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IRN-NML
10-24-08, 7:53 am
More of a lurker than poster, but I'd appreciate some input here.

My bench has always sucked. Still, I have a pretty decent chest for an old guy or young in some cases. Still the bench sucks; weakest point being from the chest up. What I can do, mid to lockout is not a problem.

Have read the articles on using the pins in the cage and pressing from the weakest point; tried it a few times and got frustrated and, right or wrong, ditched it.

Now, I've gotten the idea of trying it from just below lockout and work my way down the pin holes; get x # of reps @ x lbs before moving down, lower reps and work my way back up to x reps @ x lbs before moving further down to the chest area.

My thinking is I've never tested my stronget bench point but if I can build my strength there and further down, it will eventually help my weakest point.

Make sense, or am I missing something that makes this a bad idea?

Thanks for any advice.

cesmeister
10-24-08, 9:55 am
I say drop the weight and do what you can with a full range of motion. Eventually the strength will come. With all due respect, nobody cares how much you can half rep. Everybody on this forum will tell you to lift for results and forget about numbers. In my experience chasing numbers has only lead to bad form and injuries... you feel me?

-ces

brandonA
10-24-08, 11:52 am
More of a lurker than poster, but I'd appreciate some input here.

My bench has always sucked. Still, I have a pretty decent chest for an old guy or young in some cases. Still the bench sucks; weakest point being from the chest up. What I can do, mid to lockout is not a problem.

Have read the articles on using the pins in the cage and pressing from the weakest point; tried it a few times and got frustrated and, right or wrong, ditched it.

Now, I've gotten the idea of trying it from just below lockout and work my way down the pin holes; get x # of reps @ x lbs before moving down, lower reps and work my way back up to x reps @ x lbs before moving further down to the chest area.

My thinking is I've never tested my stronget bench point but if I can build my strength there and further down, it will eventually help my weakest point.

Make sense, or am I missing something that makes this a bad idea?

Thanks for any advice.

The pin presses should work good for ya. If you just want strength I would start with a 6" range of motion, hit a heavy 5x5 for 3 weeks, then move the pin down 1-2 holes and do that range of motion for a heavy 5x5 for 3 weeks, and so on till you are at full range. Do not rest the weight on the pins, you want to minick a board press, so start with the bar in the j-hooks, set up, come down, solid tap on the pins and then fire back up....

This will work you hard through the whole range of motion with the added bonus of putting a bit more weight in your hands than you normally would, building up your CNS. Dont worry about hitting a ton of reps, tons of reps do not make you stronger...If you want after your last set, drop the bar and rep it out to failure.

You could drop it to 3x3 and one week waves, most programs hit a 3 week wave, I have found that best for me....

Let me know if you have any questions....

-B

brandonA
10-24-08, 11:54 am
I say drop the weight and do what you can with a full range of motion. Eventually the strength will come. With all due respect, nobody cares how much you can half rep. Everybody on this forum will tell you to lift for results and forget about numbers. In my experience chasing numbers has only lead to bad form and injuries... you feel me?

-ces

HAHHAHA....Not everyone...there is a hand full of us crazy bastards that only lift for the numbers and give two shits about the results (unless the result is a bigger number)..hahahah....but in a body building frame of mind you are 100% correct...

-B

IRBS
10-24-08, 11:57 am
I say drop the weight and do what you can with a full range of motion. Eventually the strength will come. With all due respect, nobody cares how much you can half rep. Everybody on this forum will tell you to lift for results and forget about numbers. In my experience chasing numbers has only lead to bad form and injuries... you feel me?

-ces


HAHHAHA....Not everyone...there is a hand full of us crazy bastards that only lift for the numbers and give two shits about the results (unless the result is a bigger number)..hahahah....but in a body building frame of mind you are 100% correct...

-B


LOL, I'm in it purely for the numbers...my decimation of the all you can eat pizza buffet last night at CiCi's is evidence of this fact.

Crazy Bodybuilders, LOL,
IRBS

Brick By Brick
10-24-08, 12:23 pm
There is strength in numbers, and those numbers come in pounds.
- my new t-shirt from monstermuscle.com

IRN-NML
10-24-08, 1:03 pm
Thanks for the info and some confirmations Brandon. Just dropping the weight and doing what I can hasn't worked; or more, isn't enough and I'd like the added strength.

I'd say what I'm proposing is similar to doing rack deads JUST below the knee; not a big range of motion but still really hits the back with a heavier weight than a regular dead + the option to move the pins down adding the legs some more if desired.

Going to give this a try starting with the upper range, give it plenty of time and see how it goes. One other option I've heard of is using two sets of pins and pressing and holding against the top pins; unfortunately, the gym only has one set of pins.

Brick......Good T-shirt quote!

BryanSmash!
10-24-08, 9:22 pm
I'd just like to add that if you are doing rack lockouts and rack pulls in the same week you might want to drop the rack pulls to focus more on your lockouts.

jeff00z28
10-26-08, 1:49 am
if ur bench sucks at the bottom part u need to work ur chest more with flies

IRN-NML
10-26-08, 9:41 am
I'd just like to add that if you are doing rack lockouts and rack pulls in the same week you might want to drop the rack pulls to focus more on your lockouts.

Thx, I'll keep this in mind. Tried it yesterday; two different upper pin positions & it's going to be worth working on; results won't happen overnight but it felt productive and can feel it in the pec areas today.

IRBS
10-26-08, 9:47 am
if ur bench sucks at the bottom part u need to work ur chest more with flies

a fly will do absolutely nothing for your bench........

AFTazz06
10-26-08, 10:47 am
try DB flat bench, go heavy. I find DBs to really tear into your chest since theyre individually on each hand, and you can go really deep. Keep in mind, bench pressing SHOULD NOT be the end all of all your chest excercieses. Alot of pros dont even bother doing flat bench because its bad for your joints and they still have massive pecs. I'd recommend trying something new to shock your chest, maybe you need to work on your upper pecs to get that fuller look? Incline on smithin machines, incline DB flyes, cable flyes, pec deck, are all awesome ways to tear into your pecs and make them grow without having to rely on flat benching all the time. I use barbell flat bench as a warm up, do 2-3 sets medium weight thats it.

IRN-NML
10-26-08, 11:26 am
Thx. Actually, I've been doing primarlly dumbell work for some time; starting out with flyes and use flat, incline and decline + weighted chest dips in the mix. Sidestepping a bit, I also believe/ feel seated barbell presses 125# now; hoping for 135# by the end of the year contribute SOME to the 'fuller upper pecs' development. The rack lockouts will just be a tool; not a traditional bench just as a rack dead is not a traditional deadlift.

Might as well plug pushups; preferably feet elevated; try feet on the Smith bar & hands on the floor or holding pushup bars or a pair of dumbells for elevated pushups.

MojoMike36
10-26-08, 11:54 am
OP - Have you tried adjusting your form?

simpleguy
10-26-08, 3:15 pm
I say drop the weight and do what you can with a full range of motion. Eventually the strength will come.

believe me, it won't... LOL... does that make any sense? but seriously now you can't just hope to lift more the next month, or next workout... if you don't do anything about it chances are you'll stay where you are (or worse, get weaker)... some people care about how they look, others about how much their lift... personally I care about both


a fly will do absolutely nothing for your bench........

x2, who said that anyway? haha

Tiny
10-26-08, 3:19 pm
Thx, I'll keep this in mind. Tried it yesterday; two different upper pin positions & it's going to be worth working on; results won't happen overnight but it felt productive and can feel it in the pec areas today.

Don't forget the boards . . . 4, 3, 2, 1, eventually none.

prowrestler
10-26-08, 11:03 pm
Don't forget the boards . . . 4, 3, 2, 1, eventually none.

ahhh, the range of motion method! works really good with anderson squats aka squats at dead weight on safety pins.

IRN-NML
10-27-08, 7:31 am
Don't forget the boards . . . 4, 3, 2, 1, eventually none.

Never thought of that but THANKS! That at least validates what I"m trying. I'm not a PL & it's not a PL gym so there aren't any boards. There are a couple of chains that could anchor a cruise ship (serious) and some much lighter ones; they'd be used for working on lockout......I think.

Thx for the boards reminder.

Tiny
10-27-08, 5:04 pm
Never thought of that but THANKS! That at least validates what I"m trying. I'm not a PL & it's not a PL gym so there aren't any boards. There are a couple of chains that could anchor a cruise ship (serious) and some much lighter ones; they'd be used for working on lockout......I think.

Thx for the boards reminder.

Right - as the chains come off the floor they incrementally increase the load with the most weight at the top but they also activate more stabilization adaptation since the load is "dynamic" or "unbalanced' so to speak. I like the boards - I know a lot of guys utilize them mainly to get the bar to touch (with powerlifter type form - I train and bench Metal Militia style, of course admit it or not most everyone borrows and has by now incorporated MM "form" into their bench). I think if you are benching with a traditional "bodybuilder" type form, employing boards could accomplish exactly what you are aiming to achieve.

IRN-NML
10-30-08, 9:24 am
Tried this for just the 2nd time last night & I"m sold on it. Forcing me to work more on getting situated on the bench and holding that position; feet back, shoulders driving into the bench, back arched. Doing warmup of 10 & then 3 sets of 5 with the 4th and 5th reps feeling really like the failure reps.

One thing to have a spotter to help though a sticking point or really help when you're failing. Nuther thing is take on a fight with failure; to be fighting to the death getting the weight to move up on a rep, fighting to hold the weight up against gravity, and fighting to lower the weight at YOUR own speed; NOT the weights.....all in one little ole rep; honestly pushing to the max and yet having the pins cover your back. Felt d**n good and this is going to work in the long run!

cesmeister
10-30-08, 1:27 pm
well i didn't mean drop the weight as in do light weight, or not push yourself. Of course you gotta pound the weights in the gym and when you do it correctly you see results better and faster. If you are half repping 225 why not go down to say 205 where you can do full repititions, or get a spotter to help you do full reps with 225. Half reps when done throughout the whole set dont do shit. I do believe that half reps at the end of the set (if you don't have a spotter) are beneficial.

But then again who really knows what works for you anyway haha we're all just putting in our 2 cents.

-respect brother

IRN-NML
10-31-08, 9:18 am
No offense intended Cesmeister! FWIW, spotting has changed too. I know REALLY old school, when 3 sets of anything was most common; if you asked for a spot on a heavy set, you automatically got spotted for the next two sets. But, that's a whole nuther subject.