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GJN5002
06-02-09, 6:08 pm
There are always a ton of posts asking for diet critque which is great. I know I like to help people with diets and so do lots of other guys. But sometimes people just need some direction, because its better to understand why than just take someones word for it. My goal with this thread is to help explain how to create your diet and update with some diet tips I read. Please feel free to critique me and add your own knowledge.

GJN5002
06-02-09, 6:08 pm
This is very basic and is only a general outline.

To maintain your weight, take your lean body mass x 14 calories

To lose weight go under 14 calories per pound

To take lean body mass x 18 calories per pound.

I like using lean body mass because you don’t need calories to support your fat.

Example:
200lb man with 20% bf
Lean body mass of 160lbs.

Maintain : 160 x 14 = 2240 calories.
Bulk: 160 x 18 = 2880
Use this as a base, if you aren’t gaining add 500 calories at a time. Give it a week and adjust. Same for cutting. If you are maintaining at 2240 calories take it down 500 and as your weight loss slows add more cardio or shave off some more calories in smaller increments.

Divide your calories into equal meals. If you wake up at 8 and go to bed at 11 you’re awake for 15 hours. Eat every 2-3 hours. That makes 5 meals.

A very easy ratio for maintaining or bulking is 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat.

Fat = 9 calories/g
Carb = 4 cal/g
Protein = 4 cal/g

So take our maintainence calories: = 2240
2240/5 = 448 cal/meal
448/ x 0.4 = 179 claories

179 calls from protein = 45g p
179 clas from carbs = 45g carb
90 cal from fat = 10 g of fat

You can play around with that and eat more protein or more carb, whatever you prefer.

GJN5002
06-03-09, 10:23 am
BASICS OF PROTEIN AND FAT

Its only 15 mins long. I just minimized it and listened while working. orth the time to understand the very basics of fat.

http://www.probodybuilding.com/video/video-interviews/exclusive-species-nutrition-with-dave-palumbo-colette-nelson-part-1-of-3.php

adidas
06-03-09, 11:38 am
BASICS OF PROTEIN AND FAT

Its only 15 mins long. I just minimized it and listened while working. orth the time to understand the very basics of fat.

http://www.probodybuilding.com/video/video-interviews/exclusive-species-nutrition-with-dave-palumbo-colette-nelson-part-1-of-3.php

I gotta give Dave credit here...I like hwat he has to say.

Nice work on the thread too!

B.C.
06-03-09, 11:54 am
Great posts. I had thought about doing this a few times myself. I'll stay subbed, so I can check the updates as they come.

GJN5002
06-03-09, 12:49 pm
I gotta give Dave credit here...I like hwat he has to say.

Nice work on the thread too!

Whether you are into keto or not, Dave has solid nutrition advice and there is no denying the importance of fat.

GJN5002
06-03-09, 12:49 pm
Great posts. I had thought about doing this a few times myself. I'll stay subbed, so I can check the updates as they come.

thanks, feel free to contribute

CuttDeez
06-03-09, 12:59 pm
Hey I have done a lot of research on this subject myself. I recieved my CPT from National Association of Sports Medicine and there is a large portion on the science of a diet. One thing I would point out is the imprtance of when you eat these calories.

In a bulking phase it might not matter as much, but then again that is the easy phase.

When you are cutting timing can be very important especially when you are considering when to take in your carbs, and what kind to take in at different points (simply vs. complex). I know that for myself in a bulking phase I will have casien protein and a big bowl of oatmeal before bed. But in a cutting phase I will switch to casein mixed with milk so that I have less carbs in my stomach as I am going to bed. My body reacts pretty well to this. I also know that I try to keep my carbs complex except for around breakfast to start my metabolism and around my workout for some added energy.

You probably have your own thoughts on this subject and maybe want to mention something about timing.

GJN5002
06-03-09, 1:27 pm
Hey I have done a lot of research on this subject myself. I recieved my CPT from National Association of Sports Medicine and there is a large portion on the science of a diet. One thing I would point out is the imprtance of when you eat these calories.

In a bulking phase it might not matter as much, but then again that is the easy phase.

When you are cutting timing can be very important especially when you are considering when to take in your carbs, and what kind to take in at different points (simply vs. complex). I know that for myself in a bulking phase I will have casien protein and a big bowl of oatmeal before bed. But in a cutting phase I will switch to casein mixed with milk so that I have less carbs in my stomach as I am going to bed. My body reacts pretty well to this. I also know that I try to keep my carbs complex except for around breakfast to start my metabolism and around my workout for some added energy.

You probably have your own thoughts on this subject and maybe want to mention something about timing.


great advice. I like to get the job done with as few carbs as possible, so for off season I even limit my carbs, but I know a lot of people arent like that. If you want to write something up about carb timing go for it.

CuttDeez
06-03-09, 1:45 pm
Ok sounds good.

In terms of types of carbs you have your complex, simply, and then I like to put sugars in a separate category.
Complex carbs take longer for your body to break down and your body has to work harder to break them down. (they are the casiens of the carb world). These are your whole wheats, multi grains, fiberous carbs.
Simply. They are more simple for your body to process and can change them into an energy source much faster. These are your pastas, white breads, etc.
Sugars. Supper easy for your body to process and use as energy.

When your body cannot use them as energy it stores them as fat. We dont tend to like fat and that is why you have to know about your cards. However we do need energy source so they are a necessary evil. What I like to do (and I invite people to disagree with me on this one) is keep my carbs complex. Your body works harder and they last longer and they tend to bring fiber to the table which is good for you. The only TIME I eat simply carbs is in the morning in the form of a fruit for a little rush to get your metabolism kick started. The only other TIME I like them is maybe a little before the workout for some energy and a little after to get shit into my muscles. In terms of TIMING of my complex carbs I like to keep them small and throughout the day. I like having the fiber, but I am big on a protein rich diet so they are not a staple of mine.

In terms of timing for your proteins you want to keep your body in an anabolic state at all times. You tend to process protein in 3 to 4 hours. Dont cut it too close have protein in your system every three hours so you never dip into catabolic state and ruin your hard work. This is where casein would come in. Slow acting protein will stay in your system for longer because it takes your body longer to process. You here about people taking this one at night. If you dont want to buy casien supplements you can find it in milks and dairy products.

Timing fats- No real timing issues here that I have found. Just make them good fats. Also they do help with satiation so if you find yourself hungry at a certain time in the day mayeb you should up the fat in the meal previous.

Timing Water- just drink a shit ton

Waxy Maize- a supplement we have all heard about. When I mentioned timing in the carb portion i forgot to mention this guy. Good product I believe in Animal Torrent.(there are others out there). It is a carb source for post workout shakes that is processed through the stomach quickly and into the intestines fast. This allows for incredible protien absorbtion in the stomach post workout. This is just a good note on why you find Waxy Maize in post workout shakes and why it is the new rage.

One more note on timing- Like the man said you have to learn for yourself. Everyone's body reacts differently so you have to listen to it and learn from it.

This is probably more than you wanted, but I love this shit. If you have any questions please ask me. I hope this helps shed some light on the issues of timing and how important knowing your own body is.

fenix237
06-03-09, 2:28 pm
great thread gjn!

is there any credibility in basing a diet on somatype. i once heard read if you carry the majority of your bodyfat in the stomach/ass area, then limit carbs to lose weight. if bodyfat is spread more evenly on your body, then cutting fat is more important. any truth to this type of thinking???

i know enough about this game that everyone responds different, and the only way to know for sure is too give it a try and see what happens. just curious...

GJN5002
06-03-09, 3:31 pm
great thread gjn!

is there any credibility in basing a diet on somatype. i once heard read if you carry the majority of your bodyfat in the stomach/ass area, then limit carbs to lose weight. if bodyfat is spread more evenly on your body, then cutting fat is more important. any truth to this type of thinking???

i know enough about this game that everyone responds different, and the only way to know for sure is too give it a try and see what happens. just curious...

I think there is some truth to it. It would depend on some factors though. Genetics and diet being the biggest. Ive talked with people who claim to be endomorphs and cant lose weight but they have never really ate right or trained right the same goes for endos who "cant gain weight." I think the only real way to find a diet that is right for you is to try them out. If you try a low carb approach and it works well and you feel good go for it, if you feel crappy and see mediocre results, try another way of doing things. So much of bodybuilding is trial and error. Thats just my take though.

Fat storage can tell you a lot of insulin resistance and hormone levels. I have an article about it, I'll tyr to post it up.Thats just my take though.

GJN5002
06-03-09, 3:32 pm
great post cuttdeez, I'm glad to see people taking an interest in this. I know there are many people on here with a lot of knowledge when it comes to nutrition, I'm just trying to collect it all in one place for people to reference.

CuttDeez
06-03-09, 3:33 pm
No problem I will keep an eye on the thread and see when I can contribute.

t_mh
06-03-09, 8:21 pm
awesome video.

t_mh
06-03-09, 8:25 pm
He made an interesting point about flaxseed being useless. Don't a lot of people take that?

fenix237
06-12-09, 2:55 pm
hey gjn, here's a question for you; when someone is trying to lose weight, not necessarily a BB'er cutting, why is fruit generally avoided? i can see limiting your fruit intake because of the simple sugars, but what's wrong with eating a banana with your oats in a protein shake earlier in the day, or an apple in your preworkout meal? won't the sugars get used up training?

GJN5002
06-12-09, 4:47 pm
hey gjn, here's a question for you; when someone is trying to lose weight, not necessarily a BB'er cutting, why is fruit generally avoided? i can see limiting your fruit intake because of the simple sugars, but what's wrong with eating a banana with your oats in a protein shake earlier in the day, or an apple in your preworkout meal? won't the sugars get used up training?

If youre just trying to get rid of a little bit of body fat, I wouldnt avoid fruit, but I wouldnt eat it in excess either. Especially bannanas, I'd save that for breakfast or postworkout just because it is a pretty fast acting carb. I would assume the advice to avoid fruit comes from the sugars. There is a big difference between eating some blueberries and strawberries or eating bannanas and pineapple sugar wise. Unless, I'm doing keto I never avoid fruit there are way too many benefits, you just have to know when to eat it. right now I'm doing the anabolic diet and I take a whole food powder with berries and some other fruit powders because I cant eat fruit. just my 2 cents though

krazyassmexican
06-12-09, 6:11 pm
good post g
lol

fenix237
06-19-09, 1:53 pm
got another one for everyone to chew on; Sodium- we all hear to avoid foods high in sodium because it raises blood pressure and retains water, yet we drink gatorade and other drinks designed to replenish lost sodium/electrolytes. also, i read to get better pumps/vascularity try adding some salt to your foods

so what's the scoop???

LegendKillerJosh
06-19-09, 2:05 pm
got another one for everyone to chew on; Sodium- we all hear to avoid foods high in sodium because it raises blood pressure and retains water, yet we drink gatorade and other drinks designed to replenish lost sodium/electrolytes. also, i read to get better pumps/vascularity try adding some salt to your foods

so what's the scoop???

Just like anything it has it's time and place. And just like anything too little or too much isn't good.

CuttDeez
06-19-09, 2:37 pm
Just like anything it has it's time and place. And just like anything too little or too much isn't good.

In terms of vasularity I am sure you know that when you are dehydrated you get pretty vainy. The reason is this. When you are hydrated there is not that much salt in the blood stream so there is alot of water in your cells. then as you deydrate the salt concentration in the blood stream increases. This causes your cells to give up there water and put it into the blood stream to balance the salt levels. In tern your vessels have to dialate to accomidate the increase in volume and you become more vascular.

GJN5002
06-19-09, 3:25 pm
got another one for everyone to chew on; Sodium- we all hear to avoid foods high in sodium because it raises blood pressure and retains water, yet we drink gatorade and other drinks designed to replenish lost sodium/electrolytes. also, i read to get better pumps/vascularity try adding some salt to your foods

so what's the scoop???

I would say you should keep your sodium in the moderat level I think somewhere around 2000 mg a day is what is reccomended. That will help you maintain normal fluid balances. The thing is, if you are eating really clean, unprocessed foods like I am, you are probably not getting a whole lot of sodium. Processed foods have a ton of sodium. I tend to grind a little sea salt on most of my meals.

GJN5002
06-23-09, 10:05 am
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3179/2

this site is great for counting your daily calories and macros. It even has a chart that breaks down the protein content, inflammation, fats, carbs etc.

fenix237
07-07-09, 4:08 pm
alright, maybe one of you can clear my confusion when it comes to eating fruit on a cut or trying to lose weight. i know fruit is sugar, and when you eat it, your blood sugar is spiked- then the body releases the storage hormone insulin from the pancreas to go and store the glucose as bodyfat

lots of people recommend to eliminate fruit when trying to lose weight. so when someone is cutting, even if they take into account the carbs/sugar/cals of fruit, is that because the sugar is stored as fat too fast to be used immedietely by the body?

also, some fruits spike insulin much faster than others- pineapple, oranges, and bananas on one end, and apples, watermelon, and berries on the other- does this sound right???

i love eating fresh fruits and veggies, and it kinda sucks to eliminate them. not that big of a deal for the time being but still....

CuttDeez
07-07-09, 4:14 pm
alright, maybe one of you can clear my confusion when it comes to eating fruit on a cut or trying to lose weight. i know fruit is sugar, and when you eat it, your blood sugar is spiked- then the body releases the storage hormone insulin from the pancreas to go and store the glucose as bodyfat

lots of people recommend to eliminate fruit when trying to lose weight. so when someone is cutting, even if they take into account the carbs/sugar/cals of fruit, is that because the sugar is stored as fat too fast to be used immedietely by the body?

also, some fruits spike insulin much faster than others- pineapple, oranges, and bananas on one end, and apples, watermelon, and berries on the other- does this sound right???

i love eating fresh fruits and veggies, and it kinda sucks to eliminate them. not that big of a deal for the time being but still....



What your saying is correct. What I would suggest is if you cannot avoid fruits throughout the day use them wizely. Think about your supplements. PWO shakes contain glucose to release insulin to tell muscle fibers to become sensative to protein absorbtion. Preworkout supplement have sugars for energy sugres. I would suggect if you are on a cut to only eat your fruits pre and post workout for these reasons.

Love2lift21
07-13-09, 2:10 pm
BASICS OF PROTEIN AND FAT

Its only 15 mins long. I just minimized it and listened while working. orth the time to understand the very basics of fat.

http://www.probodybuilding.com/video/video-interviews/exclusive-species-nutrition-with-dave-palumbo-colette-nelson-part-1-of-3.php

I just came into this thread and wanted to check the video out. Link gives an error, could you maybe repost or tell us how to search it?

GJN5002
07-13-09, 4:08 pm
I just came into this thread and wanted to check the video out. Link gives an error, could you maybe repost or tell us how to search it?

I think pro bodybuilding. com is having some troubles and may be in the process of shutting down or reformulating the site. Try searching youtube for dave palumbo basics of protein and fat. its a 2 part interview. you should see a big dude with a ny accent talking about nutrition.

H60flyboy
07-16-09, 9:54 am
gin and deez, you guys have helped me out instrumentally in forming a diet and gettting more knowledgeable on this stuff. I have been lifting for almost a year, (seriously anyways lol) and I have wondered why I cannot cut fat very well. I have tried some diets from like bodybuilding.com and other sites but with minimal results. I have been wanting to formulate my own diet becuase honestly I cant adhere to a set time frame diet like the ones I see online. I fly helicopters in the Army and my schedule changes everyday. But the advice I have gotten from you two is phenominal!!! Thanks again guys and Ill be checking back to read more!

GJN5002
07-16-09, 12:12 pm
gin and deez, you guys have helped me out instrumentally in forming a diet and gettting more knowledgeable on this stuff. I have been lifting for almost a year, (seriously anyways lol) and I have wondered why I cannot cut fat very well. I have tried some diets from like bodybuilding.com and other sites but with minimal results. I have been wanting to formulate my own diet becuase honestly I cant adhere to a set time frame diet like the ones I see online. I fly helicopters in the Army and my schedule changes everyday. But the advice I have gotten from you two is phenominal!!! Thanks again guys and Ill be checking back to read more!

thanks man, I appreciate it. Understanding what and how much your body needs is so important but many people will just take a pre made diet and hope it works. Good luck with your diet and if you need any help Id be happy to give you some advice.

CuttDeez
07-16-09, 12:20 pm
gin and deez, you guys have helped me out instrumentally in forming a diet and gettting more knowledgeable on this stuff. I have been lifting for almost a year, (seriously anyways lol) and I have wondered why I cannot cut fat very well. I have tried some diets from like bodybuilding.com and other sites but with minimal results. I have been wanting to formulate my own diet becuase honestly I cant adhere to a set time frame diet like the ones I see online. I fly helicopters in the Army and my schedule changes everyday. But the advice I have gotten from you two is phenominal!!! Thanks again guys and Ill be checking back to read more!

Good stuff brother. Like i always say it about learning about you body and you are doing just that! You have the drive and the desire for the know how. Keep it up and let me know if you have any more questions.

violator
07-17-09, 6:44 am
lots of people recommend to eliminate fruit when trying to lose weight. so when someone is cutting, even if they take into account the carbs/sugar/cals of fruit, is that because the sugar is stored as fat too fast to be used immedietely by the body?

also, some fruits spike insulin much faster than others- pineapple, oranges, and bananas on one end, and apples, watermelon, and berries on the other- does this sound right???

i love eating fresh fruits and veggies, and it kinda sucks to eliminate them. not that big of a deal for the time being but still....

keep eating em bro...theres nothing wrong with fruit on a cut UNLESS U R DOING KETO.....
i.e. keto diets rely on a person consuming a maximum of around 25 - 50g of carbs per day, depending on BW......since carbs r generally found in just about everything (even spinach & peanut butter)....this adds up & u can quickly get to this threshold.... and a piece of fruit might tip u over into glucogenesis again....thereby leaving you feeling flat, tired and weak.

Also, another interesting fact about fruit..... is that it changes the levels of your stomach acidity....therefore, if you eat fruit with your meals, your stomach will not digest the food properly....and convert it to metabolic waste instead of nutrients for your body.

So that being said, eat your fruit, but eat it about 30mins before you have a meal....it should be digested before you hit up some eggs & oatmeal....



p.s. this is a really good thread...big ups gjn5002 for gettin it started...

GJN5002
07-17-09, 10:09 am
keep eating em bro...theres nothing wrong with fruit on a cut UNLESS U R DOING KETO.....
i.e. keto diets rely on a person consuming a maximum of around 25 - 50g of carbs per day, depending on BW......since carbs r generally found in just about everything (even spinach & peanut butter)....this adds up & u can quickly get to this threshold.... and a piece of fruit might tip u over into glucogenesis again....thereby leaving you feeling flat, tired and weak.

Also, another interesting fact about fruit..... is that it changes the levels of your stomach acidity....therefore, if you eat fruit with your meals, your stomach will not digest the food properly....and convert it to metabolic waste instead of nutrients for your body.

So that being said, eat your fruit, but eat it about 30mins before you have a meal....it should be digested before you hit up some eggs & oatmeal....



p.s. this is a really good thread...big ups gjn5002 for gettin it started...

thanks man,

Only thing I want to correct you on is that if you eat pineapple or papya with a high protein meal it will actually help you to digest the protein more completely. The food combo and digestion is up in the air a bit, atleast from what Ive read, so I will generally eat fruit as I please and don tworry so much about timing.

Also, it will just kick you out of keto if you spike your insulin. Gluconeogenesis is the process by which aminos are converted into glucose in the liver mainly for use in the brain.

violator
07-21-09, 5:28 am
..... The food combo and digestion is up in the air a bit, at least from what Ive read......

Yeah..i just find it does make a difference for me personally....another thing thats also up in the air is water intake....i prefer to not consume any fluids for around 20mins before and after a meal....ive also felt a big difference in doing this....but thats just me....

fenix237
07-21-09, 10:41 am
Yeah..i just find it does make a difference for me personally....another thing thats also up in the air is water intake....i prefer to not consume any fluids for around 20mins before and after a meal....ive also felt a big difference in doing this....but thats just me....

violator- what's the reasoning behind not taking in fluids for 20 mins before/after meals? do you feel it gets you bloated?

GJN5002
07-21-09, 10:43 am
violator- what's the reasoning behind not taking in fluids for 20 mins before/after meals? do you feel it gets you bloated?

x2? I have to have a drink with my meal or it just doesnt feel right haha.

violator
07-22-09, 2:06 am
In a nutshell....to much fluid at meal times can dilute stomach acids and reduce digestive enzymes....thereby greatly diminishing the stomachs ability to assimilate foods correctly...

Also...drinking cold water after consuming saturated fats (such as bacon..a cheeseburger etc) is a major no-no(think of a hot frying pan with hot fat in it...what happens when u pour cold water on it? the fat coagulates into a white fatty mass) ...rather have a cup of hot green tea with ur meals if u absolutely have to have a drink...

CuttDeez
07-22-09, 7:36 am
In a nutshell....to much fluid at meal times can dilute stomach acids and reduce digestive enzymes....thereby greatly diminishing the stomachs ability to assimilate foods correctly...

Also...drinking cold water after consuming saturated fats (such as bacon..a cheeseburger etc) is a major no-no(think of a hot frying pan with hot fat in it...what happens when u pour cold water on it? the fat coagulates into a white fatty mass) ...rather have a cup of hot green tea with ur meals if u absolutely have to have a drink...

I used to be very consious of this water intake. It would force me to stop drinking for an hour while I ate and then pound water for an hour and then stop again. It became obnoxious as I eat 8 times a day about every 2 hours. I just said fuck it if I am getting fat because of water intake then something is seriously wrong in my life. I noticed no difference. I think your body just gets used to the fluid intake and adjusts how it produces enzymes. The body is a wonderful thing and it works in incredible ways. I think you would be suprised at how much it can do. This is all from my experience and like I say constantly in order to be sure you have to try it and learn more about how your body works.

fenix237
07-22-09, 10:02 am
In a nutshell....to much fluid at meal times can dilute stomach acids and reduce digestive enzymes....thereby greatly diminishing the stomachs ability to assimilate foods correctly...

Also...drinking cold water after consuming saturated fats (such as bacon..a cheeseburger etc) is a major no-no(think of a hot frying pan with hot fat in it...what happens when u pour cold water on it? the fat coagulates into a white fatty mass) ...rather have a cup of hot green tea with ur meals if u absolutely have to have a drink...

interesting- i've heard of drinking hot drinks after fatty meals, but not limiting water around meals...the idea that lots of water would dilute stomach acids sounds legitimate

GJN5002
07-22-09, 10:16 am
In a nutshell....to much fluid at meal times can dilute stomach acids and reduce digestive enzymes....thereby greatly diminishing the stomachs ability to assimilate foods correctly...

Also...drinking cold water after consuming saturated fats (such as bacon..a cheeseburger etc) is a major no-no(think of a hot frying pan with hot fat in it...what happens when u pour cold water on it? the fat coagulates into a white fatty mass) ...rather have a cup of hot green tea with ur meals if u absolutely have to have a drink...

Interesting concept. I think drinking a normal glass of water with food is probably ok. Water passes through the body in roughly 20 min and food takes hours. If you were downing a liter of water I could see thta being bad. Im definately going to look for some studies though youve sparked my interest.

CuttDeez
07-22-09, 10:41 am
1. The stomach acids are diluted when you drink water, but the stomach monitors its ph level so well that it will quickly adjust to the dilution.

2. The stomach acids are only really there to activate the pepsinogen in your stomach. This is what actualy is breaking down the food. The pepsinogen is released through the mucus and activated into pepsin. Then the pepsin gets to work. This means that if you are pounding water and diluting the acid there is still some acidity there to activate pepsinogen into pepsin which will break down the food.

3. the stomach is not the main absorber of nutrients. It is used to break down your food into chyme or goop. if your stomach acid is diluted its not like the stomach will let food pass. Liquids readily pass through the pylorus in spurts, but solids must be reduced to a diameter of less than 1-2 mm before passing the pyloric gatekeeper. Larger solids are propelled by peristalsis toward the pylorus, but then refluxed backwards when they fail to pass through the pylorus - this continues until they are reduced in size sufficiently to flow through the pylorus. So basically even if you dilute the acid your stomach will recover quickly and still do its job.

So in my opinion it does not matter. I would not try to down a liter in between bites but the glass during the meal is not bad.

That being said it is important to let your mouth do some work with your saliva. DONT chew and put water in and swallow!!!!! let your saliva work the food. if you cannot swallow without water its because the saliva has not done its job yet.

I hope this helps. Keep asking good questions!!

fenix237
07-22-09, 11:06 am
1. The stomach acids are diluted when you drink water, but the stomach monitors its ph level so well that it will quickly adjust to the dilution.

2. The stomach acids are only really there to activate the pepsinogen in your stomach. This is what actualy is breaking down the food. The pepsinogen is released through the mucus and activated into pepsin. Then the pepsin gets to work. This means that if you are pounding water and diluting the acid there is still some acidity there to activate pepsinogen into pepsin which will break down the food.

3. the stomach is not the main absorber of nutrients. It is used to break down your food into chyme or goop. if your stomach acid is diluted its not like the stomach will let food pass. Liquids readily pass through the pylorus in spurts, but solids must be reduced to a diameter of less than 1-2 mm before passing the pyloric gatekeeper. Larger solids are propelled by peristalsis toward the pylorus, but then refluxed backwards when they fail to pass through the pylorus - this continues until they are reduced in size sufficiently to flow through the pylorus. So basically even if you dilute the acid your stomach will recover quickly and still do its job.

So in my opinion it does not matter. I would not try to down a liter in between bites but the glass during the meal is not bad.

That being said it is important to let your mouth do some work with your saliva. DONT chew and put water in and swallow!!!!! let your saliva work the food. if you cannot swallow without water its because the saliva has not done its job yet.

I hope this helps. Keep asking good questions!!

excellent post bro!

CuttDeez
07-22-09, 11:59 am
excellent post bro!

Doin what I can glad I could help shed some light on the matter

GJN5002
07-22-09, 1:17 pm
Doin what I can glad I could help shed some light on the matter

x2, you saved me an hour of scanning pub med

violator
07-23-09, 9:11 am
So in my opinion it does not matter. I would not try to down a liter in between bites but the glass during the meal is not bad....

agreed...a glass prolly isnt to bad, its when ur throwing down a liter at meals trying to choke down some nasty tuna or 6 whole eggs, that things might get a little worrysome..... as for the hot drinks/ sat fats situation i really do think this has some merit.....

Cuttdeez; whats ur take on betanine HCL?

CuttDeez
07-23-09, 9:34 am
agreed...a glass prolly isnt to bad, its when ur throwing down a liter at meals trying to choke down some nasty tuna or 6 whole eggs, that things might get a little worrysome..... as for the hot drinks/ sat fats situation i really do think this has some merit.....

Cuttdeez; whats ur take on betanine HCL?

Betaine HCL:

Most protein that enters the body is in the form of folds. These folds are caused by certain amino acids in the chain being attracted to each other. The stomachs function is to de-nature these protein chains so that later down the line they can be borken up and utilized.

Betaine HCL lowers the ph of the stomach by helping add HCL in your stomach. This increase in HCL will help with the denaturing of the protein. It will also help with the production of pepsin which will help denature the foods in your stomach. It will not help with the absorbtion.

If you are a weak producer of stomach acid Betaine HCL is a great supplement. (see your doctor to see if your are). However, if your stomach is already efficient at producing stomach acids then you will probably not notice a difference because like I said it is just denaturing not absorbtion. So if your stomach can already fully denature the chain adding stuff to your stomach won't have an effect.

Furthermore please be careful with Betaine HCL don't go about recomended dosages because you can easily burn your stomach lining.

Overall a good supplement if you need it. If not you will not notice anything.

I hope this helps!

fenix237
07-28-09, 2:07 pm
alright fellas, i just placed an order for animal pak, flex, glutamine, creatine, and dextrose- should be here today/tomorrow. really hoping flex helps out with this nagging shoulder strain...i've always just took plain creatine w/grape juice or in my PWO drink. at the advice of some members here, i bought a bag of dextrose and micronized creatine. any info on dextrose is useful. how much of each should i take PWO? should i take any before working out, and also on off days. please keep in mind i'm on a weight loss regimen, so i don't want to go overboard with sugar- thnx fellas! -brp

GJN5002
07-28-09, 3:10 pm
alright fellas, i just placed an order for animal pak, flex, glutamine, creatine, and dextrose- should be here today/tomorrow. really hoping flex helps out with this nagging shoulder strain...i've always just took plain creatine w/grape juice or in my PWO drink. at the advice of some members here, i bought a bag of dextrose and micronized creatine. any info on dextrose is useful. how much of each should i take PWO? should i take any before working out, and also on off days. please keep in mind i'm on a weight loss regimen, so i don't want to go overboard with sugar- thnx fellas! -brp

how much do you weigh and whats your bf?

fenix237
07-28-09, 3:12 pm
i'm 5'10", 265lbs, 27%BF

CuttDeez
07-28-09, 3:18 pm
alright fellas, i just placed an order for animal pak, flex, glutamine, creatine, and dextrose- should be here today/tomorrow. really hoping flex helps out with this nagging shoulder strain...i've always just took plain creatine w/grape juice or in my PWO drink. at the advice of some members here, i bought a bag of dextrose and micronized creatine. any info on dextrose is useful. how much of each should i take PWO? should i take any before working out, and also on off days. please keep in mind i'm on a weight loss regimen, so i don't want to go overboard with sugar- thnx fellas! -brp

I would check this out brother

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/nelsonb.htm

GJN5002
07-28-09, 3:19 pm
i'm 5'10", 265lbs, 27%BF

if you are cutting weight I honestly wouldnt be usuing post workout sugar at your bf% I would stick to taking some bcaa or eaa post workout followed by a meal. If you are really set on taking it, I probably would go around 30g post with 5g of creatine. There are so many schools of thought on creatine dosing. Its chepa enough that you can use it everyday. I usually do 5g pre and 5g post and 5g in the morning when I don train.

fenix237
07-28-09, 3:31 pm
if you are cutting weight I honestly wouldnt be usuing post workout sugar at your bf% I would stick to taking some bcaa or eaa post workout followed by a meal. If you are really set on taking it, I probably would go around 30g post with 5g of creatine. There are so many schools of thought on creatine dosing. Its chepa enough that you can use it everyday. I usually do 5g pre and 5g post and 5g in the morning when I don train.

so you're saying to cut out the dextrose, but creatine is okay? i was thinking only to take the dextrose pre/post workout when simple carbs are best taken- i've really had good results w/creatine in the past, so i thought taking it now would be ok so as long as i'm not loading up on sugar. i miss the pumps and strength boost of creatine..lol!!! i almost bought some Torrent, and would have put the creatine in that PWO.

i thought that after a hard brutal workout, your body is depleted of glycogen, and taking in simple carbs at this time replenishes it's stores and will not hinder weight loss???

Wasteland
07-28-09, 4:08 pm
so you're saying to cut out the dextrose, but creatine is okay? i was thinking only to take the dextrose pre/post workout when simple carbs are best taken- i've really had good results w/creatine in the past, so i thought taking it now would be ok so as long as i'm not loading up on sugar. i miss the pumps and strength boost of creatine..lol!!! i almost bought some Torrent, and would have put the creatine in that PWO.

i thought that after a hard brutal workout, your body is depleted of glycogen, and taking in simple carbs at this time replenishes it's stores and will not hinder weight loss???

Just because you're on a cut, I wouldn't categorically remove dextrose post-workout. I think too many go to extreme ends these days with respect to carbs. If you are a "science" guy, take a look at the studies on "nutrient timing". Carbs are recommended post-workout. I'd experiment if I were you. Post-workout, creatine + carbs + EAA would be fine. I'd take a look at SportPharma CARB Max, which is a great carb complex. Also, if you prefer simplicity, take a look at Universal Carbo Plus. Torrent is a great option as well. I like the taste and the convenience.

GJN5002
07-28-09, 4:50 pm
Just because you're on a cut, I wouldn't categorically remove dextrose post-workout. I think too many go to extreme ends these days with respect to carbs. If you are a "science" guy, take a look at the studies on "nutrient timing". Carbs are recommended post-workout. I'd experiment if I were you. Post-workout, creatine + carbs + EAA would be fine. I'd take a look at SportPharma CARB Max, which is a great carb complex. Also, if you prefer simplicity, take a look at Universal Carbo Plus. Torrent is a great option as well. I like the taste and the convenience.

if you are in a caloric deficit what is the point of post workout insulin spiking? Skip the extra calories post workout and get some eaa's in which are the only essential thing after working out. Hes not going to build muscle with a calorie deficiency. As far as simplicity, hes got that down, dextrose and creatine.

im not saying you absolutely shouldnt do dextrose postworkout, but its better left for growing. Just my opinion though. Try a two weeks of dextrose pwo and then 2 weeks of aminos post and no dextrose and see what you like BRP. Every body is different you have to find out what works for you.

Wasteland
07-28-09, 5:04 pm
if you are in a caloric deficit what is the point of post workout insulin spiking? Skip the extra calories post workout and get some eaa's in which are the only essential thing after working out. Hes not going to build muscle with a calorie deficiency. As far as simplicity, hes got that down, dextrose and creatine.

im not saying you absolutely shouldnt do dextrose postworkout, but its better left for growing. Just my opinion though. Try a two weeks of dextrose pwo and then 2 weeks of aminos post and no dextrose and see what you like BRP. Every body is different you have to find out what works for you.

I think we're on the same page gjn5002 in that we both espouse individual experimentation. Some are very sensitive to carbs, others less so. I was merely responding to your post where you told the member you wouldn't. For you, it might not be effective, but for another, it might be.

Carbs have numerous functions post-workout that aren't limited to "spiking" insulin. Much of the recent literature on the subject of PRO and CHO use reveals a possible synergy between the two. CHO added to PRO (say, EAA) may serve to enhance muscle protein synthesis above just PRO use alone. For this, see the work of Tipton and Wolfe. And according to the ISSN, PRO + CHO post-workout can help enhance the accumulation of lean mass while improving body fat %. Throw in some creatine and you can get a very potent brew: "the available data does provide support that adding Cr to a post-exercise regiment of CHO and PRO may help facilitate greater improvements in body composition during resistance training."

fenix237
07-28-09, 5:13 pm
[QUOTE=gjn5002; im not saying you absolutely shouldnt do dextrose postworkout, but its better left for growing. Just my opinion though. Try a two weeks of dextrose pwo and then 2 weeks of aminos post and no dextrose and see what you like BRP. Every body is different you have to find out what works for you.[/QUOTE]

okay, i appreciate the responses Wasteland/gjn5002- as always, you just have to see for yourself how you respond. i was just thinking that since i already drink simple carbs PWO, why not add in some creatine? i'll try it out for a month and get back to you guys with results. thnx bro's!

krazyassmexican
07-28-09, 5:52 pm
I think we're on the same page gjn5002 in that we both espouse individual experimentation. Some are very sensitive to carbs, others less so. I was merely responding to your post where you told the member you wouldn't. For you, it might not be effective, but for another, it might be.

Carbs have numerous functions post-workout that aren't limited to "spiking" insulin. Much of the recent literature on the subject of PRO and CHO use reveals a possible synergy between the two. CHO added to PRO (say, EAA) may serve to enhance muscle protein synthesis above just PRO use alone. For this, see the work of Tipton and Wolfe. And according to the ISSN, PRO + CHO post-workout can help enhance the accumulation of lean mass while improving body fat %. Throw in some creatine and you can get a very potent brew: "the available data does provide support that adding Cr to a post-exercise regiment of CHO and PRO may help facilitate greater improvements in body composition during resistance training."

You should apply for a job at md

they love people waiving studies over there

great side job while being online IMO

Wasteland
07-29-09, 11:42 am
okay, i appreciate the responses Wasteland/gjn5002- as always, you just have to see for yourself how you respond. i was just thinking that since i already drink simple carbs PWO, why not add in some creatine? i'll try it out for a month and get back to you guys with results. thnx bro's!

It's a good strategy, combining simple carbs with creatine. Try it and tell us how it works out BRP.

GJN5002
07-29-09, 12:09 pm
I think we're on the same page gjn5002 in that we both espouse individual experimentation. Some are very sensitive to carbs, others less so. I was merely responding to your post where you told the member you wouldn't. For you, it might not be effective, but for another, it might be.

Carbs have numerous functions post-workout that aren't limited to "spiking" insulin. Much of the recent literature on the subject of PRO and CHO use reveals a possible synergy between the two. CHO added to PRO (say, EAA) may serve to enhance muscle protein synthesis above just PRO use alone. For this, see the work of Tipton and Wolfe. And according to the ISSN, PRO + CHO post-workout can help enhance the accumulation of lean mass while improving body fat %. Throw in some creatine and you can get a very potent brew: "the available data does provide support that adding Cr to a post-exercise regiment of CHO and PRO may help facilitate greater improvements in body composition during resistance training."


i dont doubt you, I know you are a knoweldgeable guy. As said, I was usuing my own experience, BRP will find out what his body responds best to which is what everyone should do.

Wasteland
07-29-09, 1:16 pm
i dont doubt you, I know you are a knoweldgeable guy. As said, I was usuing my own experience, BRP will find out what his body responds best to which is what everyone should do.

On this, we are definitely in agreement gjn5002. Experimentation is the key. Knowledgeable? I don't know about that. I do know this--knowledge only takes you so far. Putting that knowledge into practice is what it's all about when it comes to bodybuilding.

Necromatrix
08-05-09, 1:40 am
I have read quite a bit here on the forums as well as articles, but I have not run across anything to answer my question. I have begun paying closer attention to my diet and taking it more seriously. Up until now I have basically eaten what I wanted, when I wanted. I have never bothered to count calories and the like. I have been using the "1 gram of protein per body weight" idea.

However, I want to get a better diet running. I read this post numerous times and did the math. I am 6'2", 177 lbs (small, but bigger than I have ever been). I do not know my exact body fat, but it is not high for certain. Using the formula to calculate bulking calories I should be in taking around 2500 calories a day. I used fitday.com and calculated yesterday’s intake... I hit over 4000 calories, a lot of which was carbs. Obviously, that is bad but brings me to my question... I have eaten like this for years and gain weight very slowly, none of which is fat gains. Is there a designed method for factoring in a ridiculously high metabolism? Or should I design my diet to reflect the numbers of a much larger person while balancing the protein/ carbs/ fat contributions?

K Stro24
08-05-09, 3:38 am
I have read quite a bit here on the forums as well as articles, but I have not run across anything to answer my question. I have begun paying closer attention to my diet and taking it more seriously. Up until now I have basically eaten what I wanted, when I wanted. I have never bothered to count calories and the like. I have been using the "1 gram of protein per body weight" idea.

However, I want to get a better diet running. I read this post numerous times and did the math. I am 6'2", 177 lbs (small, but bigger than I have ever been). I do not know my exact body fat, but it is not high for certain. Using the formula to calculate bulking calories I should be in taking around 2500 calories a day. I used fitday.com and calculated yesterday’s intake... I hit over 4000 calories, a lot of which was carbs. Obviously, that is bad but brings me to my question... I have eaten like this for years and gain weight very slowly, none of which is fat gains. Is there a designed method for factoring in a ridiculously high metabolism? Or should I design my diet to reflect the numbers of a much larger person while balancing the protein/ carbs/ fat contributions?

If you're 6'2 and 177, you need more than 2500 cals to bulk, your math is probably wrong.

Here's what I got with my equation from the Lean Mass Diet, given you are an Ectomorph looking to gain 1.5lbs-2lbs of LBM a week...

177/2.2=80.4555x46=3700 Calories. and even if u wanna gain 1lb of LBM a week, ur still looking at 3300 cals, and even if u are an endomorph looking at 1lb, its still around 3000. So the equation your using or your math is wrong.

And also, design your diet to what you wanna be, if you wanna be 225, you wont get there eating like a 175 lb person

Necromatrix
08-05-09, 4:03 am
Well, my figure was ruffly based upon the formula given in this thread. Supposing I have 20 percent body fat (I have no idea what it is for certain). 177 lbs – 20% body fat = 142 lean mass. Using the bulking formula given 142 * 18 = 2556 calories.

I will need to do a bit more research. Sadly, I am not familiar with what an ectomorph nor endomorph is. My thanks to you for the input. I have not seen the equation you used. Also, the suggestion to eat for what I want to be makes perfect sense and should override my metabolism. Agan, thank you for your help.

GJN5002
08-05-09, 10:28 am
I have read quite a bit here on the forums as well as articles, but I have not run across anything to answer my question. I have begun paying closer attention to my diet and taking it more seriously. Up until now I have basically eaten what I wanted, when I wanted. I have never bothered to count calories and the like. I have been using the "1 gram of protein per body weight" idea.

However, I want to get a better diet running. I read this post numerous times and did the math. I am 6'2", 177 lbs (small, but bigger than I have ever been). I do not know my exact body fat, but it is not high for certain. Using the formula to calculate bulking calories I should be in taking around 2500 calories a day. I used fitday.com and calculated yesterday’s intake... I hit over 4000 calories, a lot of which was carbs. Obviously, that is bad but brings me to my question... I have eaten like this for years and gain weight very slowly, none of which is fat gains. Is there a designed method for factoring in a ridiculously high metabolism? Or should I design my diet to reflect the numbers of a much larger person while balancing the protein/ carbs/ fat contributions?


experimentation. the equations are simply a reference. If you can eat 4000 cals and not gain fat go for it. youre young and active, there are a ton of variables involved. just keep track of what you are eating and slowy decrease the calories. when you dstop seeing reuslts take the cals down a bit more, throw in some more cardio etc.

Necromatrix
08-05-09, 10:39 am
Dully noted, thank you. My metabolism has always been high. I am 31 and the only time I gained any fat was from a two month period of downtime where I ate only fast food and drank beer (a lot of beer). I am disappointed in that since my abs do not look great now. However, I thought I would focus on stacking on mass for. I can cut latter on, that is easy enough. It is adding mass that has always been an issue.