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jakepitt
02-12-07, 1:02 am
I'm wondering if animal pump and m-stak can be stacked together, and if so, when should they be taken? should i take them both before a workout?

satanonthebeech
02-12-07, 9:34 am
I'm currently stacking M Stack, Pump, nitro G, Pak, max, and real gains (always a staple). I know this sounds like a lot, but i usually keep things pretty simple. Let me just say that m stack and pump pre w/o with nitro g afterwards is probably the best feeling in the world. I look considerably larger and feel wicked full and pumped after workouts. I'm only on day 4/5 of adding the m stack so i haven't yet seen the full results. I take m stack 45 min to 1 hr before workout, and pump 30 min before workout. That works great for me. Feel out the timing for yourself and see what feels good. Either way it's a killer combo that i fully recommend.

Giant Killer
02-12-07, 10:07 am
that stack is perfectly fine-get ready to blow up! haha

jakepitt
02-12-07, 12:28 pm
thanks a ton guys, that helps a lot.

widdlewade44
02-13-07, 10:01 am
The stack listed should work great. I have had my success with M-Stak when I took it 4 hours after Stak2. (I understand you didn't reference Stak2 in your post), anyways, I might suggest Pump 15-45 mins prior to your w/o followed by Nitro or Nitro G post w/o and M-Stak ~4 hours after Pump. Hope this helps, good luck. Peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44

DerekAB
06-05-07, 11:03 pm
When i take Mstak 45 minutes before workout is it still ok to take pump also 30 minutes before workout? so pump 15 mins after Mstak?

Angst
06-05-07, 11:34 pm
When i take Mstak 45 minutes before workout is it still ok to take pump also 30 minutes before workout? so pump 15 mins after Mstak?

This question has been addressed a number of time before, here's a link: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=6810

With the old fomula of M, I took it 45min before workout and Pump 15 min before workout. Play with the timing a bit to find out what works the best for you. Good luck bro.

DTsao86
07-09-07, 9:08 pm
I know they are two different products with two different purposes, but I'm planning to be on a budget when the next semester starts. So let's say you want to keep building muscle mass, and you had to choose either product, which would it be?

LegendKillerJosh
07-09-07, 9:16 pm
Pump for sure. You need creatine everyday. Take pump everyday, never cycle it, and never miss it.

lightattheend
07-09-07, 9:17 pm
id pick pump since its a foundational supplement, but really i dont think you can go wrong with either

NickSP
07-09-07, 9:36 pm
Low budget eh ...if you want to balance both worlds, maybe go with the M-Stak and pick up some Storm (cheaper, basic creatine, no stims like Pump but you'll have pretty much the same stim complex with the M-STak) to stack with it pre-WO. Maybe after a cycle or a couple, you can alternate that stack with just Pump just to see which you like better.

DTsao86
07-09-07, 10:17 pm
Pump it is. I like MStak, but I like the feeling I get with Pump.

Wasteland
07-10-07, 9:12 am
The choice would largely depend on other factors such as your diet. In terms of calories, are you bulking, maintaining or cutting? If you're bulking, M-Stak might be a good choice for it's nutrient-partitioning effects, particularly if you're a classic "hardgainer". Are you taking other supplements with creatine? If so, then M-Stak makes even more sense. If you're not taking creatine, but eat plenty of lean red beef, then again, another argument for M-Stak. That said, if Pump would be your main creatine source, then Pump is the way to go as it is a "foundational" product. The point is, there is no "best" choice in all situations. It depends on these and other factors.

Universal Rep
07-10-07, 10:00 am
Pak and Pump are as basic as it gets, a solid 1-2 combo. M-Stak added to the mix would be sweet.

Check out this FAQ: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=6810

Skater51o
07-10-07, 2:29 pm
another option on a budget is the storm and shock therapy stack. Basically the same as pump, take shock pre, and storm either while working out or after working out.

workout101
08-02-07, 1:32 pm
Hey guys whats going on? Im new here and just wanted to say hello. I have been using pump for about 2 months now and I love it. I just order some Animal M Stak and I am going to use it with the Animal Pump, how should I take the M Stak with the Pump............thanks.

simpleguy
08-02-07, 2:05 pm
First of all , welcome to this forvm bro... take pump 30 min pre w/o and the m-stak some hours apart , either later or earlier in the day... I suggest you take out the red pill in m-stak cuz you don't need extra stimulants... some guys here also take m-stak 45 min pre w/o followed by pump 30 min pre w/o , and that's ok too, see what works best for you

FeelthePain
08-02-07, 2:08 pm
I've done this two ways.
1. Mstak 1 hour prior to Workout, Pump 30 Minutes prior (remove Red Pill)
This worked great for daytime workouts - but when I had to switch to night workouts - couldn't get to sleep on account of the stims.

2. MStak between Meal 3/4 everyday. Pump 30 minutes prior to WO.
So, I kept MStak constant at mid-afternoon.


I don't think that you'll be disappointed any way you go....

jonsbsn
08-02-07, 4:00 pm
I've done this two ways.
1. Mstak 1 hour prior to Workout, Pump 30 Minutes prior (remove Red Pill)
This worked great for daytime workouts - but when I had to switch to night workouts - couldn't get to sleep on account of the stims.

2. MStak between Meal 3/4 everyday. Pump 30 minutes prior to WO.
So, I kept MStak constant at mid-afternoon.


I don't think that you'll be disappointed any way you go....

I've done the 1st way before and liked it. Just I would take the red pill out of m-stak instead of pump. I'd rather have the stim close to my workout so it doesn't wear off half way through my workout as it would if I took it an hour before. Save those red pills for later when you aren't on a stak and need a quick boost.

Joker-Roo
08-02-07, 4:04 pm
I've done the 1st way before and liked it. Just I would take the red pill out of m-stak instead of pump. I'd rather have the stim close to my workout so it doesn't wear off half way through my workout as it would if I took it an hour before. Save those red pills for later when you aren't on a stak and need a quick boost.

I save them up and have a huge zip-loc full of them. Gave my buddy 2 last night and he was just going to town on the iron. He is now a current buying of Pump.



Andru

jonsbsn
08-02-07, 4:08 pm
I save them up and have a huge zip-loc full of them. Gave my buddy 2 last night and he was just going to town on the iron. He is now a current buying of Pump.



Andru

not to bring down Universal/Animal at all, but if all you need is a spurt of energy you can buy regular caffeine pills. (that's really all the red pill is) I recomend taking the actual supplement (pump/m-stak/etc) if you want their effect. But if your short on cash you can get 100 pills for like $10 bucks. I'm going to buy some once I run out of m-stak, I just don't have the funds to keep buying these awesome supplements. I don't know if Universal makes caffeine pills, I'm going to check before I buy it elsewhere.

Universal Rep
08-02-07, 4:15 pm
Pump definitely before you lift. M-Stak, couple hours apart. Having the stims in a single red capsule makes things convenient with the Pump and the new M-Stak.

Joker-Roo
08-02-07, 4:23 pm
not to bring down Universal/Animal at all, but if all you need is a spurt of energy you can buy regular caffeine pills. (that's really all the red pill is) I recomend taking the actual supplement (pump/m-stak/etc) if you want their effect. But if your short on cash you can get 100 pills for like $10 bucks. I'm going to buy some once I run out of m-stak, I just don't have the funds to keep buying these awesome supplements. I don't know if Universal makes caffeine pills, I'm going to check before I buy it elsewhere.

Couldnt agree more, but he needed a creatine supp and N.O



Andru

spyderman4g63
08-03-07, 1:57 pm
Couldnt agree more, but he needed a creatine supp and N.O



Andru

The red pill in M-stak:

Energy Complex (All In One Red Capsule)
• Methylxanthine Complex (Caffeine, Theobromine, Theophylline)
• Evodiamine


Red Pill in Pump:

Energy Rush Complex
• Methylxanthine Complex (Caffeine, Theobromine, Theophylline)
• Evodiamine
• Vinpocetine


Don't ask me what that means, but it is more than "just caffiene". I agree, universal should sell those pills for cheap.

MartyMcfly
08-03-07, 7:40 pm
animal m-stak did nothing for me. go with stak 2. methoxy product are shown to be inferior

Flash419
08-03-07, 10:56 pm
I've used these two together numerous times. The best combo I have found is to take M-Stak about 45 minutes before you lift. Then take the Pump about 20 minutes before you lift. Take all the pills the first time, I did and while the energy got me up, it wasn't too much. If you find it makes you jittery, then take out the red pill in the pump pack.

Good Luck!

DHBAKER15
08-27-07, 5:49 pm
I just bought Animal Pump and M-Stak. I was planning on taking them both at school before my strength and fitness class, but I dont have the chance to take them in my earlier class. M-Stak says 45mn before workout and Pump says 30mn. What the earliest before my workout that I can take them? What about 10-15mn before?

Upstatebuilder07
08-27-07, 6:09 pm
uhh...at 15 id recommend nothing more than protein and a multi. Animal supps are aimed at 18+. plus for a strength and fitness class you don't need that shit, its serious for serious lifters.

DHBAKER15
08-27-07, 6:15 pm
I am a serious lifter, this isnt just a hobby. Ive been lifting for 2 years. I dont have time during the school year to workout at home, I just asked for advice.

Flash419
08-27-07, 6:17 pm
I'd take the M-Stak first... about 45 minutes out if possible. If not, then take it before your class before the strength class. As for the pump, take it 20 or 15 minutes out would be okay.

At your age, I would definately say that Animal Paks, and a good protein are a must. But, if you have those covered, then Pump is a great Creatine / NO supplement, and M-Stak would be fine for you too. Just stay away from Stak 2. Your hormones are maxed out at your age anyways, Stak 2 is for old farts like me.. ;)

Good luck!

Elite
08-27-07, 6:22 pm
I seriously reccomend you just stick to PAK/AMINOS/WHEY.

Your body at your age is a supplement everyone would want, but has sadly passed most of us by. Use your body and its own extra's its naturally producing and you'll big up more than most of us can. If you want to add a supp that will cover your ass as i can see your in this for the long haul then get FLEX, your body will thank you for it in the comin years.

Riesjs
08-28-07, 3:55 pm
I seriously reccomend you just stick to PAK/AMINOS/WHEY.


I really agree.

However, you could take it during the day. Try taking it mid day when you havent eatten in awhile like an hour or so.

hendrik
09-25-07, 3:30 am
hay all am new and wana ask can i use pump and m-stak at the same time

krazyassmexican
09-25-07, 6:10 am
hay all am new and wana ask can i use pump and m-stak at the same time

if u run a search you could find that question answered plenty of times

ghost
09-25-07, 11:20 am
Yes you can use mstak and pump in the same cycle. pump is a foundational supplement and can/should be taken daily.

G Diesel
09-25-07, 11:35 am
Since I finished testing "X" (now Test), I've used Pump and M-Stak together preworkout... Awesome combo. Peace, G

Wasteland
09-25-07, 11:40 am
Like other Animal products, they can be "stacked".

Here are some other useful links on the stack of Pump/M-Stak (there are plenty of others):

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=8290&highlight=m-stak+pump

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=10184&highlight=m-stak+pump

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=9386&highlight=m-stak+pump

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=7492&highlight=m-stak+pump

big3434
10-10-07, 10:07 am
i take animal pak in morning and animal flex in the evenings. I just started taking the m-stak and wanted to take the animal pump also. could i take m-stak 1 hour to 45 mins before workout then pump 30 before or what would be the best way. animal products rock.

brandonA
10-10-07, 11:35 am
i take animal pak in morning and animal flex in the evenings. I just started taking the m-stak and wanted to take the animal pump also. could i take m-stak 1 hour to 45 mins before workout then pump 30 before or what would be the best way. animal products rock.

Hey, welcome aboard...the m-stak 60-45 mins before and the pump 30 mins before is good, you dont want to take all them pills at the same time....also, i edited you title so it made a bit more sence....

-B

big3434
10-10-07, 11:37 am
thanks for the advice man. i am going to get it a try for one cycle adn see how it works.

brandonA
10-10-07, 11:39 am
remember you can take the red pill out of the Pump if you get too much stims out of the stack...dont want to be bouncing off the walls......or maybe you do....LOL...

-B

OSUrookie
11-27-07, 3:00 pm
i'm currently on the Pump and MStak combo. I notice both have a red pill, which is the energy rush complex. i take MStak 45 min before i work out and Pump about a half hour before. i was wondering if i should take both red pills or just take one and use the other earlier or later in the day depending on when i train. i appreciate any info.

Elite
11-27-07, 3:17 pm
Gotta use the search bruv, plenty of posts on this...

Take the red pill out of M-STAK and just take the one red pill with PUMP. Im on the same stack and use my saved M-STAK red pills as a 'pick me up' with brekkie every morning.

propstm
11-27-07, 9:26 pm
Gotta use the search bruv, plenty of posts on this...

Take the red pill out of M-STAK and just take the one red pill with PUMP. Im on the same stack and use my saved M-STAK red pills as a 'pick me up' with brekkie every morning.

why not coffee?

simpleguy
11-28-07, 12:01 am
everyone's different' to me 2 pills is too much, that's like 4 strong cups of coffee, but you can try it... I'm ok with one

OSUrookie
11-29-07, 1:36 pm
yea, i think i'll just stick with one. 2 makes me a little too jittery.

Nobody
12-10-07, 12:25 pm
I just recently got Pump and M-Stak and was wondering when to take them because I typically work out 5 a.m. before school. Should I take them together or take M-Stak later on in the day?
Which do you think would recieve better results?

simpleguy
12-10-07, 12:37 pm
hmmm... what do you eat before your workout? or at least are you having a shake or something?

Nobody
12-10-07, 3:49 pm
I have a banana usually and a 20g whey shake... Probably not the best thing to eat... Could use some suggestions on what to eat before when on a time restraint.

rob_in_korea
12-10-07, 5:27 pm
I would take M-Stak later in the morning or take M-Stak without the red pill 15 mins before Pump. I am not sure what time you are waking up but you could try waking up 15 mins earlier and eating a larger meal (what type of food would depend on your goals).

-Rob

Nobody
12-10-07, 5:41 pm
I would take M-Stak later in the morning or take M-Stak without the red pill 15 mins before Pump. I am not sure what time you are waking up but you could try waking up 15 mins earlier and eating a larger meal (what type of food would depend on your goals).

-Rob

Thanks, yeah I'm going to try to wake up a bit earlier and eat a larger pre-workout meal and still eat a post workout meal. Might just take food with me and eat in class.

You don't have to take M-Stak on a empty stomach do you?

P.S. Iam on a bulk.

rob_in_korea
12-10-07, 10:35 pm
I usually take M-Stak 30-45 mins after a meal.

Shawn J
12-10-07, 10:57 pm
I have found that it doesn't hurt to take M- Stak and Pump with a lil food or even an shake. It' seems that it is a lil better on my stomach.

Roland
12-11-07, 1:21 am
Take M-stak 45 mins pre, then pump 20-30 mins pre. You should remove one of the stims. Good luck bro, M-stak is my favorite supp.

Nightshift
12-11-07, 1:36 am
M-Stack and Pump are a great combination! Enjoy the results.

pmug0000
12-11-07, 2:08 am
M-Stack and Pump are a great combination! Enjoy the results.

Agreed. I'm on my 3rd cycle of this combo and am still getting great results.

Big Z
12-11-07, 2:17 am
i am about to start this cycle... i am really pumped. I too am curious about when to take each for maximum results... ill keep posted.

kyderz
12-11-07, 6:09 am
How about this..

Go do a few lines, then you don't have to worry about it!

Just kidding bro.

I'd do what Roland said.

Makes some good sense, and I believe he has plenty of experience since M∙Stak is basically his favorite muscle-building supplement in the entire universe.

RobotsThink
12-11-07, 6:15 am
I usually take M-Stak 30-45 mins after a meal.

after a meal ?? it should not be taken with pre-workout meal ?

Nobody
12-11-07, 7:31 am
Take M-stak 45 mins pre, then pump 20-30 mins pre. You should remove one of the stims. Good luck bro, M-stak is my favorite supp.

Thanks, trainer@animalpak.com said the same exact thing so I'm going to so this one!

rob_in_korea
12-11-07, 8:25 am
after a meal ?? it should not be taken with pre-workout meal ?

If I was just taking M-Stak then maybe I would take it after a pre workout meal but right now I workout after work around 4:30pm so I take M-Stak at 1:00pm (with the red pill) and then I take Pump at 4:00pm.

Hoomgar
02-06-08, 3:22 pm
But do you take M-Stak with food or on an empty stomach? That question has not been directly answered and it doesn't say either way on the can. I need to know because I am about to start a cycle of it in 2 days. Any help is appreciated.

Dozer86
02-06-08, 3:36 pm
I have been on M-Stak for 5 days now and the way I have done it is take it 45 minutes before I hit the gym. Before that since I work out at about 4:30 every day about 3:30 I eat 2 peanut butter sandwhiches. Somethings light so I dont feel bloated in the gym. I personally would keep a light snack or protein bar on board just so i dont feel empty. and 15-20 minutes before I take my NO product. After I do my first warm-up exercise I can feel the pump. That is my advice never work out on an empty stomach a banana and protein shake isnt to bad. I would save a nice big meal for after ur workout to replinish your body.
After I am done with this specific NO product. Im jumping to pump. Keep us posted and ill let you know about my M-Stak/Pak Protein NO. Stack

Late

Universal Rep
02-06-08, 3:38 pm
Take M-stak 45 mins pre, then pump 20-30 mins pre. You should remove one of the stims. Good luck bro, M-stak is my favorite supp.

Good suggestion here R....

Phenom
02-08-08, 1:31 pm
Good suggestion here R....

I took Mstack/pump 45 mins. pre and 30 mins. pre respectively and got overly nautious during the middle of my workout so I stopped taking both..I shouldve removed one of the stims..maybe thats what was causing it

Latimer316
02-08-08, 1:36 pm
Yea man that is a good idea to take atleast one of them out. I've heard other people complain about that too. Thats a lot for some people til there body gets used to it. Also, for you or for anyone else out there. Is there a need to take Shock if I'm taking pump already? Also, does anyone reccomend torrent that have seen good results? Thanks fellas.

naturalguy
02-08-08, 1:39 pm
I took Mstack/pump 45 mins. pre and 30 mins. pre respectively and got overly nautious during the middle of my workout so I stopped taking both..I shouldve removed one of the stims..maybe thats what was causing it

That could have been it. Try it next time without one of the red pills

Hoomgar
02-08-08, 4:34 pm
Yea man that is a good idea to take atleast one of them out. I've heard other people complain about that too. Thats a lot for some people til there body gets used to it. Also, for you or for anyone else out there. Is there a need to take Shock if I'm taking pump already? Also, does anyone reccomend torrent that have seen good results? Thanks fellas.

From what I have read yeah you can use Shock or Pump but don't need both in the same day. That isn't saying that there isn't some way to do it, just that it is redundant and not needed since they are similar products.

As for Torrent, hands down the best recover shake I've tried to date! And I've tried quite a few. I am hooked. I wont workout without it now. You can run yourself completely out and then have your Torrent shake and you can literally feel it bringing the life back into your body. Excellent product.

Phenom
02-08-08, 6:13 pm
That could have been it. Try it next time without one of the red pills


seeing as I only have about 4 packs left, I dont see the marginal benefit of taking them now...I'll try it again over the summer. I'm currently on a cut. thx for the input tho

Latimer316
02-08-08, 8:35 pm
Right on thank you hoomgar. I'm gonna give it a shot then.

Deph
02-09-08, 12:15 pm
i am about to start taking the M-stak/pump combo as well, my question is best time to throw in the pak would be when?

ronald1919
02-09-08, 1:27 pm
I have a question about this combo on off days. Do you take everything in the morning ( m-STACK/ PAK/ PUMP) at the same time ?

rob_in_korea
02-09-08, 10:29 pm
On off days I would take Pump as soon as you wake up and then take M-Stak sometime later on (I would wait at least 30-45 mins after taking Pump though). I didn't take the red pill in M-Stak on off days. I would then take Pak after breakfast.

malton13
04-19-08, 9:18 pm
Im 15 and im taking animal pump i wanted to take m stak for 3 weeks and then after 3 weeks of m stak use animal cut is it a good idea?

MassMan
04-19-08, 9:56 pm
Im 15 and im taking animal pump i wanted to take m stak for 3 weeks and then after 3 weeks of m stak use animal cut is it a good idea?

No need for those at your age. Just Pak, protein, creatine and you're set. Leave the supps until you have more expierence (by NO means am I undermining your work).

malton13
04-19-08, 10:01 pm
whats creatine should i take

MassMan
04-19-08, 10:15 pm
whats creatine should i take

Plain old Creatine Monohydrate... most cost effective and only creatine to be proven in studies.... another great source is Storm by Universal Nutrition. Great product. I take it with EAA Stack during my workouts... solid products.

malton13
04-20-08, 8:57 pm
thanks bro

Pcon21
04-24-08, 11:30 am
I want to stak M Stak w/ Pak & Pump. Is this a good stack and what kind of gains could i expect to see.

thenothingthatis
05-10-08, 7:54 pm
I have some more questions. Since I eat a meal an hour before my workout, should I take m-stak and pump together 30 mins before workout? Or take m-stak with my meal? Also, I'm taking 200 mg R-ALA before that preworkout meal, and I read that pump also has R-ALA. SHould I lessen my R-ALA dosage to 100 mg R-ALA instead? Also, if I'm taking m-stak, is it redundant to supplement with elemental magnesium and b complex, since m-stak bumps up testosterone? And how much in calories should I be eating? (im 5'2", 145 lbs, 21% bodyfat). I want to gain strength and size but want to limit fat gain or even lose if possible. Thanks!

thenothingthatis
05-13-08, 7:38 pm
I tried m-stak and pump today. Didn't really feel anything.

BOGGS
05-13-08, 9:27 pm
hey, i've just had a similar experience...heard it hits some guys hard immediately and others it'll take up to a week or so. i'm on my third day, not getting the pump i so desire BUT i'm patient.

my stack:
pump
mstak
whey
multi vit
omega3 tab

thenothingthatis
05-13-08, 10:46 pm
This was my 2nd day and I honestly didn't feel any pump. The guys here rave about a pump so significant you actually have a bit of problem working out. To me it was just another day at the gym. I'm using the same stack as you too, although I also take in addition vit E, vit C, and ZMA. let's check each other's progress out man.

thenothingthatis
05-14-08, 7:53 pm
I'm on my 3rd day using m-stak/pump. I didn't notice any pumps like the guys here say. Although I think I sweat a bit more than usual and am less tired after a workout.

MassMan
05-14-08, 8:17 pm
Bro, you're rushing it. M Stak will make you feel more hungry. You're not gonna feel bigger in M Stak. You don't see or feel the results until you're through with the cycle. It helps with recovery and lean mass accrural. Pump, also, give it time. FOr some people, he first day provides intense pumps. Other people may take 1 to 2 weeks to fully see the benefits. Also, is your diet in check? What's your macro profile looking like? Eating enough carbs? How's the intensity with training? Are you resting too long, or using too heavy weights? Waay too many variables to effectively judge Pump and M Stak's potential. They are both phenomanible products and remember, you MUST have your diet in check.

Also, ya gettin enough sleep and water?

thenothingthatis
05-14-08, 8:28 pm
I'm 5'2", 142 lbs now, and my diet is around 2000-2200 calories, about 150-160 g protein, 200 g carbs more or less, the rest of it fat. I'm getting around 9 hours sleep nowadays and maybe 5 liters of water. My training program is EDT, doing mostly compound exercise like squats, deadlifts, military presses, pullups, dips, rows. I'm doing my 5RMs on these for now. On my off days I do HIIT.

MassMan
05-14-08, 8:34 pm
I'm 5'2", 142 lbs now, and my diet is around 2000-2200 calories, about 150-160 g protein, 200 g carbs more or less, the rest of it fat. I'm getting around 9 hours sleep nowadays and maybe 5 liters of water. My training program is EDT, doing mostly compound exercise like squats, deadlifts, military presses, pullups, dips, rows. I'm doing my 5RMs on these for now. On my off days I do HIIT.

What's EDT? Is HIIT high intensity training? If so, why would you do that on your off days? Are you doing any cardio? If so, cut it to a minimum. Also, you should boose the protein upto 200g. As to mention, what are you eating 2 hours before your workouts? This is a crucial time period and what you eat during this time will make or break your workouts. Give me as much detail as possible and we can hopefully sort things out.


Hey, don't ever give up hope or feel discouraged. Life will throw bullshit at you non stop. You have to remain strong both physically and mentally. You're gonna get somewhere, just don't rush it.

John-TNS
05-14-08, 8:43 pm
From what I have read yeah you can use Shock or Pump but don't need both in the same day. That isn't saying that there isn't some way to do it, just that it is redundant and not needed since they are similar products.

As for Torrent, hands down the best recover shake I've tried to date! And I've tried quite a few. I am hooked. I wont workout without it now. You can run yourself completely out and then have your Torrent shake and you can literally feel it bringing the life back into your body. Excellent product.

My favorite product in my cabinet as well

thenothingthatis
05-14-08, 8:47 pm
Thanks man. EDT, Escalating density training. I've been on it for 5 weeks now, going into my 6th. It's like when you do as many reps of an exercise as you can in 15 mins. When on the next workout you can do 20% more reps than the last time, you increase the weights by 5%, and so on. On the weight I'm currently doing my 5RMs so I'm a bit on a plateau.

Yes it's High intensity training. I just do that on my off days to make sure I don't get fat because I'm pretty much sedentary the whole day, especially now. But I'm doing only 15-30 minutes of it, just to get my blood running. That's not too much, right? I mean, I know people who like do an hour of cardio.

Won't 200 g protein make me fat, man? I do my workouts in the morning 6 am, so around 5 am I eat a 3/4 cup of whole grain cereal with milk, and a glass of whey (400 calories total). Right now I'm taking m-stak and pump 30 mins before workout. After my workout I usually eat bread, and another glass of whey (400 calories total). Then I usually eat every 3 hours after that, around 300 calories every meal. Usually some meat, beans, fruit, salad, whichever is available I mix it up. Then before bed, whey and milk. Sounds okay? Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night I drink a half glass milk to help keep anabolic.

Thanks for the help man.

Sir J-Werk
05-14-08, 8:53 pm
I have some more questions. Since I eat a meal an hour before my workout, should I take m-stak and pump together 30 mins before workout? Or take m-stak with my meal? Also, I'm taking 200 mg R-ALA before that preworkout meal, and I read that pump also has R-ALA. SHould I lessen my R-ALA dosage to 100 mg R-ALA instead? Also, if I'm taking m-stak, is it redundant to supplement with elemental magnesium and b complex, since m-stak bumps up testosterone? And how much in calories should I be eating? (im 5'2", 145 lbs, 21% bodyfat). I want to gain strength and size but want to limit fat gain or even lose if possible. Thanks!

On the can it states to take M-Stak 45 minutes pre-w/o.... Pump, 30 minutes pre-workout. (prefer. on an empty stomach for Pump so adjust accordingly.) If the additional supps that you take are already in M-Stak and Pump then KEEP THINGS SIMPLE and set them aside for now.... ANimal and universal have you covered....

I'll be honest I don't count calories, I count protien intake.... Someone your size should take in anywhere from 145 to 290gms of protien a day if strength and size are you goals.... In theory what will happen is that if your diet is spot on and you train hard and smart you will not only will your strength and gains increase but you will lean out somewhat as well.... Granted you will have some fat on your but that's okay.... Throw in some cardio in your workouts if you are concerned about fat....


I tried m-stak and pump today. Didn't really feel anything.


This was my 2nd day and I honestly didn't feel any pump. The guys here rave about a pump so significant you actually have a bit of problem working out. To me it was just another day at the gym.


I'm on my 3rd day using m-stak/pump. I didn't notice any pumps like the guys here say. Although I think I sweat a bit more than usual and am less tired after a workout.

I won't be the last one to state this but for most lifters out there that use Pump, the true effects won't really be noticed until approx. two weeks in.... Keep your mental focus sharp and attack every rep with purpose.... Work on getting a Mind to Muscle connection (Ref. Frank Zane).... You get that going and your pumps will be sick....

Rome wasn't built in a day, Brother. Good luck.

MassMan
05-14-08, 9:02 pm
Thanks man. EDT, Escalating density training. I've been on it for 5 weeks now, going into my 6th. It's like when you do as many reps of an exercise as you can in 15 mins. When on the next workout you can do 20% more reps than the last time, you increase the weights by 5%, and so on. On the weight I'm currently doing my 5RMs so I'm a bit on a plateau.

Yes it's High intensity training. I just do that on my off days to make sure I don't get fat because I'm pretty much sedentary the whole day, especially now. But I'm doing only 15-30 minutes of it, just to get my blood running. That's not too much, right? I mean, I know people who like do an hour of cardio.

Won't 200 g protein make me fat, man? I do my workouts in the morning 6 am, so around 5 am I eat a 3/4 cup of whole grain cereal with milk, and a glass of whey (400 calories total). Right now I'm taking m-stak and pump 30 mins before workout. After my workout I usually eat bread, and another glass of whey (400 calories total). Then I usually eat every 3 hours after that, around 300 calories every meal. Usually some meat, beans, fruit, salad, whichever is available I mix it up. Then before bed, whey and milk. Sounds okay? Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night I drink a half glass milk to help keep anabolic.

Thanks for the help man.


Here's the problem. You're working too much. No need to train on your of days. That is the time you grow, as well as sleep. The cardio in the morning is okay, I guess, but keep the sessions to a slow walk and no more than 3 sessions per week.

Another thing, your breakfast is too small.... on a bulk, your calories should be at 18 per pound of bodyweight. You mentioned your ~150lbs... your caloric intake should be at 2700. You're under maintainance. Boost the breakfast by eating eggs, go for 4 whole eggs. Don't worry about the fat or cholesterol. Unless you have history for heart disease, you're gonna be fine.

Another thing, protein does not make you fat. Neither do fats and carbs. carbs maybe, but that depends on the timing. You need protein becuase you need amino acids. You need protein because it also raises your metabolism. Protein is necessary for muscle growth.

Now, your diet is not supplying enough calories for muscle repair. Let's do this...

Meal 1: 4 eggs, 8 to 12oz milk, 1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2: 8 to 10oz red meat, 1 cup rice
Meal 3: 40g protein shake with milk, 2 tbsp PB
Meal 4: 8 to 10oz red meat or fatty fish, 1 cup rice or oatmeal
Meal 5: 40g protein shake with milk, 2 tbsp PB
Meal 6: 1 cup cottage cheese

Now, feel free to adjust the meals to fit your schedule. If the shakes are before and after workouts, remove the PB (peanut butter) and you should be set. Again, you need to eat to grow. The benefit of eating more calories than normal while on M Stak is becauase that shit allows the calories you eat to be used for muscle growth and tissue repair. Boost the calories to 2700, then to 3000, then to 3300 and so forth. Increase the calories by 3 to 500 every week or every other week by gauging your results by the mirror.

Hey, hang in there.

Sir J-Werk
05-14-08, 9:10 pm
Then before bed, whey and milk. Sounds okay? Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night I drink a half glass milk to help keep anabolic.

If you are taking ZMA you don't need to do this.... Take your ZMA 30-60 minutes before bedtime, preferably on an empty stomach.... For best results, avoid taking with dairy or calcium-containing foods or supplements. That will keep you anabolic while you are sleeping.

Edit; And to answer your question about increasing your protein intake and making you fat, read this thread. http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=13317

thenothingthatis
05-14-08, 9:15 pm
whoa, massman! that's a whole lot of food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's maybe 3000 calories right there! Okay I'll try upping my calories man. I don't eat rice though. Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical. I lost a lot of weight a year ago and I'm sort of afraid of getting all fat all over again. Plus, I'm endo. I get fat even with just a donut.

Thanks Sir J-werk! Can I take my ZMA 30-60 minutes before bed, then take my milk just right before I sleep?

Sir J-Werk
05-14-08, 9:22 pm
Thanks Sir J-werk! Can I take my ZMA 30-60 minutes before bed, then take my milk just right before I sleep?

I guess you could but it's really not needed.... I'm just simply going off of what is printed on the label....

thenothingthatis
05-15-08, 12:47 am
and massman, my maintenance is 1800 calories. It's when I'm eating that many calories that I maintain weight, from experience. So I thought 2200 calories should be enough, since it's 400 calories more than that. I think my metabolism is pretty slow, as I've lost considerable weight in the past.

SQUAT or DIE!
05-15-08, 1:31 am
Bro, you're rushing it. M Stak will make you feel more hungry. You're not gonna feel bigger in M Stak. You don't see or feel the results until you're through with the cycle. It helps with recovery and lean mass accrural. Pump, also, give it time. FOr some people, he first day provides intense pumps. Other people may take 1 to 2 weeks to fully see the benefits. Also, is your diet in check? What's your macro profile looking like? Eating enough carbs? How's the intensity with training? Are you resting too long, or using too heavy weights? Waay too many variables to effectively judge Pump and M Stak's potential. They are both phenomanible products and remember, you MUST have your diet in check.

Also, ya gettin enough sleep and water?

i couldnt agree more... though no personal knowledge of MStak (yet), ive heard it takes time.. and i felt PUMP the first day on it.. but yeah again everyone is different.. just wait a bit..

BOGGS
05-15-08, 2:47 pm
ok ok, day four, there it went...shoulders, triceps...i swole up like never before. kinda ouch at first, then got used to it and loved every rep there after.

i'm working like a freak, eating and eating, resting and hitting the supps , maybe i'll actually put on some weight [i'm 155 now] this time.

Cellerator65
05-15-08, 2:51 pm
and massman, my maintenance is 1800 calories. It's when I'm eating that many calories that I maintain weight, from experience. So I thought 2200 calories should be enough, since it's 400 calories more than that. I think my metabolism is pretty slow, as I've lost considerable weight in the past.

maintenance = 1800 cals with no exercise
you should try to take 3000 cals, add 600 cause you want to gain weight and another 600 because you exercise

thenothingthatis
05-15-08, 4:35 pm
maintenance = 1800 cals with no exercise
you should try to take 3000 cals, add 600 cause you want to gain weight and another 600 because you exercise

sorry, my mistake. I meant that when I eat 1800 calories and exercise at the gym, I maintain my weight. My maintenance diet, without exercise, is I think 1500-1600.

thenothingthatis
05-15-08, 7:52 pm
Hm, this is my fourth day on m-stak/pump and I felt something. I can sprint harder and I need less rest between sets. Let's see if this continues until next week.

ramXcus
05-18-08, 7:35 pm
Hiya... I'm gonna tell ya I'm an Ectomorph "Hardgainer" and I want to put on a lot more Muscle Mass then I already have.

This site (http://www.animalpak.com/[b) told me I should go try stacking a few of they're products. so I went 'n bought both Animal Pump and Animal M-Stack at GNC (http://www.gnc.com/home/index.jsp[b). Now I wanna know when to take them, n' how to get the best benefits from take'n em'.

You will help me out here, wont ya?

Joker-Roo
05-18-08, 7:37 pm
Hiya... I'm gonna tell ya I'm an Ectomorph "Hardgainer" and I want to put on a lot more Muscle Mass then I already have.

This site told me I should go try stacking a few of they're products. so I went 'n bought both Animal Pump and Animal M-Stack at GNC. Now I wanna know when to take them, n' how to get the best benefits from take'n em'.

You will help me out here, wont ya?



Hey Bro, You take your M-Stak 45 mins Pre-workout. Than 15 mins later ( so 30 mins before workout) take your pump. I did that stack little ways back and was awesome, Hope it treats you good.


Andru

ramXcus
05-18-08, 7:45 pm
Hey Bro, You take your M-Stak 45 mins Pre-workout. Than 15 mins later ( so 30 mins before workout) take your pump. I did that stack little ways back and was awesome, Hope it treats you good.


AndruThank ya, bro.

What ya said made a lot of sense to me and it was very informative. Thank ya for all your help, Andru.

hmmca
05-19-08, 9:16 am
Only thing to keep in mind is they both have the red "stim" pill in them, so try both and if you feel fine then go on ahead. If you feel like your getting to many stims, just delete the one from the pump pak and take it when you need a pick me up.

Jay_de
05-27-08, 3:34 pm
Hm, this is my fourth day on m-stak/pump and I felt something. I can sprint harder and I need less rest between sets. Let's see if this continues until next week.


I know i've mentioned this a few times in other threads, but I found that I responded better to Pump when I take it closer to my workout. I was taking it 30 or so minutes before (for almost a month) with nothing much happening. I changed it to 10 or so minutes before and started getting the effects everyone else has been reporting. Play with the timing and see if that helps any.

Hoomgar
05-28-08, 11:53 am
I know i've mentioned this a few times in other threads, but I found that I responded better to Pump when I take it closer to my workout. I was taking it 30 or so minutes before (for almost a month) with nothing much happening. I changed it to 10 or so minutes before and started getting the effects everyone else has been reporting. Play with the timing and see if that helps any.

Same here bro. About 10 minutes pre and let it kick in during. It is simply based on how fast our metabolism starts to work on stuff put in the gut.

thenothingthatis
05-29-08, 8:51 pm
Okay, I just want to post my progress. I'm on the tail end of my 3rd week using m-stak/pump. I was skeptical at first, but I can honestly say that I've had good strength gains. I added 20 lbs to my deadlift and 10 lbs to my squat. I was actually surprised because I was on a plateau on those lifts when I started the stack. I think it started working on my 12th day of taking it. I didn't always get a strong pump from animal pump, but after workouts I felt less tired/sore. Sometimes my mind would say "you can't lift THAT heavy!" but then when I tried I found that I actually could. I will definitely try this stack again.

thenothingthatis
06-17-08, 9:02 pm
Okay, after good results with the m-stak/pump combo and 1 week off, I'm starting another cycle. Although this time I'm thinking of also using stak? (I work out in the morning, so should I use m-stak before workouts, and stak in the pm, or vice versa? if so, why?) I was wondering if others have tried stacking pump, stak, and m-stak together.

Rambo, John J.
06-19-08, 5:56 pm
So I've been thinking of taking Pump and after reading everyones trials, I do think I'm gonna take the plunge. Still debating on taking M Stak with it. Any thoughts? I'm about 5'11'' 160 lbs, with probably single digit body fat. So I'm pretty ripped already due to a fast metabolism. I usually have a hard time putting on weight but when I do its usually lean muscle. So just wondering what you guys think.

jim_dunphy
06-20-08, 1:06 pm
This was exactly the information i was looking for...Thank you ....there is however one piece of info i'm searching for...with other NO type products you still take them on your off days usually in the AM. now i know that M-Stak is taken in the AM or early afternoon on the off days ...but i haven't seen any thing about pump on the off day. just an FYI i usually take my Pak in the AM

Rambo, John J.
06-20-08, 3:11 pm
but i haven't seen any thing about pump on the off day. just an FYI i usually take my Pak in the AM

I was wondering the same thing Jim. Should the pump be taken on days off? I work out early AM so on training days I would be taking my pump in the morning. Should I still take it when I wake up on off days too?

Enforcer
06-20-08, 3:12 pm
I'm wondering if animal pump and m-stak can be stacked together, and if so, when should they be taken? should i take them both before a workout?

M-Stak- 45 minutes before you train (if the stims are too much you can take out the red pill)
Pump- 20 minutes before you train

You can take Pump on non training days if you feel fit.

Jonken
06-25-08, 10:10 am
Hey guys. I would like to ask something about Mstak an Pump.

Do you think they could be any harm using them during an 6month-12month period? I know Mstak has to be cycles with 3weeks on, 1 off. Im 18 and 140LBS.

Just want to be sure about it before i make my big order.

stro6531
06-25-08, 10:12 am
Hey guys. I would like to ask something about Mstak an Pump.

Do you think they could be any harm using them during an 6month-12month period? I know Mstak has to be cycles with 3weeks on, 1 off. Im 18 and 140LBS.

Just want to be sure about it before i make my big order.

deff cycle the m-stak as directed...and eat!! lots of protein let the m-stak do its job

Enforcer
06-25-08, 10:13 am
Hey guys. I would like to ask something about Mstak an Pump.

Do you think they could be any harm using them during an 6month-12month period? I know Mstak has to be cycles with 3weeks on, 1 off. Im 18 and 140LBS.

Just want to be sure about it before i make my big order.

I would do M-Stak for 4-6 weeks straight, then take a week to two off and then repeat. With Animal Pump I would use a can, then take off a week or two, then go back on anohter can, and then repeat.

Jonken
06-25-08, 10:25 am
Yeah, i took one can of Mstak before summer, made me gain alot of quality mass. I just wanted to make sure it wont have any negative effects in the long run if i would cycle Mstak and pump for halv a year or maybe 1 year.

req110
07-15-08, 6:49 am
Hi, and what about to take Animal Pump 30 minutes before workout and Animal M-Stak (without energy pill) after workout?

RobotsThink
07-15-08, 8:09 am
Hi, and what about to take Animal Pump 30 minutes before workout and Animal M-Stak (without energy pill) after workout?


hi Req

M-stak is for making you ready for the workout , that may be an hr or couple of hrs ahead. Pump is pre-workout stack that will give you pump while using iron. So you will beat the real purpose of m-stack if you take it after excercise.

req110
07-15-08, 11:39 am
Thanks for feedback. I'm still not sure if better combo for mass gain is Pump w/ M-Stak (only BCAA, Protein + Maltodextrin after workout, monohydrat for non-workout days), or Pump (before) w/ Cell-Mass (after workout + protein). Because i'm not sure if that M-Stak can work for me 100%.

JKing55
11-15-08, 6:16 pm
What's up fellas, I'm new to this forum, but I took the M-Stak, Pump, and Pak stack and loved it. I would take the Pak in the morning, the Pump pre-workout, and then just took the M-Stak later that night without the red pill. Save those red pills. They work great later for a good boost. Good luck on this stack man. Try some Torrent post workout with this stack too man. That's always a great add.

holdyahead
11-30-08, 10:37 pm
When did you guys take m stak on non training days?

Hoomgar
12-01-08, 10:37 am
About 45 minutes pre-workout. Or just after what ever meal you eat last before you workout.

blaykeryan123
01-02-09, 6:35 pm
Hey today was my last day on animal stak. I want to try m-stak out, should i still wait a week before starting m-stak? thnks by the way i made good strength gains with stak

Hoomgar
01-05-09, 3:24 pm
Hey today was my last day on animal stak. I want to try m-stak out, should i still wait a week before starting m-stak? thnks by the way i made good strength gains with stak

You can start your M-Stak right away. The 2 products do not work the same way so no need to take a break before starting it. In fact, the sooner the better in an effort to keep your gains and build a little further.

Hg

3du
10-24-09, 7:25 pm
can I take m stack with food?

Hoomgar
10-26-09, 3:21 pm
can I take m stack with food?

Correct, you take M-Stak with or right after a meal.

Andyman18
07-30-10, 4:54 pm
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and new to pump/m stak. I plan on starting them both on Monday. I took one pak of pump the other day before my workout just cause I was really excited but I noticed I crashed super bad halfway through my work out. Do you think I'd have that problem if I took the red pills in both pump and m stak, or should I just drop the red pills in both?

Cygnus
07-30-10, 9:21 pm
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and new to pump/m stak. I plan on starting them both on Monday. I took one pak of pump the other day before my workout just cause I was really excited but I noticed I crashed super bad halfway through my work out. Do you think I'd have that problem if I took the red pills in both pump and m stak, or should I just drop the red pills in both?

Andy,

I don't fully know your history, so take this for what it's worth.

The only real way to test your tollerance to stimulants is to play around with the timing and amounts. I did the pump/m-stack routine in a staggered method whereby I took m-stack 45 minutes before working out (taking out the stim and saving it for a rainy day) and then taking pump 15 minutes before working out (leaving the stim in).

Something else to consider is the sheer amount of water you should be consuming: 1-1.5 gallons of water will help your body absorb and properly hydrate. I am always surprised to see how many people forget this, as "crashing" in the gym is many times due to dehydration. Without getting into the organic chemistry, I believe it has to due with water facilitating the in the separation of ATP into ADP so your body can use the energy...low on water means less overall energy available to you.

Final thing: what do your calories look like prior to working out? The other major crash possibility would be low blood sugar

So, to recap, you can absolutely take out both stims and see how that performs for you, take one out, or leave both in; it is what works best for you. Make sure you are hydrated and have some calories in the tank to be burned.

Andyman18
07-30-10, 9:51 pm
Andy,

I don't fully know your history, so take this for what it's worth.

The only real way to test your tollerance to stimulants is to play around with the timing and amounts. I did the pump/m-stack routine in a staggered method whereby I took m-stack 45 minutes before working out (taking out the stim and saving it for a rainy day) and then taking pump 15 minutes before working out (leaving the stim in).

Something else to consider is the sheer amount of water you should be consuming: 1-1.5 gallons of water will help your body absorb and properly hydrate. I am always surprised to see how many people forget this, as "crashing" in the gym is many times due to dehydration. Without getting into the organic chemistry, I believe it has to due with water facilitating the in the separation of ATP into ADP so your body can use the energy...low on water means less overall energy available to you.

Final thing: what do your calories look like prior to working out? The other major crash possibility would be low blood sugar

So, to recap, you can absolutely take out both stims and see how that performs for you, take one out, or leave both in; it is what works best for you. Make sure you are hydrated and have some calories in the tank to be burned.

It wasn't exactly a normal training day for me so that may be why it was off. I just threw that work out in right before I left town. Normally I'm pretty good with my water intake. It may be the blood sugar, I normally don't eat within 2 hours of working out to make sure my stomach is empty before I take my supplements.

Cygnus
07-30-10, 10:39 pm
It wasn't exactly a normal training day for me so that may be why it was off. I just threw that work out in right before I left town. Normally I'm pretty good with my water intake. It may be the blood sugar, I normally don't eat within 2 hours of working out to make sure my stomach is empty before I take my supplements.

That it wasn't a typical session for you is good (in the context of your stack) because your crashing now sounds like you might have overdid it. I remember after training deads and squats for over a year I finally got a trainer that was able to make me crash on my first leg day just by doing step-ups, body squats, and lunges...talk about humbling. All that blood flow and the body doesn't have a very sophisticated method to cool down so you flush out, leaving you light-headed. Rest, water, and some quick glucose get you back on the feet then.

Try a more normal workout with the stack; I'd be curious to know how it worked for you. I just cycled off this a couple days ago and managed to take off fat AND gain muscle, so it was worth doing.