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LegendKillerJosh
02-13-08, 11:03 pm
I've decided I want to start a thread about the life. Not my life, because I don't think anyone on the forvm wants to read about and/or cares about my life. But THIS life, the part everyone on this forvm shares. Our unexplainable desire to make ourselves bigger, and stronger. Shit, I think I just found an explanation for our "unexplainable" lifestyle - to make ourselves stronger. I know I haven't been lifting for all of my life, and I know I haven't even been alive very long, but what I've extracted so far already amazes me, and it is nearly uncomprehensible as to how much more I can possibly derive.

Bodybuilding/Powerlifting/Strongman - whatever it is you do that you use weight training to improve on, all have something in common. Lifting is only a part of it. Our minds are the strongest muscle we have, and it can be your best friend or worst enemy. Lifting to make your muscles strong is a good activity for your body, but what about everything else that comes with it?

I'm talking about the learning experience. Bigger muscles are a positive, but muscles won't get most of us, save for the actual pro's, anywhere at all. What will get you further in life is developing the "seige" mentality. Learning to conquer by attacking. Learning to make a plan of attack, and a path to execute. Today's lesson should be obvious by now. I think subconsciously we are all so dedicated because we know how it is helping us both in the gym and out.

LegendKillerJosh
02-14-08, 6:23 pm
There is something else that life and the iron game share. They are both 2 way streets. You get out what you put in. If you half-ass your workouts, you get half-ass results. Same goes with anything else in life. Nobody got a degree from Harvard without studying. Nobody gets promotions without working hard. None of the great champions got to where they were by accident. None of the great champions ever complained about not having time to do what they had to. If you have something to do, there are no excuses. The time is there, you just have to take advantage of it.

mjsef88
02-14-08, 6:59 pm
...and all this time i thought you were just a powerlifting butcher. ha.

1.) i belive in balance. I believe, physique wise, that one must be balanced (im not necessarily talking about symmetry). I believe that THE way to a balanced physique is to walk in many worlds, so to say. That is why I power-bodybuild. I use heavy movements to build mass, and "bodybuilding" moves to define the muscle. I believe that strongman lifts are fantastic, and i wish i had the means to train with that sort of equiptment (i do improvise with stumps/cement bags/what have you).

1A.) I also believe in the balance of body and mind. it's a paradox. You need your body to house your mind, but your mind controls your body. What does that say about a person who is built like a brick shithouse but is as dumb as a bull. It's like i said, next time your bored, pick up a book on philosophy, history, physics (yes, borders has books on physics) and LEARN. This ties in to your idea of a 2 way street. If you bust your ass mentally, who knows when a random tidbit of information will come in handy. It may get you noticed, by your boss or professor, your friends, or even that girl you may be trying to impress. I'm constantly taken back by the phrase "jack of all trades but master of none". I'd rather be "jack", i'd rather have experience in life and ALL it has to offer, rather than just one single thing.

This thread is a great idea, i hope it builds steam, and if you don't mind, i'd love to throw down more ideas and personal philosophys.

LegendKillerJosh
02-14-08, 7:47 pm
This thread is a great idea, i hope it builds steam, and if you don't mind, i'd love to throw down more ideas and personal philosophys.

Please add all that you want, I encourage everyone.

LegendKillerJosh
02-14-08, 7:50 pm
1A.) If you bust your ass mentally, who knows when a random tidbit of information will come in handy. It may get you noticed, by your boss or professor, your friends, or even that girl you may be trying to impress.

I don't care how much information I know, but how much I can learn. I seek a higher IQ. Not how much I can remember, but my ability to solve problems.

mjsef88
02-14-08, 8:34 pm
I don't care how much information I know, but how much I can learn. I seek a higher IQ. Not how much I can remember, but my ability to solve problems.

but you see those two go hand in hand. How can you solve the problem if you forget the steps to do it? I guess thats why im attracted to facts. My old man constantly said, from the time i could crawl, to now, that I won't die happy unless i know everything about everything. I have a brain for picking up random things. I may not be able to explain last weeks algebra class to you, but I can tell you anything you want to know about Sun Tzu's "the art of war"....hell, i even have the book that Napoleon wrote, giving his thoughts and ideas on the origional book. Or....like we all found out in Rob's basement at the last ABC event, What chemicals dispose of the human body. I guess what i'm trying to say, is take a second look at your statement "I don't care how much information I know, but how much I can learn."

...like they say, you need to learn to crawl before you learn to run.

(and maybe i completely misconstrued what you were saying, but the message can apply to anyone)

LegendKillerJosh
02-14-08, 10:33 pm
but you see those two go hand in hand. How can you solve the problem if you forget the steps to do it? I guess thats why im attracted to facts. My old man constantly said, from the time i could crawl, to now, that I won't die happy unless i know everything about everything. I have a brain for picking up random things. I may not be able to explain last weeks algebra class to you, but I can tell you anything you want to know about Sun Tzu's "the art of war"....hell, i even have the book that Napoleon wrote, giving his thoughts and ideas on the origional book. Or....like we all found out in Rob's basement at the last ABC event, What chemicals dispose of the human body. I guess what i'm trying to say, is take a second look at your statement "I don't care how much information I know, but how much I can learn."

...like they say, you need to learn to crawl before you learn to run.

(and maybe i completely misconstrued what you were saying, but the message can apply to anyone)

Well yes and no. I actually do care about the information I already know, but my concern is how much more I can learn. My grandpa would say to me "you learn something new everyday...and still die stupid." That may or may not be true depending on how you interpret that. Sure we learn a lot of dumb things in school we may never need to know, but as long as we are expanding our minds it is worth it. As long as we are staying opening and learning to absorb that is far more important. I like your thinking process so far, you share with me a desire to improve yourself everyday, both by lifting and learning, and that is the point of this thread, so congratulations for already understanding that brother.

LegendKillerJosh
02-15-08, 8:34 pm
It's Friday night and I'm watching the Red Wings getting smoked. But I'm not complaining about how much sacrificing I'm doing by not going out and partying. I don't even have that in me anymore. When I was 17 I'd get smashed on Friday night and be in the gym Saturday at 10am doing legs, then going to work then getting smashed all over again.

Do I even miss those crazy nights in high school? Honestly the answer is yes. Back then lifting was just something fun for me to challenge myself with, but I still had all my buddies to unwind with. Now there are all gone to various parts of the country for school. Now I have only a couple friends left, and neither of them drink at all. One of them is my training partner who will be in the parking lot at Powerhouse tomorrow morning at 9:45 for legs.

Is not partying a sacrifice? To me, not anymore. It would have been a few years ago, but those were different times. The only complaint I have now is the way the iron game has completely taken me over. I start freaking out at 2.5 hours after my last meal that I have to eat soon or I will immediately lose all my muscle. I can't relax anymore. As soon as my brother starts telling me where the party is this weekend I start worrying I might somehow end up there.

I no longer know where this post is even going. I don't want to redo the already-been-done "Life on a Friday Night Thread." I began thinking I had a point, but maybe I just wanted to vent some things.

This is my new way of "partying." Sitting in a chair watching TV and eating whenever I feel like is what makes me happy now. In fact, I gotta go prepare some food. Sorry to those who were expecting to get something useful out of this post, but feel free to post your own feelings, that is the point I said earlier didn't exist.

blueIMlifter
02-16-08, 12:43 pm
It's Friday night and I'm watching the Red Wings getting smoked. But I'm not complaining about how much sacrificing I'm doing by not going out and partying. I don't even have that in me anymore. When I was 17 I'd get smashed on Friday night and be in the gym Saturday at 10am doing legs, then going to work then getting smashed all over again.

Do I even miss those crazy nights in high school? Honestly the answer is yes. Back then lifting was just something fun for me to challenge myself with, but I still had all my buddies to unwind with. Now there are all gone to various parts of the country for school. Now I have only a couple friends left, and neither of them drink at all. One of them is my training partner who will be in the parking lot at Powerhouse tomorrow morning at 9:45 for legs.

Is not partying a sacrifice? To me, not anymore. It would have been a few years ago, but those were different times. The only complaint I have now is the way the iron game has completely taken me over. I start freaking out at 2.5 hours after my last meal that I have to eat soon or I will immediately lose all my muscle. I can't relax anymore. As soon as my brother starts telling me where the party is this weekend I start worrying I might somehow end up there.

I no longer know where this post is even going. I don't want to redo the already-been-done "Life on a Friday Night Thread." I began thinking I had a point, but maybe I just wanted to vent some things.

This is my new way of "partying." Sitting in a chair watching TV and eating whenever I feel like is what makes me happy now. In fact, I gotta go prepare some food. Sorry to those who were expecting to get something useful out of this post, but feel free to post your own feelings, that is the point I said earlier didn't exist.

bro, this is exactly how i feel about the weekends. hell about a year ago this time i was down in florida getting tanked every day for a week straight. then i realized WHAT THE FUCK WAS I DOING...it was fun but still i felt like a piece of shit and when i got back i started eating seriously, lifting insanely, and not partying. almost 1 year latet here i am not partying or doing any of that stupid shit anymore. do i miss it....sometimes because like you said you hang out with all of your friends all the time. now i would just prefer to go to bed at 11:30 because my ass has cardio at 8 AM. my freshman year i thought nobody thought like this so i eventually gave into the partying scene and now i get on here and realize how many other ppl there are who think like i do that hey maybe partying isnt all its cracked up to be and u can do something else with your life.
haha instead of sittin home we should organize something for friday nights or something where we can hit some weights or something. or hang out or some random shit like that. its funny because as i read your post i was thinking god damn its like he is reading my mind.

i also feel you on the 2.5/3 hour thing on the food. if it gets up to 3 hours without food i can feel myself getting cranky and pissed off. this lifestyle has overtaken me but hey i chose it so im not complaining either.

LegendKillerJosh
02-16-08, 11:42 pm
bro, this is exactly how i feel about the weekends. hell about a year ago this time i was down in florida getting tanked every day for a week straight. then i realized WHAT THE FUCK WAS I DOING...it was fun but still i felt like a piece of shit and when i got back i started eating seriously, lifting insanely, and not partying. almost 1 year latet here i am not partying or doing any of that stupid shit anymore. do i miss it....sometimes because like you said you hang out with all of your friends all the time. now i would just prefer to go to bed at 11:30 because my ass has cardio at 8 AM. my freshman year i thought nobody thought like this so i eventually gave into the partying scene and now i get on here and realize how many other ppl there are who think like i do that hey maybe partying isnt all its cracked up to be and u can do something else with your life.
haha instead of sittin home we should organize something for friday nights or something where we can hit some weights or something. or hang out or some random shit like that. its funny because as i read your post i was thinking god damn its like he is reading my mind.

i also feel you on the 2.5/3 hour thing on the food. if it gets up to 3 hours without food i can feel myself getting cranky and pissed off. this lifestyle has overtaken me but hey i chose it so im not complaining either.

I know that is the way most if not all on the forvm feel. Tonight was cool though, me and my friends just got some food and watched the NBA stuff, then went to shoot some pool at the hall. Not a bad night, taking in a weight gainer now before bed.

Another thing I'll add about the partying lifestyle is that it really does make you do dumb things. I'll admit in the past I've done stupid shit and got behind the wheel and twice actually hit something in my car. I'm lucky I never got arrested, or even more importantly hurt anybody. Now I just really don't even want to be around people like that anymore, so if I have to stay home to avoid that, so be it, I don't even feel like I'm missing out anymore.

LegendKillerJosh
02-18-08, 10:13 pm
I thought of another lesson THIS life has taught me, and it's now the basis of my life. Timing. And not just present time, but planning ahead.

I know everyone here goes to bed at night, with an alarm set at a very specific time. And you already have half your breakfast stored in the fridge, you just gotta make the oats fresh. Let's see, class starts at 10, I need to leave for class at 930, it takes 15 means to cook the rest of breakfast, 15 minutes to eat it, 10 minutes to poop and brush the teeth. I need to wake up at 850, so I need to be asleep by 1220 to get my 8.5 hours. It's how I think, and I'm sure everybody else does this too.

It's a beatiful lesson. When we are on our death beds, we don't want to think of all the lost time that we want back. We want to go out knowing we didn't waste a minute that could've been spent reaching that goal.

Death seems so far away, and it's one thing that we can't plan the exact minute of it's occurence. So you may as well be ready at any time, because "a man who lives his life to the fullest is prepared to die at any time."

Big E46&2
03-04-08, 7:11 pm
I know exactly what you guys mean. To be honest i think its just the friends thing that bothers me. Its weird not having everyone around all the time. I mean you move on and make new friends but... it just dosnt seem to be the same

LegendKillerJosh
04-28-08, 12:17 pm
"I consider bodybuilding philosophical, very much so.
I question my existence.
Why do I exist? Where am I going?
I've always had this craving for more.
I compare this to Jonathan Livingtons seagull. The seagull wanted to do something different, than the normal, everyday thing.
Which is what it's suppose to do, and they urge it to do.
It wanted to expand and to wander, to do something unique, and artistic.
And not only in the sense for expanding his artistic ability,
but in the sense of expanding his awareness.
To me, it's the same type of thing I associate with my bodybuilding.
So, naturally, the dedication I have for the sport is very intense.
I'll give anything, I'll give total commitment to do it.
Because I must do it to the best, or better than I can possibly do it to my ability.
That's what it's all about tomorrow night on stage.
All year long I've been doing this,
and now, the final day is here, to show what I've done."

I took this quote from someone you all know - Tom Platz. He said this the night before the Mr. Olympia contest in an interview for the film "Arnold Schwarzenegger - The Comeback."

This is one of my favorite quotes. We all question not only why are we here, but we we do here as well. How did humans really get here? Was it creation? Evolution? Whatever you believe in - doesn't really matter that much, atleast that's the way I feel. I think what you do while you're here is the important part. We all here at the forum know what we are here for, we love to lift. We love to push ourselves beyond the limits we thought existed. We all have a craving to do something extraordinary, and most of us use lifting to accomplish that.

Think about what Arnold did. He used bodybuilding to launch himself into that upper stratosphere of life to do whatever he wanted to do, and did it perfectly. I'm sure everyone is aware here he is now the Governor of one of the biggest states in our country.

With everything you do, you should question why you do it. Is it worth it? Like Mr. Platz said in the above quote, I will give anything, total commitment to do it. He was talking strictly about bodybuilding, but it all comes back to that other phrase which is that anything worth doing is worth doing well. How many times have you gone to class and just daydreamed? How many times did you go to work and just go through the motions all day? Don't be average, be extraordinary.

LegendKillerJosh
05-13-10, 9:58 pm
I miss this thread and want to resurrect it. The point of this thread was for me to explain the important lessons weightlifting has taught me outside of the gym.

Please anyone else feel free to post what you have learned from your gym experiences right here.

korinek00
05-15-10, 12:05 am
About the partying. I think a lot of highschool kids go through this stage. I know I did. Wheres the next party at? How smashed am I gonna get? Am I gonna get some pussy? Then it dawned on me how lame this existence was. The same parties, with the same people, with the same shitty feeling in the morning. Rinse and repeat. Surely there had to be something better, right?

Then I came across the Navy SEALs. I remember thinking, damn, wouldn't that be something? And it stuck with me. I came at a crossroads. I could choose path: (A) keep working a dead end job and getting hammered at every party I could find (B) go to some university and land some job or (C) become a Navy SEAL.

I chose (C) best choice of my life so far. It's all about challenging yourself, physically and mentally. This week is highschool graduation and I keep getting asked to come out to party and celebrate, which involves drinking. To me it's an easy no. No second thoughts about it. I can't risk getting caught with it let alone the effect on my training. Then I get called "pussy" and what not for not coming. Doesn't bother me, actually it made me laugh. Here I am going places with my life and these people have the nerve call me a pussy for not drinking. These people will continue to be stuck in the same rut all through college where they will settle for a mediocre job and a mediocre existence.

Unless they find that fire...

Each one of us has that fire in us. It's just a matter of getting that flame lit. When your 80 years old and looking back at your life, are you going to have regrets? If the answer is yes then you better fuckin get busy. Your most going to regret the things you didn't do rather than the things you did. Do not and I repeat do not become stagnate. Stagnation, physically, mentally, and emotionally is a killer. Go learn how to play an instrument, learn a second language, try something you've never tried before, open yourself to new things, do something.

I don't care if your dream is to be an artist, a teacher, an astronaut, or a plumber. Whatever your dream is, get the fuck up and go do it. When your chasing your dream your living life and life is meant to be lived. We each know what we want, but so few will actually go and get it. I'll be the first one to tell you, when a man's got a dream and lives accordingly, he is one happy motherfucker and shit am I happy.

I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm happy. How many people can say that without lying to themselves? Your new car you bought isn't going to make you happy. Your new clothes make you look pretty. Your new phone is cool, but these things will not bring you happiness. It may bring you bliss, but not true happiness. True happiness comes from following your dreams and that my friends, in my opinion, is what it's all about. Finding what makes you tick. For some bodybuilding, maybe another a firefighter, but if you aren't going after whatever it is that you want, if your fucking making excuses, if your fucking settling, you will regret it. Yeah I have my good and bad days just like everyone else, but I can honestly say I'm a happy mofo because I'm living my dream.

"Row, row, row your boat, merrily, merrily, etc. life is but a dream."

Find that dream and go live it.

Cheers to going and getting what you want.

thebeastgaby
05-15-10, 11:27 am
that fire is right.

the main lesson ive learned is how much more i care about my life and me.how im more goal established, and a motor pushing foward.weighttraining gave me a fire again,something i lost for the last 10 yrs and couldnt find.i had settled for that meduim life, that basiclly it was this blahhhhh of life, makes me yawn thinking of it,lol.
now that fire, well that fire just recently promoted me at work, i feel better,i think im personally a better person, and im just so motivated and alive.

thats that fire!

LegendKillerJosh
05-15-10, 9:42 pm
that fire is right.

the main lesson ive learned is how much more i care about my life and me.how im more goal established, and a motor pushing foward.weighttraining gave me a fire again,something i lost for the last 10 yrs and couldnt find.i had settled for that meduim life, that basiclly it was this blahhhhh of life, makes me yawn thinking of it,lol.
now that fire, well that fire just recently promoted me at work, i feel better,i think im personally a better person, and im just so motivated and alive.

thats that fire!

Yeah brother. To me, being Animal means never settling. A lot of people are content to what they have. I don't know if it is because they truely are happy with what they've been delt, or if they are just too lazy to go get more. I know 1 thing that makes me Animal - even if I one day bench 2000 pounds, I will strive to bench 2001. To me, weight training teaches us more outside of the gym. Never settle, never give up, always be moving forward, and do what most people think is impossible.

LegendKillerJosh
05-20-10, 11:37 am
Another thing weight lifting has taught me - balance. I'm not talking about being able to walk on a tightrope, either. I mean learning when to make sacrifices, and when to indulge. I remember when I first started lifting I wanted to train everyday, I wanted to live in the gym. Obviously I learned the hard way what overtraining was and I was a beanpole. I also use to read shit in health magazines that made me think that to be a bodybuilder I could eat only tuna, egg whites, and spinach 6 times a day or I would get fat. HAHA, if I could've saw through that bullshit I'd be even bigger and stronger than I am today. I know most people can't afford to binge on fatty, sugary foods all day with no other nutritional value and expect to be ripped. But you don't have to eat super clean either.

I use to also never party or drink or have cheat meals. Again, balance is key here. A couple beers every once in a while won't hurt, and in fact is heart healthy and might not hinder your gains. But getting hammered every weekend definitely will. Just be smart about things.

Balance. It's important. If you try to be a machine that goes to bed at 8, wakes up at 4, trains twice a day, eats a super clean diet, never goes out with friends, etc...you will probably drive yourself crazy and binge way worse then if you just let yourself relax every once in a while.

Beowulf
05-20-10, 11:43 am
I miss this thread and want to resurrect it. The point of this thread was for me to explain the important lessons weightlifting has taught me outside of the gym.

Please anyone else feel free to post what you have learned from your gym experiences right here.

I couldn't agree more. But I believe the process is more dialectical. The simple act of lifting can really teach us valuable lessons, lessons we take outside the gym. But the reverse is true as well--that what we learn in the outside world, we bring to bear in the gym. In the end, I believe the iron and our pursuit of it represents a kind of ethics, one that can inform our lives in totality.

RENFRO
05-20-10, 12:13 pm
I was talking with a friend last night about this...I've come to realize that nobody really knows who I am until they've been in a gym with me or picked my mind about my training and philosophies. The iron is a constant, like gravity, 100lbs. will be 100lbs. no matter what shit is going on in my life it will always shoot me straight (This has been spoken about by many other animals in the forvm).

You want extreme results? Then take extreme measures...or start being happy with being mediocre. My mind is my greatest weapon and I fully believe Kai Greene when he said, "If you believe you can't do something...then you can't."

I also believed the mind paired with a passionate heart is the most brutal weapon a man can wage in this game called life. Whatever it is that lights your soul on fire, be it family (see my sig), friends, a certain someone, your own goals, etc...that mindset is what propelled me to attaining my college degree and becoming a military officer.

So many fake people smashed into me along the way, and at first I admit it slowed me down and confused me...Why was I avoiding the partying and standard college scene? Questioning myself like that actually pushed me even more and made me realize what my goals were...so how did I do it? By turning myself into a fucking living and breathing battering ram.


RENFRO

LegendKillerJosh
05-20-10, 12:15 pm
I was talking with a friend last night about this...I've come to realize that nobody really knows who I am until they've been in a gym with me or picked my mind about my training and philosophies. The iron is a constant, like gravity, 100lbs. will be 100lbs. no matter what shit is going on in my life it will always shoot me straight (This has been spoken about by many other animals in the forvm).

You want extreme results? Then take extreme measures...or start being happy with being mediocre. My mind is my greatest weapon and I fully believe Kai Greene when he said, "If you believe you can't do something...then you can't."

I also believed the mind paired with a passionate heart is the most brutal weapon a man can wage in this game called life. Whatever it is that lights your soul on fire, be it family (see my sig), friends, a certain someone, your own goals, etc...that mindset is what propelled me to attaining my college degree and becoming a military officer.

So many fake people smashed into me along the way, and at first I admit it slowed me down and confused me...Why was I avoiding the partying and standard college scene? Questioning myself like that actually pushed me even more and made me realize what my goals were...so how did I do it? By turning myself into a fucking living and breathing battering ram.


RENFRO

It goes back to this - "Whether you think you can or can't, you're right"

TheGreatWhite
05-20-10, 12:17 pm
I've decided I want to start a thread about the life. Not my life, because I don't think anyone on the forvm wants to read about and/or cares about my life. But THIS life, the part everyone on this forvm shares. Our unexplainable desire to make ourselves bigger, and stronger. Shit, I think I just found an explanation for our "unexplainable" lifestyle - to make ourselves stronger. I know I haven't been lifting for all of my life, and I know I haven't even been alive very long, but what I've extracted so far already amazes me, and it is nearly uncomprehensible as to how much more I can possibly derive.

Bodybuilding/Powerlifting/Strongman - whatever it is you do that you use weight training to improve on, all have something in common. Lifting is only a part of it. Our minds are the strongest muscle we have, and it can be your best friend or worst enemy. Lifting to make your muscles strong is a good activity for your body, but what about everything else that comes with it?

I'm talking about the learning experience. Bigger muscles are a positive, but muscles won't get most of us, save for the actual pro's, anywhere at all. What will get you further in life is developing the "seige" mentality. Learning to conquer by attacking. Learning to make a plan of attack, and a path to execute. Today's lesson should be obvious by now. I think subconsciously we are all so dedicated because we know how it is helping us both in the gym and out.

Heard this, brother....no matter what goals we have for ourselves, we're all in the struggle, the life, together. That's what brings us close. Takes a lot of balls to actually live the life, so hats off to you, and everyone else on the FORVM. Keep putting in that work!

LegendKillerJosh
05-20-10, 12:21 pm
I really hope this thread picks back up. I want to see what other people have learned from the iron OUTSIDE of the gym. Without weightlifting I would probably be in a mental hospital.

RENFRO
05-20-10, 1:51 pm
I really hope this thread picks back up. I want to see what other people have learned from the iron OUTSIDE of the gym. Without weightlifting I would probably be in a mental hospital.

Without weightlifting, I would still be in college, drunk, out of shape, and without a direction in life. Period.

LegendKillerJosh
06-10-10, 5:13 pm
why are you addicted? to the weights? you ever hear this garbage about having a complex or you are not happy with who you are or shit like that?...

I think to some extent it's true. I'm not happy with how I look. I'm not sure I ever will be. I will always want more. And not just from my body. I can never have enough friends, family, money, girls, or enough strength. I will always want more. I want to be better. Yes, I have accepted who I am. I know my calling, what I want to do with my life. But I will never be complacent. I will always want more. If I become rich, or set a bench press record, or start a loving family, I will always want more.

What do you want? What do you need? How far can you go? How much will you sacrifice? These are important questions. It's the Animal way...I pay my dues everyday, do you?