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Rage
10-26-09, 3:03 pm
Rage, I think I replied too fast and you missed my post LOL! Sorry about that. I'm ready to rock here brother. No cutting hell for Hoom, it's still bulking season for at least another year yet before I even think about a cut and a stage. If I'm going to step on a stage at over 6'3" tall and fully cut, I want more muscle on the frame first than what is there right now. I don't even want to think about how skinny and stick-like I would look right now after a full competition grade cut. Probably look like one of the Aliens from "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" LOL!

http://thecia.com.au/reviews/c/images/close-encounters-of-the-third-kind-7.jpg

Mass time brother.

Hg

Oh, I did miss that bro. Ok, so what are your carbs and protein at? And are you using Pump?

Mr. Dead
10-26-09, 3:03 pm
Do you want me to continue the same split I've been doing, until I start my prep/cut...???

weedlewott
10-26-09, 3:10 pm
Works for me bro. Check in every Tuesday.

Figured that would be easier for you to keep up with. Since you have it down to a science. So far as supplementation, what would you recommend? I'm taking Pak, Pump occasionally, and a protein shake. 16g Carbs, 52g Protein, 10g Glutamine. I've got Uni-Liver, Nitro, and Shock Therapy just kinda hangin out. Thoughts?

Hoomgar
10-26-09, 3:41 pm
Oh, I did miss that bro. Ok, so what are your carbs and protein at? And are you using Pump?

Carbs and Protein have shifted more towards C250 P340 but I've also let loose from day to day here. I'm floating. One day I'm still sticking to the Yellow team diet and the next day I'm all over the place. I need to pull this back in.

Rage
10-26-09, 4:03 pm
Do you want me to continue the same split I've been doing, until I start my prep/cut...???

I think that would work best for you since you had a pretty good inturruption. How are you feeling these days? When are you cleared to train again?

Hoomgar
10-26-09, 4:04 pm
Carbs and Protein have shifted more towards C250 P340 but I've also let loose from day to day here. I'm floating. One day I'm still sticking to the Yellow team diet and the next day I'm all over the place. I need to pull this back in.

Oh and yes to Animal Pump bro...

Rage
10-26-09, 4:05 pm
Figured that would be easier for you to keep up with. Since you have it down to a science. So far as supplementation, what would you recommend? I'm taking Pak, Pump occasionally, and a protein shake. 16g Carbs, 52g Protein, 10g Glutamine. I've got Uni-Liver, Nitro, and Shock Therapy just kinda hangin out. Thoughts?

Pak and Flex are staples for me and I highly recommend them. Glautamine and creatine also are awesome dailys. Love Pump preworkout. Are you using a text booster? If not, consider adding in Stak.

Rage
10-26-09, 4:08 pm
Carbs and Protein have shifted more towards C250 P340 but I've also let loose from day to day here. I'm floating. One day I'm still sticking to the Yellow team diet and the next day I'm all over the place. I need to pull this back in.


Oh and yes to Animal Pump bro...

Ok, well the Pump takes care of your creatine. Just follow pretty much the same diet monday through Friday and let loose a bit on the weekends. If you want, you can still do your check ins on Mondays. Same stats as before.

Mr. Dead
10-26-09, 4:11 pm
I think that would work best for you since you had a pretty good inturruption. How are you feeling these days? When are you cleared to train again?

Trying to "ease" into it, tonight... Just to get the blood moving a little... Still no appetite, but not hackin' and gaggin', and no fever...

Hoomgar
10-26-09, 4:17 pm
Ok, well the Pump takes care of your creatine. Just follow pretty much the same diet monday through Friday and let loose a bit on the weekends. If you want, you can still do your check ins on Mondays. Same stats as before.

I will bro. I liked the accountability. That helped me a lot. Are all vegetables and fruits fair game or should I watch for anything? I do need to spice the diet up a bit more than I did before. I was just stiff about it and it was bland. My own fault. I want to add more vegetables back in now.

I'm cutting out Torrent & Storm then?

Rage
10-26-09, 4:17 pm
Trying to "ease" into it, tonight... Just to get the blood moving a little... Still no appetite, but not hackin' and gaggin', and no fever...

Good news. I was definitely worried about you. That shit is nasty and has to be taken seriously. Glad your doing better. Go easy.

Mr. Dead
10-26-09, 4:36 pm
Good news. I was definitely worried about you. That shit is nasty and has to be taken seriously. Glad your doing better. Go easy.

Thanks... I was worried about me, too...

Rage
10-26-09, 4:39 pm
I will bro. I liked the accountability. That helped me a lot. Are all vegetables and fruits fair game or should I watch for anything? I do need to spice the diet up a bit more than I did before. I was just stiff about it and it was bland. My own fault. I want to add more vegetables back in now.

I'm cutting out Torrent & Storm then?

Glad to help you bro. You can eat fruits and vegetables, no problem. Just don't let them interfere with your normal meals. In other words, make them a small part of a few meals here and there.

fatbackgoal
10-26-09, 4:54 pm
If your able to do everything exactly the way it's outlined, then I say we start over with the beginning diet and routine listed at the beginning of the Team Red thread. Start with 45 minutes again on cardio and be ready to bump up week to week. Looking forward to working with you.


Sounds good and will check in weekly like before. Going to order the APT singly ply knee sleeves to help out. Went to the show this weekend and while everyone was in pretty good condition nobody came with any real size. Going to push it and put a ton of muscle on the frame AND the conditioning.

weedlewott
10-26-09, 8:00 pm
Pak and Flex are staples for me and I highly recommend them. Glautamine and creatine also are awesome dailys. Love Pump preworkout. Are you using a test booster? If not, consider adding in Stak.

Nah. I'm not using a test booster. I was thinking Tribulus Pro maybe? Since it does come in just a little bit cheaper. What about your thoughts on Natural Sterol Complex?

Basic Line-Up consideration:
Pak
Flex
Stak?
Cuts (last two months for 2 cycles?)
Pump

Just wanna get everything in line when I start droppin the bills. Lol. I wanna do this right and get as much as I can out of it. I know your supplementation is only supposed to be as advanced as you are, which is why I ask. I don't want to over do it.

Rage
10-27-09, 10:01 am
Sounds good and will check in weekly like before. Going to order the APT singly ply knee sleeves to help out. Went to the show this weekend and while everyone was in pretty good condition nobody came with any real size. Going to push it and put a ton of muscle on the frame AND the conditioning.

More often you'll find that conditioning wins those smaller shows. I look forward to working with you again Rod.

Rage
10-27-09, 10:04 am
Nah. I'm not using a test booster. I was thinking Tribulus Pro maybe? Since it does come in just a little bit cheaper. What about your thoughts on Natural Sterol Complex?

Basic Line-Up consideration:
Pak
Flex
Stak?
Cuts (last two months for 2 cycles?)
Pump

Just wanna get everything in line when I start droppin the bills. Lol. I wanna do this right and get as much as I can out of it. I know your supplementation is only supposed to be as advanced as you are, which is why I ask. I don't want to over do it.

Use Stak if you can swing it but Tribulus Pro is an awesome test booster by itself. Your stack looks solid to me brother. Lets get it done Cory my brother.

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 10:41 am
Use Stak if you can swing it but Tribulus Pro is an awesome test booster by itself. Your stack looks solid to me brother. Lets get it done Cory my brother.

Rage is spot on with that. It's worth the Money Cory. My favorite Animal supp right there bro. Animal Stak. Your lifts will go up subtly and steadily. Cycle a few cans if you can. It's money well spent.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 10:55 am
Use Stak if you can swing it but Tribulus Pro is an awesome test booster by itself. Your stack looks solid to me brother. Lets get it done Cory my brother.

Picked up two cans of Stak and Cuts last night. By picked up I mean that I ordered it online. Lol...

Okay, since I started the diet and routine yesterday, i guess I'll hit you up with my starting stats.

BW:227
BF: 14.9% (same as end of contest)
Waist: 36 across navel

Am I right in that I should be at 360g Pro and 160g Carbs at the start? Or am I off somewhere? Also, Neck press... That's just bringing the bar higher than the middle chest and at your neck, correct? Because if it is, I feel really weak on that movement only getting 205 for 16 today... This counts as check in number one if that's okay with you. I got impatient. Lol. I'm truly privileged to be under your tutelage again Tom.

clifsgoals
10-27-09, 11:20 am
Well up and down week, fought a cold. Down to 229 during the week. seemed to go up and down with body weight. Hunger at a 6 out of 10. carbs still at 125g or lower. Feeling better now and feel the week will have better results.

Thanks
Clif

Rage
10-27-09, 12:46 pm
Picked up two cans of Stak and Cuts last night. By picked up I mean that I ordered it online. Lol...

Okay, since I started the diet and routine yesterday, i guess I'll hit you up with my starting stats.

BW:227
BF: 14.9% (same as end of contest)
Waist: 36 across navel

Am I right in that I should be at 360g Pro and 160g Carbs at the start? Or am I off somewhere? Also, Neck press... That's just bringing the bar higher than the middle chest and at your neck, correct? Because if it is, I feel really weak on that movement only getting 205 for 16 today... This counts as check in number one if that's okay with you. I got impatient. Lol. I'm truly privileged to be under your tutelage again Tom.

I think your going to cut up very nicely Cory. Yes, thats a good starting point on the diet. And your right again on the Neck Press. Don't worry about the weight, just pick a weight thats safe and gets the job done. Are you still starting on the 1st?

Rage
10-27-09, 12:49 pm
Well up and down week, fought a cold. Down to 229 during the week. seemed to go up and down with body weight. Hunger at a 6 out of 10. carbs still at 125g or lower. Feeling better now and feel the week will have better results.

Thanks
Clif

Well I'm glad your feeling better now. I hate colds. Lets do 2 lbs tomorrow. How many pounds to you gain or drop this past week?

weedlewott
10-27-09, 12:50 pm
I think your going to cut up very nicely Cory. Yes, thats a good starting point on the diet. And your right again on the Neck Press. Don't worry about the weight, just pick a weight thats safe and gets the job done. Are you still starting on the 1st?

I went ahead and started today since I had everything for at least day one on the diet and had plans of grocery shopping. That and it's easier to start on a Tuesday since check in is Tuesdays. I was up last night late figuring out all the macros for smaller servings of each individual food item (1oz for each) so I could make the tweaks easier when they come. I'm doing this one right. Did my studying. Now it's just for the questions when they come up along the way. Would you like the same update type as in the diet or something different? Sorry for the abundance of questions. Just don't wanna get started on the wrong foot.

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 12:51 pm
Is egg nog good for an off-season bulk... Or should I find a 12-step program to aid with my addiction to it...??? *LOL*

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 1:24 pm
Is egg nog good for an off-season bulk... Or should I find a 12-step program to aid with my addiction to it...??? *LOL*

Post work out right? Well and pre-... intra?

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 1:24 pm
Post work out right? Well and pre-... intra?

1 gallon per day...

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 1:26 pm
1 gallon per day...

As good as that sounds, I don't think Rage is going to stamp his approval on it *L*

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 1:27 pm
As good as that sounds, I don't think Rage is going to stamp his approval on it *L*

I got in trouble for it, last year...

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 1:29 pm
I got in trouble for it, last year...

Egg Nog Flavored Real Gains and Ultra Whey Pro. Just sayin....

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 1:30 pm
Egg Nog Flavored Real Gains and Ultra Whey Pro. Just sayin....

But, this year, I gots some calories to make up...

Rage
10-27-09, 2:02 pm
I went ahead and started today since I had everything for at least day one on the diet and had plans of grocery shopping. That and it's easier to start on a Tuesday since check in is Tuesdays. I was up last night late figuring out all the macros for smaller servings of each individual food item (1oz for each) so I could make the tweaks easier when they come. I'm doing this one right. Did my studying. Now it's just for the questions when they come up along the way. Would you like the same update type as in the diet or something different? Sorry for the abundance of questions. Just don't wanna get started on the wrong foot.

Same updates like you were doing last time work great bro. And remember what I said about questions, the more successful people tend to ask many more questions. It's never a burden on me. Your the one doing all the work. Ok, so no cheat meals for 2 weeks.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 2:11 pm
Same updates like you were doing last time work great bro. And remember what I said about questions, the more successful people tend to ask many more questions. It's never a burden on me. Your the one doing all the work. Ok, so no cheat meals for 2 weeks.

Okay. Sounds good to me. I can handle no cheats for a couple weeks. Hell, I can probably do it the whole time. But we all know how Holidays go. Lol. Timing... Suggestions? I usually start my days around 5 in the AM. I figure cardio then? And once I get home, hit the first meal so around 6. Every 2.5-3 hours? Which would put me eating right before bed at around 10?

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 2:13 pm
Okay. Sounds good to me. I can handle no cheats for a couple weeks. Hell, I can probably do it the whole time. But we all know how Holidays go. Lol. Timing... Suggestions? I usually start my days around 5 in the AM. I figure cardio then? And once I get home, hit the first meal so around 6. Every 2.5-3 hours? Which would put me eating right before bed at around 10?

*LOL* Be careful what you wish for, on that... I went a vast majority of my prep without cheat meals... I think I got a total of 4 in 20 weeks...

weedlewott
10-27-09, 2:17 pm
*LOL* Be careful what you wish for, on that... I went a vast majority of my prep without cheat meals... I think I got a total of 4 in 20 weeks...

Don't know if you saw it or not on my contest pics, but I've got a lot to lose. Lol.

Q
10-27-09, 2:26 pm
Hey Rage, any suggestions for getting back to the weights after this short transition? Should i just hit the ground running again or ease into it. I was thinking about using the yellow team split, I have never divided it up quite like that, but i like how it looks. Thanks

Rage
10-27-09, 2:34 pm
Okay. Sounds good to me. I can handle no cheats for a couple weeks. Hell, I can probably do it the whole time. But we all know how Holidays go. Lol. Timing... Suggestions? I usually start my days around 5 in the AM. I figure cardio then? And once I get home, hit the first meal so around 6. Every 2.5-3 hours? Which would put me eating right before bed at around 10?

I'll let you know on the cheats. Cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is best. I would prefer you eat your last meal no later than 7:30 if your going to bed around 10. You might be able to get a couple meals closer to two hours apart.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 3:02 pm
I'll let you know on the cheats. Cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is best. I would prefer you eat your last meal no later than 7:30 if your going to bed around 10. You might be able to get a couple meals closer to two hours apart.

Sounds good to me Tom. I'll leave this thread alone until I have another valid question so other people can get in. Lol.

OklahomaMuscle
10-27-09, 3:28 pm
As advised I have taken the last 10 days and done easy cardio with a few sessions of weights and let my body heal and settle. Weight is staying at about 210 and oddly enough vascularity and definition in my arms and legs has increased?? Diet was onpoint till this weekend when I took a much needed mental break(read: breakdown), although looking back my calories were way low as opposed to too high. Ready to get started with phase two... itching to get after it...btw thanks for the write up about coming in second/competing in the Team Red thread, felt like you were talking right to me I definitely needed that

Rage
10-27-09, 4:33 pm
Sounds good to me Tom. I'll leave this thread alone until I have another valid question so other people can get in. Lol.

No worries brother. Anytime.


As advised I have taken the last 10 days and done easy cardio with a few sessions of weights and let my body heal and settle. Weight is staying at about 210 and oddly enough vascularity and definition in my arms and legs has increased?? Diet was onpoint till this weekend when I took a much needed mental break(read: breakdown), although looking back my calories were way low as opposed to too high. Ready to get started with phase two... itching to get after it...btw thanks for the write up about coming in second/competing in the Team Red thread, felt like you were talking right to me I definitely needed that

Competing is tough stuff. Hard on you mentally and physically. But I will say that you produced some incredible results and I'm still very proud of you bro. You've put some extra carbs in there so your vascularity is going to come out and play. So what are we doing from here? You wanting to get on stage next year?

OklahomaMuscle
10-27-09, 4:40 pm
Competing is tough stuff. Hard on you mentally and physically. But I will say that you produced some incredible results and I'm still very proud of you bro. You've put some extra carbs in there so your vascularity is going to come out and play. So what are we doing from here? You wanting to get on stage next year?

The plan is to compete in next years NPC Red River Bodybuilding show which is late October next year. I know I need to add some legit size before I cut again as I feel if I were to drop to a contest Bf% right now I'd be a middleweight at best, not good for someone 6ft+... I want to compete, but I don't want to push it and step on stage before I'm physically ready. Opinions?

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 4:41 pm
Is egg nog good for an off-season bulk... Or should I find a 12-step program to aid with my addiction to it...??? *LOL*

*Bump...*

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 4:53 pm
The plan is to compete in next years NPC Red River Bodybuilding show which is late October next year. I know I need to add some legit size before I cut again as I feel if I were to drop to a contest Bf% right now I'd be a middleweight at best, not good for someone 6ft+... I want to compete, but I don't want to push it and step on stage before I'm physically ready. Opinions?

Completely feel ya on that bro.

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 4:54 pm
*Bump...*

Oh so you were serious? Hmmm, it's worse that I thought *L*

Rage
10-27-09, 4:57 pm
The plan is to compete in next years NPC Red River Bodybuilding show which is late October next year. I know I need to add some legit size before I cut again as I feel if I were to drop to a contest Bf% right now I'd be a middleweight at best, not good for someone 6ft+... I want to compete, but I don't want to push it and step on stage before I'm physically ready. Opinions?

Chances are, your never going to be completely happy with yourself, but we definitely have time to add some more mass. I'm ready to help whenever your ready to get started.

Rage
10-27-09, 5:00 pm
*Bump...*


Oh so you were serious? Hmmm, it's worse that I thought *L*

Yes, Chris has some issues that require tissues from time to time lol. You've never heard of Nog Anonymus? I think they have a support group too complete with weekly classes.

Hey, off season is off season. You can always get a bit of the old nog in there. Hell, knowing you, you'll be adding whey protein to it lol.

Hoomgar
10-27-09, 5:02 pm
Yes, Chris has some issues that require tissues from time to time lol. You've never heard of Nog Anonymus? I think they have a support group too complete with weekly classes.

Hey, off season is off season. You can always get a bit of the old nog in there. Hell, knowing you, you'll be adding whey protein to it lol.

It's liquid egg whites after all now isn't it? :D

Mr. Dead
10-27-09, 5:02 pm
Yes, Chris has some issues that require tissues from time to time lol. You've never heard of Nog Anonymus? I think they have a support group too complete with weekly classes.

Hey, off season is off season. You can always get a bit of the old nog in there. Hell, knowing you, you'll be adding whey protein to it lol.

Uhm... How did you know I add whey protein to it...???

OklahomaMuscle
10-27-09, 5:08 pm
Chances are, your never going to be completely happy with yourself, but we definitely have time to add some more mass. I'm ready to help whenever your ready to get started.

I'm definitely ready to get started. I really appreciate the help Rage, it's tough to come by someone with an honest and knowledgeable critique around these parts... not many "bodybuilders" willing to help a newbie get in the game, at least not where I live

Q
10-27-09, 6:07 pm
Hey Rage, any suggestions for getting back to the weights after this short transition? Should i just hit the ground running again or ease into it. I was thinking about using the yellow team split, I have never divided it up quite like that, but i like how it looks. Thanks

Think I got lost in the shuffle...

Rage
10-27-09, 7:12 pm
It's liquid egg whites after all now isn't it? :D

Sounds good..


Uhm... How did you know I add whey protein to it...???

You ARE Mr Dead.


I'm definitely ready to get started. I really appreciate the help Rage, it's tough to come by someone with an honest and knowledgeable critique around these parts... not many "bodybuilders" willing to help a newbie get in the game, at least not where I live

Do you want to try that bulking split or something different? Your at home here on the Animal Forum brother.


Think I got lost in the shuffle...

Oh man, sorry about that Matt. Startin to show my age over here lol. Go a bit easy the first week back and then go balls to the wall the second week on. Ya, I really like that bulking split.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 7:15 pm
Found a relevant question as I sat there eating my moist, yet bland ass chicken and salad... Seasonings? I know that Sodium intake is important, so that knocks out most things and almost everything else has carbs. Or... Should I just suck it up and drive on? Because I can deal either way.

Rage
10-27-09, 7:34 pm
Found a relevant question as I sat there eating my moist, yet bland ass chicken and salad... Seasonings? I know that Sodium intake is important, so that knocks out most things and almost everything else has carbs. Or... Should I just suck it up and drive on? Because I can deal either way.

Say no to shit chicken. Sodium is important alright. It's important to keep it in your diet. Pam spray the bottom of your skillet. Fillet your chicken so it's thin. Put it in the skillet and Pam spray the top of the chicken. Sprinkle whatever damn seasoning you want. My favorite is McCormicks Garlic and Onion. It's going to take you a few times to cook it before you get it right. Good stuff. Let me know what you think.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 7:39 pm
Say no to shit chicken. Sodium is important alright. It's important to keep it in your diet. Pam spray the bottom of your skillet. Fillet your chicken so it's thin. Put it in the skillet and Pam spray the top of the chicken. Sprinkle whatever damn seasoning you want. My favorite is McCormicks Garlic and Onion. It's going to take you a few times to cook it before you get it right. Good stuff. Let me know what you think.

Oh, see, seasoning is not a problem to me at all... I was the head cook/manager at a restaurant for 2 years. Ha. I got that part down. I was just wondering. I meant important as in keeping it balanced. How much would you think is too much? Thanks. I'll look into the McCormicks Garlic and Onion. Give Mrs. Dash's Original Table Blend a shot. C'est tres bon.

Rage
10-27-09, 8:24 pm
Oh, see, seasoning is not a problem to me at all... I was the head cook/manager at a restaurant for 2 years. Ha. I got that part down. I was just wondering. I meant important as in keeping it balanced. How much would you think is too much? Thanks. I'll look into the McCormicks Garlic and Onion. Give Mrs. Dash's Original Table Blend a shot. C'est tres bon.

I'm not sure if I've tried that exact one from Mrs Dash, but I can tell you I haven't liked anything from that line of Mrs Dash so far. McCormicks tastes ten times better to me. I've never measured sodium. I don't cover everything with salt or seasoning but just a little here and there. Just don't get carried away with it. I have all kinds of tricks for removing water from the skin when the time comes. Until then, just use some common sense.

weedlewott
10-27-09, 9:59 pm
I'm not sure if I've tried that exact one from Mrs Dash, but I can tell you I haven't liked anything from that line of Mrs Dash so far. McCormicks tastes ten times better to me. I've never measured sodium. I don't cover everything with salt or seasoning but just a little here and there. Just don't get carried away with it. I have all kinds of tricks for removing water from the skin when the time comes. Until then, just use some common sense.

Roger that big man. I don't care too much for salt anyway. Never have. You're right though. Most McCormick's stuff does taste better. I just like the Dash stuff... Pretty good. On baked chicken anyway. Lol.

Hoomgar
10-28-09, 8:53 am
Ya, I really like that bulking split.

I'm sticking with it as well. I put on more quality muscle in those 12+ weeks I used it than I did in the entire previous year and that is no BS. Sticking with what is working...




Say no to shit chicken. Sodium is important alright. It's important to keep it in your diet. Pam spray the bottom of your skillet. Fillet your chicken so it's thin. Put it in the skillet and Pam spray the top of the chicken. Sprinkle whatever damn seasoning you want. My favorite is McCormicks Garlic and Onion. It's going to take you a few times to cook it before you get it right. Good stuff. Let me know what you think.

You told me that and I admit to "chickening out" and not trying it yet. I'm going to at some point though. Right now we been doing a whole batch at a time in either the crock pot or the pressure cooker. One question about your way of cooking it, do you flip it at some point during the cooking or just leave it until done?

Hg

weedlewott
10-28-09, 10:06 am
You told me that and I admit to "chickening out" and not trying it yet. I'm going to at some point though. Right now we been doing a whole batch at a time in either the crock pot or the pressure cooker. One question about your way of cooking it, do you flip it at some point during the cooking or just leave it until done?

Hg

With chicken, you don't have to flip it as often as you would say a hamburger or a steak, but you still have to flip it. Maybe twice each side until it's finished. That way you hold the moisture in. When you head something up, the moisture rises to the top. We all know that hot air rises, well, in foods, so does moisture. As soon as you start to see some juice come out of the top, flip it over. Keep it in the middle... As for the McCormicks, I picked some of it up last night and it was off the hook. Thanks for that one Tom. Question.... I was looking over the split and noticed there isn't any calf work. Did I just miss it or do you want me to put it in on back/traps day? Also, your takes on cardio on leg day please... Thanks.

Cory.

Rage
10-28-09, 10:20 am
You told me that and I admit to "chickening out" and not trying it yet. I'm going to at some point though. Right now we been doing a whole batch at a time in either the crock pot or the pressure cooker. One question about your way of cooking it, do you flip it at some point during the cooking or just leave it until done?

Hg[/QUOTE]

I would say I probably flip it every 2 or 3 minutes until I think it's done. I shared some of that chicken with Steve on the way out to Vegas for the Olympia and he fell in love with that recipe. Us Animals have to stick together lol. God knows we eat enough chicken. Might as well taste good.

Rage
10-28-09, 10:23 am
With chicken, you don't have to flip it as often as you would say a hamburger or a steak, but you still have to flip it. Maybe twice each side until it's finished. That way you hold the moisture in. When you head something up, the moisture rises to the top. We all know that hot air rises, well, in foods, so does moisture. As soon as you start to see some juice come out of the top, flip it over. Keep it in the middle... As for the McCormicks, I picked some of it up last night and it was off the hook. Thanks for that one Tom. Question.... I was looking over the split and noticed there isn't any calf work. Did I just miss it or do you want me to put it in on back/traps day? Also, your takes on cardio on leg day please... Thanks.

Cory.

Good point on the chicken. That's some experience talking right there. One of these days I'll fix that routine and add those calves in. I like to do calves on back day because thats when I seem to ahve more time to get them in. Also, no cardio on leg day. Cardio is 6 days a week.

Hoomgar
10-28-09, 10:24 am
God knows we eat enough chicken. Might as well taste good.

Amen to that! And steak :)

weedlewott
10-28-09, 10:34 am
Good point on the chicken. That's some experience talking right there. One of these days I'll fix that routine and add those calves in. I like to do calves on back day because thats when I seem to ahve more time to get them in. Also, no cardio on leg day. Cardio is 6 days a week.

Lol. Yep. Got in enough trouble for serving dry chicken, I learned. Okay. I was thinking that you just missed it and meant to put it in on the back day as you did on the bulk split you have. I went ahead and did Cardio today after my leg workout. It didn't bother me, but if you say so, I'll cut it out of the equation on that particular day. Thank you much.

weedlewott
10-28-09, 12:46 pm
Eat the skin on the Yams/Sweet Potatoes? Yes, no, maybe? i wanna say yes.... But figured I'd ask the boss.

Rage
10-28-09, 1:27 pm
Eat the skin on the Yams/Sweet Potatoes? Yes, no, maybe? i wanna say yes.... But figured I'd ask the boss.

Yes

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
10-28-09, 4:32 pm
Question for ya big man. What really hits the outer sweep? Besides hack squats(don't have access to one).

Rage
10-28-09, 5:44 pm
Question for ya big man. What really hits the outer sweep? Besides hack squats(don't have access to one).

Front Squats. Helps take some of the load off the ass and onto the quads. Ass to the grass.

weedlewott
10-28-09, 5:50 pm
Yes

Okay.. Got it... One more thing... Damn you... Lol. I'm starving right now and have one more meal left to go.

Rage
10-28-09, 6:26 pm
Okay.. Got it... One more thing... Damn you... Lol. I'm starving right now and have one more meal left to go.

Lol, hang in there..it only gets worse : )

Mr. Dead
10-28-09, 7:14 pm
Lol, hang in there..it only gets worse : )

Thankfully, there's always green beans and spinach... *LOL*

clifsgoals
10-29-09, 10:08 am
Rage,

Sorry man I lost 3lb last week. down to 229.

weedlewott
10-29-09, 10:14 am
Lol, hang in there..it only gets worse : )

Oh, I can hang in there. That's not a problem. Ha ha. For now anyway. Diary products are out, correct?

Rage
10-29-09, 12:53 pm
Thankfully, there's always green beans and spinach... *LOL*

True.


Rage,

Sorry man I lost 3lb last week. down to 229.

Ok. Your making some awesome progress.


Oh, I can hang in there. That's not a problem. Ha ha. For now anyway. Diary products are out, correct?

No dairy except on a cheat.

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
10-29-09, 12:56 pm
Front Squats. Helps take some of the load off the ass and onto the quads. Ass to the grass.

Regular front squats or should I elevate my heels?

Rage
10-29-09, 1:31 pm
Regular front squats or should I elevate my heels?

Try doing them flat footed. Only elevate your heals if you have to. Have you started a contest journey or are you going to keep your other one?

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
10-29-09, 1:33 pm
Try doing them flat footed. Only elevate your heals if you have to. Have you started a contest journey or are you going to keep your other one?

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=27060

Kept the same one. I went ahead started it in the contest section, because I only had like 9 weeks of my bulk left. Theres the link.

Rage
10-29-09, 1:39 pm
http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=27060

Kept the same one. I went ahead started it in the contest section, because I only had like 9 weeks of my bulk left. Theres the link.

Awesome. Looking forward to this.

fatbackgoal
10-29-09, 6:07 pm
Hey Rage,

Forgot to mention if I should stay on the same supplement plan. Will be taking Pak, Liver Tabs, Protein shake, Omega 3 fish oil caps daily. Not sure about creatine or anything else.

fatbackgoal
10-29-09, 6:41 pm
Also sorry if this has been asked before but what are your thoughts on macademia nut oil?

Rage
10-29-09, 7:31 pm
Hey Rage,

Forgot to mention if I should stay on the same supplement plan. Will be taking Pak, Liver Tabs, Protein shake, Omega 3 fish oil caps daily. Not sure about creatine or anything else.

These are great.


Also sorry if this has been asked before but what are your thoughts on macademia nut oil?

No macadamia nut oil. Thats some good stuff on keto but I don't do keto diets. Evan is a pro at it.

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
10-29-09, 7:34 pm
Also sorry if this has been asked before but what are your thoughts on macademia nut oil?


These are great.



No macadamia nut oil. Thats some good stuff on keto but I don't do keto diets. Evan is a pro at it.

Does this count out olive oil?

Rage
10-29-09, 7:37 pm
Does this count out olive oil?

Small amount , 1 tbsp, as dressing for salad is fine.

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
10-29-09, 7:43 pm
Small amount , 1 tbsp, as dressing for salad is fine.

So that means rubbing my tilapia with oliveoil before I throw it on the grill is a no go? Or does it dissipate on the grill? I'm 19 and don't have any cooking skills other than "ok its done" or "ahh, a few more minutes." haha

Littlefry
10-29-09, 8:07 pm
Rage, Ive been reading through this thread for awhile now bro, you give solid advice and its great to see you helping out so many forvm members. Ill be following along this thread as well as the progress of some of the members who are using your diet and training programs.

Good job, and Im sure everyone appreciates the help you giving them.

Rage
10-30-09, 9:08 am
So that means rubbing my tilapia with oliveoil before I throw it on the grill is a no go? Or does it dissipate on the grill? I'm 19 and don't have any cooking skills other than "ok its done" or "ahh, a few more minutes." haha

In fact I would even limit it to 1 tblsp a day. Up to you where you want to use it. Pam spray becomes a good friend during your diet.

Rage
10-30-09, 9:09 am
Rage, Ive been reading through this thread for awhile now bro, you give solid advice and its great to see you helping out so many forvm members. Ill be following along this thread as well as the progress of some of the members who are using your diet and training programs.

Good job, and Im sure everyone appreciates the help you giving them.

Thanks brother. I really appreciate the support. If there's anything I can help you with, please feel free to ask.

Littlefry
10-30-09, 1:08 pm
Yea not right now really, Im just bulking until the end of Jan. Then Ill start cutting Feb to see how I look and decided if in the next year if I would like to do a show or not.

fatbackgoal
10-31-09, 1:13 am
Going to add MStak and Pump to the plan if you think that is ok?

weedlewott
10-31-09, 6:33 pm
Wanted to get your thoughts on this. I've got 2 1/2 cans of Cuts. Two new formula, and one old formula. Do you think I should take the rest of the old can now, take two weeks, then start my Cuts/Stak cycles then? I understand that you want cardio to be the primary fat burner right now, but I've got the cans of cuts, plus a full bottle of Universal Fat Burner. Whatever you think would be best, I'll get up and running. Thanks Rage.

weedlewott
10-31-09, 8:57 pm
Wanted to get your thoughts on this. I've got 2 1/2 cans of Cuts. Two new formula, and one old formula. Do you think I should take the rest of the old can now, take two weeks, then start my Cuts/Stak cycles then? I understand that you want cardio to be the primary fat burner right now, but I've got the cans of cuts, plus a full bottle of Universal Fat Burner. Whatever you think would be best, I'll get up and running. Thanks Rage.
Maybe I should clarify some before you get to it. Two cans of new and a half a can of the old..... Sorry.

Rage
11-02-09, 9:28 am
Going to add MStak and Pump to the plan if you think that is ok?

Absolutely ok Rod. Love that Pump.


Wanted to get your thoughts on this. I've got 2 1/2 cans of Cuts. Two new formula, and one old formula. Do you think I should take the rest of the old can now, take two weeks, then start my Cuts/Stak cycles then? I understand that you want cardio to be the primary fat burner right now, but I've got the cans of cuts, plus a full bottle of Universal Fat Burner. Whatever you think would be best, I'll get up and running. Thanks Rage.


Maybe I should clarify some before you get to it. Two cans of new and a half a can of the old..... Sorry.

Use the old first since the new formula is stronger and space it out so that you have enough to use two packets a day of the new formula each day for the last week.

weedlewott
11-03-09, 8:31 am
Use the old first since the new formula is stronger and space it out so that you have enough to use two packets a day of the new formula each day for the last week.

Got it. Checking in

-7lbs, 355g Pro, 150g Carbs, Appetitie 6, Don't know BF%. Won't be getting that checked for another couple weeks.

So far as the meals go, I went and bought some Gladware containers and have been bringing those along with me everywhere so I've got my food. I'm always hungry. It's a bitch to be around people eating Pizza, Biscuits, and all that good stuff, but I'm holding up. I think the big drop is mostly water weight along with a little bit of fat. I expect things to slow down next week as I can feel it. Water intake is at a gallon a day. I feel good overall, a little more tired than usual during the day, but not much. I've got all the energy in the world I could need in the gym because I'm hitting up Pump. Yay me. The routine is going great. I'm really enjoying mixing things up. I know one thing is for sure. I'm checking my ego more often because of the rep scheme. I dropped the weights a little so I can get the reps, but barely. I plan on hitting those reps for 15 with the same weights I was hitting 10 with pretty soon. Maybe next couple weeks or so. Cardio has been going well. I'm usually hitting about 30ish minutes in the morning and finishing up after my workout. It's just been busy so I've had to cut things shorter in the morning and get to going. Well... hope some of this helps. Thanks Rage.

Rage
11-03-09, 9:13 am
Got it. Checking in

-7lbs, 355g Pro, 150g Carbs, Appetitie 6, Don't know BF%. Won't be getting that checked for another couple weeks.

So far as the meals go, I went and bought some Gladware containers and have been bringing those along with me everywhere so I've got my food. I'm always hungry. It's a bitch to be around people eating Pizza, Biscuits, and all that good stuff, but I'm holding up. I think the big drop is mostly water weight along with a little bit of fat. I expect things to slow down next week as I can feel it. Water intake is at a gallon a day. I feel good overall, a little more tired than usual during the day, but not much. I've got all the energy in the world I could need in the gym because I'm hitting up Pump. Yay me. The routine is going great. I'm really enjoying mixing things up. I know one thing is for sure. I'm checking my ego more often because of the rep scheme. I dropped the weights a little so I can get the reps, but barely. I plan on hitting those reps for 15 with the same weights I was hitting 10 with pretty soon. Maybe next couple weeks or so. Cardio has been going well. I'm usually hitting about 30ish minutes in the morning and finishing up after my workout. It's just been busy so I've had to cut things shorter in the morning and get to going. Well... hope some of this helps. Thanks Rage.

Add 4 oz of top sirloin or chicken. Make sure you schedule in that cardio now because theres a lot more of that to come. It's what holds most people back from geting the most out of this.

weedlewott
11-03-09, 9:15 am
Add 4 oz of top sirloin or chicken. Make sure you schedule in that cardio now because theres a lot more of that to come. It's what holds most people back from geting the most out of this.

No problem. I can get that done too easy. I've just had a hectic schedule trying to get back in school. Registration starts today, so I'll be good to go in the morning. I've only missed the 45 twice, but did ten extra after my workout on those two days. Everything is on track for cardio now.

mritter3
11-03-09, 9:20 am
hey Rage just wanted to pop in and say thanks for everything you did for the iron contest i learned a lot about myself and how my body reacts to different things....great learning experience.....Im sitting around 203 right now, hoping to hit 220 for the arnold this year. Diet looks like this right now...

Meal one--7 eggs with 1 cup gr. beef mixed in, glass choc. milk
meal two--1/2 pound gr. turkey with rice
meal three--real gains shake
meal four--2 pieces of tilapia, 1 cup brocolli, 1 cup rice
meal five--real gains shake...also throwing in a bowl of kashi and yogurt before bed.

supps...keeping it simple, pak, shock therapy, storm, real gains, uniliver.

training is pretty similar to the routine you had us doing with some minor changes here and there.....your input would be great on this if you see something that needs to be changed or tweaked please let me know....thanks again for everything.

Matt.

Rage
11-03-09, 10:36 am
hey Rage just wanted to pop in and say thanks for everything you did for the iron contest i learned a lot about myself and how my body reacts to different things....great learning experience.....Im sitting around 203 right now, hoping to hit 220 for the arnold this year. Diet looks like this right now...

Meal one--7 eggs with 1 cup gr. beef mixed in, glass choc. milk
meal two--1/2 pound gr. turkey with rice
meal three--real gains shake
meal four--2 pieces of tilapia, 1 cup brocolli, 1 cup rice
meal five--real gains shake...also throwing in a bowl of kashi and yogurt before bed.

supps...keeping it simple, pak, shock therapy, storm, real gains, uniliver.

training is pretty similar to the routine you had us doing with some minor changes here and there.....your input would be great on this if you see something that needs to be changed or tweaked please let me know....thanks again for everything.

Matt.

Anytime Matt. I like your supp stack and you might want to consider replacing the chocolate milk and yogurt with something of more substance like yam..more rice..something along those lines. I think it's good to stay away from sugar in the forms of sucrose, fructose and lactose except on a cheat here and there.

mritter3
11-03-09, 10:43 am
thanks Rage, ill nix the milk and yogurt for some oats and potatoes....appreciate it.

Mr. Dead
11-03-09, 10:47 am
Rage...
What do you think of using chocolate milk post-workout, while on a bulk...??? (Especially when it's the quickest thing you can get your hands on, and have a 45-60 min commute home, from the gym...)

shortstack
11-03-09, 11:39 am
Hey Rage,

I think that were on the same page as far as the diet goes but I'm interested in what you think about the following. On days where I eat steak, or chicken for that matter, I'd like to throw it in a wrap to break up the monotony. I believe that you prefer we stay away from dairy but what about a tablespoon of sour cream and a little cheese in a wrap with lettuce and rice?

Also when replacing rice with a yam what qty do I need to replace for a 10oz yam? I'm not a big fan of white rice if brown is available so that should be a problem.

Thanks Rage..more anoying questions will follow as i get back into the bulk.

Shortstack

Rage
11-03-09, 3:23 pm
Rage...
What do you think of using chocolate milk post-workout, while on a bulk...??? (Especially when it's the quickest thing you can get your hands on, and have a 45-60 min commute home, from the gym...)

Hey Chris. Better to have something than nothing, but a better choice would be to have some Torrent or Real Gains powder in a shaker cup, add water, pound it and off you go.


Hey Rage,

I think that were on the same page as far as the diet goes but I'm interested in what you think about the following. On days where I eat steak, or chicken for that matter, I'd like to throw it in a wrap to break up the monotony. I believe that you prefer we stay away from dairy but what about a tablespoon of sour cream and a little cheese in a wrap with lettuce and rice?

Also when replacing rice with a yam what qty do I need to replace for a 10oz yam? I'm not a big fan of white rice if brown is available so that should be a problem.

Thanks Rage..more anoying questions will follow as i get back into the bulk.

Shortstack

Hey Jeremy. Lol, I welcome the questions and I'm looking forward to you getting on stage next year. 8 oz yam is around 50 grams and a half cup of white/brown rice is about 65 grams (uncooked), so you'll have to do the math on that one.

Mr. Dead
11-03-09, 3:27 pm
Hey Chris. Better to have something than nothing, but a better choice would be to have some Torrent or Real Gains powder in a shaker cup, add water, pound it and off you go.

I was considering that... The stuff clumps like crazy by the end of the day, though, and is a bitch to get dissolved... I'll switch over to Ultra Iso Whey, after the first of the year, when I get started on my prep...

Rage
11-03-09, 4:00 pm
I was considering that... The stuff clumps like crazy by the end of the day, though, and is a bitch to get dissolved... I'll switch over to Ultra Iso Whey, after the first of the year, when I get started on my prep...

There you go. Solid plan. About 5 grams of glutamine too.

weedlewott
11-03-09, 4:16 pm
Okay... Cambered Reverse Curls... Seated or standing? And Double arm DB Curls? Same question.

Rage
11-03-09, 4:24 pm
Okay... Cambered Reverse Curls... Seated or standing? And Double arm DB Curls? Same question.

Hey Cory. I prefer standing but you can also do them on a preacher. I also prefer to stand on DB Curls, but seated works just as good too. Vinny gave me a really good curling tip that I use now where you start with your palms facing out, not facing your side. Starting and finishing in that same position. I like that approach on DB Curls and it's easier standing up in my opinion.

weedlewott
11-03-09, 4:27 pm
Hey Cory. I prefer standing but you can also do them on a preacher. I also prefer to stand on DB Curls, but seated works just as good too. Vinny gave me a really good curling tip that I use now where you start with your palms facing out, not facing your side. Starting and finishing in that same position. I like that approach on DB Curls and it's easier standing up in my opinion.

Thanks Tom. I did them standing last night and kept my palms facing out on the DB Curls, but I was wondering since most of the exercises are specified seated or standing. I got a hell of a pump from the chest/bi routine last night by the way. I'm actually hurting today... Thanks for that.

NJC_Manhattan
11-03-09, 8:47 pm
Rage, how you doing my man?

Got some a bulking question for you. Talked with a trainer about gaining size and strength in my workouts and he suggested performing heavy compound movements and lower reps. For example...

Squats: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 235-285
Bench: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 235-255
Deadlifts: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 285-315
BB rows: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 185-225
Clean and press: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 100-135

Is this accurate? I looked at the yellow team's workouts/diet and that seems very effective, but I wanted to switch it up a bit.

Thanks in advance.

clifsgoals
11-03-09, 10:24 pm
Re-laps of flu this week. in bed for 3 days. Only hit cardio 3 times trying to sweat out the crap from my body. gained 2 lb. at 231 now. Was able to do first weight work out today since Thursday last week. hour cardio also. will be 100% soon I hope. Getting old being sick.
hunger bout a 5-6, really no appetite to speak of. Will return when I am better I am sure.
Thanks
Clif

Rage
11-04-09, 9:08 am
Thanks Tom. I did them standing last night and kept my palms facing out on the DB Curls, but I was wondering since most of the exercises are specified seated or standing. I got a hell of a pump from the chest/bi routine last night by the way. I'm actually hurting today... Thanks for that.

Nice. It's cool to change it up seated or standing from time to time.


Rage, how you doing my man?

Got some a bulking question for you. Talked with a trainer about gaining size and strength in my workouts and he suggested performing heavy compound movements and lower reps. For example...

Squats: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 235-285
Bench: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 235-255
Deadlifts: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 285-315
BB rows: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 185-225
Clean and press: enough weight to do about 4-6 reps for me thats about 100-135

Is this accurate? I looked at the yellow team's workouts/diet and that seems very effective, but I wanted to switch it up a bit.

Thanks in advance.

How's it going bro? Moving some heavy weight like that is going to produce some results. I like to stick to at least 8 to 10 reps to tap into more sarcoplasmic hyportrophy which is simply muscle size over strength. That routine looks a bit more like a powerlifting rep scheme.


Re-laps of flu this week. in bed for 3 days. Only hit cardio 3 times trying to sweat out the crap from my body. gained 2 lb. at 231 now. Was able to do first weight work out today since Thursday last week. hour cardio also. will be 100% soon I hope. Getting old being sick.
hunger bout a 5-6, really no appetite to speak of. Will return when I am better I am sure.
Thanks
Clif

Oh man, I feel for ya bro. Maybe try some Animal Pak a couple packets a day when your immune system is taxed like that. Lets not make any changes this week and give your body some time to recup.

weedlewott
11-04-09, 9:42 am
Nice. It's cool to change it up seated or standing from time to time.

Yep... My legs are feeling the quad work from last night too. I think I can feel myself adjusting nicely to the lower carbs. My energy levels are getting up a little bit. I've got everything adjusted now, so getting a steady schedule will be good to go. Do you have anything for flavor on the oats? Someone told me honey would be okay, but I thought I would ask. Thanks Tom.

Rage
11-04-09, 9:44 am
Yep... My legs are feeling the quad work from last night too. I think I can feel myself adjusting nicely to the lower carbs. My energy levels are getting up a little bit. I've got everything adjusted now, so getting a steady schedule will be good to go. Do you have anything for flavor on the oats? Someone told me honey would be okay, but I thought I would ask. Thanks Tom.

No honey. Splenda is a good sweetner. There's some other no calories syrups you can use sparingly.

weedlewott
11-04-09, 9:46 am
No honey. Splenda is a good sweetner. There's some other no calories syrups you can use sparingly.

Cool. Thanks. I'm not freaking over the flavoring things, I'm just curious. mix it up every now and again. Ha.

NJC_Manhattan
11-04-09, 10:07 am
How's it going bro? Moving some heavy weight like that is going to produce some results. I like to stick to at least 8 to 10 reps to tap into more sarcoplasmic hyportrophy which is simply muscle size over strength. That routine looks a bit more like a powerlifting rep scheme.



Going good my man. And thanks for the input. Ill keep that in mind

shortstack
11-05-09, 1:49 pm
At this point I'm looking to get in and out in about 60-90 minutes at the most. I'll still be running your schedule and wondered the following.

If I get a good warmup before I start each workout, will the first warm up be enough. See if what I have below would work or do you think I would need either more warmups of more working sets

Flat Bench
2-3 warmups
2 working sets

Incline Flyes
2 working sets

Decline Bench
2 working sets

Thanks Tom,
Jeremy

Rage
11-05-09, 3:04 pm
At this point I'm looking to get in and out in about 60-90 minutes at the most. I'll still be running your schedule and wondered the following.

If I get a good warmup before I start each workout, will the first warm up be enough. See if what I have below would work or do you think I would need either more warmups of more working sets

Flat Bench
2-3 warmups
2 working sets

Incline Flyes
2 working sets

Decline Bench
2 working sets

Thanks Tom,
Jeremy

Hey Jeremy. The only other area I would add one or two warm ups would be before the decline bench since your pushing some heavier weights there. Other than that, it looks totally solid to me.

InkdMuscle
11-05-09, 3:55 pm
Yo boss, I need a lil help here. I have a plateau on DB shoulder Presses. I do my warmupís then I hit the 100ís. The only thing Is on my first Set I cant hit no more the 10reps any more with them. After that first set with the 100ís I care barely squeeze out 4-5 reps on the next sets. So I just drop the weight to get in more reps. I cant break this plateau and I wanna keep lifting heavy to keep my shoulders growing.

What would you suggest on this?...

Rage
11-05-09, 4:44 pm
Yo boss, I need a lil help here. I have a plateau on DB shoulder Presses. I do my warmupís then I hit the 100ís. The only thing Is on my first Set I cant hit no more the 10reps any more with them. After that first set with the 100ís I care barely squeeze out 4-5 reps on the next sets. So I just drop the weight to get in more reps. I cant break this plateau and I wanna keep lifting heavy to keep my shoulders growing.

What would you suggest on this?...

Hey Nick. Try a warm up with 35's for 5 reps, 60's for 5 reps and then hit the 100's for 2 sets of 8. Once you get that, then try 2 sets of 10. If that doesn't work, then try SST with Forced Negatives with maybe the 80's.

Rage
11-06-09, 7:22 pm
B Con (Burt) and I were having a discussion about the differences between SST/FN and HIT. I'm going to share some of what we were talking about. While I personally believe they are both effective, they are different. The article that covers HIT opens with some comments from Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Rehabilitation out of Santa Monica, California and finishes with none other than Dr. Frederick C. Hatfield. I'm going to post this in three parts since it's so long. The last two parts are Hatfield.

SST/FN

The Technique; Chose a weight that is about 80% of your 1 rep max. Perform 8 reps emphasizing primarily the positive (concentric) portion of the rep. Then immediately begin emphasizing the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep with that same weight. While beginning the negative rep, have an experienced training partner begin to slowly increase the tension of the negative rep as you resist the weight (Forced Negative) at a steady rate of 5 counts till you have reached the end of the negative portion of the rep. Repeat this for a total of 3 more reps or a grand total of 12 between the 8 positive and 4 negative reps.

If your performing this technique it is most effective if you work the muscle only once per week.


HIT

IS HIGH INTENSITY TRAINING BEST?

High Intensity Training (H.I.T.) refers to the one set to failure type training program promoted as the most effective and scientifically based strength training program by such research scientists as Arthur Jones, Ellington Darden, and Matt Brzycki and by famous bodybuilder Mike Mentzer. In addition to recommending that the smallest possible number of sets be performed, another essential tenet of this training philosophy is that repetitions should all be performed in a slow, controlled fashion. It is argued that such low volume/high intensity training is the most effective way to increase both muscle size and strength. H.I.T. training is contrasted with volume training, where multiple sets of each exercise are performed, often with submaximal effort. Volume is the most common form of weight training program seen in gyms and fitness centers.

Since H.I.T. training is also recommended as the most effective program for improving athletic performance (by Matt Bryzcki and others), it is also often contrasted with high speed, explosive training. An example of explosive training would be doing power cleans and high pulls to improve leg and overall body power for football. Advocates of explosive training would argue that in order to train the muscles to contract strongly during the high speeds of athletic competition, high speed, explosive training is necessary. H.I.T. proponents would argue that using heavy weights, even while performing the repetitions slowly, will stimulate the fast twitch muscle fibers. This will carry ovedr to sports activities. They see high speed, explosive training as both dangerous (unnecessary loading of the joints) and ineffective (weights are sub-maximal and therefore not providing a high intensity enough contraction of the muscles to stimulate muscle growth).

H.I.T. is one of the most controversial training programs available. The following is a series of both pro and con discussions by various exercise science folks.

Rage
11-06-09, 7:23 pm
Dr. Fred Hatfield, aka Dr. Squat, starts the discussion with the following critique:


"HIT"

Frederick C. Hatfield, Ph.D., International Sports Science Association

HIT History:

It all started back in the early seventies with Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame. Arthur's chief mission, of course, was to sell equipment. His marketing plan was brilliant. My interpretation of his plan was that in order to sell his equipment (which for the day was quite expensive) he had to create a religion for the masses. To create a religion he needed 1) churches, 2) disciples, 3) a bible, and 4) clergy.

A scientist (Ellington Darden) wrote his bible, and (much later) a strength coach named Matt Brzycki put the Ten Commandments from that bible into lay language. The Ten Commandments are presented below. Then he paid a bunch of guys to follow the gospel (their test results were later incorporated into the bible). Later, a chosen few of them became his disciples.

The churches came next (Nautilus gyms sprang up all over the place... most are dead now, their respective flocks having flown the coop upon realizing that they were not making it to the promised land quickly enough -- in my humble opinion). His clergymen (gym owners) LOVED Arthur because he had really neat looking equipment and a way for them to rustle their clients in the front door and out the back real fast by convincing them that one set to failure was "the way."

The New HITters:

There is a small (but utterly vocal) band of Arthur Jones disciples who have, since the early seventies, clung desperately to the oft discredited notion that one high intensity set to failure is all you need to achieve your maximum potential in growing stronger or bigger. In fact, the contemporary interpretation (below) admits that one may profit from three sets, although one set is just as good as three. I say "desperately" for good reason.

These guys (who like to call each other "HIT Jedi") invested their hearts and souls (and, quite often, funds from their respective organizations) in the superiority of both Jones' equipment and his theories on how best to use it. Others have been or are "sponsored" by Arthur. It almost seems as if they are afraid of losing face (if not their jobs) if they were to back away from the tenets of the HIT theory now, despite the huge volume of scientific studies discrediting many of its tenets.

From a social-psychological view, it's utterly fascinating to watch the HIT men scramble. It brings to mind the great movie, "Lord of the Flies," in which a bunch of shipwrecked boys, left to their own devices, created a sort of Pagan society amongst themselves. Some of the Jedi who are more vocal than most, having written many passionate articles or books on their own cute little variants of the old Jones theory, bear mention. How they refer to each other as "Jedi" (which, I'm assured, means "priest") is yet more proof that HIT is a Pagan religion. I must say, however, I admire their zeal for lifting!

Meaning to cast no dispersion on these well-meaning gentlemen by identifying them to the readers on this list, and acknowledging that not all those listed may care to admit to their Pagan beliefs, here they are in alphabetical order (this is neither an exhaustive listing, nor is it mine -- it came from their web site):

Matt Brzycki (strength coach at Princeton University);
Ellington Darden, Ph.D. (Jones' longtime science advisor);
Ken Leistner, D.C. (New York chiro who runs a gym there);
Ken Mannie (strength coach at Michigan State);
Stuart McRobert (publishes a "Hardgainer" newsletter);
Mike Mentzer (former bodybuilder who fabricated his own "Heavy Duty" interpretation of Arthur's disproved tenets);
Dan Riley (strength coach of the Washington Redskins);
Rob Spector (keeper of a HIT web site); and
Wayne Westcott, Ph.D. (a YMCA fitness director)
Kim Wood (strength coach of the Cincinnati Bengals)

The Jedi also claim as disciples, bodybuilding converts such as Dorian Yates, Ray Mentzer and Casey Viator.

Just as Protestants split from Rome, some Jedi have gone their own way to create their own denominations of the HIT religion. The religious wrinkles provided by the various denominations after their split from Rome are quite interesting reading. I mentioned Mike Mentzer's "Heavy Duty" system of training is really no different than HIT with a few funky (read: "mystical") wrinkles added.

There's also the "Superslow" system created by the Protestant HIT Jedi Ken Hutchins, who actually provides a fitness trainer certification in his system (which can be yours for as little as $495.00). His peculiar wrinkle to HIT theory has to do with friction. Says he: "When you pull a trigger on a rifle or gun, you're supposed to pull with a slow, steady squeeze to the rear - if you jerk the trigger than the shot will be off. Same thing when lifting weights - each repetition should be a slow, steady squeeze of the muscle with no jerking. "...if an exercise has little friction, it's better to use a longer negative as you don't get the "partial respite" that you would from an exercise with lots of friction."

Now I'd like to introduce you to the HIT commandments and some pointed comments on each relative to some widely accepted laws of training.

The Ten HIT Commandments according to Jedi Brzycki:



1. Train With A High Level Of Intensity.

"Intensity," according to HIT dogma, "relates to the degree of the "inroads"--or amount of fatigue--you've made into your muscle at any given instant. In the weight room, a high level of intensity is characterized by performing an exercise to the point of concentric muscular failure: when you've exhausted your muscles to the extent that you literally cannot raise the weight for any more repetitions. Failure to reach a desirable level of intensity--or muscular fatigue--will result in little or no gains in functional strength or muscular size. After reaching concentric muscular failure, you can increase the intensity even further by performing 3 to 5 additional post-fatigue repetitions. These post-fatigue reps may be either negatives or regressions and will allow you to overload your muscles in a safe, efficient manner."

There is no question that going to failure can constitute a more "intense" workout. But, in the real world -- in the gym -- intensity is so much more than that. Webster defines intensity as having or showing the characteristic of strength, force, straining, or (relative to a bodybuilder's focal point) other aspects of his or her effort to a maximum degree. The words intense and intent both have the same Latin root, intendere "to stretch out." If one is intent on doing something, he does so, by definition, with strained or eager attention -- with concentration! That intensity of effort is largely a function of the mind is not this writer's opinion. It is true by definition as well as by practical usage of the word!

"Intensity" is increased by:

* amplification of mental effort -- getting "psyched"

* approaching your training with a burning passion, as though it were your LIFE

* adding reps

* adding weight

* decreasing rest between reps

* decreasing rest between sets

* increasing the number of exercises per body part

* increasing the total number of exercises or body parts trained at one session

* increasing the number of training sessions per day

* increasing the speed of movement

* increasing the amount of work done at the anaerobic threshold (maximum pain

tolerance)

* increasing the amount of eccentric work your muscles are required to perform.

Perhaps most importantly, going to failure is NOT a prerequisite to adaptation!



The SAID Principle is violated by the first commandment of HIT. Their idea is to go to failure all the time, but certain "specific" training objectives mitigate against it (e.g., speed training). And, the GAS Principle, which states that there must be a period of low intensity training or complete rest following periods of high intensity training, is violated. These guys go to failure all the time!

Rage
11-06-09, 7:24 pm
2. Attempt To Increase The Resistance Used Or The Repetitions Performed Every Workout.

"...every time you work out you should attempt to increase either the weight you use or the repetitions you perform in relation to your previous workout. This can be viewed as a "double progressive" technique (resistance and repetitions). Challenging your muscles in this manner will force them to adapt to the imposed demands (or stress)."

The SAID Principle is violated. Sometimes, lighter weights done rapidly is required. And sometimes heavier weights done for 3 reps is required. (If your training requires that you go to failure with a weight that's so heavy you can only do three reps, you are BEGGING for a MAJOR injury if that takes you to failure!) The GAS Principle is also violated. Alternating periods of high versus low intensity is a better way to go. If you wait until total recovery is accomplished in any given muscle, atrophy place.



3. Perform 1 To 3 Sets Of Each Exercise.

"...numerous research studies -- which I once again am probably viewed as dreaming up--have shown that there are no significant differences when performing either one, two or three sets of an exercise..."

Yep! You're dreaming pal! Dr. Richard Berger (my mentor during my doctoral studies at Temple) years ago showed that there IS a significant improvement in gains with three sets as opposed to one. Other studies have shown the same results. Nowadays, many athletes (bodybuilders included) do as many as 10 or more sets. Even Arthur Jones --the original HIT man --showed that people with white, fast-twitch muscles require fewer reps, sets and workouts per week than people with predominantly red, slow-twitch muscles.

Apparently, all HIT men are white muscle fiber guys? I think not! So, while none of the seven laws are violated here, some (especially the overload principle and the SAID principle) are not being applied to their maximum potential.



4. Reach Concentric Muscular Failure Within A Prescribed Number Of Repetitions.

"Repetition ranges differ from body part to body part and from coach to coach. In the course of training hundreds of collegiate athletes over the past eleven years, these are the ranges I usually assign: 15 to 20 (hip exercises), 10 to 15 (leg exercises) and 6 to 12 (upper body exercises). Other HIT strength coaches are pretty much in that neighborhood, with a few electing slightly lower ranges but not less than six."

Woah! You guys should be blushing on this one! The SAID principle as well as the principle of individual differences are quite specific in recognizing that not everyone is alike. Not everyone responds in the same way to any given rep/set scheme. Look again at my response to Commandment Three.



5. Perform Each Repetition With Proper Technique.

"A quality rep is performed by raising and lowering the weight in a deliberate, controlled manner. Lifting a weight in a rapid, explosive fashion is ill-advised for two reasons: (1) it exposes your muscles, joint structures and connective tissue to potentially dangerous forces which magnify the likelihood of an injury while strength training and (2) it introduces momentum into the movement which makes the exercise less productive and less efficient. Lifting a weight in about 1 to 2 seconds will guarantee that you're exercising in a safe, efficient manner. It should take about 3 to 4 seconds to lower the weight back to the starting/stretched position.

First, I grow weary of the HIT business of being "safe." Where in the book does it say that going slow and deliberate with a heavy weight is safer? I think otherwise. What about predisposing an athlete to greater harm on the playing field as a result of this sort of nonsensical preparatory training?

And, certainly, these slow, deliberate movements are not as effective as other methods in many instances. SOME reps are well performed in the manner described above. However, this commandment clearly disregards the importance of cheating movements, explosive lifting (e.g., the Olympic lifts), and many other techniques of lifting.

Further, slow, deliberate movements are nowhere NEAR as effective for forcing an adaptive response in connective tissues as are more explosive (and yes, often "ballistic") movements. So much for their claim to "safety!" Deinhibition of the Golgi tendon organ's protective feedback loop can be moved back far more effectively with controlled ballistic movements than with slow, deliberate movements. Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Overcompensation, Specificity and SAID principles.



6. Strength Train For No More Than One Hour Per Workout.

"If you are training with a high level of intensity--and you should--you literally cannot exercise for a long period of time. ...Training with a minimal amount of recovery time between exercises will elicit a metabolic conditioning effect that cannot be approached by traditional multiple set programs. Don't ask me why cause I've been makin' all this stuff up as I go along."

Ol' Jedi Brzycki continues to put his sandalled foot on top of his golden tongue. Here, I think (one can't really tell) he's claiming that doing one set of squats, then one set of benches, then one set of pulldowns, then one set of curls, and one set of 3, 4, 5 or so additional exercises, and you're outta the gym. C'mon!

Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Overcompensation, Specificity and SAID principles. Re-read my response to Commandment Three.

People are DIFFERENT!



7. Emphasize The Major Muscle Groups.

"The focal point for most of your exercises should be your major muscle groups (i.e. your hips, legs and upper torso)."

Oh? Have we lost sight of training weaknesses first? Bodybuilders know this instinctively. Most athletes do as well. Clearly, this commandment is in violation of the Specificity and SAID principles.



8. Whenever Possible, Work Your Muscles From Largest To Smallest.

"Exercise your hips first, then go to your legs (hams, quads and calves or dorsi flexors), upper torso (chest, upper back and shoulders), arms (biceps, triceps and forearms), abs and finally your low back."

Duhhhhh! Am I missing something? In the Eighth Commandment, you told us NOT to focus on smaller muscles! In addition to violating one of your own commandments, this commandment is in violation of the Specificity and SAID principles.



9. Strength Train 2 To 3 Times Per Week On Nonconsecutive Days.

"...a period of about 48 to 72 hours is necessary for muscle tissue to recover sufficiently from a strength workout. A period of at least 48 hours is also required to replenish your depleted carbohydrate stores.

...Performing any more than three sessions a week can gradually become counterproductive due to a catabolic effect. This occurs when the demands you have placed on your muscles have exceeded you recovery ability. Recovery time is adequate if you continue making gains."

Sometimes 48-72 hours is sufficient, and sometimes it's not. Depending upon the muscle involved it may be less or it may be more.

Remember:

* Big muscles take longer to recover than smaller ones

* Fast twitch muscles (your "explosive" muscles) take longer to recover than slow twitch muscle fibers ("endurance" muscles);

* Guys recover faster than girls;

* You recover faster from slow movements than from fast movements;

* You recover faster from low intensity training than from high intensity training.

* The older you get, the longer it takes to recover



By carbohydrate stores, do you mean glycogen? Not 48 hours...something closer to 2 or 3 hours! I, and every athlete I've ever trained, often trained twice a day! The Russian athletes do, the Bulgarian weightlifters train 3-6 times a day! And, even if there were (as Bryzcki put it) a "catabolic" effect, wouldn't that call for a "periodized approach to training?

Grand daddy laws violated with this one are the SAID, GAS and Specificity Principles.



10. Keep Accurate Records Of Your Performance.

"Records are a log of what you've accomplished during each and every strength session. Record keeping can be an extremely valuable tool to monitor progress and make your workouts more meaningful. It can also be used to identify exercises in which a plateau has been reached.

OK. I'll give the HIT men this one.

On the other hand, HIT folk will have to use their logs to refer back more often than other (non-HIT) trainees. They're bound to be hitting plateaus a lot more than others.

Jedi Bryzcki ended his "Sermon On The Web" with these words: "Don't be misled by the brevity or simplicity of a program that calls for one set of an exercise done with a high level of intensity.

Strength Coach Ken Mannie has stated that HIT is "the most productive, most efficient and without a doubt, the most demanding form of strength training known to man [and woman]." Of course, I read that in Nautilus magazine. And Mannie was drunk at the time."



Need I say more? Ł

To access the Sports Science News, edited by Dr. Hatfield, through which he can be contacted, see http://www.sportsci.org/ .

Rage
11-06-09, 7:51 pm
I personally like to do 2 working sets after warm ups for each exercise and 3 exercises on each bodypart for a total of 6 working sets with SST/FN on most body parts. I also don't do this technique on BB Squats or Deads. Not that you can't but personally, my lower back just gets too fatiqued. Ok, I think I've taken up enough room on this Forum tonight lol.

weedlewott
11-06-09, 8:01 pm
I personally like to do 2 working sets after warm ups for each exercise and 3 exercises on each bodypart for a total of 6 working sets with SST/FN on most body parts. I also don't do this technique on BB Squats or Deads. Not that you can't but personally, my lower back just gets too fatiqued. Ok, I think I've taken up enough room on this Forum tonight lol.

So... That was an awesome write up. It took me a while to read it. Thank you for taking the time to find/post/inform everyone of this who didn't know. I even got a couple laughs.

B Con
11-06-09, 8:39 pm
Wow. That was a really great read. Seriously. Glad I could help spark the debates/theories/literary exchanges with you Tom. Was great seeing the theory analyzed and examined as well in grave detail. Damn definitely a read that should be pinned in my honest opinion and thanks for taking the time to post it up. That would have been a really long text haha.



I personally like to do 2 working sets after warm ups for each exercise and 3 exercises on each bodypart for a total of 6 working sets with SST/FN on most body parts. I also don't do this technique on BB Squats or Deads. Not that you can't but personally, my lower back just gets too fatiqued. Ok, I think I've taken up enough room on this Forum tonight lol.

Though I don't have a worthy spotter/trainer on my training days, I have honestly enjoyed the lower volume approach with the 2 working sets after the warmups as well.

Every now and then I do throw in my own curve balls with drop sets, rest pauses, forced reps, supersets, etc.

I do believe the progress can speak for itself though.

Thanks for all you do Tom.

clifsgoals
11-07-09, 6:23 pm
Well not 100% yet but hitting it hard again. Not able to get pinch bmi done yet. Put new updated picture on my bb.com profile. (clifsgoals) Getting more lean looking than I ever have been. Would like to know when I need to go back to a gainer type program because I need more muscle I feel.

Thanks
clif

Rage
11-09-09, 1:39 pm
Well not 100% yet but hitting it hard again. Not able to get pinch bmi done yet. Put new updated picture on my bb.com profile. (clifsgoals) Getting more lean looking than I ever have been. Would like to know when I need to go back to a gainer type program because I need more muscle I feel.

Thanks
clif

Holy shit bro. Just took a look at your profile and damn! You leaned out very nicely and held on to your lean mass and arm size. Very impressive. Your call where you want to go from here bro. If you want to put on more size or continue to lean out or maintain, you've got my support. It's obvious your putting in the work. Proud of you.

clifsgoals
11-09-09, 10:47 pm
Rage,

Thanks, I think i want to continue leaning down because a goal I have is to see my abs before I turn 39 in January. May be vain, but it is a goal that inspires me to hit the gym every day. Then after b-day I will switch to a bulking phase. I just don't want to look "skinny" after loosing so much weight. Thanks again for the support and knowledge you share.

Clif

Rage
11-10-09, 9:25 am
Rage,

Thanks, I think i want to continue leaning down because a goal I have is to see my abs before I turn 39 in January. May be vain, but it is a goal that inspires me to hit the gym every day. Then after b-day I will switch to a bulking phase. I just don't want to look "skinny" after loosing so much weight. Thanks again for the support and knowledge you share.

Clif

Ok, you got it. lets do another 2 lber tomorrow and a cheat meal this weekend. Great work.

clifsgoals
11-10-09, 9:27 am
Rage,

Down to 226lb, lost 4 lb. hunger still around 5-6 out of 10. Cardio still 6 days a week for an hour. carbs in check. almost 100% again , breathing coming back from being sick. Animal pak 2 times a day is helping allot. thanks.

Clif

weedlewott
11-10-09, 9:56 am
Well, with what we discussed yesterday, I'll be starting that next week as I already have the stuff for this week.

-2lbs, app. 5-6, 382g Pro, 160g Carbs. sitting at 217

Workouts are going well. I'm getting good work done. Hitting the cardio first thing in the morning. 45 minutes. It's not a brisk walk, because I get bored as hell, so I do interval. I know you would rather me keep my heart rate at 120, but like I said, I get bored. Ha. That and I need to keep my time on the two mile down, and actually running helps me get that done. I'm starting Cuts/Stak today. So far as leaning out, it's going quite well. I feel leaner and I'm keeping all of my muscle weight from what I can tell. That's me. Thanks.

Rage
11-10-09, 10:09 am
Well, with what we discussed yesterday, I'll be starting that next week as I already have the stuff for this week.

-2lbs, app. 5-6, 382g Pro, 160g Carbs. sitting at 217

Workouts are going well. I'm getting good work done. Hitting the cardio first thing in the morning. 45 minutes. It's not a brisk walk, because I get bored as hell, so I do interval. I know you would rather me keep my heart rate at 120, but like I said, I get bored. Ha. That and I need to keep my time on the two mile down, and actually running helps me get that done. I'm starting Cuts/Stak today. So far as leaning out, it's going quite well. I feel leaner and I'm keeping all of my muscle weight from what I can tell. That's me. Thanks.

How many weeks have you been on the diet Cory?

weedlewott
11-10-09, 10:15 am
How many weeks have you been on the diet Cory?

This week starts the third week. The first week, I lost a lot of water weight. Mostly I believe it was the switch from 330 carbs a day to 160 and the amount of cardio.

Rage
11-10-09, 2:47 pm
This week starts the third week. The first week, I lost a lot of water weight. Mostly I believe it was the switch from 330 carbs a day to 160 and the amount of cardio.

Ok, lets do 2 lbs of yams tomorrow on top of your regular meals. Get that in before 4. Also have a cheat meal this Saturday for 30 minutes.

weedlewott
11-10-09, 3:17 pm
Ok, lets do 2 lbs of yams tomorrow on top of your regular meals. Get that in before 4. Also have a cheat meal this Saturday for 30 minutes.

Cool. Sounds great to me. Especially the Saturday thing. Lol.

InkdMuscle
11-10-09, 6:03 pm
Hey Nick. Try a warm up with 35's for 5 reps, 60's for 5 reps and then hit the 100's for 2 sets of 8. Once you get that, then try 2 sets of 10. If that doesn't work, then try SST with Forced Negatives with maybe the 80's.

Im still a lil confused about the SST w/forced negs. Maybe im trying to analyze it to much. Even after i read your breakdown with SST vs. HIT im still confused. Would u mind explaining it. I have shoulders tomorrow and i wanna try a new approach. Thanks boss.

Rage
11-10-09, 7:33 pm
Im still a lil confused about the SST w/forced negs. Maybe im trying to analyze it to much. Even after i read your breakdown with SST vs. HIT im still confused. Would u mind explaining it. I have shoulders tomorrow and i wanna try a new approach. Thanks boss.

Hey Nick. I'll take one of my favorite shoulder exercises to do SST/FN on and share an explanation. I'll walk it through the explanation I gave before on the technique..

SST/FN

The Technique; Chose a weight that is about 80% of your 1 rep max. (Ok, lets do seated side lateral raises. Choosing 80% of your max here would be a weight that you can raise slowly and hold at the top on each side. This greatly reduces the amount of weight you can use. Lets say big Nick can do 35 lbs as a 1 time max. That means that 80% would be 28 lbs, so lets use 25 lbs as the dB's your going to use). Perform 8 reps emphasizing primarily the positive (concentric) portion of the rep. (As you are reaching the 8th rep, your partner is going to be sitting on the bench right behind you. As you raise the weight up at the top on the 8th rep, hold it and have you partner push down on your wrists as you resist). Then immediately begin emphasizing the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep with that same weight. While beginning the negative rep, have an experienced training partner begin to slowly increase the tension of the negative rep as you resist the weight (Forced Negative) at a steady rate of 5 counts till you have reached the end of the negative portion of the rep. Repeat this for a total of 3 more reps or a grand total of 12 between the 8 positive and 4 negative reps. (By the time Nick reaches the last negative of the first set, your going to be fucking wasted. This technique will dig so far in there that you'll be surprised at just how light you have to go on some of your lifts).

Enjoy and let us know how it went.

InkdMuscle
11-10-09, 9:16 pm
Hey Nick. I'll take one of my favorite shoulder exercises to do SST/FN on and share an explanation. I'll walk it through the explanation I gave before on the technique..

SST/FN

The Technique; Chose a weight that is about 80% of your 1 rep max. (Ok, lets do seated side lateral raises. Choosing 80% of your max here would be a weight that you can raise slowly and hold at the top on each side. This greatly reduces the amount of weight you can use. Lets say big Nick can do 35 lbs as a 1 time max. That means that 80% would be 28 lbs, so lets use 25 lbs as the dB's your going to use). Perform 8 reps emphasizing primarily the positive (concentric) portion of the rep. (As you are reaching the 8th rep, your partner is going to be sitting on the bench right behind you. As you raise the weight up at the top on the 8th rep, hold it and have you partner push down on your wrists as you resist). Then immediately begin emphasizing the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep with that same weight. While beginning the negative rep, have an experienced training partner begin to slowly increase the tension of the negative rep as you resist the weight (Forced Negative) at a steady rate of 5 counts till you have reached the end of the negative portion of the rep. Repeat this for a total of 3 more reps or a grand total of 12 between the 8 positive and 4 negative reps. (By the time Nick reaches the last negative of the first set, your going to be fucking wasted. This technique will dig so far in there that you'll be surprised at just how light you have to go on some of your lifts).

Enjoy and let us know how it went.

Thats the best explanation since sliced bread. Thanks boss. I will let you now how it goes.

Greek Elite
11-11-09, 12:59 am
hey rage I been doing your bulk program and have seen great progress n strength increases, but cuz of a potential vacation I want to do a little mini-cut for 3-4 weeks right after thanksgiving

should I just jump right into your diet and workout routine for that or transition over or what?

Rage
11-11-09, 9:08 am
hey rage I been doing your bulk program and have seen great progress n strength increases, but cuz of a potential vacation I want to do a little mini-cut for 3-4 weeks right after thanksgiving

should I just jump right into your diet and workout routine for that or transition over or what?

Hey bro. Thats awesome. First thing you need to do is get my ticket and book a hotel room for me cause I need a vacation too lol. Seriously though...you can make the transition into the training routine and diet no problem. Give me some beginning stats like weight, height, bf if you know it and check in with me from week to week and we'll get you locked on brother.

weedlewott
11-11-09, 9:39 am
I'm angry with you... Thought I'd share that... I have a 3 hour assembly this morning. Which means I shall be stuffing Yams down my throat pretty much at a non stop... Thanks Tom... Thanks.

Ha. Thought I'd let you know... I can actually see my gut going away. I can tell when i turn to the side. I'm thick at the top and "thin" at the bottom from the side. V-Taper is also becoming more prominent... Yep...

Rage
11-11-09, 9:48 am
I'm angry with you... Thought I'd share that... I have a 3 hour assembly this morning. Which means I shall be stuffing Yams down my throat pretty much at a non stop... Thanks Tom... Thanks.

Ha. Thought I'd let you know... I can actually see my gut going away. I can tell when i turn to the side. I'm thick at the top and "thin" at the bottom from the side. V-Taper is also becoming more prominent... Yep...

Lol...vent brother vent. It doesn't take long at all to start seeing some results when you follow that diet to the tee. Awesome work Cory.

weedlewott
11-11-09, 9:57 am
Lol...vent brother vent. It doesn't take long at all to start seeing some results when you follow that diet to the tee. Awesome work Cory.

Ha ha. It was more of a joke. I'm not really put out by it at all. I mean, it's a Veterans Day Assembly, so I'm cool with it. Get to put the Greens back on anyway. I've already smashed 8oz anyway. I'm on track.

Rage
11-11-09, 10:07 am
Ha ha. It was more of a joke. I'm not really put out by it at all. I mean, it's a Veterans Day Assembly, so I'm cool with it. Get to put the Greens back on anyway. I've already smashed 8oz anyway. I'm on track.

And on that note, thank you very much for your service. We share a powerful bond as I was in the Air Force back in the day and launched ICBM test missiles (Minuteman and Peacekeeper) up at Vandenburg. I was on the Minuteman side. 70 foot tall fucking beast of a weapon. Capable of storing 3 nuclear warheads. They've been in the arsenal for over 50 years, thank God we've never had to use them.

Keep up the good work bro, both in the gym and for our country.

fatbackgoal
11-11-09, 4:52 pm
Ok after falling off the wagon a bit I am back on it. Next two goals are:

1- The Cage
2- UPA Iowa/Midwest championships doing the push/pull competition

You know my ultimate goal for October 2010 (submasters, novice, open, overall). I am currently on the Wendler 5/3/1 and completing my first cycle. I have started the M-Stak and feel pretty good. Weight actually got back up to 300 but have brought it back to 288. Gonna stick with the basic diet with cardio, but on the weekends will be using sleds, flipping tires and sandbags. I hesitate to throw a number out for the Arnold but would have to say if I am 250 and ready for a precontest prep that will not take anything drastic I will be happy. What's the plan?

Firedrake
11-11-09, 4:56 pm
And on that note, thank you very much for your service. We share a powerful bond as I was in the Air Force back in the day and launched ICBM test missiles (Minuteman and Peacekeeper) up at Vandenburg. I was on the Minuteman side. 70 foot tall fucking beast of a weapon. Capable of storing 3 nuclear warheads. They've been in the arsenal for over 50 years, thank God we've never had to use them.

Keep up the good work bro, both in the gym and for our country.

. . . and thanks for YOUR service, my brother! (Even if you were in the blue PJs . . . <grin>)

Mr. Dead
11-11-09, 5:07 pm
. . . and thanks for YOUR service, my brother! (Even if you were in the blue PJs . . . <grin>)

x2... Did ya notice he got a lot bigger, AFTER he got out of the Air Farce... *LOL* J/K, boss...

weedlewott
11-11-09, 7:23 pm
. . . and thanks for YOUR service, my brother! (Even if you were in the blue PJs . . . <grin>)

Yep... Thank you much. It's people such as yourself, who served before, who gave me the inspiration to do what I needed to do.

And yes, Chris, I noticed... I'm curious as to how it's going to go down after I get out if that's the case. lol.

Rage
11-11-09, 8:06 pm
Ok after falling off the wagon a bit I am back on it. Next two goals are:

1- The Cage
2- UPA Iowa/Midwest championships doing the push/pull competition

You know my ultimate goal for October 2010 (submasters, novice, open, overall). I am currently on the Wendler 5/3/1 and completing my first cycle. I have started the M-Stak and feel pretty good. Weight actually got back up to 300 but have brought it back to 288. Gonna stick with the basic diet with cardio, but on the weekends will be using sleds, flipping tires and sandbags. I hesitate to throw a number out for the Arnold but would have to say if I am 250 and ready for a precontest prep that will not take anything drastic I will be happy. What's the plan?

I looked over that Wendler 5/3/1 program and it looks pretty cool. There are so many heavy lifts there that I'm not sure how your going to cut AND get the most out of that program unless your doing the bodybuilding routine. I do know that my brother HIGA MONSTER can help you a lot with sleds, flipping tires and sandbags. Thats right up his training alley. When is the UPA?


. . . and thanks for YOUR service, my brother! (Even if you were in the blue PJs . . . <grin>)

Lol..BDU's mostly.


x2... Did ya notice he got a lot bigger, AFTER he got out of the Air Farce... *LOL* J/K, boss...

No more waivers to get from PT anymore lol.


Yep... Thank you much. It's people such as yourself, who served before, who gave me the inspiration to do what I needed to do.

And yes, Chris, I noticed... I'm curious as to how it's going to go down after I get out if that's the case. lol.

Amen brother...you can get as big as you want!

mscuillo
11-12-09, 1:26 am
Rage, how's it going big guy?!! Your training looks sick and you seem to be making great progress; congrats and keep pushin forward! I just finished up a 6 week split of 10x10, followed a 4 week split of periodization training (pyramids/drops/etc...). Next week is the new week. I was thinking of going to the 10x6 split for 6 weeks. Is that a good idea, or would you recommend keeping the periodization training? I'm currently pounding Pak/Stak/Storm. I'm up to 196 from my contest weight of 176 10 weeks ago and my bf% is still around 8%-9%. Let me know your thoughts please! Thanks man, Mike

Rage
11-12-09, 9:50 am
Rage, how's it going big guy?!! Your training looks sick and you seem to be making great progress; congrats and keep pushin forward! I just finished up a 6 week split of 10x10, followed a 4 week split of periodization training (pyramids/drops/etc...). Next week is the new week. I was thinking of going to the 10x6 split for 6 weeks. Is that a good idea, or would you recommend keeping the periodization training? I'm currently pounding Pak/Stak/Storm. I'm up to 196 from my contest weight of 176 10 weeks ago and my bf% is still around 8%-9%. Let me know your thoughts please! Thanks man, Mike

This is an approach I believe in completely. Periodization. Changing it up in realistic intervals and always keeping the body guessing. If I had to guess, I would say you know exactly who Jim Stoppani is. Master of periodization programs. IMO your weight and bf are completely in check and your 100% on point. This is intelligent bodybuilding. To maximize sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, I would just keep any reps in the 8 min to 15 max range. You know I'm more of a low volume type of guy advocating a max of 8 sets on off season per bodypart. Not as low as HIT, but not high volume. If you've got a reliable training partner, try SST/FN for a couple months and let me know what you think. Sup stak is locked on brother.

fatbackgoal
11-12-09, 11:03 am
[QUOTE=ragingmuscle;842032]I looked over that Wendler 5/3/1 program and it looks pretty cool. There are so many heavy lifts there that I'm not sure how your going to cut AND get the most out of that program unless your doing the bodybuilding routine. I do know that my brother HIGA MONSTER can help you a lot with sleds, flipping tires and sandbags. Thats right up his training alley. When is the UPA?

The UPA is March 27-28. I am going to do the bodybuilding routine then was wondering if I should switch to something more powerlifting oriented in January.

Rage
11-12-09, 4:42 pm
[QUOTE=ragingmuscle;842032]I looked over that Wendler 5/3/1 program and it looks pretty cool. There are so many heavy lifts there that I'm not sure how your going to cut AND get the most out of that program unless your doing the bodybuilding routine. I do know that my brother HIGA MONSTER can help you a lot with sleds, flipping tires and sandbags. Thats right up his training alley. When is the UPA?

The UPA is March 27-28. I am going to do the bodybuilding routine then was wondering if I should switch to something more powerlifting oriented in January.

I would suggest you put all your energy into the UPA meet. Dieting up to that point is going to weaken your lifts. After that, I think we should really buckle down and get you on stage.

Rage
11-12-09, 4:43 pm
SPLIT SET TRAINING WITH FORCED NEGATIVE REPS (SST/FN)
By Tom ďRageĒ Fuller

Iíd like to share with my Animal brothers, a training technique Iíve been developing and that is now backed by The Institute of Sports Science And Athletic Conditioning.. The reason I am sharing it is because it has worked extremely well for me personally along with many others and I feel my mission is to help as many of my fellow brothers as I can by sharing what I know and what has worked for me and countless others. Keep in mind that this technique is designed solely to increase muscle size and not strength.
So without further delay, letís get into it.
The Technique; Chose a weight that is about 80% of your 1 rep max. Perform 8 reps emphasizing primarily the positive (concentric) portion of the rep. Then immediately begin emphasizing the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep with that same weight. While beginning the negative rep, have an experienced training partner begin to slowly increase the tension of the negative rep as you resist the weight (Forced Negative) at a steady rate of 5 counts till you have reached the end of the negative portion of the rep. Repeat this for 3 more reps or a grand total of 12 between the 8 positive and 4 negative reps.
When performing this technique it is most effective if you work the muscle only once per week as it will need plenty of time for recovery. This training method, while effective, should be used as part of a normal periodization program and not year round.
This next section is a more in depth review of how and why this technique is effective.

Institute Of Sports Science And Athletic Conditioning
Review of SST/FN
By Founder and President
Michael S. Palmieri

Although Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and Myofibrillar hypertrophy can never be completely separated, an individual can focus training on one over another. The theory behind Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is that by forcing the muscle fibers to exert force to a certain level of exhaustion, it conditions the body to compel the muscles to increase the storage of necessary nutrients in order to maintain the required levels of energy to sustain the needed levels of force. Increases in stored levels of glycogen, ATP, Calcium, CHOs, CP, etc., lends to the increase in the size of the Sarcomere, without a corresponding increase in contractile proteins. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy also alters the osmotic gradient across the cell, that is, fluid flows into the cell to reestablish it. In turn, the cells swell, thereby increasing total muscle size.
One of the most productive means to induce Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is eccentric training. It is known that if the same force is exerted during the concentric phase of the lift as in the eccentric phase, fewer muscle fibers are activated while the muscle lengthens. Because of this, eccentric contractions allow greater overall force production in addition to less fiber recruitment, which means the fibers are stressed more.
Because of this difference in fiber activation and utilization, a typical pyramid loading method may not be the most effective in the development of muscle. The torque generated by the eccentric load is greater than during the concentric contraction. In regards to typical resistance training, both types of contractions are involved, and, therefore, the concentric contraction limits the performance of the muscle; hence the amount of load that can be used is also limited. Similarly, since the intensity of exercise is reliant on the magnitude of the load relative to maximum capabilities, it is logical to assume that the concentric phase is the variable that experiences the greater stress, and therefore the greater adaptation (Hortobagyi and Katch 1990).
Eccentric contractions are generally believed to induce greater gains by providing a greater training stimulus because there are greater forces associated with them. This fact may lead someone to believe that training eccentrically exclusively would be the best choice for the best gains. This, however, is not the total case. The size of the force relative to the maximum is what determines training stimulus, not the absolute force. Many studies show that concentric-only and eccentric-only programs yield similar gains in strength and work capacity. It seems that programs that include both provide the greatest results, rather than programs that are exclusive of one or the other (Dudley, et al 1991; Colliander and Tesch 1990; Godard, et al 1998). Alternatively, some studies have shown that an increase in peak torque in a concentric/eccentric exercise is greater after training with eccentric-only contractions (Higbie, et al 1996). These seemingly contradictive characteristics of eccentric contractions can be attributed to the following characteristics:
1. Cross-Bridge Activity: The high amount of stresses associate with eccentric training may actually lead to a mechanical disruption of the chemical actin/myosin bond in contrast to the systematic binding of ATP. Because there are less total number of contractile proteins during eccentric movements, as well as the amount of overlapping among sarcomeres, the maximum force that each sarcomere can exert varies along the length of a muscle. Therefore, each sarcomere is stretched and then popped as it reaches its stress limit during the lengthening of a muscle, that is, the eccentric motion (Morgan 1990; Morgan and Allen 1999).
2. Motor Unit Activity: Synchronization among motor units is increased during eccentric movements, and the proportion of common input to pairs of motor units is greater as well (Semmler, et al 2000).
3. Maximality of Activation: Muscle force is greater during a voluntary eccentric phase; however, EMG is substantially less than during concentric. This implies that an individual is unable to maximally activate a muscle during an eccentric phase (Higbie, et al 1996; Nakazawa, et al 1993; Kellis and Baltzopoulos 1998; Pasquet, et al 2000; Tesch, et al 1990; Webber and Kriellaars 1997; Westing, et al 1991).
4. Hypertrophy: Eccentric movements may be a more effective stimulus for hypertrophy, which might be mediated by a differential control (transcription verses translation) of protein synthesis (Booth and Baldwin 1996; Williams and Neufer 1996; Wong and Booth 1990).
We can see by this research that an effective training method could be developed as followed: In order to facilitate intracellular fluid depletion, total volume is more important than volume per set. In a concentric/eccentric movement, the load should be about 80% 1RM, and 60-80 total reps per body part. Remember, we are not going for complete and total failure of the muscle tissue.
After this, it is necessary to condition the body to increase the levels of intracellular fluid storage by increasing the demand of these substrates, as mentioned before. This is done with an eccentric-only phase; the load for this segment should be about 100-140% 1RM, and reps should stay between 3-5 reps per set. This is why that a training regimen similar to the Split Set Training with Forced Negative Reps can be an effective hypertrophy program.
This type of training, however, can be very intense, and serious injury can result if it is not done properly by an experienced lifter with a coach or a reliable training partner present. Also, proper diet and nutrition is of vital importance if an athlete is to increase and maintain the levels of the intracellular substrates, thereby increasing and maintaining the size of the sarcomeres.

Michael S. Palmieri
Michael is the founder and president of The Institute of Sport Science & Athletic Conditioning (ISSAC), a Las Vegas, NV based research, testing, and training firm. He is a Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) from the National Strength & Conditioning Association (NSCA), a USAW Sports Performance Coach, which he received while attending the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, CO., and a board member of the sports nutrition company, Maximum Overdrive. A former powerlifter, Michael has been in the industry for over twenty years, and is currently pursuing his Masters degree as a Biomechanics graduate student in the Department of Kinesiology at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas (UNLV). Michael's current research involves evaluating changes in force and power production as a result of muscular fatigue during high intensity anaerobic exercises.

Here are a couple of sample routines using SST/FN
SST/FN
SPLIT SET TRAINING WITH FORCED NEGATIVE REPS
BULKING ROUTINE
Only working sets are listed.


Day 1 - Arms:

Close Grip Bench 2 x 8+4
One Arm Machine Tricep Ext 2 x 8+4
Lying DB Triceps Ext 2 x 8+4
Standing DB Curls 2 x 8+4
DB Preacher Curls 2 x 8+4
Reverse Curls 2 x 8+4
Forward and Reverse Wrist Curls 3 x 15 each
Abs 1 x 100 each side

Day 2 - Quads, Hamstrings

Leg Extension 2 x 8+4
Leg Press 2 x 8+4
Hack Squats 2 x 8+4
Hamstring Raises 2 x 8+4
Standing Leg Curls 2 x 8+4

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Chest & Shoulders:

BB/Smith or DB Press 2 x 8+4
Incline Smith or DB Flyes 2 x 8+4
Pec Dec 2 x 8+4
DB or Smith Military Press 2 x 8+4
Side Laterals 2 x 8+4
Barbell Shrugs 2 x 8+4
Abs 1 x 100 each side

Day 5 - Back, Rear Delts and Calves:

Wide Grip Pull Ups 2 x 8+4
Deadlift 2 x 10
Narrow Grip Pull Downs 2 x 8+4
Reverse Pec Dec or Bent Laterals 2 x 8+4
Calf Extensions 2 x 8+4
Calf Raises 2 x 8+4

Day 6 & 7 - Off
SST/FN
SPLIT SET TRAINING WITH FORCED NEGATIVE REPS
CUTTING ROUTINE
Only working sets are listed.


Day 1 - Arms:
Week A
Close Grip Bench 2 x 8+4
One Arm Machine Tricep Ext 2 x 8+4
Lying DB Triceps Ext 1 x 8+4
Standing DB Curls 2 x 8+4
DB Preacher Curls 1 x 8+4
Reverse Curls 2 x 8+4
Forward and Reverse Wrist Curls 3 x 15 each
Abs 3 x 100 each side

Week B
Partial Dips 2 x 8+4
Pull Downs 2 x 8+4
Overhead DB Ext. 1 x 8+4
Incline DB Curls 2 x 8+4
Lying Machine Curls 1 x 8+4
DB Hammers 2 x 8+4
Forward and Reverse Wrist Curls 3 x 15 each
Abs 3 x 100 each side

Day 2 - Quads, Hamstrings

Leg Extension 2 x 8+4
Leg Press 2 x 8+4
Hack Squats 2 x 8+4
Hamstring Raises 2 x 8+4
Standing Leg Curls 2 x 8+4

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Chest & Shoulders:

Week A
DB Press 2 x 8+4
DB Flyes 2 x 8+4
Pec Dec 1 x 8+4
Smith Military Press 2 x 8+4
Side Laterals 2 x 8+4
Barbell Shrugs 2 x 8+4
Abs 3 x 100 each side

Week B
Flat Smith 2 x 8+4
Incline Smith 2 x 8+4
Pec Dec 1 x 8+4
DB Military 2 x 8+4
Side Laterals 2 x 8+4
DB Shrugs 2 x 8+4
Abs 3 x 100 each side

Day 5 - Back, Rear Delts and Calves:

Week A
Wide Grip Pull Ups 2 x 8+4
Deadlift 2 x 10
Narrow Grip Pull Downs 2 x 8+4
Reverse Pec Dec or Bent Laterals 2 x 8+4
Calf Extensions 2 x 8+4
Calf Raises 2 x 8+4

Week B
Wide Grip Pullups 2 x 8+4
T Bar Rows 2 x 8+4
Straight Arm Pulldowns 2 x 8+4
Incline Rear Delt Raises 2 x 8+4
Calf Extensions 2 x 8+4
Calf Raises 2 x 8+4

Day 6 & 7 - Off

For a discussion: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=28456

Firedrake
11-12-09, 4:50 pm
Interesting -- the order of exercises looks a lot like stuff you've used before, but the technique makes it a lot more intense, I'm thinking.

You show only working sets. What's the warmup, how many sets with what percentage?

Rage
11-12-09, 5:04 pm
Interesting -- the order of exercises looks a lot like stuff you've used before, but the technique makes it a lot more intense, I'm thinking.

You show only working sets. What's the warmup, how many sets with what percentage?

Hey jim. Same as what you would normally use to warm up. For example, say on DB Press, maybe the 60lbers for 5, 80 lbers for 5, 100 lbers for 5 and then hit 2 working sets. Something along those lines.

Firedrake
11-12-09, 5:14 pm
Hey jim. Same as what you would normally use to warm up. For example, say on DB Press, maybe the 60lbers for 5, 80 lbers for 5, 100 lbers for 5 and then hit 2 working sets. Something along those lines.

SO, just straight reps on the warmup. Okay.

Still gotta find a partner who'd want to do this . . . <grin>

fatbackgoal
11-12-09, 8:04 pm
[QUOTE=fatbackgoal;842285]

I would suggest you put all your energy into the UPA meet. Dieting up to that point is going to weaken your lifts. After that, I think we should really buckle down and get you on stage.


What eating program should I follow? The basic diet you had me on earlier?

Rage
11-12-09, 8:28 pm
SO, just straight reps on the warmup. Okay.

Still gotta find a partner who'd want to do this . . . <grin>

Well we will partner up on Saturday and unleash ah whippin on back.


[QUOTE=ragingmuscle;842532]


What eating program should I follow? The basic diet you had me on earlier?

Hey Rod. From what I remember, your a bit carb sensative so I would set your protein at about 350 and your carbs at 200. Let me know from week to week what your weight does. Train your ass off for that meet. I want to see some big numbers out of you big guy!

Greek Elite
11-12-09, 8:48 pm
Hey bro. Thats awesome. First thing you need to do is get my ticket and book a hotel room for me cause I need a vacation too lol. Seriously though...you can make the transition into the training routine and diet no problem. Give me some beginning stats like weight, height, bf if you know it and check in with me from week to week and we'll get you locked on brother.

haha well its in the works, but either way i need a cut every so often cuz im cal/carb sensitive. Right now sitting at 195-ish, 5'9", no idea about bodyfat but I would guess 13-14%. I did your bulk routine at around 2500 cals, and was going to follow your early/low-carb diet that you set for the Red Team, and the workout routine too.. I usually cut at like 1800 cals, and probabl just going to use EC or even Animal Cuts (old version) since its a mini cut for 3 weeks or so

bleghh not lookin forward to the cardio :(

Rage
11-13-09, 9:18 am
haha well its in the works, but either way i need a cut every so often cuz im cal/carb sensitive. Right now sitting at 195-ish, 5'9", no idea about bodyfat but I would guess 13-14%. I did your bulk routine at around 2500 cals, and was going to follow your early/low-carb diet that you set for the Red Team, and the workout routine too.. I usually cut at like 1800 cals, and probabl just going to use EC or even Animal Cuts (old version) since its a mini cut for 3 weeks or so

bleghh not lookin forward to the cardio :(

Looking forward to working with you brother!

fatbackgoal
11-13-09, 9:31 am
Hey Rod. From what I remember, your a bit carb sensative so I would set your protein at about 350 and your carbs at 200. Let me know from week to week what your weight does. Train your ass off for that meet. I want to see some big numbers out of you big guy!


Will do. Am going to write out how I will space things out and don't know if I told you but will follow the Wendler 5/3/1 bodybuilding model. In January will probably switch to something a little more powerlifting centered but for right now I think this will help the body get acclimated.

clifsgoals
11-17-09, 8:12 am
Rage,

Down 1 lb to 225. cardio same, doing 5-6 days of 45-60 minutes. carb still in check, keeping them under 125gms. hunger 6 out of 10.

thanks
clif

weedlewott
11-17-09, 8:42 am
-3lbs, 3-4 app, 382g Pro, 160g Carbs.
Start- 226
Week 2 - 219
Week 3 - 217
Week 4 - 214

Those are my numbers at each weigh in. Today starts me off on week 4. I didn't cheat Saturday, because as of Thursday, I have had zero appetite, but still ate. Just a lot of family things, nothing to do with the diet itself. So no worries there. Still sitting at 45 minutes cardio, which is all good to go. So far, the only adjustment we've made is adding 4oz of chicken/sirloin, but there's the diet we talked about that comes in at the same macro count, a few less calories. Feeling really good all around. Numbers are going up, I'm feeling stronger with the reps, so yeah. I haven't done a body fat test, but it's going down from what I can tell. I'm actually "seeing" the changes, which is a rarity for me. That's what I've got. Thanks Tom.

Rage
11-17-09, 9:28 am
Rage,

Down 1 lb to 225. cardio same, doing 5-6 days of 45-60 minutes. carb still in check, keeping them under 125gms. hunger 6 out of 10.

thanks
clif

Keep cardio at a steady 60 minutes per day for six days. Reduce carbs to 100 grams.

Rage
11-17-09, 9:31 am
-3lbs, 3-4 app, 382g Pro, 160g Carbs.
Start- 226
Week 2 - 219
Week 3 - 217
Week 4 - 214

Those are my numbers at each weigh in. Today starts me off on week 4. I didn't cheat Saturday, because as of Thursday, I have had zero appetite, but still ate. Just a lot of family things, nothing to do with the diet itself. So no worries there. Still sitting at 45 minutes cardio, which is all good to go. So far, the only adjustment we've made is adding 4oz of chicken/sirloin, but there's the diet we talked about that comes in at the same macro count, a few less calories. Feeling really good all around. Numbers are going up, I'm feeling stronger with the reps, so yeah. I haven't done a body fat test, but it's going down from what I can tell. I'm actually "seeing" the changes, which is a rarity for me. That's what I've got. Thanks Tom.

Increase cardio to 60 minutes. Reduce carbs to 125 grams. 2 lbs tomorrow.

Rage
11-17-09, 9:32 am
Rage,

Down 1 lb to 225. cardio same, doing 5-6 days of 45-60 minutes. carb still in check, keeping them under 125gms. hunger 6 out of 10.

thanks
clif

2 lbs tomorrow.

weedlewott
11-17-09, 9:36 am
Increase cardio to 60 minutes. Reduce carbs to 125 grams. 2 lbs tomorrow.

Okay. Too easy.. I can get that done. Question for you though. What is the purpose behind the carb spikes? I realize they work, I'm just wondering why.

Rage
11-17-09, 10:01 am
Okay. Too easy.. I can get that done. Question for you though. What is the purpose behind the carb spikes? I realize they work, I'm just wondering why.

It's like adding wood to the furnace. Have to feed the fire. Your metabolism needs a boost after being in a state of low carb.

weedlewott
11-17-09, 10:29 am
It's like adding wood to the furnace. Have to feed the fire. Your metabolism needs a boost after being in a state of low carb.

Okay. I get the concept now. Keeping your metaboism guessing in a way? My other question is how do you determine when you spike and how much to do?

Rage
11-17-09, 2:54 pm
Okay. I get the concept now. Keeping your metaboism guessing in a way? My other question is how do you determine when you spike and how much to do?

I go primarily by what your apettite is doing. Your metabolism slows, the longer you are in a state of low carb, so we have to rev it back up by feeding it some good clean carbs.

weedlewott
11-17-09, 4:07 pm
I go primarily by what your apettite is doing. Your metabolism slows, the longer you are in a state of low carb, so we have to rev it back up by feeding it some good clean carbs.

I see. So by going on how you feel through the day when it comes to hunger, you judge a spike? And the slower it, the more you take in? I want to get this right.

Rage
11-17-09, 4:50 pm
I see. So by going on how you feel through the day when it comes to hunger, you judge a spike? And the slower it, the more you take in? I want to get this right.

The better your apettite, the larger the carb spike.

InkdMuscle
11-17-09, 8:57 pm
Ok boss if im keeping my carbs around 100g a day while im cutting. what would u suggest for a spike 3lbs like b4?

Rage
11-18-09, 9:06 am
Ok boss if im keeping my carbs around 100g a day while im cutting. what would u suggest for a spike 3lbs like b4?

Ah oh, big Nick is looking to get ripped? Wait a minute, Thanksgiving is right around the corner. You sure about this? Send me a pm and let me know what you've got in mind brother.

fatbackgoal
11-18-09, 10:54 am
Rage,

I think I am going to hang around the 280 mark getting ready for this meet. Lifts are feeling real good and having success with the M-Stak. I think I am going to add the BigAnt drink to my workouts.

InkdMuscle
11-18-09, 11:00 am
Ah oh, big Nick is looking to get ripped? Wait a minute, Thanksgiving is right around the corner. You sure about this? Send me a pm and let me know what you've got in mind brother.

PM sent boss.

Rage
11-18-09, 12:52 pm
Rage,

I think I am going to hang around the 280 mark getting ready for this meet. Lifts are feeling real good and having success with the M-Stak. I think I am going to add the BigAnt drink to my workouts.

Hey Rod. Nice stuff bro. Looking forward to seeing how you do. Anthony has a damn good drink he's put together there bro, so that's a good addition to the mix.

Mr. Dead
11-18-09, 1:05 pm
Come January, will I be going straight into the 4 day rotation of 40g followed by 100g of carbs, or will it be dependent on my pics...???

Rage
11-18-09, 1:33 pm
Pics and an accurate bf will give me a good starting point. Have you been able to find a place to get dipped?

Mr. Dead
11-18-09, 1:35 pm
Pics and an accurate bf will give me a good starting point. Have you been able to find a place to get dipped?

Still workin' on it...

Mr. Dead
11-18-09, 2:18 pm
Pics and an accurate bf will give me a good starting point. Have you been able to find a place to get dipped?


Still workin' on it...

I do have a lead on one, though... My goddaughter said that she thinks she saw something for a traveling unit... She's going to get me more info, the next time she's there...

Rage
11-18-09, 6:25 pm
I do have a lead on one, though... My goddaughter said that she thinks she saw something for a traveling unit... She's going to get me more info, the next time she's there...

I think Matt (Q) uses that one too. Hit him up on that because I think he has there schedule.

Mr. Dead
11-18-09, 6:43 pm
I think Matt (Q) uses that one too. Hit him up on that because I think he has there schedule.

Will do...

HIGA MONSTER
11-18-09, 11:54 pm
I do have a lead on one, though... My goddaughter said that she thinks she saw something for a traveling unit... She's going to get me more info, the next time she's there...

Mr Dead,
I've seen those traveling ones on the Eastside of Seattle. I can't remember the name of them, for the life of me.

There is supposed to be a dipping Bodyfat tester in Kirkland too. I will ask my personal trainer friends.
The Kirkland one was like going into an egg shaped tank.

HIGA MONSTER

Rage
11-19-09, 9:06 am
Mr Dead,
I've seen those traveling ones on the Eastside of Seattle. I can't remember the name of them, for the life of me.

There is supposed to be a dipping Bodyfat tester in Kirkland too. I will ask my personal trainer friends.
The Kirkland one was like going into an egg shaped tank.

HIGA MONSTER

Thanks for that Grant. Q just scheduled an appointment with one of those. Hard to imagine a traveling hydro test, but I guess they're out there.

Q
11-19-09, 10:38 am
I think Matt (Q) uses that one too. Hit him up on that because I think he has there schedule.

I PM'ed MD shortly after seeing this with the info, couldnt remember the rules on links and such...

shortstack
11-19-09, 11:05 am
What's up brother Rage???

Hey I've been fighting an ear infection and a bad head cold for about a week or more now and have been loosing some of my gains. I've been slowly getting the diet back in check and will probably be checking in with you soon to see if I can't pack on some more weight before the classic.
I'll still be looking at that show in October and if it works out I'd like to hit that one first and then make adjustments for some other shows in 2011.

I'll be checking in with you later next week or if you have any immediate suggestions let me know.

Thanks Tom,

Jeremy

Rage
11-19-09, 1:11 pm
I PM'ed MD shortly after seeing this with the info, couldnt remember the rules on links and such...

Thanks brother. I cannot wait for you to rock the spot in Vancouver bro.


What's up brother Rage???

Hey I've been fighting an ear infection and a bad head cold for about a week or more now and have been loosing some of my gains. I've been slowly getting the diet back in check and will probably be checking in with you soon to see if I can't pack on some more weight before the classic.
I'll still be looking at that show in October and if it works out I'd like to hit that one first and then make adjustments for some other shows in 2011.

I'll be checking in with you later next week or if you have any immediate suggestions let me know.

Thanks Tom,

Jeremy

Whats up big Jeremy! My suggestion is that you move out here to Southern California and get away from all that shit weather over there lol. Seriously man, get better and I look forward to you slamming it in October. Take that Animal Pak!

Rage
11-19-09, 1:12 pm
Second Iron Contest is up and live. Get in while you can

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=28542

shortstack
11-19-09, 1:29 pm
Whats up big Jeremy! My suggestion is that you move out here to Southern California and get away from all that shit weather over there lol. Seriously man, get better and I look forward to you slamming it in October. Take that Animal Pak!

What's that....did I hear a job offer in there somewhere, hahaha. I'd love to get out there and not have to deal with 2" of ice and 12"of snow for 6 months. Someday soon bro, very soon.

Mr. Dead
11-19-09, 3:43 pm
Rage,
What's your take on Carnitine and CLA, during a cut...??? Also, what's your take on cortisol inhibitors, like relora...???

HIGA MONSTER
11-19-09, 6:34 pm
Thanks for that Grant. Q just scheduled an appointment with one of those. Hard to imagine a traveling hydro test, but I guess they're out there.

Rage and Dead,
Supposedly, these traveling Bodyfat testers are expensive, but don't quote me on that. My friend said its cheaper if you get a whole bunch of people to do it at one time.

Dead,
There is supposed to be a place with the BodPod up in north Seattle.

http://www.bodpod.com/

I guess its across the old Gold's Gym off of Aurora Ave, near an Emerald City Smoothie. You may want to look into it.

HIGA MONSTER

Mr. Dead
11-19-09, 6:52 pm
Rage and Dead,
Supposedly, these traveling Bodyfat testers are expensive, but don't quote me on that. My friend said its cheaper if you get a whole bunch of people to do it at one time.

Dead,
There is supposed to be a place with the BodPod up in north Seattle.

http://www.bodpod.com/

I guess its across the old Gold's Gym off of Aurora Ave, near an Emerald City Smoothie. You may want to look into it.

HIGA MONSTER

Cool!!! Thanks, Higa!!!

Rage
11-19-09, 7:04 pm
What's that....did I hear a job offer in there somewhere, hahaha. I'd love to get out there and not have to deal with 2" of ice and 12"of snow for 6 months. Someday soon bro, very soon.

Lol..right. I grew up back therein the mid west...had enough of that.


Rage,
What's your take on Carnitine and CLA, during a cut...??? Also, what's your take on cortisol inhibitors, like relora...???

I like Carnitine, five stars, pre cardio, maybe about 2000 mg in liquid form. Hey, anything that reduces fat and preserves muscle tissue such as CLA gets five stars in my book. You need about 3.4 grams of CLA per day to obtain the beneficial effects of CLA on body fat. Relora can sometimes be a bit of an apettite supressant, so I'd give that one only one star.



Rage and Dead,
Supposedly, these traveling Bodyfat testers are expensive, but don't quote me on that. My friend said its cheaper if you get a whole bunch of people to do it at one time.

Dead,
There is supposed to be a place with the BodPod up in north Seattle.

http://www.bodpod.com/

I guess its across the old Gold's Gym off of Aurora Ave, near an Emerald City Smoothie. You may want to look into it.

HIGA MONSTER

I think he mentioned something to me about this and that it's like $70+ to get a reading. I go to a local college that does hydro's for $20.

Mr. Dead
11-19-09, 7:22 pm
Lol..right. I grew up back therein the mid west...had enough of that.



I like Carnitine, five stars, pre cardio, maybe about 2000 mg in liquid form. Hey, anything that reduces fat and preserves muscle tissue such as CLA gets five stars in my book. You need about 3.4 grams of CLA per day to obtain the beneficial effects of CLA on body fat. Relora can sometimes be a bit of an apettite supressant, so I'd give that one only one star.




I think he mentioned something to me about this and that it's like $70+ to get a reading. I go to a local college that does hydro's for $20.

Cool... BTW... Where in the mid-west did ya grow up...??? (Grew up in Kansas...)

Q
11-20-09, 10:45 am
I think he mentioned something to me about this and that it's like $70+ to get a reading. I go to a local college that does hydro's for $20.

Damn thats a good price... At the mobile on one up here the first test is $50 i think, if you test again within 60 days its only $25 if you pay with cash or check, and I think if you refer somebody in its $10 off your next test.

Rage
11-23-09, 10:03 am
Cool... BTW... Where in the mid-west did ya grow up...??? (Grew up in Kansas...)

Well now that explains a lot about you lol...Toledo, Ohio and Temperance, MI.


Damn thats a good price... At the mobile on one up here the first test is $50 i think, if you test again within 60 days its only $25 if you pay with cash or check, and I think if you refer somebody in its $10 off your next test.

At least it's convenient.

clifsgoals
11-26-09, 12:03 pm
Rage and Animals,

Thanks for all the information shared on this forum. Because of the drive and focus of this forum I have used the information with lots of effort to get down to my leanest, while gaining strength along the way. Happy Thanksgiving, I am thankful for the Animal Forum...

newbreed
11-26-09, 7:41 pm
Hey Rage,

Just wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for the entry into your contest. You won't be disappointed. Enjoy

Rage
11-27-09, 10:38 am
Rage and Animals,

Thanks for all the information shared on this forum. Because of the drive and focus of this forum I have used the information with lots of effort to get down to my leanest, while gaining strength along the way. Happy Thanksgiving, I am thankful for the Animal Forum...


Hey Rage,

Just wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for the entry into your contest. You won't be disappointed. Enjoy

You bet my brothers.

clifsgoals
12-01-09, 9:23 am
Rage,

Holidays are much harder around my home to stay focused on diet. Well in last 2 weeks, lost 3 lbs, down to 223lb, hunger is up and down. average about a 5-6 of 10. cardio still 45min to 1hr 6 days a week. Started the routine you posted with the negatives, haven't been this sore in a while. What is your thoughts on HMB? Got some free with last purchase on Glutamine, said helps add lean muscle?

Thanks
Clif

Rage
12-01-09, 10:14 am
Rage,

Holidays are much harder around my home to stay focused on diet. Well in last 2 weeks, lost 3 lbs, down to 223lb, hunger is up and down. average about a 5-6 of 10. cardio still 45min to 1hr 6 days a week. Started the routine you posted with the negatives, haven't been this sore in a while. What is your thoughts on HMB? Got some free with last purchase on Glutamine, said helps add lean muscle?

Thanks
Clif

Hi Clif. lets do 2 lbs tomorrow. HMB is good for holding lean muscle. Animal Nitro works well in that capacity also.

Greek Elite
12-01-09, 8:34 pm
hey rage i just started your cutting routine, just did the leg workout (btw i hate u :P ), would it be (more) beneficial to take a soak in ice water or a hot tub? I can do either, or both, but that leg routine kicked my ass (especially since i did most of it before playin basketball, but all i could do was wobble down the court)

also, how do ou feel about 1 scoop of torrent PWO? i keep carbs low thru the rest of the day, aside from 4oz sweet potato with my pre-pre-wo meal, and just thinkin the 17g carbs from torrent would help with recovery.. plus i read in some keto plans how PWO carbs arent really counted, just the calories are.. for the last 2 workouts i did do the torrent, but figured I would ask if to keep it in or not

Rage
12-02-09, 10:32 am
hey rage i just started your cutting routine, just did the leg workout (btw i hate u :P ), would it be (more) beneficial to take a soak in ice water or a hot tub? I can do either, or both, but that leg routine kicked my ass (especially since i did most of it before playin basketball, but all i could do was wobble down the court)

also, how do ou feel about 1 scoop of torrent PWO? i keep carbs low thru the rest of the day, aside from 4oz sweet potato with my pre-pre-wo meal, and just thinkin the 17g carbs from torrent would help with recovery.. plus i read in some keto plans how PWO carbs arent really counted, just the calories are.. for the last 2 workouts i did do the torrent, but figured I would ask if to keep it in or not

Lol..do two rounds of hot 15 minutes and cold 15 minutes for recovery. I prefer you stick with whey and glutamine for PWO on a cut.

Greek Elite
12-02-09, 8:29 pm
Lol..do two rounds of hot 15 minutes and cold 15 minutes for recovery. I prefer you stick with whey and glutamine for PWO on a cut.

sounds good ill cut out the torrent.. save more for bulking anyways :D thanks!

clifsgoals
12-03-09, 9:33 am
Hey Rage,

One question on new cut routine. Said 3 sets on abs for 100 reps each side. I have been doing 3 sets of 100, but have been using 3 exercises to get to 100 reps. start with hanging knee raise, then decline crunches, then jackknife, no break between each till I get to 100. repeat with 1 minute between sets.

Then I saw you said each side? so I guess I am confused.

Thanks
Clif

shortstack
12-03-09, 11:27 am
Just checking in with ya again. Almost over the cold and ready to tackle to food and weights again. I'm thinking about running a stack/m-stack 6 week cycle and wondered what you thought about it.

I normally run pump pre workout but am almost out but if I did run pump should I take both the pump and stack pre workout?

Diet will be back in check this next week and hopefully start seeing some gains again.

See ya Tom,
Jeremy

Rage
12-03-09, 2:00 pm
Hey Rage,

One question on new cut routine. Said 3 sets on abs for 100 reps each side. I have been doing 3 sets of 100, but have been using 3 exercises to get to 100 reps. start with hanging knee raise, then decline crunches, then jackknife, no break between each till I get to 100. repeat with 1 minute between sets.

Then I saw you said each side? so I guess I am confused.

Thanks
Clif

Actually I like the routine your doing. That should certainly get the job done. I normally do 100 crunches on each oblique and then 100 straight crunches to finish off.


Just checking in with ya again. Almost over the cold and ready to tackle to food and weights again. I'm thinking about running a stack/m-stack 6 week cycle and wondered what you thought about it.

I normally run pump pre workout but am almost out but if I did run pump should I take both the pump and stack pre workout?

Diet will be back in check this next week and hopefully start seeing some gains again.

See ya Tom,
Jeremy

I love Animal Stak! I also take N1T with it. You can definitely run Pump and Stak together pre workout. Let me know if you need any help with the mass cycle.

shortstack
12-03-09, 4:24 pm
I love Animal Stak! I also take N1T with it. You can definitely run Pump and Stak together pre workout. Let me know if you need any help with the mass cycle.

Would you suggest the N1T instead of the m-stack or how would you stack it? I guess I'm looking for a 6 week sup boost to compliment the diet getting back on track as well as kick up some mass gain since being sick has consumed me the last 3 weeks.
Let me know what you think and I'll get a plan of attack together.

Mr. Dead
12-03-09, 4:26 pm
Would you suggest the N1T instead of the m-stack or how would you stack it? I guess I'm looking for a 6 week sup boost to compliment the diet getting back on track as well as kick up some mass gain since being sick has consumed me the last 3 weeks.
Let me know what you think and I'll get a plan of attack together.

I know when Rage had me pair up Stak and 4 caps of N1-T, I had some awesome results... PR's during a contest prep, as well as maintained mass, is a good thing...

shortstack
12-03-09, 5:00 pm
Thanks Dead Man, I'll look forward to seeing some results with this one.

Rage
12-04-09, 11:04 am
Would you suggest the N1T instead of the m-stack or how would you stack it? I guess I'm looking for a 6 week sup boost to compliment the diet getting back on track as well as kick up some mass gain since being sick has consumed me the last 3 weeks.
Let me know what you think and I'll get a plan of attack together.


I know when Rage had me pair up Stak and 4 caps of N1-T, I had some awesome results... PR's during a contest prep, as well as maintained mass, is a good thing...

Perfect! Me and Darik ran that leading up to the squatting contest.

fatbackgoal
12-06-09, 8:38 am
Rage,

Sent you some current pics taken Saturday. Routine is going well with some nice size and strength gains. With that being said these gains mean nothing if you can't see them so really thinking I should start cutting since it will be a long road. Doing the powerlifting meet in March would be nice but the bodybuilding is the main goal and will not push competing back another year.

shortstack
12-07-09, 10:57 am
Hey Rage,

I picked up some N1-T, some stack, and a cn of m-stack. I felt pretty good in the gym today so I think the strength may be coming back to normal. I'll probably start the cycle as soon as it gets here.

Also picked up some Gain Fast 3100, (2) 5 lb tubs to supplement some calories also. It's tough with the little one to get a meal in sometimes, so we'll see how it goes. As always I'm always open for suggestions from the master.

Shortstack

Rage
12-07-09, 8:16 pm
Rage,

Sent you some current pics taken Saturday. Routine is going well with some nice size and strength gains. With that being said these gains mean nothing if you can't see them so really thinking I should start cutting since it will be a long road. Doing the powerlifting meet in March would be nice but the bodybuilding is the main goal and will not push competing back another year.

Hey bro, I didn't get those. Can you resend? I'm here to help you. You want to cut, I'm in brother. Tell me when you want to start.


Hey Rage,

I picked up some N1-T, some stack, and a cn of m-stack. I felt pretty good in the gym today so I think the strength may be coming back to normal. I'll probably start the cycle as soon as it gets here.

Also picked up some Gain Fast 3100, (2) 5 lb tubs to supplement some calories also. It's tough with the little one to get a meal in sometimes, so we'll see how it goes. As always I'm always open for suggestions from the master.

Shortstack

Ok, cool. After that Gain Fast, I want you on Real Gains...less sugar. Lets do this brother.

shortstack
12-08-09, 4:45 pm
Thanks Rage, I'll get back on the RG after I kick start some progress.

I'll check in soon.

Jeremy

clifsgoals
12-14-09, 8:19 am
Hey Rage,

I am gonna start into the mass building phase Starting January. I feel I am low enough in body weight now to begin, down to 220lb. Lost 37lb in last 18 weeks. Need to know how to prepare so I can hit the ground running in January. What foods for diet planning, supplements, that kind of thing.

I am in the best shape of my life, well since Air Assault school back in 94', Thanks for all the support and guidance Rage and Animals.

Rage
12-14-09, 10:18 am
Hey Rage,

I am gonna start into the mass building phase Starting January. I feel I am low enough in body weight now to begin, down to 220lb. Lost 37lb in last 18 weeks. Need to know how to prepare so I can hit the ground running in January. What foods for diet planning, supplements, that kind of thing.

I am in the best shape of my life, well since Air Assault school back in 94', Thanks for all the support and guidance Rage and Animals.

Awesome bro. Lets see a few pics/poses. Show it off brother..from what I saw a while back you were really locking it in.

Alright, lets prep for mass. Let mme know what your carbs and protein are at now and we will go from there.

fatbackgoal
12-14-09, 10:39 am
Rage,

I resent the link to the pictures.

Rage
12-14-09, 2:59 pm
Rage,

I resent the link to the pictures.

I got them this time. Emailed you back. Lets do this.

clifsgoals
12-15-09, 10:56 am
Rage,

Protein daily is 200-210 average, and carbs are 100-115 daily average.

thanks
clif

fatbackgoal
12-15-09, 11:07 am
I got them this time. Emailed you back. Lets do this.


Ready when you are bro. Time to make it happen!!

jbfoster633
12-15-09, 12:49 pm
Rage would you mind taking a look at what i have been doing and give me some feedback. Thanks.

Monday
Skullcrushers: 2 x 8-12 reps*
Weighted Partial Dips: 3 x 6-8 reps*
One Arm Tri Ext: 2 x 12 reps*
Incline DB Curls: 3 x 6-8 reps*
Hammer Curl: 3 x 10 reps*
BB Curl: 3 x 8-12
Barbell Wrist Curl: 3 x 25 reps*
Tuesday
Squats: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Romanian DL: 2 x 6-12 *
Hip Runner: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Rev Hyperext: 2 x 6-12 reps*
Calf Raises: 3 x 15-20 reps*
Thursday
DB Bench: 3 x 8-12 Reps*
DB Incline Flyes: 2 x 8-12 Reps*
Dips - Chest Version: 2 x 8-12 Rep
Military Press: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Seated DB Press: 2 x 12 reps*
Side/Front Raise SS: 3 x 10 reps*
Friday
Deadlift: 2 x 10 Reps
1Arm DB Row: 2 x 10 reps
DB Pullovers: 3 x 10 Reps*
V-Bar Corner Rows: 3 x 10 Reps*
Barbell Shrugs: 3 x 6-10 Reps*

Rage
12-15-09, 1:50 pm
Rage,

Protein daily is 200-210 average, and carbs are 100-115 daily average.

thanks
clif

Add 8 oz of chicken and 8 oz of yams to your daily intake. This should bring you up to about 260 on protein and 160 on carbs. Check in on Mondays now.

Rage
12-15-09, 1:51 pm
Ready when you are bro. Time to make it happen!!

Do you want to start after xmas?

Rage
12-15-09, 2:00 pm
Rage would you mind taking a look at what i have been doing and give me some feedback. Thanks.

Monday
Skullcrushers: 2 x 8-12 reps*
Weighted Partial Dips: 3 x 6-8 reps*
One Arm Tri Ext: 2 x 12 reps*
Incline DB Curls: 3 x 6-8 reps*
Hammer Curl: 3 x 10 reps*
BB Curl: 3 x 8-12
Barbell Wrist Curl: 3 x 25 reps*
Tuesday
Squats: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Romanian DL: 2 x 6-12 *
Hip Runner: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Rev Hyperext: 2 x 6-12 reps*
Calf Raises: 3 x 15-20 reps*
Thursday
DB Bench: 3 x 8-12 Reps*
DB Incline Flyes: 2 x 8-12 Reps*
Dips - Chest Version: 2 x 8-12 Rep
Military Press: 3 x 6-10 reps*
Seated DB Press: 2 x 12 reps*
Side/Front Raise SS: 3 x 10 reps*
Friday
Deadlift: 2 x 10 Reps
1Arm DB Row: 2 x 10 reps
DB Pullovers: 3 x 10 Reps*
V-Bar Corner Rows: 3 x 10 Reps*
Barbell Shrugs: 3 x 6-10 Reps*

Keep your reps up around 10-12 on most lifts except your forearms and calves, it's fine to go higher like that. Good routine.

jbfoster633
12-15-09, 2:04 pm
Keep your reps up around 10-12 on most lifts except your forearms and calves, it's fine to go higher like that. Good routine.

Thanks alot.

fatbackgoal
12-15-09, 5:02 pm
Do you want to start after xmas?

That would be great. Would like to set up a full plan to hit the stage.

clifsgoals
12-16-09, 8:21 am
So for right now increase in protein and carbs are the only change. Keep with same routine and cardio, and check in on Mondays.


Thanks
clif

Rage
12-16-09, 9:12 am
That would be great. Would like to set up a full plan to hit the stage.

You got it.


So for right now increase in protein and carbs are the only change. Keep with same routine and cardio, and check in on Mondays.

Yes.

Thanks
clif

LayzieBone085
12-16-09, 9:14 am
Just dropping in to say thanks for all of the great information Tom, and best of all the ability to take care of so many individuals on these forums and bring them into great shape weather it be for mass gain or competition status.

Looking forward to your work with BCON for his contest prep.

Keep it real brother.

shortstack
12-16-09, 3:58 pm
Hey Tom,

Time to kick it in the ass. I'm running the stack, n1t, mstack combo and trying to get through that gainfast...you weren't joking about the sugar content.

Anyway I'm still holding about 190-193 and 9-11%bf. The goal is to hit 200 by the classic and start a cut sometime around July.

Let me know what I need to do and I'll get to work.

Thanks Bro,

Jeremy

Rage
12-16-09, 4:28 pm
Just dropping in to say thanks for all of the great information Tom, and best of all the ability to take care of so many individuals on these forums and bring them into great shape weather it be for mass gain or competition status.

Looking forward to your work with BCON for his contest prep.

Keep it real brother.

My honor brother. B just started this week and believe me..the man is on a mission this time..time to hit the stage.

Rage
12-16-09, 4:31 pm
Hey Tom,

Time to kick it in the ass. I'm running the stack, n1t, mstack combo and trying to get through that gainfast...you weren't joking about the sugar content.

Anyway I'm still holding about 190-193 and 9-11%bf. The goal is to hit 200 by the classic and start a cut sometime around July.

Let me know what I need to do and I'll get to work.

Thanks Bro,

Jeremy

Lets go to work brother. Give me some totals on carbs and protein and we shall press ahead.

shortstack
12-16-09, 5:06 pm
Lets go to work brother. Give me some totals on carbs and protein and we shall press ahead.

Give me a few days to try and normalize my diet and I'll see what I can come up with. I'm still getting the 8 eggs and cup of oatmeal, one fast gains shake a day, and atleast one chicken breast and yam but the rest is all up in the air.

I'll nail the diet down for few days or a week and get back to you.

Thanks Bro

newbreed
12-16-09, 8:01 pm
Nice training you got going there. Keep it up. I was wondering how long before a workout should I take storm and would it be good to use with torrent and shock? If so, whats the best way to stack them? Thank you

Rage
12-17-09, 9:06 am
Nice training you got going there. Keep it up. I was wondering how long before a workout should I take storm and would it be good to use with torrent and shock? If so, whats the best way to stack them? Thank you

Hey bro..Shock about 30 minutes pre, Torrent or Storm post.

freighttraindane
12-17-09, 12:37 pm
I just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice and education you have given this forum. I am starting your diet and workout plan the week after Xmas. I have always trained for a sport and never trained for bodybuilding, but the diet and workout that you put out there for the Red Team seems like the perfect workout to get me back on track. Sorry to say I have really let myself go since I stopped playing ball. I have attempted to go on my own diets and workout plans which just never seem to work. From the results of the contest it is clear that if you stick to the program and bust ur ass in the gym the results will follow. And I have a long way to go to get to where I want. But like the saying goes, every journey begins with the step. My plan is to follow the plan from after Xmas until the Cage at Arnold. Then adjust from there. But thanks again for all the work you do to help and inspire the masses in this forum.

Rage
12-17-09, 1:06 pm
I just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice and education you have given this forum. I am starting your diet and workout plan the week after Xmas. I have always trained for a sport and never trained for bodybuilding, but the diet and workout that you put out there for the Red Team seems like the perfect workout to get me back on track. Sorry to say I have really let myself go since I stopped playing ball. I have attempted to go on my own diets and workout plans which just never seem to work. From the results of the contest it is clear that if you stick to the program and bust ur ass in the gym the results will follow. And I have a long way to go to get to where I want. But like the saying goes, every journey begins with the step. My plan is to follow the plan from after Xmas until the Cage at Arnold. Then adjust from there. But thanks again for all the work you do to help and inspire the masses in this forum.

You bet bro. Looking forward to working with you. Let me know your beginning bodyweight, bf% (might need to get it checked) and lets get you rockin. Check in right here every Tuesday morning. Lets do this!

NJC_Manhattan
12-17-09, 1:11 pm
Just wanted to give you your due props for guiding me through the cut. I'm gaining now at a pretty rapid pace, and making strides. Couldn't have done it without ya bro. Thanks.

newbreed
12-17-09, 2:02 pm
Hey bro..Shock about 30 minutes pre, Torrent or Storm post.

Thank you. I got about 2 weeks left of torrent it looks like so say I wanted to down an isolate PWO would I take storm then wait about 10 minutes then down the protein?

freighttraindane
12-17-09, 3:29 pm
Thanks Rage!!! I am 6' and weighed myself last night at 415, not the normal weight u probably see people start at but like I said I gotta start somewhere. I will have to find somewhere to get my bf% tested. i am also going to be taking some before pictures the day before i start. Right now I have been lifting and cardio 4 days a week a week. I obviously know the lifting and eating schedule to start. As for supplements right now I am taking whey protein, Animal Pak, Animal Cuts, and fish oil. Any assitance with the supplements would be a great help also. Thanks in advance for helping out this novice.

Rage
12-17-09, 3:58 pm
Just wanted to give you your due props for guiding me through the cut. I'm gaining now at a pretty rapid pace, and making strides. Couldn't have done it without ya bro. Thanks.

Thanks bro and anytime you need help..I've got your back brother.


Thank you. I got about 2 weeks left of torrent it looks like so say I wanted to down an isolate PWO would I take storm then wait about 10 minutes then down the protein?

In my book, protein takes priority after training so down the Iso then give it about a 30 minute head start and get that Storm in.


Thanks Rage!!! I am 6' and weighed myself last night at 415, not the normal weight u probably see people start at but like I said I gotta start somewhere. I will have to find somewhere to get my bf% tested. i am also going to be taking some before pictures the day before i start. Right now I have been lifting and cardio 4 days a week a week. I obviously know the lifting and eating schedule to start. As for supplements right now I am taking whey protein, Animal Pak, Animal Cuts, and fish oil. Any assitance with the supplements would be a great help also. Thanks in advance for helping out this novice.

Awesome bro. Thats fine, we'll get you rockin. Pak, Cuts, Iso Whey, Animal Omega are all a good start.

newbreed
12-17-09, 4:01 pm
Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it greatly

clifsgoals
12-21-09, 10:46 am
Hey rage,

Well gained 1 lb, think it is from missing 2 days cardio though. I increased protein and carbs like you said. at 221 lbs now. hunger is around a 4-5 out of 10. arms and abs routine finished today, felt great. spin bike for cardio.


thanks
clif

freighttraindane
12-22-09, 9:03 am
I know I said that I wasn't going to start until the week after Xmas, but I was pumped to get started, so I started on the workout this week and have been eating healthy. I will start following the diet exactly as you designed next week. Just from doing the workout I have lost 3 lbs, I am at 412 as of this morning.

I have not be able to get my bf% tested, I am still trying to find a place to get it checked. The gym I workout at only has the scale kind and unfortunately I am over the weight limit for that scale. I will work on getting it tested soon.

I have also started a Journey so you can see my lifting results for the workout.

Thanks

Rage
12-22-09, 11:28 am
Hey rage,

Well gained 1 lb, think it is from missing 2 days cardio though. I increased protein and carbs like you said. at 221 lbs now. hunger is around a 4-5 out of 10. arms and abs routine finished today, felt great. spin bike for cardio.


thanks
clif

Awesome. Enjoy the holidays.

Rage
12-22-09, 11:28 am
I know I said that I wasn't going to start until the week after Xmas, but I was pumped to get started, so I started on the workout this week and have been eating healthy. I will start following the diet exactly as you designed next week. Just from doing the workout I have lost 3 lbs, I am at 412 as of this morning.

I have not be able to get my bf% tested, I am still trying to find a place to get it checked. The gym I workout at only has the scale kind and unfortunately I am over the weight limit for that scale. I will work on getting it tested soon.

I have also started a Journey so you can see my lifting results for the workout.

Thanks

Good job. Don't worry about the bf right now. Just focus on sticking with it when the time comes.

jbfoster633
12-22-09, 11:36 am
Hey Rage,

Quick question. I am following your meal plan for bulking and I think that it is working. I have gained about 5 pounds in the last month or so. I do have a question about supps though. Here is what I am taking.

Pak - morning w/ breakfast
real gain/iso pure - mid morn meal
m-stak - around 10
real gain/iso pure - 1 hour pre training
stak - 30-45 min pre training
shock therapy - 15 min pre training
intra-aid - during
torrent - post training

My question is should I be taking anything else to help put on mass? I have been reading about uni-liver. Do I need that and what does it do? Any help would be greatly appreciated and accepted. Thanks.

Rage
12-23-09, 11:34 am
Hey Rage,

Quick question. I am following your meal plan for bulking and I think that it is working. I have gained about 5 pounds in the last month or so. I do have a question about supps though. Here is what I am taking.

Pak - morning w/ breakfast
real gain/iso pure - mid morn meal
m-stak - around 10
real gain/iso pure - 1 hour pre training
stak - 30-45 min pre training
shock therapy - 15 min pre training
intra-aid - during
torrent - post training

My question is should I be taking anything else to help put on mass? I have been reading about uni-liver. Do I need that and what does it do? Any help would be greatly appreciated and accepted. Thanks.

I would add creatine and glutamine, 5 grams each with two shakes. Liver is a great product and you can take 2 tablets with each meal and work your way up to 6 tablets with each meal over a couple weeks. Good job on the 5 lbs, slow and steady.

Greek Elite
12-25-09, 12:06 pm
Happy Holidays Rage!

Rage
12-27-09, 11:41 am
Happy Holidays Rage!

Thank you brother! How did xmas go?

SailinScotty
12-27-09, 10:11 pm
Rage, hope you had a great Xmas. I had a question about bulking. I've been following the contest and was going to follow your meal plan starting Jan 8th. I switched my routine to the ones schak had posted last month or should I switch it up and try the one you posted. I'll be running Pak, Stak, M-Stak, ST, intra-aid w/storm, torrent and nitro. I'm 6'2" 216lbs. Last bf I did one was on a scale and said 22% and did one at the gym where you hold it and it sad 12.9%. Looking at doing a bodpod when I get home.

Thanks in advance
Scott

Rage
12-28-09, 10:19 am
Rage, hope you had a great Xmas. I had a question about bulking. I've been following the contest and was going to follow your meal plan starting Jan 8th. I switched my routine to the ones schak had posted last month or should I switch it up and try the one you posted. I'll be running Pak, Stak, M-Stak, ST, intra-aid w/storm, torrent and nitro. I'm 6'2" 216lbs. Last bf I did one was on a scale and said 22% and did one at the gym where you hold it and it sad 12.9%. Looking at doing a bodpod when I get home.

Thanks in advance
Scott

Hey Scott, thank you and I hope you had a good one yourself. Your supp mix looks good and I would add about 10 grams a day of glutamine to the mix. I would suggest running that routine your on now for a good 4 months before switching it up to mine. Give it a good honest run before changing it up too quickly. Let me know your thoughts on how it goes.