Critique my WSBIII routine

[Littlefry]

Well after hearing only good things about WSB training I decided its time to dive into weights head first and give it a shot for 6-8 weeks. I went with the new WSBIII since ive been training for 4 years I modified it by adding a Lower body repetition day instead of a dynamic jump training day since I need no jump training. Anyways I chose more compound exercises to add more mass here is the split anyone who has done westside I just your opinions on my set-up, any dis or advantage you may see. Anyways here it is

Sunday – Max-Effort Upper Body

Max-Effort Exercise
Incline barbell bench press Work up to a max of 3-5 reps

Supplemental Exercise
Flat DB bench press 2 sets of 15 reps

Horizontal pulling / Rear delt superset
DB rows 3 sets of 8 reps
Rear Delt Flyes 3 sets of 8 reps

Traps
Barbell shrugs 3 sets of 8 reps

Elbow flexor exercise
Barbell curls 3 sets of 8 reps


Monday – Repetition Lower Body

Repetition Exercise –
Barbell Squats 4 sets of 12-15 reps

Quad Superset
Leg Press 2 sets 12-15 reps
Leg Extension 2 sets 12-15 reps

Calves High Repetition
Seated Calve Raises 3 sets of 15-20 reps

Weighted Abdominals
Cable Crunches 4 sets 10-15 reps
Weighted Decline Sit-ups 4 sets of 10-15 reps


Wednesday – Repetition Upper Body

Repetition Exercise
Incline DB bench press 4 sets of 12-15 reps

Vertical pulling / Rear delt superset.
Lat pulldowns 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Upright Rows 3 sets of 8-12 reps

Medial delts
Barbell military press 4 sets of 8-12 reps

Traps / Arms superset
DB shrugs 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Skullcrushers 3 sets of 8-10 reps


Friday– Max-Effort Lower Body

MAX-EFFORT LIFT
Barbell Squats - Work up to a max reps of 3-5

UNILATERAL MOVEMENT
Walking lunges 3 sets of 6-12 reps

HAMSTRING / POSTERIOR CHAIN MOVEMENT
Leg Curls 3 sets of 8-12 reps

Ground-based, high-rep abdominal circuit – Example: sprinter sit-ups, V-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts. Perform 10-20 reps of each exercise and go through the circuit 2-3 times. Rest 1-2 minutes between circuits.

[Littlefry]

anyone have some input

[Matt Dickerson]

The program looks fine and you should do well.

One thing I really don't understand is why this routine is called westside. Nothing is really west side about it. There is no Max effort work or Speed work and that is what westside is.

[SMaLLnWeaK]

i would replace your RE days with DE days..

[Littlefry]

There is max effort work on two days for bench and squat

[Hercules]

I went with the new WSBIII since ive been training for 4 years I modified it by adding a Lower body repetition day instead of a dynamic jump training day since I need no jump training.

The jump training is for power development (certain plyometric exercises can also help). Power is the amount of work done in a given amount of time. The less time it takes for the work to be performed, the more power is generated. Jumping is a great example of power. One can not jump slowly; it is a very forceful movement. Same goes for dynamic work. By reducing the weight used and increasing the speed at which the movement is performed, you generate power.
The program you put together is fine, but it's geared more for strength and mass. To me, it looks like more of a bodybuilding-type plan than powerlifting. I am unsure of what your goals are, though.

[painisprogression]

I am not the expert on Westside training, but I see it this way. You should have an ME day for the squat/dl and an ME day for the bench. 72 hours after that you should have a DE day in the same manor.
Example:
Sun- DE Squat/DL
Mon- Off / Conditioning (Accessory day)
Tues- DE Bench
Wed- Off / Conditioning (Accessory day)
Thurs- ME Squat/DL
Fri- Off / Conditioning (Accessory day)
Sat- ME Bench

This is the basic Westside template. It is being used by thousands with great success. It is based of the Russian principles. We as Americans could learn something from them because we are cluless at times about how to strength train.

Your template looks alright, but you should change your ME movement every week or every other week. Check out Perlipins principle on % training and the required reps to use. You should always aim for a max in the Westside model. You may not hit a true PR every time, but it will be a max for that day. Chains and bands are perfect for accomadating leverage and will work wonders. Check out Elitefts.com and the logs that they lifters post. It has a lot of great info.

******For the guy who says this doesn't look Westside... Westside Barbell (hense the westside template, owned by Louie Simmons in Columbus OH) has all the info you need. He has taken the Russian power concept of conjugate training and made it his own produces some of the strongest men in powerlifting. Look at Chuck Vogelopohl, Matt Wenning, Phil Harrington, Donnie Thompson and more. Louie is a great guy and will help anybody. Check out the articles that he has posted on www.westside-barbell.com or read almost any PowerliftingUSA magazine.******

I train Westside and have my first meet in October in Morgantown WV for the USPF. When I started about a year ago with Westside (I study and read and critique everyday. You can never stop learning about the Russian training principles and physics.) my max squat was 300, now its about 400, but with a suit its 500. Bench was 225, now 305, but in a shirt 410. My dl was 315 and now RAW (don't use a suit) its 430. The method works. I have also put on 16lbs of pure lean mass from the use of Westside in the past year.

painisprogression@yahoo.com
E-mail me if you have anything else.

Looking for a training partner in the Canonsburg PA area to train for my upcomming meet.

[Matt Dickerson]

There is max effort work on two days for bench and squat

No there isn't. Max effort is max effort. It is the absolute most you can do for one rep. You said 3-5 reps which is doing rep work for weights in the 80-90% range. What you are doing will actually be a much higher amount of volume over time as well.

Also... In westside the flat bench and squat aren't utilized that often as a ME movement. They are the movement that is tested in contest once every 12 weeks or so. West side uses other movements in a conjugated manner to build those movements.

Again, I can see that your routine resembles westside in respect to having a similiar upper and lower split and your routine also emphasis on some of the same accessory work as westside, but in reality that doesn't make it westside at all. Doing ME and DE work using the conjugated method for the ME work and waving the DE work for the bench squat and deadlift is what makes westside westside.

Come to think of it, your program looks to be way too much volume if you plan on doing max sets of 3-5 every week for benching and squatting plus all the other work you have outlined. Max sets of 3-5 reps for those movements is way more taxing on the body than singles.

I am not telling you that what you plan on doing is bad. I am just telling you that it isn't a westside program.

[Littlefry]

here is the link that i made the program template from http://defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm
Iam training more for mass gain and strenght gain both at the same time, I do not plan to compete in PL contest, I plan to keep bulking till I hit around 225 then cut for a show next year as a natural, and from what ive read WSB is a good program to do so with. Now iam no stranger to the wieghts and have utilized many training programs such as 5x5, OVT, GVT to add some mass to my frame, and iam currently in my third year at university in kineseology to earn my 4 year degree and get my fitness and personal training certs.

painisprogression if you think DE days would be more benificial to me the Repitition days let me know. For what I want to dso I figured the repitition days would be more benifical since iam trying to gain size and strenght to get the best of both worlds, on ME day increase strenght on my major lifts, then on REP days focus on growth and taxing the muscle with a different rep range. I have not incorprated Deadlifts into the routine becuase I injured my lower back a month or so ago and figured I would place them back into my program in 6-8 weeks jsut to give my lower back a bit of time off.

[painisprogression]

For the squat and deadlift I would use a DE day in this manor. Set a 6 week program.
Week 1- 50% of 1RM- 8 sets 2 reps
Week 2- 52.5%- 8x2
Week 3- 55%- 8x2
Week 4- 57.5%- 6x2
Week 5- 60%- 6x2
Week 6- Test 1RM

For the Bench do the same thing on your DE day, but instead of 50%-60% use either 60%straight through all 6 weeks and try to always get faster at moving the bar or wave in 2.5% increments from 40%-50%.

The idea here (according to the Tendo Unit) if you can press 300lbs for a 1 rep max you should be able to move 50% of that weight with the same 300lbs of force or greater. You should be able to move the bar 3 good reps in 3 seconds or less. If the bar slows take weight off untill you have progressed to the proper bar speed. This example is for the bench only though. For the squat you must move the bar fast, but when you hit the box (if you have one) relax for a split second and then explode back off. Hit the reps quickly, but you must have complete control at the same time.

The ME days are always different. Like Louie says out of a 10 week microcycle they will use a for of goodmorning 7 out of 10 times. This will strengthen your lower back, hips, hamstrings and upper back. It is an essential movement. Other than that you can pull from various pin heights or while standing on a 2 or 4 in block (be careful), zercher squats are great and many other movements. For the bench, I stick to cycling a few movements, board presses, close grip, incline bench, floor presses (I believe that these helped the most), reverse band presses.

DE days are a must in a conventional Westside template, but if you are using Joe DeFranco's Westside Barbell for Skinny Bastards template things change. This is something that will build differently and I am not too farmiliar with it. He uses this for a lot of his football players and more in the off season. I believe that everyone should use a powerlifting program for atleast 12 weeks every year to build a better base. Westside is the perfect template. I can give you mine schedule if you want just e-mail me and let me throw it together for you. You could go onto www.elitefts.com and ask Joe DeFranco in the Q&A section and he will answer you. Just keep checking the site. He won't send you an e-mail. The Q&A is for everybody to read.

[Matt Dickerson]

here is the link that i made the program template from http://defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm
Iam training more for mass gain and strenght gain both at the same time, I do not plan to compete in PL contest, I plan to keep bulking till I hit around 225 then cut for a show next year as a natural, and from what ive read WSB is a good program to do so with. Now iam no stranger to the wieghts and have utilized many training programs such as 5x5, OVT, GVT to add some mass to my frame, and iam currently in my third year at university in kineseology to earn my 4 year degree and get my fitness and personal training certs.


Let me ask you something... You say that you are no stranger to weights and have utilized many training programs and from the amount of time that you have been working on your degree in kineseology it would seem that you probably have been training for at least 3-4 years. Are you still a "skinny bastard" after this many years of training?

If you are still skinny and not very strong after all this time and are thinking about the WSB4SB program this would indicate to me that you have a couple of issues that aren't really related to the program that you are doing but more of an issue of your diet for performance and weight gain and possibly your training effort and consistency.

The program the you choose is probably not as important as just eating a lot of good food and being consistent with your strength gains. Many people that love this lifestyle tend to do so much volume that it makes it hard for them to grow, especially if they are natural. Look at 70% of the training logs on this site and you will get what I am talking about.

If you don't plan to compete in powerlifting than I would agree 100% that the speed training is probably going to be a waste of time for you. Rep work is better for your goals. If you are on the thin side for you height it might not make much sense to do heavy singles at this point. But.... According to Joe Defranco You shouldn't have a barbell on your back twice per week either if you are skinny. Is there are reason why you don't want to do any of the jumps?

One last question... Since you are experienced to lifting, done many different programs, and almost have your degree in kinesiology, why don't you just create your own program based upon what movements personally work best for you, the goals you are trying to attain, and how you personally recover? You should know by now what movements work best for you and how they affect your physique.

Sorry if I seem like an interrogator with all my ranting and questioning.

[IRBS]

Let me ask you something... You say that you are no stranger to weights and have utilized many training programs and from the amount of time that you have been working on your degree in kineseology it would seem that you probably have been training for at least 3-4 years. Are you still a "skinny bastard" after this many years of training?

If you are still skinny and not very strong after all this time and are thinking about the WSB4SB program this would indicate to me that you have a couple of issues that aren't really related to the program that you are doing but more of an issue of your diet for performance and weight gain and possibly your training effort and consistency.

The program the you choose is probably not as important as just eating a lot of good food and being consistent with your strength gains. Many people that love this lifestyle tend to do so much volume that it makes it hard for them to grow, especially if they are natural. Look at 70% of the training logs on this site and you will get what I am talking about.

If you don't plan to compete in powerlifting than I would agree 100% that the speed training is probably going to be a waste of time for you. Rep work is better for your goals. If you are on the thin side for you height it might not make much sense to do heavy singles at this point. But.... According to Joe Defranco You shouldn't have a barbell on your back twice per week either if you are skinny. Is there are reason why you don't want to do any of the jumps?

One last question... Since you are experienced to lifting, done many different programs, and almost have your degree in kinesiology, why don't you just create your own program based upon what movements personally work best for you, the goals you are trying to attain, and how you personally recover? You should know by now what movements work best for you and how they affect your physique.

Sorry if I seem like an interrogator with all my ranting and questioning.


x2!

[Littlefry]

Well to start off matt here are my current stats

Age: 21
Height: 6ft
Weight: 203-205 pounds
BF: 11%
Bodytype: ectomorph

Lifts
Bench:275 pounds x 5 reps
Squat: 415 pounds x 5 reps
Deadlift: 315 pounds x 5 reps

Now Iam doing this program based on the great feedback it has received, and I like to experiment with new routines to see what there about and learn from them to adapt some of the techniques into my own training routines later on. I have composed my own workout routines for myself which have work well, but as I stated above I like to experiment and see what happens.

As for the skinny bastard part I admit when I start training I was 6ft and 145-150 pounds, and in 4 years I put on 50 pounds of muscle with limited fat gain. There for when reading through defrancos actricle I realize he said that a skinny bastard shouldnt have a barbell on his back twice a week, seeing as Iam no longer a skinny bastard I opted to add in a REP leg day instead of a jump training day as I feel it will benifit me more.

On my diet and supplementation side I keep it in check as well. I dont screw around with to many supplements and stick with the basics of protien, creatine, a multi, EAA, weight gainer, and the ocassional m-stak or other animal products. My diet has cheat days here and there since I am an ecto and can get away with those. Other wise its eggs, steak, chicken, potatoes, rice, oatmeal, beef, milk as more of my staple foods.

Dont worry about all the questions and the so called "intergration", we cant all know everything about training and the different techniques there is always more to learn from the people around you so your advice and question are appreciated bro.

I hope the helps a little

Littlefry

[Matt Dickerson]

I would say go for your routine as you have outlined but I wouldn't squat twice per week or deadlift twice per week. I would make sure to rotate at least 4 movements that work well for you on the heavy days and do something else on the higher rep day.

Here is an Example of what I think would work:

Week 1. Monday Stiff leg deads for sets of 10 / Friday Box squat for 3 rm
Week 2 Monday Leg press for max sets of 10 reps / Friday Close stance, arched back GM for 3rm
Week 3 Monday Romanian Deadlifts max set of 10 / Zercher squats up to 3rm
Week 4 Monday free squats for max set of 10 / Rack pull below knees up to 3 rm
Week 5 Wide stance arched back GM's 10rm / Free Squat up to 3 rm
Week 6 START back to week one but try to do what you did on the 3rm for 5 reps
Week 11 Deload
week 12 Test your 1rm on squat bench and deadlift

This is an example and you can put in the movements that work best for you and use the same concept for upper body.

[Littlefry]

thanks matt for now I think I will use the template I set up for 6-8 weeks then judge my progress on it from there. Later on I will use PL style template to gain some extra strength, but I wont implement this for a few months yet but I will ask for yours and pains advice on the route to take when I do implement it, Thanks for you guys help and knowledge so far though

Pain I would love to see your schedual that way I can have a template when I do a 10-12 week PL routine

[Matt Dickerson]

thanks matt for now I think I will use the template I set up for 6-8 weeks then judge my progress on it from there. Later on I will use PL style template to gain some extra strength, but I wont implement this for a few months yet but I will ask for yours and pains advice on the route to take when I do implement it, Thanks for you guys help and knowledge so far though

Pain I would love to see your schedual that way I can have a template when I do a 10-12 week PL routine

Good luck brother... Start a journey. I would like to see how it works out for you. Some powerlifters out there squat, bench and deadlift 3 times per week or more. You just have to remember not to go to failure on your sets and keep your overall volume relatively low. Those are movements that can cause over training quickly if you don't keep a close eye on the amount of work you are doing.

[Littlefry]

matt I started a journey 6 months ago, but just recently started another one you can view it via my sig.