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sideburnz
07-13-09, 5:38 am
Bros, this is my sad story on shoulders.. Delts have always been my weak point.. & i always put alotta effort into them.. but the progress is really slow.. i even followed the advices you guys gave me the other time when i posted a thread on delts.. nothing seems to work..it can't be my eating, or sleeping.. cos there are improvements in the other parts of my body.. i'm not tryin to boast or anything but i think i've did all types of variations for delts.. supersets , triple drop sets, heavy laterals, blah blah blah, & i've even kept it simple too, which is what i'm doing currently right now.. i can now only think of one thing, training them twice per week.. i know some people are surely gonna be sceptical about it but i think that just might be the key. pls send your feedbacks thx. & this is my current routine for muthafuckin delts..

Military presses – 3sets
Dumbbell presses – 3sets
Wide-grip upright rows – 3sets
Side laterals – FST-7
Dumbbell shrugs – 2sets


on back day: rear delts - bent over lateral raises - 3sets
- reverse pec dec - 3double dropsets

theharjmann
07-13-09, 5:40 am
just train them once a week

train them hard

heavy overhead pressed are key

give it time

good luck

sunny_max
07-13-09, 6:02 am
hey bro i had that same problem and although i am a natural bodybuilder i followed what it said in the encyclopedia by arnold and it helped me quite a bit...i trained my delts and traps three times a week i.e monday, wednesday and friday just for a mnth with biceps and triceps.........it shocked em up.....and forced em to grow.....although i am not saying its gonan work for u and i am nto the most knowledgable guy up[ here too but this what i followed and it sure helped me.....then again every guy is different...
millitary pressx4
side lateralsx3
heavy upright rowsx3
rear deltsx2
shrugsx4
heavy barbell curlsx3
preacher curlsx3
concentrationx3
close grip benchx3
french pressx3
pushdowns or dipsx3
i used to change the exercises every week...this is just to give u an an idea....
tues, thurs and sat i wld do chest and back supersets in day and legs in eve..
i din do this for over a period of 4 weeks cause of the risk of overtraining but it sure did help me bud.........

Big Wides
07-13-09, 6:08 am
No need to hit them on back day, keep your shoulder movements to one day only. There is absoultley no need to do them twice a week, since when you do heavy chest presses, back work, and leg work you are hitting your shoulders. Yes even on leg day, what do you think helps you hold onto the squat bar? This is just me, but try this for shoulders, for reps keep it anywhere from 100 down to 1 since in my mind there is no "set" rep range to stimulate growth, if you get reps easy, then add more weight and make it harder:

Seated Front Mils - 5 sets (keep the weight heavy)
Side Raises - 4 sets
Rear Delts - 4 sets
Seated Cleans - 3 sets
Barbell Shrugs - 5 sets

Do this or not but find something and stick to it for 6 to 8 weeks, eat your face off and train smartly. Also keep shoulders about 72 hours either before or after chest day

sideburnz
07-13-09, 6:48 am
i was just thinking of adding rear delts to my delts routine as i already do it on back day, which means i train them twice. Plus, im just thinking of doing 6sets sets of lateral raises on one of the off days at home, & make sure they are far apart from the shoulder day. What do you guys think.

Big Wides
07-13-09, 7:13 am
i was just thinking of adding rear delts to my delts routine as i already do it on back day, which means i train them twice. Plus, im just thinking of doing 6sets sets of lateral raises on one of the off days at home, & make sure they are far apart from the shoulder day. What do you guys think.

I wouldnt do it, keep your rear delts on delt days and concentrate on your back movements on back day. Your rear delts get hit indirectly on back day so there is no need to train them again. Also doing the 6 sets of lateral raises on an off day is not a good idea. You do not grow in the gym, you grow outside of it when you give the muscle time to rest and repair. For what you are proposing its a real bad idea in my opinion. Keep shoulder training on shoudler day....

Pizzalamp
07-13-09, 7:25 am
i would stop training them for about 2 weeks...then start training them again...once a week w good perfect form...i wouldnt go over 10 sets total

71bbo455
07-13-09, 7:39 am
I agree with BW and Pizza. Try taking a few weeks off and then get back and hit them heavy and hard once per week. Sometimes the body needs a little rest and then they really react to some serious training. Good luck with whatever you try.

CuttDeez
07-13-09, 7:54 am
i would stop training them for about 2 weeks...then start training them again...once a week w good perfect form...i wouldnt go over 10 sets total

I agree they are so easy to overtrain

Burke Knapp
07-13-09, 8:36 am
You see results in other areas because they are the ones that need help,keep poundn the iron and youll eventually see the areas you want get bigger but you got to be patient and dedicated! Good Luck Bro!

Hollow
07-13-09, 9:02 am
Do this or not but find something and stick to it for 6 to 8 weeks, eat your face off and train smartly. Also keep shoulders about 72 hours either before or after chest day

Stick with what Big Wides has laid out for you and give yourself more time. It’s not going to happen over a couple of weeks. Just my two cents.

Fury317
07-13-09, 9:17 am
What does your diet look like? So many people struggle with certain bodyparts (myself included!) and think they need to beat that muscle to a bloody pulp to make it grow. If you continually tear the muscle down and you are not supplying enough or more than enough nutrients, it will not grow, plain and simple. You want to get some massive boulder shoulders, and have a nasty pair of wheels and a thick back to gowith it? Train simple, train heavy, and eat like a fucking madman.

shizz702
07-13-09, 10:25 am
How much are you military pressing?

If you are still relatively new to this, focus on strength right now, and size will come. I know from my own experience once I got up to about 75% bw for reps on the standing press my shoulders had came a long way.

sideburnz
07-13-09, 10:38 am
How much are you military pressing?

If you are still relatively new to this, focus on strength right now, and size will come. I know from my own experience once I got up to about 75% bw for reps on the standing press my shoulders had came a long way.

I weigh at 145.. and my militaries are at 77.

shizz702
07-13-09, 10:45 am
I weigh at 145.. and my militaries are at 77.

Get that military press up bro, it is one of the most productive upper body exercises you can do, and the best for your shoulders. I bet if you get it up to 110+ for reps you'll see some more size in your delts.

I wouldn't worry to much about assistance work for you shoulders, instead I'd just focus on building your base with the press.

sideburnz
07-13-09, 10:54 am
Get that military press up bro, it is one of the most productive upper body exercises you can do, and the best for your shoulders. I bet if you get it up to 110+ for reps you'll see some more size in your delts.

I wouldn't worry to much about assistance work for you shoulders, instead I'd just focus on building your base with the press.

But i thought militaries hit 80% of the anterior delts only?

shizz702
07-13-09, 11:07 am
The military press hits all heads of the delts, I wouldn't worry too much about isolating your rear delts or any of the like right now, instead I would just focus on getting that press up.

ghost
07-13-09, 12:14 pm
The military press hits all heads of the delts, I wouldn't worry too much about isolating your rear delts or any of the like right now, instead I would just focus on getting that press up.

x2

right now i am doing the 5/3/1 program, and the only shoulder work it has in there is Pull ups, and military press. my bb mil press has definitely gone up since starting this.

live2lift
07-13-09, 1:36 pm
First of all stop worrying about what part of the delt is being hit with certain exercises...just lift heavy, basic movements and if you are going to train them twice a week then lower your volume to less than 10 sets per session. Anything more and would risk overtraining them, which is what you dont want. Keep your workouts simple and heavy and you should be solid.

Peace

prowrestler
07-13-09, 1:52 pm
problem. your military pressing 77lbs.

i think i know why your not satisfied with your shoulders...

you need to get that up. try 1 week push pressing, the other week strict pressing. ill give u ur shoulder days..


week 1. pushpress,4 sets of 12,8,6,4 . then do strict side delt raises, 4 sets of 10
week 2. strict press,4 sets of 12,10,8,6. then do strict 1 arm db raises,4 sets of 12

do rear delts after back. 4 sets of rev flys does the job normaly.

OH YA, just so theres no confusion, you add weight to the bar each set as the reps go down...

sideburnz
07-14-09, 2:27 am
problem. your military pressing 77lbs.

i think i know why your not satisfied with your shoulders...

you need to get that up. try 1 week push pressing, the other week strict pressing. ill give u ur shoulder days..


week 1. pushpress,4 sets of 12,8,6,4 . then do strict side delt raises, 4 sets of 10
week 2. strict press,4 sets of 12,10,8,6. then do strict 1 arm db raises,4 sets of 12

do rear delts after back. 4 sets of rev flys does the job normaly.

OH YA, just so theres no confusion, you add weight to the bar each set as the reps go down...

actually i can bench about 174.. so militaries shouldn't be problem but i just have problem bringing the bar up to do the presses.. as it takes alot on the biceps..

Jonisocool
07-14-09, 2:55 am
actually i can bench about 174.. so militaries shouldn't be problem but i just have problem bringing the bar up to do the presses.. as it takes alot on the biceps..

set up the bar on the outside of the squat rack like you're setting up for a front squat then.

or clean and jerk it.

Kingquads
07-14-09, 3:23 am
I weigh at 145.. and my militaries are at 77.

you weigh 145?! eat more bro.....its prolly not even the training its your lack of calories....

plus your young right? do you know any teens that have nice delts? I know i dont, delts will come over years of training, just keep it basic and train your whole shoulder on shoulder day, do what big wides mentioned.

whosnexttt
07-14-09, 3:26 am
Bros, this is my sad story on shoulders.. Delts have always been my weak point.. & i always put alotta effort into them.. but the progress is really slow.. i even followed the advices you guys gave me the other time when i posted a thread on delts.. nothing seems to work..it can't be my eating, or sleeping.. cos there are improvements in the other parts of my body.. i'm not tryin to boast or anything but i think i've did all types of variations for delts.. supersets , triple drop sets, heavy laterals, blah blah blah, & i've even kept it simple too, which is what i'm doing currently right now.. i can now only think of one thing, training them twice per week.. i know some people are surely gonna be sceptical about it but i think that just might be the key. pls send your feedbacks thx. & this is my current routine for muthafuckin delts..

Military presses – 3sets
Dumbbell presses – 3sets
Wide-grip upright rows – 3sets
Side laterals – FST-7
Dumbbell shrugs – 2sets


on back day: rear delts - bent over lateral raises - 3sets
- reverse pec dec - 3double dropsets

Keep it basic my man, take that fst-7 outa there, don't you wanna grow?!?! lol

prowrestler
07-14-09, 3:31 am
actually i can bench about 174.. so militaries shouldn't be problem but i just have problem bringing the bar up to do the presses.. as it takes alot on the biceps..

....i donno what u benchin 174 has to do with anythin but fine lol

and start the bar in a squat rack.

theharjmann
07-14-09, 3:40 am
I weigh at 145.. and my militaries are at 77.

Dude

no offence, but you weigh fuck all! No wonder you dont have any muscle mass

eat for fuck sake!

sideburnz
07-14-09, 3:49 am
im just at 5'3 / 1.64m bros.. & 145 is an acceptable weight.. & im 22..

whosnexttt
07-14-09, 3:49 am
I weigh at 145.. and my militaries are at 77.

Your military presses are at 77? Well theres your problem, you should do a little powerlifting for a while and get those numbers up, look up westside barbell sample routine, heavy poundages will equal in bigger size when you go back to a bodybuilding split, not trying to bash on ya man but your training like a pro bodybuilder, for you that is bad, you gota stick to the basics first and get your numbers up, get strong my friend then worry about all these other exercises to forge your body into something spectacular, maybe if you were pressing more you wouldnt have this problem most likely but you weigh 145 and as you said your mils are at 77 and your bench is around 174? GET THOSE NUMBERS UP! DONT TRY TO TRAIN LIKE A PROBODYBUILDER WHEN YOU ONLY PRESS A LITTLE BIT, dont take this into offense but what im telling you is the hardcore truth, if you accept the truth and if you take my advice youl succeed, trust me ive told people the same thing i just told you and they ALL got stronger and eventually succeeded their goals in weight training.

P.S. just trying to help you....

theharjmann
07-14-09, 3:52 am
Your military presses are at 77? Well theres your problem, you should do a little powerlifting for a while and get those numbers up, look up westside barbell sample routine, heavy poundages will equal in bigger size when you go back to a bodybuilding split, not trying to bash on ya man but your training like a pro bodybuilder, for you that is bad, you gota stick to the basics first and get your numbers up, get strong my friend then worry about all these other exercises to forge your body into something spectacular, maybe if you were pressing more you wouldnt have this problem most likely but you weigh 145 and as you said your mils are at 77 and your bench is around 174? GET THOSE NUMBERS UP! DONT TRY TO TRAIN LIKE A PROBODYBUILDER WHEN YOU ONLY PRESS A LITTLE BIT, dont take this into offense but what im telling you is the hardcore truth, if you accept the truth and if you take my advice youl succeed, trust me ive told people the same thing i just told you and they ALL got stronger and eventually succeeded their goals in weight training.

P.S. just trying to help you....

Agreed

Also, if you are only 5ft 3 then you should be benching a hell of a lot more since your arms are shorter.

If you think that a 145 lbs bodyweight is acceptable...then mentally you are NEVER gonna progress. Stick to knitting or something

sideburnz
07-14-09, 3:57 am
Agreed

Also, if you are only 5ft 3 then you should be benching a hell of a lot more since your arms are shorter.

If you think that a 145 lbs bodyweight is acceptable...then mentally you are NEVER gonna progress. Stick to knitting or something

i was saying in the sense of bmi.. im on acceptable weight..

theharjmann
07-14-09, 4:02 am
Bro,

BMI is the biggest bunch of bullshit. BMI is for the average office worker who never exercises.

If we went by BMI, every single rugby player, american football player, bodybuilder, powerlifter would be classified as clinically obese!

whosnexttt
07-14-09, 4:03 am
im just at 5'3 / 1.64m bros.. & 145 is an acceptable weight.. & im 22..

your 5'3 and your saying 145 is an ACCEPTABLE weight?!!?!!? you just dont realise when your bodyweight goes up you will gain more muscle size, meaning eat more!!! eating more will literally get you bigger and stronger, you wont get super fat dont worry,

here i made a special diet just for you

meal 1
4 whole eggs
1 serv oatmeal

meal 2
chicken or fish sandwhich or pasta

meal 3
50-100g of protein from shakes or food
100g complex carbs

meal 4
same as meal 3
except only 30-50g of carbs

meal 5
same as meal 3

meal 6
steak or chicken
1 potato

before bed meal

for you eat a fucking burger why dont ya.....you need it.....not joking it taste good plus itl help with muscle mass

if your 145 pound ass wakes up in the middle of the night

eat some kind of meat or fish or chicken then down 2 glasses of milk

Big Wides
07-14-09, 6:03 am
Keep it civil in here guys, no need to go down the road I see this heading. He asked for help, provide it don't make a big deal out of the small shit. Offer sound advice to help, remember everyone starts somewhere.

sideburnz
07-14-09, 7:05 am
Keep it basic my man, take that fst-7 outa there, don't you wanna grow?!?! lol

I don't get it.. whats wrong in doing fst-7? u rest for 40 secs and get the next set going.. is there anything wrong with that?

sideburnz
07-14-09, 7:11 am
as for the rest of the guys.. even if some of the comments weren't positive.. il take heed to ya guys' advices.. thx.

theharjmann
07-14-09, 7:38 am
as for the rest of the guys.. even if some of the comments weren't positive.. il take heed to ya guys' advices.. thx.

just remember to eat eat and fucking eat some more man

read this for inspiration

http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?section=diet&ID=321

Fury317
07-14-09, 9:42 am
I just kinda want to touch on BMI, because youre not the only one who tends to be confused on that subject. Most people think they need to fall into the "healthy" category, but as another guy posted, there are circumstances that BMI does not even apply- such as weightlifting or men/women with extreme muscle mass.

BMI was created as a general guideline for the average person. Use me as an example if you want. I'm 5'10, 230lbs. I work at a gym and regularly can get my BMI/ bodyfat tested. My BMI is 32- Obese category I. My bodyfat on the other hand is only 16-17%. WHen I go the doctor, Im told Im as healthy as they come. But if an average Joe would was 5'10'' and weighed 230 with 35% BF, thats when BMI can be used. Make sense?

So dont worry at all about BMI, focus more on body fat percentage, but to be honest at this stage in your training you dont really have to worry about that either. You just have to eat clean and eat a lot. Pack away the calories my man! Soon youll see the weights going up in the gym, followed by the muscles growing like crazy.

Eat things like eggs, chicken, turkey, steak, ground beef, yams, potatos, rice, oatmeal, with some fats in there like natural peanut butter and olive oil. 5-6 times a day, probably around 400-500 cals per meal.

sideburnz
07-14-09, 10:49 am
I just kinda want to touch on BMI, because youre not the only one who tends to be confused on that subject. Most people think they need to fall into the "healthy" category, but as another guy posted, there are circumstances that BMI does not even apply- such as weightlifting or men/women with extreme muscle mass.

BMI was created as a general guideline for the average person. Use me as an example if you want. I'm 5'10, 230lbs. I work at a gym and regularly can get my BMI/ bodyfat tested. My BMI is 32- Obese category I. My bodyfat on the other hand is only 16-17%. WHen I go the doctor, Im told Im as healthy as they come. But if an average Joe would was 5'10'' and weighed 230 with 35% BF, thats when BMI can be used. Make sense?

So dont worry at all about BMI, focus more on body fat percentage, but to be honest at this stage in your training you dont really have to worry about that either. You just have to eat clean and eat a lot. Pack away the calories my man! Soon youll see the weights going up in the gym, followed by the muscles growing like crazy.

Eat things like eggs, chicken, turkey, steak, ground beef, yams, potatos, rice, oatmeal, with some fats in there like natural peanut butter and olive oil. 5-6 times a day, probably around 400-500 cals per meal.

Thanks bro it did make sense.. i just wanna say that unlike most ppl here i dont wanna have an incredible bulk.. i wanna do a lean bulk.. yes i do wanna gain muscle n weight but the weight shouldn't go way up..

calcaneous
07-14-09, 11:29 am
problem. your military pressing 77lbs.

i think i know why your not satisfied with your shoulders...

you need to get that up. try 1 week push pressing, the other week strict pressing. ill give u ur shoulder days..


week 1. pushpress,4 sets of 12,8,6,4 . then do strict side delt raises, 4 sets of 10
week 2. strict press,4 sets of 12,10,8,6. then do strict 1 arm db raises,4 sets of 12

do rear delts after back. 4 sets of rev flys does the job normaly.

OH YA, just so theres no confusion, you add weight to the bar each set as the reps go down...


great advice there pro. i love my push-presses.


for about 2 months, i never really had a "shoulder" day. at the end of chest day, i would do l 3/4 sets of side delt raises and at the end of back day some rear delt raises. The shoulders do get beat on whenever you do chest/back movements.

whosnexttt
07-14-09, 6:03 pm
I don't get it.. whats wrong in doing fst-7? u rest for 40 secs and get the next set going.. is there anything wrong with that?

you just dont get it.......you have to realise less is better

fst-7 is used by probodybuilders that already have a satisfied physique, like i know phil heath, mark alvisi uses it, but see they already build of there bodies, there not doing fst-7 to get big......

fst-7 for you sideburnz is too much, that may be one of the reasons why your not seeing any results, just dont do it until you build up some quality muscle,

FST-7 IS NOT FOR BUILDING MUSCLE


you learn something new everyday dont ya? haha

good luck and keep it basic

here i know your not man enough to do a powerlifting type routine to get those numbers up so ill make you a basic split that will help, all these exercises have been proven to work since the start of time.


Chest-
Bench Press
Incline Press
Weighted Dips

Back-
Chin- ups
Barbell or Dumbbell Row
T-bar Row
Deadlifts

rest

Shoulders,traps-
Military Press (standing or seated)
bent over dumbbell lateral
front barbell raises
dumbbell side laterals
barbell or dumbbell shrugs

Arms-
Close Grip Bench Press
Weighted Dips
Lying Bar or ez-bar Skullcrusher

Barbell Curl or Dumbbell Curl
Dumbbell Hammer Curl
Preacher Curl

Legs-

Squats or Front Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Lunges
Stiff-leg deadlifts

rest

MVP
07-14-09, 6:38 pm
you just dont get it.......you have to realise less is better

fst-7 is used by probodybuilders that already have a satisfied physique, like i know phil heath, mark alvisi uses it, but see they already build of there bodies, there not doing fst-7 to get big......

fst-7 for you sideburnz is too much, that may be one of the reasons why your not seeing any results, just dont do it until you build up some quality muscle,

FST-7 IS NOT FOR BUILDING MUSCLE


you learn something new everyday dont ya? haha

good luck and keep it basic

here i know your not man enough to do a powerlifting type routine to get those numbers up so ill make you a basic split that will help, all these exercises have been proven to work since the start of time.


Chest-
Bench Press
Incline Press
Weighted Dips

Back-
Chin- ups
Barbell or Dumbbell Row
T-bar Row
Deadlifts

rest

Shoulders,traps-
Military Press (standing or seated)
bent over dumbbell lateral
front barbell raises
dumbbell side laterals
barbell or dumbbell shrugs

Arms-
Close Grip Bench Press
Weighted Dips
Lying Bar or ez-bar Skullcrusher

Barbell Curl or Dumbbell Curl
Dumbbell Hammer Curl
Preacher Curl

Legs-

Squats or Front Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Lunges
Stiff-leg deadlifts

rest

I agree with your advice, what I don't agree with though is dips on an arm day. Dips are a chest exercise, your triceps aren't capable of moving the resistance of your bodyweight alone. Second, I would eliminate hammer curls and replace the weighted dips (as mentioned) with triceps extensions.

The leg day looks fine except it is too quad dependent. I would switch the lunges for hamstring curls. The rest looks good - I would just eliminate the front raises on shoulder day, that will lead to imbalanced shoulders since each delt is not getting hit equally.

Also, there's no such thing as a seated military press, military press and overhead press is not the same. Military press requires feet together so the core has to work harder to stabilize your torso, overhead press gives a wider stance so it's less core dependent.

71bbo455
07-14-09, 8:45 pm
Sideburnz:

Don't give up man. Keep at it. I know it's frustrating but they will come. Try and take some of the advice of the great brothers on this board and see what happens. I like the idea of backing off a little bit and work on getting your presses up. If you give up they will never come. Speaking from some experience when I had a lagging area it would take a long time but once they respond they respond reallly well. You will see some serious growth in a short period of time. Just keep at it brother.

sideburnz
07-15-09, 12:26 am
I agree with your advice, what I don't agree with though is dips on an arm day. Dips are a chest exercise, your triceps aren't capable of moving the resistance of your bodyweight alone. Second, I would eliminate hammer curls and replace the weighted dips (as mentioned) with triceps extensions.

The leg day looks fine except it is too quad dependent. I would switch the lunges for hamstring curls. The rest looks good - I would just eliminate the front raises on shoulder day, that will lead to imbalanced shoulders since each delt is not getting hit equally.

Also, there's no such thing as a seated military press, military press and overhead press is not the same. Military press requires feet together so the core has to work harder to stabilize your torso, overhead press gives a wider stance so it's less core dependent.

bro dips works all three heads of the triceps.. it's a must.. just don't keep your head forward and most of the pressure is onto the Tris..

MVP
07-15-09, 1:00 am
bro dips works all three heads of the triceps.. it's a must.. just don't keep your head forward and most of the pressure is onto the Tris..

Work the triceps? Yes. Why does it work the triceps? Because it involves extension at the elbow, the triceps are responsible for this movement.

In most compound movements there is an agonist muscle (prime mover) in this case it's the chest - not the triceps. There's a variety of synergists (muscles that assists other muscles in their function) in this case it's the triceps), an antagonist muscle (muscle that performs the opposing force as the agonist), and of course stabilizers (muscles that stabilize specific joints so another joints can perform a desired range of motion).

Triceps aren't capable of lifting your bodyweight alone, the chest is the prime mover.

As stated here - the agonist is the sternal head of the pectoralis major. http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html

A synergist and agonist are worked a different degrees.

rippedC
07-15-09, 2:28 am
Work the triceps? Yes. Why does it work the triceps? Because it involves extension at the elbow, the triceps are responsible for this movement.

In most compound movements there is an agonist muscle (prime mover) in this case it's the chest - not the triceps. There's a variety of synergists (muscles that assists other muscles in their function) in this case it's the triceps), an antagonist muscle (muscle that performs the opposing force as the agonist), and of course stabilizers (muscles that stabilize specific joints so another joints can perform a desired range of motion).

Triceps aren't capable of lifting your bodyweight alone, the chest is the prime mover.

As stated here - the agonist is the sternal head of the pectoralis major. http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/WtChestDip.html

A synergist and agonist are worked a different degrees.

if you lean back it hits all triceps

MVP
07-15-09, 3:04 am
if you lean back it hits all triceps

Not accurate. It takes tension off the chest, but once again - the triceps aren't capable of moving your bodyweight alone. I'll use an example and say go do a skull crusher X amount of times with your bodyweight, when they are completely isolated they cannot do so.

The chest is the agonist, more and less tension can be placed on the chest depended upon technique; but you cannot move the resistance of your own bodyweight for reps utilizing just your triceps. Unless you are seriously strong.

The same thing is mistaken with chin-ups; they are NOT bicep dominant. You cannot curl your bodyweight, your biceps aren't capable of moving your weight, the prime function of the lats is overhead pulling, the biceps work slightly harder due the supinated grip - but they're not bicep dominant.

rippedC
07-15-09, 3:22 am
Not accurate. It takes tension off the chest, but once again - the triceps aren't capable of moving your bodyweight alone. I'll use an example and say go do a skull crusher X amount of times with your bodyweight, when they are completely isolated they cannot do so.

The chest is the agonist, more and less tension can be placed on the chest depended upon technique; but you cannot move the resistance of your own bodyweight for reps utilizing just your triceps. Unless you are seriously strong.

The same thing is mistaken with chin-ups; they are NOT bicep dominant. You cannot curl your bodyweight, your biceps aren't capable of moving your weight, the prime function of the lats is overhead pulling, the biceps work slightly harder due the supinated grip - but they're not bicep dominant.

that is true but dips are a great compound move for triceps

MVP
07-15-09, 3:28 am
that is true but dips are a great compound move for triceps

Yep, they are. They are phenomenal for the triceps; my moral was they're not the agonist muscle during dips. The agonist is the chest. Triceps are just synergists, although they are overloaded and worked significantly.

DreamZero
07-15-09, 12:19 pm
I had the same problem and olympic lifts did wonders for me. Strength went up first, then size. Like batshit crazy gains.

sideburnz
07-16-09, 9:07 am
hey bros... just wanna let ya guys know that i followed you're advices and concentrated on heavy presses... as you guys know i used to be pressing 77.. today was shoulder day.. and i hit 110 with 7 strict reps reps.. as for the laterals i quit the fst-7 and did drop sets instead.. hope to improve soon..

Woolsey
07-16-09, 10:30 am
Man just fuck it up with 10 sets of heavy military presses! Try and hit failure around 6 reps each time! good luck

sideburnz
07-16-09, 10:52 am
Man just fuck it up with 10 sets of heavy military presses! Try and hit failure around 6 reps each time! good luck

bro 10sets is simply madness bro..i need 2 do laterals too and also for my lagging rear delts.. thus i have to have some sorta fuel left after presses..

Razor
07-16-09, 2:19 pm
My advice bro, because ive experienced this with stubborn arms, is to lay low for abit. Like take 2 weeks off of doing shoulders. See how they behave after that. For me i got great results when i came back on arms day and actually went up in almost every exercise.

shizz702
07-16-09, 8:10 pm
hey bros... just wanna let ya guys know that i followed you're advices and concentrated on heavy presses... as you guys know i used to be pressing 77.. today was shoulder day.. and i hit 110 with 7 strict reps reps.. as for the laterals i quit the fst-7 and did drop sets instead.. hope to improve soon..

Good shit bro, up your weight on it (and all other compound lifts) consistently and you will force your body to grow!

live2lift
07-17-09, 11:32 am
bro 10sets is simply madness bro..i need 2 do laterals too and also for my lagging rear delts.. thus i have to have some sorta fuel left after presses..

You may think its madness to do that many sets of presses but I think he was referring to doing only presses for your workout. In my honest opinion by this post and others you have posted, I think that you are overcomplicating things...always remember the KISS theory...keep it simple stupid (no I am not calling you stupid, thats just the saying). I think you are worrying too much about what exercise works what part of the delt. Maybe what you need is to only do compound moves, such as military presses for a little bit to build up some mass. Once you have the size you desire then you can refine the muscle with more isolation exercises. Give it a try brotha...what do you have to lose. Oh yeah, I remember this one dude I used to know who had some of the best delts I have ever seen and all he did for them was Military presses and upright rows...simple, basic, proven shit.

Peace