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andrewT
01-01-09, 6:03 pm
hey guys I originally posted this on another forum about a week ago but I want YOUR opinions now instead

I am 19, 5'7 190lbs.

been working out on and off for about 4 years. Just got serious a few months ago, but underwent some surgeries and injuries and have been set back

I am debating whether to bulk or cut but For the past two weeks I have been Bulking. I eat very cleanly. I am not going to bother posting up my diet because I KNOW it is in check

The BF measurements I took a while ago in my fitness class said my bf % was 15 and the other measurement was 22% ( Yuhasz and Durnham I think these tests were and they yeilded diff results as you can see). I attribute most of this fat to my waist, which has been there from before although the rest of my body is pretty low in bf.

In these pictures I just took with my crappy cell camera I am a bit bloated after a big carb meal. I also just measured my waist. When I measured it a few months ago in class it said 36.5 inches but right now it said 38 Although I wear size 36 jeans..and they fit snug when I am bloated.

My question to you all is if I should bulk or cut? Or should I be continuing my bulk and doing some cardio ( I know the whole debate on fasted vs non and HIIT vs low intensity.) Is it really impossible to gain muscle and lose fat? (doesn't more muscle naturally make your body get rid of fat?) If I bulk by the time I am done I don't want a 40 inch waist bloated!

I feel like I am getting bigger in the stomach more than I am in the muscles. I have no intentions of trying to have the beach body, or abs while bulking, but it is getting to the point where I am wondering if I am becoming fat. In the original post I made for this on another forum, the majority told me to continue bulking.
So tell me, I don't think I am FAT per se, but critique the HELL out of me, I am all for it and your educated suggestions!

here is the link to the thread with the pictures since I have no clue how to post them on here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112825521

thanks a BUNCH, and be honest guys I have thick skin!

Pizzalamp
01-01-09, 6:05 pm
i say cut

andrewT
01-01-09, 6:10 pm
i say cut

any specific kind of cardio you suggest?

MojoMike36
01-01-09, 6:17 pm
Eat healthy, clean, cut back on whole wheat carbs, eat more veggies, up your cardio and keep going for mass. You'll be able to put on some muscle and still lose some weight if you know what you're doin. An all out cut isn't an optimum idea. You'll just exhaust your body and slow your progress.

Pizzalamp
01-01-09, 6:20 pm
Eat healthy, clean, cut back on whole wheat carbs, eat more veggies, up your cardio and keep going for mass. You'll be able to put on some muscle and still lose some weight if you know what you're doin. An all out cut isn't an optimum idea. You'll just exhaust your body and slow your progress.

i agree w/ this

Pizzalamp
01-01-09, 6:21 pm
any specific kind of cardio you suggest?

i like a mix of low intensity and high intesnity when i am eating carbs

MojoMike36
01-01-09, 6:26 pm
Rowing machines are the bomb for cardio.

For me it increased back definition a bit, added some vascularity, a lil thickness (if you do it frequently enough), and increased general fat loss. Rowing is a very hard exercise to do with intensity for 20 minutes. Try it out.

BryanSmash!
01-01-09, 6:27 pm
You could really toss a coin on this issue and go either way, but I agree with conwaylucas on your BB.com thread.
I did notice that your training regimen isnt posted anywhere, so you might want to do that for a more in depth answer to your question.
Also, I recommend that you post your diet here even though you're sure its in check. There are alot of experienced people on here that are more than willing to help you out, so they might notice something that you're missing.

futurefreak101
01-01-09, 6:29 pm
Eat healthy, clean, cut back on whole wheat carbs, eat more veggies, up your cardio and keep going for mass. You'll be able to put on some muscle and still lose some weight if you know what you're doin. An all out cut isn't an optimum idea. You'll just exhaust your body and slow your progress.

this.

Carpe Diem P.T
01-01-09, 6:36 pm
Eat healthy, clean, cut back on whole wheat carbs, eat more veggies, up your cardio and keep going for mass. You'll be able to put on some muscle and still lose some weight if you know what you're doin. An all out cut isn't an optimum idea. You'll just exhaust your body and slow your progress.

i agree also. just eat clean and lots of it. do a few sessions of cardio and you will see the waist drop. Why cut? you arent preparing for a show. you just need to clean up what you are currently doing. its just consistency. u want it? go get it!

Elite
01-01-09, 6:41 pm
I've just cut for 3 months to achieve a 'gut' like that. You look fine bro, not contest shape or ripped, but you are'nt competing and your lean enough. My opinion, bulk up.

andrewT
01-01-09, 6:44 pm
Thanks for all the replies guys. I was hoping I wouldn't get "cut" for an answer since I have been tryin really hard to do this right.

What do you guys think about fasted am cardio with maybe some aminos in me? I was thinking maybe light jogging for 20 minutes. That wouldnt be low intensity or HIIT but would it work?

To clear things up I have not been doing ANY cardio at all since I started my bulk (unless you consider 5 minute bike warmups before my workouts cardio).

I am following a 3 day split program. HIT style training and it actually seems to be working very well for me. I train Mon, Wed, Sat, and then Mon, Thurs, Sat. So should I do cardio on all my off days?

I don't really eat any whole wheat carbs, except for my one natural pb and jelly sandwich/day. I also eat oatmeal, and sometimes pasta, rice,etc.

My diet looks like this. It is pretty good, could be better, but I don't get to choose all the food I eat.

-4 whole eggs scrambled, 2 cups oats, 2 cups milk, pak
-natural pb and j sandwich on pure whole wheat bread enriched with omega 3's (looks like birdseeds are on it)
-35g protein powder, 1 whole banana blended in water
-about an hour after my post shake I will eat something big and healthy: usually 3 peices of fish with some homemade potato salad (oregano and a pinch of olive oil)
-Can of tuna or chicken with a small bowl of instant noodles ( I need to change the noodles to something else though..)
-For dinner, my mom usually makes it and I don't have a choice really, but she tries to make foods for health/me/bulking so it is stuff like homemade whole wheat pasta with nonna's sauce, roast beef and sweet potatoes, shrimp and rice, chicken and rice in lemon sauce. Probably the only meal of the day where I won't be 100% it will be clean and what I would like to eat
-another protein shake right about now, or maybe a bagel with 2 eggs and a slice of proscuitto, or another can of tuna and some fruit (banana, blackberries, pineapple), maybe some mixed nuts like cashews, peanuts and some cranraisins!
-before bed I take down as much cottage cheese as I can stomach (usually max 10 heeping tablespoons) a tb of natural pb and 35g of whey, sometimes all blended together

Oh ya and ALOT of water, I usually get more than a gallon a day

This is rough, as what I eat changes everyday, and depends on what my mother buys. Money is tight so I can only get so much in terms of what I want to eat as opposed to whats cheap for what my family wants to eat.

hope this helps. critique it all!

andrewT
01-01-09, 6:44 pm
I've just cut for 3 months to achieve a 'gut' like that. You look fine bro, not contest shape or ripped, but you are'nt competing and your lean enough. My opinion, bulk up.

Thanks but, when I hear you guys talkin about 32-34 inch waists I feel jealous and chunky!

Factory
01-01-09, 7:11 pm
If you do keto with enough calories to be above maintenance, you'll gain weight while losing fat. It's tough, but if your dedicated it's worth it.

andrewT
01-01-09, 7:14 pm
If you do keto with enough calories to be above maintenance, you'll gain weight while losing fat. It's tough, but if your dedicated it's worth it.

I would try keto, thing is I can't choose all my meals because I still live at home (unless I was to buy my own food for dinner, which I wouldn't be able to do all the time) so if I did it it would be hard to do it right. Thats one of the only things I look forward to about moving out one day, I buy and eat What I want.

What kind of weighted ab excercises can I do? and What kind of cardio are you guys all doing? HIIT? low intensity? fasted am? etc

All the help is much appreciated!

Joseb
01-01-09, 7:55 pm
if you have to ask, you should cut.
i know people will yell at me about this, but fat loss is about intensity.
after you train, do the tabata method with front squats or some kinda crossfit shit.
i personally do 95 pounds and i almost die

basically
4 minutes
you squat for 20 seconds, rest for 10, squat for 20, rest for 10
you do that for 8 sets.
try to get 10 reps every time you go.
honestly, i''m outta breath for 5 minutes after i'm done.. but dont stop sweating for the next hour.
That along with lifting, will spike your metabolism so fucking much you'll be a calorie furnace.

Factory
01-01-09, 7:56 pm
Well, you gotta find whatever you will actually do, for me, it's low intensity incline treadmill, like 2.4mph 9-12%incline for an hour.

They've all got their strengths and weaknesses, just do what you'll actually do, and what you'll stick with.

Factory
01-01-09, 8:16 pm
A little warning:I'm not trying to sound like an asshole. Take that into consideration, I'm a little bit blunt.

You've got a good start to your journey, but I'd keep going with the bulk before you cut, but you've got to get in control of your food supply. If you're not eating clean, bulking OR cutting, you're wasting your time.

What you've gotta ask yourself is - how do you want to look? What's the perfect body you'd have if you could pick it out in a store. If that body is 5'7" 190lbs 4% bodyfat, than cut.

like I'm 210, and what I want to look like requires a LOT more mass, so I'm goanna bulk for as long as I can. I was going to do a competition this summer, but I've been thinking about putting it off, because I'd rather be at the top end of the light heavy division instead of the top end of the middleweight division...

Don't just poll a hundred people asking them what they think you should do.. Figure out how you want to look, and if it needs 50lbs of muscle on your frame, than work at it for a long time... That's what I've been trying to do, and 30lbs later 50lbs doesn't seem like so much... Just work at it and set small goals. but most of all keep at it.

Joseb
01-01-09, 8:23 pm
factory: low intensity treadmill/bike is good as well, there was a period of time where i would do an hour of it everyday [while i was cutting]

but unless you're on steroids, you cant afford to go on an all out bulk, a person who is natural shouldnt really be going over 10-13 percent bodyfat.. they should bulk til they're at their target weight.. or over 10%.. after than they should either maintain that weight or cut. if you think about it.. a long bulk usually means you gain a good amount of fat with your muscle, after you gain all that fat, its gonna take you really long to go back down and be lean enough to bulk again. and while you're cutting you can gain any muscle.. right?
so that means you'll be going for a long time without gaining any muscle and possibly losing muscle. and if you get fat once.. its easier to get fat again.. so the next time around, youll probably gain even more fat during your bulk.

Factory
01-01-09, 8:39 pm
factory: low intensity treadmill/bike is good as well, there was a period of time where i would do an hour of it everyday [while i was cutting]

but unless you're on steroids, you cant afford to go on an all out bulk, a person who is natural shouldnt really be going over 10-13 percent bodyfat.. they should bulk til they're at their target weight.. or over 10%.. after than they should either maintain that weight or cut. if you think about it.. a long bulk usually means you gain a good amount of fat with your muscle, after you gain all that fat, its gonna take you really long to go back down and be lean enough to bulk again. and while you're cutting you can gain any muscle.. right?
so that means you'll be going for a long time without gaining any muscle and possibly losing muscle. and if you get fat once.. its easier to get fat again.. so the next time around, youll probably gain even more fat during your bulk.

You're pretty much saying what I'm saying... Clean bulk till your at your target weight...
And a long bulk to me doesn't mean your gaining a lot of fat, a long bulk is long because you're eating super clean and gaining mostly muscle... And it's not impossible to gain muscle while cutting,
try keto with double your maintenance calories... you'll gain while losing bodyfat.
The only problem with it is that it's REALLY tough to eat that many calories purely from fibrous vegetables, meat, eggs and a protein shake devoid of carbs.

just my .02 brother

Joseb
01-01-09, 8:55 pm
i can imagine that its hard. i'm cutting on the anabolic diet and i still have to eat a shitload.
i'm obsessed with the "anabolic diet" its amazing.. and thats why i'm preaching all this
"bulk until you're at 10%"
the first time i did a bulk, i ate super clean, i never cheated, etc etc.. i still gained alot of fat. i didnt mind but it was a bitch getting lean again so i could bulk. thats why i'm saying EITHER your targer bw or 10% bf.. whichever is reached first.
I'm the kinda guy who's 190 and wants to be 265-280.. but thats a shitload of weight and im not gonna try and get it all in one goal. from my first bulk i went from 140 to 230, and it took me four FREAKING months to cut down 180 so i could bulk again. its alot easier if you're at 10% to go down to.. say 6% and then bulk back up to 10% again, than what i did.
i mean it can go both ways, i dont like long periods of cutting weight and i got sick of bulking after a while. its refreshing when you start a bulk or cut so i like to stick with alot of minicycles.
i'm not saying what you're doing is bad, im just saying that imho.. its not optimal.

Factory
01-01-09, 9:02 pm
i can imagine that its hard. i'm cutting on the anabolic diet and i still have to eat a shitload.
i'm obsessed with the "anabolic diet" its amazing.. and thats why i'm preaching all this
"bulk until you're at 10%"
the first time i did a bulk, i ate super clean, i never cheated, etc etc.. i still gained alot of fat. i didnt mind but it was a bitch getting lean again so i could bulk. thats why i'm saying EITHER your targer bw or 10% bf.. whichever is reached first.
I'm the kinda guy who's 190 and wants to be 265-280.. but thats a shitload of weight and im not gonna try and get it all in one goal. from my first bulk i went from 140 to 230, and it took me four FREAKING months to cut down 180 so i could bulk again. its alot easier if you're at 10% to go down to.. say 6% and then bulk back up to 10% again, than what i did.
i mean it can go both ways, i dont like long periods of cutting weight and i got sick of bulking after a while. its refreshing when you start a bulk or cut so i like to stick with alot of minicycles.
i'm not saying what you're doing is bad, im just saying that imho.. its not optimal.

I hear what your saying... I just am the exact opposite, But at the same time, I'm at like 8% or so, and I started my bulk at 14% and I gained like 30lbs during my bulk so far. I'm just lucky that I've figured out what works for me. My only problem is getting in all the calories.

andrewT
01-01-09, 11:22 pm
A little warning:I'm not trying to sound like an asshole. Take that into consideration, I'm a little bit blunt.

You've got a good start to your journey, but I'd keep going with the bulk before you cut, but you've got to get in control of your food supply. If you're not eating clean, bulking OR cutting, you're wasting your time.

What you've gotta ask yourself is - how do you want to look? What's the perfect body you'd have if you could pick it out in a store. If that body is 5'7" 190lbs 4% bodyfat, than cut.

like I'm 210, and what I want to look like requires a LOT more mass, so I'm goanna bulk for as long as I can. I was going to do a competition this summer, but I've been thinking about putting it off, because I'd rather be at the top end of the light heavy division instead of the top end of the middleweight division...

Don't just poll a hundred people asking them what they think you should do.. Figure out how you want to look, and if it needs 50lbs of muscle on your frame, than work at it for a long time... That's what I've been trying to do, and 30lbs later 50lbs doesn't seem like so much... Just work at it and set small goals. but most of all keep at it.

No offense taken
I know how I want to look and I don't care how other people want me to look. The whole purpose of this thread was to see if my bulk is turning into more of a cheesburger belly than a proper bulk. I know it won't come for a long time, and will only happen if I get on the gear, so without that I have a longgg way to go. I am eating clean, as clean as I can get. The only meal of the day I don't have much control over is dinner but besides that my other 5 meals are perfectly fine (correct me if I am wrong). Keto is not something I can do, because even that one meal a day that I cannot control will totally ruin it, so why would I bother trying it? and does that mean because I can't control that one meal a day that I should not bulk or cut and quit bodybuilding? I don't think so, because its not like my mother cooks sludge for dinner, at its most unhealthiest it would be something like tacos!

I am going to stick to this diet and add in some cardio, although I still don't know if fasted cardio is a waste of time or any weighted ab excercises that actually work . I just thought I would ask you all and see your opinions.

thanks to those who helped

MojoMike36
01-02-09, 12:52 am
Keto is not a diet to use when one is seeking to gain mass. Keto isn't even optimum for maintaining mass according to some. I'm no expert and I'm lucky enough to handle my carbs very well so its not something I'm an expert on. However I do that eating tons of carbs means tons of energy in the gym and that it would be detrimental to rid your diet of them.
__________________________
Perhaps try cutting carbs off after 5 pm.

Make your first meal light carbs like a banana and *Your favorite healthy cereal here* (Try half Kashi Go Lean Crunch w/ half Kashi Flakes. It tastes so good and it'll keep you shittin) with 6 eggs.

Make your pre workout meal a whole grain bagel with your choice of protein. ie Chicken Breasts or Eggs.

then don't touch another wheaty carb. Get some broccoli to go with dinner and maybe throw in an apple with another one of your meals. You're set. Go kill it.
____________________________________
And Bro I eat 4,000+ calories a day everyday and have done so for the past 6 months. Sure I've gotten a little less hard and I'm carrying a little flab. but you better believe I get my tired ass on a bike or treadmill for atleast 45-1 hour 5 times a week to combat it.

You should have been doing cardio for the past few weeks before you even thought of questioning your fat gain. Its not that bad. Your belly is bigger when you eat more often. Thats how it works. Take me for example: Bulking 6 months hard and I'm still lean, I can see my abs (even my lower ones clearly defined), but my overall girth has expanded. As soon as my overall food intake decreases my measurements around my midsection drop severely quick. I lose the bloat and size. Its just how we all work.

If your image is that important you're into the wrong hobby. Theres nothing glamorous about puking your brains out after a set of squats. Well maybe to a few guys around here it is.



****this business of not bulking if you're natural is completely idiotic and I would fight to death that it is a dumb statement.

Factory
01-02-09, 6:59 am
No offense taken
I know how I want to look and I don't care how other people want me to look. The whole purpose of this thread was to see if my bulk is turning into more of a cheesburger belly than a proper bulk. I know it won't come for a long time, and will only happen if I get on the gear, so without that I have a longgg way to go. I am eating clean, as clean as I can get. The only meal of the day I don't have much control over is dinner but besides that my other 5 meals are perfectly fine (correct me if I am wrong). Keto is not something I can do, because even that one meal a day that I cannot control will totally ruin it, so why would I bother trying it? and does that mean because I can't control that one meal a day that I should not bulk or cut and quit bodybuilding? I don't think so, because its not like my mother cooks sludge for dinner, at its most unhealthiest it would be something like tacos!

I am going to stick to this diet and add in some cardio, although I still don't know if fasted cardio is a waste of time or any weighted ab excercises that actually work . I just thought I would ask you all and see your opinions.

thanks to those who helped

you are correct, you can not mess up 1 meal on keto, so you shouldn't do keto. adding in some cardio helps... do it preferably in the morning before you've eaten anything..
You could do cable crunches, which you take the rope attachment and do a normal crunch on the floor

krazyassmexican
01-02-09, 8:39 am
Keto isn't even optimum for maintaining mass according to some

LmaO!

krazyassmexican
01-02-09, 8:42 am
my humble opinion. CUT! so you can get rid of some body fat and see what progress you have done, once you are lean and see where you at, then start feeding your lean mass to put on some lean mass

my two cents...

andrewT
01-02-09, 8:52 am
Thanks MojoMike

I agree with what you are saying.

As for krazyassmexican, I want to cut, but really I have only started bulking for about a month and a half now and there really isn't much prgress for me to see.

factory, do you do fasted am cardio? or do you get some aminos or protein in you first? and what kind of cardio you doing? high or low intensity and for how long? (I know everyone is different I just want to see what is working for people.)

krazyassmexican
01-02-09, 8:58 am
Thanks MojoMike

I agree with what you are saying.

As for krazyassmexican, I want to cut, but really I have only started bulking for about a month and a half now and there really isn't much prgress for me to see.

factory, do you do fasted am cardio? or do you get some aminos or protein in you first? and what kind of cardio you doing? high or low intensity and for how long? (I know everyone is different I just want to see what is working for people.)

Last year i was cuttin, i went from 230 to 191 i was lean but i wasnt done, probably i had at least 20 more lbs to go, people started tellin me to bulk, i listened and now i look worst than last year

andrewT
01-02-09, 9:19 am
well,

since I haven't been doing any cardio at all. I am going to give that a try first, maybe about a month to a month and a half. If I still see no changes I am going to attempt a cut.

Thanks for the opinions of everyone. I don't want to sound like some dumb washed up 19 year old who doesn't know anything, I just want to see opinions from people who have done this before if my body is going in the wrong direction (since I always hear don't worry about losing your abs on a bulk, but then I see people bulking with ab definition!).

This is my first time doing a real bulk or cut, since I was 16 and just putting on mass from nutella sandwiches and lasagna (like my fellow paesan weight training teacher recommended). Everything I do is out of common sense, internet reading, what I learn in school (kinesiology major) and advice from my dad once in a while (used to be a pro cyclist, and still fairly cut and shapely).

Thanks all! I really appreciate the advice!

Factory
01-02-09, 11:22 am
Thanks MojoMike

I agree with what you are saying.

As for krazyassmexican, I want to cut, but really I have only started bulking for about a month and a half now and there really isn't much prgress for me to see.

factory, do you do fasted am cardio? or do you get some aminos or protein in you first? and what kind of cardio you doing? high or low intensity and for how long? (I know everyone is different I just want to see what is working for people.)

I get up, take my animal pak, omega, flex, BCAA supplement, and hit an hour on the treadmill, 2.4mph 10-15% incline (about 130 heart rate).
That's pretty low intensity. I drink about a half galon of water during that time and than eat 8+ eggs or so.

And on to what mojomike was talking about, when I'm in ketosis I don't lose any energy at all. And I can gain during ketosis. Maybe it's just the way my body works is different or something, but I don't think so..

Truer words were never spoken than these though: props mojomike

"If your image is that important you're into the wrong hobby. Theres nothing glamorous about puking your brains out after a set of squats. Well maybe to a few guys around here it is.

****this business of not bulking if you're natural is completely idiotic and I would fight to death that it is a dumb statement."

andrewT
01-02-09, 12:46 pm
If your image is that important you're into the wrong hobby. Theres nothing glamorous about puking your brains out after a set of squats. Well maybe to a few guys around here it is.



****this business of not bulking if you're natural is completely idiotic and I would fight to death that it is a dumb statement.

The only image I have of myself is of a 240 pound or more hulking monster. I could give two shits about looking glamourous. Trust me, I'm just as rough and tough as the next one of you. I haven't puked yet squatting (although I come close and stop short with my mental will power) but when I do, all the doofs at my local ymca will think I am even more fucked up than they already do.

I love this sport, it has bit me for life! it is a way of life for me now and noone can change that (even my nagging friends). My girlfriend supports me and so does my father (my mom still thinks its all about powder and pills nonsense!)

Thanks for all your replies brothers!

Joseb
01-02-09, 1:41 pm
Keto is not a diet to use when one is seeking to gain mass. Keto isn't even optimum for maintaining mass according to some. I'm no expert and I'm lucky enough to handle my carbs very well so its not something I'm an expert on. However I do that eating tons of carbs means tons of energy in the gym and that it would be detrimental to rid your diet of them.
__________________________
Perhaps try cutting carbs off after 5 pm.

Make your first meal light carbs like a banana and *Your favorite healthy cereal here* (Try half Kashi Go Lean Crunch w/ half Kashi Flakes. It tastes so good and it'll keep you shittin) with 6 eggs.

Make your pre workout meal a whole grain bagel with your choice of protein. ie Chicken Breasts or Eggs.

then don't touch another wheaty carb. Get some broccoli to go with dinner and maybe throw in an apple with another one of your meals. You're set. Go kill it.
____________________________________
And Bro I eat 4,000+ calories a day everyday and have done so for the past 6 months. Sure I've gotten a little less hard and I'm carrying a little flab. but you better believe I get my tired ass on a bike or treadmill for atleast 45-1 hour 5 times a week to combat it.

You should have been doing cardio for the past few weeks before you even thought of questioning your fat gain. Its not that bad. Your belly is bigger when you eat more often. Thats how it works. Take me for example: Bulking 6 months hard and I'm still lean, I can see my abs (even my lower ones clearly defined), but my overall girth has expanded. As soon as my overall food intake decreases my measurements around my midsection drop severely quick. I lose the bloat and size. Its just how we all work.

If your image is that important you're into the wrong hobby. Theres nothing glamorous about puking your brains out after a set of squats. Well maybe to a few guys around here it is.



****this business of not bulking if you're natural is completely idiotic and I would fight to death that it is a dumb statement.

its not a dumb statement. you can "bulk" but not in the traditional way that most people do.
most of the oldschool bodybuilders didnt use steroids and "bulked" as well. they stayed relatively lean all year round and were huge as well. like you said.. you stayed lean.. and thats fine.
and btw.. dinosaurs like t-rex ate meat only and t-rex was fucking jacked!
carbs give you energy but your for millions of years humans and their ancestors ate mostly the flesh of animals and our bodies were adjusted to that. and ive done a high carb, high everything "bulk" before and i know you get a lot of energy.. but you need to keep eating carbs to keep that energy up. When you're on a diet similar to a ketogenic one [high fats/low carbs] you have that same shitload of energy.. but it just never seems to run out.
thats how it is for me anyways.

Factory
01-02-09, 1:58 pm
When you're on a diet similar to a ketogenic one [high fats/low carbs] you have that same shitload of energy.. but it just never seems to run out.
thats how it is for me anyways.

me too

krazyassmexican
01-02-09, 2:00 pm
me too

we all agree here, this is my second day of my diet and feel so good (despite the fact that i have been with this fucking flu for two weeks already)

mikejones1
01-02-09, 2:17 pm
clean bulk.

your 19 and you are not that over weight. you look decent. you need to build some muscle definition on your frame. when your test levels are highest you can grow if you eat and train right. i dont see any reason you should cut your calories and waste months on losing some belly fat, instead of building some muscle. just make sure the calories are clean calories and grow slowly but surely.

at least you can gain weight. for some people it is very hard. and you have the ability to fill out and put some muscle on your frame.

unless your trying to look good for girls or something, bulk up and gain some muscle.

Joseb
01-02-09, 4:23 pm
we all agree here, this is my second day of my diet and feel so good (despite the fact that i have been with this fucking flu for two weeks already)

i usually dont feel that great until about a week out.. my body just cant adjust that quickly.
you're lucky man [with the ketosis.. not the flu]

andrewT
01-02-09, 4:34 pm
clean bulk.

your 19 and you are not that over weight. you look decent. you need to build some muscle definition on your frame. when your test levels are highest you can grow if you eat and train right. i dont see any reason you should cut your calories and waste months on losing some belly fat, instead of building some muscle. just make sure the calories are clean calories and grow slowly but surely.

at least you can gain weight. for some people it is very hard. and you have the ability to fill out and put some muscle on your frame.

unless your trying to look good for girls or something, bulk up and gain some muscle.

Thanks for the advice bro. No, girls isn't my goal. In fact my gf seems to like the belly I don't know why. I just don't want it to get to bad for health reasons.

But yes I am going to continue my bulk with some cardio added in! thanks for all the help guys!!

redskin 344
01-02-09, 8:06 pm
I would bulk a little more and then cut.

Iceiktitan
01-02-09, 8:20 pm
Lean Clean Bulk

Big Wides
01-04-09, 1:20 pm
If your happy with the way you look then keep going with what your doing....if your not happy then change up how you eat, throw in some cardio till you get the look you want.

Elite
01-04-09, 1:55 pm
Last year i was cuttin, i went from 230 to 191 i was lean but i wasnt done, probably i had at least 20 more lbs to go, people started tellin me to bulk, i listened and now i look worst than last year

Getting ripped instead of lean prior to a bulk doesnt mean shit if the following bulking phase is sloppy and done in a rush. You obviously messed up somewhere and didnt manage to control your diet in accordance to lean mass Vs BF gain. As house says, YOU are your maker, your wise enough to know the score when it comes to diet, so no looking for scapegoats Krazy.

Andrew, your lean. Get a nice consistent bulk plan laid out. Have a couple cheat days per week, then re-assess where your going. If your making strength/size gains and your are'nt getting sloppy weight then continue. If you feel your at the same level as where you started then up the clean/dirty calories. Getting more sloppy weight than lean mass? drop the sloppy food, cut one cheat day, do 2-3 light cardio sessions per week. Just tinker and tailor to your goals. This whole thing is a great journey into discovering how your body works best for you and how it responds to certain food. Everyone goes through this learning curve. Its how much attention you pay in class, then apply to the work that will get you grades.

krazyassmexican
01-04-09, 2:11 pm
Getting ripped instead of lean prior to a bulk doesnt mean shit if the following bulking phase is sloppy and done in a rush. You obviously messed up somewhere and didnt manage to control your diet in accordance to lean mass Vs BF gain. As house says, YOU are your maker, your wise enough to know the score when it comes to diet, so no looking for scapegoats Krazy.


ok bro, if you saw all the advice i got over that last year in this forum you should know i am not looking for scapegoats

it is easy when you are 100lbs soaking wet with cellphone and quarters in your pockets to bulk the way you guys advice but in case of guys like me, preston, simpleguy etc etc is a whole different world

i learned it a few weeks ago

andrewT
01-04-09, 3:26 pm
Getting ripped instead of lean prior to a bulk doesnt mean shit if the following bulking phase is sloppy and done in a rush. You obviously messed up somewhere and didnt manage to control your diet in accordance to lean mass Vs BF gain. As house says, YOU are your maker, your wise enough to know the score when it comes to diet, so no looking for scapegoats Krazy.

Andrew, your lean. Get a nice consistent bulk plan laid out. Have a couple cheat days per week, then re-assess where your going. If your making strength/size gains and your are'nt getting sloppy weight then continue. If you feel your at the same level as where you started then up the clean/dirty calories. Getting more sloppy weight than lean mass? drop the sloppy food, cut one cheat day, do 2-3 light cardio sessions per week. Just tinker and tailor to your goals. This whole thing is a great journey into discovering how your body works best for you and how it responds to certain food. Everyone goes through this learning curve. Its how much attention you pay in class, then apply to the work that will get you grades.

Thanks for the advice bro! it is much appreciated!

born0withno0soul
01-04-09, 6:15 pm
sorry if this is rude, but you have nothing to cut down too. continue eating and lifting

rob_in_korea
01-04-09, 6:36 pm
sorry if this is rude, but you have nothing to cut down too. continue eating and lifting

I agree with this. If you cut now you "may" get a six pack but you would also be fairly skinny. It's already been said but it's up to you, you know how you want to look...skinny male model, mens health cover guy, bodybuilder, powerlifter, some combo of bodybuilder and powerlifter, etc...

-Rob

DUB
01-04-09, 10:38 pm
Bro,
Let me first start off by saying you shouldn't "bulk" or "cut", you need to adapt to your own special needs. Asking a bunch a guys on the forum their opinions doesnt mean shit, you should be asking yourself your own opinion. Moreover, look in the mirror. If your happy with your size, realize cutting will only get you smaller. Me personally, I've debated over the whole thing your currently obsessing over.

What I've come to realize is you need to adjust your eating in order to reduce body fat and gain lean muscle. You can do this by timing your meals in an appropriate manor. That is, eat carbs before and after your lifting session.

Heres my plan, its reduced a lot of my fat.

Breakfast: 6-7 egg whites, with brocolli and cheese
Snack: Protein Shake with 2-3 apples
Lunch: Pan Seared Chicken breast with a bowl of brocolli
Snack (Pre Workout): Protein Shake, bowl of oatmeal
Snack: (Post Workout: Protein Shake, Bowl of oatmeal
Dinner: Pan seared chicken breast with a bowl of brocolli

Protein: 135 + 42 + 60 = 237 g

Now to still gain size, you'll want to train your body to use fat as a means of energy..so do cardio right when you wake up. You'll have nothing in your stomach and your body will drain energy from fat reserves. For me, 45 min in the morning does wonders. I also like to include abs.

In all honesty, your not fat at all. So i dont know why your worried about getting to 40 inches, you shouldn't if you follow that plan.

andrewT
01-05-09, 7:20 pm
Thanks to all the replies guys.

I am not offended by anyone and yes I know I am very small. I do not want to look like a male model (that is not why I asked if I should cut). I just don't want my waist to grow in proportions bigger than my muscles if you know what I mean!

Thanks to all advice

DUB, do you drink aminos or BCAA's before cardio or do you just go straight to it? what kind of cardio are you doing?

Thanks guys!

mikejones1
01-05-09, 8:04 pm
Thanks to all the replies guys.

I am not offended by anyone and yes I know I am very small. I do not want to look like a male model (that is not why I asked if I should cut). I just don't want my waist to grow in proportions bigger than my muscles if you know what I mean!

Thanks to all advice

DUB, do you drink aminos or BCAA's before cardio or do you just go straight to it? what kind of cardio are you doing?

Thanks guys!

take some bcaa's first thing in the morning before you cardio, when doing cardio on a empty stomach. so you dont lose any muscle. regular bcaa's are good and animal nitro will do the trick for sure.

DUB
01-06-09, 10:39 am
I don't take supps before my cardio, not sure what it would do. I don't think you'd be losing muslce during a morning cardio session. The body seeks out sugars then fat for energy.

Im going into the Marines, so cardio has become somewhat essential in my plan. And ive still been gaining size, just not as fast as I was prior to it. But gains nonetheless.

For cardio I love throwing on my ipod and jumping on the eliptical. Put the bitch on interval and, if your really looking to trim your waste, sprint for a minute at the higher intervals.

As of right now I weigh 205, my goal is to get to a lean 230. The diet plan I have etched is great becuase when it comes time to shed fat I'll have to make very minor changes in my diet and increase my cardio to an hour or two a day.

Try the elliptical, great for injury prevention and not as boring as a stationary bike.

As for supps, i take glutamine after my workout, and BCAA's during and after. I also throw an animal pak in the morning.

Cheers

phlex_ing
01-06-09, 3:25 pm
Eat healthy, clean, cut back on whole wheat carbs, eat more veggies, up your cardio and keep going for mass. You'll be able to put on some muscle and still lose some weight if you know what you're doin. An all out cut isn't an optimum idea. You'll just exhaust your body and slow your progress.

agree 100%.

MojoMike36
01-06-09, 3:35 pm
You don't need BCAAs on a bulk dude.

The supplement industry has brainwashed the crap out of everyone. Even Animal is guilty to an extent, tho probably 99% less that most brands. You don't need that crap.

BCAAs are something to be educatedly used as a form of energy while one is on a cut and seeking to train hard/long with few calories while minimizing muscle loss. Then and only then are BCAAs really appropriate. If you're on a lean bulk the last thing you need are BCAAs, cause you gonna have plenty of calories sitting right in your belly waiting for consumption. BCAAs are vital to a BBer whos cutting hard and to a extremely low BF% not for anyone else.

The majority of the BBing community has been brainwashed into thinking BCAAs are as vital as Fish Oil and a Daily Multi. This is not the case. BCAAs were originally intended only for hardcore BBers cutting. The supp industry was clever enough to market them to all BBers who soaked it right up like a sponge, completely oblivious to the fact that they might as well just eat a few more ounces of steak or eggs.

Save your money, buy something worthwhile. When you do finally decide to cut, which from your pictures won't be necessary for quite some time, then buy them after you're about half way to your goal weight on a low calorie diet.


You especially don't need BCAAs on fasted cardio. Stay away from carbs late at night and your glycogen stores will be low. Then when you do cardio you'll be burning fat, why burn aminos when you could be staying leaner?

Sad to see how much of a sucker everyone is to clever marketing. This is a clear case of the common over supplementation going on nowadays.

rob_in_korea
01-06-09, 7:55 pm
You don't need BCAAs on a bulk dude.

The supplement industry has brainwashed the crap out of everyone. Even Animal is guilty to an extent, tho probably 99% less that most brands. You don't need that crap.

BCAAs are something to be educatedly used as a form of energy while one is on a cut and seeking to train hard/long with few calories while minimizing muscle loss. Then and only then are BCAAs really appropriate. If you're on a lean bulk the last thing you need are BCAAs, cause you gonna have plenty of calories sitting right in your belly waiting for consumption. BCAAs are vital to a BBer whos cutting hard and to a extremely low BF% not for anyone else.

The majority of the BBing community has been brainwashed into thinking BCAAs are as vital as Fish Oil and a Daily Multi. This is not the case. BCAAs were originally intended only for hardcore BBers cutting. The supp industry was clever enough to market them to all BBers who soaked it right up like a sponge, completely oblivious to the fact that they might as well just eat a few more ounces of steak or eggs.

Save your money, buy something worthwhile. When you do finally decide to cut, which from your pictures won't be necessary for quite some time, then buy them after you're about half way to your goal weight on a low calorie diet.


You especially don't need BCAAs on fasted cardio. Stay away from carbs late at night and your glycogen stores will be low. Then when you do cardio you'll be burning fat, why burn aminos when you could be staying leaner?

Sad to see how much of a sucker everyone is to clever marketing. This is a clear case of the common over supplementation going on nowadays.


While I agree that BCAAs are essential on a cut, I don't agree that you shouldn't use them during a bulk.

Here is some evidence for you:

Scientific
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16365096

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/136/2/524S.pdf

Bodybuilding related:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm

Sorry andrew I am not trying to hijack this thread.

-Rob

MojoMike36
01-06-09, 9:52 pm
Its still basically pointless bro. Thats the real point. Especially for someone at his stage in development. He's better off just eating more and picking up some other supps that would do him more good in the gym like Pump or an another NO/Creatine supp. Gains would far surpass the muscle mass saved on the fasted cardio.

Invest in eggs. They're better than any BCAA supp.

You can't argue against that.

andrewT
01-09-09, 4:45 pm
Hey guys!

thanks. I was only planning to use the BCAA's on the days I do fasted AM cardio, but I will scrap that idea now!

I am going to eat alottt more now since I was holding back on food abit due to my fear of gaining a huge gut. Hear me out guys, I know I am SMALL, but I just don't want my gut to stick out past my tits like a fat guy!!! Ain't no beach boy look wanted here, just a half decent V-taper!

Thanks for all the help guys!

The Epidemic
01-09-09, 10:04 pm
cut 10pds and bulk

MonTanaMusCle
01-11-09, 6:01 pm
I have to say bulk for sure, I consider you fairly lean. The biggest thing for me is the fact that you are 19 yrs old this is some prime growing time why waste is by cutting cals or trying to diet just.... my two cents.