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boar
01-25-07, 2:09 pm
I posted this article on another bodybuilding site. I want some feedback from you guys though.

Nick Keough
Cardio and strength training: what order to perform them in.
6/31/06
Why you should do Cardio after Strength Training
Why should you always do intense strength training before cardio? There is a reason for this that involves in depth analysis of cellular respiration in the muscles.

Many athletes are not sure while their training if they should do their cardio workout first before strength training or after strength training. The answer to this issue is that Cardio should always be done after any type of strength training.

Before I go into the justifications of my claim, let me explain to you some of the mechanisms of cellular respiration in the muscle cells.

Within our muscle cells, there are membrane bound organelles called mitochondria. These organelles allow us to perform work with a molecule called ATP. The process of utilizing this molecule for energy to perform work is called cellular respiration. There are three different metabolic pathways in which ATP is generated and used for energy. Theres the phosphagen system, Anaerobic glycolysis, and Aerobic respiration. Aerobic literally means “with oxygen”.

The phosphagen system is the utilization of ATP. This high powered molecule is broken down for instant energy. Creatine phosphate is also part of the phosphagen system. When ATP is used for energy, a phosphate bond is broken off and it becomes ADP. Creatine Phosphate donates its phosphate to make ADP to ATP and keeps the cycle going. This energy is expired within thirty seconds.

Anaerobic glycolysis is the utilizing of glucose for energy. This lasts from 30 seconds to two minutes.


During Aerobic respiration, glucose is broken down completely into carbon dioxide and water. Some of this energy that is released as the bonds are broken is captured in the bonds of ATP molecules. (Marieb 166). Aerobic respiration provides a rich ATP harvest, ( 36 ATP molecules per one glucose unit to be exact). The oxygen allows the body to get rid of the CO2 and keep the cellular respiration going. This process is slow and requires continuous supply of oxygen and nutrient fuels to keep the muscle active. (166).

Why is Anaerobic glycolysis run out so much faster then Aerobic respiration? The reason why is that Oxygen can replenish ATP molecules and no other element can keep the cellular respiration cycle going. The first steps in breaking down glucose molecules happen through a pathway called glycolysis, which does not utilize oxygen. During glycolysis, glucose is broken down into pyruvic acid while small amounts of energy are captured in ATP bonds. As long as Oxygen is part of this equation, the pyruvic acid then enters the aerobic pathway to produce ATP. (166). During an intense lift or exercise, Oxygen is too slow to meet the demands of the work being done. When this happens, pyruvic acid is then converted to lactic acid. Lactic acid contributes to muscle soreness and muscle fatigue. (166). Lactic acid creates an acidic environment in which muscle cells do not have the ability to work as efficiently with oxygen. The muscle fatigues because of lactic acid from oxygen debt.

What does all of this complex biology have to do with exercising? Well it has a lot to do with my theory that I proposed about not doing Cardiovascular activity before strength training. While someone is engaged in Cardiovascular activity, Aerobic respiration is occurring and the muscle cells are working efficiently. At some point in time during this activity, people can get short of breath. This is a sign that the muscle cells are not getting enough oxygen to perform the work of a cardiovascular activity. The time in which one becomes fatigued varies from certain people with different fitness levels. When someone is disengaged from cardiovascular activity, they become short of breath if they worked their muscle cells to exhaustion. Being short of breath means that the muscle cells require oxygen to restore the cellular respiration cycle. This also means that there is Lactic acid accumulation within the cells. The acidic environment that lactic acid produces a situation where muscles can not go through cellular respiration efficiently.

If one starts doing strength training right after cardio, they are obviously not going to perform well. During weight lifting of any kind, Cellular respiration occurs through either the phosphagen system or Anaerobic glycolysis. Through this pathway, the muscle cell is not able to get rid of the lactic acid due to the lack of oxygen.

I used to do cardio before lifting. I thought it was beneficial because it got the blood flowing and got the muscle cells active. I was completely wrong by thinking this. During my workouts after doing cardio, I would find myself feeling like I have no energy to do the lifts that I want to. I did not have the stamina because the lactic acid could not be transferred back into useful energy without oxygen. I was not getting adequate amount of oxygen because my lifts only last 20-30 seconds which in this case is the phosphagen system and oxygen can not keep up with the demands that I put on my muscles.

The process of these three pathways of cellular respiration truly support the theory of not doing cardio before performing any type of heavy strength training.





Reference

Marieb, Elaine. Essentials of Human Anatomy and Physiology. 5th. California: 1997.

speedster00
01-25-07, 2:17 pm
I agree. Nice article.

Maccabee
01-25-07, 2:18 pm
I new that all along but i didnt know how the process worked, thanks for the information man.

hotrod
01-25-07, 2:46 pm
Good read, very informative.

Hercules
01-25-07, 2:47 pm
MUSCLE FATIGUE INCREASES METABOLIC COSTS OF ERGOMETER CYCLING WITHOUT CHANGING VO2 SLOW COMPONENT

ABSTRACT
The aim of the present study was to investigate effects of muscle fatigue on oxygen costs of ergometer cycling and slow component of pulmonary oxygen uptake (VO2) kinetics. Seven young men performed 100 drop jumps (drop height of 40 cm) with 20 s of rest after each jump. After the subsequent hour of rest, they cycled at 70, 105, 140 and 175 W, which corresponded to 29.6 ± 5.4, 39.4 ± 7.0, 50.8 ± 8.4 and 65.8 ± 11.8 % of VO2peak, respectively, for 6 min at each intensity with 4-min intervals of rest in between the exercise bouts. The VO2 response to cycling after the exercise (fatigue condition) was compared to ergometer cycling without prior exercise (control condition). From 3rd to 6th min of cycling at 105, 140 and 175 W, VO2 was higher (p < 0.05-0.01) when cycling in the fatigue compared to the control condition. Slow component of VO2 kinetics was observed when cycling at 175 W in the control condition (0.17 ± 0.09, l·min-1, mean ± SD), but tended to decrease in the fatigue condition (0.13 ± 0.15 l·min-1). In summary, results of the study are in agreement with the hypothesis that muscle fatigue increases oxygen costs of cycling exercise, but does not affect significantly the slow component of pulmonary oxygen uptake (VO2) kinetics.

Aivaras Ratkevicius - School of Medical Sciences, College of Life Sciences & Medicine, Institute of Medical Sciences, Forresterhill, University of Aberdeen, Aberdeen AB25 2ZD, UK
Arvydas Stasiulis, Loreta Dubininkaite, and Albertas Skurvydas - Department of Applied Physiology and Health Education, Lithuanian Academy of Physical Education, Sporto 6, Kaunas 3000, Lithuania

-------

This basically states the same thing - cardio AFTER strength training.

boar
01-27-07, 2:54 pm
yo thanks herc for that article. I knew that there were articles that supported my claim.

crypto
04-15-07, 12:52 pm
ok guys, i am starting on a cut and i have read up that the best times to do cardio is either first thing in the morning on an empty stomach or postworkout. but is there any chance i can do both or is it too much? and my last question is if i do the cardio first thing in the morning, how long do i have to wait to be able to lift weights because i could run about 6 or 7 am but my only chance to lift will be at 11-12 which is like 4 hours later. so is my morning cardio and lifting sessions too close together? thanks a lot for the help brothers.

Giant Killer
04-15-07, 1:11 pm
To post a new thread is human, but to search is divine!
http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=270&page=3&highlight=cardio+timing
post #58 "Stop doing cardio before you Weight Train" by Larry Pepe

In addition to that, I don't think 4 hours later is going to affect your workout too badly. BUT your weight training is already affected when you are cutting, and that can make it worse. Try it out a few times, and see how it affects your energy levels, and gauge it by that. If you are wasted for your lifting session, keep the cardio just post-workout. If it doesn't affect you as much, by all means do it. I get 2 45 minutes sessions in on my cut right now (AM and postWO), but I train in the evening.

MELTDOWN
04-15-07, 1:20 pm
what is cardio ??? :)

crypto
04-15-07, 3:24 pm
To post a new thread is human, but to search is divine!
http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=270&page=3&highlight=cardio+timing
post #58 "Stop doing cardio before you Weight Train" by Larry Pepe

In addition to that, I don't think 4 hours later is going to affect your workout too badly. BUT your weight training is already affected when you are cutting, and that can make it worse. Try it out a few times, and see how it affects your energy levels, and gauge it by that. If you are wasted for your lifting session, keep the cardio just post-workout. If it doesn't affect you as much, by all means do it. I get 2 45 minutes sessions in on my cut right now (AM and postWO), but I train in the evening.

my bad, no what i meant was i read somewhere that if you cardio first thing on a empty stomach, it said something about the heart and some technical terms about how ure heart is in this 'mode' and that you should wait a minimum of 7 hours before lifting and i want to know the validity of this statement.

Mr.Totality
04-15-07, 7:13 pm
wow this thread is like deja vu

Rags
04-16-07, 3:23 am
what is cardio ??? :)
For me its chasing the g/f around when she puts the moves on me.

Marathon_Man
05-23-07, 1:57 pm
before i start the cardio should i drink my protein shake? thats for when i get off of nitro which is today. but how would i do it if takin nitro?

IRBS
05-23-07, 2:05 pm
Lift. Nitro. Cardio. Shake.

Hope this helps.

ironshaolin
05-23-07, 2:08 pm
Thats kinda what I'd say too. If I take a shake in, then immediately do cardio, I get nauseus. So, I'd say lift, nitro, cardio, shake. When you run out of nitro, I think is what you're saying just lift and do cardio, then have your shake immediately afterwards. Thats what I've always done, and it works for me.

Xander
05-23-07, 2:10 pm
before i start the cardio should i drink my protein shake? thats for when i get off of nitro which is today. but how would i do it if takin nitro?

If I'm bulkin'...no cardio and start my shake on the second excersise and make sure it's finished by the end of the workout.

100 percent whey
Creatine Mono
Glutamine
Pro-Carb malto

Cutting...nothing till after the workout and 30 mins of cardio.

HTH

-Xander-

billmd1334
05-23-07, 4:08 pm
Lifting, Cardio, Shake.... just make sure you're ready to pound that shake pretty quickly after cardio...

Maccabee
05-23-07, 5:50 pm
If it says to take nitro after 30 minutes of lifting why would you take it right away and do cardio? Please explain IRBS.

violator
05-24-07, 4:47 am
heres how i did it when i was using nitro last year;

nitro 35min b4 lifting, lift, cardio, nitro again directly afterward, wait 35min, hit the shake.

worked 4 me.

peace

Toni69
05-24-07, 5:38 am
Shock therapy, cuts (or pump..depends on the time of year, ;), lift, small amount of protein/carbs, nitro pak, lift some more, cardio, storm, post workout shake with raw rolled oats added, next scheduled meal contains protein and carbs.

J 2the att
05-27-07, 4:37 pm
sup fellas, im tryin to lose some fat and tryin to get shreded....

so when should i do my cardio....before workout or after workout

need your help...thanx

musclealchemist
05-27-07, 4:38 pm
after workouts, if you use the search function you will find a lot more info on this topic

J 2the att
05-27-07, 4:39 pm
after workouts, if you use the search function you will find a lot more info on this topic


thanx brah

mikedfromaz
09-03-07, 12:11 pm
not a real big fan of the whole cardio thing, trying to keep the mass not loss it, but i do not that its important for overall health. time is always a factor for me so i cant really split the two up. how does everyone feel about doing a little cardio directly after the workout? i try and keep the workout to about 60 minutes and then throw in 20-30 minutes on the treadmill or bike- is this effective method, just started recently. when do you guys get your cardio in?

Tron
09-03-07, 12:28 pm
It's not unheard of at all... many people do this. I used to do it all the time. You're gonna be extremely tired after it, but it'll be worth it. If you're still on a bulk just make sure to increase your caloric intake to keep up with the increase in the burning. Goodluck, bro!

krazyassmexican
09-03-07, 12:28 pm
not a real big fan of the whole cardio thing, trying to keep the mass not loss it, but i do not that its important for overall health. time is always a factor for me so i cant really split the two up. how does everyone feel about doing a little cardio directly after the workout? i try and keep the workout to about 60 minutes and then throw in 20-30 minutes on the treadmill or bike- is this effective method, just started recently. when do you guys get your cardio in?

cardio post workout is great specially if ur trying to burn fat
since glycogen is low in ur body or is probably empty

so it's easier to tap on fat

MassMonster
09-03-07, 12:31 pm
its best 4 cut.... bc u burn more calories and accelerate fat burning..

Toni69
09-03-07, 12:31 pm
Im in clean bulk mode now and I still do cardio 4x a week for 30min at a low intensity (130HR), cause I too am building and dont wanna risk burning any muscle. I just keep it up for my cardiovascular conditioning and help move lactic acid around a bit.

navarro1
11-11-07, 4:07 pm
hey guys i dont get that many chance to eat to start off
anyways i do get my protein in at least twice a day from a shake and foods
but this si my question
would me doing cardio right before my weights have a negative effect.
i usually hit the tredmill at least 8.5mph ill go up to 9.0 for 25min to 30min
then i hit the weight45min for one body part and i do 2 body parts a day. will i grow???
or will i stay skinny??
should i do weight one day and cardio the next?
help me please

D-Bomb
11-11-07, 6:32 pm
depends on Genetics, how much you chow, what you chow, how advanced of a trainee you are. If your still skinny stop the cardio, or at least hit it after training or every "other" day. resistance training hard, tears down the muscles and food replenishes and builds stronger muscle. Many pro's of the golden age trained twice a day. now ask yourself are you that dedicated? maybe back off a bit brother and get more used to pushing the intensity with one weight training day, a cardio day...etc.

a light cardio warm-up is fine before weight training but if the goal is to get bigger,stronger etc then don't do any long ass cardio.

navarro1
11-11-07, 8:40 pm
well my dad is a pretty big guy. my upper body is pretty big like my chest is the biggest part really. but i was a cross country star back in the day. i could hit it hard but i cant show some time or ill lose weight for no reason :-(

krazyassmexican
11-12-07, 9:48 am
first of all
this question shouldnt be on ask the pros

second of all

runnin like if the cops are chasing you before weights
not only will deplete your body of glycogen
but put your lean mass on risk

navarro1
11-12-07, 11:31 am
ill write where i want

krazyassmexican
11-12-07, 11:37 am
ill write where i want

damn meanie
you got to see the sections, your questions to the pros should be directed as them in their own threads g

what if i ask a diet question on the paks area?
doesnt go along rite?

ANDROTAZ
12-10-07, 4:26 pm
My cut started today, and I just can't decide on something...

On off days, I plan on doing either 30-45 minutes on the treadmill/elliptical or HIIT, depending on the day. On lifting days, I plan to do 20-30 minutes of low-intensity cardio i.e. walking on an inclined treadmill. Now...my pre-workout meal is my highest carb meal of the day. During lifting, I will also be sipping a whey/dextrose combo. What I can't decide is whether I want to do the LI cardio before or after I lift, or at a different time of day altogether, and when I should start sipping the shake. I could do the cardio at a different time, and instead sip BCAA during the cardio, then keep everything else the way it is, with the in-workout shake during lifting...

I don't know. I'm really confusing the shit out of myself and I'm sure I'm way overthinking this. I just know that I have 12 weeks to do this and I want it done, end of story. No room for fuckin' around. Any input, fellas?

blueIMlifter
12-10-07, 4:44 pm
do cardio after the workout of first thing in the morning. not sure what to tell u on the shake part.

Malloy1344
12-10-07, 5:47 pm
honestly bro, my method was BCAA before + after training....followed by Cardio...followed by PWO shake/creatine. Worked best for me.

YoungN'Hungry
03-30-08, 9:26 pm
Ok i've searched all over for this question....when should cardio be done, before or after training.. and if its done after training do you take your after workout drink before or after cardio? please help

Elite
03-30-08, 9:34 pm
Was just gonna say 'you should know better Y&H', but you seem to be another version....

When on a cut, cardio is usually done up to twice a day. Once in the morning, on an empty stomach. Then usually after training in PM. If training, then cardio after. The best and most followed approach is to take EAA'S/BCAA'S after training and before cardio to halt muscle catabolism, then your post w/o concoction is taken after cardio. Definately leave whey protein till after cardio.

killyouintheface
03-30-08, 9:39 pm
I always do cardio before. That's usually the first thing I do when I go to the gym is find a bike and go to town.

Is there any reason it's better to do cardio after than before?

Pizzalamp
03-30-08, 9:44 pm
Was just gonna say 'you should know better Y&H', but you seem to be another version....

When on a cut, cardio is usually done up to twice a day. Once in the morning, on an empty stomach. Then usually after training in PM. If training, then cardio after. The best and most followed approach is to take EAA'S/BCAA'S after training and before cardio to halt muscle catabolism, then your post w/o concoction is taken after cardio. Definately leave whey protein till after cardio.haha i thought it was carlos...and that he should know better lol lol


I always do cardio before. That's usually the first thing I do when I go to the gym is find a bike and go to town.

Is there any reason it's better to do cardio after than before?if u do it after weights,your gylcogen is depleted and fat burning is easier...if u do it before weights, youre basically robbing your muscles of fuel for the weights

killyouintheface
03-30-08, 9:49 pm
if u do it after weights,your gylcogen is depleted and fat burning is easier...if u do it before weights, youre basically robbing your muscles of fuel for the weights


Never thought of it like that. Thanks.

Joseb
03-30-08, 10:19 pm
how about cardio during a bulk?
how much?
should i do it at all?
pros? cons?
this is all very confusing

MassMan
03-30-08, 10:43 pm
I always do cardio before. That's usually the first thing I do when I go to the gym is find a bike and go to town.

Is there any reason it's better to do cardio after than before?

Carido before w/o is a no no!!!! When you perform cardio before lifting, studies have proven lower levels of growth hormone are released!! That's not good!!! Stick to cardio after workout. As mentioned, glycogen will be depleted, causing your body to tap into fat.

killyouintheface
03-30-08, 11:10 pm
I'm kind of irritated that I didn't know that, and feel like I've been wasting my time before now.

Shit.

MassMan
03-31-08, 4:24 pm
I'm kind of irritated that I didn't know that, and feel like I've been wasting my time before now.

Shit.

Don't sweat it..... you make mistakes and learn from them. Be irrrtated and pissed off if you make that same mistake again.

bigdog8
04-24-08, 7:57 pm
I am currently trying to gain some mass and I am trying training routine #10 under training, first off is this a good workout plan to gain mass? Second I have a pretty decent diet, always eating, getting my protein in and light carbs, but I am getting a little heavy around the middle, so I was thinking cardio? When would be good days to do cardio with training routine #10 and what type would you recommend? Thanks in advance

bigla2004
04-24-08, 8:10 pm
I like my cardio low intensity first thing in the morning or after training on non leg days. If you do this though I would definitely take in some BCAA's or EAA's to perserve your lean muscle mass

InkdMuscle
04-24-08, 8:15 pm
I usually do cardio everyother day for about 20min b4 my WO. or when ever on non WO days.

wsuiron
04-24-08, 8:18 pm
so right upon waking take some cuts and bcaa's and eaa's and get to the cardio? BY the way, would uni liver suffice as amino acids or could i take a small protein shake of say 20 grams of protein?

bigdog8
04-24-08, 8:24 pm
while trying to gain mass would it be bad for me to take cuts? considering im already taking pak, pump, mstak, nitro?

bdb1513
04-24-08, 9:20 pm
while trying to gain mass would it be bad for me to take cuts? considering im already taking pak, pump, mstak, nitro?

thats a lot of supps for someone your age man....

joelast
04-24-08, 10:32 pm
On that training split ten I'd do cardios on Day three (arms), day 5 (shoulders), and on you first off day, which i guess you could consider day 6. Those are smaller body parts, i always like to get my pw nutrition in right after bigger muscles like chest, back and legs. as for the type and length thats up to you and your goals bro.

jeff00z28
04-25-08, 12:04 am
i am about to begin cardio and i am going to be doing it early in the morning for about 15 minutes of jogging m-f, that way i will actually retain my food in the morning and not have to go to the bathroom 3 times. i lift at night. of course it helps that i have an almost commercial gym grade treadmill of my own tho

ICXC
05-16-08, 11:59 am
Animals,

Here's my two cents on the beast Cardio. I've found and read from M&F, the ABs Diet, and just basic research on the internet, that the best time for cardio, is after your workout. As far as how long to go, depends on what cycle you're on. By doing cardio after your workout, you immediately start burning fat. A little science to back this up. After your workout, your body is already pre-exhausted and your blood sugar is low, so as soon as you start your cardio you can start burning fat. If you did cardio before your workout then it would take about 20 min to really start burning fat. If you're in a bulking stage, you would probably do about around 20 mins. of light cardio (brisk walk, light jog, riding a bike at a nice even pace). I wouldn't do it everyday though. I might do it 2 or 3 times a week. If you're in a cutting stage, then you might have some options. If you're wanting to burn up the fat and get ripped, you can do interval training (sprints) or just your basic cardio (bike, jog, stepper, etc.), but you will do it probably about everyday at a little faster pace for a little longer time (maybe 30 to 40 mins a day no longer than hour).

Peace,
ICXC

monster106
06-03-08, 3:01 am
Looking to lose a few pounds, who am I kidding? More then a few pounds this summer. When is the best time to get in my cardio.

BryanSmash!
06-03-08, 3:08 am
First thing in the morning before food.

monster106
06-03-08, 3:14 am
What about after training?

h 3 L L b 0 y
06-03-08, 9:37 am
Thats kool too.

EDIT: Just make sure you get some EAA's in your system.. don't wanna lose any of that muscle.

js71474
06-03-08, 9:42 am
Right now I have not been hitting the cardio like I should be but when I have done cardio I always had the best luck right after training and also using the HIIT on treadmill. Good luck bro!

Big Wides
06-03-08, 10:14 am
http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=18030&highlight=cardio+training

Try this thread out, its a nice discussion on morning cardio

mk53220
08-05-08, 8:44 am
Hey guys Im thinking on trying to lose body fat. Im thinking on adding cardio on the 4 days I lift, I just dont know if I should do it before I lift or after I lift. I wouldnt do anything more then walk on the treadmill on a high incline for about 20-30mins. Also on my current rountine besides the max lifts I would do a higher reps but just a little lighter weight.

Also Not sure if I should get a bulk product or a fat burner. I still have a bunch of Shock Therapy but dont know if I should get Pump or Cuts. Thanks guys.

sanga
08-05-08, 9:03 am
I`ve walked on a high incline after training in the past, it works well but not as well as first thing in the morning.

Big Wides
08-05-08, 9:41 am
Hey guys Im thinking on trying to lose body fat. Im thinking on adding cardio on the 4 days I lift, I just dont know if I should do it before I lift or after I lift. I wouldnt do anything more then walk on the treadmill on a high incline for about 20-30mins. Also on my current rountine besides the max lifts I would do a higher reps but just a little lighter weight.

Also Not sure if I should get a bulk product or a fat burner. I still have a bunch of Shock Therapy but dont know if I should get Pump or Cuts. Thanks guys.

I would walk after your done lifting. Also dont change the way you train, change the way you eat. Just stick to what your doing, weights/reps/sets there is no need to go lighter with higher reps.

TortFeasor
08-05-08, 10:33 am
Personally, assuming I don't get up in the morning to do cardio, I prefer to hit my cardio after weights. Doing it before takes away from my workout too much.

mk53220
08-05-08, 7:03 pm
I think I eat pretty healthy its just that I think a little bit of cardio would help the fat loss.

The Epidemic
02-02-09, 6:40 pm
is better to break up ur cardio or do fewer longer sessions meaning

-doing cardio 4x a week for 30mins OR 2hrs or cardio 2x a week for 1hr?

next question is- when doing evening cardio, is best to it after or before ur last meal?

The Epidemic
02-02-09, 7:18 pm
treadmill settings: whats the best for precontest rpm? incline?

sportsfan4110
02-02-09, 10:44 pm
i would say do cardio when you can because at the end of the day its all about calories in vs. calories out... i wouldn't do cardio for to long so i would suggest the shorter and more frequent cardio sessions but thats just me... as far as the best setting everybody has their preference so do what feels right for you. some like HIT some like low intensity but its probably best to mix it up and do all sorts of cardio just to keep your body guessing.

theharjmann
02-03-09, 7:47 am
i would say do cardio when you can because at the end of the day its all about calories in vs. calories out... i wouldn't do cardio for to long so i would suggest the shorter and more frequent cardio sessions but thats just me... as far as the best setting everybody has their preference so do what feels right for you. some like HIT some like low intensity but its probably best to mix it up and do all sorts of cardio just to keep your body guessing.

yeah defo. HIIT seems to be a big favourite these days. IF you want a change to HIIT, try the standard 65% HR incline walk in the treadmill/stairmill. I hear from a lot of people that the stairmill is very good for your glute/ham tie in....

The Epidemic
02-03-09, 6:14 pm
anyone?

mritter3
02-03-09, 6:45 pm
i would not recommend doing cardio for only 2 days a week but for a longer period of time, i would hit the cardio for like 30 minutes after each training session. I usually walk for about 30 mins post workout, 3 for warm up, 12 at 4 with an incline of 8, and 12 at 3.5 with an incline of 12, then down to 3 for a cool down with no incline. If you do all your cardio in 2 days that is a lot of unecessary calories your burning.

The Epidemic
02-03-09, 6:57 pm
i would not recommend doing cardio for only 2 days a week but for a longer period of time, i would hit the cardio for like 30 minutes after each training session. I usually walk for about 30 mins post workout, 3 for warm up, 12 at 4 with an incline of 8, and 12 at 3.5 with an incline of 12, then down to 3 for a cool down with no incline. If you do all your cardio in 2 days that is a lot of unecessary calories your burning.

gotta cha.. what about the last meal?

ilduce
02-15-09, 11:11 pm
Hey what up guys. Got a question and wanted to see what you guys think. Right now I am currently cutting, and was wondering if it is better to do my cardio workout before or after the weight training. Right now I switch it up, sometimes do it before and sometimes after. I like doing cardio after weights just because I don't feel so wiped out when I hit the weights.

Thanks dudes. The forvm is awesome. Peace.

Ir0nClad
02-15-09, 11:24 pm
Always do cardio after lifting weights, your glycogen levels will be depleted and your body will go to your fat reserves. You don't wanna be tired out from cardio and then have to lift weights.

AFTazz06
02-15-09, 11:30 pm
Always after training, cant see how you can have the strength to lift after doing cardio. Low intensity 45min cardio after lifting is the way to go!

sanga
02-16-09, 5:12 am
Agreed after training or on non training days.

mritter3
02-16-09, 9:27 am
100% always after training.

White-Wolf-21
02-19-09, 1:58 pm
So my Inquiry on Cardio, I am in the Army deployed to Iraq again, and have been a serious lifter since 16, im 22 now. I love the Lift, old school iron grinding mass building followed by peak/definition exercises. Workouts come one maybe two bodyparts a day, and only done once a week, so you figure: Mon-Chest, Tues-Shoulders, Wed-Back, Thurs-Legs, Fri-Arms how much cardio is on basic required in a week? Would 30min before/after each workout be sufficiant? Maybe 30Mins once a week? Im not really trying to cut down alot, but burn the extra calories and little excess Bodyfat from gaining, while also trying to increase a Two-mile run time. Could all of that be achieved by one or the other? if not, what would be a good routine for each, Normal week of Lifting, or wanting to cut fat and gain runtime?

jeff00z28
06-04-09, 1:40 am
this bodybuilder from my gym swears to do cardio right when you roll out of bed. i want to try it but i dont see how this would be productive at all. you would burn fat but it seems like your body would eat muscle

rayzer27
06-04-09, 1:47 am
from what i understand your body will use the fat for energy in the morning when you do cardio on an empty stomach..but whenever i do cardio i always think my muscle is burning away thats why i hate it =/

t_mh
06-04-09, 1:53 am
I get paranoid about this too, actually...could anyone clear it up?

J Wong
06-04-09, 2:03 am
It's fine. If you are really that worried about losing muscle while doing cardio, take aminos beforehand. I really doubt cardio with no food in you is going to make any muscle on you shrink, unless you to "balls to the wall" cardio every morning with poor post nutrition.

weedlewott
06-04-09, 2:24 am
It's my understanding that when you do cardio, if you're looking to burn fat, keep the heart rate low. You don't burn your muscle when the HR is lower. 120-130 is a great range. Your body depletes it's stored energy you kept while sleeping in the first 12-15 minutes. After that, it dips into your fat reserves to keep you going. A lot of people quit after 20 minutes because they think that's an excellent amount of cardio to burn fat. You'll burn it, but very slowly. So long as you're keeping your aminos up as boom said, you're good to go. Keep the HR between 120 and 130 for at least 30-45 minutes to maximize your fat loss and keep your muscle gains. If anything, cardio strengthens your slow twitch muscles in your legs all around and hip fexors and helps with a stable core. Hope I helped.

On Letting Go
06-04-09, 7:54 am
It's my understanding that when you do cardio, if you're looking to burn fat, keep the heart rate low. You don't burn your muscle when the HR is lower. 120-130 is a great range. Your body depletes it's stored energy you kept while sleeping in the first 12-15 minutes. After that, it dips into your fat reserves to keep you going. A lot of people quit after 20 minutes because they think that's an excellent amount of cardio to burn fat. You'll burn it, but very slowly. So long as you're keeping your aminos up as boom said, you're good to go. Keep the HR between 120 and 130 for at least 30-45 minutes to maximize your fat loss and keep your muscle gains. If anything, cardio strengthens your slow twitch muscles in your legs all around and hip fexors and helps with a stable core. Hope I helped.

Great response brother. Very helpful.

TheDarkHalf
06-04-09, 2:42 pm
Great response brother. Very helpful.

x2. Good shit.

IronWilson
06-04-09, 5:53 pm
It's my understanding that when you do cardio, if you're looking to burn fat, keep the heart rate low. You don't burn your muscle when the HR is lower. 120-130 is a great range. Your body depletes it's stored energy you kept while sleeping in the first 12-15 minutes. After that, it dips into your fat reserves to keep you going. A lot of people quit after 20 minutes because they think that's an excellent amount of cardio to burn fat. You'll burn it, but very slowly. So long as you're keeping your aminos up as boom said, you're good to go. Keep the HR between 120 and 130 for at least 30-45 minutes to maximize your fat loss and keep your muscle gains. If anything, cardio strengthens your slow twitch muscles in your legs all around and hip fexors and helps with a stable core. Hope I helped.

This is good.

However, I think that low intensity cardio is only best when carbs are very low or non-existent. Medium to high intensity is good if carbs are higher in your diet at the time. The reason is, with carbs in your diet, you will need to burn through the glycogen before you can get to burning fat. When you do low intensity cardio, it burns more fat than glycogen. Now no one REALLY knows this for sure, but it is said that you will burn less fat doing low intensity cardio on a diet with more carbs. When the intensity of your cardio is higher, it burns through your glycogen stores so you can burn fat. And this is most easily done on an empty stomach upon waking.

So to OP, it your choice what KIND of cardio to do. But you will not burn muscle doing cardio in a fasted state. The only way the would happen is if you were sprinting while on a low carb diet.

t_mh
06-04-09, 7:04 pm
So, in general, cardio does not burn muscle? Thanks.

Cstlfx
06-04-09, 7:44 pm
A good plan to not have your muscle eaten during cardio is by taking Nitro or EAA Stack before hand so all the aminos are there for your muscle.

Follow what Weedle stated. From what I've seen, the majority of people that do cardio before eating keep the heart rate low and it does not seem to eat all of their muscle. Keeping your heart rate low I think gradually uses your energy stores, rather than needing them very quickly, allowing for your body to use all sources, rather than just the easiest ones to break down.

calcaneous
06-04-09, 11:34 pm
It's my understanding that when you do cardio, if you're looking to burn fat, keep the heart rate low. You don't burn your muscle when the HR is lower. 120-130 is a great range. Your body depletes it's stored energy you kept while sleeping in the first 12-15 minutes. After that, it dips into your fat reserves to keep you going. A lot of people quit after 20 minutes because they think that's an excellent amount of cardio to burn fat. You'll burn it, but very slowly. So long as you're keeping your aminos up as boom said, you're good to go. Keep the HR between 120 and 130 for at least 30-45 minutes to maximize your fat loss and keep your muscle gains. If anything, cardio strengthens your slow twitch muscles in your legs all around and hip fexors and helps with a stable core. Hope I helped.


This is good.

However, I think that low intensity cardio is only best when carbs are very low or non-existent. Medium to high intensity is good if carbs are higher in your diet at the time. The reason is, with carbs in your diet, you will need to burn through the glycogen before you can get to burning fat. When you do low intensity cardio, it burns more fat than glycogen. Now no one REALLY knows this for sure, but it is said that you will burn less fat doing low intensity cardio on a diet with more carbs. When the intensity of your cardio is higher, it burns through your glycogen stores so you can burn fat. And this is most easily done on an empty stomach upon waking.

So to OP, it your choice what KIND of cardio to do. But you will not burn muscle doing cardio in a fasted state. The only way the would happen is if you were sprinting while on a low carb diet.


I like low intensity cardio in the morning and on my off days, and after i workout i do HIIT cardio. Best of both worlds.

AFTazz06
06-04-09, 11:44 pm
So, in general, cardio does not burn muscle? Thanks.

It will if your running high speed on it. The key to preserve muscle is low intensity, walking at a decent pace. Basically if your heavily sweating and out of breathe your doing way too much. Keep this in mind, once your out of breathe your body will start to find another source of energy due to all the failing oxygen, so after trying to burn fat for fuel at the begining of the cardio session it moves on to the next best thing, Muscle.

jeff00z28
06-05-09, 2:16 am
would it matter if i ate a pack of tuna in the morning (no carbs)? I am completley slammed with hunger when i wake up

violator
06-05-09, 4:51 am
would it matter if i ate a pack of tuna in the morning (no carbs)? I am completley slammed with hunger when i wake up

id rather do a light, carb free shake....and then sip on EAA stack while ur on the dreadmill...

Blckdragun
06-05-09, 11:30 am
Doing 20 to 30 mins of any cardio when you first wake up is a great way to lose body fat fast, anytime of year. The reason for this is simple. When you do cardio during the day you are burning calories and carbs you have eaten during that day. But when you do it first thing in the morning your body has no calories or carbs to burn (as you have been sleeping for the last 6-8 hours), so it goes straight for bodyfat. As mentioned earlier in this thread if you are worried about burning muscle take amino's right before you head out.

newbreed
06-05-09, 10:52 pm
Doing 20 to 30 mins of any cardio when you first wake up is a great way to lose body fat fast, anytime of year. The reason for this is simple. When you do cardio during the day you are burning calories and carbs you have eaten during that day. But when you do it first thing in the morning your body has no calories or carbs to burn (as you have been sleeping for the last 6-8 hours), so it goes straight for bodyfat. As mentioned earlier in this thread if you are worried about burning muscle take amino's right before you head out.

Agreed. I just take Amino Acids before I do any cardio

t_mh
06-06-09, 1:12 am
What about the aminos in the pak? Will those suffice?

trady1990
06-21-09, 12:09 pm
Man I live for cardio, I go up to the track at my old high school and do 5-400's, 10-200's, 20-100's. each under 56, 25, 12. It kills but in the end its worth it. I know low intensity keeps muscle, but if you lift hard with low reps do your sprints all muscles go to fast twitch with makes you faster!

mark
06-22-09, 5:55 am
Cardiac work, as defined as keeping your HR between 120-140bpm, for 30-45mins will have positive impacts on muscle recovery, as it will help flush any lactate (aka, lactic acid), pulls oxygen enriched blood into the muscles, and help aide in the recovery of the parasympathetic nervous system.

What source of energy your body uses for various exercises is based primarily on what energy system you are putting the greatest demand on -- the oxidative system uses a different primary energy source than the cardiac which is different than the aerobic energy system.
Time of the day does not truly impact which source the body uses as energy, unless your body does not have sufficeint supplies of the necessary energy system, in which it goes with the next easiest thing to burn, MUSCLE! with some mild fat oxidation as well, but that is a rather moot point.

Sorry, but saying doing cardiac work during the day will not have the same positive impacts on fat loss as doing it first thing in the morning is not correct.

Gainhard
07-31-09, 11:37 pm
When is the best time to do cardio, right before my lift? right after? during a completely different part of the day?

Pizzalamp
08-01-09, 9:41 am
When is the best time to do cardio, right before my lift? right after? during a completely different part of the day?

ive seen the best results doing it right when i wake up w/out any food before

but doing it right after your workout is good as well.

strivin for more
08-01-09, 8:54 pm
ive seen the best results doing it right when i wake up w/out any food before

but doing it right after your workout is good as well.

these are also the two times id do it. mainly post workout.

BubbyLight
08-02-09, 11:20 am
i feel like a champion when i do it in the AM(or whenever i may wake up) but def before my first meal. and i just push myself so much harder cause im looking forward to some oats and egg whites once im done

ronnie
08-02-09, 11:24 am
in regards to doing cardio after lifting, what about post workout supplements or meal? do you eat and take your supps immediatly before cardio or after? just supps before cardio, meal after? i always feel it is very important to fill my body with supps and food very soon after lifting weights.

Gainhard
08-04-09, 12:07 am
yeah, if i don't get my BCAAs and Protein right after i lift, will that take away form my recovery? and will the BCAAs and protein that i take go more to recovery from my cardio, or to my lift?

Go Away
10-01-09, 7:58 pm
been doing a.m. cardio as much as I can fit it in my schedule... then workouts in the evening after work. 3-5 times a week I throw 30 min of cardio in after my workout...

my concern has to do with timing.

if I do cardio in the morning is it optimally adventagous to make sure that same day I have postworkout cardio?

my main goal is to shed some body fat.

if I know Ima be able to fit some morning cardio into my schedule should I make sure to include afternoon cardio as well? for example, stay away from morning cardio on leg days since I don't follo leg workouts with cardio...

I know cardio in general is good for you, I'm just wondering from a scientific standpoint if one plan is better than the other...

I don't wanna sacrifice some shut eye at the wrong time if I can help it. and I make sure I get six hours on a.m. cardio days....

cardio sucks.

holla back

C.Coronato
10-02-09, 12:11 pm
Yo brother.

Cardio in the AM is crucial, especially in the time of fat loss. When you do it in the AM you are going at it on an empty stomach and theoretically working to burn just the fat on you, instead of working off the food in your body.

If you can do all AM cardio that would be your best bet.

VinceRkg
10-02-09, 1:44 pm
GA, I am in the same as you are now. I was wondering that also, thanks for the post.

So its still good to put in some cardio after your workout, and if so how long after? Should you workout, drink your protein, have your meal, than a couple hours later get in your cardio? Thanks again

Go Away
10-18-09, 2:12 pm
vince, you wouldnt want to do that if youre trying to take advantage of an elevated heartrate...
you work out and have your heartrate high, you do cardio and burn fat while your heartrate is high.
i think it takes about 45 minutes of elevated heartrate to burn fat... so the first 45 min you run without having lifted you arent burning fat. if you lift for 45-60 minutes and get your cardio going immediately afterwards you are burning fat while doing cardio...

SailinScotty
10-18-09, 6:57 pm
Great replys on the topic. My only question is how long should you wait to lift after doing A.M. cardio?

Beast Mode
10-27-09, 12:42 am
I just started adding some HIIT into my workouts. I did it to cut some body fat. I'm only doing it 3 days a week. There is no way I could do it then go squat! By the time I'm done with my 20 min section of HIIT my legs are done for! I say only after weight training.

MikeMcM
11-03-09, 8:16 pm
Just wonderin how much cardio you guys do daily? Or weekly, etc.

I try to do at least 20 mins or so a day, is that sufficient? should it be more? just curious because i hate doing it. Is it as important as i have heard it is? What are the most beneficial cardio exercises, Eliptical? Treadmill? Bike?

Just Curious, Thanks Guys!

strivin for more
11-03-09, 9:35 pm
it would really all depend on your goals. if youre bulking, minimal cardio is necessary. and obviously if youre cutting more is necessary. i usually take my off days (sat and sun) and if im feeling a lil rowdy or energetic or bored or whatever ill do a session. but im currently trying to gain weight, so i dont do it regularly with training.

and as far as what kinds, i dont mind switching it up. eliptical, stairmaster, incline treadmill, anything thatll keep my heart rate up around 140 for a good 30 minutes at a time. theres also some HIIT style cardio training involving sprint periods and "recoup" periods. its all really personal preference and what your goals are. hope this helped!

MikeMcM
11-03-09, 11:28 pm
Yeah it did any information helps man! As for my goals i am just trying to put on as much lean mass as possible, wanna be big, and get rid of that lower stomach fat, its not much but i want it gone, and i was told do cardio, and i do i just didnt knw if i was doing enough or what, but im pretty pumped to try the heart rate thing for 30 mins, thanks bro!

Maccabee
11-03-09, 11:31 pm
Off Season: 4-5 times a week for 20 minutes
In Season: I start off the same way as off season but I change the diet. Once I stop seeing results I add 5-10 more mins to the cardio sessions.

Littlefry
11-04-09, 12:15 am
Offseason I do little to no cardio. When cutting it really depend on what stage Im in and how Im looking at that point.

mritter3
11-04-09, 10:45 am
depends if i am on a bulk or not...if i am than little to no cardio...maybe hit the heavy bag 2x per week, if i am not on a bulk then it is like 20 mins per day....every day.

live2lift
11-04-09, 2:26 pm
Just wonderin how much cardio you guys do daily? Or weekly, etc.

I try to do at least 20 mins or so a day, is that sufficient? should it be more? just curious because i hate doing it. Is it as important as i have heard it is? What are the most beneficial cardio exercises, Eliptical? Treadmill? Bike?

Just Curious, Thanks Guys!

This point is overlooked so far on this thread. The most beneficial form of cardio...weight training. Remember, our bodies are made up of lean mass and fat mass. Increase your lean mass and you will naturally decrease your fat mass. As for other forms of cardio, the best cardio is the one that you can do consistently...that is the most important thing.

Peace

MikeMcM
11-04-09, 5:35 pm
Thanks for the info! Good article thanks man

D-NUTZ
12-10-09, 9:51 pm
My lifting goes as such.

M-Legs
T-Chest/Bis
TH-Back
F-Shoulders/Tris

I do HIIT on tuesdays and run sprints on fridays. Will this affect my gains as far as strength and muscle size goes? Thanks Animals.

Young&Hungry
12-10-09, 9:59 pm
My lifting goes as such.

M-Legs
T-Chest/Bis
TH-Back
F-Shoulders/Tris

I do HIIT on tuesdays and run sprints on fridays. Will this affect my gains as far as strength and muscle size goes? Thanks Animals.

It will only help. I do some form of conditioning 5-6 days a week, and have gained weight and gotten stronger in the process. Cardio is so underrated in strength training.

Pizzalamp
12-10-09, 10:03 pm
It will only help. I do some form of conditioning 5-6 days a week, and have gained weight and gotten stronger in the process. Cardio is so underrated in strength training.
amen

D-NUTZ
12-10-09, 10:05 pm
Thanks brothers! I figured 2 days a week wont hurt but just needed reassured.

Pizzalamp
12-10-09, 10:06 pm
Thanks brothers! I figured 2 days a week wont hurt but just needed reassured.
i do 4-5 days a week and ive had no negative issues
just make sure u r getting enough rest and enough food

D-NUTZ
12-10-09, 10:09 pm
Oh im getting plenty of food and rest haha. Thanks again.

LayzieBone085
12-10-09, 10:12 pm
Notch down the HIIT and do some low intensity, do 10 intervals max 1x a week, and focus on more rest.

Seeing you do HIIT 2x a week and legs once a week, your legs are taking a beating for recovery.

D-NUTZ
12-10-09, 10:13 pm
Notch down the HIIT and do some low intensity, do 10 intervals max 1x a week, and focus on more rest.

Seeing you do HIIT 2x a week and legs once a week, your legs are taking a beating for recovery.

I do hiit once a week. Then some short sprints the other day.

LayzieBone085
12-10-09, 11:04 pm
I do hiit once a week. Then some short sprints the other day.

Sprints = High Intensity

Also doing HIIT following Legs is not a very bright idea.. Again.. killing recovery for your legs. Just my 2 cents. Move it away or do low intensity the next day.

D-NUTZ
12-10-09, 11:08 pm
Figured thats what you meant. Brain fart haha.

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 3:34 pm
How much cardio in your opinion is too much and how much is enoughm, im talking while trying to gain muscle?

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 5:09 pm
30 mintues... I dont think you need more.

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 5:25 pm
30 mintues... I dont think you need more.

Can you do it every day?

BionicMasterPiece
01-31-10, 6:04 pm
Can you do it every day?

yepp

mcbeast
01-31-10, 6:25 pm
30 Minutes of cardio a day while trying to bulk? Nonsense! Get in some GPP 3-4 times a week and it will help keep your bodyfat levels at bay.If anything 1-2 20-30 mins sessions a week to work up a good sweat.

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 6:43 pm
endorphins... If i remeber correctly Max- angle was trying to cut?

mcbeast
01-31-10, 6:52 pm
Oh? Well "talking while trying to gain muscle?" Hence I figured he was bulking. But Max, a good question for ya, your 16 why the heck are you cutting? (If you are)

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 7:40 pm
30 Minutes of cardio a day while trying to bulk? Nonsense! Get in some GPP 3-4 times a week and it will help keep your bodyfat levels at bay.If anything 1-2 20-30 mins sessions a week to work up a good sweat.


GPP?

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 7:41 pm
endorphins... If i remeber correctly Max- angle was trying to cut?


I'm gonna try to work myself up to a clean bulk and keep it at a acceptable caloric intake and keep it there so i lean out over time

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 9:15 pm
I'm gonna try to work myself up to a clean bulk and keep it at a acceptable caloric intake and keep it there so i lean out over time

ahhh I see.

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 9:44 pm
ahhh I see.

I think as long as i don't go all out balls to the walls cardio then i sould be fine, as long as i do it on off days and right after workouts

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 9:56 pm
I think as long as i don't go all out balls to the walls cardio then i sould be fine, as long as i do it on off days and right after workouts

ya dont go over board and do light cardio after your workouts and your good.

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 10:07 pm
ya dont go over board and do light cardio after your workouts and your good.


What woul you consider light? Like 10-20min?

D-NUTZ
01-31-10, 10:10 pm
I do 10-15 minutes on tredmill with like a 8 incline and 3.0-3.5 speed. I do this 2-3 times a week (unfaithfully LOL!) I really need to stay dedicated with the cardio.

Just do a light walk with a incline for no more than 15 or so minutes Post-workout 2-4 days a week depending on your goals and you should be golden.

Cstlfx
01-31-10, 10:14 pm
GPP?

General Physical Preparedness. Its good stuff, google it and read up. If you dont do it now, it can come in handy during a bulk.

Max-Angle
01-31-10, 10:23 pm
General Physical Preparedness. Its good stuff, google it and read up. If you dont do it now, it can come in handy during a bulk.

Oh i've heard of that before but never heard it called that, for the farmers walk version can i do that in my basement and how would you write that in a journey book rep wise?

Deathride
02-01-10, 7:49 am
My cardio is simply walking to and from work! It needs to be done, it will happen five times a week and it take 15-20 minutes up (and obviously down!) a steep hill! No sense in complicating issues....find somewhere you NEED to walk and walk it! Have found i've had to step up my calories a little to keep my energy high for my workouts after arriving home, but it feels like its working!

Max-Angle
02-01-10, 5:05 pm
My cardio is simply walking to and from work! It needs to be done, it will happen five times a week and it take 15-20 minutes up (and obviously down!) a steep hill! No sense in complicating issues....find somewhere you NEED to walk and walk it! Have found i've had to step up my calories a little to keep my energy high for my workouts after arriving home, but it feels like its working!

I have the elliptical so its all good man but thanks, i used to walk every day up to 10 miles a day before i got serious into bulking, im kinda in the middle of nowhere where my house resides so everywhere i need to go is like 8 miles away