Westsiders take a look

[excessive endorphins]

My Approach

ME Bench
Incline working up to 3rm
Cgb
Db/Bb rows
Pushpress
Hammer Curls

ME Lower
Squat/Good morning/Zercher Squat working to 3rm
Sldl
Pullthroughs
Heavy Abs

DE Bench
Speedbench 9x3
Rows(bb,db,tbar,cable)
Shoulder Press(Db,bb,machine)
Rear Delt work(face pulls,rd fly)
Bb curls
Dips

DE Lower
Sumo Box Squats 9x3
Pullthroughs
Shrugs

REPEAT



Comments,suggestions?

[shizz702]

My Approach

ME Bench
Incline working up to 3rm
Cgb
Db/Bb rows
Pushpress
Hammer Curls

ME Lower
Squat/Good morning/Zercher Squat working to 3rm
Sldl
Pullthroughs
Heavy Abs

DE Bench
Speedbench 9x3
Rows(bb,db,tbar,cable)
Shoulder Press(Db,bb,machine)
Rear Delt work(face pulls,rd fly)
Bb curls
Dips

DE Lower
Sumo Box Squats 9x3
Pullthroughs
Shrugs

REPEAT



Comments,suggestions?

Looks good Eddie, only thing is I'd suggest alternating triples and 1RMs on ME day to keep things fresh, and plus you may want to go for BIG weights once in a while that you can only put up once. Also from what I remember speed work is done 8x3 on the bench and 8x2 on the squats, obviously that's not cast in stone and if you want to do 9x3 go for it. On the DE bench I'd drop the curls and dips, I don't think you need them, remember sometimes less is more. Overall looks good though bro.

[Maharg]

Send it to YH if you want a Westsider to give it the once over. He knows his shit. Course he might swing by anyways.

[excessive endorphins]

Looks good Eddie, only thing is I'd suggest alternating triples and 1RMs on ME day to keep things fresh, and plus you may want to go for BIG weights once in a while that you can only put up once. Also from what I remember speed work is done 8x3 on the bench and 8x2 on the squats, obviously that's not cast in stone and if you want to do 9x3 go for it. On the DE bench I'd drop the curls and dips, I don't think you need them, remember sometimes less is more. Overall looks good though bro.



Thanks for the response.I think 9x3 is good for me.Should i keep the box squats regular or speed? & Cmon,i gotta have some bodybuilding movement ;).I got them tiny arms =/


I think i will continue to do 3rm's till i can add more weight,or fail at 2 or something.Ya dig?


Also,for what its worth im doing this till im shipped off for army.Im sure i will resume afterwards,but cycling Exercises.Like,Ill do 6 weeks working Incline,then revert to flat,then the same amount of time for squat.Then soon enough deadlift.Or i may be running a mini dl routine,who knows.Tho the Heavy squatting,GM's,and pullthroughs are amazing assistance.

[shizz702]

Thanks for the response.I think 9x3 is good for me.Should i keep the box squats regular or speed? & Cmon,i gotta have some bodybuilding movement ;).I got them tiny arms =/


I think i will continue to do 3rm's till i can add more weight,or fail at 2 or something.Ya dig?


Also,for what its worth im doing this till im shipped off for army.Im sure i will resume afterwards,but cycling Exercises.Like,Ill do 6 weeks working Incline,then revert to flat,then the same amount of time for squat.Then soon enough deadlift.Or i may be running a mini dl routine,who knows.Tho the Heavy squatting,GM's,and pullthroughs are amazing assistance.

Yea bro 9x3 is fine, especially is you feel it's right for you. Remember speed day is meant for speed! Drop the heavy weights and stay within 50-70% of your 1RM. I'd start out at 50% and gradually add weight from there and deload once you hit 70% and repeat. Trust me, just focus on speed and lifting as fast as possible. The whole point of the speed work is to stimulate gains for ME.

Good thinking on the triples, just know when to go for a 1RM ;)

I feel ya on the curls, if you want to do them for the sake of a gratifying pump go for it lol. Just don't let the bodybuilding movements interfere with the big picture. Also you're on the right track alternating the exercises. ME days don't necessarily always have to be flat bench and box squats. You can do ME incline, deadlift, good morning etc. When I was doing Westside I'd alternate the squat and dead for ME.

[excessive endorphins]

Good advice brotha.So make them Speed squats right?

[shizz702]

Good advice brotha.So make them Speed squats right?

Yea definitely speed. Start out at 50% of your 1RM and work up to 70% tops, then deload back to 50% and repeat. When you deload you will probably be starting higher cause your 1RM will probably be stronger ;)

[excessive endorphins]

Yea definitely speed. Start out at 50% of your 1RM and work up to 70% tops, then deload back to 50% and repeat. When you deload you will probably be starting higher cause your 1RM will probably be stronger ;)

We will see what happens.

[Young&Hungry]

My Approach

ME Bench
Incline working up to 3rm
Cgb
Db/Bb rows
Pushpress
Hammer Curls

ME Lower
Squat/Good morning/Zercher Squat working to 3rm
Sldl
Pullthroughs
Heavy Abs

DE Bench
Speedbench 9x3
Rows(bb,db,tbar,cable)
Shoulder Press(Db,bb,machine)
Rear Delt work(face pulls,rd fly)
Bb curls
Dips

DE Lower
Sumo Box Squats 9x3
Pullthroughs
Shrugs

REPEAT

Comments,suggestions?

This doesn't look bad at all. One thing you must totally understand about Westside is that you need to tailor your max effort and assistance work to your individual needs. On your bench, are you weak off the chest or at lockout? For squatting, are you weak and lose your form coming out of the hole or near the top? For deads, are you weak off the floor or at lockout? Once you answer these questions I can help you a lot better.

About the 6 week incline cycle, the longest you should ever cycle a max effort exercise is for three weeks, most advanced lifters change their max effort exercise weekly. If you are doing a true Westside program you will be doing multiple singles over 90% of your max on a true max effort movement, and after three weeks of over 90% on one exercise your CNS will either wind up overtrained or you will become accustomed to the movement and thus begin to lose strength. If you want to do three week cycles, here's what I suggest: week one just about max out, week two do 5-7 singles at exactly 90% of what you lifted on week one, and then week three go for a new max. After the three weeks are up, switch movements and do not do the same one for 12 weeks. Keep in mind, 3x3's and rep maxes aren't bad at all for increasing maximal strength but they are not "true" Westside max effort work.

Many people including myself either get beat up or get nothing out of speed work, but I ALWAYS suggest someone who is new to Westside and isn't a skinny bastard to always start off doing speed work. Powerlifting form is drastically different than what a bodybuilder would use so the extra practice isn't going to hurt at all. I would reccommend that you do your speed work for both your bench and squat between 45-60% for 8x2 or 9x3 for three weeks, and then on the fourth week do rep work instead of speed work. For instance, instead of speed squatting or speed benching that week, do close stance olympic front or back squats for 5x10 or heavy standing military presses and then do your normal speed work.

I suggest doing your heavy overhead pressing on speed day and not on your max effort day, raises will suffice for shoulder work then. Dips and curls are fine, but I reccomend supersetting these so you get out of the gym faster and strain the CNS less, while still getting your bodybuilder swell on.

I hope I'm not throwing too much stuff at you at once. Once you answer those questions I asked you in the first paragraph I can help you map out your assistance work and max effort cycles.

[excessive endorphins]

All good advice brotha.Im looking to up my Pushpress,so i will keep that on ME.The other day i may switch to lat raises or something instead of presses.


Bench Weak off the chest
Deadlift Weak 2 inches below
Squat weak out the hole
Pushpress weak at the lockout

I cant do deads[SUCKS!],so im working assistance.What are you saying about the 6 week thing? So i shouldnt do 3rm's for 6 weeks straight? Im not great with percentages,hate them actually.Just use general idea of weights.

Dont care really wether i do a "real" wsb routine.Just taking ME/DE context from it and some assistance lifts.Run by my log,youll see the weights im using.

[Young&Hungry]

About the push presses, trust me when I say that after speed benching is the best time to do them because it (should be) less taxing than max effort work, so you'll have enough neural firepower to perform to the better of your abilities. After max effort work you will be too gassed to put up anything respectable, trust me. Powerlifting is not about the pump or pre-exhaustion - it's all about the numbers game and being fresh to perform your best on the main lift for the day. You absolutely CAN make push presses a max effort exercise though. This is a much better option than max effort benching and then attempting to push press heavy after doing so.

Yes I do not agree with doing any max effort exercise longer than three weeks, or for the same rep range for more than one week. I understand that percentages are guides, but I'm gonna respectfully disagree with the whole principle of "instictive" training. I personally think it's a crock of shit especially in strength sports. You can pull it off in bodybuilding but unless you either want to injure yourself or have the exact same PR's for the next 10 years you must program intelligently and with planning. Every exercise and rep range should be backed with science, mathematics, logic, reason and a 100% understanding of your own needs for your big three lifts. Any instictive trainee can talk all they want about how man is primal and planning is tedious and unnecessary, but I can probably kick the shit out of them around the gym while they're busy lifting six times times a day, overtraining, and setting themselves up for career ending injuries because I use some critical thinking when I plan my workouts.

I'm writing your split up right now in a seperate post.

[Young&Hungry]

Here are the max effort exercises best suited for your needs in order of importance:
Bench - floor presses, long paused flat bench, cambered bar bench presses, incline bench, 1-2 board presses, bottom bench, standing militaries
Squat - wide box squats, wide parallel squats, good mornings, close stance olympic squats, zercher squats (go beltless often)
Deadlift - pulls off blocks, speed deadlifts, sumo deadlifts (working in the opposite stance is totally underrated), full range deadlifts vs. bands/chains, rack lockouts, olympic cleans
Push Press - overhead lockouts, strict presses

Based on everything you've told me here's the split that I'd put my name on:

ME Bench:
Max effort bench exercise - three week wave as I stated before or a 1-5RM weekly
Chest - suspended pushups, DB Bench, incline DB's, floor presses for reps - 4x20-8 reps
Shoulders - front/side raises for 3x12-15
Lats - 5x10, chins/rows/pulldowns
Tricep/Bicep superset - 3 sets high reps

DE Squat:
Speed Box Squat or Speed Deadlift - 8x2 between 45%-60%, rotate with close stance olympic squats or deadlifts for reps every three weeks
Quads - lunges, stepups, split squats, light front squats, leg press - 4x10
Low Back/Hams - back raises, RDL's, stiff legs, GM's - 4x8
Abs - at least 6 sets, all weighted

DE Bench:
Speed Bench - 8x2 between 45%-60%, rotate with overhead presses for reps every three weeks
Overhead Pressing or Lockout Work - 4x8-5 reps of standing militaries, push presses, or lockouts, close grip, or board presses
Lats - 3x10
Rear Delts - 4x10-12 of seated dumbbell cleans, flies, or shrugs
Tricep/Bicep superset - 3 sets high rep

ME Squat/DL:
Max effort squat/DL exercise - three week wave as I stated before or a 1-5RM weekly
Low Back/Hams - 5x5 reps of RDL's, GM's, or stiff legs
Quads - lunges, stepups, split squats, light front squats, leg press - 4x10
(you can do 4 sets of additional lat/upper back work on this day if you need it)
Abs - at least 6 sets, weighted

[excessive endorphins]

Thanks bro,i will keep this in mind for after basic.Im just going to stick with what ive got down now,just switiching a few exercises.(Helps with my instinctive gym attitude,ha)

[Maharg]

Here are the max effort exercises best suited for your needs in order of importance:
Bench - floor presses, long paused flat bench, cambered bar bench presses, incline bench, 1-2 board presses, bottom bench, standing militaries
Squat - wide box squats, wide parallel squats, good mornings, close stance olympic squats, zercher squats (go beltless often)
Deadlift - pulls off blocks, speed deadlifts, sumo deadlifts (working in the opposite stance is totally underrated), full range deadlifts vs. bands/chains, rack lockouts, olympic cleans
Push Press - overhead lockouts, strict presses

Based on everything you've told me here's the split that I'd put my name on:

ME Bench:
Max effort bench exercise - three week wave as I stated before or a 1-5RM weekly
Chest - suspended pushups, DB Bench, incline DB's, floor presses for reps - 4x20-8 reps
Shoulders - front/side raises for 3x12-15
Lats - 5x10, chins/rows/pulldowns
Tricep/Bicep superset - 3 sets high reps

DE Squat:
Speed Box Squat or Speed Deadlift - 8x2 between 45%-60%, rotate with close stance olympic squats or deadlifts for reps every three weeks
Quads - lunges, stepups, split squats, light front squats, leg press - 4x10
Low Back/Hams - back raises, RDL's, stiff legs, GM's - 4x8
Abs - at least 6 sets, all weighted

DE Bench:
Speed Bench - 8x2 between 45%-60%, rotate with overhead presses for reps every three weeks
Overhead Pressing or Lockout Work - 4x8-5 reps of standing militaries, push presses, or lockouts, close grip, or board presses
Lats - 3x10
Rear Delts - 4x10-12 of seated dumbbell cleans, flies, or shrugs
Tricep/Bicep superset - 3 sets high rep

ME Squat/DL:
Max effort squat/DL exercise - three week wave as I stated before or a 1-5RM weekly
Low Back/Hams - 5x5 reps of RDL's, GM's, or stiff legs
Quads - lunges, stepups, split squats, light front squats, leg press - 4x10
(you can do 4 sets of additional lat/upper back work on this day if you need it)
Abs - at least 6 sets, weighted

This is a pretty damn awesome routine.

[shizz702]

Damn Young&Hungry great advice and program you posted here bro!

[airborneIRON]

that sounds solid. maybe my next cycle

[Maharg]

that sounds solid. maybe my next cycle

I bet if you asked him nicely he would draw one up for you and the issues you need to work on.

[IRBS]

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with the whole principle of "instictive" training. I personally think it's a crock of shit especially in strength sports. You can pull it off in bodybuilding but unless you either want to injure yourself or have the exact same PR's for the next 10 years you must program intelligently and with planning.

Excellent!!!!! Agree 100%


Any instictive trainee can talk all they want about how man is primal and planning is tedious and unnecessary, but I can probably kick the shit out of them around the gym while they're busy lifting six times times a day, overtraining, and setting themselves up for career ending injuries because I use some critical thinking when I plan my workouts.


Again, hit the nail on the head.


Y&H pretty much summed up everything I would have said, so I am not going to waist mine, and your, time writing it over, phrased slightly differently...LOL.

What I will say, is that when following a Westside Template (no one is "Westside" unless you actually train at Westside...) its all about finding your weaknesses and exploiting them so you get stronger. Ditch the BB'ing rehtoric and pre-exhaust BS and just GFS! Like Y&H said, rotate ME lifts every week, or every other week. My training partner and I rotate every week, so that the CNS stays in tact for as long as possible. If you are truely following a Westside Template, there is no way you will progress doing the same ME lifts for longer than a few weeks at a time (I mean verifiable progress, and big PRs).

If I were you, I would follow the basic 9 week Westside Template to a "T" until you report for basic. Dont overthink and over complicate this. Follow that program and all of your lifts will get stronger. If you want to work overhead for ME, then go for it! I dont see any problem with that at all. But I would not work ME Bench and then follow that with a ME Overhead Movement...just make it your ME movement for the day and move on.

I have my own opinions about DE Benching, but like Y&H said, give it a shot and see how you hold up.

If you want to keep doing what youve been doing, then cool. But I think the following quote applies:

"Keep doing what you've always done and you'll always be what you've always been."

Good Luck.

[Maharg]

Speaking from knowing him for so long, he wont drop instinctive training.

[Big Wides]

This is my 0.02 on this matter. For any template to work it has to be followed the way it was designed for. Be it Korte 3x3, the 5x5 stuff, Westside, Metal Militia....the list goes on. You have to dedicate yourself to it, none of this going off and doing half of it, your only going to get half assed results which defeats the purpose of a template. Speaking on Westside Barbell templates, the assistance work that will target your weaknesses has to be picked by you. In a happy world we all would train in one gym so then we could point out weaknesses and help exploit them, however we are not in Happyland. So know what your own weaknesses are, and exploit them with the set/rep scheme for assistance work, and pick your ME exercises to exploit them as well.

Make your weak strong and you'll become strong

[IRBS]

This is my 0.02 on this matter. For any template to work it has to be followed the way it was designed for. Be it Korte 3x3, the 5x5 stuff, Westside, Metal Militia....the list goes on. You have to dedicate yourself to it, none of this going off and doing half of it, your only going to get half assed results which defeats the purpose of a template. Speaking on Westside Barbell templates, the assistance work that will target your weaknesses has to be picked by you. In a happy world we all would train in one gym so then we could point out weaknesses and help exploit them, however we are not in Happyland. So know what your own weaknesses are, and exploit them with the set/rep scheme for assistance work, and pick your ME exercises to exploit them as well.

Make your weak strong and you'll become strong

The Wides has spoken, and it is the truth...

LOL, "The Wides"...I kill myself...