How do you induce ketosis?

[Molasses]

So i've been reading on ketosis and i feel like i know how it works, but how low a diet in carbs does someone have to eat to actually induce ketosis?

Secondly, i read that it takes 48 hours to start being efficiently ketonic, so would a cheat meal once a week(scheduled), or every other week, destroy the body's effiency?

[leafs43]

So i've been reading on ketosis and i feel like i know how it works, but how low a diet in carbs does someone have to eat to actually induce ketosis?

Secondly, i read that it takes 48 hours to start being efficiently ketonic, so would a cheat meal once a week(scheduled), or every other week, destroy the body's effiency?

Not sure about the first question, but I ould assume its really low like 25 grams of carbs at most (but may vary on the previous diet someone had and if it was super high in carbs)

For the 2nd question a lot of keto diets when paralleled with bodybuilding 1 cheat meal a week is highly highly encouraged. It is to carb up for your next weeks workouts so your workouts aren't flat and you don't start burning away the muscle you worked so hard to build.

[Testpolska]

Aye. Not so much a "Cheat" meal but even one day a week to just re-feed the body. It will boost your metabolism, So your body basically goes ok awesome theres alot of food again, I'll start burning it up. Then bam next day back to a very restricted diet but your body will take a while to catch up and notice the abundance of calories is not there. While it does this your burning calories like a mad man and considering your not taking in enough to begin with your body turns to stores(fat hopefully).

At least thats my take on it.

[Fury317]

Wassup, I just started a Keto diet to drop some bf. It takes AT MOST 4 days to get into a state of ketosis where the body runs off ketones. After that youll see amazing results (as youve probably read). As for the number of carbs, it should be kept between 20-35g from what ive learned. And most of these coming from green veggies. Some people need to keep it less than 20 tho, so adjust according to your own body. A carb load is strongly encouraged and you really should do it (unless you got a comp coming up). It keeps the muscles ready for the workout the following week. I recommend carbing up on saturdays after 5 days of high fat/ protien mon-thurs. You can carb up anywhere from 12-48 hours (so you could take it into sunday if you wanted to). Oh and by the way if you start doing this be prepared to feel like shit when the transition is taking place. Im not gonna bullshit around here- my lifts were pretty shitty and i felt tired and horrible. But after 3 days I had more energy than I have ever had. Check Ox's official thread too for more details- he does a keto diet. Hope this helps. PM me if you have more Q's.

[Molasses]

So when i 'carb up' am i going to have to go back through the transition of ketosis and feel like shit every week?

[stumblin54]

So when i 'carb up' am i going to have to go back through the transition of ketosis and feel like shit every week?

No, you'll really only feel like that at the beginning, and it won't last long so stick with it if this is your approach to dieting. The carbs once a week in that meal may or may not give you a little more energy when you train, but they won't make you feel like shit and you won't be going through the transition every week like you did when you were first introduced into it. Be strict about your diet though or else you won't reap all the benefits.

Stumblin

[brandona]

I am currently running about 20g's of carbs a day, save for my cheat meal....I feel good all the time....Ox's has been a huge help on this diet, I have dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks...My cheat MEAL, not day...is what every I want...but I still try to keep it with in reason....

-B

[Fury317]

Ya what stumblin said is correct, once your in a state of ketosis youll stay there. the carb load day is only to replenish your muscles for the following weeks workout. eat some sweet potatoes and oatmeal. youll be fine

[calcaneous]

keto diet is:

65% cals from fat
30% cals protein
5% cals carbs

the carbs all being from veggies to help get in fiber so your pipes dont get blocked up. Make sure you get at least a gram of protein per LBW (lean body weight)

the weekend carb-up/load, you just reverse the %.

65% carbs
30% protein
5% fat

I followed this diet for around 2 months and dropped around 20-30lbs, and had a very nice and detailed 6pack.

[dIdDy]

Aye. Not so much a "Cheat" meal but even one day a week to just re-feed the body. It will boost your metabolism, So your body basically goes ok awesome theres alot of food again, I'll start burning it up. Then bam next day back to a very restricted diet but your body will take a while to catch up and notice the abundance of calories is not there. While it does this your burning calories like a mad man and considering your not taking in enough to begin with your body turns to stores(fat hopefully).

At least thats my take on it.

bingo. i carb up every 4 days and it's working....

[benmatthews90]

does that mean that is you cut on a keto diet, cheating with peanut butter off a spoon isnt really cheating, weak shit i know, but it would be a load off my mind

[Fury317]

haha ya man, a spoon full of NATTY pb is fine. actually it should be 2 or 3 spoonfulls each meal. enjoy! but make sure its natural or else it will have sugar in it and sugar = insulin spike which is what we dont want.

[ironshaolin]

and make sure your natty peanut butter isn't skippy natty. Skippy still has suagar in it, those lying bastards. All they do is take out the partially hydrogenated oils. Crazy richards makes a good one, and master's choice is 9g's protein per serving, and the ingredients are: Peanuts. Thats what I like, one ingredient.

[Molasses]

keto diet is:

65% cals from fat
30% cals protein
5% cals carbs

the carbs all being from veggies to help get in fiber so your pipes dont get blocked up. Make sure you get at least a gram of protein per LBW (lean body weight)

the weekend carb-up/load, you just reverse the %.

65% carbs
30% protein
5% fat

I followed this diet for around 2 months and dropped around 20-30lbs, and had a very nice and detailed 6pack.

So, in an "i like to eat protein more than fat" kinda mind set, couldn't you reverse it so its
65 % protein
30 % fat
5 % carbs

and your body would still induce ketosis?

[bharatoza]

So i've been reading on ketosis and i feel like i know how it works, but how low a diet in carbs does someone have to eat to actually induce ketosis?

Secondly, i read that it takes 48 hours to start being efficiently ketonic, so would a cheat meal once a week(scheduled), or every other week, destroy the body's effiency?

I just read Schwarzenegger's 'Bible'...He mentions something called 'Ketostix'.
They are these strips used by diabetics to measure the amount of ketones in the urine. He says to reduce carbs till the ketostix strip doesn't change color. If it does, increase the carbs.
From what I understand, ketosis isn't good for your system. Are you trying to intentionally 'induce ketosis'? Why?

[Fury317]

So, in an "i like to eat protein more than fat" kinda mind set, couldn't you reverse it so its
65 % protein
30 % fat
5 % carbs

and your body would still induce ketosis?

ya it would because you are still dropping the carbs, but you probably would need more fats. I eat a lot of protien but i still make sure to get the fats in. IMO i wouldnt worry about percentages or all that bs, just make sure you are eating fats and protien with green veggies and vitamins.

I just read Schwarzenegger's 'Bible'...He mentions something called 'Ketostix'.
They are these strips used by diabetics to measure the amount of ketones in the urine. He says to reduce carbs till the ketostix strip doesn't change color. If it does, increase the carbs.
From what I understand, ketosis isn't good for your system. Are you trying to intentionally 'induce ketosis'? Why?

yes there are strips that you can pick up from any drug store. Ketosis isnt bad for someone to do. I mean the optimal diet would be a balanced one- but everyone knows here that we as bodybuilders take in excess amounts of protien and pop pills like its our job, so would you argue that this is not good for you? There are no health risks at all for someone to get into a ketosis diet, except for diabetics, but thats another topic. Cyclic ketosis diets are actually healthy

[simpleguy]

yes there are strips that you can pick up from any drug store. Ketosis isnt bad for someone to do. I mean the optimal diet would be a balanced one- but everyone knows here that we as bodybuilders take in excess amounts of protien and pop pills like its our job, so would you argue that this is not good for you? There are no health risks at all for someone to get into a ketosis diet, except for diabetics, but thats another topic. Cyclic ketosis diets are actually healthy

I quite agree with you bro, except for the last part... they're probably not healthy, or at least unbalanced... though never heard of anyone going in the hospital after such a low-carb diet but these are quite extreme measures... I think that 3-4 pounds is a limit of what you could lose each week... hard to think anything over 4 pounds is fat... myself I never stay on low-carbs more than 3 days in a row, and even those days, low carbs for me mean about 100g, 250g proteins, 50 g fats... it really works well, and I only use it to blast a dead point, a plateau as they call it... usually my diet is 50%carbs, 30-35% proteins, 15-20% fats... works fine for me if I do enough cardio... good luck brothers

[bharatoza]

yes there are strips that you can pick up from any drug store. Ketosis isnt bad for someone to do. I mean the optimal diet would be a balanced one- but everyone knows here that we as bodybuilders take in excess amounts of protien and pop pills like its our job, so would you argue that this is not good for you? There are no health risks at all for someone to get into a ketosis diet, except for diabetics, but thats another topic. Cyclic ketosis diets are actually healthy

I know that ketosis isn't going to lead me to the hospital or the grave. I don't know much about the topic except the little that I have read in Arnold's book. He suggests not to deplete carbs to the point that ketosis sets in.
About 'cyclic ketosis', I wouldn't call it 'healthy' but I know it works if done right.

I quite agree with you bro, except for the last part... they're probably not healthy, or at least unbalanced... though never heard of anyone going in the hospital after such a low-carb diet but these are quite extreme measures... I think that 3-4 pounds is a limit of what you could lose each week... hard to think anything over 4 pounds is fat... myself I never stay on low-carbs more than 3 days in a row, and even those days, low carbs for me mean about 100g, 250g proteins, 50 g fats... it really works well, and I only use it to blast a dead point, a plateau as they call it... usually my diet is 50%carbs, 30-35% proteins, 15-20% fats... works fine for me if I do enough cardio... good luck brothers

I believe you shouldn't lose more than 1-2lbs per week. Maybe the first 1-2 weeks you may lose more but that is usually water weight.

[simpleguy]

I believe you shouldn't lose more than 1-2lbs per week. Maybe the first 1-2 weeks you may lose more but that is usually water weight.

yeah bro, my mistake, where I live we don't use pounds and I sometimes hurry up and make mistakes, I meant 2 pounds... anyway from my experience, on a low carb and calorie diet you'll almost always lose more than 2 pounds per week, no matter what...

[simpleguy]

keto diet is:
65% cals from fat
30% cals protein
5% cals carbs


are you kidding me? 65 % fat... that would be on a 2000 calorie day, 25 gr carbs, 150 gr protein, and about 145 gr of fat... that's a big fat intake, can't believe you actually lost fat on this one... how much from that is saturated fat anyway?

[dIdDy]

are you kidding me? 65 % fat... that would be on a 2000 calorie day, 25 gr carbs, 150 gr protein, and about 145 gr of fat... that's a big fat intake, can't believe you actually lost fat on this one... how much from that is saturated fat anyway?

It "tells" the body that fat is in abundant supply, so the body inturn uses that as the primary energy source dur to the fact it believes that is the most in abundance.

[bharatoza]

anyway from my experience, on a low carb and calorie diet you'll almost always lose more than 2 pounds per week, no matter what...

I am on a zero carb-high fat-high protein diet(As OX suggests). I'm still steadily losing 1-1.5lbs per week.

[jkcole]

Sorry for the post, I tried a search. Looking for some solid info about the keto diet. I am limited to the sites that I can go to on the computer at work. I can get on this one for know. Anyway, I'm looking for.

1) Links to diet info (got some info from Ox's thread)
2) Meal plans and or good foods
3) I would assume that ALL energy drinks should be stopped
4) success stories

I NEED to loose some weight. I trying to get back in the game. Everytime I start getting some good gains from lifting I have injuries that stop me.
FLEX is helping alot.
Long story short I'm unhealthy, trying to get healthy again.

THANKS and GOD BLESS, JOHN

[Giant Killer]

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=8886

[simpleguy]

keto diet... well, it's a hard one... you should loose a lot of weight on it if that's your goal... so, it's omething like this: calories should come from carbs (5%), proteins (30%) and fats(65%)... now, on a sample diet of 2000 calories a day, that would be:
25 gr of carbs
150 gr of proteins
145 gr of fats

carbs should come only from green veggies
proteins, well from all sources but try not relying on 4 shakes a day
fats, try to eat as many of the good ones (flax oil, fish oil)

I don't know what to say about energy drinks, cuz diet sodas for example spike your insulin levels, and you don't want that, cuz it's the opposite effect of this diet plan...
I'd say that you should make adjustments according to your needs, maybe throw some carb-up days here and there (and if you make a cheat meal, have it on a high-carb day)... good luck, shoot me a pm if you got any other questions

[waugie14]

musculardevelopment.com, Dave Palumbo's thread on the forum, or ask anyone there. A lot of Dave disciples there.

[adidamps2]

might wanna give this link a good read over also:
http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=8232

[jkcole]

Thanks for the advice. I'm starting tomorrow. Will post and try to maintain a journey. JOHN

[krazyassmexican]

keto diet... well, it's a hard one... you should loose a lot of weight on it if that's your goal... so, it's omething like this: calories should come from carbs (5%), proteins (30%) and fats(65%)... now, on a sample diet of 2000 calories a day, that would be:
25 gr of carbs
150 gr of proteins
145 gr of fats

carbs should come only from green veggies
proteins, well from all sources but try not relying on 4 shakes a day
fats, try to eat as many of the good ones (flax oil, fish oil)

I don't know what to say about energy drinks, cuz diet sodas for example spike your insulin levels, and you don't want that, cuz it's the opposite effect of this diet plan...
I'd say that you should make adjustments according to your needs, maybe throw some carb-up days here and there (and if you make a cheat meal, have it on a high-carb day)... good luck, shoot me a pm if you got any other questions
if he's gonna be on a ketogenic diet there's no such things as low, medium, high carb days he should be ketogenic everyday the cheat meal comes once a week the last meal of the day the same day of the week everytime

[leafs43]

I couldn't read that entire thread linked just cause it looked like it was turning into a flame fest.

But my take on the keto diet (in my 3rd week of it) is that it does work and it is highly diuretic. You drop a lot of your water weight fast, up to 10 pounds in the first week (i dropped about 5 easy but i was a little higher on the carbs to make sure my body got used to a different eating style)

Keep your fats healthy (i use a lot of flax fish oil and olive oil plus almonds and natty peanut butter for my sources). Get some fiber in your system or you will get constimpated, metamucil or some other fiber supp like that.

Also it is a diet but you can bulk or cut on it, you have to fit in your macros like for cutting go 500 cals a day under maintenance a day for that pound a week.

From what I have found its actually very simple to keep just because you dont feel hungry all the time mainly cause the fats make you feel full. So you almost don't want to cheat. Feels like you are on a bulk diet in terms of stomach fullness.


However you do feel a bit run down by the end of the week before you "carb up" (you are supposed to carb up at least once every week or so for your workouts) Also you get a weird feeling like everything is fuzzy really hard to explain.


So far I have lost close to 10 lbs after 2 weeks (a lot of water weight mind you) and my complexion has improved and already im getting that dry hard look.


edit: Also I you are not supposed to count carbs directly after your workout in your daily totals. So i still take 30g of carbs with my post workout shake and don't add those into my daily totals


edit #2: also it is advisable to supplement with a bit of potassium because if you don't your muscles will start to look flat.

edit #3 editz r phun

[Arbalest]

John, pick a diet, and follow it.

Its that simple. Low carb, low fat, etc... They all work. If you really look at it, they all just vary the ratios of P/C/F's and you're hypocaloric regardless.


Personally, low-carb is a great choice for most people, with a carb-up every few days.

To each his own.. but pick a diet, and stick with it.

[simpleguy]

if he's gonna be on a ketogenic diet there's no such things as low, medium, high carb days he should be ketogenic everyday the cheat meal comes once a week the last meal of the day the same day of the week everytime

yeah bro, after I told him how the keto diet looks like, I thought it'll be good for him to know that he can make up his diet as he likes, but of course you don't stay ketogenic if you have high carb days or moderate, whatever...

[krazyassmexican]

yeah bro, after I told him how the keto diet looks like, I thought it'll be good for him to know that he can make up his diet as he likes, but of course you don't stay ketogenic if you have high carb days or moderate, whatever...

yeah buddy
are u aiming for the ketogenic diet too?
it is fucking great man

[simpleguy]

yeah buddy
are u aiming for the ketogenic diet too?
it is fucking great man

hmm... I've been having really good results by alternating low carb days (something like 25-50 gr of carbs a day) with high and moderate carb days, and of course doing tons of cardio...I'll stick to it as long as it works you know? of course, I respect other cats' diets, cuz everyone should do what it takes for them to achieve their goals...btw, I've been once on a keto diet for some weeks, it was pretty cool, I saw good results, although energy levels were low, but it's all part of the game...

[krazyassmexican]

hmm... I've been having really good results by alternating low carb days (something like 25-50 gr of carbs a day) with high and moderate carb days, and of course doing tons of cardio...I'll stick to it as long as it works you know? of course, I respect other cats' diets, cuz everyone should do what it takes for them to achieve their goals...btw, I've been once on a keto diet for some weeks, it was pretty cool, I saw good results, although energy levels were low, but it's all part of the game...

yeah all bodies are different and what works for me probably dont work for you i understand that and respect that too

the energy levels are low yeah but you get used to it it seems like i am gaining my strenght back in most of my lifts

[ChandlerXJ]

I don't get why some people think carbs are ok on this diet. They're not.

If you have carbs OTHER than those naturally occuring in your fats (nuts) and your greens (~1 cup a day) than your body will not be in ketosis and your body will actually hold ONTO fat.

Krazy, you got it nailed, I know you do. Can't wait to see more pics in a few weeks.

The carbs are meant to shock the body so the progress continues. ONE meal a week. It's not exactly meant to carb up, as your body has now switched off of carbs for energy, it's burning the fat that you've gained.

Carbs are not necessary on this diet, your body isn't even using it to function.

[krazyassmexican]

Carbs are not necessary on this diet, your body isn't even using it to function.

yeah but a cheat meal with carbs a week or every other week wont hurt
is like breaking the routine and rewarding ur ass in my case rite now i will do my best to cheat till 22nd

forgot to mention ur rite about the carbs comming from greens only i've seen that the specialized protein for dieters and the egg pro ultra are a great combo for the ketogenic diet

Ox use almost the same the difference is that he uses the specialized protein for lean mass (it even has more carbs in it)

[ChandlerXJ]

Yeah, those proteins have very little carbs and they're naturally occurring.

Some of these guys are probably pounding real gains after they workout on a their cut haha...


when I bulk, I have to figure out a way to get 1:1:1 Protien:Carbs:Fats using real gains, I'm gonna have to get scientific with scoops and shit... it's gonna be mad science!

[krazyassmexican]

Yeah, those proteins have very little carbs and they're naturally occurring.

Some of these guys are probably pounding real gains after they workout on a their cut haha...


when I bulk, I have to figure out a way to get 1:1:1 Protien:Carbs:Fats using real gains, I'm gonna have to get scientific with scoops and shit... it's gonna be mad science!

yeah since they say u dont cound the carbs post workout they gotta be packing on them in my case my post workout meal is my dinner (whole foods)

and yeah ur absolutly rite whenever i start bulking i am planning to put some unisyn, real gains and torrent on my stack

it will be hard too i know

[ChandlerXJ]

I guess if they're not losing weight then they're doing something wrong...

I remember I took cytogainer and figured out how much protein was in each tablespoon, I got specific from there.

I think when I bulk I'll do that with real gains, then to fill in the extra protein I can use egg whites or some egg pro, or even iso whey or something.

It's not hard, just a pain in the ass. We can do it though, we got this!

[krazyassmexican]

I guess if they're not losing weight then they're doing something wrong...

I remember I took cytogainer and figured out how much protein was in each tablespoon, I got specific from there.

I think when I bulk I'll do that with real gains, then to fill in the extra protein I can use egg whites or some egg pro, or even iso whey or something.

It's not hard, just a pain in the ass. We can do it though, we got this!

hey brother save this link
we'll need it later http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=6559

[jkcole]

Can somebody post a typical meal plan for a day or week? Also what type of carb up meals do you eat? I'm trying to figure out a good plan. I don't work in an office where I can cook or warm things up.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks for the previous post.
John

[krazyassmexican]

Can somebody post a typical meal plan for a day or week? Also what type of carb up meals do you eat? I'm trying to figure out a good plan. I don't work in an office where I can cook or warm things up.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks for the previous post.
John

this is how my diet looks

meal 1: 3 whole eggs and 3 egg whites (hard boiled) plus animal pak
meal 2:specialized protein for dieters plus egg pro ultra with peanut butter and fish oil
meal 3: 8oz chicken breast 2 cups of greens 2liver tabs and a table spoon of olive oil
meal 4: same as meal 2 but instead of fish oil i take a serving of bcaa 2000
meal 5: same as meal 3
meal 6 same as meal 4

i will say it again there no carb up days just a cheat meal a week if u decide
which is gonna be the last meal of ur day

[ChandlerXJ]

yo crazy, I just figured it out, when we're bulking, 1:1:1 style, say at 200 lbs... for shakes we would need 2 scoops of real gains should (yield 50g carbs, 30 g protein) and about a little less than 1 (more than 3/4) scoop of an iso protein to yeld about 20 g protein, bringing the shake up to 50 carbs, 50 protein, and about 3.4 grams of fat... now we need about 46 more grams of fat so I'd go with some olive oil to fill it out. Otherwise, take out a scoop of real gains and put some PB in.

A 1:1:1 shake would be...

2 scoops real gains
a little less than 1 scoop iso protein
2 and a quarter table spoons of Extra Virgin Olive Oil, or maybe 1.5 table spoon and about 15 fish oil pills haha

awesome... we're starting the database!!!

[krazyassmexican]

yo crazy, I just figured it out, when we're bulking, 1:1:1 style, say at 200 lbs... for shakes we would need 2 scoops of real gains should (yield 50g carbs, 30 g protein) and about a little less than 1 (more than 3/4) scoop of an iso protein to yeld about 20 g protein, bringing the shake up to 50 carbs, 50 protein, and about 3.4 grams of fat... now we need about 46 more grams of fat so I'd go with some olive oil to fill it out. Otherwise, take out a scoop of real gains and put some PB in.

A 1:1:1 shake would be...

2 scoops real gains
a little less than 1 scoop iso protein
2 and a quarter table spoons of Extra Virgin Olive Oil, or maybe 1.5 table spoon and about 15 fish oil pills haha

awesome... we're starting the database!!!

yeah bro nice info in my case like i said i will fuck with unisyn and real gains by the way dont go krazy with the fish oil

just take whatever the doze is
if it says two pills a day do it that way

[spyderman4g63]

yeah bro nice info in my case like i said i will fuck with unisyn and real gains by the way dont go krazy with the fish oil

just take whatever the doze is
if it says two pills a day do it that way

Krazy, what else do you use to get your fat in? I have a jar of natty pb with me. Maybe I should add almonds or something?

This is day 2. it was a spur of the moment decision. I got that weird feeling everyone talks about. It's like I'm spinning around in circle with tunnel vision or something (hard to explain).

[simpleguy]

hey spyderman, there are lots of good fat sources, go for some good oils, and don't relly only on the peanut butter (which by the way has carbs in it)... I haven't seen this thread for about a week, I see chandler said (of course, probably not towards what I was saying) that carbs are not ok on this diet... I agree 100%, the moment you eat more than 25-50 gr of carbs per day (green veggies, and those from pb), you are no longer ketogenic, in my first post I just suggested that fellow that he doesn't neccesarily have to go on a keto diet to lose fat... however, chandler is right, you are ketogenic only as long as you don't have carbs in your sistem (or have only tiny amounts)

[spyderman4g63]

hey spyderman, there are lots of good fat sources, go for some good oils, and don't relly only on the peanut butter (which by the way has carbs in it)... I haven't seen this thread for about a week, I see chandler said (of course, probably not towards what I was saying) that carbs are not ok on this diet... I agree 100%, the moment you eat more than 25-50 gr of carbs per day (green veggies, and those from pb), you are no longer ketogenic, in my first post I just suggested that fellow that he doesn't neccesarily have to go on a keto diet to lose fat... however, chandler is right, you are ketogenic only as long as you don't have carbs in your sistem (or have only tiny amounts)

That is true that the PB has carbs in it. I am still staying low enough on the carbs (or maybe I shouldn't be getting carbs from PB, only from greens), but I don't think I am getting enough fat.

This is the nutrition info from the PB:
Serving: 2 tbsp
Cals: 210
Fat Cals: 150
Fat: 16g
Sat Fat: 2.5g
Trans: 0
Cholesterol: 0
Sodium: 0
Total Carbs: 6g
Fiber: 2g
Sugars: 1g
Protein 8g

I usually eat 2-3 servings. I only have enough to last me the rest of today. Then I gotta go shopping.

[geneticfreak]

How much green vegies is it ok to eat while on a keto diet I realy need to get in sum fibre or I get constipated

[krazyassmexican]

That is true that the PB has carbs in it. I am still staying low enough on the carbs (or maybe I shouldn't be getting carbs from PB, only from greens), but I don't think I am getting enough fat.

This is the nutrition info from the PB:
Serving: 2 tbsp
Cals: 210
Fat Cals: 150
Fat: 16g
Sat Fat: 2.5g
Trans: 0
Cholesterol: 0
Sodium: 0
Total Carbs: 6g
Fiber: 2g
Sugars: 1g
Protein 8g

I usually eat 2-3 servings. I only have enough to last me the rest of today. Then I gotta go shopping.

my fat sources are peanut butter, olive oil and fish oil

u could use flax seed oil and almonds of course

hey dont worry about the carbs in pb

if u dont believe me ask ox
at the beggining i didnt wanna eat peanut butter because of the carbs
he said go for it
when ox cuts his shakes contain pb

[adidamps2]

How much green vegies is it ok to eat while on a keto diet I realy need to get in sum fibre or I get constipated

no limit on veggies

[krazyassmexican]

How much green vegies is it ok to eat while on a keto diet I realy need to get in sum fibre or I get constipated

it all depends
broccoli has a lot of carbs u should go for 1/2 cup with ur meals
letucce will make u hungry i tried stay away from it

[lightattheend]

i will be startin a p/c/f 30/5/65 keto diet on thurs. i'm having one-two carb meals a week(if its two it'd be like one fri., one sat.). some of you guys say don't count carbs post workout, but wouldn't that raise insulin and kick you right out of ketosis on a daily basis??? im so conused ive neer done keto before. Also one more question. Drug stores sell "ketostix" with are little strips for diabetics to check urine for ketones. Are they accurate to check if you are in ketosis or are they a waste of money?

[lightattheend]

also do artificial sweeteners like crystal lite kick you out of ketosis?

[krazyassmexican]

i will be startin a p/c/f 30/5/65 keto diet on thurs. i'm having one-two carb meals a week(if its two it'd be like one fri., one sat.). some of you guys say don't count carbs post workout, but wouldn't that raise insulin and kick you right out of ketosis on a daily basis??? im so conused ive neer done keto before. Also one more question. Drug stores sell "ketostix" with are little strips for diabetics to check urine for ketones. Are they accurate to check if you are in ketosis or are they a waste of money?

good luck with your diet bro

i say you count the carbs post workout
if u carb up postworkout
i dont think ur ketogenic

i suggest you cheat one a week dont go twice again u gotta stay ketogenic

[krazyassmexican]

also do artificial sweeteners like crystal lite kick you out of ketosis?

i say you stay away from that
remember your suggar levels gotta stay low

[simpleguy]

hey lightattheend ketostix work, but if you really go on low carbs, probably you don't need them, maybe just one to be sure... secondly, I'd say stay away from artificial sweetners, they spike your insulin like crazy... or maybe have a diet coke post w/o with a pack of nitro... that way, nitro is gonna be your post w/o supplement (great stuff, also no carbs), and the diet coke is gonna spike your insulin levels a to get the nitro and/or protein shake to your muscles, but you'll still stay ketogenic, since it has zero carbs

[lightattheend]

thanks all. I'm already on nitro and glutamine(5g), and i'll be sure to stay away from those artificial sweeteners.

[brandon cutler]

how long should someone stay on this diet for? im gona start january, my first time cutting ever, my waist has blow up to 36, too big for my size.

and what do you guys eat preworkout while on this diet and what do you eat pwo?

and for the supps what do you guys take pwo? i was thinking nitro and storm would be good.

and im guessing you down a lot of water while on this diet right? helps keep the body full maybe.

[krazyassmexican]

how long should someone stay on this diet for? im gona start january, my first time cutting ever, my waist has blow up to 36, too big for my size.

and what do you guys eat preworkout while on this diet and what do you eat pwo?

and for the supps what do you guys take pwo? i was thinking nitro and storm would be good.

and im guessing you down a lot of water while on this diet right? helps keep the body full maybe.

in my case
my pre workout meal is a shake with pb and a serving or half serving of bcaa 2000

and post workout is my chicken breast veggies olive oil and liver tabs

i dont know how long u should stay on it i am going for 16 weeks

(i got 10 more to go)

[Preston]

in my case
my pre workout meal is a shake with pb and a serving or half serving of bcaa 2000

and post workout is my chicken breast veggies olive oil and liver tabs

i dont know how long u should stay on it i am going for 16 weeks

(i got 10 more to go)

Pre workout is great, but I would also add pb to your post workout meal also.

If you're going to deplete your carbs...then you need your body to feed off of some kind of energy, and all you'll have left after 0 carbs is fats!

Maybe add 2tbsp to each meal? That way you don't lose/burn muscle?

An idea I did when I was carb depleting....if that is right?

[krazyassmexican]

Pre workout is great, but I would also add pb to your post workout meal also.

If you're going to deplete your carbs...then you need your body to feed off of some kind of energy, and all you'll have left after 0 carbs is fats!

Maybe add 2tbsp to each meal? That way you don't lose/burn muscle?

An idea I did when I was carb depleting....if that is right?

that's pretty dope
i am having peanut butter with three of my meals already

[Preston]

that's pretty dope
i am having peanut butter with three of my meals already

I'd add them to all 6...but that's just what worked for me k-dawg...so do whatever works for you bro!

Just don't lose any muscle on us :)

[krazyassmexican]

I'd add them to all 6...but that's just what worked for me k-dawg...so do whatever works for you bro!

Just don't lose any muscle on us :)

doing my best to not lose anything

[Preston]

doing my best to not lose anything

Good or else you'd turn into me...haha

[krazyassmexican]

Good or else you'd turn into me...haha

i feel like cuts, uniliver, and bcaa 2000 egg pro ultra and specialized protein for dieters
is the best cuttin combo ever

[ChandlerXJ]

yeah a good amino to combat muscle catabolism, uni liver to fill in the protein needs by the gram, cuts to cut, pak, i think thats all we need.

[Big Rich]

+1
I too am a firm believer in a keto diet.

[4NIM4L2D4]

i started reading about the ketogenic diet and it sounds like something i might wanna try but im thinking is it just 4 lose fat or can you GAIN MUSCLE on this routine do to the lack of carbs??? in other words is this diet just for losing bodyfat or gaining muscle/gettin stronger also?

[krazyassmexican]

dude from what i know you cant lose fat and gain muscle on a cut!

p.s. keto diet is the shit

[ChandlerXJ]

Krazy, there is no doubt you are gaining a little muscle, there is NO way!! You're lifts have gone way up!

We'll see when you're shredded!

[krazyassmexican]

Krazy, there is no doubt you are gaining a little muscle, there is NO way!! You're lifts have gone way up!

We'll see when you're shredded!

lifts when up but i dont think i am gaining muscle
it's just showing up

[ChandlerXJ]

weigh in tomorrow bro, I'm rooting for you

[krazyassmexican]

weigh in tomorrow bro, I'm rooting for you

i hope everythin went well this week
i am puttin progress pics too bro

[Rooster]

I found this diet planner on stanfords web site.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/ketodiet/mealplnr.xls

Pretty cool. Although a little difficult to use but it can help get you started.

Peace

[Rooster]

After further reading I found this:

A person starting the ketogenic diet may feel sluggish for a few days after the diet is started. This can worsen if a child is sick at the same time as the diet is started. Make sure to encourage carbohydrate-free fluids during illnesses.


Other side effects that might occur if the person stays on the diet for a long time are:

kidney stones
high cholesterol levels in the blood
dehydration
constipation
slowed growth or weight gain
bone fractures
Because the diet does not provide all the vitamins and minerals found in a balanced diet, the dietician will recommend vitamin and mineral supplements. The most important of these are calcium and vitamin D (to prevent thinning of the bones), iron, and folic acid.

There are no anticonvulsants that should be stopped while on the diet. Topamax (topiramate) and Zonegran (zonisamide) do not have a higher risk of acidosis or kidney stones while on the diet. Depakote (valproic acid) does not lead to carnitine deficiency or other difficulties while on the diet either. Medication levels do not change while on the diet according to recent studies.



Peace

[simpleguy]

Krazy, there is no doubt you are gaining a little muscle, there is NO way!! You're lifts have gone way up!
We'll see when you're shredded!

Krazy, honestly you have all my support , but I really doubt that the keto diet can help build muscle... that's the reason I don't use it for my cut, I always lose muscle when I'm on low carbs, but probably it's just me... just be sure not to lose too much weight...keep it going

After further reading I found this:
A person starting the ketogenic diet may feel sluggish for a few days after the diet is started. This can worsen if a child is sick at the same time as the diet is started. Make sure to encourage carbohydrate-free fluids during illnesses.
Other side effects that might occur if the person stays on the diet for a long time are:
kidney stones
high cholesterol levels in the blood
dehydration
constipation
slowed growth or weight gain
bone fractures
Because the diet does not provide all the vitamins and minerals found in a balanced diet, the dietician will recommend vitamin and mineral supplements. The most important of these are calcium and vitamin D (to prevent thinning of the bones), iron, and folic acid.
There are no anticonvulsants that should be stopped while on the diet. Topamax (topiramate) and Zonegran (zonisamide) do not have a higher risk of acidosis or kidney stones while on the diet. Depakote (valproic acid) does not lead to carnitine deficiency or other difficulties while on the diet either. Medication levels do not change while on the diet according to recent studies.

yeah bro, but as long as you drink enough water, your kidneys are fine... secondly, high cholesterol only occurs if you eat a large amount of saturated fat... about the vitamins it's true, although on a keto diet you can have some veggies, probably it's not enough to get all vitamins, but that's why we have animal pak

[krazyassmexican]

After further reading I found this:

A person starting the ketogenic diet may feel sluggish for a few days after the diet is started. This can worsen if a child is sick at the same time as the diet is started. Make sure to encourage carbohydrate-free fluids during illnesses.




LOL
what's wrong with feeling alive?

[krazyassmexican]

Krazy, honestly you have all my support , but I really doubt that the keto diet can help build muscle... that's the reason I don't use it for my cut, I always lose muscle when I'm on low carbs, but probably it's just me... just be sure not to lose too much weight...keep it going




dude i know i am not building muscle
i am cuting
and thanks for the support

[Pizzalamp]

with this diet its possible u MIGHT gain a BIT of muscle w/ the addition of essential fats if youre diet had been lacking in them-when i followed this diet i actually did gain a bit
but the diet is mainly anti catobolic-for once i didnt lose any muscle-i was never hungry-and all my weights went up each session in gym
oh yeah!!!

[Seifer]

Through carb cycling I've gained quite a bit of muscle and lost ALOT of fat , especially during my first 4 months or so.


In fact, I learned the hard way that training without eating (correctly) wont do much.



Not sure if it will show up , but click on this link:

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/11041195/profilepic/189112orig.gif



Its me on April 1st of this year, and me again on or about July 1st of this year.

Training 5x a week, carb cycling, high protein.

[Shark]

lol The fact is, don't put all your apples in one basket guys. Different body types respond differently to different diets. You have to experiment and try things out to see what works best for you. There is no UNIVERSAL diet where you lose fat, gain muscle and get a bigger dick. Sorry guys, it just doesn't work that way.

Basically, you can love the diet, or knock on it all you want. But your body isn't identical to anyone else's. So noone should be preaching about how anyone is wasting their time. Experimenting is NOT a waste of time.

That being said, that wasn't directed towards anyone in general. If you feel I offended you, go hug yourself in a corner and come back out when your feeling better.

[MeatZatk]

Through carb cycling I've gained quite a bit of muscle and lost ALOT of fat , especially during my first 4 months or so.


In fact, I learned the hard way that training without eating (correctly) wont do much.



Not sure if it will show up , but click on this link:

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/11041195/profilepic/189112orig.gif



Its me on April 1st of this year, and me again on or about July 1st of this year.

Training 5x a week, carb cycling, high protein.

That pic is fuckin awesome. Nice transformation. How'd you get it to morph like that (other than busting your ass in the gym)?

[Seifer]

Thx bro, its just a morphing program I DL off the net somewhere.



If you like that one, check this one out:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/data/500/4montbicep2.gif


April 1 to Aug 1

[adidamps2]

i started reading about the ketogenic diet and it sounds like something i might wanna try but im thinking is it just 4 lose fat or can you GAIN MUSCLE on this routine do to the lack of carbs??? in other words is this diet just for losing bodyfat or gaining muscle/gettin stronger also?

lets see with a proper keto style diet, ones HGH, cholestoral level, and testosterone levels should all "IDEALLY" increase...so you tell us if its possible to gain muscel while dieting this way, even on a calorie restricted diet.




i know i have

[ANewBreed]

If one was on a Ketogenic diet, how would u go aboutPWO? would fat take the place of the simple and complex carbs?

[krazyassmexican]

If one was on a Ketogenic diet, how would u go aboutPWO? would fat take the place of the simple and complex carbs?

ketosis means high protein high fat no carbs
24/7 no matter if it is pre or post workout

[adidamps2]

start with this thread here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=231345

[simpleguy]

I have to agree with krazy, a regular pwo shake (take torrent for example) would knock you out of ketosis, avoid simple carbs at all costs during a keto diet, and the rest should be no more than 20-30 g per day (veggies, the natural occuring carbs in peanut butter etc)

[adidamps2]

PWO on keto can and should have CARBS int it. i urge you to go read the link i posted as it has a bunch of solid information in it.

keto is NOT fat and protein only. there are a plethera of keto "type" diets...and 0 carb is one of them..however you can can diet upto 100g of carbs aday and stay in ketosis.

[krazyassmexican]

I have to agree with krazy, a regular pwo shake (take torrent for example) would knock you out of ketosis, avoid simple carbs at all costs during a keto diet, and the rest should be no more than 20-30 g per day (veggies, the natural occuring carbs in peanut butter etc)

exactly!

[ANewBreed]

Please humor me as I know little about the process of ketosis....how will PWO be affected by the lack of insulin pwo...how do I rid the body of cortisol in the morning without insulin? (adid. in the process of reading the thread you suggested)

[krazyassmexican]

why would u want to rise ur sugar levels?

that way i would recomend you either
low carb diet
or carb cycle
forget about ketosis

[osiris]

Having a PWO containing carbs limits the amount of carbs you can have for the rest of the day and thats a fucker if all you get is 30g carbs/day.
Go with a protein/ fat shake PWO, coz the carbs are just to induce a insulin spike and you get that from your protein once your body adapts to the keto diet.

[krazyassmexican]

Having a PWO containing carbs limits the amount of carbs you can have for the rest of the day and thats a fucker if all you get is 30g carbs/day.
Go with a protein/ fat shake PWO, coz the carbs are just to induce a insulin spike and you get that from your protein once your body adapts to the keto diet.

besides
if you carb up

you are gonna post a new thread asking us why you feel like shit!

[adidamps2]

your absolutely stuck on zero carb as the only way to keto arent you?

i keto diet, my diet is 65%fat, 30% pro and 5% carbs...and i am in ketosis.
200f/60c (30g fiber)/200g pro on non-training day a lil over 2700 cals
220gf/90g carb (35g fiber)/210g pro on training days a lil over 3000 cals

keto is not an absolute zero carb diet.
ketosis occurs when carbs levels are dropped to a point in which the body reconizes it needs to shift to ketos for bodily fuel.

[ANewBreed]

why would u want to rise ur sugar levels?

that way i would recomend you either
low carb diet
or carb cycle
forget about ketosis

Because insulin is one of the most anbolic hormones the body can produce. Also rids the body of cortisol when its at its highest levels (in the morning and PWO)....Im simply asking for suggestions on what to eat PWO on a ketosis diet if I was doing a 0 carb version of it.

[simpleguy]

besides
if you carb up
you are gonna post a new thread asking us why you feel like shit!

lol cracked myself bro damn that was good .... but it's true

[krazyassmexican]

Because insulin is one of the most anbolic hormones the body can produce. Also rids the body of cortisol when its at its highest levels (in the morning and PWO)....Im simply asking for suggestions on what to eat PWO on a ketosis diet if I was doing a 0 carb version of it.

read osiris' post

he's absolutly rite
once ur on ketosis
ur body will raise ur insuline
using protein

in my case
i eat chicken, veggies olive oil and LIVERTABS

isnt this a good way of keepin an anabolic state?

[krazyassmexican]

keto is not an absolute zero carb diet.
ketosis occurs when carbs levels are dropped to a point in which the body reconizes it needs to shift to ketos for bodily fuel.

i know
i keep my diet on 24grams of carbs a day
except for my cheat meal

[adidamps2]

this thread here is also of revence to the discussion...http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=8232

the link provided in this thread is were i got the info from.

please review this as well.

[simpleguy]

thanks adidamps , that link in the thread also starts like this: 'We now know that we should eat a diet that is low in carbohydrates'... who knows this? maybe him... I'd wish I see the author of that article, I wonder how muscular he looks, damn, it seems everyone knows everything nowadays

[adidamps2]

i know
i keep my diet on 24grams of carbs a day
except for my cheat meal

increasing carbs on work out days too are usefull in repair.

and due to the fact the body will be in a hypercarbsensitive state. i cant remember the term for this. but basically your body will use it quickly to refuel muscle glycogen (yeah some will go to the liver, but considering the size of the liver and how much carbs it can store this will not be a problem or knock you out of ketosis). sensible PWO carb cunsuption may not be neccassary,but it is not goign to defeat the purpose of keto dieting either.

[adidamps2]

thanks adidamps , that link in the thread also starts like this: 'We now know that we should eat a diet that is low in carbohydrates'... who knows this? maybe him... I'd wish I see the author of that article, I wonder how muscular he looks, damn, it seems everyone knows everything nowadays

click the link in that article i posted it takes ytou too his web-page...he's picture is available on the site home page...he is an olympic archer. not a BB.

[HardcoreB52]

I was on a 0 carb, high protein diet before and thoroughly liked the results of how fast I dropped weight. Yet it left me feeling empty and very tired at certain times. I realized that with that low of carbs light cardio might be my only option. I would definitely work in complex carbs maybe once a day, but every body is different....good luck and keep it up!

[krazyassmexican]

I was on a 0 carb, high protein diet before and thoroughly liked the results of how fast I dropped weight. Yet it left me feeling empty and very tired at certain times. I realized that with that low of carbs light cardio might be my only option. I would definitely work in complex carbs maybe once a day, but every body is different....good luck and keep it up!

in my case i get carbs from veggies, protein powder and pb

24grams a day
and at no times i feel hungry

i really feel full all the time!

[SolidTongan]

start with this thread here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=231345

It all sounds plausible...but I wish the article had research behind it. If it did, only then would I start addin' carbs to my PW meal because I am currently cuttin' bacc on carbs as well.

[adidamps2]

It all sounds plausible...but I wish the article had research behind it. If it did, only then would I start addin' carbs to my PW meal because I am currently cuttin' bacc on carbs as well.

posts 1 and 4 both have research article included in them...

as far real life app's i am using this as my PWO meal:


8oz whole milk
2 whole raw eggs
1 scoop whey
1 tsp lecithin
2 tbsl heavy whipping cream
1 tbsp coconut oil
1 med/large banana
1 tbls honey (may switch this up with molasses in the future)

which equals out to
fat: 48g
carbs: 55g
fiber: 3
pro: 43g

and i am not gaining fat and my recovery is what i would call good esp considering my age now.

and this even goes agaist the recommendation of NO fat PWO.3

i bleieve not only are carbs helpful PWO but so is fat and protein.

[ChandlerXJ]

For those of you who are interested in the MUSCLE SPARING FAT MELTING diet of KETO... here is a cool site.

Check out the summary link on the side.

http://www.keto.org/

[Seifer]

Thanks alot!

[Testpolska]

I've never used a Keto diet before but I see that alot among you are using it to diet down with fairly good results. I'm on a bulk right now so this is not an urgent question but several months down the road I will evenutally start a cut.

My question to you guys is: From what I've gathered about ketosis, it makes your breath smell horrible. What do you guys use to freshen it up? Again I've never used a Keto diet so I'm not sure how bad it gets. Would sugar free gum be acceptable or is that out due to the 1-2g of sugar alcohols that are in those?

Whats the deal?

[Pizzalamp]

I've never used a Keto diet before but I see that alot among you are using it to diet down with fairly good results. I'm on a bulk right now so this is not an urgent question but several months down the road I will evenutally start a cut.

My question to you guys is: From what I've gathered about ketosis, it makes your breath smell horrible. What do you guys use to freshen it up? Again I've never used a Keto diet so I'm not sure how bad it gets. Would sugar free gum be acceptable or is that out due to the 1-2g of sugar alcohols that are in those?

Whats the deal?

i always used listerine after every meal and i chewed gum sometimes-but i swear the gum made me hungrier lol

[Mastrcruse]

I don't chew gum since it has sugar or a sugar additive.

I just brush my teeth about 100 times a day

[Testpolska]

So from what I'm gathering from you is, Its THAT bad? I mean personally I know most of us wouldn't care but if I ever dieted and my breath smelled like shit my girl would have a fit.

[Seifer]

piss smells worse than the breath

[Testpolska]

Good to know, but considering I don't do much peeing on my girl...I'd be more worried about the breath bro, but thanks for the insight.

I mean whatever your into man...but that just ain't me.

[Chin]

i always used listerine after every meal and i chewed gum sometimes-but i swear the gum made me hungrier lol

If you chew it for long enough it will... you are tricking your body...

the chewing reflex, causes your stomach to increase its volume by opening these folds called rugae. The more you chew the more food your body thinks its getting so it inflates your stomach.

I find it effective when I am bloated to hell from eating something gasey or eating too much

Chin

[gsb239]

Doesnt it just smell like alcohol? or sweet?

[adidamps2]

Doesnt it just smell like alcohol? or sweet?

according to my wife it smells like "dog shit"...

but yes, thats what it is suppose to smell like.

[Renji007]

Is this good or not. I think it not to be too bad if you're on keto. But I need other opinions.....Please help.

[humanforklift]

usually in my last meal at night...the fat slows the digestion of the casien shake I take in. And it will keep you a bit full too.

[krazyassmexican]

nothing wrong with the healthy fats on natty pb on keto
if you dont believe me check out evan's diet or dave palumbo's diet

[Pizzalamp]

Is this good or not. I think it not to be too bad if you're on keto. But I need other opinions.....Please help.

perfectely fine

get some Smooth Operator by Peanut Butter and Co.-best natty pb ever

[MonTanaMusCle]

Ya man OX mentions in OX's stable that since fat doesnt spike insulin it's cool to eat whenever even before bed. Check out that thread its full of KETO info.

[Renji007]

Thanks brothers. This really made my day since without carbs PB is the best thing I've got to eat..Since it taste so sweet. Though will it slow down the digestion of a turkey breast too, or does that only work for shakes ???

[krazyassmexican]

Thanks brothers. This really made my day since without carbs PB is the best thing I've got to eat..Since it taste so sweet. Though will it slow down the digestion of a turkey breast too, or does that only work for shakes ???

dont worry about that
shit G

you have to worry about gettin healthy fats in your system!
so you can get ketones in your system
dont get technical

[Pizzalamp]

Thanks brothers. This really made my day since without carbs PB is the best thing I've got to eat..Since it taste so sweet. Though will it slow down the digestion of a turkey breast too, or does that only work for shakes ???

i like to have pb or nuts with my turkey or chicken meals

[Seifer]

There were , honestly, times at night when I'd get up to pee....and half asleep walk back through the kitchen and pickup something sweet my gf had laying around. Cant do that while cutting.


So I took The House's suggestion and keep PB beside my bed with a spoon. Sure it looks bad, having food containers in my bedroom, but it works.

[Toni69]

Im on keto a while now and my last meal usually includes 1tbs natty pb and its not negatively affecting my progress so far. The carbs in natty pb are coming from fiber and are naturally occcuring carbs...its fine. Its too small an amount to even worry about...as long as your peanut butter is actually natural or organic...not skippy/jif crap with preservatives and added who knows what to it.

[Preston]

Im on keto a while now and my last meal usually includes 1tbs natty pb and its not negatively affecting my progress so far. The carbs in natty pb are coming from fiber and are naturally occcuring carbs...its fine. Its too small an amount to even worry about...as long as your peanut butter is actually natural or organic...not skippy/jif crap with preservatives and added who knows what to it.

doesn't fiber cancel out other carbs anyway? Or reduce the "number" of them?

[krazyassmexican]

doesn't fiber cancel out other carbs anyway? Or reduce the "number" of them?

fiber and the healthy fats kill the carbs in the case of the natty pb

[HoldFast]

Glad this question was asked. Ive been skipping Fats during my final meal before bed. Not anymore!
Thanks to all for the info.

[anml]

just wanted to know if it could be done? i know that keto is not to have that much carbs but could it work? will i still lose weight(i will use torrent every other day)? and how much carbs are we talkin about on a keto diet?

[musclealchemist]

no torrent during a keto diet. I saw ox said that one time on here. So stay away from it during a cut.

[bobbymart]

no carbs on a keto diet unless they come from GREEN veggies.

[naturalguy]

As the others have said, Torrent is a no-no on a keto diet

[Angst]

just wanted to know if it could be done? i know that keto is not to have that much carbs but could it work? will i still lose weight(i will use torrent every other day)? and how much carbs are we talkin about on a keto diet?

I believe you are suppose to keep the insulin level constant when you are on the keto diet, the carbs in Torrent has a high Glycemic Index, which will spike insulin.

[adidamps2]

52carbs post work out is not going to blast you out of ketosis. and if your that worried about it, just adjust the rest of your daily carb intake to accomidate those 52 carbs, even if than means no other carb source for that day (ie. peanuts, almonds, or other low carb foods). the general rule is to have less than 40g a day of carbs for the 1st 2 weeks of starting up the diet. after the iduction phase just keep it less than a 100g aday (after you subtract out fiber intake). although i personally wouldnt use torrent every other day, i would deffinetly use it for leg and back days post training.

[krazyassmexican]

no torrent during ketosis period!

[adidamps2]

elevating insulin PWO whilst on keto is fine, and still needed to a degree to help with up take of nutritents. i take in regulary 70+g of carbs Post w/o and still maintain my keto state. once one has achieved fat adaptation/ketosis it takes more than a mear 50g of carbs to knock you out of ketossis, esp after a work out were your body is looking for anything and everything to start the rebuilding/repair cycle. now i would not use torrent every day while on a keto diet but once or twice a week, preferably spread out too, for leg and back days is not going to stall progress on keto or prevent one from entering/maintaining ketosis. esp if they take the time to track carb intake and keep everything in check. meaning they know how much carbs they are consuming and account for them all. it is easy to use carb containing products/sources (with in reason) while on a keto diet if one knows what they are doing.

[krazyassmexican]

spikin your insulin levels gets you in a low carb state

the cheat meal once a week spikes the insulin
that is the reason it's the last meal of the day so you can go to sleep and wake up ketogenic
if you spike your insulin every day
it may take you 3 days to go back on ketosis

and since you wont get those 3 days
then you'll be on lowcarbs

[NumeroUno]

The ideal carb intake is <35g's. Eating 100 g's will easily kick you out of ketosis. You're not supposed to grow on a keto run, you're supposed to maintain muscle while cutting fat. If you strive for both you will end up kicking yourself in the ass. The only way to grow from a keto run is a glycogen super compensation at the end of the run. i.e. after at least a 7 day keto run you take a 36 hour load period. You can do whatever you want, but scientifically... you're doomed to fail.

To get your nutrients into your muscles, take supplements such as Chromium Picolinate or ADA. They are insulin mimickers and will drive our nutrients into your muscles without kicking you out of ketosis. Do some research on ketosis before you make your run.

-NumeroUno

[krazyassmexican]

The ideal carb intake is <35g's. Eating 100 g's will easily kick you out of ketosis. You're not supposed to grow on a keto run, you're supposed to maintain muscle while cutting fat. If you strive for both you will end up kicking yourself in the ass. The only way to grow from a keto run is a glycogen super compensation at the end of the run. i.e. after at least a 7 day keto run you take a 36 hour load period. You can do whatever you want, but scientifically... you're doomed to fail.

-NumeroUno

and if you do your 36 hour load period
it will still take you three days to be on ketosis

let say
you start your load in a saturday and you go back on sunday afternoon or whatever

only until wednesday you'll be on ketosis again
so you got 2 days and a half to run on ketones
until you do your load again

cuttin means cuttin
if you wanna put on muscle
then i will bulk

[adidamps2]

elevating insulin PWO whilst on keto is fine, and still needed to a degree to help with up take of nutritents. i take in regulary 70+g of carbs Post w/o and still maintain my keto state. once one has achieved fat adaptation/ketosis it takes more than a mear 50g of carbs to knock you out of ketossis, esp after a work out were your body is looking for anything and everything to start the rebuilding/repair cycle. now i would not use torrent every day while on a keto diet but once or twice a week, preferably spread out too, for leg and back days is not going to stall progress on keto or prevent one from entering/maintaining ketosis. esp if they take the time to track carb intake and keep everything in check. meaning they know how much carbs they are consuming and account for them all. it is easy to use carb containing products/sources (with in reason) while on a keto diet if one knows what they are doing.

spikin your insulin levels gets you in a low carb state

the cheat meal once a week spikes the insulin
that is the reason it's the last meal of the day so you can go to sleep and wake up ketogenic
if you spike your insulin every day
it may take you 3 days to go back on ketosis

and since you wont get those 3 days
then you'll be on lowcarbs


here lemme help ya with what i was saying, as it appears you missed it. i bold texted it for ya.

[krazyassmexican]

if you guys think it's very importan spikin your insulin while cuttin
then i suggest you stay away from ketosis

and do low carbs or cycles

if you are on ketosis and spike your insulin levels
then you are gonna post a new thread wondering why you feel sluggish

[adidamps2]

if you guys think it's very importan spikin your insulin while cuttin
then i suggest you stay away from ketosis

and do low carbs or cycles

if you are on ketosis and spike your insulin levels
then you are gonna post a new thread wondering why you feel sluggish

i live on keto...and have no energy issues, and regually consume 70+g of carbs post work out 2x a week (since i only lift twice a week.). the rest of the time i maintain a 40g aday or less carb intake, and have no issue with staying in ketosis. it takes a hell of a lot more to knock one's self out of ketosis than you think. PWO torrent wont do it (by its self.) if taken 2x per week and spread out.

[IRBS]

You two have made your points. I suggest you end it here. Agree to disagree and move on. No one is noticing the point anymore, all that is being noticed is the disagreement between the two of you.

MOVE ON....

[Shaffer_515]

i live on keto...and have no energy issues, and regually consume 70+g of carbs post work out 2x a week (since i only lift twice a week.). the rest of the time i maintain a 40g aday or less carb intake, and have no issue with staying in ketosis. it takes a hell of a lot more to knock one's self out of ketosis than you think. PWO torrent wont do it (by its self.) if taken 2x per week and spread out.



Hmmm intresting.....is it that your just used to the energy issue or you never had them?

[escholar05]

hey all,

For the last 8 days, to quote madcat, my diet has been 'strict and hardcore'. I've eaten nothing but beef, chicken, fish, peanuts, olive and canola oil, and whole fat cheese. And yet, I've gotten a total of two keto sticks to turn kinda dark. Am I missing something here? Are the keto sticks wrong, or whats goin on here? If you want to see my exact diet, its detailed in my journey, which is linked in my sig. Thanks.

[krazyassmexican]

hey all,

For the last 8 days, to quote madcat, my diet has been 'strict and hardcore'. I've eaten nothing but beef, chicken, fish, peanuts, olive and canola oil, and whole fat cheese. And yet, I've gotten a total of two keto sticks to turn kinda dark. Am I missing something here? Are the keto sticks wrong, or whats goin on here? If you want to see my exact diet, its detailed in my journey, which is linked in my sig. Thanks.

does your breath smell like shit?
if it does fuck keto strips

fat cheese
correct me if i am wrong but i am guessin cheese has lactose since it comes from milk
so if it does
it has carbs

no diary on ketosis
with this said i am out of this thread cuz i know there's gonna be people trying to start arguments

[escholar05]

i checked the label for the cheese, and carbs are <1 gram.

[krazyassmexican]

i checked the label for the cheese, and carbs are <1 gram.

what kind of veggies are you using?
i still wouldnt use diary
and one more time if your breath smells like shit and your piss too
then forget about keto strips

[escholar05]

just iceberg lettuce, and a little bit of broccoli with dinner.

[krazyassmexican]

just iceberg lettuce, and a little bit of broccoli with dinner.

broccoli aint a great veggie for ketosis
use only 1/2 cup

iceberg lettuce will make you hungry LOL
use

alfalfa sprouts, spinach, asparagus, green beans

[barischeg]

ur diet looks pretty good, probly need more time for u to totally get into ketosis. i wouldnt worry too much about it.. just do ur cardio and lift hard u will start to get cut...

[gsb239]

Not to sound rude or vulgar... but how do you shit man? Eat more veggies!

[escholar05]

thanks for the help guys, and ur right I do need more veggies, when I started I was just using sugar free metamucil, and so thats why I didnt have any plumbing problems.

[krazyassmexican]

i just saw your diet
are you sure you have your macros in check?
excess of protein counts as cheating

not even evan or dave palumbo eat 12oz of chicken

[krazyassmexican]

i didnt see any fats on the diet either

[adidamps2]

how many carbs in that whey protein shake your taken there?

[Fury317]

Hey Joe, like krazy said, I say drop the cheese. You must have snuck that past me haha. You dont want dairy, even that kind. Also, instead of ice berg, you need to eat romain. Iceberg is nothing but water, it has no nutritional value at all, romain is where all the vitamins and nutrients are. Also, you should be eating a half cup veggies with almost every sitting. Along wiht being your only "carb" source, veggies are wonderul for dieting, the fiber suppresses appetite and helps wiht digestion of protiens and fats. My favorites are broccolii, asparagus, and green beans.

Dont put too much concern with those keto strips. Basically, once you feel like shit, get past that stage, and have a lot more energy, youre in ketosis.

Stick with it bro, youre doing great.

[ThirdEye]

Cut the Shock Therapy and just use Storm.
Equate how big a portion of chicken/fish you should be eating at meals. Maybe to accomodate the 12oz size, reduce the number of scoops of Whey.
Get your half cup of almonds in, twice a day as snack, it really helps.
Drink lots of water, and if craving sugar, get a kick from diet soda, but make sure your waters in check first.
Make sure your getting your Fish oils/Evening primrose oil and Extra Virgin Olive oil in every day.

[adidamps2]

BTW full fat cheese is prefectly fien of keto. this hole dairy myth is just that.

i find it humorous guys suggest not to use things like cheese, heavy whipping cream or sour cream...but ironically use casien or no carb/low carb whey...like those two protein sources some how arent dairy once they are sepperated from the whole milk faction. use the fucking cheese (full fat kind), use heavy whipping cream and dont be affraid of sour cream (full fat). those one to 2 (if that) carbs are far less impacting than peanut butter carbs in the long run. consider the fact that even if you minus out the fiber you still end up with more over all carbs and a shitty protein source from the peanutbutter. BTW the biggest reason most suggest to not use dairy whilst cutting is due to the higher sodium content which can be easily adjusted for with high(er) water intake and cardio/intense training.

[adidamps2]

Hmmm intresting.....is it that your just used to the energy issue or you never had them?

i dunno, i have always kept my fat intake HIGH, and i think that has had the biggest differnce in the energy shift from carbs to fat, and most likely the reason i didnt really experience a huge drop in energy levels while i made the change.

[krazyassmexican]

who cares about sodium
as a matter of fact add sodium to most of your meals!

[adidamps2]

who cares about sodium
as a matter of fact add sodium to most of your meals!

i believe that was my point as well.

[brandona]

BTW full fat cheese is prefectly fien of keto. this hole dairy myth is just that.

i find it humorous guy suggest not to use things like cheese, heavy whipping cream or sour cream...but ironically use casien or no carb/low carb whey...like those to protein sources some how arent dairy once they are sepperated from the whole milk faction. use the fucking cheese (full fat kind), use heavy whiping cream and dont be affraid of sour cream (full fat). those one to 2 (if that carbs) are far less impacting than peanut butter carbs in the long run consider the fact that even if minus out he fiber you still end up with more over all carbs and a shitty protein source. BTW the biggest reason most suggest to not use dairy whilst cutting is due to the higher sodium content which can be easily adjust for with high water intake and cardio/intense training.

good points there Adida...dont be afraid to the moo cow....

-B

[escholar05]

ok, gonna try to answer all the posts...

1. my protein powder has 3 g of carbs per scoop, and 1 g fiber

2. Im gonna drop the cheeses from the diet, and see what kind of effect that has.

3. I am doing my best to incorporate veggies, thats my biggest switch, because I am not normally a veggie eater, which I know is also bad, it's a work in progress.

4. as far as fats go, I add canola oil to my eggs every morning, I have 4 1g flax oil gels with every meal, I cook my chicken in olive oil, and I eat peanuts. And ground beef has its own fat.

5. As far as macro's are concerned, I ran my original sample diet through a nutrition program to examine it, and everything seems to be on point.

6. the 12oz size is raw, cooked I am sure it is closer to 9-10. I'm just guessing however, I don't own a food scale, I just eat two medium sized chicken breasts, or I just brown a little over half a pound package of ground beef.

7. I will try cutting shock therapy, although I am fairly addicted to the whole preworkout energy boost thing. Any ideas on a replacement? preferably universal (pump is a little expensive, especially since I've already bought st/storm), but you can even pm me off brand suggestions.

I think that covers everything...as fury said, I did experience the initial two days of no energy and feeling like shit, and now I feel better than I did when I was on carbs, I think I'm probably doing fine, I just wish the keto strips would agree with me. I've lost about 5lbs so far, but I'm pretty sure most of that was water weight, because as soon as I started the diet I upped my water intake to 1.5 gal a day.

[krazyassmexican]

if you are not a veggie eater that was the reason i suggested you dieting on low carbs
the fat that you consume should not be the one that you cook with
but should be fat that you take with a spoon via your mouth or on pills
fish oil is a must

dont cook with olive oil
that is not healthy at all
if you need a boost pre workout
have either a cup of coffee or pump

[adidamps2]

what did your macro's come out as in your calculator?

how many/much peanuts do you eat dailly?

btw i still dont eat next to any veggies while i keto, i just make up my fiber intake with avocado's and and nut fiber, or i throw down 20g of psyillium husk powder (taste liek shit BTW) if i cant get in the amoutn o fiber i shoot for daily to make the differnce up.

[escholar05]

protein was ~315g, fat ~130g...this was assuming 205lb lbm I think, right now i'm 242.

[krazyassmexican]

protein was ~315g, fat ~130g...this was assuming 205lb lbm I think, right now i'm 242.

i still think 10 0z of chicken and 8 eggs get you more protein than you need

[adidamps2]

thats a lot of protein and very little fat for a full keto diet.

[escholar05]

ok, so whats the most efficient and healthy way to up my fat intake?

[krazyassmexican]

ok, so whats the most efficient and healthy way to up my fat intake?

eat the fat raw like i suggested before
with a spoon or on pills

i think the fat is correct but it's too much protein
you should consume 1.5 grams x lean body weight
and then count the protein in uniliver as well

[adidamps2]

ok, so whats the most efficient and healthy way to up my fat intake?

eat fattier cuts of beef over trimmed down skinless chicken
up your whole egg consumption
add in pork or lamb to your diet
try organ meats like beef/chicken/lamb liver
use heavy whipping cream/safflower oil/olive oil/MCT (ie. coconut) oil to your shakes
try avocados or cocnut meat (real, raw coconut meat, not shitty bagged stuff)
up your almond or other healthy nut intake

[escholar05]

alright, how bad is olive oil gonna taste in a protein shake? what fat oils taste the best taken by the spoonful, because I took a shot of olive oil once and basically projectile vomited.

[krazyassmexican]

alright, how bad is olive oil gonna taste in a protein shake? what fat oils taste the best taken by the spoonful, because I took a shot of olive oil once and basically projectile vomited.

olive oil doesnt taste on a shake
and it doesnt taste bad by itself either
one more time if you got problems consumin fats go with low carbs

[Wasteland]

alright, how bad is olive oil gonna taste in a protein shake? what fat oils taste the best taken by the spoonful, because I took a shot of olive oil once and basically projectile vomited.

Olive oil? Maybe it was rancid? I've never had a problem with olive oil. I actually think it tastes pretty good, as far as oils go. Shouldn't be much of a problem in a protein shake, I'm thinking. Many people don't realize that these oils are natural and, like food, can spoil.

[adidamps2]

alright, how bad is olive oil gonna taste in a protein shake? what fat oils taste the best taken by the spoonful, because I took a shot of olive oil once and basically projectile vomited.

i find MCT/coconut oil to be the bomb in a shake. adds a nice coconutty taste to it.
by the spoon it doesnt taste to bad, better than olive oil

[Wasteland]

i find MCT/coconut oil to be the bomb in a shake. adds a nice coconutty taste to it.
by the spoon it doesnt taste to bad, better than olive oil

Good call on the MCTs. A very functional oil.

[adidamps2]

Good call on the MCTs. A very functional oil.

and tastey. :)

[escholar05]

alright guys, thanks for all the help....I'm gonna go with more fat/ less protein, and no cheese, and see where that gets me. Once again, I appreciate all the help, check my journey in about a week to see how things went.

[Wasteland]

and tastey. :)

Let's not get carried away, LOL. It do find it has a very neutral taste to it, which makes it easy to mix into different recipes.

[adidamps2]

Let's not get carried away, LOL. It do find it has a very neutral taste to it, which makes it easy to mix into different recipes.

are you talking MCT or coconut oil, i personally use coconut oil and melt it down before i pour it in my shakes. just have to be careful as to not let it get cold to quick or it solidifies right back up...and thats not fun :(

[Wasteland]

are you talking MCT or coconut oil, i personally use coconut oil and melt it down before i pour it in my shakes. just have to be careful as to not let it get cold to quick or it solidifies right back up...and thats not fun :(

MCT.

I don't use coconut oil in my shakes, though I've been cooking a lot with it lately.

[adidamps2]

MCT.

I don't use coconut oil in my shakes, though I've been cooking a lot with it lately.

scoop out a tbls and melt it in the microwave..then add it to a shake. see if it tastes anybetter thna bland old MCT oil. the coconut oil still preserves a good amount of the flavor of coconut.

[Wasteland]

scoop out a tbls and melt it in the microwave..then add it to a shake. see if it tastes anybetter thna bland old MCT oil. the coconut oil still preserves a good amount of the flavor of coconut.

Not a bad plan. Will do as I'm sure it will give the shake a better overall texture.

[adidamps2]

Not a bad plan. Will do as I'm sure it will give the shake a better overall texture.

just be carefull if the liquid is too cool and your oil not warm enough, it will quickly recongeal back into the coconut "lard" in the shake.

[Wasteland]

just be carefull if the liquid is too cool and your oil not warm enough, it will quickly recongeal back into the coconut "lard" in the shake.

That's exactly what I was going to anticipate. I figured it would be a protein shake I could eat with a spoon, LOL.

[escholar05]

can you get coconut oil at like walmart? what do you think about canola oil, it has like no taste, and of the 14g of fat per serving, 13g are mono and poly fats. Also, I realized that the olive oil I'm using is the extra virgin kind that my uncle gets from italy, so it is far from tasteless, it actually has quite a heavy flavor to it. I just put canola oil in a shake and it wasnt bad, it just has a little different feeling sitting in my stomach, which I can get used to. Also, should I cut out natty pb?

[adidamps2]

can you get coconut oil at like walmart? what do you think about canola oil, it has like no taste, and of the 14g of fat per serving, 13g are mono and poly fats. Also, I realized that the olive oil I'm using is the extra virgin kind that my uncle gets from italy, so it is far from tasteless, it actually has quite a heavy flavor to it. I just put canola oil in a shake and it wasnt bad, it just has a little different feeling sitting in my stomach, which I can get used to. Also, should I cut out natty pb?

i owuldnt use canola oil...i dont know anything about it honestly.
and i use either extra or extra extra virgin olive oil, so dont sweat it. if olive oil is too nasty try safflower oil.

and yes most commercial stores carry coconut oil. if not just check your local health store or google for it.

i prefer almonds over PB, but its due to personal reasons over anything else. if it fits in your macro scheme stick with it.

[adidamps2]

That's exactly what I was going to anticipate. I figured it would be a protein shake I could eat with a spoon, LOL.

no the rest of the shake should be fine, its just the coconut oil its self that clumps back up on itself, in mixed sizes in the shake. then you stuck iwth what looks like "glue" clumps at the bottom of your shaker cup.

[ShaqFu]

yo guys, krazy you said a few posts back that cooking with olive oil isn't healthy. WHAT?! howd u come up with that? Thanks,
ShaqFu

[krazyassmexican]

yo guys, krazy you said a few posts back that cooking with olive oil isn't healthy. WHAT?! howd u come up with that? Thanks,
ShaqFu

it has been discused on this forvm a lot
OX and DAVE PALUMBO
agree with that statement
in my understanding

the smoking point of the olive oil is too low
and if you cook it it turns bad

[brandona]

it has been discused on this forvm a lot
OX and DAVE PALUMBO
agree with that statement
in my understanding

the smoking point of the olive oil is too low
and if you cook it it turns bad

Right, when you get it too hot, near or over it's smoke point, it loose the good olive oil propeties and is no better than veggie oil...right?

-B

[Wasteland]

yo guys, krazy you said a few posts back that cooking with olive oil isn't healthy. WHAT?! howd u come up with that? Thanks,
ShaqFu

Here's a good thread that talks about oils and cooking: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=6539&highlight=oils+cooking

[Wasteland]

the smoking point of the olive oil is too low
and if you cook it it turns bad

Depends on the type of olive oil.

[Wasteland]

Right, when you get it too hot, near or over it's smoke point, it loose the good olive oil propeties and is no better than veggie oil...right?

-B

Again, depends on the type of cooking (heat) and the type of olive oil. Let's not get crazy here and start a stampede.

[krazyassmexican]

Depends on the type of olive oil.

ox said in the muscle meals video
that if you really needed to cook with that shit then to use regular olive oil

in my case i stick with pam or MAC NUT oil

[Wasteland]

ox said in the muscle meals video
that if you really needed to cook with that shit then to use regular olive oil

in my case i stick with pam or MAC NUT oil

Good advice, that. Don't use the expensive extra virgin olive oil for cooking. Use this stuff for dressings and the like.

[brandona]

Again, depends on the type of cooking (heat) and the type of olive oil. Let's not get crazy here and start a stampede.

I cook with it, over a hot gas flame...I dont deep fry with it...but I am a powerlifter that hates scrubbing pans...hahahah....no really, i just use a bit to sear the fish and what not....I cant find mac nut or coconut oil here in town...bummin...oh well...

-B

[Wasteland]

I cook with it, over a hot gas flame...I dont deep fry with it...but I am a powerlifter that hates scrubbing pans...hahahah....no really, i just use a bit to sear the fish and what not....I cant find mac nut or coconut oil here in town...bummin...oh well...

-B

No? Too bad. I've been cooking a lot with coconut oil lately, and it's pretty awesome.

[brandona]

No? Too bad. I've been cooking a lot with coconut oil lately, and it's pretty awesome.

I have tried all the health food stores, major chains, all that..nothing...there is a "fine" foods store that probley has it, just have to get up there...olive oil in my shakes is ok, but to be honest, I am not really big on the flavor....

-B

[krazyassmexican]

brandon, you can find mac nut oil online

[brandona]

brandon, you can find mac nut oil online

Yea, worry about shipping glass bottles like that...worry about the Ace Ventura factor...hahaha....

-B

[krazyassmexican]

Yea, worry about shipping glass bottles like that...worry about the Ace Ventura factor...hahaha....

-B

i feel you bro

[Thug9]

what staks can be used on the keto diet other than cuts, nitro, pump?? would mstak or stak2 be anything positive or even test???

[anml]

so i have been on keto for like 2 and half weeks and have been full al the time and cant get my food down. i m eating wat i used to eat when i was bulking(protein- carbs+fat) any idea. thanks.

ps when i was bulking i could get my food downand now that i eat less it will not go down.
i know im not eating to much cause im still loseing weight.

[Maharg]

You say you are eating carbs on Keto? first things first if that is right. Stop eating carbs! Keto is where your body use's stored fats as fuel and if you are eating carbs, your body uses that to run and not the fat.

[krazyassmexican]

You say you are eating carbs on Keto? first things first if that is right. Stop eating carbs! Keto is where your body use's stored fats as fuel and if you are eating carbs, your body uses that to run and not the fat.

x2

[brutal]

i think he said he's eating the same thing excluding carbs (protein-carbs+fat)

can you put up an example of your diet so we can see what you're eating/what times?

[Renji007]

What are consuming then? I mean you can have a bunch of good stuff on keto, like peanut butter and fish, chicken, beef, I don't see how the food wouldn't go down just because of carbs absence from your diet bro.

[mustgetbig]

even if you are eating carbs if your losing weight then stick with it. its obviously working for you try some new foods maybe i know after i eat the same thing for a while it actually gets very hard for me to eat it. pce bro .

[Themostocles]

Actually I have same problem. I get full faster, and stay full longer. Same activity level, same time between meals, hell, basically the same meals without carbs. But by meal five, the one just before I workout , I can only get about half of it down before my stomach starts spasming. Water helps some, but I don't have any real helpful suggestions. Try spacing out your meals a little more, or smaller portions... -T.

[dclutter1]

I assume the OP is saying protein -(minus) carbs + fat.

I have the same thing though, by my third or fourth meal I'm having to choke it down. Sometimes even my first meal starts making my stomach feel crappy (like today, the eggs and sausage just aren't sitting right). That's the way it's always been for me when I've done keto.

[anml]

i think he said he's eating the same thing excluding carbs (protein-carbs+fat)

can you put up an example of your diet so we can see what you're eating/what times?

for EX my second meal when bulking was at 4 whole eggs+ 4oz of ground beef and like 40 grams of carbs. on keto i took out the 40 grams of carbs and still had to take down the protein cause i could not get it down so now im at 2 whole eggs and 4 oz ground beef. and my chicken was at 11.5oz+ carbs(40oz) on bulk so i took out the carbs for keto. and could not get it down and now its like 9oz wich is still hard to get down. i know its not to much food cause im still loseing weight.

ps cheat meal: how much is over doing it. my last cheat meal i had like 100 grams of carbs.

[Thug9]

bump^^^

[simpleguy]

what staks can be used on the keto diet other than cuts, nitro, pump?? would mstak or stak2 be anything positive or even test???

bump^^^

check this out http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=12991

[krazyassmexican]

I am on a zero carb-high fat-high protein diet(As OX suggests). I'm still steadily losing 1-1.5lbs per week.

ox and palumbo's diet is high protein moderate healthy fats and zero carbs

[Thug9]

check this out http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=12991

thanx, you da man!

[anml]

iv been on keto for some time now and had a ? about the cheat meal. im eating half a digorno pizza with added beef and cheese chips. is this to much.

[Pizzalamp]

iv been on keto for some time now and had a ? about the cheat meal. im eating half a digorno pizza with added beef and cheese chips. is this to much.

just cheat and enjoy!
Dont worry about counting carbs.

i could never eat just half lol

[Mizzarler]

dude im cutting righ