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GJN5002
06-22-09, 4:35 pm
I just listened to an interview with Nick Nilsson and he claims you can add up to an inch on your arms in three weeks following this program. I personally think that is a bit far-fetched but who knows. So if you have been feverishly scanning the thousands of threads on here about getting bigger arms, give it a shot.

For three weeks do this routine three times a week. Ideally Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Tuesday and Thursday you will train back, chest, legs, and shoulders split up however you want. The goal is to maintain those body parts while you bring up your arms.

1.High-Rep partials
Olympic bar curls but only do the top 1/5 of the exercise with a weight you can get 8-10 regular curls with.
30-50- reps x 3 sets

2.in-set supersets
lying triceps extensions s/s close grip bench
Moderate weight 1 extension and then one close grip bench until you reach failure. 4 sets

3. go to the power rack and set the bar up and chin level.
do one curl and then one close grip pull-up 8-12 reps x 3 sets

4.straight set of dips to failure 3 sets

5.nilson curl. Its basically a pull up with your forearm secured in place. You can do it in the power rack by positioning the pins. 2-3 sets of 5-6 reps

It sounds interesting, maybe it will help someone out.

Elite
06-22-09, 4:40 pm
I really cant see sufficient recovery timing for growth in this plan.

MVP
06-22-09, 5:03 pm
Adding growth to your arms is done by directly stimulating them and gaining weight.

MrMonday
06-22-09, 8:00 pm
Adding growth to your arms is done by directly stimulating them and gaining weight.

Novel concept!

LOL yes this is exactly correct.

prowrestler
06-22-09, 8:15 pm
make progress in exercises that allow for the most weight/isolation of the targeted muscle in the 10-15 rep zone. tempo being 1 second up, 2 down. that equals 30-45sec sets. thats ideal for hypertrophy.

from Dave Tate. dont argue with him, he wont give a shit and won't be wrong lol

GJN5002
06-22-09, 10:39 pm
I really cant see sufficient recovery timing for growth in this plan.
its only for three weeks

Adding growth to your arms is done by directly stimulating them and gaining weight.
never said it wasnt


make progress in exercises that allow for the most weight/isolation of the targeted muscle in the 10-15 rep zone. tempo being 1 second up, 2 down. that equals 30-45sec sets. thats ideal for hypertrophy.

from Dave Tate. dont argue with him, he wont give a shit and won't be wrong lol

thats awesome. tate's the man

MojoMike36
06-22-09, 10:57 pm
weight gains matter more to arm size than any single workout plan. (assuming your making weight gains on a program)

MVP
06-22-09, 11:03 pm
weight gains matter more to arm size than any single workout plan. (assuming your making weight gains on a program)

Exactly.

GJN5002
06-23-09, 10:10 am
Im just posting up the routine because I always see question s about getting bigger arms. Obviously you must eat to gain weight for muscle gains, I never said that you could do this program and lose weigth at the same time. I'm doubting the inch in 3 weeks claim but if youre in a rut, why not try it? I would like to but I would much rather add an inch to my calves haha.

IRN-NML
06-23-09, 10:23 am
5.nilson curl. Its basically a pull up with your forearm secured in place. You can do it in the power rack by positioning the pins. 2-3 sets of 5-6 reps



Slight correction here; re the Nilson curl; you'd do that as a very close grip chin up (palms facing you). Forearms and fists touching each other. I've tried it & it's an interesting effect. Can't remember if I read it in a Nilson article or somewhere else, but give it a try.

As for the whole routine; you'd probably need to do it when the gym is pretty quiet & you have access to all the equipment. Also, no way of knowing how many subjects Nilson had do the routine. More'n likely, advanced lifters/athletes eating and supplementing correctly. Like most routines; could work for some & not for others.

newbreed
06-23-09, 10:37 am
Give it a hot. You never know everyone's body responds to different training

Dedicated
06-23-09, 11:00 am
Im just posting up the routine because I always see question s about getting bigger arms. Obviously you must eat to gain weight for muscle gains, I never said that you could do this program and lose weigth at the same time. I'm doubting the inch in 3 weeks claim but if youre in a rut, why not try it? I would like to but I would much rather add an inch to my calves haha.

+1 on the calves comment haha.

Nothing like a good "quick fix" routine, but like gjn said, if you're in a rut what could it hurt?

Menace
06-23-09, 10:06 pm
Anyone have any input on Arm size related to wrist size? Obviously a smaller wrist equals a smaller arm. What do you guys think?

GJN5002
06-24-09, 10:12 am
Anyone have any input on Arm size related to wrist size? Obviously a smaller wrist equals a smaller arm. What do you guys think?

There are alot of bodybuilders with small wrists/joints. I have womanly wrists but last time I measured my arms they were slightly over 18 inches at 200 lbs. Plus it makes your forearms look bigger haha.

newbreed
06-24-09, 10:13 am
Anyone have any input on Arm size related to wrist size? Obviously a smaller wrist equals a smaller arm. What do you guys think?

It doesn't really mean anything if you bust your ass and eat right

MrMonday
06-24-09, 12:41 pm
Anyone have any input on Arm size related to wrist size? Obviously a smaller wrist equals a smaller arm. What do you guys think?

Small joints + big muscle bellies = awesome bodybuilder.

Take a look at Flex Wheeler

prowrestler
06-24-09, 12:52 pm
Small joints + big muscle bellies = awesome bodybuilder.

Take a look at Flex Wheeler

chances of big muscle bellies with small joints = small

GJN5002
06-24-09, 10:16 pm
chances of big muscle bellies with small joints = small

I dont necessarily think thats true, many top level bodybuilders have "small" joints. Now if that is just deception because the muscles are so large the joints look small, I dont know.

prowrestler
06-24-09, 11:09 pm
I dont necessarily think thats true, many top level bodybuilders have "small" joints. Now if that is just deception because the muscles are so large the joints look small, I dont know.

i really dont think its fair to use the saying " many pro bodybuilders'
remember, 99% of people do not have what it takes to be a pro bodybuilder, they are genetic freaks. it is not normal to have tiny joints yet massive muscle bellies, but that small percent of people who do are your pro bodybuilders. its too biast. its like goin to a hocky game and ask the fans 'whats your favorite sport?" ya think there gonna say ping pong?? lol

in the normal/natural world, guys with bigger joints tend to have bigger skeleton's and therefor, bigger skeletal muscle. i dunno many guys with huge wrists and pea shooter arms, especialy if they train.

in all honesty, the most important thing i see is this, DO NOT USE SMALL JOINTS AS AN EXCUSE WHY YOUR NOT JACKED! i got a bitch of a bone structure, small wrists yet theres no doubt in my mind i will get 20 inch arms by the time im dead. i got up from freakin 10.5's!!! (ew) to 16's and im just 18 years old now, i got alot of time to go. im no where near my natty potential yet.

genetic body types are not "be all, end all" .they are simply starting points.

MrMonday
06-25-09, 8:24 am
in all honesty, the most important thing i see is this, DO NOT USE SMALL JOINTS AS AN EXCUSE WHY YOUR NOT JACKED! i got a bitch of a bone structure, small wrists yet theres no doubt in my mind i will get 20 inch arms by the time im dead. i got up from freakin 10.5's!!! (ew) to 16's and im just 18 years old now, i got alot of time to go. im no where near my natty potential yet.

genetic body types are not "be all, end all" .they are simply starting points.

I would echo what pro is saying here.

GJN5002
06-25-09, 10:21 am
I would echo what pro is saying here.

Thats what I was implying. Dont let your bone structure be an excuse. Large joints dont look as good on bodybuilders and are more suited for strength sports in my opinion.

McFly
06-25-09, 10:29 am
it could work for someone....As simple as it sounds it is a matter of find what works. I've heard guys train arms once a month, or crazy heavy every week, or light w/ high reps every week and all have GREAT arms....

For years I trained arms like I train everything else, as heavy as possible and my arms SUCKED and didn't respond like everything else. It took a long time to steer away from that heavy approach but after the 2009 Arnold, Big Al and I have been training arms high reps w/ moderate weight and my arms are slowly starting to show some progress...so it MAY work....only way is to give it a FAIR shot....

AFTazz06
06-25-09, 1:15 pm
As McFly said, i think it doesnt hurt to try it out, sometimes the excercises you strive away from are what can really shock you into growth. I tried something similar to this arm routine, but for delts. 3 giant sets, 3 consecutive days, then a week off and i gotta honestly say my delts have NEVER looked as full and as round before. So i'm definetly gonna give this arm routine a look and try it out on the days that traffic in my gym isnt too bad. I also listened to the interview and i remember Nilsson saying that he also had excercises for stretching the faschia (spelling?) which i think ALOT of us overlook when working out. We want those big full, round muscles but they dont have room to grow. I was doing something like this (unknowingly, until i listened to the interview) for chest, on an incline machine, i would hold the weight close to my chest for 1-2 seconds and feel the stretch and then push it back up, doing that for about the last 4-5months has really chizzled my upper pecs, i can even see veins in there too. So dont be afraid to try something new fellas, you never know what might work best for you, we're all different.

Menace
06-25-09, 5:44 pm
i'm the same way. 7 inch wrist with a 16.5 inch arm. not using it as an excuse. still working hard!

calcaneous
06-25-09, 6:14 pm
so you do that routine 3 times a week, and the days in between you do back, chest, legs, or shoulders?

last time i checked, my triceps get hit when i do chest/shoulders; and my biceps/forearms get hit when i do back.

how are your arms resting at all???

MrMonday
06-25-09, 6:36 pm
so you do that routine 3 times a week, and the days in between you do back, chest, legs, or shoulders?

last time i checked, my triceps get hit when i do chest/shoulders; and my biceps/forearms get hit when i do back.

how are your arms resting at all???

I hope you don't mean that you aren't working your biceps and triceps directly at all...

And anyway, people get so uppity are fearful of overtraining, when in reality if you want a bodypart to grow it really does pay off to train it as often as you can (without injurying yourself and resting enough to make progress).

AFTazz06
06-25-09, 6:50 pm
so you do that routine 3 times a week, and the days in between you do back, chest, legs, or shoulders?

last time i checked, my triceps get hit when i do chest/shoulders; and my biceps/forearms get hit when i do back.

how are your arms resting at all???

You hit bi's and tri's indirectly when you train chest/shoulders/back. You SHOULDNT be getting a pump in your arms, if you are then you are doing those excercises all wrong.

calcaneous
06-25-09, 7:09 pm
You hit bi's and tri's indirectly when you train chest/shoulders/back. You SHOULDNT be getting a pump in your arms, if you are then you are doing those excercises all wrong.

whichever muscles im working, gets pumped. If i do chest, my chest, shoulders and triceps get pumped. When i do chin ups, my back, forearms, biceps, shoulders get pumped. I cant stop my body from doing what it was designed to do, work in synergy.

GJN5002
06-25-09, 10:30 pm
whichever muscles im working, gets pumped. If i do chest, my chest, shoulders and triceps get pumped. When i do chin ups, my back, forearms, biceps, shoulders get pumped. I cant stop my body from doing what it was designed to do, work in synergy.

its 3 weeks. like I said its mainenance on other parts for three weeks.

MrMonday
06-25-09, 11:16 pm
whichever muscles im working, gets pumped. If i do chest, my chest, shoulders and triceps get pumped. When i do chin ups, my back, forearms, biceps, shoulders get pumped. I cant stop my body from doing what it was designed to do, work in synergy.

The body is designed to work both together and separately.

LegendKillerJosh
06-25-09, 11:19 pm
You hit bi's and tri's indirectly when you train chest/shoulders/back. You SHOULDNT be getting a pump in your arms, if you are then you are doing those excercises all wrong.

Are you saying your triceps don't get a pump when benching?

MrMonday
06-26-09, 10:02 am
Are you saying your triceps don't get a pump when benching?

The guys doing this correctly get a pump in the muscle group they want to target. When I bench I get a pump in my chest. My triceps and shoulders might be a little bit fatigued but they aren't getting anywhere near the stimulation my chest is getting.

I could see this happening for someone who was a complete novice, though it's not a trend you want to purposefully continue to the point where you never develop a great mind-muscle-connection.

AFTazz06
06-26-09, 10:41 am
Are you saying your triceps don't get a pump when benching?

Thats exactly what i'm saying. If you know how to isolate a body part correctly, ONLY that body part should get the full effect from the excercise. When i work chest, i go heavy, and i can honestly tell you i only feel it in my chest. I arch my back, stick my chest out, get a full stretch at the bottom and squeeze at the top. if your shoulders and tris are taking a beating, then you chest isnt being worked. Same as on back, if i'm working back, doesnt matter what the excercise is; lat pulldowns, rows, machine rows, etc. my back gets pumped, my forearms, bis dont. YES, those other muscles are being hit indirectly, but thats what INDIRECTLY means, to NOT be the main focus of the excercise but because you need to move your arms inorder to do the excercise (to move the machine parts, or to lower the pulldown) those muscles still get worked, just not targeted.

LegendKillerJosh
06-26-09, 12:36 pm
Thats exactly what i'm saying. If you know how to isolate a body part correctly, ONLY that body part should get the full effect from the excercise. When i work chest, i go heavy, and i can honestly tell you i only feel it in my chest. I arch my back, stick my chest out, get a full stretch at the bottom and squeeze at the top. if your shoulders and tris are taking a beating, then you chest isnt being worked. Same as on back, if i'm working back, doesnt matter what the excercise is; lat pulldowns, rows, machine rows, etc. my back gets pumped, my forearms, bis dont. YES, those other muscles are being hit indirectly, but thats what INDIRECTLY means, to NOT be the main focus of the excercise but because you need to move your arms inorder to do the excercise (to move the machine parts, or to lower the pulldown) those muscles still get worked, just not targeted.

I get all that, trust me, my chest is sore after bench day. And yes, the triceps aren't getting a full workout from benching alone. But I still wouldn't bench one day and do triceps the next.

GJN5002
06-26-09, 12:41 pm
I get all that, trust me, my chest is sore after bench day. And yes, the triceps aren't getting a full workout from benching alone. But I still wouldn't bench one day and do triceps the next.

from the interview, nillson inferred that all other training is not your typical balls to the wall training. you are going to train chest enough to get a pump and maintain your muscularity.

calcaneous
06-26-09, 8:09 pm
Thats exactly what i'm saying. If you know how to isolate a body part correctly, ONLY that body part should get the full effect from the excercise. When i work chest, i go heavy, and i can honestly tell you i only feel it in my chest. I arch my back, stick my chest out, get a full stretch at the bottom and squeeze at the top. if your shoulders and tris are taking a beating, then you chest isnt being worked. Same as on back, if i'm working back, doesnt matter what the excercise is; lat pulldowns, rows, machine rows, etc. my back gets pumped, my forearms, bis dont. YES, those other muscles are being hit indirectly, but thats what INDIRECTLY means, to NOT be the main focus of the excercise but because you need to move your arms inorder to do the excercise (to move the machine parts, or to lower the pulldown) those muscles still get worked, just not targeted.

my secondary muscles never hurt (tri/shoulders) while benching, they do get pumped, i just wouldn't want to sacrifice really training my major body parts to add an inch to my arms.

MVP
07-02-09, 4:21 am
The guys doing this correctly get a pump in the muscle group they want to target. When I bench I get a pump in my chest. My triceps and shoulders might be a little bit fatigued but they aren't getting anywhere near the stimulation my chest is getting.

A lot of that is in the technique used. Your triceps are synergists to the bench press because they're responsible for the elbow extension. You cannot cancel this affect however you can minimize it by utilizing a more efficient agonist driven technique.

A bodybuilding technique would keep the elbows at 180 degrees, this would be unnecessary tension on the other synergist - the anterior deltoids, by expanding the chest you are making the chest the concentric mover / agonist again and minimizing the affect that particular movement has on the triceps and delts and maximizing stimulus to the agonist.

Then there's the powerlifting technique that I disagree with. The one where the elbows are kept parallel to the body and with a back arch, ultimately resulting in overload at the triceps. This same technique would minimize the affect to the anterior deltoids. This technique also minimizes the range of motion where the time under tension is affected negatively, not that it would matter as long as the stimulus is there, but the stimulus is subtracted from the concentric and eccentric contraction, resulting in less fibers utilized.

I'm all for direct arm utilization depended upon goals. In bodybuilding, every muscle group is just as important as the others. A bicep curl is just as important as a squat, a bodybuilder with small biceps and huge legs would not win a competition and vice versa.

For a beginner / novice trainee I think no direct arm utilization is necessary. Barbell rows involve a similar motion as a barbell curl without the isolation of the elbow, the barbell row is generally easier to progress in than a curl, therefore can hypertrophy the biceps generally better for a beginner trainee. As you progress, you'll end up stalling on the barbell row and need more movements in order to continue progressive overload, therefore that's when isolating the joints would come in. Same philosophy applies to the triceps.

MrMonday
07-02-09, 2:21 pm
For a beginner / novice trainee I think no direct arm utilization is necessary. Barbell rows involve a similar motion as a barbell curl without the isolation of the elbow, the barbell row is generally easier to progress in than a curl, therefore can hypertrophy the biceps generally better for a beginner trainee. As you progress, you'll end up stalling on the barbell row and need more movements in order to continue progressive overload, therefore that's when isolating the joints would come in. Same philosophy applies to the triceps.

What do you think you mean when you say it isn't "necessary"?

Can you not see that a beginner would grow BETTER by doing BOTH rows AND curls? Obviously they would, so recommending that they only do rows because curls aren't "necessary" is just silly.

MVP
07-02-09, 2:47 pm
What do you think you mean when you say it isn't "necessary"?

Can you not see that a beginner would grow BETTER by doing BOTH rows AND curls? Obviously they would, so recommending that they only do rows because curls aren't "necessary" is just silly.

Nope. Not entirely.

Giving a better a lot of movements is going to take his focus off the primary movements he should be more focused on. If he continues to make increments on his row / pullup, they involve the type of movement as a curl - flexsion at the elbow. The difference being the supinated grip VS pronated.

Less is more with beginners. When I was a beginner, my arms wouldn't grow with direct stimulus, I dropped the direct movements and focused on rowing, pullup, and face pulls and my arms went from 11 inches to 13 inches pretty quickly.

With an intermediate / advanced persona, sure do both. But beginners don't need it.

GJN5002
07-02-09, 3:14 pm
When youre a beginner, just about anything makes you grow.

MVP
07-02-09, 3:17 pm
When youre a beginner, just about anything makes you grow.

Yep.

Dedicated
07-03-09, 12:45 am
Nope. Not entirely.



Less is more with beginners. When I was a beginner, my arms wouldn't grow with direct stimulus, I dropped the direct movements and focused on rowing, pullup, and face pulls and my arms went from 11 inches to 13 inches pretty quickly.

With an intermediate / advanced persona, sure do both. But beginners don't need it.

While this may be true, a couple set's of biceps isn't going to prevent the guy from growing. Biceps are one of the easiest muscles to "see" working, and, though it may not be physically necessary, better definition or a new vein can provide a huge psychological boost in the mind of a beginner.

Eat.
Pull.
Curl.

In that order. Guaranteed to work every time.

MVP
07-03-09, 12:51 am
While this may be true, a couple set's of biceps isn't going to prevent the guy from growing. Biceps are one of the easiest muscles to "see" working, and, though it may not be physically necessary, better definition or a new vein can provide a huge psychological boost in the mind of a beginner.

Eat.
Pull.
Curl.

In that order. Guaranteed to work every time.

No they won't affect their results negatively. But they can and usually will take emphasis on the more important exercises, someone just do a couple of sets of rows just to get to the curls.

Beginners using compound only training usually end up as the most successful seeing that the routines like Bill Starrs, starting strength and so forth teaches them to use the more important movements. It eventually becomes a habit.

MrMonday
07-03-09, 11:22 am
Nope. Not entirely.

Giving a better a lot of movements is going to take his focus off the primary movements he should be more focused on. If he continues to make increments on his row / pullup, they involve the type of movement as a curl - flexsion at the elbow. The difference being the supinated grip VS pronated.

So you're saying if someone starts bodybuilding correctly in the first place - training EVERYTHING - that by doing curls they are somehow going to forget to do rows and pullups?

Wouldn't it be easier and a lot more productive to tell people to work out everything? The ones who are stupid and will only workout their arms aren't going to come to a website like this with serious bodybuilding goals anyway.

A person who trains hard on both bicep and back work is going to grow a LOT better than someone who only does back, or only does bicep work... so why not explain that upfront?


Less is more with beginners. When I was a beginner, my arms wouldn't grow with direct stimulus, I dropped the direct movements and focused on rowing, pullup, and face pulls and my arms went from 11 inches to 13 inches pretty quickly.

With an intermediate / advanced persona, sure do both. But beginners don't need it.

This made no sense and seems like a fake argument to me.

MVP
07-03-09, 3:21 pm
So you're saying if someone starts bodybuilding correctly in the first place - training EVERYTHING - that by doing curls they are somehow going to forget to do rows and pullups?

Curls aren't needed. They can progress on their pullups and rows making their biceps grow from that, their biceps aren't going to respond anymore from the curls than they are from progressing in rows and pullups. Take powerlifters for example, how many make time to work their biceps? Now look at their arms. My arms went from 13 inches to 15 inches by dropping curls, then 15 to 16.5 by adding curls due to a plateau at the row. Biceps are a small muscle group, it doesn't take much to overload them. Those two movements are all that is necessary at first.


Wouldn't it be easier and a lot more productive to tell people to work out everything? The ones who are stupid and will only workout their arms aren't going to come to a website like this with serious bodybuilding goals anyway.

Nope. It would not be. Me for example, I've never worked my forearms, traps, and calves and they're the most visually impressive muscle groups that I have. Meaning they are worked through the other movements. I spent two years training with all those isolations and got nowhere, it wasn't until I tried Push / Pull / Legs --- which is made up of compound movements, that I began to grow by placing emphasis on the movements that recruited multiple joints.


A person who trains hard on both bicep and back work is going to grow a LOT better than someone who only does back, or only does bicep work... so why not explain that upfront?

That depends on level of experience. If they can progress in their row and pullup with linear increments, their biceps will grow from that. If they can't, then bicep curls will help them progress. Progressive overload requires workout to workout progress, and as long as this principle is being met hypertrophy will occur (with food of course). Progressing in curls too won't do any good, you're already progressing in movements. It'd be pointless, muscle doesn't grow in huge amounts at a time, if that was the case routines would require loads of movements for each body part --- they don't. Barbell rows and pullups both require the same utilization as a bicep curl with the exception of overload at the agonist ---- flexsion at the elbow.


This made no sense and seems like a fake argument to me.

You tend to say stuff like this when you run out of counterarguments, find more productive things to say than "this sucks".

mritter3
07-03-09, 3:23 pm
i prefer to do heavy compound movements and not a whole lot of direct arm work, eat plenty of cals, and get plenty of rest....so far so good.

IronWilson
07-03-09, 3:40 pm
Lets use simple logic here guys.....

If one muscle group is not growing, would the first thing to do be stop training it? It just makes no sense.

Pull-ups and all that help. But they do not work the bicep to a degree that a curl would. And lets be honest, not all of us are going to step on a bodybuilding stage.

I could understand a beginner not being entirely focused on working arms. But to cut them out completely, even for a beginner will not help. Isolation exercises targeting the arms directly should not be a priority over compound movements. However, there is no harm in working arms. You will not sprout inches on your arms magically by dropping arm workouts, it's just not happening.

You might say, "Well, I've seen this powerlifter with gigantic arms and he barely ever trains them." Good for him. Yes he focuses on the compound lifts, and yes, they can give your arms growth. However, he will not (under normal circumstances.) have the aesthetics that most people who weight train are after (whether they know it or not).

And the bottom line is, you have to find what works best for you. Some people's arms just grow when they do a pull up. But if someone is having trouble with the growth of their arms, suggesting that they simply not do it is just plain ridiculous.

MVP
07-03-09, 3:59 pm
Lets use simple logic here guys.....

If one muscle group is not growing, would the first thing to do be stop training it? It just makes no sense.

Re-read my message, I said if you're progressing in your rows. Beginners have the ability to make linear progress.


Pull-ups and all that help. But they do not work the bicep to a degree that a curl would. And lets be honest, not all of us are going to step on a bodybuilding stage.

Beginners aren't on the level of even contemplating a bodybuilding "stage" so having them training like professional bodybuilders isn't logical.


I could understand a beginner not being entirely focused on working arms. But to cut them out completely, even for a beginner will not help. Isolation exercises targeting the arms directly should not be a priority over compound movements. However, there is no harm in working arms. You will not sprout inches on your arms magically by dropping arm workouts, it's just not happening.

As long as they're getting stimulus and gaining weight, yes you will. I dropped arm work and my arms went from 13" to 15", as I said in a recent post. Did you know most olympic guys can't even do Bill Starr 5 X 5 because they gain so much mass it takes them to the next weight class? It involves rowing, look at the progression pictures from that routine, people get phenomenal biceps.


You might say, "Well, I've seen this powerlifter with gigantic arms and he barely ever trains them." Good for him. Yes he focuses on the compound lifts, and yes, they can give your arms growth. However, he will not (under normal circumstances.) have the aesthetics that most people who weight train are after (whether they know it or not).

You can't even use that logic, "Person A VS. Person B", no one is the same.


And the bottom line is, you have to find what works best for you. Some people's arms just grow when they do a pull up. But if someone is having trouble with the growth of their arms, suggesting that they simply not do it is just plain ridiculous.

You're not looking into what I'm saying, I said for a beginner it isn't necessary. Rows and curls both involve flexsion at the elbow, a curl is only a half chin-up anyway. The more stress placed on the muscle the more the muscle works. Beginners need to focus on growing as a whole, they don't need to be isolating anything and compound movements is how you grow as a whole.

IronWilson
07-03-09, 4:21 pm
Re-read my message, I said if you're progressing in your rows. Beginners have the ability to make linear progress.



Beginners aren't on the level of even contemplating a bodybuilding "stage" so having them training like professional bodybuilders isn't logical.



As long as they're getting stimulus and gaining weight, yes you will. I dropped arm work and my arms went from 13" to 15", as I said in a recent post. Did you know most olympic guys can't even do Bill Starr 5 X 5 because they gain so much mass it takes them to the next weight class? It involves rowing, look at the progression pictures from that routine, people get phenomenal biceps.



You can't even use that logic, "Person A VS. Person B", no one is the same.



You're not looking into what I'm saying, I said for a beginner it isn't necessary. Rows and curls both involve flexsion at the elbow, a curl is only a half chin-up anyway. The more stress placed on the muscle the more the muscle works. Beginners need to focus on growing as a whole, they don't need to be isolating anything and compound movements is how you grow as a whole.

I understand what you mean. It wouldn't be a TERRIBLE thing for a beginner to not directly work arms. But if they do a few sets of curls after their back workout, or tricep pushdowns after their chest workout, wouldn't it help a persons arms grow BETTER than if they didn't? That would be optimal.

And my post wasn't directed at you. I'm just tired of hearing how people do something ridiculous and their arms grow. The Squats and Milk program is my favorite that I hear a lot. Sure, you'll grow on it. You'll get pretty decent gains too. You wanna know why?

Because it forces you to train with intensity and consume excessive clean calories! You have a list that you're looking at, and you will not stray from it.... You will do exactly all the exercises with a burning intensity that you are warned about. Why? Because it is motivating in that you are trying a new program that practically guarantees results. In my opinion, it is the placebo effect.

If you were to train with that intensity on your old routine (given that it is sensible.) and consume that many clean calories, you would grow! It is what we have all been told from the beginning, train with intensity and eat a lot of clean calories and you'll grow! Plain and simple.

So, applying it to this situation here. If a person stops training arms and focuses on deadlifts and bench presses and all that jazz, they will grow. They'll grow because they train them with more intensity because they know they are not training arms.

BUT WAIT! What if they trained with the same intensity that they did with those workouts with an arm workout? Wouldn't you think they would get BETTER results.

What we're looking for is OPTIMAL results. Anything can work to some degree, especially with beginners. All it takes is intensity.

MVP
07-03-09, 4:50 pm
I understand what you mean. It wouldn't be a TERRIBLE thing for a beginner to not directly work arms. But if they do a few sets of curls after their back workout, or tricep pushdowns after their chest workout, wouldn't it help a persons arms grow BETTER than if they didn't? That would be optimal.

I never said it would be a bad thing. By "unnecessary" I meant you could make gains without direct arm stimulus, but you're right, the arm stimulus wouldn't negatively affect their goals.


And my post wasn't directed at you. I'm just tired of hearing how people do something ridiculous and their arms grow. The Squats and Milk program is my favorite that I hear a lot. Sure, you'll grow on it. You'll get pretty decent gains too. You wanna know why?

I don't like the squat and milk program either. I'm anything BUT a Mark Rippetoe fan.


Because it forces you to train with intensity and consume excessive clean calories! You have a list that you're looking at, and you will not stray from it.... You will do exactly all the exercises with a burning intensity that you are warned about. Why? Because it is motivating in that you are trying a new program that practically guarantees results. In my opinion, it is the placebo effect.

I agree.


BUT WAIT! What if they trained with the same intensity that they did with those workouts with an arm workout? Wouldn't you think they would get BETTER results.

Depends on their genetic response to stimuli.


What we're looking for is OPTIMAL results. Anything can work to some degree, especially with beginners. All it takes is intensity.

Definitely. Any and every program in the world works, which is why so many people respond to all of them. As long as the movements are there (and nutrition of course) they'll grow from anything.

Ironjaw
07-04-09, 12:47 am
Growth Programs for arms that solely focus on arms themselves dont work ....wortha shit..... combined with a back leg and chest routines to back up the thought the hell ye ya sleeves will bust.... believe me i work arms every other week and focus more on ris when i do them (with another body part as well) and im pullin in the 18 in.... thats me just not trying ..... they grow bigger quicker when your BMI increases as well .... if you see those sleeve buster guys you will also notice they got pecs of a behemoth.... or a damn tortoise shell so bottom line dont fall for hey work out arms like a goof ball harder than any other part and you'll be ripping sleeves in no time.... pure fallacy ....

Peace,
-Jaw

prowrestler
07-04-09, 2:22 pm
i love how every damn training thread turns into COMPOUND VS ISOLATION training....

its kinda sad

GJN5002
07-14-09, 3:21 pm
Growth Programs for arms that solely focus on arms themselves dont work ....wortha shit..... combined with a back leg and chest routines to back up the thought the hell ye ya sleeves will bust.... believe me i work arms every other week and focus more on ris when i do them (with another body part as well) and im pullin in the 18 in.... thats me just not trying ..... they grow bigger quicker when your BMI increases as well .... if you see those sleeve buster guys you will also notice they got pecs of a behemoth.... or a damn tortoise shell so bottom line dont fall for hey work out arms like a goof ball harder than any other part and you'll be ripping sleeves in no time.... pure fallacy ....

Peace,
-Jaw


Thats liek saying everyone with big calves has big quads or everyone with big quads has big calves. Its not true. Many people who have good genetics find that purely compound movements make their arms grow, while people with stubborn arms have to throw everythign at them. Its not different than calves, some guy can walk to the bathroom and their calves grow, people like me hit them once a week, or 4 times a week, with heavy weight, or with light weight, high reps, lows reps and everything in between just to get them to look normal.

All in all your best bet is to do your compounds and throw some curls in for good measure.