View Full Version : Calling Us Out?
G Diesel
05-15-09, 10:15 am
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
musclealchemist
05-15-09, 10:41 am
I think you are right G, that sound like a direct attack on Animal/U. I mean the pak as been going strong for over 25 years, so i guess that scares them. All i have to say is that they have a lot of catching up to do if they think they can even come close to the pak.
TigerAce01
05-15-09, 11:14 am
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
The people reading these ads and believing them are the same people that want a quick fix...in this case it is taking the top multivitamin on the market, Pak, and harping upon its only drawback...the amount of pills. The simple Red Herring fallacy...marketing at its best.
-Ace
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
you know you are doing something right when you have a bunch of haters....
NJC_Manhattan
05-15-09, 11:28 am
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
Can I be a giant marketing/finance nerd for a second? Ok great!
That kind of advertising is called negative marketing. Research shows that negative marketing sticks with those who are unfamiliar with the products at hand. I remember in Feb 2006, there were rumors that Muscletech was insolvent (broke). They spend a lot of money on advertising with really drives down their net income. Their financial statement from 2006 had 50m in debt and 10m in assets. Their current ratio (a measure of how liquid/how well they pay off debt) is 0.2! That means they are not liquid and have problems paying off debt. Also with the recent health concerns for their leading fat burner (you know what that is) they will have toxic inventory.
I don't want to go on a rant here, but they are trying to take some of the market share away from universal via negative marketing or they are trying to introduce a new multi-vitamin to offset their losses from the fat burner.
Just my two cents.
GJN5002
05-15-09, 11:34 am
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
theyre just pissed they had to reformulate their entire line a rerelease it
I hate their marketing but it works with uninformed people. The purpose of a vitamin is not to induce massive anabolic responses.
G Diesel
05-15-09, 11:42 am
you know you are doing something right when you have a bunch of haters....
Wise words. More haters the better... Bring em on.
Peace, G
rev8ball
05-15-09, 11:44 am
I would take this as a compliment. It's obvious that in order to market to their mindless drones, they have to go after Number One, something along the lines of "Imitation is the best form of flatery." I mean, any time an opponent tries to knock me, he perceives me as better than he and something to beat, that I'm more than a viable threat. That's how I see this.
InkdMuscle
05-15-09, 11:46 am
Imitation is the biggest form of flattery. They are just trying to capture the market. But its not gonna happen. U/ANIMAL has so many loyal customers then they have sales. =D THEY ARE JUST HATERS!!
G Diesel
05-15-09, 11:46 am
Can I be a giant marketing/finance nerd for a second? Ok great!
That kind of advertising is called negative marketing. Research shows that negative marketing sticks with those who are unfamiliar with the products at hand. I remember in Feb 2006, there were rumors that Muscletech was insolvent (broke). They spend a lot of money on advertising with really drives down their net income. Their financial statement from 2006 had 50m in debt and 10m in assets. Their current ratio (a measure of how liquid/how well they pay off debt) is 0.2! That means they are not liquid and have problems paying off debt. Also with the recent health concerns for their leading fat burner (you know what that is) they will have toxic inventory.
I don't want to go on a rant here, but they are trying to take some of the market share away from universal via negative marketing or they are trying to introduce a new multi-vitamin to offset their losses from the fat burner.
Just my two cents.
So negative marketing as an act of desperation?
I just like it when the playground bully feels a little threatened. Problem is, he tries to make an example of the wrong dude and sometimes it backfires.
Peace, G
AFTazz06
05-15-09, 12:14 pm
Animal has the best multi on the market, every year it gets wins the supps awards over at BB.com so ofcourse haters will rise and try to match it or out win it, but we all know they're fighting a loosing battle.
IronWilson
05-15-09, 12:21 pm
Can I be a giant marketing/finance nerd for a second? Ok great!
That kind of advertising is called negative marketing. Research shows that negative marketing sticks with those who are unfamiliar with the products at hand. I remember in Feb 2006, there were rumors that Muscletech was insolvent (broke). They spend a lot of money on advertising with really drives down their net income. Their financial statement from 2006 had 50m in debt and 10m in assets. Their current ratio (a measure of how liquid/how well they pay off debt) is 0.2! That means they are not liquid and have problems paying off debt. Also with the recent health concerns for their leading fat burner (you know what that is) they will have toxic inventory.
I don't want to go on a rant here, but they are trying to take some of the market share away from universal via negative marketing or they are trying to introduce a new multi-vitamin to offset their losses from the fat burner.
Just my two cents.
This libelous advertising is the most blatant form of desperation. Huscletech is a huge one for mudslinging. It's not just against Universal either, I've seen it against other companies and products too. Whatever product is doing well, they go after.
If you look at any forum, people do not respect Muscletech in the least. They have become a joke of sorts. The only way people use their products is if they are complete newbies or are given free products for transformation contests.
Aggression
05-15-09, 12:22 pm
With MT coming out with their 'multi', they figured ''what better way to hype up our product than to go after the multi giant, AnimalPak?"
G, does their Vitakic claim to add 50lbs to your bench in 3 days? (Bc we all know a multivitamin is capable of such things)
andrewT
05-15-09, 12:31 pm
I had a teacher this year in Kine
he said he worked for a supp company and that they do greatttt things with their products. This guy is a world renowned researcher who worked with armies and various secret agencies over the world for fitness, etc
he said he highly recommends muscletech and that is where he worked. As soon as he said that I broke out laughing in lecture and everyone looked at me puzzled.
A small group of animals we are I tell ya!
TigerAce01
05-15-09, 12:34 pm
I had a teacher this year in Kine
he said he worked for a supp company and that they do greatttt things with their products. This guy is a world renowned researcher who worked with armies and various secret agencies over the world for fitness, etc
he said he highly recommends muscletech and that is where he worked. As soon as he said that I broke out laughing in lecture and everyone looked at me puzzled.
A small group of animals we are I tell ya!
Let's not turn this into a hate thread now.
-Ace
andrewT
05-15-09, 12:36 pm
Let's not turn this into a hate thread now.
-Ace
I am not tryin to Ace
Just sayin it was funny for me at least!
But hey it does prove they do research on their stuff (thats what he was telling us)
TigerAce01
05-15-09, 12:39 pm
I am not tryin to Ace
Just sayin it was funny for me at least!
But hey it does prove they do research on their stuff (thats what he was telling us)
It's all good, I just like feeling important. haha
I would hope they research.
-Ace
If nothing else, I think it show's where others in the industry perceive UN/Animal to be on the food chain. Basically, you don't see them calling out other bs shakes and formulas right?
Shamus11B
05-15-09, 1:23 pm
This is funny, but the bottom line is how can a multi vitamin like the old school take one a days be fully absorbed into your system? When they pack all these vitamins and aminos into 1 or lets say 3 pills a day the compression of these pills can not be fully broken down by your body. Ask anyone who cleans out portable bathrooms, they are full of vitamins lol. That was a main reason why I went went Animal, no bullshit, no gimmicks, just results. Besides lets them imitate and slander Animal all that does is give an outstanding company free advertising.
G Diesel
05-15-09, 1:42 pm
If nothing else, I think it show's where others in the industry perceive UN/Animal to be on the food chain. Basically, you don't see them calling out other bs shakes and formulas right?
Besides lets them imitate and slander Animal all that does is give an outstanding company free advertising.
Sharp posts... I think you guys are onto something.
Peace, G
lets not forget, optimum nutrition came after universal last year when they were advertising their multi. It had a cartoonish figure with two hands full of pills and a guy with only a few and it said somethign to the effect of the right way to take a vitamin vs the wrong.
Wasteland
05-15-09, 2:04 pm
Can I be a giant marketing/finance nerd for a second? Ok great!
That kind of advertising is called negative marketing. Research shows that negative marketing sticks with those who are unfamiliar with the products at hand. I remember in Feb 2006, there were rumors that Muscletech was insolvent (broke). They spend a lot of money on advertising with really drives down their net income. Their financial statement from 2006 had 50m in debt and 10m in assets. Their current ratio (a measure of how liquid/how well they pay off debt) is 0.2! That means they are not liquid and have problems paying off debt. Also with the recent health concerns for their leading fat burner (you know what that is) they will have toxic inventory.
I don't want to go on a rant here, but they are trying to take some of the market share away from universal via negative marketing or they are trying to introduce a new multi-vitamin to offset their losses from the fat burner.
Just my two cents.
Is negativity in marketing like negativity in politics? If so, despite the fact that people criticize negative campaigns, studies show they do work.
Still, it is interesting that the ad seems to be going after Animal Pak. What does this say? Is this David vs. Goliath?
I think some of the people who are new to lifting may get fooled by all the before and after photoshopped pictures and the ten plus years of research from University of Florida. It's funny how they use to come out with a new product every month that's based on years and years of research. They may able to make a quick buck by calling out Universal, but sooner or later people are gonna realize the number of pills don't matter, what matters is value, quality, and most importantly, results.
Wasteland
05-15-09, 2:10 pm
lets not forget, optimum nutrition came after universal last year when they were advertising their multi. It had a cartoonish figure with two hands full of pills and a guy with only a few and it said somethign to the effect of the right way to take a vitamin vs the wrong.
I don't recall seeing that ad. Can you post it?
Iceiktitan
05-15-09, 2:19 pm
Muscletech seems to be taking a direct shot at Universal/Animal. They do seem scared in my opinion and they have ever right to be. They can hype all their products all they want but in the end proven quality results will prevail over this negative advertising mumbojumbo.
Those that look at others with envy will always try a direct assault at the character/quality of the ones on top.
Shamus11B
05-15-09, 2:28 pm
Honestly Muscletech may be on top of the Market, but this is because of their advertising only. When this company feels the need or rather feels threatened by another company this means that they do not believe in their own products. Granted all companies look for a competitive edge in this marketplace. But as was previously posted this is a backwards compliment and anyone that knows this industry will plainly see that this is an attack on Universal/Animal.
Big Wides
05-15-09, 2:40 pm
It's typical fuckery by a company who knows their product is infeior and is under a microscope since for the past couple of years Pak has been #1. It goes back to G's example of the schoolyard bully, they only act out this way to mask their own insecurities. Let them say what they want, but in the end it all comes down to reputation not only in the market but lets face it the proof is there. And people know of Pak by word of mouth and the results it has.
Let them continue on with this, Pak will still reign in the way it has for years, by those who use it and the results it has produced
Aggression
05-15-09, 2:45 pm
It's typical fuckery by a company who knows their product is infeior and is under a microscope since for the past couple of years Pak has been #1. It goes back to G's example of the schoolyard bully, they only act out this way to mask their own insecurities. Let them say what they want, but in the end it all comes down to reputation not only in the market but lets face it the proof is there. And people know of Pak by word of mouth and the results it has.
Let them continue on with this, Pak will still reign in the way it has for years, by those who use it and the results it has produced
Amen, Big Wides, Amen.
GORILLA WARRIOR
05-15-09, 2:54 pm
The people reading these ads and believing them are the same people that want a quick fix...in this case it is taking the top multivitamin on the market, Pak, and harping upon its only drawback...the amount of pills. The simple Red Herring fallacy...marketing at its best.
-Ace
Amen to that. Everyone wants the quick fix. The ones who put in the work and effort and realize nothing comes without sacrifice are the real Animals
G Diesel
05-15-09, 3:57 pm
Amen to that. Everyone wants the quick fix. The ones who put in the work and effort and realize nothing comes without sacrifice are the real Animals
Preach GW... Preach.
Peace, G
RighteousDude
05-15-09, 4:08 pm
Negative publicity is better than no publicity at all.
Universal did their due diligence and found the perfect combination capsules/pills to be optimum is 11. Just open pak, put contents in mouth, swig some water and swallow.
What's the big deal?
Peace.
Wasteland
05-15-09, 4:34 pm
What's the big deal?
Evidently Animal Pak. And that has lead to the creation of this thread.
I don't recall seeing that ad. Can you post it?
I've been trying to find it online but I cant. I'll have to dig out my old MD's.
PAK needs some of that thurr 'Nano-Diffuse Technology', it's the future ya' Know...
futurefreak101
05-15-09, 4:52 pm
muscle tech can only make a living off noobs...with their outrages claims..no serious bodybuilder would buy there products...not to mention there prices are outrages as well...i know for sure i would never use there products..and hydroxycut had a recall....there just a glitz and glam company...they serve no threat to universal/animal....trust me
Honestly Muscletech may be on top of the Market, but this is because of their advertising only. When this company feels the need or rather feels threatened by another company this means that they do not believe in their own products. Granted all companies look for a competitive edge in this marketplace. But as was previously posted this is a backwards compliment and anyone that knows this industry will plainly see that this is an attack on Universal/Animal.
Actually this is bad business practices from a marketing standpoint. If you are an advertising company and you are on top, you DO NOT want to compare yourself to anybody. This gives the other company attention and will make you lose some money.
If you are on top, you keep yourself as the best. Look at Bud Light... You NEVER See them comparing themselves to anybody and they have the best sales ever. Anheiser is amazing in a business sense. Another example is Verizon...
Point is, Muscletech either feels threatened or inferior in the market. They are trying to close the gap between Animal (I have not seen either of the market shares from these companies). That is, speaking from a theory idea.
calcaneous
05-15-09, 9:18 pm
opitmum nutrition did the same thing a while ago.
they had a guy choking down tons of pills with a big "no" sign next to it.
who cares bros. advertising is advertising. People are going to buy whichever product they like better. You cant be mad at someone because they want to honda and you think toyota are better.
Ya know, myself and this other "kid" in the gym could be an ad for UN vs The rest of the Supp Industry (especially MT)
every week he comes in talkin about some new supp he's on or he head about or he wants to get, flip floppin from supp to supp meanwhile i keep toiling away day after day takin the same ol shit (Pak, nitro, eaa nitro....) All he every has to say to me is "you must be doin somethin right" I know besides supps there is more too it, but I feel his tactics are true to what most of society wants, "the quick fix, the easy answer, the magic pill", and i'm just puttin in my own hard work, blood sweat and tears. The funny thing about this "kid" is that of all the supps he bounces around on and dotes on, I atleast got him hooked into PAK, the one staple he claims to keep constant. I know when it comes to the mags and the ads, i flip past the 10page super ads like a bad 30 minute info-mercial.
As long as Universal is a rock solid, blue collar, in the trenches company I'll keep preachin the good word in my church of iron.
Besides, isn't the only bad press, NO PRESS?
Appollonian
05-15-09, 9:57 pm
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
I am becoming disheartened by the most advertising in the magazines these days (with the exception of Universal/Animal ads). Back on topic though, they are just trying to steal some sales away from a proven leader with dirty tactics.
widdlewade44
05-15-09, 9:57 pm
Reminds me of Arnold's words from Pumping Iron, "Arnold, the Lion on top of the hill isn't as hungry as the lions climbing the hill." Arnold's response? "Yeah, but when he wants the food, it's there."
Not much different here, the Pak and Animal have been doing it, and doing it well, for over 25 years. The company in question hasn't displayed that kind of longevity. The Pak reigns supreme for a reason.
Kevin
widdlewade44
Nick101
05-15-09, 10:20 pm
this is honestly hilarious. any one who has been around this game for any period of time knows muscletech is all advertising. if kids in highschool couldnt buy supps theyd be out of business. the ONLY ads i stop to read in a mag is animal, now i take animal products and believe me i love them, but thats not why i read the ads. animal ads give u a small insight into this life, into this game. they usually have a deeper meaning than just take this product and gain 20 pounds or some stupid cartoon drawings of blood vessels swelling up like crazy
franklinX
05-16-09, 12:37 am
couldn't have said it better Nick101.
I love all the things you can gain from an animal ad. as dumb as it may sound its inspirational.. always look at one when i am having a rough day motivationaly and it picks me up and helps me go to the gym and get after it or take down another monster of a meal
It makes me sick seeing their advertising. The top bodybuilders in the sport on are on their ads and the rediculous claims are irresponsible. I wish I could catch Jay or Dexter sneaking in a pak LOL. I mean seriously, I wonder if they would still use their products if they weren't sponsored by them and got them for free. I just looked up this multi. It's 5 pills a day and more expensive at that. But then again it will increase your results by 667% so maybe it's worth it. Ok done being a smart ass sorry.
and by the way... vitakic is rubbish...don't even came close to the pak
naturalguy
05-16-09, 8:19 am
It makes me sick seeing their advertising. The top bodybuilders in the sport on are on their ads and the rediculous claims are irresponsible. I wish I could catch Jay or Dexter sneaking in a pak LOL. I mean seriously, I wonder if they would still use their products if they weren't sponsored by them and got them for free. I just looked up this multi. It's 5 pills a day and more expensive at that. But then again it will increase your results by 667% so maybe it's worth it. Ok done being a smart ass sorry.
I am not saying any names but I know several pro bodybuilders that work for other companies that use Animal Pak.
I am not saying any names but I know several pro bodybuilders that work for other companies that use Animal Pak.
And we return to this nugget
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/18/l_a3bff170c04f46e7a445d4fd67589c85.jpg
Whats in the box???
I've never understood the problem people have with the '11 tab' issue & the size of them. It's all in the head. When you eat say a chicken breast, you chew a mouthfull and most likely still swallow a piece 4 times the size of Paks largest tab.
Also, im sceptical of the benefits of including creatine, glutamine, beta alanine, 57 extracts and 18 amino's into a 2.8g blend. I mean thats not even a sufficient dose of just creatine, glutamine and B.A.
Im just thankfull that Universal stick to the basics and keep it real, hold their values and let the real world experiences and customer satisfaction do the talking. Im so glad i never had to go through the fluff when i first started supplements, as i was introduced to Universal straight away.
Cellerator65
05-16-09, 9:51 am
Like G or Machine stated in an article/diary.... there are those that tear others down to build themselves up, then there are those that just build.
NJC_Manhattan
05-16-09, 10:10 am
It makes me sick seeing their advertising. The top bodybuilders in the sport on are on their ads and the rediculous claims are irresponsible. I wish I could catch Jay or Dexter sneaking in a pak LOL. I mean seriously, I wonder if they would still use their products if they weren't sponsored by them and got them for free. I just looked up this multi. It's 5 pills a day and more expensive at that. But then again it will increase your results by 667% so maybe it's worth it. Ok done being a smart ass sorry.
The thing that concerns me is, is that there may be people just starting out with serious weightlifting and supplements, and looking for information on the best supplements to take. When you shove 'Univ. research' down people's throats, show 'massive gains/cuts' in 3 months, etc. It can be overwhelming/convincing to someone who is uninformed. This is incredibly dangerous! People should know what they put into their bodies, supplements--as we know--aren't regulated by the FDA, meaning you could seriously be harming your body with some of these supps. I'm not bashing MT or insinuating that Universal would do this, but we have all seen commercials of the 'before' and 'after', never of the 'in between'. My main thing is I just want people to be safe and in good health.
Besides we all know there is no 'after', you consistently look to improve yourself and others around you.
ever since their fat burner got recalled all the GNC's in my area have a 50% off deal on all of their MT products.
I just walk by, and shake my head. The rare times I do go into GNC, I hear some random counter guy, totally out of shape selling all kinds of pills and bullshit to these super skinny guys, and they keep asking as they leave "so I take this pill then, and this pill later?"
I always want to speak up and say man wtf are you doing! but that is not my place...I guess those of us who have found trust in Universal are lucky!
IronWilson
05-16-09, 3:50 pm
The best ad I've ever seen was one for Gakic. There was a little box in the corner with Jay Cutler and a set of twin girls. It says something along the lines of: "How to get girls."
1. Be confident with a touch of cockiness
2. NEVER tell her shes beautiful.
3. Show of your rock hard muscles with Gakic.
Honestly, it is insulting that we are their target marketing audience. It was good for a laugh though.
LittleMan55
05-16-09, 4:08 pm
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
I think that Vitakic came first then IntraVol, which ever it was there is one thing clear. MT is taking aim at every other supplement company in an attempt to snuff them out. I know they have filed suit on several of the ingredients they had "patents" on. When in reality these were giant propietary blends. So anything that could be in there is fair game if anyone else uses them. Larger companies like the U and BSN (I know I broke the rules by mentioning it, but there is a rhym and reason bear with me please), are safe because they have enough funds that MT is not willing to go after them. However, start up companies can be snuffed out easily. Seems pretty smart on MT's part, they can run negative advertisements, snuff people out, and corner all the new comers to the sport with claims of amazing results. It is a money ploy for them and sad to say a pretty damn good one.
Now why did I bring up BSN. Our great company is not the only one who MT is throwing its weight at. Let me put some observations of mine out for you on a few of their newest products, mainly Vitakic and Intravol.
First, Vitakick... They attack Pak in their adds. Yet, they package it in a yellow box and container! Coincidence? Hell no. They realize that Pak has been the vitamin king since '83 and not much can and will be done about it. So they immitate (the greates form of flattery) and slander a product that means more to most of us than just some other fucking supplement. Pak represents a bond and a brotherhood that leads most to the FORVM, where mutual respect for all is shown.
Now the other glaring obvious product attack on a competitor is Intravol. I find it on that there are a plethora of intra work out products on the market, including our own great one Intra-Aid. However, MT is not attacking ours. They went after Volumaize by BSN. Note that Intra-Vol has a red lable. All of BSN's products are in RED. When first launched both came with a company labled shaker.
The bottom line is... MT realizes that most of the consumer market has had enough of the smoke, mirrors, and lies. We all seek products that work and aren't hyped by bull shit! That is why MT is targeting people like they are. To them the $ is everything! This means that they will stop at nothing (immitating, slandering, and making out rageous claims) to corner a market that is unaware and can be blind sided. All so they can keep raking in the cash!
Sorry for the rule bending and mentioning another companies product. It was vital to prove a point of where this is headed in my opinion.
GSant434
05-16-09, 4:34 pm
I think that Vitakic came first then IntraVol, which ever it was there is one thing clear. MT is taking aim at every other supplement company in an attempt to snuff them out. I know they have filed suit on several of the ingredients they had "patents" on. When in reality these were giant propietary blends. So anything that could be in there is fair game if anyone else uses them. Larger companies like the U and BSN (I know I broke the rules by mentioning it, but there is a rhym and reason bear with me please), are safe because they have enough funds that MT is not willing to go after them. However, start up companies can be snuffed out easily. Seems pretty smart on MT's part, they can run negative advertisements, snuff people out, and corner all the new comers to the sport with claims of amazing results. It is a money ploy for them and sad to say a pretty damn good one.
Now why did I bring up BSN. Our great company is not the only one who MT is throwing its weight at. Let me put some observations of mine out for you on a few of their newest products, mainly Vitakic and Intravol.
First, Vitakick... They attack Pak in their adds. Yet, they package it in a yellow box and container! Coincidence? Hell no. They realize that Pak has been the vitamin king since '83 and not much can and will be done about it. So they immitate (the greates form of flattery) and slander a product that means more to most of us than just some other fucking supplement. Pak represents a bond and a brotherhood that leads most to the FORVM, where mutual respect for all is shown.
Now the other glaring obvious product attack on a competitor is Intravol. I find it on that there are a plethora of intra work out products on the market, including our own great one Intra-Aid. However, MT is not attacking ours. They went after Volumaize by BSN. Note that Intra-Vol has a red lable. All of BSN's products are in RED. When first launched both came with a company labled shaker.
The bottom line is... MT realizes that most of the consumer market has had enough of the smoke, mirrors, and lies. We all seek products that work and aren't hyped by bull shit! That is why MT is targeting people like they are. To them the $ is everything! This means that they will stop at nothing (immitating, slandering, and making out rageous claims) to corner a market that is unaware and can be blind sided. All so they can keep raking in the cash!
Sorry for the rule bending and mentioning another companies product. It was vital to prove a point of where this is headed in my opinion.
Great post bro. And how bout 1 more to add some fuel to that fire your building. Anyone else think it's funny that MT just came out with a natural Testosterone amplifier that is cycled with 21 days on 7 off? Hmm, wonder where they heck they could have gotten that idea from. Imitation, the greatest form of flattery? I think not.
LittleMan55
05-16-09, 5:01 pm
Great post bro. And how bout 1 more to add some fuel to that fire your building. Anyone else think it's funny that MT just came out with a natural Testosterone amplifier that is cycled with 21 days on 7 off? Hmm, wonder where they heck they could have gotten that idea from. Imitation, the greatest form of flattery? I think not.
I forgot that one. Good add on!
Wasteland
05-18-09, 11:57 am
I am not saying any names but I know several pro bodybuilders that work for other companies that use Animal Pak.
Do tell, lol.
jeff00z28
05-18-09, 10:53 pm
they recalled hodyroxycut lol. make an ad about that
prowrestler
05-19-09, 12:06 am
here, straight from the mouth of a biochemist, animalpak is better. i work for a supplement shop and our boss is a top biochemist and flat out said pak is superior to vitakic.
be happy
i dont see it as a shot, i see it as a last sad clawing attempt before death.
after all is done, i dont see anyone switching over to vitakic from the pak, ud be surprised at how many ppl see threw MT's bs. i see it at work every day
Everyone is after Animal Pak, except for a couple other companies that are also more about their product, rather than ads.
I've seen plenty of comparison ads. I think just a while back I saw an ad in MD, which was for a fat burner, that had all of their competitors' containers demolished.
Many people have already said this, but when you're the best, there are going to be many who will try to bring you down. There are only a few who will actually strive to be better than you.
DanTheMan
05-19-09, 12:28 pm
simple marketing competition. no biggy.
i personally like taking all 11 pills at once : )
Wasteland
05-19-09, 12:41 pm
simple marketing competition. no biggy.
i personally like taking all 11 pills at once : )
I agree, I like taking the 11 pills. It's kind of like a little ritual for me after eating breakfast. In the rare instances that I skip it, I feel like my day is missing something. Anyone know what I mean?
Universal Rep
05-19-09, 2:13 pm
I agree, I like taking the 11 pills. It's kind of like a little ritual for me after eating breakfast. In the rare instances that I skip it, I feel like my day is missing something. Anyone know what I mean?
Feel the same way, W. Some reason, the day ain't complete without the Pak...
let em hate.... it shows what we are doing, is working.
Mr. Dead
05-19-09, 3:07 pm
Let's see here... They've copied a lot of the Animal and Universal products... Including the new one that is supposed to be like Animal Nitro... They've even gone so far as to copy some of the color schemes... And, are now taking pot-shots... Sounds like desperation, to me...
Wasteland
05-19-09, 3:33 pm
Do their ads have any similarities?
DanTheMan
05-19-09, 3:51 pm
i know exactly what you mean... if you don't get 'em in at the right time somethings a lil off in your day
naturalguy
05-19-09, 4:49 pm
Do their ads have any similarities?
Not even close, the Animal ads don't even talk about products really where the other ads make all sorts of claims with pics of muscle biopsies and charts and graphs.
The Animal ads are all about motivation, inspiration and the psychology of bodybuilding.
1. After asking some competent and trustworthy people in local BB community about positive effect of MT supps, didn't receive any positive answer. So decided not to spend money on that, specially taking into account Hydroxycut. The symptoms of it's action are the same as of clenbuterol, if to trust to local tests - they said that it's in the mix.
2. This kind of advertising looks like mouse which is trying to bite an elephant - just funny and not harmful at all. The way of imitation (like Super Multi Pak from ON) looks better than that at least.
3. Yes, some young/uninformed individuals will be caught up on the hook of marketing - so be it.
Sometimes, when you are trying to educate some misinformed, incite and save them, they are not even grateful - they are paying back with the currency of disrespect and treachery.
So better leave them - they choose themselves the destiny, that they have deserved.
That's how the Evolution and Natural Selection go.
Each promoter will find his consumer, each predator will find a victim.
As well as the truth will find it's way and will touch all the righteous individuals.
If someone decides to pirate - that is his choice and his price he would pay at the end of the day.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's..."(c)
P.S. I was trying to educate as much people as I can. But only 2 of them are on Animalpak now.
Thinking about the reasons, why, I come to an understanding that for our spinning orb it's right. All the rest may take what they want.
Pizzalamp
05-19-09, 11:17 pm
Im gonna focus on bettering myself instead of worrying about what some ad says
Wasteland
05-20-09, 9:39 am
Not even close, the Animal ads don't even talk about products really where the other ads make all sorts of claims with pics of muscle biopsies and charts and graphs.
The Animal ads are all about motivation, inspiration and the psychology of bodybuilding.
Seems like after the Animal ads, many companies went black and white. Coincidence? I also read in some posts here that at the Arnold, other companies were using a cage concept?
Seems like after the Animal ads, many companies went black and white. Coincidence? I also read in some posts here that at the Arnold, other companies were using a cage concept?
the cage concept was ALL over the arnold this year, the people copying our cage, was a little sad.. the "cage" they were using was about 6 ft high fencing.... real cheap fence too.
Wasteland
05-20-09, 9:56 am
This is not the supplement industry, but what about this?
http://www.pearlizumi.com/product.php?mode=view&product_id=1208851
This is not the supplement industry, but what about this?
http://www.pearlizumi.com/product.php?mode=view&product_id=1208851
HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hilarious. same font and everything... wow.
Wasteland
05-20-09, 10:06 am
HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hilarious. same font and everything... wow.
You should see their ads. They have a "hardcore" attitude.
arsilva
05-20-09, 11:54 pm
the cage concept was ALL over the arnold this year, the people copying our cage, was a little sad.. the "cage" they were using was about 6 ft high fencing.... real cheap fence too.
SO money when Vinny called 'em out for it being a rented fence lmao
They are straight and to the point. Animal has an edgier feel talking about the lifestyle choices made by many to get where they are and trying to identify with a blue collar customer base. I get it, most anyone who busts their ass for a living gets it.
The comp, is flashy, and makes people think its a quick fix, and appeals to most of mainstream "i gotta have it now" American culture.
In the quarter mile the comp may get ya there a little faster, but in the long haul the 8 cylinder big block will come out on top.
Young&Hungry
05-21-09, 6:48 pm
Im gonna focus on bettering myself instead of worrying about what some ad says
Don't know why he's the only one that's said this.
Flash419
05-21-09, 11:32 pm
Animal has the best multi on the market, every year it gets wins the supps awards over at BB.com so ofcourse haters will rise and try to match it or out win it, but we all know they're fighting a loosing battle.
Agreed... Animal has had the lock on the vitamin market for so long, everyone else has just seemed to give up. I guess they felt they had to try.. but I'm personally waiting for the HARDCORE version. LOL.. Ever notice how all of their products get a HARDCORE label with less color and bolder printing after everyone has tried it and moved on to something else that works? It's a JOKE!
Everyonedoes
05-22-09, 1:17 pm
^they always use hardcore this and add akic to everything.
G Diesel
05-22-09, 1:28 pm
Im gonna focus on bettering myself instead of worrying about what some ad says
Haha... We talk about supplements here. This is related to us in a strange and unique way. I like to observe how other people/companies/nations/societies do things, sometimes often as a reminder of what I never want to be.
That is the same trite phrase I generally post when I point out where people are sweating or hating on those more advanced than them... Which is way typical on the internet in general, though around here we tend to be somewhat above that all.
I appreciate the keen insight though. I guess the point I was trying to make was lost on some of my brethren. Could be my fault. Who knows?
Peace, G
Wasteland
05-22-09, 1:40 pm
Haha... We talk about supplements here. This is related to us in a strange and unique way. I like to observe how other people/companies/nations/societies do things, sometimes often as a reminder of what I never want to be.
That is the same trite phrase I generally post when I point out where people are sweating or hating on those more advanced than them... Which is way typical on the internet in general, though around here we tend to be somewhat above that all.
I appreciate the keen insight though. I guess the point I was trying to make was lost on some of my brethren. Could be my fault. Who knows?
Peace, G
I don't think you're being obtuse. I think you're pointing to the irony that exists when two very different companies with two very different marketing approaches come together within the same category, multivitamins. Right?
G Diesel
05-22-09, 1:50 pm
I don't think you're being obtuse. I think you're pointing to the irony that exists when two very different companies with two very different marketing approaches come together within the same category, multivitamins. Right?
I mean, I'll admit it was a bit of a terrestrial observation. I'll also admit that it chapped my ass when I saw somebody call us out and I probably have something of a shit list of people and companies that I feel don't keep it real, so maybe I reacted too strongly. But there is room for a little bit of inane, mundane shit talk on here, no?
I try to bring it with the gravitas on the philosophical tip, but every word doesn't have to be Aristotelian does it? Damn.
Peace, G
the cage concept was ALL over the arnold this year, the people copying our cage, was a little sad.. the "cage" they were using was about 6 ft high fencing.... real cheap fence too.
I noticed this too...And the "other companies" ads being in black and white.
Walking into the Arnold for the first time this past year was batshit. Seeing the cage was even more insane. You can't, no matter how hard you try to, replicate and copy the ANIMAL cage.
There were times when I was wandering around the expo, and I could clearly hear Vinny or Juggs' DJing over the Expo's background music or the other booths music.
And remember, copying something is the most sincerest form of a compliment to the origional.
....and I like my 11 pills in the morning. Wouldn't feel right taking just one, even though they all go down in one gulp.
Wasteland
05-22-09, 2:07 pm
Maybe the larger issue that this thread is dealing with is that each of us needs to march to the beat of our own drummer. All too often in business and in life, people will want to imitate leaders or what they think is popular. This is group think. If Company A does something that's successful, then Companies B and C will attempt to follow. To be truly successful, you have to play to your individual strengths (what makes you unique) and be who are you, not be who you want others to think you are. This about right?
Maybe the larger issue that this thread is dealing with is that each of us needs to march to the beat of our own drummer. All too often in business and in life, people will want to imitate leaders or what they think is popular. This is group think. If Company A does something that's successful, then Companies B and C will attempt to follow. To be truly successful, you have to play to your individual strengths (what makes you unique) and be who are you, not be who you want others to think you are. This about right?
From the article "Play your own game" by Ox:
I remember watching an interview prior to the 1995 Mr. Olympia in which Dorian Yates was discussing his feelings going into the show. What he said really stood out in my mind: “Me, myself, I’m not playing anyone else’s game. I’m just playing my game. This year, I’m not necessarily coming in any bigger but I feel I’m coming in a lot better; better shape, with better definition, better symmetry, and more finish. So all these guys are playing my old game. I’m playing the new game.”
I like this quotation a lot. Let others to play whatever they want, cuz you know, who was mr.O next 3 times. So it doesn't really matter, what they play.
It's about what you play.
I try to bring it with the gravitas on the philosophical tip, but every word doesn't have to be Aristotelian does it? Damn.
One word... yes...
In all seriousness, G you are one of the most "real" people I have ever talked with (I guess it's still considered talk if it's on an online forum, correct?). Your philosophical points are always thought provoking. For that I am thrilled to see your viewpoint on ANY subject. Always welcomed.
Enforcer
05-24-09, 11:38 pm
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
Like I always say bro, "Feel free to hate on me" and in this case I mean the whole Animal line. Fuck Muscletech, let them keep having their high priced ads with assholes in lab coats and we'll keep shelling out products that stand the test of time and actually produce the results they say they do.
mritter3
05-25-09, 10:43 am
you know you are doing something right when you have a bunch of haters....
def. right on that one, people will always find a reason to hate numero uno
Flash419
05-25-09, 9:31 pm
Like I always say bro, "Feel free to hate on me" and in this case I mean the whole Animal line. Fuck Muscletech, let them keep having their high priced ads with assholes in lab coats and we'll keep shelling out products that stand the test of time and actually produce the results they say they do.
Animal Pak.. 25 years... Best Vitamins on Market... ENOUGH SAID!
How many companies from 25 years ago are still around?
Universal Rep
06-01-12, 4:42 pm
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
Mr. Dead
06-01-12, 5:10 pm
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
Yep...
C.Coronato
06-01-12, 5:13 pm
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
Just saw another new one today.
Seath308
06-02-12, 7:15 am
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
Yeah What is up with This Bull Shit.... Optimum Nutrition Doesn't seem to have any shame.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/optimum/opti-performance-pack.html
Yeah What is up with This Bull Shit.... Optimum Nutrition Doesn't seem to have any shame.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/optimum/opti-performance-pack.html
Just says it all.
But I still can't see other companies doing their versions of an ABC
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
Yeah, they all fail and fall short. A year or 2 ago MuscleTech tried making training packs for a few products in their line, and they already stopped making em. Pretty epic fail when you launch a product line and it doesnt make the year.
Noob Saibot
06-02-12, 9:56 am
Yeah What is up with This Bull Shit.... Optimum Nutrition Doesn't seem to have any shame.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/optimum/opti-performance-pack.html
I know this may not go over well with some guys but do you really think this looks that bad? It's profile is good, a few different things from pak are in there. Let's face it, all supplement companies take from each other a little bit, what seems to work, what ingredients, or even the style tub it comes in. I think its good to have other companies pushing to try to out do who's on top. Keep the competition and everyone has to constantly improve.
I know this may not go over well with some guys but do you really think this looks that bad? It's profile is good, a few different things from pak are in there. Let's face it, all supplement companies take from each other a little bit, what seems to work, what ingredients, or even the style tub it comes in. I think its good to have other companies pushing to try to out do who's on top. Keep the competition and everyone has to constantly improve.
I think the profile looks great and like the 1 pack nutrition info. Per 2 pak label on Animal is misleading to some people but I know they won't change it. That said 38 bucks for 30 days, no thanks for a multi. There's another pack that my supplement store is slinging. Told me to compare the labels and I bit, but couldn't wait till I got through the tub and back to the Pak. Dont' know what it is...
Appollonian
06-02-12, 5:08 pm
Yeah What is up with This Bull Shit.... Optimum Nutrition Doesn't seem to have any shame.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/optimum/opti-performance-pack.html
My favorite part is that Optimum Nutritipn used to have ads making fun of vitamins where you had to take a handful at a time... I still have some Flex magazines from 5-6 years ago with those ads! See if I can find one...
A lot more "pack" type products now in the industry than ever before...
The problem with multivitamins is that you don't necessarily see the benefits of them when you take them, so you'll always get other companies trying to get their foot in the door with different promises and claims, or others just trying to rip off a stellar product with their own spin.
As Sprint mentioned though, how many of these give as much back as Universal/ Animal? How many can you get straight answers from their athletes on a forum? How many can you train with their athletes during overseas shows? Bringing the formidable Cage to an expo?
Guys, I saw first hand the preference of Animal/Universal among the punters a couple weeks ago at Bodypower. I have never seen so many bullshit taglines and flashy bullshit that is not welcome in the bodybuilding world in my eyes. But the Animal stand was simple, hardcore, no flashy bullshit with empty promises. Just old school and real hardcore, and this was without a doubt the most busy stall of the whole place. People were flocking to ask Ox, House, and G Diesel questions, yes that's right, the pros were actually WORKING the stall and getting in direct contact with the fans and communicating with them. Every other stall was some fat salesman telling you how much muscle you can add in a couple weeks with their new test booster or some shit, and you could get a quick picture with a pro. But Animal, just inherently being how it was, was the most popular stall by far. This goes to show that many can attempt to push down or imitate Animal, but nothing can beat the original, and I think people of the bodybuilding world know this.
I noticed this too...And the "other companies" ads being in black and white.
Walking into the Arnold for the first time this past year was batshit. Seeing the cage was even more insane. You can't, no matter how hard you try to, replicate and copy the ANIMAL cage.
There were times when I was wandering around the expo, and I could clearly hear Vinny or Juggs' DJing over the Expo's background music or the other booths music.
And remember, copying something is the most sincerest form of a compliment to the origional.
....and I like my 11 pills in the morning. Wouldn't feel right taking just one, even though they all go down in one gulp.
I remember working the Arnold and figured the next day I would come in and hang out and go check out the expo. I turned left out of the cage made it 10 feet and said fuck it and just hung out at the cage for the 2nd day in a row. Met a lot of good people and this to me is just as important as not being lied to about supplements. I want to go w/ a company I feel is telling me the truth and not shitting out my live 10 years down the road because I was being lied to about what was in my supp ya know. I am now back to 99% Animal/UN products except for some very minor things I buy at kroger for cheap.
Guys, I saw first hand the preference of Animal/Universal among the punters a couple weeks ago at Bodypower. I have never seen so many bullshit taglines and flashy bullshit that is not welcome in the bodybuilding world in my eyes. But the Animal stand was simple, hardcore, no flashy bullshit with empty promises. Just old school and real hardcore, and this was without a doubt the most busy stall of the whole place. People were flocking to ask Ox, House, and G Diesel questions, yes that's right, the pros were actually WORKING the stall and getting in direct contact with the fans and communicating with them. Every other stall was some fat salesman telling you how much muscle you can add in a couple weeks with their new test booster or some shit, and you could get a quick picture with a pro. But Animal, just inherently being how it was, was the most popular stall by far. This goes to show that many can attempt to push down or imitate Animal, but nothing can beat the original, and I think people of the bodybuilding world know this.
Damn straight, on one of the very rare occasions that he wasn't being approached by people or posing for pictures, signing stuff or giving out advices, Ox went & approached them.
Much more community, much less conveyor belt everybody down the line, take their money, who's next?
And good point on the other stalls being full of salesmen. Obviously you had a number of them with their sponsored pros standing by for the pictures, but it was guys who looked like they "worked out" 2-3 times a week, sticking rigidly to 3 sets of 10, giving it the sales patter.
rbowman91
06-04-12, 2:28 pm
Typical MuscleTech product:
Incredibly overpriced, an absurd amount of empty promises, and tricking novices into purchasing by providing false hope. Make the supplement seem like an easy way out, as if it was some kind of magic. "Take our natural GH booster and gain 15 lbs of muscle in a month." Then add a pic of Branch Warren (no offense to Branch, who is an incredible bodybuilder).
MuscleTech is coming at Animal because they recently changed their advertising strategy from the above ^ type of thing. Now they are going for the "no nonsense, no bullsh*t" type of branding that Animal is well known for. However, the reason Animal has been so successful with this is because they provide products that actually do work well with a no-nonsense approach. It's really just an attempt to take a piece of the niche market that Animal has had on lock for years.
Doesn't matter though. Animal has become somewhat of a movement (i.e. Animal Barbell Club's, etc), where pros and reps actually connect with the fans on the same level. MuscleTech will never be able to replicate that.
You know one of the top reasons why I'm an Animal/Universal guy?
Because at the end of everything, they are a supps company, & out of the top 4 things with regards to importance to progress, Eating, Training, Sleeping, Supplements, you know what they put at number 4 ..
Supps.
That shit impressed me on day 1, & has stuck with me ever since.
Universal Rep
06-04-12, 3:57 pm
Just says it all.
But I still can't see other companies doing their versions of an ABC
I believe one company did try to push sumthin like the ABCs not that long ago... Dunno wut happened to that.
Mr. Dead
06-04-12, 4:01 pm
I believe one company did try to push sumthin like the ABCs not that long ago... Dunno wut happened to that.
And how many Pros vs. Bros have we seen spring up...??? *LOL*
Universal Rep
06-04-12, 4:04 pm
And how many Pros vs. Bros have we seen spring up...??? *LOL*
Sure that too now that ya remind me, but wuz referrin to sumthin else...
rbowman91
06-04-12, 11:38 pm
How about Animal v. MuscleTech in a Bench-Your-Bodyweight-For-Reps at the next Arnold Classic Cage?
How about Animal v. MuscleTech in a Bench-Your-Bodyweight-For-Reps at the next Arnold Classic Cage?
um.....we did something like that a few years ago..
and lost.
I was thumbing through Flex this past week and something caught my eye... A MuscleTech Vitakic ad says in bold highlighted letters "you no longer have to choke down 22 pills from your multi." That couldn't be the industry giant taking a shot at little old us, could it?
What would be their motivation? Could they possibly perceive The U/Animal as a threat? I mean, I don't see them targeting anyone else and in all honesty I don't really see many others in the industry positioning themselves in such a manner. What's the deal?
Peace, G
As a former Iovate athlete where I was a face in the crowd and having used their bullshit products I can tell u they need all the help they can get. If they are attacking us let them I'd personally choke down 100 pills of a universal product before I'd ingest one fckin pill from those money grubbing lying assholes
RedlegDbell
06-05-12, 12:32 am
And how many Pros vs. Bros have we seen spring up...??? *LOL*
Right on Mr. D. Others do the "Bench Your Bodyweight" too if I'm not mistaken.
Universal Rep
06-05-12, 8:36 am
um.....we did something like that a few years ago..
and lost.
It was a sad, sad day... Many hearts were broken, and pride shattered.
It was a sad, sad day... Many hearts were broken, and pride shattered.
yes, but our natural athletes brought their A game, and even with some of them injured, still hit some high numbers.
um.....we did something like that a few years ago..
and lost.
Raised money for a military charity did it not?
Raised money for a military charity did it not?
hire heroes, i believe.
Altered Beast
06-05-12, 3:49 pm
We run shit. Every company out there mimics our supplements and fails to deliver. We don't sell out to corporate interests like every other company out there just to be popular for a year than fade away into the ashes of history.
Our time is not yet here, but once it is, we will sit on top for a long, long time.
anuheakane
06-05-12, 4:44 pm
Sounds like a marketing bs to me...
A local GNC guys use that "you don't have to take so many pills" line to push certain products...I countered it with "I've been taking Animal Pak and it's been working well for me"...basically told him to f-off. We know it works. We know it's solid. So they can keep BS-ing just to make money...let the results in us speak for itself.