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hardhit71
10-31-08, 1:09 am
On back day i seem to have this problem with my lats. for some reason i just can't get the burning to come. I do Lat Pulldowns(wide grip) 4x15 and DB rows for 4x15....wide grip pullups 3xfailure. I was doing some heavy weight on LatPulls and rows but it just didnt seem to be burning for me...just exhausting my biceps (wednesday is my bi and tri day and thursday is back) so i tried to lower the weight and do the motions slow. well.....i'm still not getting the burn in my lats. i dont know what the deal is? maybe someone can help me. any ideas?

thanks

ionicrod
10-31-08, 3:53 am
On back day i seem to have this problem with my lats. for some reason i just can't get the burning to come. I do Lat Pulldowns(wide grip) 4x15 and DB rows for 4x15....wide grip pullups 3xfailure. I was doing some heavy weight on LatPulls and rows but it just didnt seem to be burning for me...just exhausting my biceps (wednesday is my bi and tri day and thursday is back) so i tried to lower the weight and do the motions slow. well.....i'm still not getting the burn in my lats. i dont know what the deal is? maybe someone can help me. any ideas?

thanks

for starters bro, you have you split backwards. You do not want to be training biceps the day before back (or triceps the day before chest). You biceps are crucial on every back exercise you do, and if they are already fatigued from curls the day before, you will not be moving any serious weight, or feeling the exercises in you back.

Now thats out of the way, if you really want to feel the burn in your lats, I would suggest rearranging your exercises, and adding some new ones. I would not be doing those pulldowns first. I would suggest(along with many others) doing the heavy, compound movements first. Starting off with deadlifts, then move to barbell rows, then go to your dumbell and cable work. I am a proponent of high volume training, so i do many sets. I love it, so a basic back workout for me going something like:

deadlifts: 20, 15, 12, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1,12, 15
bent-over barbell rows: ( I alternate between overhand and underhand) 15,12,12,10,8,6,4,12
cable rows (or a hammer strength machine if its available): 12,12, 10, 8
close grip pulldowns (I use a super close underhand grip, usually my hands have no more than 4" between them): 20,15,12,10,6,12
face pulls: 20,15,12,10
(i then go on to do some rear delt work)


notice how i go from hight reps, to in some exercises to very low reos, even singles, but finish the exercises off with a high repetition, burnout set. By forcing your muscles to work at their maximum strength levels, and their maximum endurance levels, you will definitely be feeling a burn, and an awesome pump.

Aggression
10-31-08, 10:56 am
First of all, switch the days around. Do Back first in the week, bc its the bigger, more primary muscle group.

Second, you have to just learn to feel the muscles in the back working. A good mind-muscle connection is essential in back training. Grip the lat bar and concentrate/focus on pulling with your back, and squeeze it all the way down.

Dingo
10-31-08, 11:12 am
yup,as everyone above said work your body largest muscles to smallest muscles, in your split.
eg:
mon: legs
tue: chest
wed: back
thur: shoulders/calves/abs
fri: arms/abs

Also learn to pull/contract only your back muscles, when your deadlifting, rowing, pulling down, your hands should be gripped tight and act as hooks but your upper arms should be as neutral in contraction as possible until maximal effort is needed. Once you really learn to pull with your back muscles you wont feel it in your arms until late in your workout, as it is with me i really only feel it in my forearms from gripping the bar.

Practice making a fist, tight as you can without flexing your biceps or triceps. Then move it through a rowing motion again without contracting the bi's or tri's so they stay as loose as possible throughout the movement.

hope this helps.

Aggression
10-31-08, 11:47 am
As Dingo said, make sure not to pull with your biceps. Your hands should act as a hook around the bar.

GJN5002
10-31-08, 12:09 pm
you have to develop the mind muscle connection and many people have a hard time doing it for back. As stated you are probably pullign too much with your arms. Do this lighten the weight just a bit to a weight you could bang out 8-12 and when you reach the peak of contraction hold the position for 2-3 seconds and slowly let the negative out. Do this on rowing motions, pullups, etc. This will help you to develop the mind muscle connection a little better than just tugging on heavy weight.

sanga
10-31-08, 12:14 pm
Think of your hands as just hooks, don`t pull with your bicep strength, think about pulling with your lats, pulling your elbows back and trying to touch your shoulder blades in the centre of your back like a catapult elastic, keep that in mind and you should eventually get that mind/muscle connection and isolate the lats more.

GJN5002
10-31-08, 1:18 pm
good call sanga. The only thing i can add is when you start the movement, intitiate it with your lats not your arms. Pull the lats first and let the arms follow.

Mizzarler
10-31-08, 10:05 pm
what i like to is to stretch it out really high each rep,bringing it up pretty slow and holding it at the peak, almost to the point where i'm out of the seat and then pulldown slightly leaning backward and i get crazy lat pumps, i usually just do 12, 8, 8 then drop to 10-15

Ronnie Chop
10-31-08, 10:49 pm
My two cents, When doing lat pulldowns or pullups I imagine (mind/muscle control) that my elbows are attached by a rope or whatever behind my back, and I just try to pull with my elbows and bring them as close together as I can. Might be confusing but it works for me.

Second thing, straight arm pulldowns!!!

DaFr3aK
11-01-08, 3:45 am
i dont rlly get a burn in my back either but my back size is huge. its more of a squeeze that peak contraction on the back

MojoMike36
11-03-08, 7:26 pm
you won't feel a burn in a muscle that hardly exists. Keep at it. Stay in the low rep range so you gain some more strength. Gain some mass. Then you'll feel the burn. I had it the same way.

I couldn't feel a damn thing doing pullovers, pullups, and chinups. Then after a few more months of time and lots of focus I managed to build a great mind-muscle connection.

tips for ya:
-breath in deep and puff out your chest when you're doing pulling movements.
-Try a rowing machine. Spend some time really practicing using lats only
-Use your hands as hooks

Cellerator65
11-03-08, 8:42 pm
4x15 for rep schemes? lower the reps, add more weight. Like everyone has said, pull with your elbows, focus on the contraction in your lats and squeeze the shoulder blades together at the end.