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cable
01-31-07, 9:54 pm
Just outta curiosity if someone were to go into overtraining is it like a full body effect? or would it only effect certain areas of the body?

Arbalest
01-31-07, 10:39 pm
Overtraining is a neuro-endocrine disorder... which is a whole body system, just like the Central Nervous System. Its a scientific term which simply means, the body is unable to repair the microtears as fast your body normally could.

So, Yes it affects your whole body.

CanadianJMG
01-31-07, 10:41 pm
Overtraining definitly kills your whole body...and mind. You won't be lifting as much (or as much as your goals) but more then that you will feel exhausted in everything that you do, EVERYTHING!! Overtraining is awful and do everything to stay away from it. Keep lifting hard brother!!

Berserker
02-01-07, 7:32 am
Dont mistake overtrainning for lack of mental willingness.

To many pussies hide behind the big word in order to skimp out on a lift day.

xman
02-01-07, 5:05 pm
Arbalest knows his stuff... hes right on it all the way bro.

bovat
02-03-07, 9:34 pm
if i were to overtrain a bodypart, what would be the consequences from small to very big problems. im thinking of doing mountsainttraps austrian blitz workout for my chest, but really don't want to tear a muscle or have to have surgery afterwards.

Joe D'Amato
02-04-07, 3:47 pm
How can you tell if you are over training? Also is overtraining as bad as they say it is?

hjayss
02-09-07, 8:13 am
Are You Overtraining?

So what exactly does "overtraining" mean, and how does it happen? Simply put, overtraining is a state your body enters into when the workload you subject it to is greater than the body's recovery capacity. Typically, your body is trained too often and/or with too much intensity, and not given enough rest to fully recuperate and rebuild. Overtraining can result in lowered testosterone levels as well as a lower ratio of testosterone to cortisol, which can leave your body in a state of zero-growth that must be corrected immediately.


What also happens from overtraining is that your central nervous system (located in the brain and spinal column) becomes overtaxed, especially when you train to (and past) failure regularly. The nervous system is responsible for generating the impulses that cause your muscles to contract. When training to failure on a consistent basis without allowing for optimal recuperation, the central nervous system will inhibit its own output to help protect itself. The result is a decrease in neural drive, causing fatigue and a decrease in focus and motivation.

To recap, many trainees believe they can train just about every single day with the same volume and intensity in every session. They later realize they cannot, and their bodies exhibit several undesirable symptoms.
There are many warning signs of overtraining. While one or a few of them might not necessarily mean you're overtrained (consult your doctor as illness might be the culprit), if several of these 17 symptoms appear consistently during or after a series of hard workouts, it might spell trouble. They are as follows:
•Persistent soreness and stiffness in the muscles, tendons, and joints •Constipation or diarrhea •Soft, spongy-feeling muscles
•A loss of weight (often muscle) •Swelling of the armpits, groin, and lymph nodes which are in the neck) •An elevated resting heart rate
•Headaches •Loss of libido •Fatigue, sluggishness, and heavy-leggedness
•A lack of a pump during your workouts (overtraining causes the nervous system to stop pumping blood into the capillaries) •An obvious loss of muscle size, and/or muscles appearing smoothed out and soft •A general lack of motivation towards training
•Loss of appetite •Mood changes •A weakened immune system, leading possibly to illness
•Nervousness and difficulty relaxing •Impaired coordination

Do these symptoms seem to describe your current state? If so, and the culprit is overtraining, you must take action right away. And the best advice for an overtrainer? Do nothing ... sort of!

The ironic thing about overtraining is that well-intentioned but misguided athletes see themselves shrinking and mistakenly believe they just have to work harder to make gains. Unfortunately, they merely compound their problems and end up losing even more size. In this macho age in which guys are urged to tough it out, you need to have the good sense to recognize overtraining and the courage to take time away from the gym to rest.

How much time should you take off from your training? Simple – as long as your body needs. In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate! Be warned: If you train a body part with maximum intensity and poundages, and recruit as many muscle fibers as possible, it could take 5 to 10 days to fully heal!

Sleep is your ally for recovery and safeguarding against overtraining. It might sound like a cliché, but eight hours is a good goal to strive for under normal circumstances. However, if you are training particularly hard (e.g., for a competition), or you engage in extra physical activity, or you have added stress in your life (e.g., from your job or relationships), you might require up to 10 hours or more of uninterrupted sleep. What's more, you'll need good-quality sleep over a period of time. Catching up on sleep on the weekends helps, but isn't as effective as regular nightly sleep.

© 2007 Muscletech. All rights reserved.

ThickasabricK
02-09-07, 8:38 am
wow , that was an exellent post , pin this shit .

Millhouse
02-09-07, 9:26 am
I agree with Thick

Joe D'Amato
02-09-07, 10:18 am
GREAT post. many thanks i posted asking about over training a wile back and i didn't get an answer like this. But how can u tell your getting a good workout and still not over training beacuse i dont feel that i have a good workout untill my veins are huge my muscles stick out further than ever and they are to soar to do any more. But when doing this some of them symptoms do occur so i should probably lower the intesity level every other day or maybe not even workout out on tuesday thursday and saturday. i workout all 5 weekdays and some sundays. what do u guys think?

Big Rich
02-09-07, 10:48 am
I have to disagree almost 100% with this info...

My grandfather was a farmer and one of the biggest, strongest & hardest working mofo's on the planet - He never complained that he was over-working anything on his body.

Some of the statements are laughable: "In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate!"

And the symptom list is way to broad to diagnose anything - Please reread and reconsider this info.

cable
02-09-07, 1:47 pm
I have to disagree almost 100% with this info...

My grandfather was a farmer and one of the biggest, strongest & hardest working mofo's on the planet - He never complained that he was over-working anything on his body.

Some of the statements are laughable: "In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate!"

And the symptom list is way to broad to diagnose anything - Please reread and reconsider this info.

Note:
-your grandfather was not pushing himself to failure everyday, also he was probably getting ~10hrs of sleep a night to help him recouperate.

-when an athlete has a major tear in his ACL he can be in rehab for a very long period of time before he is able to stress it again. What makes you think your nervous system is any different?

-Overtraining is very hard to diagnose which is why many ppl can fall into it and not even know it. These seem to be more like guidelines before a more accurate diagnosis can be made.
*****************************************

great post, any references?

Big Rich
02-09-07, 3:29 pm
Cable -- I hear what you're saying... But I still disagree with the content.
(I was using my grandfather as an example of someone that works HARD ALL DAY - The same could be said of a professional athlete, or a soldier)

The "symptoms" outlined in this article could easily be for the common cold!

The body recognizes, adapts, and repairs itself very efficiently if given enough fuel and rest.
Period.

Sorry, but I still think a lot of the article is bs.

k1usa
02-09-07, 4:02 pm
I agree 100% with you...I feel the results of over training at times...its a real thing...I blast through it but it has its wrath on me at times.....I appreciate the heads up...great article...and its just another example of the great folks on this forum...we are a great brotherhood

Gas Can
02-09-07, 4:22 pm
iam agreeing with big rich check the info make sure its even legit

Kiwi129
02-09-07, 7:55 pm
I think this post is going to make a lot of people paranoid. Lots of guys have stiff joints and tendons year round, etc. I think the best indicator of overtraining is (if you're bulking) just a halt to your progress. Can't lift the weights anymore, no growth, no energy. I also think though, that unless you're doing some outrageous program, if you're bulking and eating a ton of food and staying away from too much failure... you won't overtrain.

LuvsThePain
02-09-07, 8:25 pm
I have to disagree almost 100% with this info...

My grandfather was a farmer and one of the biggest, strongest & hardest working mofo's on the planet - He never complained that he was over-working anything on his body.

Some of the statements are laughable: "In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate!"

And the symptom list is way to broad to diagnose anything - Please reread and reconsider this info.


Big R.... You've obviously never overtrained before. Keep in mind that your gramps was a farmer and NOT a bodybuilder.

I personally have overtrained myself and the symptoms were identical. I was in the gym atleast 2 hours a day and killing myself. I was training each body part 3 times a week for that duration! Sometimes twice a day. I was never not sore, my gains stopped dead and my muscles were beginning to deteriorate. I was a grumpy ass mother fucker, and was frequently sick. Not to mention that my strength seemed to lessen each week. I kept thinking that the reason I wasn't getting bigger was because I wasn't training hard enough.
The case was opposite, I wasn't allowing my body to recover. After I switched things up and allowed for more recovery my body's growth jumped into high gear. I gained 8 pounds of muscle in a matter of months and I haven't stopped growing.

I'm a firm believer that overtraining is possible since I've experienced it. So please don't try and tell me that there's no such thing as overtraining.

karmazon
02-09-07, 8:49 pm
Overtraining is overrated, period.

MassManiac
02-09-07, 9:08 pm
Overtraining is overrated, period.


I gotta disagree with ya here bro. If overtraining is overrated, then why bother with splits? Why not just hammer the same muscle groups for hours at a time, day in and out. Overtraining can be very detrimental to one's growth. With that said, I'd say that overtraining is misunderstood. Since each person is different, it's hard to determine what "too much" is. Like everything else in this sport, ya gotta play around and switch things up in order to find out. Problem is, either people think they're overtraining, when in reality they're not even pushing their limits (which I think is what a lot of you are trying to get at), or people just lift foolishly, not allowing for proper recovery. I'd say that you have to listen to your body, play it smart, and understand when intense training is beneficial and when it is detrimental.

Alivewhenimdead
02-09-07, 9:12 pm
This morning we (battalion) did a 6 mile run at an increase of 2200 feet. The run was a smoker and the only time I had to get into the gym today was about 4 hours after the run. My question is if that gap is too short and creates a negative side effect on lifting. I actually had a great workout (back and biceps) but am utterly wiped out now.

Is this type of training bad or just a lot of calories getting burnt up?

LuvsThePain
02-09-07, 9:13 pm
We need this pinned up on the sticky and get the pros involved in this one.

Im just sayin I listened to my body and gave myself more recovery, and I received large gains almost instantly. Overrated? Alright then, I wanna see you train 7 days a week for 3 hours at a time intense going to failure training with no more than 30 seconds rest between sets. Give yourself a month and tell me that you're not overtraining.

Kiwi129
02-09-07, 9:29 pm
I have to admit, training like that would be fun for like a day. Just blast every muscle group for like a few hours and rest a week before training again. It would be fun to get like a huge, full body pump going. But yea that's horrible if you keep doing it.

And... Did karmazon say it doesn't exist? No... he said it's overrated. He means the same thing I said before (I actually got it FROM him...): if you're eating properly, resting a good 3-4 days minimum between muscle groups, resting at least 7-8 hours a night, and not on some insane workout regimen like luvsthepain was on... overtraining isn't something to be scared of. He means people panic about it way too much.

Last week I trained full on while eating normal (less than I should've been). I did a squat, bench, military, dips workout on monday and friday and a deadlift, rows, chins, curls workout on wednesday and did 4 sets of 6 for all the big compounds and was scared of overtraining. There was no need to be.

Correct me if I'm wrong karmazon.

LuvsThePain
02-09-07, 9:43 pm
I just want people to acknowledge that you can overtrain your body no matter how much food or rest you're getting. Don't be in denial. I agree that a lot of people freak out about it too much. Some have to go to extreme lengths to over train, "like i did a few years back". But for some it's a little easier to fall into it.

By the way: I'm not training stupid anymore. Thank God!

Bottom line is, it's imperative to listen to your body. It'll tell you when you need to back off and when you need to kick training into a higher gear.

I'm glad this was brought up. It's obvious that many of us have different views on this.

Big Jawn
02-09-07, 9:47 pm
hjayss,

Did you write this yourself? It doesn't look like it. Cite your sources, provide an author name and a link to the article.

Thanks,

Big Jawn

HAWK
02-09-07, 9:52 pm
[QUOTE=Big Rich;24636]
The body recognizes, adapts, and repairs itself very efficiently if given enough fuel and rest.
Period.
QUOTE]

Here's where you hit the nail on the head. "The body recognizes, adapts, and repairs itself very efficiently IF GIVEN ENOUGH FUEL AND REST". The fact is, when you're over training, its not because of the lifting of the weights. It's because it is physically impossible to recover from workouts like that (hitting body parts 3 times a week, lifting for 2.5 hrs, etc.). You gotta be eating like 10,000 calories and shitshitshitshitloads of carbs and protein. This is why overtraining happens. If it was possible to eat that many cals a day, and train like that...then proceed to grow faster than weeds, don't you think us Animals would all do it? Fact is, overtraining is real. Halted progress and being sluggish should be huge indicators.

karmazon
02-09-07, 10:00 pm
And... Did karmazon say it doesn't exist? No... he said it's overrated. He means the same thing I said before (I actually got it FROM him...): if you're eating properly, resting a good 3-4 days minimum between muscle groups, resting at least 7-8 hours a night, and not on some insane workout regimen like luvsthepain was on... overtraining isn't something to be scared of. He means people panic about it way too much.

Last week I trained full on while eating normal (less than I should've been). I did a squat, bench, military, dips workout on monday and friday and a deadlift, rows, chins, curls workout on wednesday and did 4 sets of 6 for all the big compounds and was scared of overtraining. There was no need to be.

Correct me if I'm wrong karmazon.

That's correct, this is exactly what I've been trying to say.

karmazon
02-09-07, 10:05 pm
I actually had a great workout (back and biceps) but am utterly wiped out now.

There is your answer...listen to your body. If you had a great workout than you had a great workout. If this was something bad, you'd have a bad workout.

remixpaul
02-09-07, 11:27 pm
would u consider training each bodypart twice a week overtraiign?

7Forty7
02-09-07, 11:34 pm
Yep, I feel people are far too quick to call overtraining. The run didn't stress any of the muscle groups you were hitting in the gym that day, so apart from potential low energy in the gym (which it sounds like you didn't have), it's no problem. I think most overtraining problems come down to repeatedly not allowing a muscle group time to rest before smashing it again. Such as the young guy hitting chest hard 3 times a week. Or trying to copy Arnold and doing 70-set leg days. Or repeatedly training when your body is telling you it needs to rest.

karmazon
02-09-07, 11:50 pm
would u consider training each bodypart twice a week overtraiign?

If it works for you and you're feeling fine and gaining muscle, then not. If you have all or most of the symptoms from the original post, then yes. It all comes down to how your body responds to training, everyone is different.

HAWK
02-09-07, 11:54 pm
would u consider training each bodypart twice a week overtraiign?

Nah, man. Karmazon got it right. If it works, fuck it, do it. Just make sure you're able to recover with proper nutrition and rest.

widdlewade44
02-10-07, 12:00 am
This morning we (battalion) did a 6 mile run at an increase of 2200 feet. The run was a smoker and the only time I had to get into the gym today was about 4 hours after the run. My question is if that gap is too short and creates a negative side effect on lifting. I actually had a great workout (back and biceps) but am utterly wiped out now.

Is this type of training bad or just a lot of calories getting burnt up?

You had a great w/o so there's your answer. You'll certainly be called upon to fulfill high physically demanding ops, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war. Kick it and take names dude! Eat up to fulfill those burnt calories. Semper Fi.

Kevin
widdlewade44
Sgt '88-'93
USMC

hjayss
02-10-07, 4:43 am
I have to disagree almost 100% with this info...

My grandfather was a farmer and one of the biggest, strongest & hardest working mofo's on the planet - He never complained that he was over-working anything on his body.

Some of the statements are laughable: "In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate!"

And the symptom list is way to broad to diagnose anything - Please reread and reconsider this info.

BIG MONEY RICH. I put this hear for the hard gainers not the vet the people who are starting out and have that question I did this for them. Ihave been lifting a long time of and on I have been reading and compiling from so many books I threw this together in college for a BIOLOGY class and I had the doc on word that I though gwould help when people post web sites/books you guys x them out so I just pasted but the thing did not paste the graphs I had made it turned to little dots in front I do not know how that happened. Ps I got an A.

Lestat
02-10-07, 10:08 am
Big Jawn...i believe this is the source you're looking for. word for word from the site below.


http://www.******.com/TRAINING/OVERTRAINING/index.shtml

The Butcher
02-10-07, 1:15 pm
I have to disagree almost 100% with this info...

My grandfather was a farmer and one of the biggest, strongest & hardest working mofo's on the planet - He never complained that he was over-working anything on his body.

Some of the statements are laughable: "In extreme cases of overtraining, some individuals have had to take up to a full year away from the gym to let their bodies heal and their systems regenerate!"

And the symptom list is way to broad to diagnose anything - Please reread and reconsider this info.



I agree with Rich...I do believe over training is real and does exist but honestly i think 9 out of 10 cases of "over training" are really nothing but lazyness. I hate hearing the term over training, it seems like you hear it more than anything. Almost everything you read about weight training (with exception to the articles on Animalpak, most importantly Machine's article on Dynamic Brutality) is about over training and how "less is more" less sets, less reps, less days in the gym, blah blah blah. FUCK THAT SHIT! I really think there are a lot of people that need to just get the hell off their ass and move some motherfucking weight. I believe your body will grow the best and most efficiently when it HAS to, not when it wants to.

curifer66
02-10-07, 1:59 pm
I think people use the term overtraining to easily. Yes it is possible to overtrain if you you are not eating correctly and you are lifting the same muscle group several times a week. Most people say not to do more than 12-15 sets per body part or you will overtrain. I used to do 12-15 sets per muscle group within an hour. Now looking back that seems pretty lazy to me. I have doubled my sets and included supersets and dropset with almost every set. My size and strength has been increasing faster ever since. "The ones who will push the envelope and meet their destinies are those who can absorb the most pain. It's just that fucking simple, and please don't get bullshitted into believing otherwise." (Machine)

cable
02-10-07, 7:44 pm
BIG MONEY RICH. I put this hear for the hard gainers not the vet the people who are starting out and have that question I did this for them. Ihave been lifting a long time of and on I have been reading and compiling from so many books I threw this together in college for a BIOLOGY class and I had the doc on word that I though gwould help when people post web sites/books you guys x them out so I just pasted but the thing did not paste the graphs I had made it turned to little dots in front I do not know how that happened. Ps I got an A.


Big Jawn...i believe this is the source you're looking for. word for word from the site below.


http://www.******.com/TRAINING/OVERTRAINING/index.shtml

Lestat is right this seems to be the exact same article almost. So you either sold your research to muscle tech or your a liar. I doubt u got an A on this since u would have been expelled for plagiarism instead. I dont mind when ppl copy and paste an article into the forum but when they take credit for the article and it is wholly plagiarized i take offense. Especially because i have to referrence evey freakin thing i write in my papers in university. If your gonna do this post the origional link or referrence it.

Big Jawn
02-11-07, 1:12 am
Lestat is right this seems to be the exact same article almost. So you either sold your research to muscle tech or your a liar. I doubt u got an A on this since u would have been expelled for plagiarism instead. I dont mind when ppl copy and paste an article into the forum but when they take credit for the article and it is wholly plagiarized i take offense. Especially because i have to referrence evey freakin thing i write in my papers in university. If your gonna do this post the origional link or referrence it.

I have edited his post with a link to the article, as well as added the specific copyright info...there was no author listed for the article.

Aengus
02-11-07, 2:25 pm
It really does smell like muscletech info: it is sensationalistic and misleading.


"overtraining" just means that you are not resting enough to repair damage previously done. You don't really need a long list of symptoms to know when you are overtraining. If you can't put up nearly as much weight as you usually do, and are listless in the gym: go take a fucking nap and do something else until you are ready to puke and bleed again. Unless it is contest time...then take a look at yourself in the mirror and re-evaluate how shitty you really feel.

While it is not usually my style to shit on anyone else's parade, I think that anything muscletech says is something that should be considered very critically.

Oh yeah, and don't post without giving credit, that pisses me off.

Aengus
02-11-07, 2:56 pm
If you have to run before your workout, just make sure that you replenish your carbs. Everything else is just your body. Listen to it.

Tron
02-11-07, 6:41 pm
Yep, I feel people are far too quick to call overtraining. The run didn't stress any of the muscle groups you were hitting in the gym that day, so apart from potential low energy in the gym (which it sounds like you didn't have), it's no problem. I think most overtraining problems come down to repeatedly not allowing a muscle group time to rest before smashing it again. Such as the young guy hitting chest hard 3 times a week. Or trying to copy Arnold and doing 70-set leg days. Or repeatedly training when your body is telling you it needs to rest.

I totally agree. People are too worried about overtraining. Yeah, it happens, but like everybody else said, if your body tells you it was good, it was good. No reason to over analyze it. That's all you need to know.

deeder
02-11-07, 7:21 pm
Yeah just like everyone else said, if it was a good workout then it was a good workout. You're right about it burning up a shit-ton of calories but you can fix that just by eating more.

bobbyj654
02-13-07, 1:15 am
hey guys, i gots a question

i was wondering if you guys knew if this would be overtraining

im currently doing a rippetoes program, and it has me squatting 3 times a week,

do you think this would be bad for me and gains?

its mainly a strength program, would squatting 3 times a week have a negative impact on my strength?

Tron
02-13-07, 1:29 am
I heard from somebody who's been in the game for years that when you overtrain, the first sign is the lymph glands (those are the ones under your jaw right?) become tender and swell. Basically, I say just listen to your body. If it keeps hurtin more than necessary, then you probably need more rest. Listen to your body, bud. It never lies.

deeder
02-13-07, 1:49 am
hey guys, i gots a question

i was wondering if you guys knew if this would be overtraining

im currently doing a rippetoes program, and it has me squatting 3 times a week,

do you think this would be bad for me and gains?

its mainly a strength program, would squatting 3 times a week have a negative impact on my strength?

It depends on your body and how long you stay on the program. I'm currently doing Korte's 3x3 and I squat, bench and deadlift 3 days a week. I'm loving it but with 2 weeks left of the volume phase I'm feeling some of the signs of overtraining.

bobbyj654
02-13-07, 2:53 am
ehhh, its mostly my lower back, lemme show you what i do

A= Squat, Bench, Deadlift
B= Squat, Military Press, Barbell Rows from the floor

throw in some dips and pullups too, maybe some bi's and tri, then thats what you got

bobbyj654
02-13-07, 2:53 am
It depends on your body and how long you stay on the program. I'm currently doing Korte's 3x3 and I squat, bench and deadlift 3 days a week. I'm loving it but with 2 weeks left of the volume phase I'm feeling some of the signs of overtraining.

can you show me your program?

WeaponX
02-13-07, 3:41 am
Tron said it the best, listen to your body man. 1 person may be able to lift arms 4 times a week and not feel like they are overtraining, and the next person can only train them 1 day.

You have to know your own body and listen to it, I dont think it gts any more basic than that, sorry that i dont have more information, hope this helps you out some

bobbyj654
02-13-07, 4:05 am
so basically, its ok if my body feels fresh and ok to workout?

because i know that the lower back takes a really long time to recover

deeder
02-13-07, 1:41 pm
can you show me your program?

Check out my journal in the Power Trip section or check out this template:

http://www.saskpowerlifting.ca/training/Korte3x3.xls

I needed a 12 week program so I did (am still doing) two 4 week "volume phases" and 4 weeks of "competition phase" are coming up. I ran this program once before exactly as the template suggests and felt no signs of overtraining at any time.

I expected to get worn out around my 7th or 8th week of the volume training this time around. As long as it doesn't get too bad I should be able to recover quite nicely during the 4 week competition phase.

Curtin190
02-16-07, 6:41 pm
I have a six day split, with one body part a day (chest, back, legs, shoulders,bis, tris) and I generally do 5-6 exercises per part with 4 sets each. By the 6th day I'm usually too beat to do anything, so I was thinking I should switch to a 3-day split. Any suggestions?

BigAnt
02-16-07, 7:07 pm
I have a six day split, with one body part a day (chest, back, legs, shoulders,bis, tris) and I generally do 5-6 exercises per part with 4 sets each. By the 6th day I'm usually too beat to do anything, so I was thinking I should switch to a 3-day split. Any suggestions?

What works for some (6 days in a row, 4 days on 3 off, double splits, 3 days on 2 off) will not work for everybody, YOU have to find out what works best for YOU!

After training Back and legs (two of the largest body parts) if you do your heavy rows, deads, pull ups, more rows, squats, leg presses, leg curls, stiff leg deads and lunges you might need a day off to recuperate. You are at a young age, compared to an old timer like me (I AM 40) I could not train this way and make gains)

#1 what is your diet like?
Pleny of good solid protein carbs and fats?

#2 where is your water intake at?
Muscle contains approximately 75 percent water !

#3 Cardio
are you doing any?

#4 Goals
Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, just keepoing in shape, buff to pick up chicks at the mall (the last on is me all the way) LOL

#5 Supplements
Do you take any?
Not that I push them, but a good multi vitamin-mineral and maybe some protein shakes are always good.

If you seem tired, have some joint pain, no motivation to train, loss of appetite, and have insomina..these are signs of over training!

Please answer the 5 questions above, and we will look into this further..

I hope this helps!

vIShuS
02-16-07, 9:57 pm
well, 6 days a week is pretty crazy (not sayin your training is a waste or terrible idea). you can work it down by putting two bodyparts together such as chest and delts, bi's and tris; back, and legs should be seperate as they require much more attention and work. mabey you could switch it to that if thats any help for ya bro? if you have any questions, just post back. hope everything goes well with the training.

-SiSu

Russian29
02-16-07, 10:27 pm
Well, what works pretty well for me is doing two bodyparts per day, unless they are like abs, calves, or even traps sometimes. When ever I have these in my workout then I just add them and get three bodyparts. This way you'll have more days to rest and not overtrain.
Also, taking some protein right before and after a workout helps me a lot from overtraining. Goodluck with your goals.

JoshLandry
02-16-07, 10:43 pm
ihave done 6 days for a long time and i love it i grow reall well that way. but im alos 23 and take all the right thing for sups all my BCAA;s and protien intake is up and i get plenty of rest that also has a big part of it and my workout are not for the weak at heart check it out if you want

PlacentiaBay
02-16-07, 11:05 pm
I'm the same age as you. I myself workout 4 days a week. For each body part I do aprox. 4 exersizes with 4 working sets not including warm-ups. Which gives me about 16 working sets a workout. I manage to make it through the week even if its on low carb days. Idealy or so I've heard, and it works for me is to do no more then 16 working sets in a workout per body part. This way for me I do enough to throughly tax each muscle group. If I do anymore I feel I am wasting my time.

Curtin190
02-16-07, 11:11 pm
What works for some (6 days in a row, 4 days on 3 off, double splits, 3 days on 2 off) will not work for everybody, YOU have to find out what works best for YOU!

After training Back and legs (two of the largest body parts) if you do your heavy rows, deads, pull ups, more rows, squats, leg presses, leg curls, stiff leg deads and lunges you might need a day off to recuperate. You are at a young age, compared to an old timer like me (I AM 40) I could not train this way and make gains)

#1 what is your diet like?
Pleny of good solid protein carbs and fats?

#2 where is your water intake at?
Muscle contains approximately 75 percent water !

#3 Cardio
are you doing any?

#4 Goals
Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, just keepoing in shape, buff to pick up chicks at the mall (the last on is me all the way) LOL

#5 Supplements
Do you take any?
Not that I push them, but a good multi vitamin-mineral and maybe some protein shakes are always good.

If you seem tired, have some joint pain, no motivation to train, loss of appetite, and have insomina..these are signs of over training!

Please answer the 5 questions above, and we will look into this further..

I hope this helps!


My diet isn't the best cause with school and everything its hard to put the time in to make a quality meal. When I do have the time its usually pasta w/ sauce and chicken etc. I do take whey protein after I lift and sometimes in the evening, I've also been cycling MStak and I take Animal pump and pak. I try to drink around 4 liters of water a day. As for cardio, I can't remember the last time I ran more than half a mile; I jut have no motivation to do it, I've gotta start though. As for goals, pickin up chicks at the mall would be nice :) but seriously I'm, at this moment 190 lbsat around 10-12% bf (guess) I wanna get to around 200 - 210 and then start cutting. Also, I wanna improve my strength significantly, I've been stuck on 275 for one or two reps on bench for the last two months and its been pissing me off. Thanks for all of the replies guys, its hard to get proper and accurate advice but you guys at the forum really help.

One more thing, would it be a good idea to take a shake like muscle milk before sleep? If im not wrong it has a lot of micellar proteins and such, but its also high in saturated fat.

JoshLandry
02-16-07, 11:12 pm
i work out 1 body part a day though except on arms day. sat is like a second trap and forearm fuck off day. but i sometimes do a shit load of exercises.

LuvsThePain
02-17-07, 12:26 am
I do 1 body part a day during a 5 day split. Like the pros said though, you have to find what works for you even if that means some trial and error runs. What works for some might not work for you. As far as overtraining goes, I don't know what kind of intensity you're keeping in the gym. Bottom line is, you have to listen to your body. It'll tell you if you're overtrained or not. If you're working your ass off like most of us on here, you better down a lot of propper foods and give your body enough rest to recover.

hjayss
02-17-07, 4:33 am
I gotta disagree with ya here bro. If overtraining is overrated, then why bother with splits? Why not just hammer the same muscle groups for hours at a time, day in and out. Overtraining can be very detrimental to one's growth. With that said, I'd say that overtraining is misunderstood. Since each person is different, it's hard to determine what "too much" is. Like everything else in this sport, ya gotta play around and switch things up in order to find out. Problem is, either people think they're overtraining, when in reality they're not even pushing their limits (which I think is what a lot of you are trying to get at), or people just lift foolishly, not allowing for proper recovery. I'd say that you have to listen to your body, play it smart, and understand when intense training is beneficial and when it is detrimental.

Simple simple simple sure a lumberjack, or a construction worker man the first time youo jackhammer you shit is rocking but just like training your body will get use to the same shit and addapt.

Maccabee
02-17-07, 10:08 pm
It sounds like you need more days off. So switch to a 2 on,1 off, 2on, 2 off routine. You will workout just as hard, but with more rest. Rest=Growth.

grissinger
02-20-07, 3:31 pm
If I am reading what you are saying correctly you are WAY overtraining. Five to six exercises 4 sets each per body part, 20-24 sets per body part? That is almost twice as much as you need. You sound motivated, at least in regards to lifting. Not to bust your chops but eating good is no harder then eating crappy. It might not taste as good but you have to sacrifice if you want to pick up the chicks at the mall. Not having time to plan meals is an excuse. Cans of tuna and protein shakes will suffice for the meals you can't plan. Good luck

Fullblownchaos22
02-20-07, 4:05 pm
if you are doing heavy weights i would say you might be over training but then again i would also say it depends on the body. I only take sundays off but usually do 2 hard days of lifting and then throw in a day of cardio. My body also seems to rejuvinate(sp?) pretty fast though and i imagine with age i will have to slow this down a bit but for now it is working great.

pdiesel
02-20-07, 4:18 pm
try hitting arms together..besides that it looks pretty good..i mean you are only doing 5-6 sets per bodypart? make sure you are sleeping enough and maybe throw in a day off after day 2 of training (midweek)

Primal
02-20-07, 4:43 pm
all i can say is put bis and tris together, and dont do 4 sets for 4 exercises, bis and tris are such small muscles they dont need that much, just do like one core lift, like dumbell curls for 4-5 sets, and tri pd for 4-5 sets, and then do like one or two other exercises for each bi and tri for 2-3 sets

also by combining bi and tri, u get an extra day off

cuts280
02-20-07, 9:59 pm
Here is what i suggest :

Start with a three day split


Day 1 Chest / Shoulders / Triceps

1 Decline Dumbell/Barbell press
2 Incline Dumbell/Barbell press

1 Military Press
2 Wide Grip Upright rows

1 Decline Close Grip Bench Press
2 Parallel Bar Dips

Day 3 Legs

1 Squats
2 Lunges
3 Stiff Leg Deads
4 Calf Raises

Day 5 Back / Biceps

1 Barbell Rows
2 Lat Pulldowns
3 Deadlifts.

This routine can be done on Mon/Wed/Fri or Tue/Thu/Sat.

It is a very simple and basic routine but the key here is progressive overload, increasing the poundages consistently, striving to be strong. Mastering the form and thus building a strong foundation. Make sure you support that by eating good quality food like red meat, chicken breasts, eggwhites, pasta, potatoes, brown rice, broccoli etc. Depending on your metabolism and structure you can add 30 mins of brisk walking or so on the off days. Good luck.

BigAnt
02-21-07, 12:28 am
Here is what i suggest :

Start with a three day split


Day 1 Chest / Shoulders / Triceps

1 Decline Dumbell/Barbell press
2 Incline Dumbell/Barbell press

1 Military Press
2 Wide Grip Upright rows

1 Decline Close Grip Bench Press
2 Parallel Bar Dips

Day 3 Legs

1 Squats
2 Lunges
3 Stiff Leg Deads
4 Calf Raises

Day 5 Back / Biceps

1 Barbell Rows
2 Lat Pulldowns
3 Deadlifts.

This routine can be done on Mon/Wed/Fri or Tue/Thu/Sat.

It is a very simple and basic routine but the key here is progressive overload, increasing the poundages consistently, striving to be strong. Mastering the form and thus building a strong foundation. Make sure you support that by eating good quality food like red meat, chicken breasts, eggwhites, pasta, potatoes, brown rice, broccoli etc. Depending on your metabolism and structure you can add 30 mins of brisk walking or so on the off days. Good luck.


no direct bicep work on day#5

and why brown rice instead of white?

cuts280
02-22-07, 7:22 am
Oops!! I missed out on the biceps.

Biceps

1) Barbell Curls
2) Hammer Curls

As far as brown rice is concerned : Personal Preference.

CitadelArmyJAG
02-22-07, 1:39 pm
Different people can tell you if they "think" you might be overtraining, but you just have to listen to your body.

To you feel tired and worn down?

Is recovery taking longer than it should?

Are your lifts static of dynamic? Are you progressing consistantly or are you stagnating and/or regressing.

Are you having trouble getting a good nights sleep, and/or feeling tired all throughout the day?

Do you have pain, joint discomfort, etc.

If everything is feeling right and you are making progress then drive on!

J.a.H.pocalypse
03-13-07, 4:22 pm
in my opinion there is no such thing as overtraining there is only under resting and under eating

IntensityJT
03-13-07, 4:26 pm
i agree with the others--did you post this yourself? if not, better cite some sources, good post though

J.a.H.pocalypse
03-13-07, 6:39 pm
Straight from MACHINE's life is a freak show

March 20: “24 Hour Living”
Are there not 24 hours in a day? If in fact we live in the 24 hour day, then why don’t we schedule our lives and meals and work days accordingly? I have lived the 24 hour day for many years now and I think my productivity has been greatly increased because of it.

Ben Franklin said, “Never let the sun rise to find you sleeping the day away.” I agree. I rise at 3:30 am daily. My morning workout is my first phase of the day. So to anyone listening and thinking, “What does this mean?”, it means that while I don’t get 8 hours of sleep a night, I do get to eat twice before 7:00 am. That is why I don’t mind living the 24 hour lifestyle, I can keep my muscles flushed with fresh nutrients and ultimately I can grow bigger than most people living so-called normal lives.

Many people make a case for the body of a performance athlete needing 10 hours of sleep daily to function at optimal levels. I don’t believe this theory because the fundamental basis for all life as we have come to understand it is the theory of adaptation. We adapt to every element that seeks to restrain our development—it is the premise which nature is founded upon.

so in the end it's all about adaptation and how u adapt urself to ur surroundings.....

Padre
03-13-07, 6:48 pm
I would LOVE 10 hours straight sleep....hell even 8 hours sleep....6 hours..a freaking nap.....

I would do anything for just regular sleep....



My wife and I have a newborn....6 weeks old daughter.

Machine
03-15-07, 3:53 pm
I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE

brandonA
03-15-07, 4:21 pm
I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE



You are one intense mother........what's that line from little giants....football is 98% physical and 10% mental....or something like that.....overthinking kills brain cells...

-B

T_N_Muscle
03-15-07, 4:24 pm
RIGHT ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE

jac71
03-15-07, 4:38 pm
I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE

Shit I just got back from the gym and after reading this I wanna go back!!

As always "Machine" you inspiration and no bullshit attitude makes your point loud and clear!!

ironshaolin
03-15-07, 5:40 pm
Well, this is just why I think its a good idea to have a "light week" or 2 after bouts of intense training. If you look at most pro's, getting ready for a contest there's lots of supersets, dropsets, forced reps, etc. being utilized. These types of intensity are great, but if used too much can lead to overtraining. Alot of pros take a week off after a comp, or go to doing lighter, full body workouts 3 days a week to recover. I think if you spend a month doing dropsets and rack runs on your arms, the next month you should just try and do straight sets to let it recover. I dunno about having to take a year off, tho. A blown rotator is more of an injury than overtraining. Just think about Arnold. He used to work out twice a day, blasting EVERY muscle 3 times a week. If you would've told him he was overtraining, he would've laughed in your face. Just don't workout if your muscles are still sore. If your chest is still sore, don't do it again until it feels better.

IronLeague
03-16-07, 12:42 am
I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE


Hey Motherfucker... Why put it off anymore? It's time you ran for President..
You could make all this crybaby bullshit punishable by death. I watch the world being taken over by this calibur of person DAILY.. I think I'm going fucking insane.....it's like aliens came down while we were sleeping and stole everyones fucking nut sacks..guess they missed my shit hole apartment.

Respect,
IronLeague

dyskee
04-23-07, 11:09 am
hi animals i have a book by the yukon hercules "dennis b weis" it's called massive muscle pumping it has a workout and a mega calorie diet, i wanna try it but i fear that it could cause over training, here is the workout so i need ur comments:
it is a 21 day cycle
3 x 3 x 3 Exercise System-A Quick Review


Monday
Supine (flat) barbell bench press – Using a barbell (though sometimes he used
dumbbells) he would do one set each of 15, 10, 8, 4 and 1 rep(s), then rests for
5 minutes. Next were 10 power sets of 5 to 6 reps each. When these were
completed he would take another short rest and would finish up with one set
each of 10, 15 and 20 post-fatigue reps.
Leg press – He would do one set each of 30, 20, 15 and 10 maxi-pump reps,
after which he did 10 hard work sets of 15 reps each.
On these (ten hard work) sets in particular he would use a Five “up” and Five
“down” strategy where he would “up” the poundage for each of the first five
sets and then “down” on the remaining five.
He finished off his Leg press program with two quick pump-out sets of 20 and
30 reps. The last two pump sets for this and other exercises were done with light
weights and helped to relieve the congestion of the muscles and restore normal
circulation. This hastened recuperation and muscle growth.
“Rader high chest pull” – Perform as described on p. 11.
Lat machine pull-down – Richard bombed his lats, doing one set each of 25,
20, 15, 12 and 10 maxi-pump reps. These were followed up with a 12-set blitz
of 10 reps each. He then finished off with a pump-out set of 15 to 25 reps.

Wednesday
Barbell press behind neck – He began by performing one set each of 15, 10
and 8 repetitions and then, after a rest, he got into the serous muscle growth by
attacking his delts with 10 brutally hard power sets of 6 full reps each,
finishing up with a final blitz set of 25 lightweight reps.
Barbell shoulder shrug –He performed one pre-fatigue set each of 20 and 15
reps then it was on to 8 sets of 10 to 12 muscle-searing reps, finishing off with
a lightweight flush set of 15 to 20 reps.
Machine leg extension – Richard began the Leg extensions with a set of 25
reps, then 20 reps followed by 6 sets of 15 reps each, and then a pump set of
20 and one of 30 reps.
Machine leg curl – On this exercise one set each of 30, 20 and 15 reps, then 6
sets of 10 to 12 reps were performed, followed by a final 20-to-30-rep set.

Friday
Neck extension and flexion –10 sets of 20 reps each.
Supine close-grip triceps press –One set each of 20, 15 and 10, 6, 3 and 1
rep(s) were completed to warm-up the triceps thoroughly. This was followed up
by 11 sets of 5 or 6 power reps and then he finished off with a 20-rep pump
set.
Anton barbell curl –He used the same sets and reps as in the triceps extension
exercise. One set each of 20, 15 and 10, 6, 3 and 1 rep(s) were completed and
this was followed up by 11 sets of 5 or 6 power reps and finishes off with a 20-
rep pump set.
Back hinge deadlift – He did one set each of 20, 12, 8, 4, 1, 5, 10 and 15 reps.
Donkey calf raise – He begins with a set of 30 maxi-pump reps. Richard
rested for a minute between sets then continued his journey into the pain zone by
doing one set each of 20, 12, 15, 20 and 30 maxi-pump reps.

i wanna try it because am still 18 with test and hgh flooding my system and i should be able to recover easily also i have added glutamine, real gains , and mstack for this routine to aid in recovery.

ghost
04-23-07, 11:15 am
meh, try it out, see how your body responds to it...if anything else, it will be a killer workout and great pumps.

widdlewade44
04-23-07, 11:21 am
Looks worthy to try out. There's plenty of rest available (off days) so hit hard, really hard and eat up. Good luck and let us know how it goes, peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44

born0withno0soul
04-23-07, 6:15 pm
give it a shot man, we cant tell you if something will strain your body too much. everybody is different. what may overtrain me, may not overtrain you. just be careful and listen to your body.

dyskee
04-23-07, 6:18 pm
thnx brothers iam goin to start it next week so i will be taking before and after pictures

ANewBreed
04-24-07, 2:45 am
whenever youre worried about overtraining two simple cures: rest and diet. Eat like an animal, but more like a starved one that hasnt eaten in 3 days (do that every 2 hours lol). And get 8-9 hours of uninterupted sleep.

dIdDy
04-24-07, 5:15 am
overtraining is subjective. each individual has different recovery abilities.

dyskee
04-24-07, 11:33 am
thnx guys i'll kep u up with the results, but i am worried that because of the high volume of flat chest workout i would develop droppy pecs or breast like ones what do u think???

dyskee
04-25-07, 12:43 pm
ppl please answer my last question i don't want to have droppy pecks could that happen??

J 2the att
05-26-07, 2:24 pm
After taking the pump, i hit the gym. I did atleast 5 solid exercises for the back ranging from 5-3 sets and 8-15 reps with one superset. I thought my biceps would be tired by now so i just did close and wide grip curls with high intensity. However, i felt like i could have done a LOT more. I was not sure at this point to keep on going or go home and just eat. How do you guys know when you had a good workout and it's enough?

ChrisG
05-26-07, 2:30 pm
If you have a hard time holding on to the steering will on your way home from arm day, or have a hard time pressing the gas or break after leg day.. then you know you got a good workout in. Personally I know on leg day if I've hit them good because as I'm walking back up to the house my legs constantly try to give out on me making me look retarded trying to walk lol

madlib
05-26-07, 2:48 pm
If you have a hard time holding on to the steering will on your way home from arm day, or have a hard time pressing the gas or break after leg day.. then you know you got a good workout in. Personally I know on leg day if I've hit them good because as I'm walking back up to the house my legs constantly try to give out on me making me look retarded trying to walk lol

haha that's the worst feeling ever, but it's a given when you see someone walk like that "squats?" yup...

BeastFromMiddleEast
05-26-07, 3:26 pm
After taking the pump, i hit the gym. I did atleast 5 solid exercises for the back ranging from 5-3 sets and 8-15 reps with one superset. I thought my biceps would be tired by now so i just did close and wide grip curls with high intensity. However, i felt like i could have done a LOT more. I was not sure at this point to keep on going or go home and just eat. How do you guys know when you had a good workout and it's enough?

If you feel like complete crap for too long and legthargic, then you are overtraining, but everyone's body is different and some people can do more of an excersise and grow correctly while some rot up and lose muscle, in this sport of bodybuilding you have to figure out what works for you and take advantage of it to the full extent.

I noticed that I grow the most when I am on a Double-Split Training Routine.

Find what works for you and utlize it.

Gainer65
05-26-07, 4:03 pm
Someone quoted this before and I'm a firm believer.You can't overtrain,only undereat.

Ox
05-26-07, 4:50 pm
I like to go to go just past the point in my workout when I am the fullest and most pumped. Once you start to flatten out and don't feel as pumped you're going too far.

Kiwi129
05-26-07, 5:30 pm
Ox is right bro. This is why it's tough for people to tell their proper training volume until they've been lifting consistently for awhile. You need to know how you feel when you've gotten as pumped as possible, and stop. Awhile back, I was doing a 20 set chest workout... I came home and to the Forvm wondering why my chest wasn't pumped at all after such a high volume workout. The answer was BECAUSE of the high volume workout. It' VERY easy to kill a pump by working too long. I cut it back to twelve sets, 3-4 sets of 3-4 movements and I stay pumped forever now. I think that general sets guideline that floats around is pretty good to start yourself out at. 6-9 sets for arms, about 12 for chest and delts, and about 16 for legs and back. I find that those numbers, give or take a few sets and movements, give me a great pump and going past those would be too much. Remember also that it's about HOW you lift. If I wanted to do a six set chest workout I could make that intense enough to exhaust a high percentage of muscle fibers (the ultimate and end goal in working out...). Think about it, go in hit three sets of heavy incline bench, last one could go to failure... followed by three sets of heavy dumbbell bench done in the same fashion. That would blow your chest up I think... Good luck in whatever you choose.

Space Cowboy
05-26-07, 5:45 pm
[QUOTE=Kiwi129;96084] "A while back, I was doing a 20 set chest workout... I came home and to the Forvm wondering why my chest wasn't pumped at all after such a high volume workout. The answer was BECAUSE of the high volume workout. It' VERY easy to kill a pump by working too long. I cut it back to twelve sets, 3-4 sets of 3-4 movements and I stay pumped forever now. I think that general sets guideline that floats around is pretty good to start yourself out at. 6-9 sets for arms, about 12 for chest and delts, and about 16 for legs and back.
Remember also that it's about HOW you lift".


SPOT ON!


EASI
COWBOY

J 2the att
05-26-07, 8:04 pm
My arms still feel pumped after like 5 hours. I guess i should have done more. There is always another day.

Kiwi129
05-26-07, 9:13 pm
Why should you have done more? Don't overestimate pumps in the biceps, triceps, and calves bro. The smaller the muscle group the more intense and long lasting the pump is. My chest and back get super pumped up and tired during the workout but only stay pumped like that for maybe 30 minutes afterwards (bigger, more complex muscle groups...).

MELTDOWN
05-27-07, 1:00 am
one of my favorite quotes is from schak in the -fear of victory-article...".....Do not make the common mistake of overtraining. Do what you went there to do--get a pump, break down muscle tissue, go home, and feed it to grow."

the-craig
05-27-07, 11:54 am
a just stop at 9sets for biceps and 12 for all other muscles apart from back which do few more, if i did more than that i thought id be over trainin but Gustavo Badell says you can't overtrain if you eat enough to recover so if u eat plenty

krazyassmexican
06-07-07, 11:16 pm
let's say i work out my back tuesdays

wednesdays i do 4 sets x 15 reps of clean and jerks

and thursdays i workout my legs including some squats and hyper extensions

am i overtraining my back?

TufffGuY
06-07-07, 11:20 pm
your lower back may be beat, but not your lats

krazyassmexican
06-07-07, 11:37 pm
should i keep doing the same?
your lower back may be beat, but not your lats

Dunk
06-07-07, 11:42 pm
why not put your cleans with legs on thursday. And just a side question, why are you doing 15 reps of cleans?

Big Wides
06-07-07, 11:48 pm
let's say i work out my back tuesdays

wednesdays i do 4 sets x 15 reps of clean and jerks

and thursdays i workout my legs including some squats and hyper extensions

am i overtraining my back?

it all depends on the intensity and frequency of the workouts. during my throwing days we used to do olympic lifts every Mon,Wed,Fri for two weeks, then for another two weeks it was 5 days a week, then back to three days for another two weeks. just remember to eat right and clean, hydrate, and get your rest and you should be fine. however if you feel like you are getting fatigued in your back, legs, shoulders, ect. take a step back, look at your current training and make the necessary changes. train smart and get big

krazyassmexican
06-07-07, 11:57 pm
honestly cuz i read on bodybuilding.com that 4 sets of 15 reps of clean and jerks promote fat loss
why not put your cleans with legs on thursday. And just a side question, why are you doing 15 reps of cleans?

krazyassmexican
06-07-07, 11:59 pm
i have 3 days off (wednesday, friday and sunday) and since i dont wanna be home scratchin my balls i wanted to do clean and jerks and then hit the cardio room my diet is kinda lean cuz i'm cuttin and i'm tryin to hit the cardio everyday
it all depends on the intensity and frequency of the workouts. during my throwing days we used to do olympic lifts every Mon,Wed,Fri for two weeks, then for another two weeks it was 5 days a week, then back to three days for another two weeks. just remember to eat right and clean, hydrate, and get your rest and you should be fine. however if you feel like you are getting fatigued in your back, legs, shoulders, ect. take a step back, look at your current training and make the necessary changes. train smart and get big

LegendKillerJosh
06-08-07, 12:00 am
Yes. You are overtraining. Big moves like cleans don't just tax one part of your body. You are taxing your entire central nervous system, and you can't ask your body to squat the very next day. When you train heavy you kill your bodies test., creatine stores, and all of its recovery mechanisms. I follow a very brief but high intensity training routine and rest is more important in this way than the actual lifting. If you started to give your body 48-96 hours rest between squat and clean and deadlift etc. days you would start to see massive size gains immediately.

Dunk
06-08-07, 12:10 am
honestly cuz i read on bodybuilding.com that 4 sets of 15 reps of clean and jerks promote fat loss

If that is the only reason, then I would do them on the leg day as a warm up to squats. If you are doing heavy deads on Tuesday, put your leg day on Friday. Since you are not using the cleans as an explosive movement you should be fine in regards to overtraining.

krazyassmexican
06-08-07, 12:11 am
i did my squats with no problem today i even went heavier but i agree with u at resting and stuff so should i clean and jerk sundays only?
Yes. You are overtraining. Big moves like cleans don't just tax one part of your body. You are taxing your entire central nervous system, and you can't ask your body to squat the very next day. When you train heavy you kill your bodies test., creatine stores, and all of its recovery mechanisms. I follow a very brief but high intensity training routine and rest is more important in this way than the actual lifting. If you started to give your body 48-96 hours rest between squat and clean and deadlift etc. days you would start to see massive size gains immediately.

krazyassmexican
06-08-07, 12:12 am
yeah i dont really go heavy on my cleans so i dunno like i said my plan was to clean and jerk wednesday friday and sunday i think i should get a plan b
If that is the only reason, then I would do them on the leg day as a warm up to squats. If you are doing heavy deads on Tuesday, put your leg day on Friday. Since you are not using the cleans as an explosive movement you should be fine in regards to overtraining.

krazyassmexican
06-08-07, 1:52 am
thanks guys

hjayss
06-08-07, 3:23 am
Nobody knows your body better than you so just listen to your body. Look at your progress if you are going up in weight on lifts gaining muscle then by all means KEEP GOING...Good luck krazy...

Tron
06-08-07, 3:26 am
Try and if you feel too tired after them, quit. Simple as that. There's no special trick.

krazyassmexican
06-08-07, 10:18 am
thanks a lot chi town partner haha
Nobody knows your body better than you so just listen to your body. Look at your progress if you are going up in weight on lifts gaining muscle then by all means KEEP GOING...Good luck krazy...

Torque757
06-08-07, 9:13 pm
Lets not confuse overtraining and over REACHING. It is very difficult do overtrain, but that doesnt change the fact it is real.

eric downey
06-09-07, 4:15 am
no im not. im stronger than ever before and do less in the gym than i ever have. workouts last 1 hr not 3 like in the past.

Toni69
06-19-07, 5:57 am
Let's face it, most people do complain of overtraining when actually, they are not overtrained at all..but then again, its a double edged sword..who are we to judge how someone actually feels? We all have different breaking points and although I have never suffered from overtraining per se with my aggressive style of lifting, I may have indeed been overtrained at times and ignored the symptoms.

It is no secret among athletes that in order to improve performance you've got to work hard. However, consistently training hard and heavy will eventually break you down and make you weaker if your not taking enough food and rest to recover properly.

Overtraining can best be defined as the state where the athlete has been repeatedly stressed by training to the point where rest is no longer adequate to allow for recovery.

The most common symptom is fatigue. This may limit workouts and may be present at rest. You may become moody, easily irritated, have altered sleep patterns, become depressed, or lose the competitive desire and enthusiasm for the sport. Some will report decreased appetite and weight loss. Physical symptoms include persistent muscular soreness, increased frequency of viral illnesses, and increased incidence of injuries.

You take care of you car so that it runs efficently and lasts longer right? Same with your body...you beat it to the ground everyday..not just with training, with stress from home, work, kids, love life, social life, what to wear today...so take care of it...rest and eat well...treat it with respect and it will serve you for a long time.

mark
06-19-07, 6:32 am
Over reaching is what most people feel when they say they're overtrained. Over reaching is characterized as a state of physical and mental fatigue where mild rest is the only cure. When one is over reached, one is physically weaker and typically lacking in the motivation department. The only true cure for over reaching is to take a week or 2 off from the gym. If one needs less time than a week out of the gym, then they were simply fatigued. There is a clear line between fatigued and over reaching.

mark
06-19-07, 6:44 am
What happens when you continually train while over reached. It takes about 3 months to become over trained. Over training is a medical condition characterized by changes in hormonal profile, typically low Test and high cortisol levels, depression, and muscular atrophy, often acute cases. They're can be a few other odds and ends as far as symptoms go, but those are the biggies. As you can guess, over training often times needs medical intervention, and definitely an extended break from training to recover.

mark
06-19-07, 6:52 am
Usually at least a month is recommended off from training in order to let the body recover fully. The important thing to remember is that it took a long time to become over trained, so its going to take awhile to recover. However, over reaching when applied correctly with super-compensation can be a powerful training tool. Essentially, with smart training, one trains to the point of over reaching, then takes a break from the gym for a week. When you come back, you'll be bigger and definitely stronger.

pdiesel
06-19-07, 2:40 pm
some of the best, symmetrical physiques came out of overtraining..i dont agree with the rule that 10 sets per bodypart will cut it..everyone is different--you need to train until you cant train anymore..just make sure you eat big afterwards

ironshaolin
06-19-07, 3:10 pm
yeah if everyone's so afraid of overtraining will make me small. I won't grow if I overtrain. Then how did Arnold manage to do 15-20 sets per bodypart, 3 days a week? By todays standards, this would classify as overtraining. Yet, he developed one of the best physiques of all time using this type of split. Had you told him he was "overtraining" he would've said, quit whining girly-man. And this was without all these modern day supplements that aid in recovery.

LegendKillerJosh
06-19-07, 11:27 pm
Many people are overtraining but don't realize it. A workout, regardless of what body "part" you're working, taxes your whole system. As you progress into bodybuilding, you don't learn to cope with training. It's quite the opposite - as you become bigger and stronger, your workouts must be more intense, and your body needs more rest. The laws of science are immutable, otherwise no one could be sent to space and brought back safe. Muscle building is a science. Everybody reacts to certain stress the same, we are all human and the only way to make muscles grow is to hit them with more weight or reps (not sets) on an exercise than ever before - and then rest long enough for your body to not only to repair itself to where it was, but rest long enough for your body to repair itself to even bigger than it was, which can take days! Read "High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way" and you will all see the light, how to train less than a half hour at a time, and resting atleast 72 hours between workouts, and watch your muscles get huge. It's science people, not some theory. If you're working out 5 days a week, hell even more than 3 days a week you are overtraining. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean you aren't. Sorry if I sound so close-minded, but I never got results in my training till I read the aforementioned book and started to let my body rest enough.

LegendKillerJosh
06-19-07, 11:34 pm
And for the guy who mentioned Arnold, I'm sorry to say this since I love Arnold, but he got huge because he started 'roiding at age 12. And the only reason people like Arnie's physique so much is because he had a huge chest and huge biceps, but other than that he wasn't too impressive. You can train like a freak if you are juicing, because juicing speeds up protien synthesis so your muscles can recup very fast. But for any of us, training that much is absurd. Have you ever seen Arnold pics from his young days? He was huge by age 15. He just had killer genetics. And I'm not one that goes around complaining I'm small because of bad genetics. Despite "bad genetics" (i.e. not doing 'roids since I was 8) I went from 155lbs to 210 between Sept. of 2005 and now. Believe me, I love Arnold, but just because he started training chest and biceps at age 10 and roidin' by age 12 doesn't mean he wasn't overtraining.

LegendKillerJosh
06-19-07, 11:44 pm
in my opinion there is no such thing as overtraining there is only under resting and under eating

DUH! What the hell do you think overtraining is - it's not resting enough. Way to waste time posting the obvious. Let this be a message to everyone - don't waste time with pointless posts.

Toni69
06-20-07, 4:10 am
And for the guy who mentioned Arnold, I'm sorry to say this since I love Arnold, but he got huge because he started 'roiding at age 12. And the only reason people like Arnie's physique so much is because he had a huge chest and huge biceps, but other than that he wasn't too impressive. You can train like a freak if you are juicing, because juicing speeds up protien synthesis so your muscles can recup very fast. But for any of us, training that much is absurd. Have you ever seen Arnold pics from his young days? He was huge by age 15. He just had killer genetics. And I'm not one that goes around complaining I'm small because of bad genetics. Despite "bad genetics" (i.e. not doing 'roids since I was 8) I went from 155lbs to 210 between Sept. of 2005 and now. Believe me, I love Arnold, but just because he started training chest and biceps at age 10 and roidin' by age 12 doesn't mean he wasn't overtraining.

You really think Arnold was using at that young an age at that time? His pics at 17..his first tries at competing, he was not so different from any other typical guy you see in the gym today; he had a massive upper body and barely any legs to talk about, at least as far as matching his upper was concerned. He took a year just to focus on his legs before hitting serious competitions. I dont say he didnt use, cause he did later on..I am not sure if he actually started at 12..its all heresay really.

The guy busted his ass bringing up lagging areas...in particular legs and tri's.

king1
06-28-07, 4:33 pm
I am overtraining now. I train 3 days a week, 1.5 hrs at a time, cardio on off days, 10 hrs sleep, 2 grams of protein per/lb bodyweight, and im overtraining. Why? because im dieting. Im gonna stick it out and see what happens. I feel like im overtraining but im doing everything i can to help it, maybe this is just what cutting feels like 8 weeks in. And ARnold WAS NOT juicing at age 12. Like someone said look at the pics of him first competing as a teen and he looks normal. I mean he has a huge chest and great biceps but thats it. He got to where he is from hard work PERIOD. He may have avoided overtraining by taking drugs and eating like a horse but thats it!!!

BigAnt
06-28-07, 4:52 pm
I am overtraining now. I train 3 days a week, 1.5 hrs at a time, cardio on off days, 10 hrs sleep, 2 grams of protein per/lb bodyweight, and im overtraining. Why? because im dieting. Im gonna stick it out and see what happens. I feel like im overtraining but im doing everything i can to help it, maybe this is just what cutting feels like 8 weeks in. And ARnold WAS NOT juicing at age 12. Like someone said look at the pics of him first competing as a teen and he looks normal. I mean he has a huge chest and great biceps but thats it. He got to where he is from hard work PERIOD. He may have avoided overtraining by taking drugs and eating like a horse but thats it!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

depending on "what" you do on your training days, you might-might not be over training...

all that (should) matter now is busting your ass to reach-exceed your goals...8 weeks in--is tough keep your head in the game--always see the big picture..and don't forget about listening to your body, when feeling sluggish-tired maybe throw in some lean cuts of red meat, use Shock---glutamine BCAA stack is a must at this time~!

hit me up if you need any help!

stay strong...mind-body!

Ant

Wasteland
06-28-07, 5:18 pm
On topic: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=7162

Lot of other FAQs there.

Jrise125
06-29-07, 11:47 am
I am currently on a 4 day split with Wednesday my off day which I will do 45 minutes of cardio and abs. My question is I work my biceps with my back on Tuesday so is it overtraining if I hit em up again on Friday? I will usually do 2 bicep exercises after a grueling leg workout on fridays. The reason I like to train biceps twice a week is they look a little behind compared to the rest of my body. Oh yeah and I am currently on a cut if that makes any difference.

WillWest
06-29-07, 12:12 pm
My preference is not to train biceps too much. They are getting a pretty good working over from your back routine if you're rowing and deadlifting etc. Maybe cancel them with back and keep them with legs?

I know what you mean though, i sometimes think my arms are looking a little behind everything else but they'll follow soon enough especially if your hitting your back hard & heavy.

The Prodigy
06-29-07, 12:44 pm
i think i've been over trainin here. previously i never believed in overtrainin. but now for the past three months i have been trainin every bodypart tinwice a week with one heavy session and one lite session, with sundays being the only days off. i recently have been add sprints and conditiong moves to my work out as i am trying to play collegiate ice hockey.
over the last 3 months i have been eating clean, only cheatin on sundays, and still getting in my daily protein requirements. i have dropped from 195 to 170-175 right about now. i am still makin gains in my lifting even tho i am cuttin. i find this unusual since normally you get weeker when you cut. i have just hit 300 on my bench which is an all time personal best, considering bench is the weekest of my three power movements

i was wondering if i should stop actin like a pussy and suk it up and continue to train everything twice a week hitting each body part with 12-0 set apiece, or should i calm down a little bit and for a week or two try to recover and only train each bodypart once a week hard and kill it? i already do kill the body parts right now but at this rate, especially with the addition of sprints and ladder drills, i think i am goin to kill myself.

i'm personally leanin on the side of sukin it up but let me know wat you guys think. time off rite now is not even an option.

boar
07-02-07, 12:45 pm
realizing your overtraining is a humbling experience. Us animals want to train hardcore every day but most of us can not. As a bodybuilder/athlete/powerlifter you need to realize the body is only anabolic during rest periods.

The symptoms that were listed are way to broad. they could apply to viral colds or many other types of complications...

mark
07-03-07, 9:42 pm
Boar, one must remember that with overtraining comes a weakened immune system. This is another thing that makes diagnosing overtraining so hard, one could simply be sick, or one could be overtrained. Though i am a believer in overtraining, i do believe that too many people jump on that when they find that there recovery ability goes down for whatever reason. Most people over reach, which isn't bad if you compensate for it. One can make great gains over reaching and then letting the body supercompensate.

mark
07-03-07, 9:49 pm
Prodigy -- yes, depending on your training load and volume, you could very well overtrain/over reach doing that. If you're an athlete, remember that you'll preform better on the field if your slightly under trained than if overtrained.

Trangoul
07-05-07, 2:52 am
would working the same part for a few hours a day be too much? because i like training the same muscle for about 3 hours or untill it hurts to move it.

hjayss
07-05-07, 5:41 am
would working the same part for a few hours a day be too much? because i like training the same muscle for about 3 hours or untill it hurts to move it.
What is your split at this time..how many set including the warm up...

Machine
07-05-07, 10:45 am
If you are 5'11 and wiegh 200 pounds...there is no such thing as overtraining. You got some fucking work to do...I couldn't even look at this computer screen with that much work to do. I have difficulty finding time to type away on this stupid thing...but you wouldnt see me on here if those bio-stats above where my personal numbers.

MACHINE

Malloy1344
07-06-07, 9:23 pm
pretty much i believe you can train as hard as you can handle, just eat more food....its worked wonder for me. I kill myself, each day....I mean i heavin near the trash can after a shoulder workout even.....maximum intensity, maximum exertion. You only have that 1 - 1.5 hours a day in the gym, don't waste it, or take it light. Punish your body, but get proper rest and nutrtion, when it comes to rest and food, you can never get enough :)

Dean
07-06-07, 9:48 pm
HAWK hit the nail on the head on this one.

RatedRSuperStar
07-10-07, 3:30 am
So how many weeks would you weight train before taking a rest week?

NATBB74
07-10-07, 5:24 pm
I starting lifting at 14. Was an amateur BB by 20. Was 5'7 205 18" arms
Got injured (torn pec) and gave it up at 21.
I ALWAYS worked evey body part twice per week.
That was THEN. I am now 32. I started back into this
about 8 weeks ago, and of course, I started training like I did
when I was 20. Bad idea. I was sore and tired all of the time
and was only seeing very little results. The last 2 weeks I have
switched to training every body part only ONCE a week,
except for Calves and Forearms. My bench is up 30 lbs
and my squat is up 30 lbs. This is on the same diet (3500 cals 225g protein
only supp is The Pak multi & whey protein powder) that I was on doing each part twice per week.
If you are not seeing results I would try this for a few weeks
and see what happens :)

JUGGERNAUT
07-10-07, 7:10 pm
Overtraining means different things to different people so you would have to be stupid to train to the point of catabolism or have some low calorie screwed up training program. I don't get the point of this thread. I can see this read beneficial for those that don't know the difference between anabolic gaining and weakness; not us here.

Tantalus
08-01-07, 1:20 pm
Ok so I have been on the forum for awhile and I choose not to get to involved I'd rather read some of the BS to get myself in a rage and use it or maybe read a post by machine to put things into perspective...anyways I'm not goin go into too much detail about me I'm in my 20's but I've been train'n since I was 14 all natural. The master of all training workouts has to be Steve Michalik, train every body part, on every set till failure. No such thing as overtraining. Yes the man did juice so im sure he could do things beyond your average human (I also would like to add that he is now all natural and leads team of all natual guys that dominate), but he was also in car accident leaving him paralized from the waste down when he was gonna give arnold a run for his money. Oh yeah, he overcame that walked again, competed again (the phantom bodybuilder). He never looked as good but its not about that , its mind set, never give up, never surrender, no matter the cost. The very word "overtrain" makes me sick. How bad do you want it? Do you think its gonna be easy, do you think you won't platue? I mean god damn you call yourselfs animals because your apart of this forum one would think you might of learned something form the pros...i.e machine, you wanna be freak pay attention to these guys. You think Jay and Ronnie go home early cause they think they are over train'n. If you totally commit yourself its impossible. If you go out and drink stay up late cheat on your diet then what do you expect. Fuck'n grow some balls quite worry about all the petty shit and go pound some weight. "anyone can lift weights but not everyone is a weight lifter."

intensity (the increased amount of work or physical effort)
insanity (the decreased time, or increased speed, combined with increased force to cause rapid growth by artificial means)
= mass (the meause of a bodys resistance to acceleration

get big or die try'n

the-craig
08-01-07, 2:11 pm
would you still be overtraining a bodypart if you trained it twice in a week even though you missed another out if that makes sence, my knees injured so i cant train quads, cant move the weight without pain, wonderin if i can train a lagging muscle and the protein, for example, would help repair the lagging muscle trained twice rather than the 1 i missed.

Freak57
08-02-07, 10:56 am
Ok so I have been on the forum for awhile and I choose not to get to involved I'd rather read some of the BS to get myself in a rage and use it or maybe read a post by machine to put things into perspective...anyways I'm not goin go into too much detail about me I'm in my 20's but I've been train'n since I was 14 all natural. The master of all training workouts has to be Steve Michalik, train every body part, on every set till failure. No such thing as overtraining. Yes the man did juice so im sure he could do things beyond your average human (I also would like to add that he is now all natural and leads team of all natual guys that dominate), but he was also in car accident leaving him paralized from the waste down when he was gonna give arnold a run for his money. Oh yeah, he overcame that walked again, competed again (the phantom bodybuilder). He never looked as good but its not about that , its mind set, never give up, never surrender, no matter the cost. The very word "overtrain" makes me sick. How bad do you want it? Do you think its gonna be easy, do you think you won't platue? I mean god damn you call yourselfs animals because your apart of this forum one would think you might of learned something form the pros...i.e machine, you wanna be freak pay attention to these guys. You think Jay and Ronnie go home early cause they think they are over train'n. If you totally commit yourself its impossible. If you go out and drink stay up late cheat on your diet then what do you expect. Fuck'n grow some balls quite worry about all the petty shit and go pound some weight. "anyone can lift weights but not everyone is a weight lifter."

intensity (the increased amount of work or physical effort)
insanity (the decreased time, or increased speed, combined with increased force to cause rapid growth by artificial means)
= mass (the meause of a bodys resistance to acceleration

get big or die try'n


I believe in overtraining to a point but its mostly undereating and under intensity......

karthik
08-19-07, 9:29 pm
I'm tired...I'm cold...I'm scared...I'm hungry...are we there yet?...Is Santa Claus real?...is there a God?...I have a cold...my tummy hurts...does mommy love me the most?...My shoulder is clicking...I feel fatigued...sluggish...flat and smooth...Do you think I overtrain?

There is a whole counter culture being proliferated that rewards self doubt and weakness like they were virtues. An excuse is like a disease...it slips out of your mouth...the next thing you know everyone is infected. An excuse is the first step in your capitulation. There are no excuses for your weakness...NO ONE CARES. I have been " OVERTRAINING" for a long time now. I see many people from all over. I see them again at a later date...you know what has changed about them?...NOTHING. I'm 275...295...315...back down to compete in the 260's...back up to over 300...now I am 324. They never change...but thier tired ass fucking retoric stays constant. I hurt this...I broke up with my old lady...I got lost on the way to the gym...They never stop to think about how insulting it is to sit there and listen to thier bullshit. As they are talking I run through scenarios in my head of killing them in millions of different ways. I cant bear to hear it for another second. All science and no balls...makes for a pussy with a lot of fancy theories. Balls...Attitude...Direction...that is what it takes to develope your whole being fully. All rivers flow from that ocean. Dont over complicate things with bullshit...excuses and retoric that everyones tired of hearing. Its so very uninspiring...to make this pursuit specifically science driven...rips the soul out of it...I for one succeed because I overtrain. If you dont like me...the line forms to the left.

MACHINE

don't worry machine, you are not alone, if JON PALL SIGMARSSON was alive today he would laugh alongside with you, train his ass off and yell "VIKING WARRIOR" everytime even the slightest bit of fatigue would creep up to him, it's also funny how every elite level athlete I talk to, and almost every strong mofo in my gym have less than perfect schedules, i.e. less than 5 hours of sleep, missed a meal here and there, yet still managed to become huge, strong, and win trophies, oh yeah, they must be on some special supplements unavailable to the general public, puhhhhhhhlllease!

dominatetheiron
09-14-07, 11:30 pm
Alright i know i know i know. your all screaming at your computers. you were cursing me before you clicked on the thread but hear me out.

I wrestle in college. I am in the preseason getting ready and i am currently working out 4 times a day I do cardio twice 30 mins a piece one hour of running a day. i wrestle for 1-1 1/2 hours a day. then i lift weights for 90 mins. thats on average 4 hours of working out in a day, i go to class anywhere from 2-6 hours a day and i cook all my own meals at home. so yeah i train and go to school thats it. I am here to tell you with the right diet and rest i feel amazing on a daily basis and my training doesn't phase me and i work out with great intensity. I don't believe in the phrase over training. Its bullshit stop being a little girl because its the things i do today that my competition refuses to do that will one day make me a champion.

Giant Killer
09-14-07, 11:37 pm
I feel the same way, everyone who knows me, knows I feel that way.

Mastery over your diet, rest, and recovery time is key. If you eat like shit, and sleep 4 hours a night, I believe "overtraining" is very real, just because your brain will not be able to handle it. The true definition of "overtraining" is CNS overload that does not allow your muscle to contract. Your muscles will handle whatever you throw at them, as long as the other factors don't limit your CNS.

JMC
09-14-07, 11:51 pm
I've always jumped on this bandwagon as well. Your body will adapt as long as you're smart. There's always stupidity which can hinder ANYTHING.

Pizzalamp
09-15-07, 12:52 am
yeah i think with the right rest and food youre ok
i seem to remember hearing its not your muscles that get burned out but your central nervous system eventually

Pizzalamp
09-15-07, 12:53 am
Giant Killer i posted before i read your post

simpleguy
09-15-07, 3:14 am
what do you mean does not exist? let's say today I do legs... by tommorow they're killed (I can barely move'em)... so if I do legs again in two days, when they're still sore, that IS overtraining... now the point of this thread is right, because most guys use 'overtraining' as some kind of excuse not to bust their asses in the gym and that pisses me of ...peace

LegendKillerJosh
09-15-07, 9:05 am
You guys are silly, overtraining is real. And before anyone says "Arnold this and Arnold that" keep in mind that the Olympia competitors are on steroids. Their bodies can synthesize protein much faster than a natural bodybuilder which means faster recovery. And just because you feel good doesn't mean you aren't overtraining. You might feel good but that doesn't mean you're growing. Post some pics if your so sure it doesn't exist. Because until you're a pro you have lots of room for improvement. And the reason it does exist is because people don't realize that a workout no matter what body part you are training taxes your entire system, it beats down test levels, empties your creatine stores and all your other recovery devices. And when you train everyday you don't allow those things to replenish. Now one last thing, before everyone starts attacking me, I wasn't attacking anybody with this thread, that is just what I believe.

Giant Killer
09-15-07, 9:49 am
You guys are silly, overtraining is real. And before anyone says "Arnold this and Arnold that" keep in mind that the Olympia competitors are on steroids. Their bodies can synthesize protein much faster than a natural bodybuilder which means faster recovery. And just because you feel good doesn't mean you aren't overtraining. You might feel good but that doesn't mean you're growing. Post some pics if your so sure it doesn't exist. Because until you're a pro you have lots of room for improvement. And the reason it does exist is because people don't realize that a workout no matter what body part you are training taxes your entire system, it beats down test levels, empties your creatine stores and all your other recovery devices. And when you train everyday you don't allow those things to replenish. Now one last thing, before everyone starts attacking me, I wasn't attacking anybody with this thread, that is just what I believe.

I hear your points, and they are definitely valid, but I'm arguing that with proper nutrition and rest, all those things that you mentioned are depleted can be replenished easily. I don't necessarily agree with the premise of the thread "Overtraining does not exist". It is very real, but I think people preoccupy themselves with word of mouth data that comes from people who didn't have their nutrition and rest in check. Also, overtraining is a process that takes months of overextending yourself beyond your regenerative abilities. It doesn't happen in just a week of high volume, which I believe could in fact be beneficial.

And not directed at you LegendKiller, just a general rant, but I think natural bodybuilders defeat themselves & cheat themselves when they think that enhanced bodybuilders gains are so far beyond their reach. Don't give in to fear. Do what you have to do to grow, and keep your nutrition, rest, and livin' in check. I for one, have all my shit in check, I'm training each large muscle group twice a week (therefore small muscle groups once directly & twice indirectly), and I'm not going to accept defeat. People get so afraid of overtraining that they forget that you need to provide your muscles with diverse stimulus periodically in order to grow. The only reason I will stop doing this and lower training frequency is when I adapt to the stimulus. Then I will find a new way to provide intensity. I will let you know if any of my measurements decrease as a result of "overtraining".

ShaqFu
09-15-07, 9:51 am
I gotta agree with my man above me here. I think overtraining does exist, but its degree of effect on the individual is extremely dependent on diet, sleep, supps, and actually how much overtraining one is doing. Once again, it all comes down to the individual, I fucking hate the systematizing of bodybuilding because sometimes, the fucking system won't apply to you. If you can train for 6 hours and day and grow, fucking do it. Each persons body is unique and responds in different ways, for some overtraining exists, for others it doesn't, I'm not gonna shut my eyes and pray to God that it doesn't for me cuz that would be straight up ignorant and pussy. Overtraining exists for me and that is what matters. It is an individual discovery that only you can make. Overtraining exists for some and not others, end of story.

Dead(Lift)
09-15-07, 9:56 am
I wasn't cursing you before I opened it. What I did was... "OMG he's sooo right."... Well not like that, lol. But I agree.

Squat_Heavy
09-15-07, 9:57 am
I hear ya on the mindset on this, yes, you gotta think like that. But if you train lets say your arms 7times a week, whats gonna happen? Yes --> overtraining.

Some of the best strength programs is BASED on purpose-full overtraining, you train, train --> overtrain ---> rest and have reached a new plateau. You should read some of Charles Poliquins take on thins on T-Nation. I employ this in my trainingprograms, so yes. It's real, Very real.

Lawnmower Man
09-15-07, 11:03 am
different strokes for different folks

RED DOG
09-15-07, 11:04 am
fuk that dude, haha dont mean to be rude but i gotta agree no such thing as overtraining, obviously you dont do a killer leg workout twice in a row, you can work out everyday as long as you work a different body part each day, one day chest and tris next day back and bicep, plus the sleep and food, youll be fine. its all up to your mind and shit wether your gonna burn out,. obviously if you wake up at 6 in the monring and go to work and then get home and work out for 2 hours and then stay up till 11 or 12 and go to bed, your gonna fuk yourself up cus your body needs some rest, but if you play it smart and dont party hardy all the time youll be in tip top mate. your as young as you feel and you can train as often as your body tells you you can i think. dont be a bitch, this is animal for fuk sake, not the brownies......sorry if i offended anyone, just how i feel bout it...and the CNS thing oyu boys were talkin bout, deff true...so get the sleep and food...

RED DOG
09-15-07, 11:16 am
just to add to what i said before, i have overtraied before so it is possible, but like i said wihtout the rest and food it happens, and i was gettin 6 hrs sleep and not enough food and it took about 2 months befor i collapsed mid workout....i was stupid and im not anymore. so yes it can happen, but no i believe it will not happen and should not scare you if your smart.

LegendKillerJosh
09-15-07, 11:33 am
Other people forget about this - overtraining doesn't include strictly frequency. You can overtrain a muscle group in a single workout. If you continue to train after your heaviest sets and your muscles are completely exhausted but you continue to add more and more low intensity sets to hit that muscle group, you can damage beyond repair. If you spend a full hour just doing biceps for example, you are doing too much. Just get in there and hit heavy with 6-12 sets of whatever you prefer with heavy weight, shouldn't take more than a half hour, then let it grow. You can overtrain in a single session.

Giant Killer
09-15-07, 12:19 pm
I think we could go back and forth all day LegendKiller, you are a smart guy and I think you have great points, but I disagree with them.

We'll just agree to disagree I guess.

Gainer65
09-15-07, 12:37 pm
Overtraining - It only happens if you let it.You gotta do your homework in this sport.

In a perfect world, if all you had to do is train,eat, and rest,overtraining would not be a issue,but when you work 10-12 hours a day,try to raise a family,keep up a house etc.etc.etc.You have to be more careful.Overtraining can be a real issue.It's said over and over on this site,you gotta listen to your body.I take the cavalier attitude of "Quit being a pussy and train" with a grain of salt,because everyone's situation in life is different.Just my 2 cents.

RED DOG
09-15-07, 12:41 pm
Overtraining - It only happens if you let it.You gotta do your homework in this sport.

In a perfect world, if all you had to do is train,eat, and rest,overtraining would not be a issue,but when you work 10-12 hours a day,try to raise a family,keep up a house etc.etc.etc.You have to be more careful.Overtraining can be a real issue.It's said over and over on this site,you gotta listen to your body.I take the cavalier attitude of "Quit being a pussy and train" with a grain of salt,because everyone's situation in life is different.Just my 2 cents.


here here brother....well said...feel the same way, if your smart or you have no ties down relatively speaking youll be fine, but if you neglect your rest and nutrition your fuked....nuff said

Lynx31
09-15-07, 1:22 pm
Hey guys, until yesterday I was unaware that you can overtrain/fatigue your Central Nervous System, has anyone ever done this or heard about this before? I found an interesting article on muscletech, stating some of the symptoms and such. I'm curious to find out more about it, I'm curious if I have it. For the past few months I have been dead tired at all times, even after just waking up. I had lost weight when I went of my diet, I went from 185 to 173, but since Monday when I started my diet again I have went back up to 177. Does anyone have some more information on this? Thanks!

gsb239
09-15-07, 1:28 pm
Some people believe it, some don't. I personally think it does exist, but not to the extremes that some people say it does.

You just gotta listen to your body. If you're tired, take a few days off, give your body a break. But don't use that as an excuse to take days off whenever you "feel" like it. I like to take a week off every 8-10 weeks, Im pretty beat down after those weeks that my body's pretty much craving that time off. You feel great after a week off, I think you make more gains this way too. Just be sure to eat, and sleep enough.

Giant Killer
09-15-07, 1:34 pm
Did you see that we have a thread on this already that has been posted in all morning?

Lynx31
09-15-07, 1:39 pm
no I didn't, I looked and just found it now.. Sorry for the repost

Giant Killer
09-15-07, 1:46 pm
no I didn't, I looked and just found it now.. Sorry for the repost

No big deal brother, Search first!

AnthonyB
09-15-07, 1:48 pm
my sig says it all...

LegendKillerJosh
09-15-07, 11:25 pm
I think we could go back and forth all day LegendKiller, you are a smart guy and I think you have great points, but I disagree with them.

We'll just agree to disagree I guess.

ok.

RED DOG
09-16-07, 11:35 am
haha shit eh dude...could cut the tension in here with a knife...kill the thread afore somethin breaks out.........

Giant Killer
09-16-07, 11:47 am
haha shit eh dude...could cut the tension in here with a knife...kill the thread afore somethin breaks out.........

I think it's a pretty good debate, but I think people are pretty polarized on their idea of overtraining. For those who are on the fence, I'd like to keep this open for debate.

RED DOG
09-16-07, 11:57 am
i agree and disagree with you GK...good debate topic...but people gettin to into it emotionally...no one means anyone disrespect about there replies...i hope they dont anyway...but yeah i think its interesting but to be honest therers no two ways about it...there is no such thing as overtraiing...IF....your not stupid otherwise itll happen...haha but shit eh mate you know i was just joking bout closin it down...haha didnt htink youd take that seriously...but i was serious about the tension part....could feel it bro....

RED DOG
09-16-07, 12:00 pm
this is a really weird and hard to answer topic mate... i mean all the facts show that it is very real if your stupid but completely avoidable if your smart...gotta have a toss up or everyone will just have to agree that eveyrone is right until and unless someone can offer substantial evidence that there is in fact no such thing as over training or otherwise...what you think there GK?

Giant Killer
09-16-07, 12:19 pm
No big deal bro, I know what you were saying.

For ME, I'm talking about "does it exist for ME". NO. For someone else? Maybe. My nutrition and rest is in strict accordance with the bodybuilding lifestyle. I don't party or have habits that work against that. I have a life outside of bodybuilding, but I am still 100% dedicated to it. I could train for hours and recover just fine, or train 6 days a week, like I did this week, and yes I am a "natural" bodybuilder. I am in strict observation of my recovery and I am 100% as I type this. I'm not trying to "toot my own horn" either, just give some perspective on the issue.

My major problem with "overtraining", is that 99% of the time, it is used as a crutch by those who don't want to train hard. By those who want to bodybuild but not live the life, eat whatever they want, stay up late, party, etc. I am not pointing fingers here, just expressing my philosophies. "Overtraining" becomes a stigma, a monster in the closet, of someone that just can't handle it.

RED DOG
09-16-07, 1:06 pm
haha dam GK mate i think you and i have put more posts up in this thread than anyone else...gotta get more people in here cus i wana see how it flows with more responses...COME ON GUYS GK AND I GOT IT FIRED UP LETS CHUCK SOME WOOD ON THIS MUTHA...

zer0her0
09-16-07, 9:46 pm
hello all .. just a few questions if you would .. My original routine for the last 8 weeks has been hitting 1 muscle group once per week ... well just recently I thought why not change things up so I'm in my first week of this new split I started. I've been pounding each muscle twice a week now .. I've been sure to keep dead lifts to a max of once a week, and all my muscles feel good to go and pumped.. sometimes I am soar but nothing fixes that like a good nights rest and when I wake up I'm good to go.. What I was wondering is am I "over training" ??? I do roughly 9-12 sets per muscle group twice a week . I train everyday also and my workouts are roughly an hour and a half long including warmup/stretching.. I just want to make sure I'm not putting my muscles in a state where they basically "eat themselves" .. also do you think you could please suggest a routine that would suit a young animal for mass building its time to bulk up for me..that is if you dont think my split is going to benefit me..

any feedback would be appreciated . thanx bros

Northman
09-16-07, 10:21 pm
I have been doing this for a while now and it works for me. My split differs slightly. I have one day for Heavy squats and high(er) rep deads with supporting work (sl deads, box squats, jump squats,...), followed by heavy chest work, followed by shoulders, followed by Heavy Deads and high(er) rep squats with supporting work, followed by an explosive chest day, followed by a back day (usually pull-ups, chin-ups, lat pull-downs...), then bi weekly I will have an arms day or a rest day here. This plan relies a LOT on proper nutrition and rest. I hope this makes sense to you. Do not attempt unless you are ready to commit yourself to organizing your life around this. It is hard on the body and I take my rest seriously. I also eat AT LEAST 10 times a day.

JMC
09-16-07, 10:29 pm
Okay, there's been alot of back and forth on the overtraining thing. People have their own opinions about it and I'd rather your question not turn into another overtraining debate. Here's my take with out getting into it.

You've got to make that determination on your own. Listen to your body. If your soreness persists and consistently do not make gains, something has to change. If you're making gains, bulking, on your lifts, etc. you're doing fine. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

As far as recommending a routine. That you need to build yourself as well. Do the research as to what type of routine you need to set up as it pertains to your goals. Build a basic routine then come back with that. You'll get some good feedback from the FORVM then...

Hope this helps.

jim

zer0her0
09-16-07, 10:30 pm
thanx for your reply stiff ... right on bro I'm from Chatham Ontario !!! but.. I did not ask for your routine m8.. I had asked advice on what I have been doing!!!!!!!?

@ jmc ty for your reply bro .. the weights have just been going up everyday man I pound it harder each time.. I battle my journal always excited and pumped to do better then the week before. I will just keep listening to my body bro..

RoJoHen
09-17-07, 1:22 am
If it's working for you, keep it up. I would suggest taking a day off here and there, though, just to make sure your getting enough recovery time.

RED DOG
09-17-07, 5:42 am
i dont htink youll over train as long as you get rest and adequate nutrition bro...but you should take like a week off ever couple of mnths just to fully recharge...overtrainging if it happens takes a long time to effect..like months...itll eat away slowly...but thats only if you aint eatin and sleepin...so keep hittin the wieghhts bro...later

Northman
09-17-07, 5:43 am
just showing how I do what might be considered a lot and am not over trained, as well as how the program you suggested is similar to what I do.

never_2_big
09-17-07, 6:11 am
the weights have just been going up everyday

as long as the weights goin up and youre recovering after a nights rest then id say keep at it, like the other guys have been sayin listen to your body, if it gets too much at any time ease off for a bit. go hard bro

KENKONG
09-17-07, 10:37 am
what JMC said makes perfect sense. If your doing well keep doing it, if it's not working like you want, change it up and post and I'm sure you'll get some great advice that will get you going again. good luck bro

darkside64
09-17-07, 5:07 pm
I hate it when people say overtraining doesnt exist. You can be high on meth and stay awake for days, that doesnt mean you body doesnt need rest. You gotta be smart about training. When you wake up everyday to extreme soreness your overtraining. When you start to look softer you overtraining. I once had a trainer tell me that Im not lookin as hard as I used to. This was exactly a week after I started training twice a day. Be smart, dont buy into the lie that you cant overtrain. Just look at peoples physiques that say that overtrainin doesnt exist. Nuff said

alex!!
09-17-07, 6:09 pm
if you feel pain in your muscles the next day is it a sigh uve overtrained..??or lack of protein...i sero doubt i get no t enough protein btw..

oh and that aching feeling..i love it!

"you can never overtrain only under eat"

-trey brewer

Frankie86
09-23-07, 4:17 pm
well heres my input if anyone cares lol..over training probably does exist..As for me i guess i have felt the effects, but there are times when i go to the gym for 3 weeks straight without a day off and ill feel just fine..for example I just went 10 days straight and took my day off yesterday..but during the stretches of workin out with no breaks i feel fine..then i get to that 1 day where i probably feel the effects and say ok i need a day off.. take my 1 day and can go for another 2 weeks straight before i need another 1..but hey thats me, thats my body and i guess it can handle it i spend about an hour and a half in the gym each day depending on what im doin and i have a 4 day split..now thats just me..yes u may say its dum to have no off days but i just put them in seeing now that i have to because college started and i have a schedule to follow..

At my old gym there was this guy who was a complete monster..one of those guys who you could tell not only loved the iron, but had it running through his veins..I used to always watched him when he did chest and it was ridiculous..He used to spend about 45 minutes to an hour on the flat bench and about 30 -45 minutes on incline and decline each so another hour and a half there..then did some flyes..so over a 2 hour workout on just chest..and he wasnt puttin up bitch weight either ive seen him 600 on the bench..you could probably break a bat over his chest..and he was in the gym just about everyday.. i dont think over training affected him much either..

so from my experiences and observation..overtraining is based on you and how your body can handle the physical activity of working out..there is no rule..just do you..

Frankie 86

Squat_Heavy
09-23-07, 4:20 pm
Remember dudes, physically enhanced athletes have aloooot further to go before overtraining occures.

Draga
09-25-07, 12:46 pm
Dont mistake overtrainning for lack of mental willingness.

To many pussies hide behind the big word in order to skimp out on a lift day.

so true

moose
10-02-07, 9:57 pm
" theres no such thing as overtraing, only under eating"-Trey Brewer

GJN5002
10-04-07, 12:19 am
overtraining is real -not overrated. Go hit the weights two hours seven days a week and see what happens to you. get in hit it fucking hard for 45 min -an hour and get the fuck out. Go home eat and get your sleep.

Juice77
10-10-07, 9:10 pm
Hey. Im 19 years old i am 180 pounds and currently serving in Afghanistan i do a 3 in 1 split. one muscle a day usually 5 exercises for that muscle. i was recently doing then 5+5 for everything trying to get strong but it go old so i change it into a pyramid workout so im doing a 10,8,6,4,6. i do ab's on my large muscle days and i run on my small muscle days i eat healty take in 200 grams whey protein take my creatine and all that other stuff. As of now im benching 295 squating 405 and deadlifting 455. I feel that as hard as im training that im not getting the results that i should be any advice or changing reps or my routine?

Dead(Lift)
10-10-07, 9:23 pm
I felt it as just a certain area. I was pumped to bench but when deadlift/squat day rolled around... I was out of it. Never overtrain, worse feeling ever, IMO.

MvWarrior27
10-13-07, 12:04 pm
what do you think about 2 workouts a day 5 days a week, overtraining?

Giant Killer
10-13-07, 12:15 pm
what do you think about 2 workouts a day 5 days a week, overtraining?

Read up a bit on overtraining in this thread. Should find the answers you're looking for.

HKR-Chief
10-14-07, 2:08 am
I do pretty well listening to my body to prevent overtraining. My question is in regards to, How do you know when enough is enough during a workout? What I mean is, let's take biceps for example. I generally do about 12 sets between 3 or 4 different movements with heavy enough weights that I can do between 6 - 8 reps. How do I know that's enough? Sometimes I feel a second boost toward the end of that and I feel like I can just keep going. If I were to keep going, would I overtrain that muscle group? Would I do more harm than good?

Also, on some muscle groups such as my back/lats, it's hard for me to feel a burn. Generally to compensate for this, I try to make sure the back, and not the arms, are doing the work, and I try to squeeze at the top of the movements. I vary my exercises from week to week to make sure I'm hitting all the different areas/angles. I generally do about 12-15 sets per workout on back. I want to make sure I'm hitting the muscles hard enough, but I don't want to over do it.

Any thoughts?

Brutus_515
10-18-07, 11:49 am
Overtraining can happen I guess but seriously how do you really know what it too much for you body to handle?....

I dont I am still learning to see how my body clicks....Training, Diet, Stretching, warming up, and Recovery!!! thats what works for me.....

MY OWN opinion is that people want results in the period of a few months they dont want to wait the time in to get where they want......So after a month they gained 2 solid (Quality pounds) pounds and think "I must be over training" I should have threw on 15lbs in that time frame with eating as much as i do and training all the time...they back off training so hard and heavy and become counter productive which make them even more frustraited...but it isnt true It takes time so if you are 5 foot something 160lbs and want to be a soild 225lb body builder expect a long journey it isnt going to happen over the period of a few months. Ask someone who has competed a few times with solid placings...i did and his advice for me is give it 2-3 years until you realize what you want and what you are capible of and you will get your results.

4LIFE
10-31-07, 11:34 am
Having been there. Overtraining takes a long time to recover from. It sucks. I still have to force myself out of the gym. It can get addicting. You think you can achieve more with devoting more time in the gym. It is a growing problem, however it is the time off and how you eat outside of the gym that allows you to get those gains. I personally have to keep it to 3 days a week or even 2 to 3 days inbetween a workout, bc it takes me so long to recover and get my energy back.

Anthony
11-06-07, 9:41 am
Yo fellas, my name is Anthony hailing from sunny South Africa.

I like what Berserker had to say about overtraining!

Overtraining scares the shit out of me so unless one is totally incapacitated and unable to stand (mentally or physically) then you just gotta keep on lifting!

twisted_steel
11-13-07, 2:28 pm
Oops!! I missed out on the biceps.

Biceps

1) Barbell Curls
2) Hammer Curls

As far as brown rice is concerned : Personal Preference.

brown rice is alot more nutritious and it has a smaller effect on ur insulin release compared to white. for sustained release and digestion of carbs, eat brown...but white is a good suggestion PW

ronald1919
11-20-07, 6:40 pm
overtraining might be a bit overhyped. I cant help but feel that I wasted an entire year of hardwork, I was even trainning at christmas, and had little to show for. An hour and a half every night followed by high intensity cardio followed by abs at night. But the real problem was poor dieting which just magnify the effects of overtrainning. My muscles were shrinking every week ( but I never felt tired, actually I was hyper all the time maybe due to cardio)...

I am working out 5 times a week now and I am noticeably bigger, I also cut down cardio and abs completely and eat up to 5000 calories a day. Miraculously, my 6 paks seem to sculpted on me, I dont believe you can overtrain abs, Arnold used to train them every day and he did fine...

Grond Al-Ghoul
11-30-07, 3:28 pm
Dont mistake overtrainning for lack of mental willingness.

To many pussies hide behind the big word in order to skimp out on a lift day.

Good shit... if you feel like you're overtraining, eat, eat, and eat some more.

culturista
12-12-07, 12:41 am
some guys are afraid to have insane workouts scared that they might get overtrained , in some cases are right thats why we have to train smart ,there is nothing written in the books saying that every human needs only ten sets of ten or twelve reps for a bodypart , we all are different , otherwise we all could look like kevin lebrone or flex wheeler ,so what could work for you doesn't mean is gonna work for me , and yes sometimes we need insane workouts to prove ourself that we deserve to be called Animals or to feel alive . like my legs workout the other day 10 sets leg extention ,21 sets squats , 16 sets for hamstrings , god ! i remained pumped for two days and i felt like almost crying in my last sets for squats , damn , i love that feeling.... " the zone " when your mind is all about the challenge , the strenght, the stamina and you just can't stop and i am 100% sure that not many guys had felt that , those who are afraid to overtrain , thats what make the difference between a hardcore bodybuilder and a regular bodybuilder...

simpleguy
12-12-07, 1:02 am
10 sets leg extention ,21 sets squats , 16 sets for hamstrings ,

how long was your workout ?

culturista
12-12-07, 5:43 pm
i don't remember, don't keep track of time , all i am saying is that we need insane workouts once in a while for a bodypart , for example legs i might workout like that maybe the next month , not the next week , see what i mean ? try everything giant sets , descending sets ,supersets .to shock the muscle

pmug0000
12-12-07, 6:38 pm
my legs workout the other day 10 sets leg extention ,21 sets squats , 16 sets for hamstrings , god ! i remained pumped for two days and i felt like almost crying in my last sets for squats , damn , i love that feeling.... " the zone " when your mind is all about the challenge , the strenght, the stamina and you just can't stop and i am 100% sure that not many guys had felt that , those who are afraid to overtrain , thats what make the difference between a hardcore bodybuilder and a regular bodybuilder...

I think your logic is a little off bro. 47 sets for legs is just absurd. You can shock a muscle and train hard, but doing a workout like this and then taking a month definitely IS NOT what makes a hardcore bodybuilder. Ask some of the pros here what their routines are like - I guarantee they will not resemble at all.

culturista
12-12-07, 7:34 pm
I think your logic is a little off bro. 47 sets for legs is just absurd. You can shock a muscle and train hard, but doing a workout like this and then taking a month definitely IS NOT what makes a hardcore bodybuilder. Ask some of the pros here what their routines are like - I guarantee they will not resemble at all.

you miunderstand me brother , i don't do 47 sets every workouts but maybe once a month the next three or four weeks would be using maybe 20 sets for legs ,sometimes i do heavy sets few reps , sometimes light weight lots of sets or reps

krazyassmexican
12-12-07, 8:40 pm
I think your logic is a little off bro. 47 sets for legs is just absurd. You can shock a muscle and train hard, but doing a workout like this and then taking a month definitely IS NOT what makes a hardcore bodybuilder. Ask some of the pros here what their routines are like - I guarantee they will not resemble at all.

i completly agree with you
machine doesnt even go crazy on sets
and look at his quads

the insanity of his workouts come from good form, heavy weights and good quality

quality is always better than quantity

twisted_steel
12-16-07, 11:14 am
when people load up on 30-40-50 sets per work out or even a damn muscle group, i cant seem to think about the fact that if you work your muscles with the right intensity, you will not and i repeat will not have anything left for any quality sets and lifts after that point where ur muscles are fried. and i know people may say, "but twisted, my muscles feel good" then you know what? if they feel good, then you obviously didnt train with hard enough intensity to tear them up. And sure for some it takes more sets than others to reach this point, but remember, going to many many sets, will tear ur muscles and then fucking destroy the fibres, completely. so when u recover, your nto growing....unless u give ur self like 2 weeks for them to recovery before u hit them again. Make sense? i hope so, it does in my mind.

simpleguy
12-16-07, 12:31 pm
i don't remember, don't keep track of time , all i am saying is that we need insane workouts once in a while for a bodypart , for example legs i might workout like that maybe the next month , not the next week , see what i mean ? try everything giant sets , descending sets ,supersets .to shock the muscle

me, again just me, I'd need probably around 2-3 weeks to recover from that... I implement giant sets, drop sets and supersets in my workout to shock the muscles, but that's why I keep it intense and short

there were these threads about DC last days, someone saying it's crap others arguing, here's how I see it: if you do a really intense set (let's say a widowmaker if you heard of that), you won't do that again the same workout... you can't

hjayss
12-20-07, 7:26 am
you miunderstand me brother , i don't do 47 sets every workouts but maybe once a month the next three or four weeks would be using maybe 20 sets for legs ,sometimes i do heavy sets few reps , sometimes light weight lots of sets or reps

I like this 1 big shock once a month huh...when people see the 47 sets they seem to forget that you may be doing calves, quads and hams...I have been to this relm of training and you want to shock em try it I dont have the biggest legs but shit almost 29 inches and at a goal of at least 33 a w/o like this really has helped me on my way. Give it a shot put some sets together make sure it is an off day...lol...

There is another side of the spectrum as well low amounts of set with massive results check this out...http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sisco8.htm

Siderophilic
01-07-08, 12:07 am
Yes. You are overtraining. Big moves like cleans don't just tax one part of your body. You are taxing your entire central nervous system, and you can't ask your body to squat the very next day. When you train heavy you kill your bodies test., creatine stores, and all of its recovery mechanisms. I follow a very brief but high intensity training routine and rest is more important in this way than the actual lifting. If you started to give your body 48-96 hours rest between squat and clean and deadlift etc. days you would start to see massive size gains immediately.

What you say is true. A few guys here are saying you can't overtrain but you can undereat. Not exactly true. During recovery you NEED a post work out meal with a resulting insulin spike otherwise all the BCAA's, protein and carbs in the world are worthless since they aren't getting into the muscle. Any intense (in some cases not too intense) training taxes the muscles locally AND the entire body systemically. Without taking rest days after working out, even working a different muscle, the systemic stress you put your body through has not recovered. But then again, AS can speed recovery but that is a route I choose not to go.

arab910
02-19-08, 3:25 pm
Hey all,

I'm relatively new to the training of monsters, and just had a question. When i feel very energetic after a workout, and i just feel great... is it detrimental to go back 3,4, maybe 5 hours after a workout and lift again. If it's not harmful, should the session focus on the same muscle group?

thanks, men

- a:910

sanga
02-19-08, 4:45 pm
A friend of mine say there is no such thing as overtraining just undereating, get bthe diet and rest right you will recover.

Maybe a little vague but he has a point, lol.

hallde
02-20-08, 12:04 am
Hey all,

I'm relatively new to the training of monsters, and just had a question. When i feel very energetic after a workout, and i just feel great... is it detrimental to go back 3,4, maybe 5 hours after a workout and lift again. If it's not harmful, should the session focus on the same muscle group?

thanks, men

- a:910

I have felt the same way before and actually did go back a couple times and both times i regreted it. I wouldn't say it hurt me anyway but it didn't really help me, all it did was just burnt up the extra energy. I would just save the extra energy and put it into your next workout.

sanga
02-20-08, 4:42 am
Hey all,

I'm relatively new to the training of monsters, and just had a question. When i feel very energetic after a workout, and i just feel great... is it detrimental to go back 3,4, maybe 5 hours after a workout and lift again. If it's not harmful, should the session focus on the same muscle group?

thanks, men

- a:910


No, let that area rest and recover, if you have trained that bodypart hard enough you shouldn`t be able to lift your fork to your mouth to eat let alone go back and train the same bodypart again.

arab910
02-20-08, 10:59 am
hey guys,

i tried to post this in another section of the forum, but being new here and having limited experience with online forums, i had trouble navigating/getting the thread up.

i was basically wondering if it is bad to lift twice in a day. if its ISN'T bad, should the workout focus on the same muscle group as it did the first time?

i appreciate it.

LegendKillerJosh
02-20-08, 12:49 pm
hey guys,

i tried to post this in another section of the forum, but being new here and having limited experience with online forums, i had trouble navigating/getting the thread up.

i was basically wondering if it is bad to lift twice in a day. if its ISN'T bad, should the workout focus on the same muscle group as it did the first time?

i appreciate it.

Definitely not. If you can workout twice in a day, then your first workout was not intense enough. If you are training intensely enough, you shouldn't be able to train even 2 days in a row.

rhane
02-20-08, 12:56 pm
Definitely not. If you can workout twice in a day, then your first workout was not intense enough. If you are training intensely enough, you shouldn't be able to train even 2 days in a row.

Thats not true at all. There are several training principles that utilize two-per-day splits as well as even training the same bodypart twice in the same day. It depends on what you want to get out of it. Just because I lifted heavy chest, for example, doesn't mean my legs are going to be tired in the afternoon. Combined with a proper diet that is high in calories, carbs, and protein, you can easily train again later. When I was training for the olympics I trained twice a day, everyday. Sometimes I even trained 3 times a day. Like I said, depends on what your goals are.

LegendKillerJosh
02-20-08, 11:38 pm
Thats not true at all. There are several training principles that utilize two-per-day splits as well as even training the same bodypart twice in the same day. It depends on what you want to get out of it. Just because I lifted heavy chest, for example, doesn't mean my legs are going to be tired in the afternoon. Combined with a proper diet that is high in calories, carbs, and protein, you can easily train again later. When I was training for the olympics I trained twice a day, everyday. Sometimes I even trained 3 times a day. Like I said, depends on what your goals are.

First off, I was assuming your goals were for muscle size. I know many strongman practice events more than once a day in addition to their weight workouts, because strongman has a lot to do with endurance and tendon strength. Second, just because you trained chest in the morning doesn't mean the body in general is ready to train legs at night. Training taxes all of your bodies recovery mechanisms and central nervous system, and to train again before they are all replenished is counterproductive.

pmug0000
02-20-08, 11:42 pm
Definitely not. If you can workout twice in a day, then your first workout was not intense enough. If you are training intensely enough, you shouldn't be able to train even 2 days in a row.

Even some bodybuilders use a two per day split for bulking or cutting. I personally wouldn't do it myself, and I can't imagine that it is all that productive, but both bodybuilders and strength competitors have been known to do the two-a-days.

LegendKillerJosh
02-21-08, 12:52 pm
Even some bodybuilders use a two per day split for bulking or cutting. I personally wouldn't do it myself, and I can't imagine that it is all that productive, but both bodybuilders and strength competitors have been known to do the two-a-days.

Just because they use it doesn't mean it works. I use to follow a circuit-type program when I began training and it didn't do very much.

simpleguy
02-21-08, 1:51 pm
Machine trains twice a day... read that in his articles
but he also eats a boatload of cals a day, so he recovers much faster

so training twice a day is possible, if you eat a load of food... and assuming you have time

pmug0000
02-21-08, 1:58 pm
Just because they use it doesn't mean it works. I use to follow a circuit-type program when I began training and it didn't do very much.

Just because they use it doesn't mean it works for everybody, but it does prove that it is possible to get good results by training twice a day. And like simpleguy said - Machine trains twice a day so it obviously isn't as bad as you're making it out to be - you just need to eat a ton and get plenty of rest.
Also, what does your circuit training have to do with two a day training? They are completely different.

LegendKillerJosh
02-21-08, 4:17 pm
Just because they use it doesn't mean it works for everybody, but it does prove that it is possible to get good results by training twice a day. And like simpleguy said - Machine trains twice a day so it obviously isn't as bad as you're making it out to be - you just need to eat a ton and get plenty of rest.
Also, what does your circuit training have to do with two a day training? They are completely different.

My point was that just because someone is doing something doesn't mean it is working. I'm saying just like some people train twice a day and don't get bigger I was doing the same thing. I didn't learn until later. And my other point is that anyone who trains twice a day must not be training as intensely as possible otherwise they wouldn't be able to train twice a day. Let me also say this - it may be possible to reach your potential training everyday, I just think you can get their much quicker following a high-intensity routine.

pmug0000
02-21-08, 9:39 pm
My point was that just because someone is doing something doesn't mean it is working. I'm saying just like some people train twice a day and don't get bigger I was doing the same thing. I didn't learn until later. And my other point is that anyone who trains twice a day must not be training as intensely as possible otherwise they wouldn't be able to train twice a day. Let me also say this - it may be possible to reach your potential training everyday, I just think you can get their much quicker following a high-intensity routine.

Look bro, I'm not in any way recommending a two a day lifting routine. I would never do it myself, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to do it.
With that said, it does work for some people. It probably wouldn't work for most, but some people do get good results training that way.

JMC
02-21-08, 10:19 pm
My point was that just because someone is doing something doesn't mean it is working. I'm saying just like some people train twice a day and don't get bigger I was doing the same thing. I didn't learn until later. And my other point is that anyone who trains twice a day must not be training as intensely as possible otherwise they wouldn't be able to train twice a day. Let me also say this - it may be possible to reach your potential training everyday, I just think you can get their much quicker following a high-intensity routine.


Look bro, I'm not in any way recommending a two a day lifting routine. I would never do it myself, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to do it.
With that said, it does work for some people. It probably wouldn't work for most, but some people do get good results training that way.

Some good back and forth...let me add though, I think the ultimate factor is experience. I would NEVER recommend a 2 a day routine to someone who was not highly experienced, in fact I think they would be far past myself which isn't say too much, but you get the point. I have personally witnessed a few people successfully implement a 2 a day routine. But it was very convoluted, not just back and bis; chest and tris, like a regular routine. Different lifts for different body parts at different weight percentages. A bit more than what I care to dive into myself.

So yes and no. If you are that experienced to develop a routine based on that experience and your own body, it could work. No for virtually everyone else! I think there are better and easier ways to achieve your goals.

Enforcer
02-29-08, 12:22 pm
Just outta curiosity if someone were to go into overtraining is it like a full body effect? or would it only effect certain areas of the body?

It would def be a whole body affect. You may feel like you can't sleep, you are sore all of the time, loss of an appetite, and loss of concentration are some things to look for as signs of overtraining.

Ed_UK
03-08-08, 9:49 pm
from my experience overtraining is full body, and totally killer!

If you find yourself sleeping poorly, with constantly poor energy levels and no noticable improvements in any areas of your training its probly best to back off for a week or two, some of my best workouts have been after a week off after 5-6 weeks constant training when I thought I would really struggle.

that said I was working outside from 7.30am to 4 and then cycling 30mins to the gym, then cycling back and not getting home till 9, having to make diner and then be up at 6.30, getting some transport certainly helped!

Wada
03-11-08, 9:34 pm
A good split is Back, Chest, Shoulder, Legs, Bis, Tris, rest all on separate days. Check out MaxOTs workout...

LegendKillerJosh
03-18-08, 11:37 am
A good split is Back, Chest, Shoulder, Legs, Bis, Tris, rest all on separate days. Check out MaxOTs workout...

This is exactly the kind of routine that was bodybuilders in the 70s and 80s were doing, and are known now to be obsolete. People realize more now than ever how important rest is, and is probably the reason there became more first-rate competitors like Dorian Yates who used a 3/day/week routine. Tell me this - instead of the routine you suggested, don't you think it would be better to do chest and back, legs, shoulders and arms in 3 workouts instead of 6 workouts and have more rest days to actually grow. Lets say you train chest on Monday, by Tuesday it is not recovered yet...so going to the gym to do legs is a bad idea, because now your legs are going to need your bodies recovery mechanisms as well, so your chest never gets to fully recover no matter how much you eat.

***WTM***
03-21-08, 12:40 am
I have always liked the quote by someone on here.....goes a little like this...

"there is no such thing as overtraining, just under-eating".

I believe that to be true.

You have to have common sense. Doing the same body part every day for two weeks will be overtraining. Doing the body part once or twice a week with proper nutrition and rest might not lead to overtraining, but some would call it that.

I feel some people want to use "overtraining" as an excuse to slack off.

Don't confuse overtraining with burn out. Mix it up...change things up...it will do wonders for the mind and body.

LegendKillerJosh
03-23-08, 11:15 am
I have always liked the quote by someone on here.....goes a little like this...

"there is no such thing as overtraining, just under-eating".

I believe that to be true.

You have to have common sense. Doing the same body part every day for two weeks will be overtraining. Doing the body part once or twice a week with proper nutrition and rest might not lead to overtraining, but some would call it that.

I feel some people want to use "overtraining" as an excuse to slack off.

Don't confuse overtraining with burn out. Mix it up...change things up...it will do wonders for the mind and body.

Eating a lot still can't override the stress that a high intensity workout puts on your body, especially the central nervous system. I think your right, some people may use overtraining as an excuse, but it is a real thing. And sometimes people can't identify that easily. They may train on a Tuesday after lifting Sunday or Monday, and have a good workout. The truth is, they couldn't waited till Wednesday and Thursday and had a much better workout.

The Lad
03-24-08, 5:53 pm
More is not always better..........most of us have to learn this the hard way by getting injured! It's been three weeks since the Arnold and today will be my first heavy bench press workout since doing 405 x 40 in the cage! I will probably deadlift heavy for the first time on Wednesday..... My body hurt for 3 weeks after pulling 845 x 3 and 900 x 1.
I've had to train light every since then and it's been driving me nuts!!!

LegendKillerJosh
03-25-08, 12:49 pm
More is not always better..........most of us have to learn this the hard way by getting injured! It's been three weeks since the Arnold and today will be my first heavy bench press workout since doing 405 x 40 in the cage! I will probably deadlift heavy for the first time on Wednesday..... My body hurt for 3 weeks after pulling 845 x 3 and 900 x 1.
I've had to train light every since then and it's been driving me nuts!!!

Yes - I have professional backup. A lot of people also mistakenly believe that as they progress into bodybuilding they need more sets, more workouts, and less rest - when this is the opposite of the truth! The fact is, the more weight you can handle, the more intense your workouts are, the LONGER it takes to recover from them.

BigTig1165
04-09-08, 4:27 pm
I just turned 42 and am in the best shape of my life(5'8" 190lbs, , but I'm noticing that I've been really worn out and sick lately which has impacted my time in the gym. This while eating better than I ever have and, for the most part, getting 7 to 8 hours of sleep each night.

One thought (I clearly don't know much about this, but would like to know what others know), don't different types of "supplements" allow the user to recover much more quickly, along with higher protein synthesis, etc.? Doesn't this allow some bodybuilders to recover more quickly and/or stay away from overtraining?

Just a thought and question...I realize this topic might be taboo, and if so not a problem.

Thanks - Chris

BigTimCoats
04-19-08, 3:24 pm
I just turned 42 and am in the best shape of my life(5'8" 190lbs, , but I'm noticing that I've been really worn out and sick lately which has impacted my time in the gym. This while eating better than I ever have and, for the most part, getting 7 to 8 hours of sleep each night.

One thought (I clearly don't know much about this, but would like to know what others know), don't different types of "supplements" allow the user to recover much more quickly, along with higher protein synthesis, etc.? Doesn't this allow some bodybuilders to recover more quickly and/or stay away from overtraining?

Just a thought and question...I realize this topic might be taboo, and if so not a problem.

Thanks - Chris

lets hear a lil more about ur training and diet cuz it hard to diagnose without alot of info and yes certain supplement do help recovery and protein synthesis

Matt Dickerson
04-20-08, 1:53 am
I just turned 42 and am in the best shape of my life(5'8" 190lbs, , but I'm noticing that I've been really worn out and sick lately which has impacted my time in the gym. This while eating better than I ever have and, for the most part, getting 7 to 8 hours of sleep each night.

One thought (I clearly don't know much about this, but would like to know what others know), don't different types of "supplements" allow the user to recover much more quickly, along with higher protein synthesis, etc.? Doesn't this allow some bodybuilders to recover more quickly and/or stay away from overtraining?

Just a thought and question...I realize this topic might be taboo, and if so not a problem.

Thanks - Chris

This is the age where a lot of men that are still very active start to experience declining levels of testosterone production. There are many doctors out there that specialize in hormone replacement therapy and you are the age where most will consult with you without going through a huge process. There are 3 guys that train at my gym and are in their mid and late forties and have prescriptions for testosterone. They are very healthy and are still keeping up us young guys. One of the 3 guys just started the program about 3 months ago. His test levels were very low and they prescribed him 250mgs of test every week. He just got his levels tested last week and he is now on the high side of normal and he feels like a twenty year old again. Look into it Chris, it will be the best 60 dollars a month you can spend.

sanga
04-29-08, 8:50 am
I thought for my 1000 post I`d post about overtraining, lol.

There is a fine line between training hard and gaining strength, condition and muscle and that of overtraining.

How do I know when I`m overtraining?

Sore throats almost constantly, ulcers, feeling tired, no appetite, I get all of these.

What do you do, cut out some training days, stop training for a week or so?

I cut back on the amount of training, not necessarily the frequency but the amount of time on each session, so if I was training for 90 mins 4 times a week in the gym and then on top of that doing 3 weekly cardio sessions of 45 mins I would be looking to cut the training session times down as well as the cardio.

So gym sessions would be cut by decreasing sets and making sure the sets I did were quality ones (they should be anyway) and maybe leaving some exercises out, maybe just drop all laterals and replace with sets of shoulder press.

Cardio would be cut to high impact sprinting or the like or alternating between the two.

Using your health as a guide to how you are training is common sense but I see it all the time, people train through the signs and end up with flu and in bed for a week, can not train and gain nothing, overtraining and undereating.

I have to check this with myself constantly, even recently I was overtraining and cut back on the days I trained, I then started to look at where I was going wrong, too many sets, too long workouts, by cutting back to 4 days from 5 and cutting sets I recovered then I built back up to more sets again but by training smarter with high intensity I can get everything covered without getting ill.

This subject could cover a book, one I may have to write but at least by being aware of what is happening with our bodies we can learn to train rather than overtrain, so train smart and train hard.

Joff the Beast
07-22-08, 1:14 pm
Im bulking since a few years now (was 124lbs at first and am now 18lbs).

Since a few days now Im not able to eat the amount of food that I used too. I can only eat about 60% of it. I have no appetite and its hard to eat.

I also suddenly lack motivation about training. Not that I dont want to train, just that I dont feel like it (I normally always look forward to it).

No weight loss or noticable strenght decrease yet at least.

I thought it was stress related as Im in a stressful period of my life but it might be the traning itself as Im on a very hard program since a few weeks.


Day 1 : Legs (Heavy)Arms(light) Shouders(light)
Day 2: Back (heavy) Chest (Heavy)
Day 3: Legs (light) Shoulder &traps (heavy), calves (medium)
Day 4 : Arms (Heavy) Chest (light) Back (light)
Day 5 : Off
Repeat.

Since Im very busy I was able to get only about 7 hours of sleep each day. I was eating a lot of food.

Now I have this feeling inside me that I should take a week off, but on the otherhand I took one about 6-7 weeks ago.

I think Im gonna take this week off and begin traning back on the next one (Im gonna be in vacation in my hometown and traning at my first gym ever will motivate me even more).

Whats your take on it?

simpleguy
07-22-08, 1:20 pm
yo Joff... I'm no expert, but to me your CNS is definitely asking for a short break... take a few days off, sleep more then those 7 hours (that is one of the reasons you don't feel like training)

at least for a while hit those bodyparts only once a week bro, the fact that you hit them twice a week is causing this too

eat, rest, and maybe have a cheat meal... keep stress as low as possible... and come back strong

Joff the Beast
07-23-08, 11:10 am
Yeah Simpleguy, Im taking the week off, entering an overtraining state would be a disaster for me. I already miss the gym though.

Gonz
08-03-08, 1:06 am
Alright well I've been wondering if I'm pushing the overtraining limit. I'm not really in pain or hurting or anything, but I wonder if I'm just doing too much for my body to keep up. I do something called P90X, I do it at home and it's a combination of different exercises. I love it, and I've been doing it for almost a year now. I've progressed up to P90X+ which is basically a more fast paced and much more rigorous form of the same program, with new exercises. Anyways, I'm in the military, and we have mandatory PT in the mornings Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Usually it's not much, and it's mostly a "do your own thing". Well I'd like to be overall pretty fit. I workout in the evenings, everyday, with one day being a rest day, which usually consists of a good stretch program. I figure during Mandatory PT I'd like to get back into HIIT. I'd do 20 mins of HIIT Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays, then in the evening continue with my regular workouts. Right now I only workout once a day. Anyone think this might be bad? Advice?

Jonisocool
08-03-08, 1:32 am
You should be fine.

My platoon's been doing run's at our own pace usually MWF too, and then they get cut at the gym for 45 minutes. I just do the runs with them, then do my own thing later in the evening when I goto the gym.

Gonz
08-03-08, 1:49 am
Thanks, I don't think I've ever experienced overtraining so I can't say for sure. I did get patella femoral syndrome once though, I've recovered from it. I think that was mostly due to me doing a lot of plyometrics workouts though, so I stopped that.