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ramrod
02-05-07, 5:55 pm
Are there are any benefits of doing a failure set at the end of your exercise?

COLE
02-05-07, 6:01 pm
Are you talking total failure or temporary failure. I try to do a weight with each of my sets for the amount of reps and it is all I can do to get the reps with that weight. This is temporary until the next set. So in a sense I go to failure with pretty much every set unless I started to light.

I'm not real sure what your asking as far as doing a failure set at the end of your workout. Are you saying that only on your last set should you do that exercise movement until you cant do another rep?

Can you be a little more specific.

ramrod
02-05-07, 6:05 pm
Most likely the last set, and you just put a certain amount on and rep until you fail... We did that in weight training for football, and I wasn't sure how it was helping me...

COLE
02-05-07, 6:17 pm
I might would do something like that if I wanted to blast a particular muscle as a shocker but not on a regular basis. Say like leg day, you could do 100 reps of squats or something, lighter weight and a few rest periods to get them all done. I wouldn't do something like that everyday though. That's just my opinion. You can do anything you want that's the nice thing about bodybuilding. You have the freedom to do your own thing and be proud of it.

Anybody else have any recommendation?

speedster00
02-05-07, 7:11 pm
Are you talking about a set? or a rep? I train every set to failure. Meaning every last rep is until I cant lift it anymore. I dont stop at 6 when I can squeze 7

ramrod
02-06-07, 1:21 am
so basically you dont have a rep scheme, you just go to failure on each weight?

pdiesel
02-06-07, 2:58 am
forced reps are great for extra pumps and intensity..go for 2-4 extra..

Kiwi129
05-02-07, 1:06 am
Hey Guys,

Search was no help here. I'm suprised there's not a sticky about this topic already: Sets to failure. Yes? No? If so, how often? For what exercises? Pros? Cons?

I was reading G Diesel's post in the one thread about doing sets from singles all the way to sets of 20 or 30 reps for a given exercise. That really will blast a muscle... but wouldn't failure hit more fibers? I've heard of/read all the articles that say training to failure is only 5% more effective and whatnot and that it's downfall is that it's severely taxing on your central nervous system... which complicates recovery. A ton of guys use the quote "stimulate, don't annhialate." and I think that holds true. How often do you guys do them and for what exercises?

DRIVEN
05-02-07, 1:12 am
Good post i will be checking back on this thread because iw as also wondering the same....i usually go to failure at the end of my four sets every time i work out and im EXTREMELY dead at the end...i think it is suppsoed to be that way but it takes its toll after a while....

driven

Kiwi129
05-02-07, 1:22 am
Hope this thread gets off the ground heh. It's tough starting them at night...

never_2_big
05-02-07, 1:37 am
i only ever hit complete muscular failure on one exercise for each body part, crossovers for chest, pullovers for back, laterals for delts and some type of cable exercise for bis and tris, this just ensures they are full of blood before i head home to the kitchen...

BigAnt
05-02-07, 2:35 am
Hey Guys,

Search was no help here. I'm suprised there's not a sticky about this topic already: Sets to failure. Yes? No? If so, how often? For what exercises? Pros? Cons?

I was reading G Diesel's post in the one thread about doing sets from singles all the way to sets of 20 or 30 reps for a given exercise. That really will blast a muscle... but wouldn't failure hit more fibers? I've heard of/read all the articles that say training to failure is only 5% more effective and whatnot and that it's downfall is that it's severely taxing on your central nervous system... which complicates recovery. A ton of guys use the quote "stimulate, don't annhialate." and I think that holds true. How often do you guys do them and for what exercises?

************************************************** ***********************

YOU CAN TRAIN HARD OR YOU CAN TRAIN LONG...YOU CAN'T DO BOTH

A muscle does not know the difference between a barbell bench press, dumbell press, chest machine press or a cable x-over...it know training it hard and giving 100%!

Machines-cables isolate the muscle more, free weights use stabilizers and incorporate more muslces in action...

Intensity rules!

As long as you train intense...it can be 3 sets of 6 reps on the squat and on rep 4 you are dead, but, you push through 2 more reps...OR...doing 1 set of 100 reps on the leg press ( I do this and dare you all to try it) and at rep 75 you are ready to "loose your cookies" but you reach down deep--D E E P and blast out 25 more reps!

Both are intensity!

Get it?

Again--just what I think and do...being 40 and with SOME joint pain - all heavy workouts day in and day out...is not for me...Sure when I feel good
P-O-P Pack on Plates (not talking about on the dinner table) but when joints are sore, just go a tad lighter and use machines but, use intensity --
ALWAYS!

mgmmaze
05-02-07, 2:38 am
************************************************** ***********************

YOU CAN TRAIN HARD OR YOU CAN TRAIN LONG...YOU CAN'T DO BOTH

A muscle does not know the difference between a barbell bench press, dumbell press, chest machine press or a cable x-over...it know training it hard and giving 100%!

Machines-cables isolate the muscle more, free weights use stabilizers and incorporate more muslces in action...

Intensity rules!

As long as you train intense...it can be 3 sets of 6 reps on the squat and on rep 4 you are dead, but, you push through 2 more reps...OR...doing 1 set of 100 reps on the leg press ( I do this and dare you all to try it) and at rep 75 you are ready to "loose your cookies" but you reach down deep--D E E P and blast out 25 more reps!

Both are intensity!

Get it?

Again--just what I think and do...being 40 and with SOME joint pain - all heavy workouts day in and day out...is not for me...Sure when I feel good
P-O-P Pack on Plates (not talking about on the dinner table) but when joints are sore, just go a tad lighter and use machines but, use intensity --
ALWAYS!
ANT as usual your posts are golden and informative.

JMC
05-02-07, 12:22 pm
Great post....1x100 huh....interesting concept ;-)

G Diesel
05-02-07, 12:28 pm
Hey Guys,

Search was no help here. I'm suprised there's not a sticky about this topic already: Sets to failure. Yes? No? If so, how often? For what exercises? Pros? Cons?

I was reading G Diesel's post in the one thread about doing sets from singles all the way to sets of 20 or 30 reps for a given exercise. That really will blast a muscle... but wouldn't failure hit more fibers? I've heard of/read all the articles that say training to failure is only 5% more effective and whatnot and that it's downfall is that it's severely taxing on your central nervous system... which complicates recovery. A ton of guys use the quote "stimulate, don't annhialate." and I think that holds true. How often do you guys do them and for what exercises?

Thing is, both a max single and a 30 rep set done til you can't get another rep, are sets taken to failure. You are correct in thinking that ballistic "power bodybuilding" as I call it will put a strain on your CNS. This is where your recovery factors (food, sleep, supplementation) become all the more critical. Peace, G

Brute Strength
05-02-07, 12:29 pm
************************************************** ***********************
doing 1 set of 100 reps on the leg press ( I do this and dare you all to try it) and at rep 75 you are ready to "loose your cookies" but you reach down deep--D E E P and blast out 25 more reps!

Im definetly going to try this next leg workout i get a chance to use the leg press. How much weigh though? Alot or Medium?

JMC
05-02-07, 12:32 pm
Im definetly going to try this next leg workout i get a chance to use the leg press. How much weigh though? Alot or Medium?

What do you mean how much weight....you're talkin about 125 reps....you do however much weight you can!!

BigAnt
05-02-07, 7:43 pm
Im definetly going to try this next leg workout i get a chance to use the leg press. How much weigh though? Alot or Medium?

gotta get a feel for it, you should get tired and feel like shit at rep 75..push for 25 more reps, if at rep 75 is easy, go heavier next time!

Maccabee
05-02-07, 7:49 pm
I did that before of 100 reps for leg press. It aint no easy task and the vicous burn is crazy

Kiwi129
05-03-07, 1:10 am
So you should never purposely train to failure? I, like the guy a few posts above, usually will hit the muscle groups with maybe one or two sets to failure in the whole workout. Whether it's pushing for one more rep of 4 x 6 barbell bench or whether it's later in the workout and it's for one more 3 x 8 dumbbell bench. As long as I'm getting in a few of them for each muscle group then I'm in good shape? I look at it as a good sign the muscle is almost fully fatigued... but by no means would I start a workout regimen doing every single set of every exercise to failure, as I'm sure most of us would agree it would quickly lead to recovery issues? Thanks again guys.

BigAnt
05-03-07, 1:14 am
So you should never purposely train to failure? I, like the guy a few posts above, usually will hit the muscle groups with maybe one or two sets to failure in the whole workout. Whether it's pushing for one more rep of 4 x 6 barbell bench or whether it's later in the workout and it's for one more 3 x 8 dumbbell bench. As long as I'm getting in a few of them for each muscle group then I'm in good shape? I look at it as a good sign the muscle is almost fully fatigued... but by no means would I start a workout regimen doing every single set of every exercise to failure, as I'm sure most of us would agree it would quickly lead to recovery issues? Thanks again guys.

very smart!

fultz2400
05-03-07, 1:23 am
hey ive been doing a workout where you do 2 warmup sets for every exercise then one workset but on the workset you go to failure and have your spotter help you on 2-3 more forced reps. i guess that is going against what most people are saying in this thread, but my 8 rep bench has gone from 175 to 190 in 3 weeks and it seems to be working really well. I have 2 workout partners that also do this workout and they have both had similar gains and one had even better gains than i did.

Kiwi129
05-03-07, 1:31 am
I think most of us were referring to a higher-volume workout and sets going to failure. If most of us are doing split training we're doing from 9-16 sets per muscle group, and I was saying I usually get in one or two sets to failure towards the end and it ensures the muscle is fully fatigued. If you do two warm ups and only ONE set to full failure and then forced reps for one or two exercises (per muscle group...) it shouldn't cause recovery issues. I've heard of workouts like that before bro. BUT if you started doing our higher volume routines with one or two sets to failure per exercise you'd be approaching 6-10 sets to failure in ONE WORKOUT! Way too much in my opinion. If yours isn't broken... don't fix it. I've been told that countless times with how much I worry heh. Good luck bro.

RoJoHen
05-03-07, 2:50 am
I honestly think the only healthy way to train to failure is by doing a drop set at the end of you workout. You can have a rep scheme (10, 8, 6, 4, whatever), but the last set you should lower the weight and do as many reps as you can just to get extra stimulation in the muscle.

A set of 100 seems silly to me, not to mention time-consuming.

DieMause
07-31-07, 4:48 pm
Hi, I am not sure of the failure sets. Is it good to do all 5 sets to failure or I shouldn't do all to failure? For example my 1 rep max is 200 lbs for bench press. should i do like this? 100x20 120x8 140x8 160x8 180x5 or it would be better to do all sets to failure? Like 150x12 165x9 175x6 185x3 ?? At the moment i am doing all sets of bench press to failure. It seems everything to be ok in strenght and mass gains, just wanted to know your opinion? Maybe this question is a little dumb but i am newbie :)

the-craig
07-31-07, 4:57 pm
na isnt dumb, i wouldnt take every set to complete failure, i normaly do my warm up sets then take my sets to near failure at 8-10 reps, last set of an exersice i might take to failure or have spot push weight up bit on last sets, i dont know if any of that makes sence but hopefuly helps lol

ChandlerXJ
07-31-07, 5:01 pm
I've never been too sure on failure only because I don't understand it. Wow, that was really redundant.

I don't get the benefits from doing it all the time, I am curious what the dudes are gonna say.

Riesjs
07-31-07, 5:15 pm
Pick a rep range you want to work in, for example 12-10-8-6. You want to use enough weight on your set of 12 where if you were to do 13 you wouldnt be able to accomplish it. You want to go as heavy as you can while being able accomplish you rep goal. I do not reccomend failing on every set. Using a fail method is another tool, its like drop sets, forced reps...etc. Yes, you want it to be challenging but accomplishable. IF you are going to go to fail, I would make it your last set.

ANewBreed
07-31-07, 5:50 pm
only problem with going to failure every set is you exhaust your energy systems before sufficient muscle fiber damage has been achieved. so like one of the guys above me said, pick a weight where u would fail at 12 reps....thats different then putting on 180, doing as many as u can, and then throwing on 200 and doing as many as you can. Your goal (if it is muscle growth), is to damage the fibers...and that takes time under tension

jonsbsn
07-31-07, 5:59 pm
make sure your warm ups are NOT to failure. Because they aren't your working set, they are what they are: warmups. I also recomend doing 3 sets of warmups before your first working set only. Example: pick a weight you can do like 30 times and do it 12. Followed by a weight you can do 20 times and do it 8. Then find a weight you can do 10-12 and do it only 6 times. (now your muscles are ready to work but you aren't tired!) I've been able to put up more weight later on if I'm properly warmed up. Then you are ready to bash your muscles for the rest of your sets. I've been seeing great results going to failure in almost everything. Not complete failure, but just to where I know I can't put up another one. I stay in the 4-8 rep range usually. I also do drop sets and such as mentioned above. But yeah, I've always gone to failure and have never stopped seeing results for the last 2 years. Just, as I stressed above, WARM UP!

Rage
07-31-07, 8:35 pm
Hi, I am not sure of the failure sets. Is it good to do all 5 sets to failure or I shouldn't do all to failure? For example my 1 rep max is 200 lbs for bench press. should i do like this? 100x20 120x8 140x8 160x8 180x5 or it would be better to do all sets to failure? Like 150x12 165x9 175x6 185x3 ?? At the moment i am doing all sets of bench press to failure. It seems everything to be ok in strenght and mass gains, just wanted to know your opinion? Maybe this question is a little dumb but i am newbie :)

Good question...I'm guessing a little here but it sounds like maybe your going for more mass. If that's the case then it doesn't hurt to take a couple (meaning two) sets to failure on each compound exercise. But I would suggest you still keep the reps between 8 and 12 before hitting failure. The other thing I would suggest is that you do this type of routine for no more than three months and then take forced reps out of your routine for a while. You have to keep the body guessing. Good luck.

NickSP
07-31-07, 8:45 pm
IMO you should never really go to failure on every set. Typically I'm probably 1 rep away from failure (maybe 2 reps away on my first one or two sets) and then often my last set will be to failure, not always though.

Barker
07-31-07, 9:16 pm
I keep all my working sets heavy and to positive failure( last good rep that i can finish on my own). Its worked great for me. You have to push the muscle to failure for it to grow bigger and stronger to accomadate the heavy workload.

jonsbsn
07-31-07, 11:00 pm
I keep all my working sets heavy and to positive failure( last good rep that i can finish on my own). Its worked great for me. You have to push the muscle to failure for it to grow bigger and stronger to accomadate the heavy workload.

agree... overload is where its at.

teethoflions
08-01-07, 12:31 am
every working set i do is to failure. All the time. failure may be 20 reps. it may be 6 reps. I utilize drop sets and rest pause techniques in every workout to achieve failure and beyond. And ive experienced the best physique to date with those techniques. When i have a partner il do assisted reps.

If you can accomplish more with a certain weight when you stop repping, then that means you havent recruited all the muscle fibers possible. and at least for me, that is a waste of my time.

Veritas
08-01-07, 12:41 am
i was actually wondering what a drop set was. I couldnt figure it out, neither could my friend. Is it just taking your 1st weight and cutting it half, then doing that to failure?

Also im intrested to hear about these pause techniques if your willing to share.
thanks bro. power on.

jonsbsn
08-01-07, 4:45 am
drop sets are doing a heavy weight then drop the weight to a lower number and repping that out as many times as you can. I like to go to around 70-80% of the original weight but you can do what ever you want.

A pause technique is stopping the weight for a second or two. I do them while the muscle is in a full stretch (ex. while bench pressing hold the weight so its just touching your chest for a second or with pull ups let your lats stretch up for a second before pulling the weight back down. The stretch is the key. . . this is my understanding of pausing.

ANewBreed
08-02-07, 12:07 pm
i think some may have been referring to rest pause, not actually halting the lifting movement (although this is also a good technique because it ensures that any weight you lift is done purely by the muscle, and no momemntum comes into play) But rest pausing is when you hit, lets say for example, 185 for 8, rest for 10-15 seconds and hit an additonal 3-4. Good shocking method

Gio71
07-29-09, 3:12 pm
Is it ok to do every set in every exercise till failure? if i wnt to gain

dominatetheiron
07-29-09, 3:17 pm
The main thing i have to ask is what do you mean by gain? do you want to gain muscle mass or strength or what?

If your going for muscle mass gains i took a tip from i think it was bigant with incorporating 2 second holds in all my lifts in order to gain size and it has worked well especially in my lats.

lastly in my mind it all depends on what your body responds to. If your body responds well to every set to failure and can take it and you have a good partner you trust to spot/ help you with forced reps i say go for it.

Gio71
07-29-09, 7:24 pm
Are you talking about a set? or a rep? I train every set to failure. Meaning every last rep is until I cant lift it anymore. I dont stop at 6 when I can squeze 7

i do 8-10 reps each set i go every last rep till failure that i man is that alright if i keep DOING THAT OR DO I OVER TRAIN?

t_mh
07-29-09, 7:45 pm
I think these guys are talking about when you see a guy do a few sets of an exercise (let's say 12-10-8-6 on bench) and then end with a "burnout" on a lower weight for as many reps as possible.

Gio71
07-29-09, 7:52 pm
Pick a rep range you want to work in, for example 12-10-8-6. You want to use enough weight on your set of 12 where if you were to do 13 you wouldnt be able to accomplish it. You want to go as heavy as you can while being able accomplish you rep goal. I do not reccomend failing on every set. Using a fail method is another tool, its like drop sets, forced reps...etc. Yes, you want it to be challenging but accomplishable. IF you are going to go to fail, I would make it your last set.

yeah that what i mean i do 8-10 reps should i do so much weight like i would fail at the 8 rep or like i could do 1-2 reps more? i was doing every set till i fail on the 8 rep ... the pump was not that good thats because i ask,do i hit the fibers to grow or not , thats what i wanna know, so if i keep doing every workout like this i only waisting time

msktyshha
10-14-09, 12:45 pm
i was doing back n bis today.after done with back i started off a warmup set of barbell curls wid a 50lb weight. den 8 reps wid 60 den 8 reps wid 70. den 4 reps wid 80 den 2 reps wid 90. now i always have dis thing in me dat tells me go for failureeeee so i pik up a 40lb again n hit failure wid it. so my question is dat if its ok to always hit failure in ur every workout like every week for bis shud i hit failure cuz i have heard sum where dat if u always hit failure it effects ur recovery and thus effects muscle growth. so hit failure once in a blue. is dat true guys?????

MrMonday
10-14-09, 1:33 pm
Not hitting failure during a workout would be like having sex and stopping before you ***.

That said I don't believe you need to do a drop set every time, and why in the world are you doing a weight heavy enough with curls that you can only get 2 reps with it?

Most people pyramid up over the course of 3-5 sets until they reach a weight they can hit failure with in the 6-10 rep range. If you really feel like you need to do a drop set after that, then I don't think you were working hard enough on your top set.

intoodeep25
10-14-09, 2:10 pm
HAHAHAHAHA....nicely said mr. monday...nicely said

TigerAce01
10-14-09, 2:51 pm
Not hitting failure during a workout would be like having sex and stopping before you cum.

That said I don't believe you need to do a drop set every time, and why in the world are you doing a weight heavy enough with curls that you can only get 2 reps with it?

Most people pyramid up over the course of 3-5 sets until they reach a weight they can hit failure with in the 6-10 rep range. If you really feel like you need to do a drop set after that, then I don't think you were working hard enough on your top set.

Try not to use sexual analogies here guys...a clear breaking of the rules.

-Ace

msktyshha
10-14-09, 3:02 pm
iam sort of mixing bodybuilding + powerlifting in every workout cuz it seems to be working great for me. I couldnt go beyond 60lbs b4 but ever since i startd doing atleast 2-4 reps with a heavier weight i managed to get my strength and size up.

msktyshha
10-14-09, 3:08 pm
i guess i shudve said if its k to do drop sets to failure in every workout??? will it affect ur recovery

prowrestler
10-14-09, 4:34 pm
i guess i shudve said if its k to do drop sets to failure in every workout??? will it affect ur recovery

hell ya, drop sets are gonna tax your body ALOT more then tradional training methods.

as far as to failure, i think repping to positive and correct form failure is good, but thats as far as i would go anymore. been there, done that.

once you cant do another good, clean rep, stop the set.

t_mh
10-15-09, 11:52 pm
I didn't read all of this article but I couldn't help but notice how relative to this it is:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/failure_fixation.htm

JasonG
10-16-09, 3:39 am
Not including my warmups I take everyset to momentary positive failure. If I'm shooting for 8 reps and I get it and have more in me I don't just stop because I hit a magical number. I have my journey book every workout and make sure there is progression every workout. Otherwise I feel I am wasting my time. When I feel my CNS needs a break I back off a bit for a week or two.

live2lift
10-16-09, 1:42 pm
Not including my warmups I take everyset to momentary positive failure. If I'm shooting for 8 reps and I get it and have more in me I don't just stop because I hit a magical number. I have my journey book every workout and make sure there is progression every workout. Otherwise I feel I am wasting my time. When I feel my CNS needs a break I back off a bit for a week or two.

I think this is good advice here. Well said jasonG. I follow the same kind of thinking. Besides w/u sets I take my heaviest sets to momentary failure. I train alone and do not have the luxury of a spotter so I try to push to that point on all my heavy sets where I know that there is no way I am getting another rep without it falling on me. Now if I am doing an exercise where I can knock out a few cheat reps at the end of a set then I do that as well...or maybe I will bang out some rest/pause reps...it all depends on how I feel. That being said the most important thing IMO is INTESITY. You can go to failure or not go to failure, but if you are not training with intensity then your workout is pointless. Break past what you think your body is capable of and push that intensity through the roof and you will get bigger and stronger. Also, like Jason said above if your CNS needs a break then back off for a couple of weeks. I do this religiously and feel that it has def helped me break past some previous limits. Every 4-6 weeks of heavy, intense lifting is followed by a week of no lifting. I do not lose anything during that week and most times come back stronger and with a renewed passion for the iron, and most importantly, I keep progressing. If you are not progressing then what the hell are you doing?

Peace