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bobbyj654
02-05-07, 1:22 am
hey guys,

do any of you know if rippetoes is good for improving strength at all?

has anyone here ever tried it?
if so, how was yur experience, and did you improve anything from it?

shotgun
02-05-07, 12:24 pm
I was doing it for a few months and I concluded that adding 2,5KG on the squat every monday(and keeping the same weight through out the week) is the most beneficial:monday:+2,5=barely able to finish but no failure ,wednesday:same weight as monday=so-so ,friday:same weight again=feels good

reasons:
- you dont have to step back in case you add too much,you somehow "get used to it" when you try with the same weight again
- this way you can add 10KG/+ to your squat in a month
- as with other exercises - add +2,5KG every week(not every WO),again,by this youll make constant gains without failing
- takes much less time,allows you to work accessory work(grip,forearms,abs n shit)
- builds strenght like a mofo
- its allways good to swith regular splits with this program to get that raw strenght
- with the correct choice of exercises AND proper form, you work even rear delts and lower traps and other muscles not so often seen in full-body WOs


Im beginning this WO again today
my routine goes like this:

A:
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Dead 1x5
Dips 2x8
/accessorry work

B:
Squat 3x5
Standing Military 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x5
Chin-ups 2x8
/accessorry work

deffinitely try it out for at least a month

I personally added 20+ KG to my squat and 40+KG to my dead during 2months(no BS here)

theharjmann
07-17-09, 4:28 am
Hey,

Just been reading up on Mark Rippetoe's "coaching techniques" on the internet recently, and upon my cyber travels have come across many forums about him.

Mixed opinions to say the least; some love him, some think he's OK and some fuckin hate him!

I was just wondering what some of your guys' thoughts were.

Thanks

MVP
07-17-09, 5:06 am
Hey,

Just been reading up on Mark Rippetoe's "coaching techniques" on the internet recently, and upon my cyber travels have come across many forums about him.

Mixed opinions to say the least; some love him, some think he's OK and some fuckin hate him!

I was just wondering what some of your guys' thoughts were.

Thanks

When it comes to squat, deadlift, and power clean instruction, Rippetoe is the best. I truly mean that, no one is better with coaching those lifts then he is.

However, he has had so many surgeries and rotator cuff injuries due to his flame against horizontal pulls and dedicated rotator cuff work, it's costing him severely.

His routine "The Texas Method" = phenomenal. His routine "starting strength" is the way to teach beginners how to damage their rotator cuffs. Rippetoe hasn't been able to perform a bench press in five years or more due to his shoulder injuries, if you bench and don't row, overhead press and don't you'll have the anterior delts pull your shoulder girdle forward and it will severely damage your rotator cuffs - like Rippetoe.

I don't like his flame against rowing, I do like his squatting, deadlifting, and power clean advice though. If he would incorporate rows and pullups more often I'd say he was the man.

Joe DeFranco is my idol when it comes to training.

If you're interested in Rippetoe, just buy "starting strength" or PM me and I can give you details on the book. Or you can visit strengthmill.com, that's the forum Rippetoe posts on.

theharjmann
07-17-09, 5:25 am
Rippetoe doesnt like rows and pullups???

I think the guy is an idiot then!

GJN5002
07-17-09, 1:35 pm
He has some hilarious quotes

t_mh
07-17-09, 1:52 pm
Yeah he does. One of my favorite things about him.

MVP
07-17-09, 3:53 pm
Rippetoe doesnt like rows and pullups???

I think the guy is an idiot then!

Or rotator cuff work, which is why his shoulder is in such bad health.

GJN5002
07-17-09, 4:18 pm
Or rotator cuff work, which is why his shoulder is in such bad health.

Does he ever give a reason why hes so stubborn about roto cuffs and rowing? It doesnt make sense that hes so knowledgeable about one thing and a moron about something else.

J Wong
07-17-09, 4:50 pm
Mark Rippetoes routine is great for beginners. I have read numerous trainees testimants that say so, and I have seen it work for many of my friends. I have two friends that follow this and are getting stronger by the week, and I have two that used to do this as beginners, and now one of them follows 5x5 and the other is on a typical split. The one now on 5x5 used to post here on this forvm a lot, and I saw his lifts on Rippetoes skyrocket in months. I'm talking about 3x5 with 100lbs on squats to 225-235 3x5... all to depth or lower.

And I don't understand the talk about Rippetoe's Starting Strength and neglecting rowing. Bent over barbell rows are included on the program.

IRBS
07-17-09, 5:22 pm
Some Rippetoe Quotes...
________________________________________
Found these online, words of wisdom:

"There is never an absolute answer to everything, except of course that you have to do your squats. "

"If every day of your life you are told by authority figures that the Earth is flat, you will be scared of falling off the edge whether you want to be or not. "

(A guy asks if hack squat is useful since his college does not have any squat racks only squat machines)
Rip: I recommend that you change colleges.

"You guys that worry about eating clean are actually merely bodybuilders looking for justification for your obsession with abs. You cannot get big and strong on 3000 kcal/day. And you cannot eat 7000/day and eat perfectly "clean"."

"On resting in between reps: It varies with the length of the set. 5s or fewer get a breath to reset. Longer sets might take 2 breaths. During the last few reps of a true 20RM squat, just do what Jesus tells you. "

"Trust me, if you do an honest 20 rep program, at some point Jesus will talk to you. On the last day of the program, he asked if he could work in. "

"There is no such thing as “firming and toning.” There is only stronger and weaker. "

"I don't read around the web much, because I'm old and busy, and just haven't got time. If I'm on the Internet, I'd rather be looking at porn. "

"Baby mammals drink milk, and you sir, are a baby mammal. "

"Girls don't like big pecs! they like money and "this"!(as he indicates with his hand mid thigh on the leg) "

"You must wear socks or workout pants on the Dead Lifts. We don't want your DNA on the barbell."

"Any idiot can get on a treadmill and watch TV and then take great pride in the fact they've 'exercized. "

"When a guy (Alex) asked what to do about his balls hurting after squats...
Alex, buddy, you're on your own here. Unless we get some other input. My balls haven't hurt since 1973, when I learned how to finish what I started. "

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pu$$y. "

"There is no substitute for milk. Sorry. "

"Pierre, if you are eating 5500 calories a day, then I am a female kangaroo with a Sonic Drive-In franchise and a heroin habit. "

"On steroids:
There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pu$$y."

"On the possibility of a failure to deadlift resulting in stroke:
Deadlifts that are too heavy to pull generally don't take very long; the bar just kinda lays there. So if trying to move immovable objects was dangerous from the standpoint of stroke, the history of the human race would be littered with stupid people's corpses. "

"On not calling "The Press", "The Shoulder Press:"
We just call it the press, because how could you press without the shoulders? You can leg press... but that's gay. "

On drinking not 1, but 2 gallons of milk/day:
"But you would be ****ting primarily cheese. Are you ready for this? "

"But then again, those who argue against squatting and deadlifting on the same day may just be pu$$ies. "

"Now I also know that you're supposed to 'listen to your body', but my brain says 'don't be a pu$$y, and just lift the ****ing weights', and that's just what I do. "

"Newb: Got any good ab exercises?
Rip: Got any better questions? "

"Go home and tell Mom that you're a man now. "

"If you want to look like some Abercrombie model, then find another program and enjoy your nice, easy training style. If you are serious about adding muscle to your frame, then get under the damn bar and make it happen. "

"The deadlift is more functional in that it’s very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy **** up off the ground. "

on U2:
"I don't like Bono. He needs to train more. "

"I recommend against a wooden squat rack, for much the same reason that I recommend against a wooden car. "

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there. "

When asked if masturbation or sex hinders strength:
"Yes, it does. Never do either. Ever. Not if you want to be strong like bull. "

"It is not necessary to bump the shins with the bar, or dig a ditch in the shins on the way up. Good control of the weight is necessary to avoid this, and it should be avoided or sores get established on the shins that will be a problem for a long time - every time the trainee deadlifts he will break the sore open and make a big mess on his socks or worse, the bar"
__________________

IronWilson
07-17-09, 5:32 pm
He has way too much of an obsession with squats for my taste.

MVP
07-17-09, 6:27 pm
Does he ever give a reason why hes so stubborn about roto cuffs and rowing? It doesnt make sense that hes so knowledgeable about one thing and a moron about something else.

We all have our pros and cons really.

But Rippetoe claims he believes heavy presses are enough to keep the rotator cuff up to maintenance. It's not true though, the overhead press is anterior delt dominant, the shoulder is rotated upright and the anterior delts becomes the prime mover.

Rippetoe is a hell of a guy, no bullshit. I like that about him. His squat, deadlift, and power clean demonstration is the best around, if you would read starting strength, I've read it several times, then you'd see just how knowledgeable he really is.

What you push something away from your body you should pull it towards your body for balance at the joint. The opposite of extension is flexsion; if the joint is capable of pushing and pulling it should push and pull.

Flexsion is involved with any extension but the part of the range of motion where flexsion occurs is eccentric and therefore you're working with gravity and not against it. When you work against gravity, the muscle shortens. When you're working with gravity - the muscle is trying to shorten but is being forced to lengthen due the resistive force being greater than the force generated through the muscle contraction.

They call it "motive" and "resistive" forces, during the eccentric contraction (when flexsion occurs) it is moving with gravity, therefore gravity is the motive force and you are the resistive force, during the concentric contraction - you're pushing or "pulling" against gravity and therefore the principals are reversed. Your body is the motive force (demanding change in speed or direction) and gravity is the resistive force, resistive the force of your body.

Every routine that has a horizontal push should require a horizontal pull; every routine that requires a vertical push should require a vertical pull. Balanced training is working the joint within it's natural capabilities and nothing less. Which is why you push use a pullup and barbell row everytime you use a bench press and overhead press.

To balance the shoulder joint and prevent shoulder imbalance, which is a principal cause of the rotator cuff injuries, muscles that make up the rotator cuff have different abilities and different assistance within different movements and planes. Muscles that make-up the rotator cuff are the suprapinatus, infrapinatus, teres minor, and subscapular muscles, these muscles have different demands during different functions and learning their prime function is essential for balancing a routine. The suprapinatus assists in lateral abudction, while the infrapinatus and teres minor assists in transverse abduction.

Those are just a few reasons why you should push and pull in the same planes and work the joint within it's natural capabilities. We train in a sport where imbalance benefits no one.

shizz702
07-17-09, 10:23 pm
Rippetoe doesnt like rows and pullups???

I think the guy is an idiot then!

He is not at all against rows or pullups.

If you refer to SS second edition, he goes into detail about the correct form on them in his "Useful Assistance Exercises" section.

He believes that barbell rows should start and end on the floor for each rep, making it much harder and more productive.

He also recommends alternating pullups and chins to balance out the arms.

The man is far from an idiot, and imo one of the authorities in the weight training world right now. I've yet to see anyone that knows as much about squatting and deadlifting as him lol.

And he is no armchair athlete, he has squatted, benched, and pulled some weight in his powerlifting days. Pulled and squatting 600+ I believe.

MVP
07-17-09, 10:49 pm
He is not at all against rows or pullups.

Yes he is.


As coach Rippetoe has said many times, “My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: f*** barbell rows. Really. F*** them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you’ll have your own opinion and you won’t have to worry about mine.”

That is from the starting strength.net webpage, Rippetoe has very frequently in many different interviews announced that he hates rows.

He is not against chin-ups, but he is dead against rowing.

As far as his lifts go, here they were.

611 lbs in the squat, 396 lbs in the bench press, 633 lbs in the deadlift, and a 1643-lb total.

shizz702
07-17-09, 11:42 pm
Yes he is.



That is from the starting strength.net webpage, Rippetoe has very frequently in many different interviews announced that he hates rows.

He is not against chin-ups, but he is dead against rowing.

As far as his lifts go, here they were.

611 lbs in the squat, 396 lbs in the bench press, 633 lbs in the deadlift, and a 1643-lb total.

You got me there lol.

But he does include rows in SS 2 edition.

MVP
07-17-09, 11:49 pm
You got me there lol.

But he does include rows in SS 2 edition.

I haven't seen the second addition, although I am a pretty huge Rippetoe fan. I agree that his squat and deadlift advice is superior to anyone elses, when I read starting strength the first time I said "this book is the SHIT!" I would recommend anyone read it.

Do you mean the Texas method? As the 2 edition?

shizz702
07-18-09, 11:59 am
Do you mean the Texas method? As the 2 edition?

No, in Starting Strength 2 ed there is an additional chapter called "Useful Assistance Exercises" and in it he explains the correct form for barbell rows, and various other exercises, even curls lol!

MVP
07-18-09, 5:59 pm
No, in Starting Strength 2 ed there is an additional chapter called "Useful Assistance Exercises" and in it he explains the correct form for barbell rows, and various other exercises, even curls lol!

Hm, I wasn't aware of that. Starting strength is on my bookshelf, after I'm certified I'm definitely going to give it another read. Then possibly invest in practical programming of strength training. I posted on strength mill and Rippetoe is coming out with the 2nd addition of practical programming of strength training, he said it's going to involve a lot of questions regarding people concerning "overtraining" (which is misunderstood), I'm looking forward to that coming out.

But I agree with you, when it comes to power cleans, squats, and deadlifts. There is no better coach than Mark Rippetoe.

shizz702
07-18-09, 6:52 pm
Hm, I wasn't aware of that. Starting strength is on my bookshelf, after I'm certified I'm definitely going to give it another read. Then possibly invest in practical programming of strength training. I posted on strength mill and Rippetoe is coming out with the 2nd addition of practical programming of strength training, he said it's going to involve a lot of questions regarding people concerning "overtraining" (which is misunderstood), I'm looking forward to that coming out.

But I agree with you, when it comes to power cleans, squats, and deadlifts. There is no better coach than Mark Rippetoe.

Do you have the original Starting Strength, or the 2nd edition? Cause the additional chapter is only isn't in the original version.

In the 2nd edition he's explains the correct form for all kinds of good additional exercises such as dips, squat variations, rack pulls, GHR's, etc. You know, the stuff that actually works lol.

And I'll definitely be looking into the new PP. Have you read Strong Enough? That was a pretty good read too.

MVP
07-18-09, 7:23 pm
Do you have the original Starting Strength, or the 2nd edition? Cause the additional chapter is only isn't in the original version.

In the 2nd edition he's explains the correct form for all kinds of good additional exercises such as dips, squat variations, rack pulls, GHR's, etc. You know, the stuff that actually works lol.

And I'll definitely be looking into the new PP. Have you read Strong Enough? That was a pretty good read too.

I have the first addition of starting strength, it explains the press, the squat, the power clean, the deadlift, and the bench press.

I didn't know the second addition reviews different squat variations, and GHR's. I firmly believe if you're doing squats you should do GHR's to balance the knee joint. I'll be checking into the second addition. Where would you find it at?

shizz702
07-18-09, 7:34 pm
Where would you find it at?

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247956342&sr=8-1

Notice out of 156 reviews it averages 5 out of 5 stars!

MVP
07-18-09, 7:36 pm
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247956342&sr=8-1

Notice out of 156 reviews it averages 5 out of 5 stars!

I saw that on Mark's signature on strengthmill, just for some reason didn't put 2 and 2 together to think it was the 2nd addition.

So Rippetoe approves of Yates rows in the 2nd book? Have you read the whole book? If I'm not mistaken, "Yates rows" are barbell rows that touches the ground after each rep.

shizz702
07-18-09, 9:13 pm
I saw that on Mark's signature on strengthmill, just for some reason didn't put 2 and 2 together to think it was the 2nd addition.

So Rippetoe approves of Yates rows in the 2nd book? Have you read the whole book? If I'm not mistaken, "Yates rows" are barbell rows that touches the ground after each rep.

No, Yates rows are done with an upright torso done without the bar touching the ground, while Rip opts for doing them back parrallel to the floor, doing each rep from a dead stop on the floor.

Haven't read the whole book, just skimmed through various parts from time to time. I did read the original version in its entirety though.

Elite
07-18-09, 9:25 pm
I have no idea if its possible to email PDF files. But if so, i have SS 2nd Edition (23mb PDF) downloaded on my PC. If i can share it, i'd be happy to.

IRBS
07-19-09, 1:24 pm
Rippetoe is just like anything else, it should be incorperated just like we incorperate many other ideas and methodologies into our training.

There is no one best way to do things.