My keto diet, carb loading and stimulant questions.

[fireman9]

I just started the keto diet. I am 207.6 lbs last time I checked. My first day looked like this.

50 grams whey 1 tablespoon natural pb w/ water

Animal Pak, omega 3-6-9, 3 nox3

8 oz Chicken small handful of unsalted cashews

3 uniliver, Vitamin C

50 grams whey 1 tablespoon natural pb w/ water

10 oz filet side salad tablespoon of olive oil and vinegar

50 grams whey 1 tablespoon natural pb w/ water

3 uniliver, vitamin c, 3 NOX3, omega 3-6-9, Shock Therapy, TEST, Nitro

50 grams whey 1 tablespoon natural pb w/ water

3 unilver, Nitro

8 oz chicken handful unsalted cashews

ZMA, melatonin, 3 GH MAX, Omega 3-6-9, Tribulus PRO

I found this to be easy. It was just the first day that I took milk out of my diet and it felt great. No bloat, gas or anything. I just felt better not taking mass amounts of 2%. I ate 7 times because I was awake from around 10 am. till 3:30 a.m. My last meal was at 1:30. Everything was around 2.5 hours apart minus the preworkout shake and post. I will cut back to 6 meals as of today. I don't feel so bad for the 7th meal due to my back day consisting of 6 sets bb rows and 8 sets deads all heavy in which I repped 455 on my last set and that was just the warm-up.

ok now here is my question. Well questions. Carb loading. It's to be done 1 1/2 days correct. They say eat what you want but damn. Something mental about throwing down pizza when I am attempting to cut to a new low. How many carbs do I NEED to take in during this time approximately. Also the use of stimulants I understand is to be kept to perhaps 2 cups of coffee or equivalent a day. Why is this? All of these questions I tried to research. They were just too broad and lacked a detailed answer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[simpleguy]

I thought you were doing Ox's diet but it seems not... well, imo you should check that one out, on it there's no such thing as 1-2 days of carb loading (also, imo that will knock you out of ketosis), only one cheat meal a week

too many stims are never good whether or not on a keto, but you can easily have more than 200mg of caffeine (~2 cups of coffee), I'd say up to 400-500 mg of caffeine you're ok... now I'm not sure you can take Shock Therapy on a keto - I really doubt it, it has like 9gr of carbs, mostly maltodextrin, so I'd save it for your bulk

[fireman9]

I thought you were doing Ox's diet but it seems not... well, imo you should check that one out, on it there's no such thing as 1-2 days of carb loading (also, imo that will knock you out of ketosis), only one cheat meal a week

too many stims are never good whether or not on a keto, but you can easily have more than 200mg of caffeine (~2 cups of coffee), I'd say up to 400-500 mg of caffeine you're ok... now I'm not sure you can take Shock Therapy on a keto - I really doubt it, it has like 9gr of carbs, mostly maltodextrin, so I'd save it for your bulk

That was what I was thinking. This morning I read this:

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won?t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

I dropped storm out of the mix to limit the water retention. I will find another preworkout supp. to replace the shock. I appreciate the help.

[simpleguy]

That was what I was thinking. This morning I read this:

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won?t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

I dropped storm out of the mix to limit the water retention. I will find another preworkout supp. to replace the shock. I appreciate the help.

that is more like carb cycling, and I guarantee you won't stay in ketosis by having 1 1/2 days of carb loading... I'm not saying you not to do it, but it's not keto

[fireman9]

that is more like carb cycling, and I guarantee you won't stay in ketosis by having 1 1/2 days of carb loading... I'm not saying you not to do it, but it's not keto

It didn't sound right. So is there a certain time that is recommended to place this one meal?

[fireman9]

I think I will probably stay on the keto diet then as my body fat gets as low as I want it I'll start cycling yet limiting my carbs during the weekend. As I begin bulking again in 3 months or so I'll start introducing more healthy carbs throughout the week to the same diet and upping my protein serving from 8 oz or 10-12. No more dirty bulking.

[IronWilson]

The reason why you don't want to consume too many stimulants is that it has the potential to increase cortisol (in a calorie restricted state.) which will eat up your muscles.

[DMH56308]

I only have one meal of clean carbs on either friday or saturday, not all weekend!

[bobbymart]

I have lost 60+ lbs on keto in the past 10 months all I ever have is a 1 hour cheat 1 day a week on the same day every week but I go the 1st 2 weeks with no cheat that is the way polumbo and ox say to do it make sure you have you'r macros' in check as well

[justinbrown]

It didn't sound right. So is there a certain time that is recommended to place this one meal?

i too would like to know this

[thenothingthatis]

that is more like carb cycling, and I guarantee you won't stay in ketosis by having 1 1/2 days of carb loading... I'm not saying you not to do it, but it's not keto

I think this is what they call the anabolic diet. You eat no carbs Monday to Friday, and carb-load on saturday and sunday. They say it's effective. I don't know though. Is keto good for bulking or cutting while on a strength training program? I'd assume it makes you weak. I was on the Atkins diet for more than a year and lost a lot of fat AND muscle.

[gjn5002]

if youre doing keto you dont do a carb load. if you are carb cycling you do carb load so which are you doing? Im carb cycling and learning as i go but ive got it down (pretty much) so if you are carb cycling i can help. pm me or check out my journey. I do 3 days under 100 carbs, usually around 50, as close to 400 grams protein as i can and about 50 grams of good fat then one day where i do 400 carbs, 200 protein, only fat from lean protein. There are several ways to carb cycle and everyone doesn it differently.

[Pizzalamp]

i too would like to know this

just pick the same day every week...and have it as your last meal

[simpleguy]

I think this is what they call the anabolic diet. You eat no carbs Monday to Friday, and carb-load on saturday and sunday. They say it's effective. I don't know though. Is keto good for bulking or cutting while on a strength training program? I'd assume it makes you weak. I was on the Atkins diet for more than a year and lost a lot of fat AND muscle.

ok, first of all, nobody here recommended atkin's diet... if you're doing keto Ox style (healthy fats, 50/50 (macros) between protein and fats), you shouldn't be loosing any muscle

also, whilst you might gain a bit of muscle on a keto, it is not ideal for muscle-building purposes and neither are 5 days with no carbs ... so when you wanna bulk, have your carbs

keto doesn't 'make you weak'

[fireman9]

if youre doing keto you dont do a carb load. if you are carb cycling you do carb load so which are you doing? Im carb cycling and learning as i go but ive got it down (pretty much) so if you are carb cycling i can help. pm me or check out my journey. I do 3 days under 100 carbs, usually around 50, as close to 400 grams protein as i can and about 50 grams of good fat then one day where i do 400 carbs, 200 protein, only fat from lean protein. There are several ways to carb cycle and everyone doesn it differently.

I'm just experimenting right now with keto. I haven't done a carb load yet. I'm not really looking for a set guideline of eat this and that and this time because I'm not the average 200lbs bodybuilder. I am hypoglycemic as well as a massage/sports therapist. Saturday I had 11 clients most of which were deep tissue. That was 11 hours of strenuous full body work where I never sit down. My metabolism is fast. Ox stated he used to be fat. I think this diet works amazing for him as well as many more. This was more to strip my diet down and this slowly place healthy carbs at the time that I need them as an individual until I feel I no longer feel weak.I want to gain at a moderate pace without meals consisting of half a pizza and RG shake before bed. I never gained a lot of fat with it. I just didn't feel healthy. Thanks for the advice. I might try carb cycling if this doesn't work.

[fireman9]

In a week or so I am going to start changing my first meal to 5 whole OMEGA eggs 3 whites and 1 slice of wheat toast (dry)

with my shake pre workout I am going to have 1 cup of oatmeal w/ splenda

With my high fat meal consisting of 8 oz. of steak or fish I am going to have a small sweet potato plain.

I know this is now longer keto but I don't wish to start another thread. Any input on this. I'm just a week or two from being from being as lean as I would want to be. Lastly my friend is wanting to go keto and I think it would be perfect for his body type but he doesn't eat nuts. The peanut butter in the shake doesn't bother him. What could replace them?

[thenothingthatis]

simpleguy, i think the atkins diet and keto are basically the same. high protein, moderate to high fat, and very low or no carb. they just differ in terms. I know because I've read about atkins and was on it for a year; and I've read about keto. They are basically the same. They're just called differently.

bobbymart, a one hour cheat meal once a week? do you time this as a postworkout meal? because I can eat probably 3000 cals in an hour lol.

[simpleguy]

simpleguy, i think the atkins diet and keto are basically the same. high protein, moderate to high fat, and very low or no carb. they just differ in terms. I know because I've read about atkins and was on it for a year; and I've read about keto. They are basically the same. They're just called differently.
.

KETOSIS is a state in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into ketone bodies which are used by the body for energy.

Atkins is just a type of keto diet, where the recommended macros are 5/30/65, from what I know... on Ox's diet (which is another type of keto diet) your macros are like 50/50 between fat and protein...

so atkins and keto are not the same

[thenothingthatis]

ok man, my mistake, thanks for the clarification.

[Meat]

If your doing any kind of carb-loading phase just remember that you want very little fats...the more carbs the less fat, the less carbs the more fat...its all relative

[fireman9]

If your doing any kind of carb-loading phase just remember that you want very little fats...the more carbs the less fat, the less carbs the more fat...its all relative


I read that. I'm going to to swich to a loading phase soon. My problem was on wednesday I train legs. After my first week of keto I couldn't do anymore than a few reps without intense head aches. I just felt weak. I am wondering if it's worth the trade off if I can't do my workouts. I was almost wondering of carbing up in the middle of the week which would be great because my day of it Wednesday. It would fuel my deadlifts and squats and taper off. The rest of my workouts don't seem effected too negatively. Would this work?

[bobbymart]

if you have you'r macro's down perfect and you eat absolutley no fiberous or starchy carbs and drink 1+ gallons of h20 a day you should be fine. are all of these things in line?

[bobbymart]

simpleguy, i think the atkins diet and keto are basically the same. high protein, moderate to high fat, and very low or no carb. they just differ in terms. I know because I've read about atkins and was on it for a year; and I've read about keto. They are basically the same. They're just called differently.

bobbymart, a one hour cheat meal once a week? do you time this as a postworkout meal? because I can eat probably 3000 cals in an hour lol.

I ate a large pepperoni pizza and some bread stix for my last cheat hour.

[Meat]

when it comes to carb clycling and carb-loading you all need to remember that in this particular way of dieting you arnt really eating "cheat meals". It is not meant to stuff your face with whatever the hell you want. The intention is to cycle carbs in order to deplete your glycogen stores. then for one full day, whichever day that may be for you, you eat a shit load of carbs, hence the "load", to replace glycogen and flood your muscles with nutrients while keeping the fats extremely low.

You want to eat all high GI carbs on these days so that doesnt mean stuff your face with pizza, ice cream , and fast food. That means keep your protein intake normal, your fats very low, and eat kids cereal, pancakes, waffles, granola bars, etc. how many carbs you take in on these loading days will be varied depending on the trainee so you need to experiment. Remember this is all specific to carb cycling and as mentioned there are also a few different ways to go about cycling carbs.

[simpleguy]

if you have you'r macro's down perfect and you eat absolutley no fiberous or starchy carbs

hey bro, hope you don't mind, but fibrous carbs are veggies (like lettuce or broccoli for instance)... so they should be eaten even on a keto

[krazyassmexican]

hey bro, hope you don't mind, but fibrous carbs are veggies (like lettuce or broccoli for instance)... so they should be eaten even on a keto

lettuce is not recommended because it expands in your stomach and you'll always be hungry

broccoli has carbs
it is a big no

[simpleguy]

lettuce is not recommended because it expands in your stomach and you'll always be hungry

broccoli has carbs
it is a big no

well, anyway, I meant veggies in general

[bobbymart]

yeah but only green veggies the greener the better and they still have to fall in you're macro's Me I ate a lot of green beens and pea's.

[adidamps2]

lettuce is not recommended because it expands in your stomach and you'll always be hungry

broccoli has carbs
it is a big no

niether of those statements make any sense. and your over all logic fail here. (IMO)

1st if a food is expanding and taking up space in your stomach, how would that make you hungry? BTW Metamucil works in the same fasshion as lettuc ein this case, expanding and taking up space. never drank 15+g of that shit and said to myself, "damn you know I'm hungry as hell now." romain lettuce, spinach and other leafy fiberous veggies are recommended for the fiber content and general health benifits.

second the comment on broccoli having carbs is silly, PB has carbs too, but you eat it.
broccoli will not cause insulin spikes, so it can't be because it is too insulingenic, and the few carbs, in a servnig, are too few to knock you ot of ketosis in and of them selves.

plus lets not even get started on the fact that broccoli is concidered a negative calorie food (meaning your body burns more calories trying to digst it, than the food it self provides), celery also falls into this catergory as do a few other foods.

[adidamps2]

KETOSIS is a state in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into ketone bodies which are used by the body for energy.

Atkins is just a type of keto diet, where the recommended macros are 5/30/65, from what I know... on Ox's diet (which is another type of keto diet) your macros are like 50/50 between fat and protein...

so atkins and keto are not the same


since Akins and Keto are not the same, does that mean D.Palumbo's/OX diet are also not the same as Keto?

[gjn5002]

adidamps2, i think that is a great point. natty pb has carbs, usually like 3 after you take off for fiber and broccoli has 3 also, i think?

[adidamps2]

adidamps2, i think that is a great point. natty pb has carbs, usually like 3 after you take off for fiber and broccoli has 3 also, i think?

Thanks, I only bring this up, because I see it alot here, about how Broccoli has CARBZZZ!!! and it drives me bat shit. the logic in that is silly, especially concidering how few actual carbs it has (after removing fiberous carbs) and comapring it too other exceptable "carbs" containing sources on a keto diet. yes there are certain greens, that have more carbs over all than fiber, but broccoli is not one of them, and should not be avoided due to this faulty thought process.

[simpleguy]

since Akins and Keto are not the same, does that mean D.Palumbo's/OX diet are also not the same as Keto?

I don't understand your point... I was saying that Atkins is a keto diet and Ox's/Dave's is another keto diet (you're still in ketosis on both)... that's what I meant

[Coach Fowler]

Guys, make this stuff simple for yourself. Take your body weight & multiply it by 25. That number is the number of calories to eat in a day. Those calories are to fuel your workout & keep you going. Split these calories into more than 5 meals a day. Split it 50% protein & 50% fat. NO carbs! You must drink at least one gallon of water (preferably ice cold) per day. That is where everyone should start to get the stasis going.

Cheat day: One meal. This is to be quality carbs. Don't load up on crap. The calories for this meal are above & beyond your normal caloric intake.

By the way, to really succeed at this, you've got to be totally anal about it. Even a bite of a cookie or bagel will throw you off.

Enjoy!

[krazyassmexican]

Guys, make this stuff simple for yourself. Take your body weight & multiply it by 25. That number is the number of calories to eat in a day. Those calories are to fuel your workout & keep you going. Split these calories into more than 5 meals a day. Split it 50% protein & 50% fat. NO carbs! You must drink at least one gallon of water (preferably ice cold) per day. That is where everyone should start to get the stasis going.

Cheat day: One meal. This is to be quality carbs. Don't load up on crap. The calories for this meal are above & beyond your normal caloric intake.

By the way, to really succeed at this, you've got to be totally anal about it. Even a bite of a cookie or bagel will throw you off.

Enjoy!

i remember last time i was on ketosis
i was doing it on a 1:1 ratio to lean body mass and cheatin on cake and cookies
and lost 40lbs

[adidamps2]

I don't understand your point... I was saying that Atkins is a keto diet and Ox's/Dave's is another keto diet (you're still in ketosis on both)... that's what I meant

take a look at the bolded area in your other post I qouted.
KETOSIS is a state in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into ketone bodies which are used by the body for energy.

Atkins is just a type of keto diet, where the recommended macros are 5/30/65, from what I know... on Ox's diet (which is another type of keto diet) your macros are like 50/50 between fat and protein...

so atkins and keto are not the same

we can see here that is not what you said...but if that is not what you meant, fine.

[Punisher]

I Saw Evan Centopani 4 Weeks Out Of His Last Show That He Won And Turned Pro At, Eating Veggies Along With His Protein. So, Yes You Can Eat Veggies On Keto. The Amount Of Carbs Are Negligble Because Evan Does Follow 0 Carbs Preworkout.

[krazyassmexican]

I Saw Evan Centopani 4 Weeks Out Of His Last Show That He Won And Turned Pro At, Eating Veggies Along With His Protein. So, Yes You Can Eat Veggies On Keto. The Amount Of Carbs Are Negligble Because Evan Does Follow 0 Carbs Preworkout.

evan was eatin veggies twice a day (4cups in total from what i remember)
the last days before contest
he would do

veggies/protein and fats/protein days to shock the body and shrink the stomach

[Punisher]

evan was eatin veggies twice a day (4cups in total from what i remember)
the last days before contest
he would do

veggies/protein and fats/protein days to shock the body and shrink the stomach

yea i know he was eating them, but u just said that broccoli was no good bc it has carbs

[krazyassmexican]

yea i know he was eating them, but u just said that broccoli was no good bc it has carbs

ask him if he eats broccoli?

actually he was the one who told me not to eat broccoli
his recomendation was

spinach
green beans
asparragus
alfalfa sprouts

[J-Dawg]

Broccoli has the highest amount of carbs out of the ones mentioned-- about 6 grams of carbs per serving (90g or so) so there would definitely be better choices.

[Coach Fowler]

actually he was the one who told me not to eat broccoli
his recomendation was

spinach
green beans
asparragus
alfalfa sprouts[/QUOTE]

I eat spinach every day... it has the material necessary to assist in the building of red blood cells. Those cells are what carries oxygen to the muscles. Green beans have a great variety of minerals. Asparragus assists in detoxifying the blood & assists the kidneys. Alfalfa sprouts work with both the liver & the kidneys.
Eat up!