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reaper68
03-30-09, 6:22 pm
I'm on a quest to hit 405. I have just started back lifting and currently can do a clean lift of 255 on bench. What actually surprised me was the fact I am so close to the max I could do in high school (275-85) when I was in a lot better shape and lifted all the time(was physically smaller then however). Anyways I just started back and that's where I am at.

Basically looking for what you guys think would be a good routine to hit this goal in under 2 years. I don't care how hard I have to work I will accomplish this goal. I am looking for only power and don't care about bulking at all, just pure strength.

Littlefry
03-30-09, 7:19 pm
A great routine for hitting a goal like that would be a 5x5 intermediate or advanced routine. Bill starrs/Madcows 5x5 intermediate routine works wonders for adding strenght as well as quality size. I ran 5x5 for 3 cycles at approximately 10-12 weeks per cycle heres some of my numbers before and after. If you need help setting up a 5x5 routine or have any question feel free to hit me up.

Bench 220x5 --> 300x5
Squat 385x5 --> 455x5
Barbell Row 185 --> 245x5

reaper68
03-30-09, 8:36 pm
Well I was defiantly leaning that direction. When I did lift for competition long ago when I was only 165 and a sophomore in high school that's type of program I stuck to. I've grown a lot since those days I would probably cut to about 190 I would think these days. I should have never stopped lifting when I graduated I was a very solid 205, but I had broken my wrist which really limited my bench at that time. Now apparently I no longer get the shooting pain when I load it so its time to push the hell out of things and see what I can do.

shizz702
03-30-09, 8:44 pm
Two things that I know for certain that it will take is PATIENCE and HARD WORK!

Very few reach that elite level of raw bench strength, and shit I'm far from it myself, but regardless lifts like that take lots of patience, persistence, and effort.

Make sure you eat like there is no tomorrow, train hard on the basic exercises, dump all useless isolation ones, and stay dedicated.

The madcow 5x5 would be good, or you may want to look into the texas method: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Texas_Method

redskin 344
03-31-09, 11:30 am
or you could practice the exercise everyday while avoiding fatigue and overtraining. My guidline is to do as many sets of 1-3 rep with around 90%1RM throughout the week as you can while constantly varying the volume and exercise variation. If you wanna get good at benching, practice ONLY benching and its variations as much as possible until you are strong enough for 405.

Practice makes perfect if you want fast strength gains. Strength is a skill and just like any other skill you practice as much as possible while staying as fresh as possible. With super low reps you will have a much faster recovery time and will be able to train/practice more frequently and will gain super fast strength since the reps are so low and specific to max strength.

IRBS
03-31-09, 11:57 am
or you could practice the exercise everyday while avoiding fatigue and overtraining. My guidline is to do as many sets of 1-3 rep with around 90%1RM throughout the week as you can while constantly varying the volume and exercise variation. If you wanna get good at benching, practice ONLY benching and its variations as much as possible until you are strong enough for 405.

Practice makes perfect if you want fast strength gains. Strength is a skill and just like any other skill you practice as much as possible while staying as fresh as possible. With super low reps you will have a much faster recovery time and will be able to train/practice more frequently and will gain super fast strength since the reps are so low and specific to max strength.

DO NOT do this...this is NOT how you bench 405...Benching everyday will not get you anywhere because you will never be able to get anything accomplished. With super low reps you will NOT have faster recovery time unless you are using rediculously low weight. Honestly, this is some of the worst advice I have seen...

My advice is to set small goals. I have a 425 Raw Bench, but I didnt get there by starting at 255 saying I wanted to bench 405. Small goals...300, 315, 350, 365, 385...take small accomplishments and turn them into bigger ones. Hit a number a build off of that.

There are tons of programs out there that will work (5x5, 5/3/1, Westside, Metal Melitia, etc), but bottom line, you will be looking at hard work a dedication to accomplishing your goals.

Good luck,
IRBS

Jay Hanisak
03-31-09, 12:04 pm
The 5 x 5 worked well for me and eventually I transitioned to a westside program. best advice I can give is set short term goals and then go from there. Don't look for 405 yet, go for 275. When you hit that move on to 300 and so on. It takes time, patience, and lots and lots of dedication. Good luck bro.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 12:13 pm
DO NOT do this...this is NOT how you bench 405...Benching everyday will not get you anywhere because you will never be able to get anything accomplished. With super low reps you will NOT have faster recovery time unless you are using rediculously low weight. Honestly, this is some of the worst advice I have seen...

My advice is to set small goals. I have a 425 Raw Bench, but I didnt get there by starting at 255 saying I wanted to bench 405. Small goals...300, 315, 350, 365, 385...take small accomplishments and turn them into bigger ones. Hit a number a build off of that.

There are tons of programs out there that will work (5x5, 5/3/1, Westside, Metal Melitia, etc), but bottom line, you will be looking at hard work a dedication to accomplishing your goals.

Good luck,
IRBS

What do you mean that he will not get anything accomplished?

Strength is built by tensing muscles harder, not my exhausting them with reps. Low reps DO offer much quicker recovery time allowing you to train much more frequently and low reps and specific to max strength. You do not need to do SUPER LOW WEIGHT. You do heavy weight and doing relatively heavy weight with low reps is not nearly enough volume to exhaust you. Can you honestly say that you feel fatigued after doing your 1-3RM or after doing your 15RM..

And yes you will accomplish something..STRENGTH. Your mind will be adapted to providing your muscles with force and tension and you will gain strength FAST. You slowly build up by increasing the weight and frequency slowly.

Again..strength is a SKILL. Dont you think that if you practiced something everyday while staying fresh and strong, that you would get much better than practicing only once or twice a week?

TigerAce01
03-31-09, 12:26 pm
What do you mean that he will not get anything accomplished?

Strength is built by tensing muscles harder, not my exhausting them with reps. Low reps DO offer much quicker recovery time allowing you to train much more frequently and low reps and specific to max strength. You do not need to do SUPER LOW WEIGHT. You do heavy weight and doing relatively heavy weight with low reps is not nearly enough volume to exhaust you. Can you honestly say that you feel fatigued after doing your 1-3RM or after doing your 15RM..

And yes you will accomplish something..STRENGTH. Your mind will be adapted to providing your muscles with force and tension and you will gain strength FAST. You slowly build up by increasing the weight and frequency slowly.

Again..strength is a SKILL. Dont you think that if you practiced something everyday while staying fresh and strong, that you would get much better than practicing only once or twice a week?

Actually, the muscle building process is quite a bit different than you just pointed out.

The whole process begins when the existing muscles in the body are put under extreme stress, such as when they push or pull more weight then they are used to pushing and pulling.

When muscles are asked to do more work than they are accustomed to, they suffer minor ruptures. You'll feel these micro-tears as muscle soreness. These mini-injuries are repaired while the body rests. The resulting muscle is slightly larger than before, better able to handle the stress that caused the initial tears.

A bodybuilder maximizes the muscle building process by continuously escalating the stress level place on muscle groups. This is accomplished by increasing the amount of weight, the repetitions of the exercises and/or changing the type of exercise used on a specific muscle, causing new micro-tears, building the muscle more and more.

Rest, slowly building up weight, increasing reps, and changing up the routine. That's what's needed.

-Ace

IRBS
03-31-09, 12:27 pm
What do you mean that he will not get anything accomplished?

Strength is built by tensing muscles harder, not my exhausting them with reps. Low reps DO offer much quicker recovery time allowing you to train much more frequently and low reps and specific to max strength. You do not need to do SUPER LOW WEIGHT. You do heavy weight and doing relatively heavy weight with low reps is not nearly enough volume to exhaust you. Can you honestly say that you feel fatigued after doing your 1-3RM or after doing your 15RM..

And yes you will accomplish something..STRENGTH. Your mind will be adapted to providing your muscles with force and tension and you will gain strength FAST. You slowly build up by increasing the weight and frequency slowly.

Again..strength is a SKILL. Dont you think that if you practiced something everyday while staying fresh and strong, that you would get much better than practicing only once or twice a week?

Listen bro, yes, youre right you could bench every day of the week doing 1-3 reps of your 15RM and not get worn out, but I garuntee you will not have any appreciable sucess in doing so. Has this program gotten you to a 400lbs bench? I know for a fact the things that I listed do work in building a bench from 250 to 300 to 315 to 350 to 385 to 405 to 425. I hope you prove me wrong, but I am willing to bet just about anything that you will not put up any decent numbers using the method you outlined.

Skill is an aspect of strength, it does not make up the whole thing. I dont care how "skilled" you are...if you are still weak, you will still be weak.

KiNgKoNgPrOnGeD
03-31-09, 12:30 pm
What do you mean that he will not get anything accomplished?

Strength is built by tensing muscles harder, not my exhausting them with reps. Low reps DO offer much quicker recovery time allowing you to train much more frequently and low reps and specific to max strength. You do not need to do SUPER LOW WEIGHT. You do heavy weight and doing relatively heavy weight with low reps is not nearly enough volume to exhaust you. Can you honestly say that you feel fatigued after doing your 1-3RM or after doing your 15RM..

And yes you will accomplish something..STRENGTH. Your mind will be adapted to providing your muscles with force and tension and you will gain strength FAST. You slowly build up by increasing the weight and frequency slowly.

Again..strength is a SKILL. Dont you think that if you practiced something everyday while staying fresh and strong, that you would get much better than practicing only once or twice a week?

Listen bro, IRBS knows what he's talking about, he is an accomplished powerlifter and his gone through the grind to get where he's at. Ask ANY veteran in powerlifting about bench, you will NOT make strength gains benching several times a week doing TRUE 1-3RM. Trust me bro, I'm youngin' in the powerlifting game and benching HEAVY for minimal reps and sets takes a major toll on my body, and I only bench ONCE a week.

Sure, what you say may only work for a week, IF THAT, but lifting heavy day in and day out take a tremdnous toll on the CNS. Unless you are a freak-of-nature and recover the day after your done training heavy...I'd advise not to do it by your guidelines.

G Diesel
03-31-09, 12:40 pm
I'd say it probably took me 2 years to get to 225, 3 or so years to go from 225 to 315 and another 3+ yrs to get to 405 and I've been fucking with 405 for a couple of years now, with a ways to go before I get to 5 pies. It is a long road of 52 chest sessions a year and a couple of good two or so month strength cycles per year in which you make your best gains. Don't make the mistake of thinking it happens overnight. Real, enduring raw strength takes time, patience and consistency.

Peace, G

sodapop
03-31-09, 1:17 pm
What do you mean that he will not get anything accomplished?

Strength is built by tensing muscles harder, not my exhausting them with reps. Low reps DO offer much quicker recovery time allowing you to train much more frequently and low reps and specific to max strength. You do not need to do SUPER LOW WEIGHT. You do heavy weight and doing relatively heavy weight with low reps is not nearly enough volume to exhaust you. Can you honestly say that you feel fatigued after doing your 1-3RM or after doing your 15RM..

And yes you will accomplish something..STRENGTH. Your mind will be adapted to providing your muscles with force and tension and you will gain strength FAST. You slowly build up by increasing the weight and frequency slowly.

Again..strength is a SKILL. Dont you think that if you practiced something everyday while staying fresh and strong, that you would get much better than practicing only once or twice a week?

You're oversimplifying strength. Strength is NOT a skill. Skill, as IRBS said, is a PART of strength, but it's more than that. What you're basically saying is that a skinny, 120 lb kid who is very "skilled" at benching could put up 405. That's just not possible. Strength is not a skill in the sense that riding a bike is a skill.

mark
03-31-09, 2:09 pm
An important thing that hasn't been mentioned is the effects of heavy weight on the CNS.
Strength is as much a portrayl of the CNS as it is the muscles.
The CNS recovers at about 1/3 the rate of the muscles. So while the muscles may feel recovered, the nervous systems is far from recovered. Therefore, training heavy bench several times a week is a sure way to over train your body

And that's without the risk of tearing connective tissue, which is stressed even more so than the actualy muscle bellies when lifting heavy. Figure, connective tissue recover at about 1/2 the rate as muscle tissue, and now not only is your CNS over trained, you're on a sure path to start ripping muscles off the bone.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 2:14 pm
You're oversimplifying strength. Strength is NOT a skill. Skill, as IRBS said, is a PART of strength, but it's more than that. What you're basically saying is that a skinny, 120 lb kid who is very "skilled" at benching could put up 405. That's just not possible. Strength is not a skill in the sense that riding a bike is a skill.


hahaha.....

I'm sorry but strength IS a skill. . Strenth is about TENSING MUSCLES HARDER... you can have all the muscle in the world but it can all be retard muscle which you have no clue how to properly tense to create incredible force.

For your information very "skilled" 120 pounder benching 405 IS possible, dont give me that bull. You have no clue what you are talking about.

What if I showed you a video of a european powerlifter who is very "skilled" at benching and pushed 520lbs@ only 145 bodyweight?

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/1228_alexey_sivokon_232.5kg_benchpress_at_67.5

redskin 344
03-31-09, 2:17 pm
An important thing that hasn't been mentioned is the effects of heavy weight on the CNS.
Strength is as much a portrayl of the CNS as it is the muscles.
The CNS recovers at about 1/3 the rate of the muscles. So while the muscles may feel recovered, the nervous systems is far from recovered. Therefore, training heavy bench several times a week is a sure way to over train your body

And that's without the risk of tearing connective tissue, which is stressed even more so than the actualy muscle bellies when lifting heavy. Figure, connective tissue recover at about 1/2 the rate as muscle tissue, and now not only is your CNS over trained, you're on a sure path to start ripping muscles off the bone.

But if you completely avoid failure, used around 85-90%1RM and did sets of superlow reps throughout the day everyday with plenty of rest in between sets and making sure you are always fresh, you wont overtrain. INstead you will be incredible strong.

brandonA
03-31-09, 2:27 pm
hahaha.....

I'm sorry but strength IS a skill. . Strenth is about TENSING MUSCLES HARDER... you can have all the muscle in the world but it can all be retard muscle which you have no clue how to properly tense to create incredible force.

For your information very "skilled" 120 pounder benching 405 IS possible, dont give me that bull. You have no clue what you are talking about.

What if I showed you a video of a european powerlifter who is very "skilled" at benching and pushed 520lbs@ only 145 bodyweight?

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/1228_alexey_sivokon_232.5kg_benchpress_at_67.5

Not to add any fuel to the fire, but that is not a raw bench, he is wearing a single ply bench shirt.

You have some good points, but so does everyone elas. Forgive me, but I find it hard to believe that you have it all figured out at the ripe ol' age of 18. Now lets make sure that we are not arguing amongst ourselves, but offering the best info we have to help the OP reach his goals....

-B

mark
03-31-09, 2:29 pm
Sivoken spent most of the time training in the 70-80% range. He would only go 90+% in training for about 4 weeks a meet. And he may have done 3 lifts for each of the big three during he course of the training week.

Oh, and by the way, Sivoken was tanked to the gills on the sauce. He has the second highest test:epi test ratio ever recorded by the IPF. Oh, and he failed he drug test so many times they banned him for life from the IPF.

So for a guy who's asking how to do it drug free, you sure as hell picked a great example! Good job son!

mark
03-31-09, 2:35 pm
But if you completely avoid failure, used around 85-90%1RM and did sets of superlow reps throughout the day everyday with plenty of rest in between sets and making sure you are always fresh, you wont overtrain. INstead you will be incredible strong.


Ok, now your neglecting workload. If you don't do enough work with in a certain range before you body starts the recovery process, you'll never elict a training effect which means you'll never see any gains because the body will never be forced to adapt.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 3:02 pm
Ok, now your neglecting workload. If you don't do enough work with in a certain range before you body starts the recovery process, you'll never elict a training effect which means you'll never see any gains because the body will never be forced to adapt.

Thats if you want to build muscle. And you are always making your body adapt to a workload. You are doing so many submaximal sets that your mind has adapter to giving your muscles 'nerve force' and therefor they become more skilled at tensing harder and harder without gaining any size.

Believe it or not strength IS a skill. It comes from learning how to tense muscles harder rather than make them bigger like bodybuilders do.

Universal Rep
03-31-09, 3:03 pm
Believe it or not strength IS a skill.

Do you mean strength, as a function of power is a "skill" or the actual application of that power?

redskin 344
03-31-09, 3:05 pm
Not to add any fuel to the fire, but that is not a raw bench, he is wearing a single ply bench shirt.

You have some good points, but so does everyone elas. Forgive me, but I find it hard to believe that you have it all figured out at the ripe ol' age of 18. Now lets make sure that we are not arguing amongst ourselves, but offering the best info we have to help the OP reach his goals....

-B

it doesnt matter. If he takes the bench shirt off will his bench suddenly drop down from 520 to 150lbs?

redskin 344
03-31-09, 3:08 pm
Do you mean strength, as a function of power is a "skill" or the actual application of that power?

I mean that strength is a skill on how to contract your muscles harder to generate great force. A bodybuilder can have all the muscle in the world but could still be beaten in an arm wrestling match or be outbenched by a guy have his size because the bodybuilder has high quantity but low quality muscle while the little guy has low quantity but high quality 'smart' muscle and knows how to tense them properly to generate incredible strength. He 'practices' his strength as frequently as possible instead of 'works out' and his mind has become adapted quickly to providing nerve force to his muscles because they are always under pressure but never to the point where they become overtrained and fatigued.

Universal Rep
03-31-09, 3:13 pm
I mean that strength is a skill on how to contract your muscles harder to generate great force. A bodybuilder can have all the muscle in the world but could still be beaten in an arm wrestling match or be outbenched by a guy have his size because the bodybuilder has high quantity but low quality muscle while the little guy has low quantity but high quality 'smart' muscle and knows how to tense them properly to generate incredible strength. He 'practices' his strength as frequently as possible instead of 'works out' and his mind has become adapted quickly to providing nerve force to his muscles because they are always under pressure but never to the point where they become overtrained and fatigued.

You could argue that it's a different "kind" of strength as opposed to a "skill". Bodybuilders don't train for 1RM. Sculptin' muscles is a different task than puttin' up a heavy rep. Sure, it's about training, but the training and the conditioning, I'd consider the skill.... Not the strength. Anyways, it's all semantics. My $0.02.

fenix237
03-31-09, 3:26 pm
I'd say it probably took me 2 years to get to 225, 3 or so years to go from 225 to 315 and another 3+ yrs to get to 405 and I've been fucking with 405 for a couple of years now, with a ways to go before I get to 5 pies. It is a long road of 52 chest sessions a year and a couple of good two or so month strength cycles per year in which you make your best gains. Don't make the mistake of thinking it happens overnight. Real, enduring raw strength takes time, patience and consistency.

Peace, G

i hear ya' bro! i've been stuck in the lower 4's for awhile and want to hit 5 at some point- i have some links off the forvm to try some new programs to git r done!

OP; i'm certainly not in the league of the fellas on here, but my bench is currently 435 with wristwraps only. for me it took time, eating the right shit, and like the bros said, set smaller goals. i always used the plates as benchmarks- 225,275,295,315,365 etc...

i'm not saying it's the best method, but i basically cycle benching, squatting, deadlifting programs, where i focus hard and heavy on one for 6-8 weeks for a maximum increase in a short time, then back off and start with the squat/deads. next time i start the bench program, my bench PR might have decreased by 20-30lbs, but then i jack it up again on the program- kind of like 2 steps forward 1 step back.

brandonA
03-31-09, 3:28 pm
it doesnt matter. If he takes the bench shirt off will his bench suddenly drop down from 520 to 150lbs?

Possibly, I don't know what his raw max is...But how is that knowledge going to help the OP on his quest to 405? Have we lost sight of the original question? I was just pointing out that your example was not a raw bench. If you want to have a raw vs. equipped bench discussion we can, but not in this thread...

-B

Fury317
03-31-09, 3:38 pm
Believe it or not strength IS a skill. It comes from learning how to tense muscles harder rather than make them bigger like bodybuilders do.

As Brandon stated, I dont really want to get into this either, but this is incorrect. Youre are VASTLY oversimplifying "strength". There is so much more that goes into raw power than just if you are "good at flexing your muscle". How the CNS works to fire certain muscles, etc. If you bench everyday you will get no where, period. You WILL overtrain and you WILL injure yourself. End of story. Stop arguing it. I really, really dont want to be a dick, but this is absurd. Bench once, maybe twice a week.

Listen to IRBS and G. They know their stuff.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 5:38 pm
As Brandon stated, I dont really want to get into this either, but this is incorrect. Youre are VASTLY oversimplifying "strength". There is so much more that goes into raw power than just if you are "good at flexing your muscle". How the CNS works to fire certain muscles, etc. If you bench everyday you will get no where, period. You WILL overtrain and you WILL injure yourself. End of story. Stop arguing it. I really, really dont want to be a dick, but this is absurd. Bench once, maybe twice a week.

Listen to IRBS and G. They know their stuff.

Yes you are right. If you bench every day u will end up overtraining and suffering the side effects, but if you train every day with 80-90%1RM with low reps and only do a set WHEN FRESH, then there is no chance overtraining will occur.

WHy dont you try it out. For a week, take around 90%1RM for your bench press and do sets of 1-2 reps as often as you can while completely avoiding fatigue/overtraining and focusing completely on strict form, tension and technique. Only practice when you feel fresh and I guarantee with low reps you will feel fresh. Slowly build up the weight and constantly do different variations of the bench press daily (ex. flat dumbell bench press, incline/decline barebll bench..) and vary the volume daily to avoid overuse and keep your body guessing.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 5:40 pm
Possibly, I don't know what his raw max is...But how is that knowledge going to help the OP on his quest to 405? Have we lost sight of the original question? I was just pointing out that your example was not a raw bench. If you want to have a raw vs. equipped bench discussion we can, but not in this thread...

-B

the OP will reach his goal fast of benching 405 by PRACTICING bench pressing. Strength IS a skill.. a skill of focusing on tensing the muscle even harder. You cant expect anyone to simply hop on a bench and press 500 lbs mindlessly, it requires perfect focus and technique and that is what I am talking about.

prowrestler
03-31-09, 6:07 pm
try westside barbell template out. its a good one. you gotta remember though, if your goals are to be good at lifting weight, train accordingly. train like an athlete.

-strength
-hypertrophy
-mobility

5x5 is real good, ive seen people make huge gains on it. to the point where i got jelouse LOL!

do whatever routine you want man, just remember to crucial things


1. whatever you do, your gonna have to bust ass and do it with passion and intelligence.

2. DO NOT bench often with whatever the fuck %'s where offered before. you not only wont make gains but hey? maybe break muscle structures. ALRIGHTTT!

prowrestler
03-31-09, 6:09 pm
the OP will reach his goal fast of benching 405 by PRACTICING bench pressing. Strength IS a skill.. a skill of focusing on tensing the muscle even harder. You cant expect anyone to simply hop on a bench and press 500 lbs mindlessly, it requires perfect focus and technique and that is what I am talking about.

u can have the most perfect technique in the world, doesnt mean you'll out bench ryan kennely.

hell, doesnt mean you'll out bench that big dude from your gym...now that i think about..what does it mean?

look at any top deadlift pulled and tell me how perfect their form was.

prowrestler
03-31-09, 6:10 pm
Sivoken spent most of the time training in the 70-80% range. He would only go 90+% in training for about 4 weeks a meet. And he may have done 3 lifts for each of the big three during he course of the training week.

Oh, and by the way, Sivoken was tanked to the gills on the sauce. He has the second highest test:epi test ratio ever recorded by the IPF. Oh, and he failed he drug test so many times they banned him for life from the IPF.

So for a guy who's asking how to do it drug free, you sure as hell picked a great example! Good job son!

first off LMAO!

second, very good points.

mark
03-31-09, 6:20 pm
Thats if you want to build muscle. And you are always making your body adapt to a workload. You are doing so many submaximal sets that your mind has adapter to giving your muscles 'nerve force' and therefor they become more skilled at tensing harder and harder without gaining any size.

Believe it or not strength IS a skill. It comes from learning how to tense muscles harder rather than make them bigger like bodybuilders do.

No, it's not! Have you ever heard of Prelipin's Table/Chart?

I'm going with no! It was developed by the Russians to use with their weightlifters in order to help control volume. They weren't after developing muscle hypertrophy/size, they were after speed and strength.

And to further enhance this, unless you fatigue the nervous system and stress it as well, it will never become more efficient by allowing for proliferation of nervous receptor site within the targeted muscle during the recovery phase.

prowrestler
03-31-09, 6:37 pm
I mean that strength is a skill on how to contract your muscles harder to generate great force. A bodybuilder can have all the muscle in the world but could still be beaten in an arm wrestling match or be outbenched by a guy have his size because the bodybuilder has high quantity but low quality muscle while the little guy has low quantity but high quality 'smart' muscle and knows how to tense them properly to generate incredible strength. He 'practices' his strength as frequently as possible instead of 'works out' and his mind has become adapted quickly to providing nerve force to his muscles because they are always under pressure but never to the point where they become overtrained and fatigued.

ughhh, marius pud' aint small and all quality by any means, hes fuckin jacked and all quality.

the actual difference between bodybuilders and strength athletes would be that bodybuilders have alot of sourounding structure growth and voulumization occuring while strength guys have ACTUAL muscle fiber growth. that gives the "hard, run threw a house" look.

reasons coleman won 8 mr O's, he had quality and massive quantity.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 8:10 pm
Yea absolutlety you're right. Strength is not a skill at all, it is completely dependent on muscle fiber diameter.

But just for the heck of it, I'll spend a month 'practicing' my strength and I'll see how it goes.

redskin 344
03-31-09, 8:13 pm
ughhh, marius pud' aint small and all quality by any means, hes fuckin jacked and all quality.

the actual difference between bodybuilders and strength athletes would be that bodybuilders have alot of sourounding structure growth and voulumization occuring while strength guys have ACTUAL muscle fiber growth. that gives the "hard, run threw a house" look.

reasons coleman won 8 mr O's, he had quality and massive quantity.

Well Marius has both muscle size and skill on how to tense it to generate great force. I never said it had to be only one or the other. I was just saying that bodybuilders focus too much on gaining size instead of getting the technique to tense it harder and generate great force.

By quality muscle, I meant 'smart' muscle that is skilled at tensing. Ronnie is one of the biggest guys out there but definately not the strongest.

shizz702
03-31-09, 8:33 pm
Ronnie is one of the biggest guys out there but definately not the strongest.

Dude, come on now, have you seen his vids on youtube? He's benching 495 for reps shirtless, squatting 800, pulling 800, rowing 495, front squatting 495, and leg pressing 2k+, the man is fuck strong. How many people do you know stronger than that?

Let's not overanalyze this shit, strength builds muscle, and muscle lifts weight. While there are some things to be said for technique and what not, but take a look at strongman comps and PL meets, the big boys are lifting the big weights.

And I fail to understand how one would get stronger at benching or anything for that matter by doing it everyday. The muscles need at least 48 hrs for adequate recovery, so how would one be able to recover and make gains by benching everyday? 80-90% is a very taxing load on the CNS. Plus how are you going to get stronger if you just stay at 80-90%?

In order to get stronger you HAVE to disrupt homeostasis and give your body a greater stress to adapt to. That is how one develops more strength and muscle. If you were to bench every day at 80-90%, one of two things would happen, either you'd maintain the same strength at 80-90%, or you would just burn out. I'd venture to say it would probably be the latter.

Btw, what kind of gains have you made by training in this fashion? How much are you benching?

Tanth
03-31-09, 9:10 pm
I am sure this is slightly off topic but in ever post by redskin you have mentioned "tense muscle harder" can you explain what you mean by this. Contract them hard? squeeze them harder? I dont understand what tensing your muscle harder means.

Mizzarler
03-31-09, 9:21 pm
If you want a big bench, your gonna have to train everything...sorry, ive used this 8 day split for a while to get me to a projected raw 1rm of 435 lbs, i dont ever max...
quads
chest
off
back
delts/hams
arms
off
off

heavy military presses, heavy skulls and close grips, and build up your back and your bench will soar if your nutrition is on point...i dont go heavy every week though... 5-20 reps depending on the week...theres not just 1 way to get a 405 bench, IRBS had some good points as well

Firefist
03-31-09, 9:46 pm
Im sorry to interupt, but i dont think the OP has gotten the answer to his question yet. haha.

good points have been made.

I dont think its in my place to reccomend a routine, but i can add this little bit of advice.

1. HEAVY SHOULDER TRAINING!!! its so neglected, but after focusing hard on laterals and military presses, it was no suprise to me that my DB presses went up 20 pounds with the same rep range.
2. HEAVY TRICEP TRAINING!!! less neglected than shoulders, but most people dont do them right. It is important to get heavy closegrips in, I tuck the shoulders in so the chest gets less work. Also, heavy skullies are phenominal for getting them bigger, and oh so sore might i add. Try keeping the arms stationary, mostly moving from the elbows up to isolate the tris better, all the way down nice and slow on the negatives. weighted dips also. Reading up on futilekyles journey with george farah, doing ASSISTED dips even WITHOUT weghts, focusing on negatives is such are a major part of his work. THEN at the end, with barely anything left, throw a few sets of pushdowns if your still rarin to go. Too many people get their WHOLE tricep workout out of cables, and i personally think it hinders them.
3. BACK TRAINING- think of it as a launching pad =), a stronger and wider launching pad sounds good dont it?

good luck bro!

Jonisocool
03-31-09, 10:15 pm
sensu beans, or whatever the fuck goku ate on DBZ to recover when his CNS was fried!

Then you can bench whenever the fuck you want!

But to make this post somewhat constructive,

If you are looking to bench more than once a week, take a look at west side training. Helps you practice speed/dynamics/form and train your 1RM.

prowrestler
03-31-09, 10:34 pm
ps, shizz owned.

O.P., LIFT HEAVY,EAT HEAVY,MAKE GAINS

do westside barbells program. any program besides benching 23 times per week

redskin 344
04-01-09, 3:55 pm
Dude, come on now, have you seen his vids on youtube? He's benching 495 for reps shirtless, squatting 800, pulling 800, rowing 495, front squatting 495, and leg pressing 2k+, the man is fuck strong. How many people do you know stronger than that?

Let's not overanalyze this shit, strength builds muscle, and muscle lifts weight. While there are some things to be said for technique and what not, but take a look at strongman comps and PL meets, the big boys are lifting the big weights.

And I fail to understand how one would get stronger at benching or anything for that matter by doing it everyday. The muscles need at least 48 hrs for adequate recovery, so how would one be able to recover and make gains by benching everyday? 80-90% is a very taxing load on the CNS. Plus how are you going to get stronger if you just stay at 80-90%?

In order to get stronger you HAVE to disrupt homeostasis and give your body a greater stress to adapt to. That is how one develops more strength and muscle. If you were to bench every day at 80-90%, one of two things would happen, either you'd maintain the same strength at 80-90%, or you would just burn out. I'd venture to say it would probably be the latter.

Btw, what kind of gains have you made by training in this fashion? How much are you benching?


1) You would get stronger by benching everyday because you would be PRACTICING as frequently as possible. Instead of working your muscles, you are training your mind to adapt to giving the muscles more and more nerve force so the focus on tensing the muscle harder is greater. You do low reps because low reps are not only the best way for fast strength gains and specific to max strength, but are also the easiest to recover from meaning more training practice meaning faster strength. How does this not make sense.

2) Again, Ronnie is the biggest guy out there but not the strongest. Not to say that benching over 495 and squatting and deadlifting 800 lbs is weak, but there are many powerlifters half his size who do much more becuase they are more SKILLED. You can be the strongest man in the world just with the muscle you have right now, you just dont have the skill level to do so.

3) You stick with around 90%#RM and as you feel it gets easier, you slowly increase the load. You dont work with 100%#RM because that would burn you out in a hurry, eventhough the first few sets would be okay, you want to train as long as possible without fatiguing.

Tensing muscles harder will give you much greater strength than making them bigger. How do people not get this.

fenix237
04-01-09, 4:23 pm
Reskin344; i followed this thread from the start, may i ask where you learned of this method of training? i see your 18, thus not basing this on emperical evidence

believe me, i'm not trying to be a dick, but if you cited legitimate sources, then we can all read into it more and maybe learn something....

IRBS
04-01-09, 4:29 pm
1) You would get stronger by benching everyday because you would be PRACTICING as frequently as possible. Instead of working your muscles, you are training your mind to adapt to giving the muscles more and more nerve force so the focus on tensing the muscle harder is greater. You do low reps because low reps are not only the best way for fast strength gains and specific to max strength, but are also the easiest to recover from meaning more training practice meaning faster strength. How does this not make sense.

2) Again, Ronnie is the biggest guy out there but not the strongest. Not to say that benching over 495 and squatting and deadlifting 800 lbs is weak, but there are many powerlifters half his size who do much more becuase they are more SKILLED. You can be the strongest man in the world just with the muscle you have right now, you just dont have the skill level to do so.

3) You stick with around 90%#RM and as you feel it gets easier, you slowly increase the load. You dont work with 100%#RM because that would burn you out in a hurry, eventhough the first few sets would be okay, you want to train as long as possible without fatiguing.

Tensing muscles harder will give you much greater strength than making them bigger. How do people not get this.

Listen buddy, this method has never been proven to work. A begginner may make some gains from training like this at first and will burn out quickly, but for anyone who has been under a bar for very long, this WILL NOT WORK.

Despite your theory, you CNS will not be able to handle 90% everyday...you will not recover.

This is more of a Powerlifting discussion than a bodybuilding discussion, however, there are very, very few people who can handle the types of weight you are talking about who do not have any appreciable size on their frame, so despite what you are theorizing, its simply not possible for someone to handle more and more weight without the added bodymass to support such weight.

If your theory worked, then why would anyone ever get injured, ever fail on the platform, ever burn out, ever stagnate and not make progress? Your theory DOES NOT HOLD WATER. How has it worked for you? How much drastic improvement have you added to your lifts? I went looking for a training log for you, I was dissappointed that you do not have an active training log because I would love to see you practice these principles and make progress with it, because if you are truely lifting 90% of your 1RM multiple times per day, every day, you will not go anywhere. Seriously, point me to somewhere that this has worked?

I dont have a problem with new ideas or training methods, what I do have a problem with is absurd advice that makes no sense to anyone on this board except for you. Please help me understand.

"A man with a theory is never at the mercy of a man with experience"


Thanks,
IRBS

redskin 344
04-01-09, 4:43 pm
Listen buddy, this method has never been proven to work. A begginner may make some gains from training like this at first and will burn out quickly, but for anyone who has been under a bar for very long, this WILL NOT WORK.

Despite your theory, you CNS will not be able to handle 90% everyday...you will not recover.

This is more of a Powerlifting discussion than a bodybuilding discussion, however, there are very, very few people who can handle the types of weight you are talking about who do not have any appreciable size on their frame, so despite what you are theorizing, its simply not possible for someone to handle more and more weight without the added bodymass to support such weight.

If your theory worked, then why would anyone ever get injured, ever fail on the platform, ever burn out, ever stagnate and not make progress? Your theory DOES NOT HOLD WATER. How has it worked for you? How much drastic improvement have you added to your lifts? I went looking for a training log for you, I was dissappointed that you do not have an active training log because I would love to see you practice these principles and make progress with it, because if you are truely lifting 90% of your 1RM multiple times per day, every day, you will not go anywhere. Seriously, point me to somewhere that this has worked?

I dont have a problem with new ideas or training methods, what I do have a problem with is absurd advice that makes no sense to anyone on this board except for you. Please help me understand.

"A man with a theory is never at the mercy of a man with experience"


Thanks,
IRBS

I would be more than glad to. First of all you can look up the book "the naked warrior" by pavel tsatouline. It shows you what I am talking about strength being a skill. It also shows what success people have gotten from it. One person has gone from 5-10 pullups in one week

And yes, this is a powerlifting discussion because this is how powerlifters and this guy wants to know how to get to 405 as quickly as possible. They do low reps throughout the day everyday without ever fatiguing. It does have to be 90%1RM, it can be 70-80% as well.

You can also go to the dragondoor.com forums and ask them about this.

sanga
04-01-09, 4:47 pm
I'd say it probably took me 2 years to get to 225, 3 or so years to go from 225 to 315 and another 3+ yrs to get to 405 and I've been fucking with 405 for a couple of years now, with a ways to go before I get to 5 pies. It is a long road of 52 chest sessions a year and a couple of good two or so month strength cycles per year in which you make your best gains. Don't make the mistake of thinking it happens overnight. Real, enduring raw strength takes time, patience and consistency.

Peace, G


Too right, solid post.

G Diesel
04-01-09, 4:47 pm
I would be more than glad to. First of all you can look up the book "the naked warrior" by pavel tsatouline. It shows you what I am talking about strength being a skill. It also shows what success people have gotten from it. One person has gone from 5-10 pullups in one week

And yes, this is a powerlifting discussion because this is how powerlifters and this guy wants to know how to get to 405 as quickly as possible. They do low reps throughout the day everyday without ever fatiguing. It does have to be 90%1RM, it can be 70-80% as well.

You can also go to the dragondoor.com forums and ask them about this.

Just for the sake of conversation, because I'm open to debating and applying anything that will make me grow and improve... Have you tried this method yourself and had such dramatic results so as to strongly tout it here? If so, could you elaborate as to your experiences with this style and what kind of gains you made? Thanks bro.

Peace, G

redskin 344
04-01-09, 4:51 pm
Just for the sake of conversation, because I'm open to debating and applying anything that will make me grow and improve... Have you tried this method yourself and had such dramatic results so as to strongly tout it here? If so, could you elaborate as to your experiences with this style and what kind of gains you made? Thanks bro.

Peace, G

Well a while ago, from strict pressing 3 reps of 135 as often as possible, I went to pressing 135 8 times in a week if that helps. That time I didnt even know about this program but I followed the guidelines of it which is to keep practicing lifting heavy.

Now I know what th program is trully about so I am sure on how to do it properly.

G Diesel
04-01-09, 5:07 pm
Well a while ago, from strict pressing 3 reps of 135 as often as possible, I went to pressing 135 8 times in a week if that helps. That time I didnt even know about this program but I followed the guidelines of it which is to keep practicing lifting heavy.

Now I know what th program is trully about so I am sure on how to do it properly.

That doesn't seem to be supported by real world results bro. I'd like to see you apply these theories to your own training and have you track your progress here. In such case, if you were successful, no one would be able to argue.

Most of the biggest benchers I know bench once every 5-10 days and vary the exercises and set and rep schemes in order to maximize recovery and vary stimuli in order to continue progressing.

Peace, G

redskin 344
04-01-09, 5:16 pm
That doesn't seem to be supported by real world results bro. I'd like to see you apply these theories to your own training and have you track your progress here. In such case, if you were successful, no one would be able to argue.

Most of the biggest benchers I know bench once every 5-10 days and vary the exercises and set and rep schemes in order to maximize recovery and vary stimuli in order to continue progressing.

Peace, G

Alright I'll show you some real world stuff. Im a little sore right now but when I get refreshed Im going to train the strict press for a month and will show you my strength gains. If I am successfull in pushing significantly more weight and you are impressed by the results, this will show that strength is trully about technique rather than muscles mass.

No one has to believe me right now.

MightyMouse666
04-01-09, 5:16 pm
I would be more than glad to. First of all you can look up the book "the naked warrior" by pavel tsatouline. It shows you what I am talking about strength being a skill. It also shows what success people have gotten from it. One person has gone from 5-10 pullups in one week

And yes, this is a powerlifting discussion because this is how powerlifters and this guy wants to know how to get to 405 as quickly as possible. They do low reps throughout the day everyday without ever fatiguing. It does have to be 90%1RM, it can be 70-80% as well.

You can also go to the dragondoor.com forums and ask them about this.

Gonna have to agree with IRBS on this one, obviously. I can't say I know any powerlifters who bench 90% of their 1RM "everyday throughout the day". That seems rediculous, no offense. Granted, I'm not a powerlifter. However, I do have a RAW 405 bench, weighing about 170 lbs. It took me years. When making the final push for it, low reps were key. I actually made my most consistent gains benching every TWO weeks. So once every 14 days (I have a power-building split). If I benched everyday, the only place it would get me would be the hospital.

J-Dawg
04-01-09, 5:18 pm
Well a while ago, from strict pressing 3 reps of 135 as often as possible, I went to pressing 135 8 times in a week if that helps. That time I didnt even know about this program but I followed the guidelines of it which is to keep practicing lifting heavy.

Now I know what th program is trully about so I am sure on how to do it properly.

One thing to keep in mind is that you can do more training and more volume as a beginner, because you are not generating that much intensity (this is not a knock, it takes time to learn how to train with high intensity and as you get older you'll know what I mean). When you first start out lifting and you do three sets of bench to failure with 135 pounds. That'll place a certain amount of stress on the body of course.

Moving forward 5 years--you have been training for some time now and you are performing a 315 or 405lb bench press. That is ~3 times the weight as when you started out and a lot more stressful to the body. The thing is, your nervous system and immune system, and ability to recovery haven't changed that much from day one. As you get bigger and stronger and more advanced you are able to generate a lot more intensity and stress, but the ability of your body to recover from it really hasn't changed.

So one set of bench presses with 405 pounds is more stressful than three with 135 pounds. In actuality as you progress and learn to train with higher intensity, you should be doing less work and not more.

JUGGERNAUT
04-01-09, 5:27 pm
Do not bench every day. Now that that's out of the way.... When I was 18 I could get away with anything, grow and get stronger at fast pace, so let's not even go there. The OP will take years to get from his weight now till that 405 period. It's a HUGE leap! NOBODY is going to bench everyday, hit deads, hit squats, do well and not disintegrate their joints to ash. Thumbs up to Westside and past that, that style let's you have longevity in the sport too; being so SMART!

G Diesel
04-01-09, 5:27 pm
Alright I'll show you some real world stuff. Im a little sore right now but when I get refreshed Im going to train the strict press for a month and will show you my strength gains. If I am successfull in pushing significantly more weight and you are impressed by the results, this will show that strength is trully about technique rather than muscles mass.

No one has to believe me right now.

The other thing to pay attention to is the fact that the 135 lb benches you earlier referenced were essentially done by a somewhat untrained novice, to whom the training stimulus is very new and foreign. Everything and anything will make you grow at this stage.

Rules that apply to someone so early in the game do not even come close to applying to seasoned guys with 5, 10 15 or even two years under their belt.

Peace, G

redskin 344
04-01-09, 5:31 pm
The other thing to pay attention to is the fact that the 135 lb benches you earlier referenced were essentially done by a somewhat untrained novice, to whom the training stimulus is very new and foreign. Everything and anything will make you grow at this stage.

Rules that apply to someone so early in the game do not even come close to applying to seasoned guys with 5, 10 15 or even two years under their belt.

Peace, G

it wasnt a bench press, it was a strict press

my left arm is significantly weaker than my right so that created problems, but whatever.

MightyMouse666
04-01-09, 5:37 pm
it wasnt a bench press, it was a strict press

my left arm is significantly weaker than my right so that created problems, but whatever.

G Diesel, where were you on that one?! The fact that the 135 lbs is a STRICT press and not a bench press changes everything.

redskin 344
04-01-09, 5:40 pm
G Diesel, where were you on that one?! The fact that the 135 lbs is a STRICT press and not a bench press changes everything.



a strict press is much harder than a bench press

and I was lifting a while back so it was not the first time I had lifted weights.

The same thing with dumbell rows. I started off doing 100x3 and in a week i was doing 100x8. I was not a beginner.

JUGGERNAUT
04-01-09, 5:52 pm
Alright I'll show you some real world stuff. Im a little sore right now but when I get refreshed Im going to train the strict press for a month and will show you my strength gains. If I am successfull in pushing significantly more weight and you are impressed by the results, this will show that strength is trully about technique rather than muscles mass.

No one has to believe me right now.

**Technique is a "PLUS" to true strength, not more important and not without muscle mass.

Proving you have great gains in benching will not prove this system works at all. At your level and your age, you are a bad example because lifting anything works for you.

The OP can have all the technique in the world and it's not going to even budge that 405.

Same argument....my car has 400 horsepower/"technique"! (So what) At what rpm does it have it and at what torque level throughout the range? That is what matters.

GJN5002
04-01-09, 6:09 pm
I think the russian PL's benched multiple times a week but that was the only thing they did. They would do a 1 rep max then go home and sleep come back in the afternoon 1 rep max in another excercise go home eat and sleep. Plus who knows what sauces they put in the vodka. Essentially unless the OP is a Russian powerlifter with no job or life, dont bench multiple times a week. We have several very strong guys telling him how to bench and one guy that can bench 135. not to pick on him because hes young and he will eventually get his numbers up, what Im saying is, I tend to put my momey on experience not book sabout naked guys. I can ench about 350 before my pec tear that took about 5 years of benching once a week.

Elite
04-01-09, 6:40 pm
If I am successfull in pushing significantly more weight and you are impressed by the results, this will show that strength is trully about technique rather than muscles mass.


Thats not entirely the debate though, is it. Your theory in relation to the info wanted by the OP, would have to be carried over into continuous strength gains, week by week, without burnout or plateauing. How would accessory muscle groups catch up if you were continuously benching this way? How do you fit in accessory muscle groups on this programme and continue there progress?

Even if this somehow worked a treat and your bench went up & up & up, how will the rest of your body catch up and avoid imbalaces in strength, thus resulting in injury?

reaper68
04-01-09, 8:45 pm
Holy shit storm. Ha I didn't think this would start a huge debate. Anyways I guess I should throw out some things. I am just starting to lift again after almost 7 years. Couple of things I should point out. I did power lift in high school and know to set smaller goals I simply want to know if you guys thought it possible to hit 405 in two years. Next one thing that I should say is when I could do over 275 clean and comp style was that I was limited by my right wrist causing me some serious issues (broke it an was in a cast for over 10 weeks). I could rep 265 around 8 times at that point, but if I pushed much over that wait it really started to mess up my lifts with the pain. Well fast forward to last week I decided what the hell an to see what I could do so I did my old warm up route etc and hit a clean 255. I probably could have bullshited a 26*. Anyways I know now my wrist does not bother me at all anymore so thats a good deal, and I have the advantage of being physically larger frame now (not fat) I grew a good amount after HS. Anyways just looking to see if you think its possible in two years nothing more nothing less.

I bet I can hit 275 within the month if I get my form down possibly more

reaper68
04-01-09, 8:48 pm
By the way thanks for all the input. Any suggestions on anything else would be great. I figured blasting the back and tri's would be my best bet for helping myself out.

Firefist
04-01-09, 8:51 pm
By the way thanks for all the input. Any suggestions on anything else would be great. I figured blasting the back and tri's would be my best bet for helping myself out.

dont forget them shoulders!

GJN5002
04-01-09, 9:48 pm
i think the take home message is set smaller goals, have patience and persistance. also dont neglect hitting other body parts just as hard because it all helps bring up your bench.

G Diesel
04-01-09, 11:32 pm
G Diesel, where were you on that one?! The fact that the 135 lbs is a STRICT press and not a bench press changes everything.

My bad, I thought since this was a strength convo as it pertained to the bench, I figured we were talking about a strict barbell bench press, not a strict press or standing barbell military press.

Peace, G

Littlefry
04-01-09, 11:58 pm
Tri's and delts play a huge role in benching

reaper68
04-02-09, 10:42 am
I was thinking along the lines of focusing on those areas a lot more that I ever did in HS. I wish I would have know more about it back then. Anyways I think I will start out making sure all my connective tissues are up to the task. Lighter weight higher reps for a month or two focusing more on getting good form down and what not. Along with a lot of Calisthenics type exercises like pull ups and dips then move on to weighted dips etc.

Also would you guys suggest using chains on the bench I know I have seen the done before and have read some good reports on how it helps your weak spots in the lift. Let me know what you think

MVP
04-02-09, 1:38 pm
DO NOT do this...this is NOT how you bench 405...Benching everyday will not get you anywhere because you will never be able to get anything accomplished. With super low reps you will NOT have faster recovery time unless you are using rediculously low weight. Honestly, this is some of the worst advice I have seen...

My advice is to set small goals. I have a 425 Raw Bench, but I didnt get there by starting at 255 saying I wanted to bench 405. Small goals...300, 315, 350, 365, 385...take small accomplishments and turn them into bigger ones. Hit a number a build off of that.

There are tons of programs out there that will work (5x5, 5/3/1, Westside, Metal Melitia, etc), but bottom line, you will be looking at hard work a dedication to accomplishing your goals.

Good luck,
IRBS

Exactly!

redskin 344
04-02-09, 1:53 pm
**Technique is a "PLUS" to true strength, not more important and not without muscle mass.

Proving you have great gains in benching will not prove this system works at all. At your level and your age, you are a bad example because lifting anything works for you.

The OP can have all the technique in the world and it's not going to even budge that 405.

Same argument....my car has 400 horsepower/"technique"! (So what) At what rpm does it have it and at what torque level throughout the range? That is what matters.

Look...muscle TESNION is what creates strength more than muscle MASS.

Ask George Halbert. He benches over 550 raw@around 200 bw and he says that the BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS WORK ON TENSION AND TECHNIQUE. The harder you tense your muscles, the more strength you will demostrate, period.

JUGGERNAUT
04-02-09, 2:07 pm
Look...muscle TESNION is what creates strength more than muscle MASS.

Ask George Halbert. He benches over 550 raw@around 200 bw and he says that the BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS WORK ON TENSION AND TECHNIQUE. The harder you tense your muscles, the more strength you will demostrate, period.

You are getting too caught up with what to do when you HAVE muscle already. Using the word "period" in this game is just naive.

prowrestler
04-02-09, 2:09 pm
Look...muscle TESNION is what creates strength more than muscle MASS.

Ask George Halbert. He benches over 550 raw@around 200 bw and he says that the BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS WORK ON TENSION AND TECHNIQUE. The harder you tense your muscles, the more strength you will demostrate, period.

u mean if i flex really really hard ill dead 900lbs next monday?

please describe this tension u speak of

fenix237
04-02-09, 2:15 pm
u mean if i flex really really hard ill dead 900lbs next monday?

please describe this tension u speak of

+1...i'm still in the dark regarding what "tensing your muscles" means???

FearDoiteain
04-02-09, 2:22 pm
Don't forget your legs either. If you're doing a powerlifting bench, you should be setting your base up with your legs close in, tight, and solid. Then you drive with everything.

But even if you're just benching bodybuilder style, you still need a strong core and legs to stay stable and generate more power.

Oh and everyone is on about the Shoulders, tri's and back.

FearDoiteain
04-02-09, 2:26 pm
Redskin, you're right that form and technique are a key part of strength.

However, they're not everything. They are simply parts of a much more complicated equation. It takes heavy workload, both on your muscles AND CNS to produce results. Form and technique just help you take advantage of the power your muscles are generating and focus it better.

IRBS
04-02-09, 2:34 pm
Look...muscle TESNION is what creates strength more than muscle MASS.

Ask George Halbert. He benches over 550 raw@around 200 bw and he says that the BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS WORK ON TENSION AND TECHNIQUE. The harder you tense your muscles, the more strength you will demostrate, period.


George Halbert is a great bencher, but I will bet you 485762094564297621409 cans of Aniamlpak that he doesnt bench everyday...LOL. I know that Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell (Where George Halbert Trained) doesnt have his guys training like you have outlined in this thread.

You've read a few articles on the internet and think that they are the truth. Most people disagree with you, in principle, because many of us have been training for years and know for a fact that one's body cannot hold up to this type of training. You're 18 years old, with a 135x8 strict press (when youre not "too sore" to train), and you're trying to give advice to a guy who is asking what it takes to bench 405. Slow down a little bit, get under a bar and do some work. Once you have put some time in under the bar and have actually made some progress, come tell us about it. I think you will find that the things which you think are solid truth now will change a great deal once you have some experience under your belt.

Your enthusiasm is great. Apply it to your training and see what happens.

Thanks,
IRBS

TigerAce01
04-02-09, 2:40 pm
George Halbert is a great bencher, but I will bet you 485762094564297621409 cans of Aniamlpak that he doesnt bench everyday...LOL. I know that Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell (Where George Halbert Trained) doesnt have his guys training like you have outlined in this thread.

You've read a few articles on the internet and think that they are the truth. Most people disagree with you, in principle, because many of us have been training for years and know for a fact that one's body cannot hold up to this type of training. You're 18 years old, with a 135x8 strict press (when youre not "too sore" to train), and you're trying to give advice to a guy who is asking what it takes to bench 405. Slow down a little bit, get under a bar and do some work. Once you have put some time in under the bar and have actually made some progress, come tell us about it. I think you will find that the things which you think are solid truth now will change a great deal once you have some experience under your belt.

Your enthusiasm is great. Apply it to your training and see what happens.

Thanks,
IRBS

IRBS throwing out the truth right there.

Agreed 100%.

-Ace

Beast Genetics
04-02-09, 3:23 pm
HARD WORK, Time, and hard work. If you don't have a knowledgeable team or crew you train with educate yourself on training, techniques, and routines.- Beast

redskin 344
04-02-09, 4:27 pm
George Halbert is a great bencher, but I will bet you 485762094564297621409 cans of Aniamlpak that he doesnt bench everyday...LOL. I know that Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell (Where George Halbert Trained) doesnt have his guys training like you have outlined in this thread.

You've read a few articles on the internet and think that they are the truth. Most people disagree with you, in principle, because many of us have been training for years and know for a fact that one's body cannot hold up to this type of training. You're 18 years old, with a 135x8 strict press (when youre not "too sore" to train), and you're trying to give advice to a guy who is asking what it takes to bench 405. Slow down a little bit, get under a bar and do some work. Once you have put some time in under the bar and have actually made some progress, come tell us about it. I think you will find that the things which you think are solid truth now will change a great deal once you have some experience under your belt.

Your enthusiasm is great. Apply it to your training and see what happens.

Thanks,
IRBS

A few great articles?.. I have a whole book on this theory.
Are you familiar with Pavel Tsatsouline.

I dont necessarily mean everyday, just whenever you feel fresh to do an intense set.

brandonA
04-02-09, 5:22 pm
A few great articles?.. I have a whole book on this theory.
Are you familiar with Pavel Tsatsouline.

I dont necessarily mean everyday, just whenever you feel fresh to do an intense set.

Pavel is a very wise man, kettlebell master, but he is not the only guy that ever wrote a book or an article...You said you were going to bring proof, so bring it...This is your last warning, quite spamming this thread. Feel free to create your own "Tensing" thread and we can all go over there and discuss it. Keep this up and I am going to give you some time off. This is not your thread, so quite trying to take it over.

Here is my source for your possible vacation:

5) Trolls, Spammers & Other Bullshit...
Trolling and spamming are two behaviors that we will not accept. Not only does it take up bandwidth (see Rule #6), but it undermines the community here. Also, this forum doesn't exist so that you can promote your own enterprise, commercial or otherwise, in posts, PMs or in signatures. We see that, we'll shut threads down, delete them, and consider automatic bans. Keep in mind this is not a "public" forum but a private one owned and operated by Animal. Finally, you are allowed one member name. If two are discovered for the same individual, appropriate punishment will be meted out. Offenders will be given an automatic ban.

I like this one too:
2) Leave Your Ego At The Door ...
ILS... ELS... Lifters cheating with more weight than they can rightly handle... We've all seen it out there. Hubris? Insecurity? Who knows why and who fucking cares. It's not our place to judge. Live and let live. In here, we don't need any of that. We don't need the egos or the attitudes... We don't need to hear how you're better than everyone else in your gym, how you're more hardcore. There is always someone bigger and stronger than you... In here, we expect humility and respect... We expect an atmosphere of support and positive thinking. In here, the underdog will have his day. Cuz in the end, the only person that matters, the only one you need to impress, is the one looking back at you in the mirror.

This is your last warning...

-Brandon

redskin 344
04-02-09, 6:18 pm
Pavel is a very wise man, kettlebell master, but he is not the only guy that ever wrote a book or an article...You said you were going to bring proof, so bring it...This is your last warning, quite spamming this thread. Feel free to create your own "Tensing" thread and we can all go over there and discuss it. Keep this up and I am going to give you some time off. This is not your thread, so quite trying to take it over.

Here is my source for your possible vacation:

5) Trolls, Spammers & Other Bullshit...
Trolling and spamming are two behaviors that we will not accept. Not only does it take up bandwidth (see Rule #6), but it undermines the community here. Also, this forum doesn't exist so that you can promote your own enterprise, commercial or otherwise, in posts, PMs or in signatures. We see that, we'll shut threads down, delete them, and consider automatic bans. Keep in mind this is not a "public" forum but a private one owned and operated by Animal. Finally, you are allowed one member name. If two are discovered for the same individual, appropriate punishment will be meted out. Offenders will be given an automatic ban.

I like this one too:
2) Leave Your Ego At The Door ...
ILS... ELS... Lifters cheating with more weight than they can rightly handle... We've all seen it out there. Hubris? Insecurity? Who knows why and who fucking cares. It's not our place to judge. Live and let live. In here, we don't need any of that. We don't need the egos or the attitudes... We don't need to hear how you're better than everyone else in your gym, how you're more hardcore. There is always someone bigger and stronger than you... In here, we expect humility and respect... We expect an atmosphere of support and positive thinking. In here, the underdog will have his day. Cuz in the end, the only person that matters, the only one you need to impress, is the one looking back at you in the mirror.

This is your last warning...

-Brandon

Okay I apologize.

brandonA
04-02-09, 6:24 pm
Okay I apologize.

No worries man, if you want to tell us about your methods, then please do, just not in this thread...

-B

Jonisocool
04-02-09, 8:21 pm
George Halbert is a great bencher, but I will bet you 485762094564297621409 cans of Aniamlpak that he doesnt bench everyday...LOL. I know that Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell (Where George Halbert Trained) doesnt have his guys training like you have outlined in this thread.


If I email George Halbert and ask him to bench everyday next week, when can I expect to see those 485762094564297621409 cans.

Dingo
04-03-09, 1:51 am
I'm on a quest to hit 405. I have just started back lifting and currently can do a clean lift of 255 on bench. What actually surprised me was the fact I am so close to the max I could do in high school (275-85) when I was in a lot better shape and lifted all the time(was physically smaller then however). Anyways I just started back and that's where I am at.

Basically looking for what you guys think would be a good routine to hit this goal in under 2 years. I don't care how hard I have to work I will accomplish this goal. I am looking for only power and don't care about bulking at all, just pure strength.

from my recent experiences i've started using what i call (and i know im not the first to use this) power and volume. This means one week i lift heavy, in the 1-3 rep range on all my lifts/sets. The training is similar to what Yates used, 1-2 warm ups with an intense working set. Typically i take 3-5 minutes between working sets on this week. The next week is use a volume training style, with multiple sets of 8-10 and a few upto 15(similar to what Arnold used) with 30 sec to 1 min between sets.
Its kinda the best of both worlds and i have taken my bench from 265 to 295 in 4 weeks, deads from 335 to 375 and squats from 275 to 315 all for 1-3 rep range.

reaper68
04-03-09, 10:30 am
I put 295 on just to see how it felt and honestly it didn't feel to bad. I'm probably about a month or so away from that. I just don't get how in the hell I can be as close to the weights I could do before its nutts. Maybe it was all a mental block before either way I'm pumped now and will be busting my ass to hit my goals and hope to get to 405 before I die