeling of heavy stretching with the fly movement. Using 45s last time I did it.


I have noticed that like lifting in general, you have to go up in weight with some of the stretches to make them as effective. I started the bicep DB streches way back when using 35s, now only 50s seem to work well.

Yes, these stretches should be taken as another exercise..you gotta keep progressing so your body gets shocked each time. it should make a big difference.

Themostocles
04-01-08, 3:22 am
Does anyone know a good website website, book, or video showing some of these stretches. -T.

hallde
04-01-08, 3:33 am
for football we used to do forced stretching with partners where your partner would stretch you further than you could get on your own and hold it for some time. I don't know if that is the extreme fascia stretching but it was very painful. I could actually feel the muscles pulling apart sometimes. After doing it though I found the next day I would not be as sore and I did put some more size on my legs.

Meat
04-01-08, 1:47 pm
Basically, your muscle fascia limits the amount that your muscle fibers can expand in growth. There are various passive processes that accomplish this, but as someone who uses the DC method, I utilize an extreme and painful 60 second stretch immediately at the end of working that bodypart, to stretch the fascia sheath and give the fibers more room to expand.

It is theorized that fascia expansion is also how "muscle memory" works-how people can quit working out and lose size, and put it back on very rapidly when they start training again. It is because their fascia sheaths are already stretched to the capacity that their previous muscle fibers were filling, and now have plenty of room to expand once again uninhibited.

Myself, Roland, ironshaolin, violator, and Intensity all train DC and utilize extreme stretches...am I missing anyone? Not sure, but they can all chime in here as well.

I train DC...never did extreme stretching before DC...started out in my first blast only being able to stretch for about 20 seconds...by the end of the blast I was up to about 45 seconds...then by the end of my second blast I was up to a min..sometimes longer...It really is amazing and a bitch at the same time...the quad stretch is by far the worst...I did 90 seconds the other day and it literally brought me to tears...http://www.intensemuscle.com/9527-extreme-stretches-courtesy-inhuman-one-9.html...read up kids

Themostocles
04-01-08, 2:05 pm
Where in that forum is that info? The link just leads to a main page... -T.

Meat
04-01-08, 5:30 pm
go to the dogg pound..then click on the extreme stretching sticky...the pics are around page 9 or 10

Testpolska
04-01-08, 10:39 pm
There are supplements that can be used to stretch the Fascia tissues out. I'm not sure if i'm supposed to mention it here, Its deff not a drug of any sort but I haven't heard anything about it on these boards so I'm not sure its an open subject of debate.

spanish.iron
04-02-08, 1:58 am
normal stretching (not DC style stretching) before training is not harmful at all...so long as you've already warmed up and broken a sweat. Stretching a cold muscle is where problems can occur.

No, you do NOT lose strength by stretching often. In fact, increase in fexibility results in an increase of strength. Why do you think gymnasts are so powerful for their size?

An important part in DC stretching to take into consideration is this:

(note: I'm not sure if this is actually discussed in the DC program, but from the research I've done I've noticed that this is key for getting noticable improvements in flexibility. I'm really sorry if some of you don't agree...just, literally, take it into consideration.) When you stretch, you want to RESIST the stretch. So let's say you're stretching your pecs...as you twist back your arm, creating a stretch in the chest, you want to resist by contracting your pec while you elongate it. By doing this it is less painful and you're utilizing your body's natural reaction to stretching. Most people don't know, but when you stretch a muscle it naturally contracts. To effectively stretch...contract the muscle as hard as you can while you elongate it by using whatever leverage you got.

It's clear that this is how effective stretching should be done when you look at how animals stretch. A lion will reach out it's legs and at full stretch contract every muscle tightly. It's the exact same way you probably stretch when you wake up. You reach out with all your limbs and when you've reached as far as you can you contract everything hard. Do a casual stretch right now (the kind you'd do if you were yawning) and see for yourself.

When stretching you gotta be careful with other tissues like ligaments and tendons. Ligaments aren't stretchy so once they're stretched, they're stretched for good. By contracting the muscle hard you got a better chance of preventing this.

Stretching should kind be like reps. Don't hold it for minutes and minutes. Let the muscle relax and shorten, then as you contract stretch it out again. Each time you should be able to reach a tiny bit further.

I read a lot of this info in a book called "the genius of flexibility" by bob cooley. It's a fairly recent book, suggesting it's up to date with current studies. The interesting thing is that this guy stumbled upon how muscle is able to stretch to it's full potential and in the end found out that the positions he used were essentially classic yoga positions...which are fairly ancient. I've been doing his stretches for a while and totally notice a difference in my flexibility.

Well I hope this was some good food for thought. Good luck with the stretching, guys.

Quadz
05-06-08, 12:58 am
Stands for Fascial Stretch Training and "7" refers to the seven sets you perform as your last exercise. The "deep fascia tissue" is dense fiborous connective tissue that interpenetrates and surrounds the muscles. As bodybuilders we need to expand the fascia tissue in order for it to grow! FST-7 stretches the muscle from the inside out volumizing it by creating a massive pump and stretching the fascia tissue!

Ex FST-7 Bicep Routine

Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
Machine Preacher Curls 3 sets 8-12 reps
EZ Bar curls 7 sets 8-12 reps ( rest ONLY 30-45 seconds bewtween sets sip water)

Rambod recommends getting at least 8 reps per set while doing your "7" but no more than 12 because lower than 8 form usually gets sloppy and higher than 12 you get fatigued and short of breath before you get the insane pump! You might need to reduce the weight and that is fine as is raising the weight.

**I thought this would be useful training information to spur new growth, Hany Rambod is an excellent bodybuilding coach and all of my information came from the April MD magazine**

pmug0000
05-06-08, 1:56 am
Stands for Fascial Stretch Training and "7" refers to the seven sets you perform as your last exercise. The "deep fascia tissue" is dense fiborous connective tissue that interpenetrates and surrounds the muscles. As bodybuilders we need to expand the fascia tissue in order for it to grow! FST-7 stretches the muscle from the inside out volumizing it by creating a massive pump and stretching the fascia tissue!

Ex FST-7 Bicep Routine

Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
Machine Preacher Curls 3 sets 8-12 reps
EZ Bar curls 7 sets 8-12 reps ( rest ONLY 30-45 seconds bewtween sets sip water)

Rambod recommends getting at least 8 reps per set while doing your "7" but no more than 12 because lower than 8 form usually gets sloppy and higher than 12 you get fatigued and short of breath before you get the insane pump! You might need to reduce the weight and that is fine as is raising the weight.

**I thought this would be useful training information to spur new growth, Hany Rambod is an excellent bodybuilding coach and all of my information came from the April MD magazine**

I'm intrigued. Will you post the link to wherever you found this?

Quadz
05-06-08, 10:15 am
I didn't find it online you might be able to find some info on it at musculardevelopment.com...i got most of my original post from the magazine though.

I'll give all the sample routines he suggests and the types of exercises he suggests for the "7" sets if you want. But i'll try to answer any questions you have about it. I did chest and biceps last night using this method it is challenging and the pump is crazy!

arab910
05-06-08, 12:12 pm
i must be missing something, but what does DC stand for? and where can i get examples of good streches to use for each muscle group?

pmug0000
05-06-08, 12:57 pm
I didn't find it online you might be able to find some info on it at musculardevelopment.com...i got most of my original post from the magazine though.

I'll give all the sample routines he suggests and the types of exercises he suggests for the "7" sets if you want. But i'll try to answer any questions you have about it. I did chest and biceps last night using this method it is challenging and the pump is crazy!

I always thought that fascia stressing literally involved "stretching" the muscle. So after I would do some intense sets I would hold a stretch for a while and I thought that was "stretching the fascia". But it seems like what your saying just that doing seven sets with little rest stretches the fascia. Do I understand you correctly?
I think it would help a lot if you posted up a couple sample routines.

wsuiron
05-06-08, 2:10 pm
would these stretches be employed after each excersize or just after your last set of your last excersize for that body part?

Quadz
05-06-08, 11:02 pm
I always thought that fascia stressing literally involved "stretching" the muscle. So after I would do some intense sets I would hold a stretch for a while and I thought that was "stretching the fascia". But it seems like what your saying just that doing seven sets with little rest stretches the fascia. Do I understand you correctly?
I think it would help a lot if you posted up a couple sample routines.


The fascia surrounds your muscle...like wraps over it, when you force a maximum amount of blood into that muscle you "stretch" the fascia from the inside out. You have short rest periods because it keeps you from losing the pump..the idea is to build a greater pump with each successive set...i think 7 sets is just what Rambod came up with over a few years of experimentation...i'll post some sample routines tomorrow.

LHS Monster
05-06-08, 11:24 pm
look up doggcrapp training its a major staple of that training style i usually do the stretches after my sets.... all except the quad stretch bc thats how victor martinez hurt himself so he couldnt compete at teh arnold i always just thot it was a weird way to stretch the muscles and it sometimes hurts like hell but i do notice a diff. when doing it..

RipTheMonster
05-07-08, 12:31 am
What kind of stretches did you use to hits the delts? I always have trouble getting a good stretch right on my delts.

El_Spiko
05-08-08, 11:12 am
Extreme fascia stretching has been popularized by DC (Doggcrapp if someone hadn't already explained that) and the FST-7 is someting different, a training style developed by Hany Rambod of Muscular Development magazine, and Ron Harris talks about it a bit on his Daily Pump thread. Stretching is usually best pwo as it can actually weaken the joints temporarily. Plus you're the most pumped then so you get the best (and most painful) stretches. I usually do 60 sec stretches, though I know my buddy Franco Datillo works with Dante and does 90 secs. It's good for your joints and tendons, it intensifies your pump and there's a good chance it fascilitates muscle grouth; not just by expanding the fascia and allowing more room for growth, but there's also a growing body of research that suggests that weighted tension in the stretched position of an exercise acutally triggers hyperplasia. So at worst you're ensuring your joint health and at best you're changing your muscle size shape and seperation for the better.

pmug0000
05-08-08, 12:48 pm
Extreme fascia stretching has been popularized by DC (Doggcrapp if someone hadn't already explained that) and the FST-7 is someting different, a training style developed by Hany Rambod of Muscular Development magazine, and Ron Harris talks about it a bit on his Daily Pump thread. Stretching is usually best pwo as it can actually weaken the joints temporarily. Plus you're the most pumped then so you get the best (and most painful) stretches. I usually do 60 sec stretches, though I know my buddy Franco Datillo works with Dante and does 90 secs. It's good for your joints and tendons, it intensifies your pump and there's a good chance it fascilitates muscle grouth; not just by expanding the fascia and allowing more room for growth, but there's also a growing body of research that suggests that weighted tension in the stretched position of an exercise acutally triggers hyperplasia. So at worst you're ensuring your joint health and at best you're changing your muscle size shape and seperation for the better.

Yeah this is the type of fascia stretching that I was aware of. Do you know some good stretches with resistance? The only one I know is for chest, but what can you do for legs, back, shoulders, etc.? Or do you know a link where I can find some of the stretches?

El_Spiko
05-08-08, 1:31 pm
Check out intensemuscle.com, that's the online home of DC training. They've got a bunch of different stretches demonstrated.

Here's my typical stretches:

Chest- i grab a cable crossover station, load it up with more weight than I can handle, and let myself fall forward with my arms out and my elbows bent slightly, and just focus on trying to contract my chest while it's being stretched.

Back- I grab something horizontal at about waist height, lean over with my legs staggered and then just pull away from the handle, pushing through the foot closest to the handle. I do this for each side.

Shoulders- I grab a bar a little below shoulder height with an underhanded grip from behind, so I'm facing away from the bar and my arms are extended backwards, then I kneel and try to expand my chest and get a real good stretch in the shoulders.

Bi's- I grab a shoulder height bar with one hand, and twist away from it so my arm is extending behind me, and focus on keeping a solid grip so all the tension is in my bi.

Tri- grab a bar at waist height with an overhand grip, wioth my feet 2-3 feet away from the bar, and then lean forward into it until my head passes beneath the bar and my arms are bent above my head, pressing through the toes to get maximum tension on the tri's

Quads- I like to get on the balls of my feet, bend my knees completely, then lean back until my head is touching the ground and push up and forward with my hips so my quads are stretched.

Hams- eithe one at a time or both on the floor, just keep your legs straight and grab your feet.

Calvesjust leave them in the stretched position of an exercise.

Maccabee
05-28-08, 9:54 pm
I used the search function and the only thing that kept coming up were member's journeys, so I am sorry if it was already posted.

I know Tiny talks about this all the time in his thread and I thought it would be a good idea to post this link up for every one to see and read. It has been helping me get some great gains in muscle size. So I hope it helps you. I know a lot of people hate stretching.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/fascialstretching.htm

Angst
05-28-08, 11:26 pm
Good read bro, there's the other fascia stretching thread: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=10555&page=3&highlight=EFS

Maccabee
05-29-08, 12:50 am
Oh crap. I wonder why it didnt come up in the search. If this can be moved. That would be great.

pmug0000
05-29-08, 12:58 am
I used the search function and the only thing that kept coming up were member's journeys, so I am sorry if it was already posted.

I know Tiny talks about this all the time in his thread and I thought it would be a good idea to post this link up for every one to see and read. It has been helping me get some great gains in muscle size. So I hope it helps you. I know a lot of people hate stretching.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/fascialstretching.htm

Great link! Very informative, and I've been wondering about some good extreme stretches. Thanks!

Maccabee
05-29-08, 1:06 am
Great link! Very informative, and I've been wondering about some good extreme stretches. Thanks!

go to google and look up DC Stretching...do it at the end of the workout. It is some crazy stuff.

InkdMuscle
05-29-08, 1:16 am
That article is awesome. I never had a clue that with the that type of stretching that mass can grow that effective. I am def gonna do this shit with passion and man up for the pain.

newbreed
05-29-08, 10:34 am
I do this stuff with Dogg Crapp training and I have to say I noticed great results.

twisted_steel
05-29-08, 9:16 pm
Perfect, thx for the article. I am doing alot of conditioning and HIIT during spring and summer...but i was thinking i could utilize the stretches just for flexibility and when i start with maximal strength and power training, I can fully use this philosophy.

Mickey
04-16-09, 12:01 pm
just started a fst-7 lifting program today; what results has everyone had with this?

C.Coronato
04-16-09, 12:05 pm
I use it at the end of my workouts. I love it.

fenix237
04-16-09, 12:43 pm
can someone explain fst-7?

Mickey
04-16-09, 12:48 pm
training system invented by Hany Rambod
http://www.fst-7.com/fst7.html

Aggression
04-16-09, 12:49 pm
just started a fst-7 lifting program today; what results has everyone had with this?

I occasionally throw it in at the end of some workouts. I've done it with chest and delts. CRAZY PUMP.

fenix237
04-16-09, 1:05 pm
thanks for the link Mickey! it looks as though it's for advanced trainess (AKA not me!) possibly preparing for shows. i would like to read up regarding diet suggestions to give you big pumps tho!

J-DOG
05-27-09, 2:45 am
Hey Animals i just wanna know if anyone has given the FST-7 program a good run and what sort of results they got and what your thoughts are on it!
I am keen to give it a try to shake my training up as it is a bit stagnant and i am looking to put on some quality size about 6-8kgs in the next 12 months for a show.
Basically i would appreciate any feedback on how to go about how to effectively use the program within its guidelines and what are the best Universal supps to use to acheive this goal!
I dont mind workin my ass off or sticking to a strict eating plan which i do now but any advice would be very welcome!

Now get back in the gym and punish the iron!

Peace

J

Littlefry
05-27-09, 6:05 pm
Well I currently just starting running an FST-7 routine about 3 weeks ago, and so far Im loving it. It really gives your muscles a good workout, there is a link that I have somewhere on a full read-up on the program including how to properly set one up, rep ranges, 7 sets etc...

J-DOG
05-29-09, 12:05 am
Thanks for the info Littlefry i checked out the link you attached and it sounds like you made some pretty wicked gains on the 5x5 program! I will have to give it a try as it sounds like there are plenty of animals out there such as yourself who has had some great results.

Peace

J-Dog

Firefist
05-29-09, 9:12 am
like fry said theres links and previous threads posted already so check those out too.

heres a little summary.

lets say today is a chest day. the bulk of your workout will be your HEAVY presses. i get my regular workout in, incline bb, incline db, flat db. this is where the fst7 comes in. you need to pick an isolation exercise such as db flyes or cable crossovers. 7 sets in total with 30 seconds of rest. in this 30 seconds, you should be stretching and flexing the targeted muscle.

the theory behind it is not so revolutionary at all and hany rambod did not change the world with fst7. this type of training has been around for a long time, rambod just gave it specific rest periods and such. lee priest has been doing something related to fst7 for years.

for more information, a recent issue of flex covers jay cutler and phil heath on thier fst7 chest day and it gives explanations and things in more detail.

mfl5027
05-29-09, 10:16 am
The simplest way I can put it is at the end of your workout do what anti-asian mentioned: 7x7 of an isolation exercise with short breaks during which you flex the muscle you're working.

That's the training. For nutrition, try to volumize and hydrate your muscles. So, take creatine, eat complex carbs 1-2h before training, and drink lots of water. I think Rambod says at least 1L (about 1quart) of water during the 7x7.

I just started it myself so as of now all I can say about it is you'll get one hell of a pump.

Merat
05-29-09, 10:23 am
another way I heard which ive done was isolation exercise 7 sets no rest, each set up the weight, do max reps possible.

Littlefry
05-29-09, 12:26 pm
Thanks for the info Littlefry i checked out the link you attached and it sounds like you made some pretty wicked gains on the 5x5 program! I will have to give it a try as it sounds like there are plenty of animals out there such as yourself who has had some great results.

Peace

J-Dog

Yea the 5x5 program for me is my offseason bulking program which I usually will run from anywere of three 12 - week cycles during my bulk. If you are looking for size and strenght 5x5 is the way to go. If your looking for a good Hypertrophy program than FST-7 would be one to consider.

live2lift
05-29-09, 3:46 pm
As for the supps go with FST-7...the main goal of the program is the 7 sets at the end of a bodypart to prime the pump and stretch the fascia allowing for more growth, so with that being said either PUMP or Shock Therapy would be good supps for this program since they are both to help with the pump.

Peace

J-DOG
05-29-09, 10:10 pm
Thanx for help bro's it has given me an insight into the FST-7 style of training. I know this type of training has been used in some form or another for years by pros and trainers alike. I guess i was just checking to see if there was anything that was specific about Hany's program that made it get so much hype!

But like all you Animals i am here to learn and listen to put to use the the thoughts experiences that you have all gained, as i know you are all hardcore MOFO's who love their training as i do!

Getting feedback from people who live and strive to constantly improve their lifts and physiques well there is nothing more motivating to just get back to the gym and tear shit up!

Thanks for the info animals you all rock!

Peace

J

Littlefry
05-30-09, 3:15 pm
No problem bud, thats why the animal forvm is like no other forums around.

barbell
08-03-09, 2:45 am
Anyone here know what the FST-7 training regime is??

Kingquads
08-03-09, 3:04 am
Anyone here know what the FST-7 training regime is??

FST-7 is something else, there is no training regime for this.....

barbell
08-03-09, 3:11 am
FST-7 is something else, there is no training regime for this.....

What is it exactly??

Kingquads
08-03-09, 4:26 am
What is it exactly??

at the end of your work for example for chest you did incline,flat,flyes and then fst-7 with cable crossovers......its 7 sets with only 30 sec of rest in between to make a better pump, but it should only be used for pro bodybuilders, someone natural like me and you wouldnt benefit from it, it would only overtrain your muscle, why do you need help growing?

theharjmann
08-03-09, 4:53 am
it should only be used for pro bodybuilders, someone natural like me and you wouldnt benefit from it, it would only overtrain your muscle, why do you need help growing?

not necessarily

sometimes we need a little spark in our workout to promote growth

theres no such thing as overtraining anyway....only undereating in my opinion

i find this FST works great with dumbell laterals (for delts), leg ext (for quads), leg curls (for hammstrings), bicep curls and tricep pushdowns.

give it a go bro

just remember to eat and sleep enough.

peace

Kingquads
08-03-09, 5:01 am
not necessarily

sometimes we need a little spark in our workout to promote growth

theres no such thing as overtraining anyway....only undereating in my opinion

i find this FST works great with dumbell laterals (for delts), leg ext (for quads), leg curls (for hammstrings), bicep curls and tricep pushdowns.

give it a go bro

just remember to eat and sleep enough.

peace

this is not a beginner should be reading, now that you told him good things about fst-7 hes prolly going to try it now, he should focus on presses,deadlifts,rows,squats and then after years of doing that add in lifts like machines or cables and even fst-7 to shape up

B.C.
08-03-09, 5:06 am
at the end of your work for example for chest you did incline,flat,flyes and then fst-7 with cable crossovers......its 7 sets with only 30 sec of rest in between to make a better pump, but it should only be used for pro bodybuilders, someone natural like me and you wouldnt benefit from it, it would only overtrain your muscle, why do you need help growing?

You know I never thought of it as a natural/enhanced kind of thing before. I wouldn't reccomend it to beginners though for sure. You're supposed to basically do a full workout before you hit the 7's at the end. The whole thing could push a major muscle group session up over 20 sets easy. I don't know that I would want to sacrifice enough heavy sets to keep the total down if I were a beginner.

B.C.
08-03-09, 5:07 am
this is not a beginner should be reading, now that you told him good things about fst-7 hes prolly going to try it now, he should focus on presses,deadlifts,rows,squats and then after years of doing that add in lifts like machines or cables and even fst-7 to shape up

Lol...we're in agreement on this one then.

theharjmann
08-03-09, 5:11 am
where does it say he's a beginner?

Kingquads
08-03-09, 5:16 am
where does it say he's a beginner?

oh trust me, Animals can smell whos a cub and whos the papa bear

barbell
08-03-09, 6:01 am
not necessarily
sometimes we need a little spark in our workout to promote growth
theres no such thing as overtraining anyway....only undereating in my opinion
i find this FST works great with dumbell laterals (for delts), leg ext (for quads), leg curls (for hammstrings), bicep curls and tricep pushdowns.
give it a go bro
just remember to eat and sleep enough.
peace

Just a case of severe curiosity..thats why I wanted to know.
Now that you guys explained it, I actually am familiar with the FST-7 (7 sets) Mr.Heath mentioned it in a write up/interview of his.
I have done something similar to it using dumbell laterals. The pump was farkin good and I got a fair bit of growth from it.


oh trust me, Animals can smell whos a cub and whos the papa bear

Haha sori to dissapoint but im a not a cub, Ive been lifting for almost 3 years now. But its been a lot of olympic style lifts and I never cared for proper nutrition. I only got into the whole bodybuilding mix this year so youre half-right about me being a cub ;)
Big ups for answering my question tho. Guess you can say Im an information junkie - I gotta know what,why,where and how.

B.C.
08-03-09, 6:17 am
where does it say he's a beginner?

Ok, fair enough. We won't use the term beginner in this case.

The FST-7 system is designed to physically stretch the muscle fascia from the inside out, allowing for more growth potential. Unless you've already fulfilled your current potential for growth (as determined by your fascia), you don't need, nor can you obtain a pump big enough to stretch that fascia passed it's current point. See, the fascia must be the only thing holding you back from further growth for the system to work. It basically has to be just about maxed out already before any amount of pump is going to physically stretch it any further.

For you to physically stretch out your muscle fascia, your pump would have to be so great that it actually causes pain. The only way to achieve this is to A.) Be WILLING to endure that pain, and B.) Have a muscle big enough to be puting some pressure on the fascia to begin with. You don't have to be a beginner to lack either one of those. Let's not forget that Hany Rambod came up with this training system, and most of his clients are pros, or national level NPC competitors.

theharjmann
08-03-09, 6:25 am
Ok, fair enough. We won't use the term beginner in this case.

The FST-7 system is designed to physically stretch the muscle fascia from the inside out, allowing for more growth potential. Unless you've already fulfilled your current potential for growth (as determined by your fascia), you don't need, nor can you obtain a pump big enough to stretch that fascia passed it's current point. See, the fascia must be the only thing holding you back from further growth for the system to work. It basically has to be just about maxed out already before any amount of pump is going to physically stretch it any further.

For you to physically stretch out your muscle fascia, your pump would have to be so great that it actually causes pain. The only way to achieve this is to A.) Be WILLING to endure that pain, and B.) Have a muscle big enough to be puting some pressure on the fascia to begin with. You don't have to be a beginner to lack either one of those. Let's not forget that Hany Rambod came up with this training system, and most of his clients are pros, or national level NPC competitors.

Of course Hany's clients are gonna be NPCs or Pros....he needs to make his bucks somehow! Same thing with Charles Glass.

Look, just because Rambod or Glass tell pros to train in a way doesnt mean we cant....Coleman is the biggest most baddest pro to ever hit the stage....and he was deadlifting up to 2 weeks out from the olympia.....but does that mean we shouldnt deadlift beause we arent juiced or of a pro status?

No....train hard....feel the pain....relish the pain.....then EAT AND SLEEP!

barbell
08-03-09, 6:32 am
Ok, fair enough. We won't use the term beginner in this case.

The FST-7 system is designed to physically stretch the muscle fascia from the inside out, allowing for more growth potential. Unless you've already fulfilled your current potential for growth (as determined by your fascia), you don't need, nor can you obtain a pump big enough to stretch that fascia passed it's current point. See, the fascia must be the only thing holding you back from further growth for the system to work. It basically has to be just about maxed out already before any amount of pump is going to physically stretch it any further.

For you to physically stretch out your muscle fascia, your pump would have to be so great that it actually causes pain. The only way to achieve this is to A.) Be WILLING to endure that pain, and B.) Have a muscle big enough to be puting some pressure on the fascia to begin with. You don't have to be a beginner to lack either one of those. Let's not forget that Hany Rambod came up with this training system, and most of his clients are pros, or national level NPC competitors.



Thats interesting about the fascia limiting growth..Im learning something new each time on this forum.
Great post bro.
Thanks.

B.C.
08-03-09, 7:04 am
Thats interesting about the fascia limiting growth..Im learning something new each time on this forum.
Great post bro.
Thanks.

That's the whole idea. This place is a wealth of knowlege. There is so much information floating around the Forvm, that if you go a day or two without learning something new...it's probably your fault. The fascia being the limit of muscle growth potential is the sun that the FST-7 solar system revolves around. Everything else he talks about only serves to stretch out that fascia, to make it thinner, to allow further growth. You must be at that threshold already for the system to work it's true magic. Otherwise, you're just getting a really good pump. Which in itself is never really a bad thing.

B.C.
08-03-09, 7:38 am
DC training tries a different approach to the same effect. It incorporates high intensity training with extreme stretching, to stretch the fascia from the outside. The stretching is key to DC training, just as the pumping is key to FST-7. Just a little tidbit to prove there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Firefist
08-03-09, 8:52 am
at the end of your work for example for chest you did incline,flat,flyes and then fst-7 with cable crossovers......its 7 sets with only 30 sec of rest in between to make a better pump, but it should only be used for pro bodybuilders, someone natural like me and you wouldnt benefit from it, it would only overtrain your muscle, why do you need help growing?

Ive thrown in sevens (via flyes, pec dec or crossovers) into my workout once every two weeks for the last few months and Ive seen very solid gains in one of the lagging parts of my body. I assure you that I am natural. Maybe you would be overtraining a tad bit, and some people are really against that, but i think its a great way to shock the muscles.

i remember the first time i did fst-7 with cable crossovers, it was the deepest soreness ive ever felt (God i loved that feeling), and it took me almost a week to get that soreness out, and at that time, i was bulking like a maniac.

try it and see if it works for you. no harm in that. If you like it, keep it, if you dont, leave it.

sideburnz
08-03-09, 11:29 am
I did try FSt-7 for about 3weeks some time back.. I aint too sure if i gained size but i really did gain some definition for triceps.. all i did was rope pushdowns.. & by the 5th set, i'd be dying... fst-7 really helped to get my horseshoe to be really seen... but if u wanna follow the other guys by keeping it simple, that would work also.. i've stopped doing it also.. cos its time to gain some nice size.. to do that, u gotta keep it simple and heavy..

Jwnelsn1
01-11-10, 4:29 pm
Brothers,

Do any of ya'll incorporate FST-7 Training (fascia training)? Got to say, I honestly don't think it's very intense; other than the last set, and I'm kind of disappointed. The compound, to isolation, to compound, to 7's training seems too easy honestly. The only thing that gets me is the last isolation execise for the seven sets. I'll continue that, but the rest of the progression of exercises seems like a joke..Thoughts? Likes/Dislikes? Variations?

Peace Brothers - John

Jwnelsn1
01-11-10, 5:54 pm
Nice to see there's such good feedback on the post!

FST7 training is nothing revolutionary. This is something Arnold and the boys were doing back in the day, just didn't have the scientific resources to describe really what they were doing... New research shows the the inability for fascia tissue to stretch and allow the muscle to grow is causing bodybuilders and athletes alike to not achieve their highest potential. The concept is to significantly shock the muscle and fill it with blood as quick as possible. The excess swelling of muscle tissue causes the fascia to expand and ever tear at certain points. It is absolutely critical and crucial that you take in the protein, carbs, and supps immediately after the workout so the muscle gets what it needs to recover, and can help the fascia tissue to repair itself. When you engorge the muscle to these measurses, having the appropriate amount of nutrients to help it recover is crucial!!
The regimn goes like this: compound exercise, isolation exercise, compound exercise, then actual 7 sets of isolation exercise to finish the mucle off.
I also highly recommend "foam rolling" as a means to help recover from this training style. Remember, we don't grow in the gym! We beat ourselves down in the gym, and recover outside! Stretching is just as important as anything else!! Feel free to shoot me a message if you got a question about foam rolling and the benefits of the "stretching" technique or FST7-training. I'm enjoying the FST7 training, just wanted to see if anyone found any other variations with it that they enjoy!

Goliathus
03-08-10, 5:34 pm
So I've been watching and reading a lot about Cutler's training for the 09 olympia.
He said he'd used a lot of fst-7 stuff, I mean he clearly had great results from whatever he was doing.

So what are you guys' opinion on that system? Ive used it before for my chest, doing xovers, but that's about all.
Ive been thinking about implementing it into my training to see what it does for me

WarlordMalice
03-08-10, 6:40 pm
I've been using it for my last exercise on biceps and triceps for my left arm only to bring it up to match my right and it's been working great. I wouldn't use it on more than one or 2 muscle groups a week to prevent over training but it definitely has it's place to help lagging body parts IMO.

B.C.
03-08-10, 11:30 pm
Nice to see there's such good feedback on the post!

FST7 training is nothing revolutionary. This is something Arnold and the boys were doing back in the day, just didn't have the scientific resources to describe really what they were doing... New research shows the the inability for fascia tissue to stretch and allow the muscle to grow is causing bodybuilders and athletes alike to not achieve their highest potential. The concept is to significantly shock the muscle and fill it with blood as quick as possible. The excess swelling of muscle tissue causes the fascia to expand and ever tear at certain points. It is absolutely critical and crucial that you take in the protein, carbs, and supps immediately after the workout so the muscle gets what it needs to recover, and can help the fascia tissue to repair itself. When you engorge the muscle to these measurses, having the appropriate amount of nutrients to help it recover is crucial!!
The regimn goes like this: compound exercise, isolation exercise, compound exercise, then actual 7 sets of isolation exercise to finish the mucle off.
I also highly recommend "foam rolling" as a means to help recover from this training style. Remember, we don't grow in the gym! We beat ourselves down in the gym, and recover outside! Stretching is just as important as anything else!! Feel free to shoot me a message if you got a question about foam rolling and the benefits of the "stretching" technique or FST7-training. I'm enjoying the FST7 training, just wanted to see if anyone found any other variations with it that they enjoy!

Good point about getting the nutrients to the muscles ASAP with this king of training. I would even go as far as saying pre/intra workout supplementation is the way to go here. If you're going to pump as much blood into a muscle as possible, it only makes sense that the blood be full of recovery nutrients. Aminos are key. Intra-Aid and Torrent would be a good way to go, methinks...but maybe take them each a stage earlier. Intra-aid pre, and sip Torrent during.

Jay
05-17-10, 7:09 am
Anyone doing this? I've tried it before and liked it, I may try it again. My question is, that I was unable to find, can you/do you train each bodypart fst style in that week, or is it only used for a stuborn bodypart.