View Full Version : Squats, does it matter how low you go?
ChandlerXJ
11-08-07, 10:21 am
Does it matter how low you go with squats. I go all the way to the floor personally. I did 79 reps of squats on monday, all down the floor and my legs STILL hurt. I don't go that heavy but I feel it. My training partner on the other hand was blasting 405 but not really breaking parallel. Nothing against Adambomb by any means, maybe it works for him.
I still think full range of motion is key on any exercise. Not going all the way to the floor on a squat is like not bringing the bar down to your chest on a bench, or only curling 1/4 of the way.
Thoughts?
rev8ball
11-08-07, 10:24 am
Two biggest problems with staying above:
1. Biomechanially harder on your knees
2. Not near enough motor recruitment
Tell him to put his ass down.....
I see that shit all the time...guys throwin on plates like no tomorrow then dropping about 3 inches up and down calling that a squat. Not so much! Personally ATG is the only way to go. There are few who argue that full rom isn't needed and the folks that claim ATG will promote knee probs, but I've found that most of the time it's just ego. Do lighter weight if you can't go down.
krazyassmexican
11-08-07, 10:26 am
Two biggest problems with staying above:
1. Biomechanially harder on your knees
2. Not near enough motor recruitment
Tell him to put his ass down.....
straight true!
Does it matter how low you go with squats. I go all the way to the floor personally. I did 79 reps of squats on monday, all down the floor and my legs STILL hurt. I don't go that heavy but I feel it. My training partner on the other hand was blasting 405 but not really breaking parallel. Nothing against Adambomb by any means, maybe it works for him.
I still think full range of motion is key on any exercise. Not going all the way to the floor on a squat is like not bringing the bar down to your chest on a bench, or only curling 1/4 of the way.
Thoughts?
I think it depends on what you are training for. For bodybuilding it is more advantageous to go ATG I think. Powerlifters on the otherhand squat a lot differently than bodybuilders. Most powerlifting feds require a parrallel squat (the hip joint breaking the plane of the knee joint). ATG will always build massive strength and size, so you cant go wrong by going low in my opinion. If your buddy cant get that weight to parrallel I would have him lower the weight a bit until he can make it down there. High squats arent good for too much of anything...
My 2 cents,
IRBS
i am gonna quote machine on this one "ass to the grass" he has the wheels to prove this...
more mentally challenging
more recruitment
increase core strength
.....its f;;cking harder !!
Big Wides
11-08-07, 10:42 am
parellel is a must for squats, if you go less you are only causing more damage then good. i personally strive to go about 1" below parellel to insure that i have hit the mark. its easier on your knees and hips and involves all of the muscles in the lower body. if your partner is having trouble getting to parellel, try sumo squats, or going down to a bench, or lowering the weight until the form is flawless.....the only time i can say that i have not gone to parellel was when i was doing jump squats but that is a whole different monster there
ChandlerXJ
11-08-07, 10:48 am
Awesome. I have no problem going ATG, I love it. People look at you like you're crazy. I'm working up the weight too. My legs are blowing up.
As for my partner, I'll work on it. If he doesn't wanna squat all the way he doesn't have to.
I think putting the ego aside is very important. Who cares if you have to drop 100, 200 pounds off the squat? You're getting more work on the ground.
brandona
11-08-07, 10:58 am
Awesome. I have no problem going ATG, I love it. People look at you like you're crazy. I'm working up the weight too. My legs are blowing up.
As for my partner, I'll work on it. If he doesn't wanna squat all the way he doesn't have to.
I think putting the ego aside is very important. Who cares if you have to drop 100, 200 pounds off the squat? You're getting more work on the ground.
I only squat for weight 100-200 pounds off is a huge deal for me....Ever seen a fat man cry?...LOL....I only go parrell, I cant go ATG cause I am not flexable enough, that and the fact that I am a powerlifter, I have no reason to go that low, unless is it low box squats....
-B
bharatoza
11-08-07, 11:03 am
You don't need to go below parallel. That is a lot of stress on the knees. Also, you don't have to bring the bar to touch your chest during a benchpress. As long as the arms are at 90degrees, you've recruited muscle. Go below that and the resistance shifts to the joint.
Agree with me or not, but a lot of things in bodybuilding are not biomechanically sound.
You don't need to go below parallel. That is a lot of stress on the knees. Also, you don't have to bring the bar to touch your chest during a benchpress. As long as the arms are at 90degrees, you've recruited muscle. Go below that and the resistance shifts to the joint.
Agree with me or not, but a lot of things in bodybuilding are not biomechanically sound.
I disagree with this statement 1000000%. You dont break parrallel in the squat=no lift. Bar does not touch the chest on bench=no lift. Sorry, but those few inches matter...
SQUAT or DIE!
11-08-07, 11:12 am
I only squat for weight 100-200 pounds off is a huge deal for me....Ever seen a fat man cry?...LOL....I only go parrell, I cant go ATG cause I am not flexable enough, that and the fact that I am a powerlifter, I have no reason to go that low, unless is it low box squats....
-B
man i go ATG for most sets but once i start hittin one/two reps i go parallel or a lil lower.. But yeah i agree there isnt a reason for us PL to go ATG everytime but it never hurts to do that lil bit extra
SQUAT or DIE!
11-08-07, 11:14 am
I disagree with this statement 1000000%. You dont break parrallel in the squat=no lift. Bar does not touch the chest on bench=no lift. Sorry, but those few inches matter...
im with IRBS, inches matter here, and if it hurts use wraps, i started using them and it feels better, doesnt hurt much anymore.
brandona
11-08-07, 11:16 am
man i go ATG for most sets but once i start hittin one/two reps i go parallel or a lil lower.. But yeah i agree there isnt a reason for us PL to go ATG everytime but it never hurts to do that lil bit extra
I agree...I just cant, combo of a big gut and no flexablitly, ATG is just a pipe dream to me...If i use the smith i can get pretty low....but my gym dont have one....and I like that....
-B
bharatoza
11-08-07, 11:24 am
I disagree with this statement 1000000%. You dont break parrallel in the squat=no lift. Bar does not touch the chest on bench=no lift. Sorry, but those few inches matter...
I know majority of you won't agree with me cuz it just goes agaisnt what bodybuilders have been using to build 'size' for decades. But that does not mean it is functional.
im with IRBS, inches matter here, and if it hurts use wraps, i started using them and it feels better, doesnt hurt much anymore.
The fact that you have to use wraps proves my point.
Big Wides
11-08-07, 11:26 am
The fact that you have to use wraps proves my point.
wraps are used to help once the PLer hits the required depth, holds it for the count, then allows them to spring up with the weight on their back.....it is a preventative measure taken, much like using wrist wraps or straps or any other type of gear
brandona
11-08-07, 11:28 am
IRBS is a powerlifter, and you must break parrell in the meet for the lift to count. How far depends on the Fed that you lift in, just hitting parrell is not good enough to get you 3 white lights. thats what he means...
-B
Syringemouth
11-08-07, 11:45 am
im with IRBS, inches matter here, and if it hurts use wraps, i started using them and it feels better, doesnt hurt much anymore.
Agreed!!!
SQUAT or DIE!
11-08-07, 12:06 pm
i see what you mean.. Ive just recently started to PL so i dont know too much yet.. But i only use wraps forbig weights like my last like 2 or 3 sets its not an every set thing..
prowrestler
11-08-07, 5:32 pm
i switch it up. for the godd old back squats i just break parralel. 5 sets, the i do 3 sets of partials to work on my lock out and to get my body use to carrying big weight. and it helps with tendon strength witch i need due to my knee injury from pro wrestling. then for hack squats its as deep as i can biomechanicaly go.
i would love to do back squats with full range, ass to the ground but after my knee injury it is to risky because i do squats like all my other lifts to negative failure.
your choice but in my opinion do atg squats if you can ( which you should unless physically unable to, not mentally unable to) or if you can not do them atleast to parralel and make up for it on an other quad exercise and exaggerate the lower part of the movement.
I try to go ATG or at least several inches below parallel when I squat
What about box squats? You certainly dont do full depth and they work wonders on your whole body. Anyone have thoughts on that?
rev8ball
11-08-07, 7:26 pm
If you're using a box with the correct height, your ass will still drop below the knees (trying to find parallel can be too subjective), which is what's needed. But, the benefit of doing box squats is the deactivation and reactivation of motor units/fibers to develop better recruitment. ATG may be debatable, but definitely ABK (Ass Below Knees...lol) is where it has to be.
Testpolska
11-08-07, 8:30 pm
The deeper you go more more hammies and ass are brought into it. Staying above parallel allows bigger weight and pure quad.
Personally I can't squat above parrallel seems plain wrong to me. But some do, to each their own.
I know you've all been in this situation...
You're in the cage and there's some guy in the one right next to you doing box squats, only dipping about 4 inches to barely even tip the box with his pants. As he keep tossing on plates your ripping out your sets ALL the way down.
When is there a point where it's time to just, "Hey bro, you know if you go a little lower, you'll find you get WAY better results. It's worked well for me"
squatting to parralell is of utmost importance to those of us looking for muscular gains. ie bodybuilders.
like it has been stated before, it does not hurt the knees, when you go that low it is the large muscles of the hams and glutes that take the brunt of the stopping force.
another thing guys, really take the time to crituque your squat form, even if you think your doing it right, it never hurts to take a step back and say, how could i get more out of this. 2 things to look out for.
Speed- alot of guys like to drop into a deep squat, then explode up, this is a no no, slow and controlled on the way down, come to nearly a complete stop before beggining to press upward in a controlled motion.
Center of gravity alignment- it is fact that a majority of people lack the nessecary flexibility in thier feet and ankles to complete a full squat without a heel lift. as you squat in an effort to keep your heels on the ground your center of gravity shifts forward, bringing your "very susceptable to injury" lumbar region under strain. watch people in the gym, almost all of them, as they approach parrallel will lean forward. Try putting your heels on some 10lb plates, or i like to use a 3/4" or 1" board. and as you continue to squat deeply with correct form your flexibility will improve,
remember, do not be afraid to take some weight off the bar to do things right. it doesnt matter what anybody thinks, the weight is just a number, the stimulation of the muscle is key.
If you see that guy squatting 4 plates each side barely going down with the weight, tell him to stop being a fucking pussy and go down ass to the floor, drop the ego or go home. The weights will come with time, and you will have much more muscle mass. Emphasize the negative and power but controlled on the positive.
I was guilty of the ego stuff when I first started out, didn't know much about bodybuilding, I was jerking the weights, poor form and all I got out of it is injuries and no muscle.
If you are squatting and using perfect form, controlled movements, mind-muscle connection starting out with let's say 135lbs...you are going to have MUCH more muscle mass when you get to hitting 315 with good form then the guy thats doing 405+ with piss poor form next to you.
ATG or low box squats are the only way to go. By low box squats i mean a box or whatever that only comes halfway up your calf (this should get you a little past parallel without the fear of falling over :P).
Its amazing how much weight you have to strip off but all in all its much more important that weight you properly rather then the weight you do improperly.
LHS Monster
11-10-07, 10:11 pm
personally i dont go ATG because i cant ..... people will flame me saying that im using too much weight or whatever i just cant physically go any lower than where i squat too without my form breaking down and my knees killing me
Personally i go down to a bench about 2 inches below parallel but its not a box squat i just touch it with my ass as a reference point to where i break parallel and need to come back up works fine for me but once i get much past that point its like my body wont allow it to go down any further
johncrazy8s
11-10-07, 11:29 pm
I dont go ATG but i break parallel. squatting is the most important leg exercise you can do so do it right. I see the same shit everyone here is talking about, with guys stacking plates and barely bending their knees, but it's not my place to say anything to them. I used to be like that too and i used to have a lot of knee problems ( Osgood-Schlatter's, tendinitis). Once you swallow your pride, put on less weight and go as low as possible, you'll feel better about it, you'll become more flexible, and it will definitely help out on those injuries. I break parallel, and im fucking 6'7". its a long way down
Dips, squats, anything where you don't have a "definite" bottom to the rep, I think as long as you're below parallel it's fine.
SQUAT or DIE!
11-11-07, 3:00 am
personally i dont go ATG because i cant ..... people will flame me saying that im using too much weight or whatever i just cant physically go any lower than where i squat too without my form breaking down and my knees killing me
Personally i go down to a bench about 2 inches below parallel but its not a box squat i just touch it with my ass as a reference point to where i break parallel and need to come back up works fine for me but once i get much past that point its like my body wont allow it to go down any further
see thats ok if you cant physically do it no matter the weight thats fine.. but if some guy slaps 4 paltes on each side and goes down 4 incehs aboive parallel thats pathetic..
We all know full range of motion in mostly any exercise, especially the larger muscle groups, is key to developing and maximizing your efforts in getting that full extension and contraction of a muscle, however does it actually stimulate new muscle fibers all the time?....its also one thing to move a full range of motion and another when trying to move a full range of motion while not concentrating on using the targeted muscles and relying more on the structural instead.
For me, ATG squats are great when I can do them, but because I suffer from really bad back probs, its not always an option for me to do heavy..or even moderate barbell ATG squats. I rely more on parallel squats, slow and controlled movements where I can control the contractions of the leg muscles, and I focus on always getting that pump..getting that blood into the muscle till my legs swell like balloons!
As long as your using proper technique and form, and paying attention to how your executing your squats or other leg exercises, you will get maximum results...ATG or not!
I may not have the best legs...YET...but I can tell you, what I have built so far, wasnt from focusing only on ATG squats either.