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Sphinx
10-19-08, 9:26 pm
I'm starting to cut from now till Spring, I'm going to be switching up my workout routine and would like some input on it. My current routine is as follows;
Monday = Chest + Biceps, Tuesdays = Back + Abs, Wednesday = Legs, Thursday = Triceps + Abs, Friday = Shoulders.

I've been currently bulking, my exercises had sets that looked like this, 1x15, 1x10, 1x5, 1x15. The weight increases gradually, and then decreases on the last set, I had between 4-8 exercises for each day. I currently don't do cardio in my workouts, the only cardio I do get is I bike to and from work (7kms roughly all together) I've been doing this routine for the past 6 months or so and I've had progress with it.

Anyway, my new routine I've come up with is looking like this;

Monday
Arms
- Shoulder Press
- Drag Curls (R.I.P. Vince Gironda, thank you, these fucking rock!)
- Cable Push Downs
- Lateral Raise
- Preacher Curls
- Lying Triceps Extension
15 mins of skipping

Tuesday
30 mins of skipping
15 mins of boxing

Wednesday
Legs
- Deadlifts
- Standing calf raises
- Squats
- Good Morning
10 mins of skipping

Thursday
30 mins of skipping
15 mins of boxing

Friday
Chest + Back
- Bench press
- Pullover
- Dumbbell Flys
- Shrug
- Incline Bench Press
- Seated Rows
15 mins of skipping

All exercises with have sets as follow, 1x25, 1x20, 1x15, and 1x25.

I am a hard gainer, while bulking I had to bust my ass extra hard to see changes. Will this mean I'm a hard 'loser'? I'm always having trouble getting a proper routine together, I keep thinking I'm over training with everything I put together, another disadvantage for me is that I am limited to what have to workout with. On a side note, I don't go to a gym, I have my own equipment and am limited with what I can do with it.

I've come up with another workout as well, its something like this;

Monday, Wednesday, Friday
Squat
Bench Press
Deadlift
T-Bar Rows
Seated Shoulder Press
Drag Curls
Lying Tricep Extensions
Standing Calf Raise
(same sets and reps as above)

Tuesday, and Thursday
15 mins of skipping
10 mins of boxing

Or switch the workouts to Monday and Friday, and do the cardio and boxing Tues-Thurs. So lets hear it, all useful input is appreciated. Thank you.

Steelman69
10-20-08, 4:16 pm
Try it all out for a little while bro before you second guess yourself. I think it looks pretty o.k. to me. More important to your cutting is your diet, so make sure you give it a check up from the neck up. You know what I mean? Peace.

Sphinx
10-20-08, 6:05 pm
I just finished my workout (the first Monday routine with arms) I don't know how to feel about it cause it didn't feel like my usual workouts. My bulking routine, I made sure that the weight was real heavy and I came out with sweat running down me, this routine only made small beads appear on my forehead, not nearly enough as I'd expect. Of course, the skipping session really made the heart rate go up and the sweat began to run. I'll be upping the time on skipping in the weeks to come.

How about this though, I thought of this because I've read in so many places that you should change workouts often to 'shock' the muscles and what not. What if I use both workouts I posted, but change every week between the two?

As for my diet, I'm pretty sure I got it right cause I'm hungry as I type this and I know I can't go shovel food down like no-tomorrow like I did when I was bulking. I've cut back my calories, and most importantly carbs. Upped my vegetables and water intake as well cause I'm on Cuts.

So again, any advice or suggestions about my routine is welcomed, I'd really like to know if I'm going about this the right way.

Steelman69
10-21-08, 10:37 am
I just finished my workout (the first Monday routine with arms) I don't know how to feel about it cause it didn't feel like my usual workouts. My bulking routine, I made sure that the weight was real heavy and I came out with sweat running down me, this routine only made small beads appear on my forehead, not nearly enough as I'd expect. Of course, the skipping session really made the heart rate go up and the sweat began to run. I'll be upping the time on skipping in the weeks to come.

How about this though, I thought of this because I've read in so many places that you should change workouts often to 'shock' the muscles and what not. What if I use both workouts I posted, but change every week between the two?

As for my diet, I'm pretty sure I got it right cause I'm hungry as I type this and I know I can't go shovel food down like no-tomorrow like I did when I was bulking. I've cut back my calories, and most importantly carbs. Upped my vegetables and water intake as well cause I'm on Cuts.

So again, any advice or suggestions about my routine is welcomed, I'd really like to know if I'm going about this the right way.

The human body can adapt very quickly to any given routine, so in my opinion if you wanted to try going every other week switching up your workouts I think you may find good gains in the end. Be careful with your diet though, make small changes throughout the week until you get to the right portions for your body. You don't want to cut everything out all at once or you may throw yourself into starvation and eat up some of that hard earned muscle you worked for. What I do, and I am not a professional dietician by no means, is if I feel hungry in two hours or less I'll up my protein a little at first. Until I can get to at least three hours. It is hard to say how many good carbs you'll need because I don't know what kind of job you have or other active lifestyle choices you lead. Keep truckin' bro. Peace.

Sphinx
10-21-08, 4:38 pm
The human body can adapt very quickly to any given routine, so in my opinion if you wanted to try going every other week switching up your workouts I think you may find good gains in the end. Be careful with your diet though, make small changes throughout the week until you get to the right portions for your body. You don't want to cut everything out all at once or you may throw yourself into starvation and eat up some of that hard earned muscle you worked for. What I do, and I am not a professional dietician by no means, is if I feel hungry in two hours or less I'll up my protein a little at first. Until I can get to at least three hours. It is hard to say how many good carbs you'll need because I don't know what kind of job you have or other active lifestyle choices you lead. Keep truckin' bro. Peace.

Sounds like some good advice to me, thank you!

I will play with the workouts, try different things, but the biggest change will be that I'll be doing cardio now with the skipping.

Without straying too far off topic, the diet kinda looks like this;

Wake up
- 3 boiled eggs, 7 baby carrots, piece of fruit, half a cup of milk.

3 hours later...
-Piece of fruit, cup of milk

Lunch
- Salad (consisting of lettuce 1/2 cup, quarter of a red/green pepper, 10 baby carrots, 5 grape tomatoes, chicken (roughly the size of a fist) and a piece of fruit

3 hours later...
- Piece of fruit

WORKOUT

After workout
- Cup of oatmeal with cinnamon, piece of fruit (usually chopped up banana, or some blueberries)

3 hours later...
- Same as lunch

My water intake is between 3-4 liters a day.

My day can get active with little warning. My job is primarily driving around all day, I do moderate lifting of boxes and other heavy materials. Some days I lift more than others and I get a workout from that, all workouts take place in the afternoon after work. I'm taking Pak, Nitro before and after working out, and Cuts as well.

The Wrecker
10-21-08, 5:00 pm
Your diet concerns me a little, you really think that 3 eggs and cup & 1\2 of milk is enough protein for daily consumtion? How much protein did you take in daily while bulking? A drastic drop in protein will just make the body enter a catabolic state. Just my opinion you should never have a workout day just for arms, arms make up just a small part of your muscle mass, and giving them their own day is a waste.

Sphinx
10-21-08, 5:57 pm
Your diet concerns me a little, you really think that 3 eggs and cup & 1\2 of milk is enough protein for daily consumtion? How much protein did you take in daily while bulking? A drastic drop in protein will just make the body enter a catabolic state. Just my opinion you should never have a workout day just for arms, arms make up just a small part of your muscle mass, and giving them their own day is a waste.

Alright, can you enlighten me then a bit? Seriously man, let me know how I can improve. The protein consumption I figured was probably a bit low, any suggestions on what else to add?

As for an having an arm day, what do you think of my second routine I had posted? Should I keep lifting heavy and keep my reps low, or increase them with little rest?

shizz702
10-21-08, 10:32 pm
I like the second routine much more than the first, but think you'd be better off dividing it into two workouts instead of one and alternating them 3 times a week.

I'd do something like this

Workout A

Squat
Bench press
Rows
Calf work

Workout B

Deadlifts
Seated shoulder press
Direct arm work

You made mention of being a hardgainer and all, have you read any of Stuart McRobert's stuff?

The Wrecker
10-22-08, 11:06 am
Alright, can you enlighten me then a bit? Seriously man, let me know how I can improve. The protein consumption I figured was probably a bit low, any suggestions on what else to add?

As for an having an arm day, what do you think of my second routine I had posted? Should I keep lifting heavy and keep my reps low, or increase them with little rest?

Add chicken or tuna to your salad's. Maybe kick out a salad and add chicken and rice, good source of protein and complex carbs, because you will need complex carbs for energy doing all that skipping and cardio crap. You might even add a protein shake. You just need protein in your diet so your body enter into a catabolic state, I'm sure you know this, but if you don't a catabolic state burns muscle for energy when there is a deficiency in protein consumption.

For the workout question without protein and complex carbs your heavy lifting and low reps won't be optimal. So I would suggest medium to light weight, and average to high reps. I would always suggest picking chest, back, & legs for a workout design and add arms, traps, lats, and calves to finish off the main muscle groups. If I were you I would at least try your workout to see how things work for you. I have wasted plenty of time and sweat on workout programs just to find out that it didn't work for me. Thats just part of the game.

Steelman69
10-22-08, 12:24 pm
Sounds like some good advice to me, thank you!

I will play with the workouts, try different things, but the biggest change will be that I'll be doing cardio now with the skipping.

Without straying too far off topic, the diet kinda looks like this;

Wake up
- 3 boiled eggs, 7 baby carrots, piece of fruit, half a cup of milk.

3 hours later...
-Piece of fruit, cup of milk

Lunch
- Salad (consisting of lettuce 1/2 cup, quarter of a red/green pepper, 10 baby carrots, 5 grape tomatoes, chicken (roughly the size of a fist) and a piece of fruit

3 hours later...
- Piece of fruit

WORKOUT

After workout
- Cup of oatmeal with cinnamon, piece of fruit (usually chopped up banana, or some blueberries)

3 hours later...
- Same as lunch

My water intake is between 3-4 liters a day.

My day can get active with little warning. My job is primarily driving around all day, I do moderate lifting of boxes and other heavy materials. Some days I lift more than others and I get a workout from that, all workouts take place in the afternoon after work. I'm taking Pak, Nitro before and after working out, and Cuts as well.

Take 2 of the yolks out at breakfast and add at least 5 more whites, go with skim milk or at least 1 percent, make your next meal a protein shake with at least 25 grams of protein more if you wish. Lunch time looks pretty good, switch it up sometimes and eat brown rice or sweet potatoes instead of fruit, before you workout you need some protein man at least a shake, one scoop with some water should be good enough. As soon as your done working out you need protein worse than before, forget oatmeal and blueberries right now, go for one or two scoops of 100 percent whey mixed in gatorade or some other high glycemic carb drink. Then your next meal can be same as lunch but switch it up and go with some real lean red meat like top round steak, bison, or even some venison (if you can get your hands on the stuff). Like I said before I'm no nutritionist but this should help you I think.

Steelman69
10-22-08, 12:40 pm
Alright, can you enlighten me then a bit? Seriously man, let me know how I can improve. The protein consumption I figured was probably a bit low, any suggestions on what else to add?

As for an having an arm day, what do you think of my second routine I had posted? Should I keep lifting heavy and keep my reps low, or increase them with little rest?

Also think of your body like a farmer thinks of a field. You plow, plow, plow, and plow but if you don't plant any seeds your not going to grow any crops. You know? Eventually your "field" will dry up, your ground will be depleted of its natural energy and you go catabolic. Then your body starts to eat itself for fuel. Kind of sick ain't it? Protein brother, protein is key to gains and to fat loss. And also, I know arms are a small muscle group, but I have always had an arm only day in my training routine because when I try to throw them in on let's just say biceps and back, I hit my back so hard I can't focus 100 percent on my biceps. Or say triceps with chest, hell your triceps work alot through chest movements anyway I don't care how good your form is. Then the other way around bi's with chest, or tri's with back. I can't really focus my full power into chest and then go balls out on biceps. Then bust my ass on back and try to kill my triceps. You could be different though. I'm not saying this other guy is giving you bad advice I'm just saying it doesn't work for me. I stole that field thing from Arnold he may be poppin' in here and get me for plagerism. Just remember protein.

The Wrecker
10-22-08, 1:00 pm
Take 2 of the yolks out at breakfast and add at least 5 more whites,

More eggs the better, but why take out the yoke it has the vitamins?

Steelman69
10-22-08, 4:49 pm
More eggs the better, but why take out the yoke it has the vitamins?

If he is trying to cut bodyfat separating an egg yolk or two can help a little. He's taking Pak so he should be getting good high quality vitamins and minerals. A calorie is acalorie the way I see it I suppose. I don't have a problem with egg yolks in general though.

Sphinx
10-22-08, 7:26 pm
On the eggs, I am not taking out the yoke, I personally got an issue for throwing food away and NEVER do it unless something is rotting and just can't be consumed.

Shizz, thanks for the workout idea, I like the way it looks and will definitely try and work something like that in. The first routine I posted is making me feel like shit, and when I say that, I mean shit as in I am not aching and too stiff to move the next day. I'm hoping the second routine will be better when I try it next week. As for Stuart McRobert, I will look into him.

Now, the diet, from what I've gathered and will do is add more protein. I'm gonna scrap some of the fruit and have me some tuna sandwiches as mentioned or more chicken. I know about the protein shakes, I've been meaning to get some but got preoccupied with other stuff. After the workout, aren't I suppose to get carbs in me? I read that somewhere and thats why me immediate meal after is strictly oatmeal (has been for months actually...)

That arm day wasn't that great actually. I hear what your saying Steelman, thats what my previous routine was like, I had 2 muscles a day which were I guess you could 'opposites', where when I worked one, the other didn't work. Bi's and chest were Monday and it worked out pretty fine, but that routine went has been with me for quite some time and I think I'm past due for a change.

shizz702
10-22-08, 7:38 pm
Hey sphinx, if you get a chance, check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Brawn-Insiders-Encyclopedia-Muscle/dp/9963916368/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224718588&sr=8-1

Highly recommended.

As for your current routine, sounds like it is burning you out and overtraining you if that's how you feel. If you are a hardgainer like me, then you should opt for a more abbreviated routine like the one I mentioned.

Check out my journey sometime, and you'll see I train that way, and have made really good gains.

Best of luck to ya bro!

Sphinx
10-22-08, 8:06 pm
Hey sphinx, if you get a chance, check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Brawn-Insiders-Encyclopedia-Muscle/dp/9963916368/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224718588&sr=8-1

Highly recommended.

As for your current routine, sounds like it is burning you out and overtraining you if that's how you feel. If you are a hardgainer like me, then you should opt for a more abbreviated routine like the one I mentioned.

Check out my journey sometime, and you'll see I train that way, and have made really good gains.

Best of luck to ya bro!

I'll be checking that out for sure, I came to the conclusion cause I realized the harder I worked, the more I actually saw results, thats why I'm a bit not comfortable lowering the intensity of my routine, I feel I might do more harm than good.

shizz702
10-22-08, 8:40 pm
I'll be checking that out for sure, I came to the conclusion cause I realized the harder I worked, the more I actually saw results, thats why I'm a bit not comfortable lowering the intensity of my routine, I feel I might do more harm than good.

Yea bro, high intesnity, low/moderate volume is where it is at. Just take a few big productive exercises like the squat, bench, dead, row, etc. and train them hard!

Steelman69
10-23-08, 10:27 am
On the eggs, I am not taking out the yoke, I personally got an issue for throwing food away and NEVER do it unless something is rotting and just can't be consumed.

Shizz, thanks for the workout idea, I like the way it looks and will definitely try and work something like that in. The first routine I posted is making me feel like shit, and when I say that, I mean shit as in I am not aching and too stiff to move the next day. I'm hoping the second routine will be better when I try it next week. As for Stuart McRobert, I will look into him.

Now, the diet, from what I've gathered and will do is add more protein. I'm gonna scrap some of the fruit and have me some tuna sandwiches as mentioned or more chicken. I know about the protein shakes, I've been meaning to get some but got preoccupied with other stuff. After the workout, aren't I suppose to get carbs in me? I read that somewhere and thats why me immediate meal after is strictly oatmeal (has been for months actually...)

That arm day wasn't that great actually. I hear what your saying Steelman, thats what my previous routine was like, I had 2 muscles a day which were I guess you could 'opposites', where when I worked one, the other didn't work. Bi's and chest were Monday and it worked out pretty fine, but that routine went has been with me for quite some time and I think I'm past due for a change.

Yes, that is why I suggested mixing your protein with Gatorade or fruit juice. Fast carbs=replenished glycogen stores=more energy for your next workout. As for the egg yolks keep 'em. Then you should try 4 whole eggs instead of 3.