Food or Supplements? A Discussion.

[Wasteland]

You only need food... No, your first line of offense is food, but supplements are important.... Supplements are the icing... Supplements are mandatory.... The debate goes on and on.

Let's look at some specifics. You don't need creatine. It's in beef and certain fish. You don't need BCAAs or EAAs. They're in meat. You don't need a multi. All the vitamins and minerals you need are in the foods you eat. Why bother with a weight gainer? Just eat more food.

Can you build an awesome physique without any supplements? With just a solid diet? Absolutely. Train, eat, rest. Repeat. That's the formula for success.

But does this mean supplements are a waste? Absolutely not. Creatine is in meat, but you have to eat a fair amount to get enough. Sure, BCAAs and EAAs are find in protein-based foods, but you're not going to get the same results as taking pure free form EAAs after lifting. Good, whole foods are nutritious and vital, but not all diets are the same. Bodybuilding diets can sometimes be detrimental in the long run. Maybe a multi can help. For guys who can't eat another solid meal, calories in a shake may be just the ticket.

So let's discuss these and other issues. When do you only need food? When can supplements help? What is your approach?

[Universal Rep]

I don't know how many times I get asked what the difference between free form EAAs are and whey protein... And the advantages of each. Yeah, they're not exactly the same...

[brandona]

I take a few, simple supps right now...Pak, creatine, animos, and whey protien. I take these along with a good solid diet...Why do I take them? For me it is because my diet is not as soild and complete as it should be. Some days I just cant get all my food in, or the right kinds of food...But hey, life happens right? Add a new born to the mix and it all can go out the window in a hurry....So I take the basic supps to insure that my body is getting what it needs when I can not provide that with solid food....

-B

[IRBS]

I think food is the absolute, single most important aspect to training. You can supplement with the best stuff all day long, and if your diet is off, your training will be off. I supplement much like brandona does, minimally, simply because thats how I prefer it. In the past I have taken tons of stuff all at once, with very similar gains to when I took minimal supps and had my food intake in check.

It CAN be done very effectively without any supps at all. There are very few products that have stood the test of time in the supplement industry, that alone should tell you something right there. Stick to the basics with a good solid diet and use supps to SUPPLEMENT your program, not replace anything in it.

The KISS method should always apply, Keep It Simple, Stupid!

My 2 cents,
IRBS

[Cstlfx]

This basically applies to me, but supplements help me out by being cheaper and tasting better. Many of the foods that have these supplements either a) dont taste that great or b) cost a good amount. Herring has a high amount of creatine, but I cant stand any fish other than canned tuna or smoked salmon. So, in order to consume enough red meat to get the creatine, it gets real pricey where Storm is only $28 for 80 servings. Then I'm allergic to dairy, so I need the amino's and other protein.

Bottom line is, my diet comes first. Supplements help me achieve the best diet because I dont have the money or the palate to eat everything necessary.

[LegendKillerJosh]

TOP 10 REASONS ATHLETES SHOULD TAKE SUPPLEMENTS (taken from Ironman's Ultimate Guide to Bodybuilding Nutrition):

10. Athletes can least afford to have nutritional deficiencies.
9. Our modern diet cannot guarantee you're getting all the nutrients in the amounts you need them.
8. Athletes have a higher demand for the various nutrients that sedentary people do.
7. Supplementation is an excellent way to fine-tune your nutrition for your particular sport.
6. MANY IMPORTANT SUBSTANCES SIMPLY ARE NOT PART OF A NORMAL DIET. (see: Animal Flex)
5. Supplementation is a way to get large amounts of a nutrient without needing to eat too much food and calories to get it.
4. Certain nutrients are best absorbed in supplement form.
3. Supplementation gives you a nutritional safety margin when you're on a weight-loss diet.
2. Supplementation is the athlete's psychological and physiological insurance policy regarding nutrition.
AND THE NUMBER 1 REASON...DRUM ROLL PLEASE:
1. SUPPLEMENTATION ENABLES AN ATHLETE TO PERFORM BETTER. PERIOD!

[Wasteland]

I think food is the absolute, single most important aspect to training.

Agree 100%.

[brandona]

Agree 100%.

Me too....speaking of which...I need more Oreos...

-B

[Wasteland]

Why is it that the most common, most popular supplements are those that are most like food, or commonly found in food? Multi. Protein powders. Shakes. Creatine. Something to think about.

[Wasteland]

Me too....speaking of which...I need more Oreos...

-B

Those are instantized Oreos, with low lactose?

[ThirdEye]

Supplements.... Well i also call them Compliments. Because with a strong diet, that is in line with your goals, the supplements will compliment the diet (think M-STAK -mass, CUTS- cutting, STAK-strength etc etc). The diet will also compliment the supplement (M-STAK -mass, CUTS- cutting, STAK-strength etc etc).
As you can see, it cuts both ways, they work together and for eachother. But back to basics, a good diet works without supps, supps DONT work on a shit diet.

Food wins the day, everyday. Supplements are its sidekick, opening doors and helping to push through plateaus that bit quicker.

[brandona]

Those are instantized Oreos, with low lactose?

Unitll I dip them in milk...LOL...

-B

[Universal Rep]

Unitll I dip them in milk...LOL...

-B

Use that lactose-free milk B.

[Universal Rep]

At other forums, I also see this type of discussion... I want to use a weight gainer, what do you recommend? Then others reply food.

[Toni69]

Supplements.... Well i also call them Compliments. Because with a strong diet, that is in line with your goals, the supplements will compliment the diet (think M-STAK -mass, CUTS- cutting, STAK-strength etc etc). The diet will also compliment the supplement (M-STAK -mass, CUTS- cutting, STAK-strength etc etc).
As you can see, it cuts both ways, they work together and for eachother. But back to basics, a good diet works without supps, supps DONT work on a shit diet.

Food wins the day, everyday. Supplements are its sidekick, opening doors and helping to push through plateaus that bit quicker.

Nicely said...you and IRBS got the right idea.

[stumblin54]

If you know how to eat then you should look into supps to "supplement" your solid eating habits. If not, they're a waste of time, no matter what they are, including the Pak.

Stumblin

[Wasteland]

If you know how to eat then you should look into supps to "supplement" your solid eating habits. If not, they're a waste of time, no matter what they are, including the Pak.

Stumblin

Great point Stumblin. Most people take eating for granted. It's a natural function. I'm hungry, I'll eat. Most people don't have to "learn" how to eat. To get far in this game, you have to learn this--understand strategies when you're cutting and even for when you're bulking. Before worrying about what supplements to take, you should learn how to eat.

Problem is, too many rookies are attracted to the supplements, expecting miracles. In this game, the miracles are the ones you make for yourself.

[Universal Rep]

Great point Stumblin. Most people take eating for granted. It's a natural function. I'm hungry, I'll eat. Most people don't have to "learn" how to eat. To get far in this game, you have to learn this--understand strategies when you're cutting and even for when you're bulking. Before worrying about what supplements to take, you should learn how to eat.

Problem is, too many rookies are attracted to the supplements, expecting miracles. In this game, the miracles are the ones you make for yourself.

Yeah, learning to eat "big" is a skill... And you can definitely use some strategies.

[stumblin54]

Which is exactly why they'll never be any more than just that Wasteland, "rookies". True bodybuilders are ones that can stand back up after they've fallen, which is the name of the game when it comes to eating right and choosing the right supplements for the level you're at, be it novice or professional.

Stumblin

[Wasteland]

Which is exactly why they'll never be any more than just that Wasteland, "rookies". True bodybuilders are ones that can stand back up after they've fallen, which is the name of the game when it comes to eating right and choosing the right supplements for the level you're at, be it novice or professional.

Stumblin

It's not just bodybuilders, but regular folk to who have lose weight because of one reason or another. These people also have to re-learn how to eat. And, to be successful in the long run, they have to integrate this new learning and make it part of their lifestyle. A diet is a diet, but when a diet becomes part of your lifestyle, you'll be more likely to succeed in the long run.

[twisted_steel]

I believe nothing beats food. Not any super tested. advetrized supplement. First off supplements do not work for everyone the same, some may feel results some may piss it out. Food is food. Our bodies are meant to digest and absorb everything food provides us with.

I for one only take whey protein and a multi. Thats it. And i keep my diet super clean and tight to the protocol. I stay between 6-8% bf all year round. Keep my strength up and have many athletic abilities, like endurance, power, speed, agility. I mean you only need to keep your diet simple and very clean and u will be cut and athletic. Strong and quick. Its that simple guys.

Oh and rest is crucial. MAKE SURE TO ELIMINATE ANY ALCOHOL FROM YOUR DIET. PERIOD.

[born0withno0soul]

I believe nothing beats food. Not any super tested. advetrized supplement. First off supplements do not work for everyone the same, some may feel results some may piss it out. Food is food. Our bodies are meant to digest and absorb everything food provides us with.

I for one only take whey protein and a multi. Thats it. And i keep my diet super clean and tight to the protocol. I stay between 6-8% bf all year round. Keep my strength up and have many athletic abilities, like endurance, power, speed, agility. I mean you only need to keep your diet simple and very clean and u will be cut and athletic. Strong and quick. Its that simple guys.

Oh and rest is crucial. MAKE SURE TO ELIMINATE ANY ALCOHOL FROM YOUR DIET. PERIOD.


i understand where you are coming from, but you dont have to live like a drone to become a body builder or athletic. some alcohol is permissable. sometimes a greasy triple cheeseburger from burger king will throw on some hard earned mass when in a slump.