The Cardio Thread

[A.FITNESSGUY]

Does walking on an incline burn the same amount of fat as running?
We as bodybuilders, should we really be running to burn fat? Doesnt running burn in to the muscle we work so hard to build? Discuss.

[rcrott1]

it really depends at what intensity you are walking at...i mean if you are just lollygaggin on the fuckin treadmill.....then dont bother.
If you are walking at a steep incline with higher speed walks, it can create the same effect as running on a straight surface,...although you will notice it hitting your calves more

[Wolf Man CHG]

Just monitor your heartrate...many machines will have a grid that outline what heartrate is considered "fat burn" or "cardio" or "endurance". The key is to get an intensity that keeps your heartrate in that "fat burn" mode.

[determined]

Just like in the weight room, if you are not putting everything you got into it, you might as well pack up and go home.

Set your intensity level to "ALL YOU GOT", then you never have to worry about not doing enough.

[Freakshow]

Just monitor your heartrate...many machines will have a grid that outline what heartrate is considered "fat burn" or "cardio" or "endurance". The key is to get an intensity that keeps your heartrate in that "fat burn" mode.

Agreed. If you want to know if you are burning the fat, get your target heart rate and stay above it while you are walking. FreakShow

[The Saint]

I always been a runner, I used to run 10 km a few times a week, running was a way of life...I needed it, until I hit the big 40 then I tried running on the treadmill for 2 min and hated it. One day I tried the eleptic and loved it (been doing since). In august got operated for a hernia l4-l5, short story, one month later i'm walking the treadmill for 45 min minimum...Now I'm addicted to it and do 45 min every day since. (full inclined and the hr at around 160 for the full walk).

Trust me, that enough to be lean.

[thatguy22]

how much cardio is to much? I want to loose some fat, but definately don't want to loose any muscle. what's worked for you?

[Jon]

Listen to your body... I doubt that you do too much; unless ur at a really low percentage BF and barely eat during the day

[bigjay]

give us a little more details to work with

[thatguy22]

im 19 and 6'2 about 192. I'm fairly lean and looking to add more size but want loose fat at the same time. Lately, I've been doing about 25-30 mins of hard cardio and abs every other day. I don't want to loose any muscle, whats about the right amount of cardio to do?

[hscrugger]

do 25-30 minutes of high HR cardio immediately after lifting, every time you lift.

brennan

[Karma]

do 25-30 minutes of high HR cardio immediately after lifting, every time you lift.

brennan
25-30 minutes after lifting should be ok to lose that extra pounds thatguy. Be cautious with your diet to. Diet and cardio are the both faces of the same coin when it’s time to cut those extra pounds.

Anyway …
give us a little more details to work with

[ldskenpo]

most of the guys that come through here say they think they get more out of humping than running, by reg we have to keep them at around a 17-20 min mile though. when they get to a unit they will be expected to do less than a 15 min mile with a whole lot more weight. here i think we max out at 55 pound rucks

[thatguy22]

thanks guys

[Rotlex]

What usually works best for me is 20 minutes moderate cardio, incline walking at a good pace, stationary bike etc. immediately following my workout. I try to keep my heart rate in that 70% zone as well. I've never seen any need to do anything more than this so get\stay lean. IMO, diet is the top factor in that.

[50rider]

Ok Guys im not gonna lie i hate cardio. and i dont know how to push myself to do it. I have to have it i understand somebody plz give me some pointers.

[BrianB]

to keep it interesting i'll adjust the speed every 5 min or so, ill listen to music, watch the tv...
basically just dont think about it too much since you know you have to do it. just get in the zone and take care of business

[remanufactured110402]

I have to have the mp3 player pummeling my brain with Disturbed, Fear Factory, Lamb of God, etc. and I read the close captioning on the TV (usually the news) at the same time. It's the only way that I can keep my brain distracted from the pain and drudgery that is the mill.

[karmazon]

Am I the only person here that actually enjoys cardio? I hate running on a treadmill or anything stationary. I go run outside, through the streets, hiking paths and beaches while listening to my ipod. It's fun.

[PlacentiaBay]

I enjoy cardio when I can get outside to do with the snow and the rain. But if I can't get outside I can be found on the stationary bike in my room. The T.V helps but nothing beats the ipod. Best 170 bucks I ever spent.

[Ammotroop]

I enjoy cardio! But at the same time, I cant lift and do cardio in the same session. If I do one or the other suffers.

[karmazon]

I enjoy cardio! But at the same time, I cant lift and do cardio in the same session. If I do one or the other suffers.

Do cardio after lifting.

[Hellreaver]

I have always hated cardio, and with two bum knees it's been difficult to do any cardio for so long. Just recently, I tried out the eliptical-style machines. Less stress on my knees, which means I can go longer, and it actually feels good to get back into cardio! I crank the mp3 player and just rock that shit! Like karmazon said, cardio is best saved for after a grueling workout. Make extra certain that you stay hydrated. Peace out.

[Sixblack]

Do cardio after lifting.

Agreed. I've always heard that if you lift first you're depleting energy stores forcing your body to burn fat for fuel when you get to cardio.

[Wonderwheels]

Not to stray too far from the discussion but, for cardio, arent we suppose to just be walking and not running? My personal trainer said running would exert my body too much, burning off muscle, esp on my quads. So I have always just done a upbeat walk for no more than 40 minutes at a time. This way I am hopefully burning fat and not muscle. Running for me would be horrible on my quads. And lets face it, legs are hard to build and we dont want to sacrifice the wheels!

[YeaILift]

I bought a treadmill for my house I turn my stereo all the way up and get after it. The mirror is my motivation we can always look better we just have to push ourselves.

[Sixblack]

Not to stray too far from the discussion but, for cardio, arent we suppose to just be walking and not running? My personal trainer said running would exert my body too much, burning off muscle, esp on my quads. So I have always just done a upbeat walk for no more than 40 minutes at a time. This way I am hopefully burning fat and not muscle. Running for me would be horrible on my quads. And lets face it, legs are hard to build and we dont want to sacrifice the wheels!

From what I understand LISS is what can cause muscle loss. Try doing HIIT instead.

Look at the people that do LISS. Marathon runners, bicyclists, etc all fairly skinny guys.

People that do HIIT are American Football players and such. Short bursts of high intensity then low then back to high...

[Sorrow]

I'm an MMA fan, and honestly I use a heavy bag more than a stationary bike or mill. Do three five minute rounds slamming the bag. You'll feel it. Also try not to stay stationary move around while your placing your punches/kicks.

I'd recomend you give it a try at least once. It may help break things up a little so you dont feel like your doing the same things over and over.

[gBloodWill3]

I know it's best to do cardio that's 65-70% of my max heart rate for fat burning, so is doing cardio at a higher intensity than this counterproductive when trying to burn fat?

[Evaniel]

I'm not sure if it's counterproductive per se, but most bodybuilders I've heard of stay way from rigorous cardio; a lot of them feel that it interferes with recovery.

I imagine you could supplement low intensity cardio with a once a week session of high intensity interval training, which will burn fat and increase your cardiovascular endurance.

Hope this helps!

[WaNNaBeSoLDieR]

This is how I explain it to people:

Working at the so-called 'fat burning' zone, your body burns about 60-65% of calories from fat. Working above that zone, your body burns less and less of the calories from fat (about 35%)...however, working within a higher heart zone burns more calories overall...

Therefore, if you burn, say 100 calories in 10 minutes working within your fat burning zone, about 65 of those calories will be from fat. However, you might burn 200 calories in that same 10 minutes working at a higher intensity, and about 70 of those calories will be from fat. (The calorie amounts are hypothetical and used for ease of math). Just be forewarned that you may be putting your body in a catabolic state if you're constantly working at higher intensities when doing cardio.

...I hope I didn't ramble too much explaining that.

[Wolf Man CHG]

This is how I explain it to people:

Working at the so-called 'fat burning' zone, your body burns about 60-65% of calories from fat. Working above that zone, your body burns less and less of the calories from fat (about 35%)...however, working within a higher heart zone burns more calories overall...

Therefore, if you burn, say 100 calories in 10 minutes working within your fat burning zone, about 65 of those calories will be from fat. However, you might burn 200 calories in that same 10 minutes working at a higher intensity, and about 70 of those calories will be from fat. (The calorie amounts are hypothetical and used for ease of math). Just be forewarned that you may be putting your body in a catabolic state if you're constantly working at higher intensities when doing cardio.

...I hope I didn't ramble too much explaining that.

thanks for the input

[gBloodWill3]

So walking on a treadmill at 4 mph at an incline burns more fat calories than say a steady jog at 6.0 mph. Then what good is jogging rigourously at 6.0 mph causing my heart rate to beat at 80-85% of my mhr if it burns less fat calories (for 20-30 minutes) when my main goal is fat loss?

I understand that intervals are very effective in raising the metabolism but the heart rate is only elevated at a high rate for a short time (such as sprinting for intervals of 20 seconds and resting for a full sixty). Are intervals also more responsible for using glycogen for energy rather than fat?

[karmazon]

Then what good is jogging rigourously at 6.0 mph causing my heart rate to beat at 80-85% of my mhr if it burns less fat calories (for 20-30 minutes) when my main goal is fat loss?



Because the only way to lose weight is to have a caloric deficit, and higher intensity cardio burns more calories.

[LurkingBeast]

Because the only way to lose weight is to have a caloric deficit, and higher intensity cardio burns more calories.

This is true. And I am alwayse looking to learn more about this subject myself. However, the thing about cardio is that when you do HIGH HEART RATE cardio is that it tends to burn up the energy available to your body in the form of calories/simple carbs(as they are available for quick energy.Unless unused then turn right to fat storage) and so on. Which yes, calories are what you want to get rid of. But, on the other hand Lower Heart rated cardio will burn off calories(though they be less) but will use up the fat storages for energy that are already in the body and you want to get rid of. I'm not saying HI(HighIntensity) is bad once in a while. I think it can be good to make 1 of your 3 cardio day's a week a switch-up. But from the research I've done, it points to doing cardio on a bit lower HR to activate the fat storages you've already got, and get your diet down to stop yourself from getting any larger. Since HI will mainly work off the food your taking in for energy, and lower HR will eat off of the body's fat storage. As a side effect of HI, it also robs your body of the essentials at hand to continue building muscle. Just something to think about.

[hjayss]

I like what you put very iniformative. To add to that I have heard you burn about 300% more calories if you are on an empty gut. Me I am never on e so I do not know I eat aroun 8 times a day only way I can gain or keep on weight.

[joe.ameen]

Personally, I love running, I try to run four or five nights a week for at least a half an hour usually more and a long run on the weekends. When I started I saw a noticable difference in my legs and a different kind of power. I had more endurance and better definition. My calves also got longer, which I'd been working on for a while in the weight room without much success. I agree with a few of the previous posts. Screw walking, give it all you've got.

[Pokoritel]

I never run either i would do boxing which helps alot in burning fat, or i would walk on the treadmill but i would change the pace every 2-3 minutes going back and forth.

[doomsdaylover]

Personally, I love running, I try to run four or five nights a week for at least a half an hour usually more and a long run on the weekends. When I started I saw a noticable difference in my legs and a different kind of power. I had more endurance and better definition. My calves also got longer, which I'd been working on for a while in the weight room without much success. I agree with a few of the previous posts. Screw walking, give it all you've got.

I'm with you there, man. Running really gets the heart pumpin'. My only deal is when you weight about 200 pounds, constant running puts a lot of stress on your knees and ankles. When I lived in a warmer climate, running never ever bothered me but now that I took a job in my homestate in Oregon, the cold makes my knees hate me. Now, I try and get to the gym in the evenings and do the eliptical/treadmill/bike, 15 minutes each for different levels of intensity.

[pdiesel]

higher heartrate has been associated with higher levels of fat loss compared to walking..running will burn off more fat quicker for you

[Torque757]

I walk on an 11 out 15 incline 3.5 mph for 35 min 3-4 times a week, I think that type of walking is def best, because the most of the calories burned will be fat, as opposed to running which will burn more calories from other sources which would be usefull for muscle fuel. Best if done before you eat, not only will you burn even a higher percentage of calories from fat but your appatite will increase somewhat throughout the day.

[dtb004]

Whats up.
Just thought I would hear everyone's take on cardio and staying in the optimal heart rate range for burning fat. When I stay in that fate burning range of 127-145, sometimes I feel im not doing shit. I know Im not burning my muscle all up due to the high heart rate,but damn sometimes I feel Im not doing shit. Anyone else's ideas?

[Toni69]

Whats up.
Just thought I would hear everyone's take on cardio and staying in the optimal heart rate range for burning fat. When I stay in that fate burning range of 127-145, sometimes I feel im not doing shit. I know Im not burning my muscle all up due to the high heart rate,but damn sometimes I feel Im not doing shit. Anyone else's ideas?

I always wondered this too. I use the bike right, either one, upright or recumbant. I usually choose random, level 7 or 8 for 30 mintues and my HR stays at 130-135. Now, whenyou do this for an hour 2x a day, it really takes it toll on you.

The most important thing to remember is that exercising at a higher intensity is better than exercising at a lower intensity when it comes to burning calories. There is a lower-intensity “fat burning zone” in which you utilize a greater percentage of calories from fat than at higher intensities. However, the total number of calories burned at that rate is less. For example, let’s say I bike at a low intensity and burn 100 calories. Seventy-five of those calories burned might come from fat. At first glance, that looks good. If I was to bike at a higher intensity for the same period of time, I might burn 200 total calories, with 125 of those coming from fat. The percentage of fat calories burned drops, but you burn more total calories and more total fat calories at a higher intensity.

The bottom line: for sustained weight loss, you have to burn more calories than you take in. Trying to focus on burning fat calories won’t help. Calories are calories –the goal is to burn as many as possible. Bodybuilders have to do this and maintain their muscle..well, that is the tricky part.

[hjayss]

When I take a week off from cario I feel like the muscle I work hard for stays there and my pump lasts like forever, but when I dod cardio it looks like I did not do anything crazy.

[BigTruck]

right on what with what toni says. if you are looking to burn calories from fat, you need to work in the lower end of your target heart rate (60-65%)

if you are going off those hear rate info the machines have to offer, it might not be as accurate as it could be. it doesn’t take much to find your low end target heart rate (le thr) for a rough calculation:

220 - (your age) = your maximum heart rate
mhr - (your resting heart rate...how many beats per minute while resting) = your hear rate reserve
hrr x 60% (% desired to work within) = training range %
tr% + resting heart rate = le thr
_______________________________

example:

220 - 30 = 190
190 - 60 = 130
130 x 60% = 78
78 + 60 = 138 le thr

______________________________

IMO, working in the le thr zone will burn more calories from fat than if your heart is working harder/faster/longer. if you do your cardio more frequent, at lower impact and at a medium duration, you will ultimately burn more fat calories than if you do cardio at a higher impact, longer duration, fewer times throughout the week. again, my opinon. i have a higher metabolism and have to work at keeping the weight on -- i have to keep as many good calories as i can.

oh -- don't forget to stretch.

[dtb004]

Thanks for the posts guys, keep em' coming. Also, I agree with what hjayss said. Sometimes I will do a good 30 min. and when i'm finished, I sometimes feel that I didn't even lift. I mostly feel this way on my arm days.....

[BigTruck]

i hear you on the pump lose. without the scientific verbiage, when you are working your arms, you get an increase of blood flow to that area -- hence the pump. if you run or ride the bike after that, your body pumps the blood to the areas doing all the work. i think you would feel the same effect if you did arms and then went and did legs.

[Torque757]

Thats all good advice, for me personally I like walking on a treadmill inclined( mine goes all the way to 15, I use 10) at 3-3.5 mph for 30 or 35 minutes.

[darkside64]

there was an article on animalpak about cardio. It is called cardio roundtable. I agree with the guy that did the "talk test". Meaning that if you can still talk with no problem during cardio you are doing fine. You dont want to push yourself to the point where you are out of breath. Take it easy, but not too easy. There is no law written in stone that a certain heart rate will burn the most fat. Just like with the weights you have to go with feel and results. Hope that helps

[brandona]

This Is A Great Question...i Tend To Push Myself Pretty Hard On Cardio, And From What You Guys Are Saying, I Am Pushing Way Too Hard...i Like The Elpicital And I Get My Heart Rate Up In To The 175 Range......so I Really Need To Calm My Ass Down Cause It Sounds Like I Am Doing More Bad Than Good...
-b

[mehancd]

i am getting on a cut diet and a freidn warned me to avoid too much cardio. ive heard this before, but he said that when he was cutting and did 30 min a day, it was too much., i know people are different and you have to find a balance for yourself, but any good places to start? id hate to cut and diet my ass off then realize i took it 3 steps too far

[jac71]

I'm in the same boat bro. This is my first time makin an effort as far cuttin, it really hasn't been a problem for me getting down to around 11% bf with just diet and liftin, but know I want to take it to the next level...I started doing 3-30mins of cardio a week after workouts and on a day that I don't lift I do 45 minutes....so far so good energy levels are up and I have also noticed a little more definition. I say probably start of slow see how you feel and if it's making a difference and adjust from there. Good luck bro!

[speedster00]

I was lifting and doing an hour of cardio a day. No carbs after 4pm. It works, but after a week I was very irritable and the wife didnt like it. So I had to adjust. Now I do cardio about 3 times a week for 40 minutes and just watch my carbs at night. Slower, but still effective and keeps my mood ok.

[xenrus]

theres no too much cardio , you just have to watch your pulse all the time .Again depends on your goals , i cardio 6 days a week coz i have to burn a lot of cals and everything is cool

[Jon]

I did the same with 1hour treadmill @ 60-70% max HR and 1 hour martial arts 6 days/week ,,,worked fine for me without losin muscle mass

[Dare_devil]

It's about cardio.I know that it shouod be atleast for 30mins but what i wanna ask is that is it a continous 30min period or if u feel tired u can start to walk for a min or 2.

[DreamZero]

Stopping during a cardio session will only make it harder to take back your cruise speed. Your heart will be like "thank god it's finally over.. oh shit here we go again". Try it, you'll see what i mean. If you can't stand 30 mins without a break, lower the intensity a bit.

[speedster00]

Changing your speeds works very well for fat loss. Its called HIIT.

[ironshaolin]

Yeah personally, I think 30 mins is a waste of time. Doing Cardio should be like lifting weights. You wouldn't do Bench presses with 95 lbs to failure for 8 sets, would you? I usually do something like this for treadmill work.
Incline:1 speed:4.5 for 1 min
5.0 for 1 min
5.5 for 1 min
Increase incline to 4 and speed to 6.0 for 1 min
back down to 5.5 and 1 incline for 1 min
speed 7.0 and incline 5 for 1 min
I keep doing that, increasing the speed and incline for 1 min, then returning to a flat surface and a slow jogfor a min. If I get really wiped out from a fast run, I'll walk for a min to catch my breath. I usually do this until I get the speed to 10 and incline to 8, then I do 2-3 mins of a walk to cool down. Total time is about 15-20 mins, and I think this is much more effective than long and slow.

[karmazon]

Changing your speeds works very well for fat loss. Its called HIIT.

Good job misleading him. HIIT is not running and walking when you feel tired, it's a different thing altogether.

[crazedwombat]

exactly on the mislead.

HIIT - high intensity interval training


basically run all out for a 1-1.5 min, whatever speed you can handle

then jog/walk for 2-3 min, repeat for 30-45 min.

As you build up your conditioning you can go faster with slower rest times

For example:

5 min warm up light jog
1 min 8mph - 8 min
3 min 3mph - 11 min
1 min 8mph - 12 min
3 min 3mph - 15 min
1 min 8mph - 16 min
3 min 3mph - 19 min
1.5 min 8mph - 21.5min
4 min 3mph - 25.5 min
1.5 min 8mph - 27 min
3 min cool down - 30min

just a sample.

HIIT for cardio as well as Hill training on tread and outside have been proven to be the best for conditioning as well as lower joint impact since you're not running for 1-2 hours and repetitively slamming your knees. Fat burn is only good for 30min or so then it doesnt really help anymore when going at a lower speed. Fat burn is better with weights and diet instead of cardio.

[speedster00]

Good job misleading him. HIIT is not running and walking when you feel tired, it's a different thing altogether.

I dont believe I mislead him at all. He never stated his goals or why he is doing cardio. Different types of cardio are done for different results. I simply made a blanket statement.

[Bombboy]

Here is a question, when you do cardio are you guys looking for time or cal. burned?

BB

[Toni69]

I would rather clock in and finish when the darn timer shuts off instead of waiting for another calorie to add on to the subtotal on the display. Sometimes, my cardio just does not get so intense, so if I was to have a set amount of calories in my head and I don't reach it in 30 min, I would surely feel like crap...or worse..if it took me longer than 30 min to reach a certain amount of calories!

I never watch calories anyway..I watch fats and carbs..1 g of fat = 9 calories
1g of carbohydrates = 4 calories

Besides, with too much cardio, you risk burning muscle..especially when on a cutting diet. Your diet has to be just right to maintain muscle. You still should lift for good pumps and do the right amount of cardio...and a variety of cardio is perfect...dont just stick to the same things every time, you will get where you need to be. If you want to walk on a treadmill at an incline..great, use the bike, stair climber..whatever floats your boat and gets you to stay motivated.

Focusing on calories will just drive you mad eventually. Oh, and if you feel tired in the middle of your cardio, like cant catch your breadth..well, decrease the level slightly to catch your breadth..dont just stop unless your having a heart attack...God forbid! If your concerned with just fat burning..I would stay in the 125-130 HR range. The other methods mentioned here are all very good as well...good job guys!

[Joe D'Amato]

is cardio mostly about the sweating or what???

[JMC]

No way bro...do a google search on the effects of cardiovascular workouts.

It's about getting that heart pumping = heart strength. Increasing blood flow while increasing red blood cells = more oxygen to muscle groups. Burning calories. Increase glycogen stores while decreasing glycogen... The benies are endless.

Sweating is just a physical effect of your body's HVAC. It's your body's way of maintaining an acceptable temperature.

[Jon]

Multiple threads on this...use SEARCH next time.. thx

[Toni69]

I didnt want to start a new thread, so I chose to add my question here...so I apologize to the thread creator for kinda starting a new thread within this one.

Anyone:

I am getting ready for a show in June, so I have the whole diet thing going on, lifting 5-6 days a week, intensive posing 1 day a week with a trainer in addition to doing it on my own for about 15-20 min a day after I train, cardio 6 days a week, with 3 days doing over an hour each day.

I eat every three hours, I am very routine in my meals...so I am pretty straight. The other day, it was a low day..I think my 3rd low day (75g carbs, 20-30g fats). I usually eat breakfast at 9am, take shock therapy and pump at 1045am, train by 1115-1130am..eat again at 12pm. I do cardio around 115pm, after I lift. Well, in the mid of my cardio...about 30 min in, I started getting really dizzy and really cold. I pushed through it regardless..drank loads of water too. I did feel faint, but I managed to finish my hour of cardio.

As soon as I am done with my workouts, I down storm and nitro. As soon as I did that..I felt like a new person...like I had a second wind.
This ever happen to anyone else here? Any idea why I felt like that?

[xville349]

this has happened to me too... it was a bit scary, especially since i was running outside in frigid temperatures.

my guess is that it's a blood sugar thing that results from cutting carbs. i always feel better almost immediately if i eat something or drink some juice as soon as it happens.

if you took either nitro g or nitro with juice, the quick rush of simple carbs could explain why you felt better.

good luck with it and be careful.

[stumblin54]

I didnt want to start a new thread, so I chose to add my question here...so I apologize to the thread creator for kinda starting a new thread within this one.

Anyone:

I am getting ready for a show in June, so I have the whole diet thing going on, lifting 5-6 days a week, intensive posing 1 day a week with a trainer in addition to doing it on my own for about 15-20 min a day after I train, cardio 6 days a week, with 3 days doing over an hour each day.

I eat every three hours, I am very routine in my meals...so I am pretty straight. The other day, it was a low day..I think my 3rd low day (75g carbs, 20-30g fats). I usually eat breakfast at 9am, take shock therapy and pump at 1045am, train by 1115-1130am..eat again at 12pm. I do cardio around 115pm, after I lift. Well, in the mid of my cardio...about 30 min in, I started getting really dizzy and really cold. I pushed through it regardless..drank loads of water too. I did feel faint, but I managed to finish my hour of cardio.

As soon as I am done with my workouts, I down storm and nitro. As soon as I did that..I felt like a new person...like I had a second wind.
This ever happen to anyone else here? Any idea why I felt like that?


Something similar like this happened to me once. It was leg day and I finished up, then decided to hit the elliptical for 40 minutes. I didn't quite make it through 30 minutes before blacking out and waking up face down on the floor haha, but I had your similar symptoms before this too. With nobody there to help me or laugh at me (perk to going so late that night), I simply got up, got a drink of water, took a few deep breaths, and squeezed out the remainder of what time I had left. I was a little worried at first, and told myself that if these symptoms became a trend or I ever passed out again I would go to the doc to see what he says, but it never did happen again. I drank a gatorade that night before I left the gym, and felt like a new person like you said. This incident happened at the beginning of a cut when I started carb cycling, and I truly think that the lack of carbs that I was used to taking in, and lack of energy that I had at the time (following wheels) did me in. If this happens again to you Toni, and I'm sure I'm just preaching to the choir, I'd say ask the doc and see what's up, but I just thought I'd share with you my story of how it was only a one time occurrence and I haven't looked back. I hope your case is similar to mine. Good luck with your cutting, I thoroughly enjoy reading your daily log. Peace.

Stumblin

[NickSP]

So if we're not trying to make a certain weight for some reason, and our only goal is to burn fat, an incline walk would be preferred most of the time (obviously switching it up every once in a while)?

[born0withno0soul]

I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about cardio before bedtime. would it be a problem? any suggestions on why or why not?

[T_N_Muscle]

It's about cardio.I know that it shouod be atleast for 30mins but what i wanna ask is that is it a continous 30min period or if u feel tired u can start to walk for a min or 2.

you should be at 70-75% of your MHR for 30 - 45 min

[born0withno0soul]

i was bringing back an old post about cardio so i could ask a question without maiking a new thread. what do you think about cardio before bedtime? i have a schedule where i can do it at other times its just sometimes i feel like running before i go to bed.

[Tron]

Cardio before bedtime probably isn't a good idea. You'll get all your adrenaline pumping, and then it's time for bed. Then again, it's your decision. I usually can't sleep with that much going down though.

[born0withno0soul]

i was not worried about not sleeping just the nutritional debate on cardio before bed. i was thinking of doing 20 minutes of jogging then downing three scoops of muscle milk and passing out.

[born0withno0soul]

sorry i just want to bump this thread a couple times until i get a few answers on this question of mine above before i make a new thread.

[asilab]

It's about cardio.I know that it shouod be atleast for 30mins but what i wanna ask is that is it a continous 30min period or if u feel tired u can start to walk for a min or 2.


When I do cardio if I start to feel a little winded I just take a cpl deep breaths & get my breathing back under control & continue at the pace I was going.

My cardio on treadmill usually looks like this:
Warm up: 5 min. 4-6% inc. at 4mph
Run: 15 min. 2% inc. 5.3mph
Jog: 3 min. 2% inc. 4.6 mph
Walk: 10 min. 4% inc. 4.0mph
Run: 7 min. 2% inc. 5.3mph

[Toni69]

When I do cardio if I start to feel a little winded I just take a cpl deep breaths & get my breathing back under control & continue at the pace I was going.

My cardio on treadmill usually looks like this:
Warm up: 5 min. 4-6% inc. at 4mph
Run: 15 min. 2% inc. 5.3mph
Jog: 3 min. 2% inc. 4.6 mph
Walk: 10 min. 4% inc. 4.0mph
Run: 7 min. 2% inc. 5.3mph

I see many people do this type of intensity-variation cardio...it is effective and gets very intense. Do you find it affects your HR and performance at all? Meaning, you cool down, then have to build up again...does this benefit you?
I never done this type of cardio training. I always stay at a certain level and maintain it..I increase my intensity if I feel the cardio is getting too easy, but I will not go over 140 for my HR. If I do, I take it down a level or two and maintain from there for the duration of my cardio. I also dont want to burn muscle...you have different goals than I do..this has to be taken into consideration as well.

[Joe D'Amato]

After my workout i went out side for sprints and came back in feeling dizzy and shit but then i drank down a protein shake and had a shit load of chicken, so is that intensity to much and will it "burn my mouses" as you guys were saying?

[squattingtillipuke]

Anybody ever get shin splints (or a feeling similar) when they run on a treadmill? I have tried stretching before but I can't seem to get rid of that feeling. I ride the stationary bike and do the elliptical machine but I always feel that I get a better warmup on the treadmill.

Any ideas I would appreciate it.

Peace

[karmazon]

Anybody ever get shin splints (or a feeling similar) when they run on a treadmill? I have tried stretching before but I can't seem to get rid of that feeling. I ride the stationary bike and do the elliptical machine but I always feel that I get a better warmup on the treadmill.

Any ideas I would appreciate it.

Peace

I get that sometimes when I run. It's a terrible pain, but I just keep going.

[Axe]

IMHO, cardio is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY! What's the point of beefing up your body if your heart and lungs are weak?!?

So....how does it fit in on a bulk?

What do you do on a 5 day split?

I'm thinking to toss it in on the 2 days that you're not in the gym. But seriously, I don't know.

Help a brother out here.....

[The Razorback]

You gotta try different things to see what works for you. Some people can get away with out ever doin cardio and others have to do 2 hours aday to get cut. You just gotta experiment and see what works for you. As far as doin cardio while bulking I don't think its a bad idea only becuase I don't want to be draging ass on leg or back day but cardio can keep you from gaining to so you just gotta go by trial and error.

[naturalguy]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


Seriously, as with many things related to bodybuilding, it's highly individual. Some people have to do cardio year round, some lucky people don't ever have to do cardio. You have to find what works best for you.

[Brute Force]

IMHO, cardio is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY! What's the point of beefing up your body if your heart and lungs are weak?!?

So....how does it fit in on a bulk?

What do you do on a 5 day split?

I'm thinking to toss it in on the 2 days that you're not in the gym. But seriously, I don't know.

Help a brother out here.....

Here are some general rules

When on a bulk, perform cardio after lifting.

When dieting, perform cardio first thing in the morning.

On lifting days, perform steady state cardio with a max HR of 130. If you keep the HR under 130, you'll burn mostly fat. If HR is over 130, you'll burn more calories, but will use lose more muscle as well.

On non-lifting days, you can perform high intensity interval cardio, such as sprints.

[stumblin54]

Bro I'm one of those people who do cardio year round, not to keep muscle separation in the offseason or anything like that but to keep my heart healthy. I think it's really stupid not to do any at all unless you're a pro and gaining the most amount of mass possible is a must, so just do at least three 30 minute sessions per week. It's not going to hurt you in any way, and in the long run you'll be much healthier and not regret not doing it. Get on that bike or treadmill. Peace.

Stumblin

[Pokoritel]

What bruteforce said makes sence.

[DRIVEN]

well i have heard alot of things man....im 6'2 180 sopping wet 100% ectomorph! i used to do cardio a few times a week but i dont do any now that i heard for us ectomorphs we shouldnt do it when trying to bulk.........what do you all think?

[T_N_Muscle]

well i have heard alot of things man....im 6'2 180 sopping wet 100% ectomorph! i used to do cardio a few times a week but i dont do any now that i heard for us ectomorphs we shouldnt do it when trying to bulk.........what do you all think?

driven is right! It TOTALLY depends on your body type, hell i know guys who can lean out for a pro show in 6 weeks.

If you are a hard gainer i dont think theres a need for cardio unless you are preppin for a show. Fom me, I am 100% meso, so i do cardio every time i train. On weekends I do 45 min first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, but....... I have the type of body that can PASS BY A RACK AND PUT ON MUSCLE, lol

Hope this helps

[karmazon]

I usually do cardio after breakfast, my heart rate is way above the "fat burning zone"(which is a bullshit thing anyway) and I do it around 5 times a week because I like running and it's good for the heart(heart is a muscle too).

No, I don't lose any muscle, because I don't under-eat.

[ironshaolin]

Here are some general rules

When on a bulk, perform cardio after lifting.

When dieting, perform cardio first thing in the morning.

On lifting days, perform steady state cardio with a max HR of 130. If you keep the HR under 130, you'll burn mostly fat. If HR is over 130, you'll burn more calories, but will use lose more muscle as well.

On non-lifting days, you can perform high intensity interval cardio, such as sprints.

Ok, I agree with the first part of what you said here. Cardio after lifting is gonna ensure you have adequate energy to lift, which is where you need it on a bulk. Cardio first thing in the morning will help you burn fat. However, in my opinion, long slow cardio is much more likely to burn muscle then short, intense bursts. Jogging, and ellipticals are an aerobic excersise, while both lifting and sprinting are considered anaerobic. Getting your heart rate above 130 I don't feel will sacrifice muscle, infact I believe it can help it. Look at the physiques of 2 different runners: a marathon and a sprinter. The marathon runner is slim, long muscles, and even wrinkly. When you do cardio for 30 mins or more, pushing into an hour, you're constantly overheating your body, which in turn will literally heat up your organs, and release loads of free-radicals into your body. Also, the extended time makes it more likely to start becoming catabolic. As for sprinters, look at the physique. Toned, more muscular. The short, bursts of energy force your muscles to work hard, making them become stronger. When done AFTER lifting, or first thing in the morning your glycogen is low, so you will dip into fat stores for energy. Also considering you're only at it for 10-15 mins, theres less time for your body to go into a catabolic state. And this is the only true way to build lung power. Start running hard sprints 3 times a week and tell me you can't keep your breath better on some deads or squats. Nobody wants to have to quit halfway through squats because their lungs give out, so train them the same way you'd train muscles through short, intense bursts. Just my opinion, feel free to debate.

[Jaymafin]

I have the type of body that can PASS BY A RACK AND PUT ON MUSCLE, lol

Hope this helps

Where did you get one of those? can you hook a brother up. seriously though i would say a half hour of slow cardio three days a week after training to maintain. plus or minus those days as you see fit.

[T_N_Muscle]

worst thing is i didnt find out i had that type of physique TILL I WAS 45 YEARS OLD!! :((

[Jaymafin]

OMG. as a rule of thumb i never dwell on the past but do you ever wonder what could have been if you found out sooner? better late than never though.

[NEW B]

As it gets warmer I was thinking about riding a bike on the roads to switch things up a bit but not do away with running. My question is how much more biking do you need to do to equal the same amount as running? Would you have to bike 4 miles to get the same workout as running 2? Thanks for the input.

[stumblin54]

What kind of intensity are you biking at? And on what kind of terrain? I would say I burn as much calories if not more biking because I ride in the mountains on a pretty steep incline, so there are some factors that come into play here.

Stumblin

[NEW B]

in the part of ohio im at it is a rolling terrain as for as intensity goes i have never biked but i got a trek road bike from a friend thats why i was asking to see if is worth my time.

[MELTDOWN]

i prefer biking, and most all of it is on the road. i can't run due to several motorcycle roadracing gravity test sessions and my knees not getting fixed properly. i usually cruise for a bit, hammer down as hard as i can, cruise, hammer, etc. i am on the road for an hour or so and return home tired and drenched.

[speedster00]

i prefer biking, and most all of it is on the road. i can't run due to several motorcycle roadracing gravity test sessions and my knees not getting fixed properly. i usually cruise for a bit, hammer down as hard as i can, cruise, hammer, etc. i am on the road for an hour or so and return home tired and drenched.

I've had a couple of get offs at the track myself roadracing....luckily nothing but a couple small broken bones. Biking can be more rewarding than running I think. Mainly because you spend more time doing it from not getting bored

[Psikodelikz]

I am a competitive biker (not a roadie, but hey) and the first thing I'll tell you is get a new seat, your ass is gonna thank you. Next, since I have had two knee surgeries so far (and a third not too far behind) from running what would equate to a marathon a week I can say that biking may not get the job done as quick, but its gonna be better on your whole body in the long run. If you want some more information on some good cardio splits for the bike, I got them, if not, oh well. THe interval stuff (as unobtanium stated - cruise, hammer, cruise etc.) is a great way to do things, they're called 20-40's, for a base. 20 s cruise, 40 s hammer...it should turn into 20 min and 40 min, but were not going for racing, were going for cardio burns. I know it sounds cheesy to, but get a cheap HRM (heart rate monitor) and ride in the proper HR area - above or below does nothing or it is detrimental. Same with all cardio, if were gonna be powerlifitng, you don't want to train your cardio outside of your red zone, your going to start burning muscle and the like...ok, im done, you want more info, let me know.

[asilab]

I see many people do this type of intensity-variation cardio...it is effective and gets very intense. Do you find it affects your HR and performance at all? Meaning, you cool down, then have to build up again...does this benefit you?
I never done this type of cardio training. I always stay at a certain level and maintain it..I increase my intensity if I feel the cardio is getting too easy, but I will not go over 140 for my HR. If I do, I take it down a level or two and maintain from there for the duration of my cardio. I also dont want to burn muscle...you have different goals than I do..this has to be taken into consideration as well.


I was hoping you'd reply to this one since you've helped me so much with my training & your input is important, thank you. At first before I understood the whole meaning of controlled breathing it was really draining me but now that I've been doing it for a few weeks here & there I feel I have benefited from it. I don't let my HR get to high, I try to keep it below 130ish, I think I've talked to you before about the HR thing when I train what was a good mark to be above & below. I only do this type of cardio 3 times a week, I like to challenge myself & see what I can do so I do like to change it up a bit.

[Toni69]

As far as shin splints go...that is something that either you can get past or you can't. I walk on the treadmill at a 4.0 incline and 4.0 speed and my little legs are moving. When I first started, my shins would burn so bad, but I kept pushing through. Now, my shins dont hurt at all and its a bit easier to walk at that level. This is when you start increasing your intensity, but still maintain a maximum target HR for maximum benefits.

Now, I also knew a person who had shin splints so bad they had to be in crutches. I suggest before you run or do the treadmill, get on the bike for 10 min and get your core temp up a bit..meaning, get your HR going and start getting your blood pumping. Do some stretches for shins, then get on the treadmill and walk for a bit on an incline, work the legs into running.

If running is still a prob, maybe think about your running shoes. I am flat footed and wear motion control running shoes. This type of shoe gives me the extra heel support and cushioning for my feet which is just perfect for running.

Asilab, I am glad your training is going well. When that cardio gets to be a bit easy for ya, just up your intensity or increase your time a bit. Make it challenging but still attainable.

[asilab]

As far as shin splints go...that is something that either you can get past or you can't. I walk on the treadmill at a 4.0 incline and 4.0 speed and my little legs are moving. When I first started, my shins would burn so bad, but I kept pushing through. Now, my shins dont hurt at all and its a bit easier to walk at that level. This is when you start increasing your intensity, but still maintain a maximum target HR for maximum benefits.

Now, I also knew a person who had shin splints so bad they had to be in crutches. I suggest before you run or do the treadmill, get on the bike for 10 min and get your core temp up a bit..meaning, get your HR going and start getting your blood pumping. Do some stretches for shins, then get on the treadmill and walk for a bit on an incline, work the legs into running.

If running is still a prob, maybe think about your running shoes. I am flat footed and wear motion control running shoes. This type of shoe gives me the extra heel support and cushioning for my feet which is just perfect for running.

Asilab, I am glad your training is going well. When that cardio gets to be a bit easy for ya, just up your intensity or increase your time a bit. Make it challenging but still attainable.


Thanks Toni, I appreciate your feedback & all your help.

[ncsu06]

personal fan of running here, but i will admit biking is more exciting the speed and the rush is awesome. Its easy to cheat as well on a bike to by not pedaling..just make sure you continue to pedal at all times for maximum results....coasting down a hill w/o pedalling isn't going to help...be intense bro and it doesn't matter how you do cardio.

[feelthepain12]

Obviously you burn more calories running, but switching to biking every now and then should be fine. You'll be cutting your joints some slack. I'd stick mainly with running, but as it gets warmer switch it up and bike every now and then. Keep your body guessing.

[Psikodelikz]

I understand where everyone is coming from on the running thing. I loved it, became obsessed with it, and lost everything to it (85 lbs. along with the ability to really run again, so I gained a lot of weight back). Biking has been a godsend on the joints and back. But if you would like to know, riding your ass up a hill on a bike will kick your ass quicker than running. Average day in the Tour de France, riders consume and burn 10,000 calories per day, on the hill climb days, its much more (it varies between authorities - some say 12 000, some say 15 000). Marathon runners don't burn that much, but again, different sports, different workouts. I just think that if you bike the way a lot of us push weight, it can be better than running all around. I won't say one is better than the other though - some of us like running more than biking, some hate biking, etc. etc. etc. Do what feels good and what makes the best workout.

[Arbalest]

If you want a good bike workout... Get a SINGLE SPEED!!! WHOOO!!! i love it.. I converted mine a couple years ago. Bike up some hills with your ass on the seat, and you'll burn some calories. lol

[dragondad]

I have to agree with stumblin. It is going to depend on your terrain. If your running the same terrain your biking, running beats biking hands down for burning more calories. I prefer biking. Less impact on my knees.

[bleed_alone]

After reading this I see a lot of people talking about heart rate levels.. According to what all those 'fat burn' levels say on the treads at my gym, My HR should only be around 130 (fat loss) and 170 (cardio)... If I do even the lightest jog, enough to break a sweat, my HR is over 170. So what that means is that if I'm just walking... then that's enough for a cut? Doesn't seem right.

[Phenom]

higher heartrate has been associated with higher levels of fat loss compared to walking..running will burn off more fat quicker for you

but won't you lose muscle too? while running?

[stumblin54]

Just like in the weight room, if you are not putting everything you got into it, you might as well pack up and go home.

Set your intensity level to "ALL YOU GOT", then you never have to worry about not doing enough.

"All you got" for 45 minutes a day? Good luck with that one bro. I go by my breathing rate. If I can't talk when I'm doing cardio, then I'm going too hard. Those HR monitors on the machines are off anyways, don't go by those. Peace.

Stumblin

[Psikodelikz]

single speeds are great. Great workout too. Push it up some hills and watch that fat ass crumble. If you want a great workout, get a single speed mountain bike, take it off road to a cross-country trail, it will be more brutal than the road.

[TheNaturalG]

Cardio Timing: The Secret to Burning Fat Up To 300% Faster

When is the best time of day to do your aerobic exercise? The answer is any time! The most important thing is that you just do it. Continuous cardiovascular exercise, such as walking, jogging, stairclimbing, or cycling, sustained for at least 30 minutes, will burn body fat no matter when you do it. However, if you want to get the maximum benefits possible from every minute you invest in your workouts, then you should consider getting up early and doing cardio before you eat your first meal - even if you're not a "morning person." Early morning aerobic exercise on an empty stomach has three major advantages over exercising later in the day:
Early in the morning before you eat, your levels of muscle and liver glycogen (stored carbohydrate) are low. If you eat dinner at 7 p.m and you eat breakfast at 7 a.m., that's 12 hours without food. During this 12-hour overnight fast, your levels of glycogen slowly decline to provide glucose for various bodily functions that go on even while you sleep. As a result, you wake up in the morning with depleted glycogen and lower blood sugar - the optimum environment for burning fat instead of carbohydrate. How much more fat you'll burn is uncertain, but some studies have suggested that up to 300% more fat is burned when cardio is done in a fasted, glycogen-depleted state.
So how exactly does this work? It's quite simple, really. Carbohydrate (glycogen) is your body's primary and preferred energy source. When your primary fuel source is in short supply, this forces your body to tap into its secondary or reserve energy source; body fat. If you do cardio immediately after eating a meal, you'll still burn fat, but you'll burn less of it because you'll be burning off the carbohydrates you ate first. You always burn a combination of fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but depending on when you exercise, you can burn a greater proportion of fat relative to carbohydrate. If doing cardio first thing in the morning is not an option for you, then the second best time to do it would be immediately after weight training. Lifting weights is anaerobic (carbohydrate-burning) by nature, and therefore depletes muscle glycogen. That's why a post lifting cardio session has a similar effect as morning cardio on an empty stomach.
The second benefit you'll get from early morning cardio sessions is what I call the "afterburn" effect. When you do a cardio session in the morning, you not only burn fat during the session, but you also continue to burn fat at an accelerated rate after the workout. Why? Because an intense session of cardiovascular exercise can keep your metabolism elevated for hours after the session is over. If you do cardio at night, you will still burn fat during the session, so you definitely benefit from it. However, nighttime cardio fails to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolism drops like a ton of bricks as soon as you go to sleep. While you sleep, your metabolic rate is slower than any other time of the day.
Burning more fat isn't the only reason you should do your cardio early. The third benefit of morning workouts is the "rush" and feeling of accomplishment that stays with you all day long after an invigorating workout. Exercise can become a pleasant and enjoyable experience, but the more difficult or challenging it is for you, the more important it is to get it out of the way early. When you put off any task you consider unpleasant, it hangs over you all day long, leaving you with a feeling of guilt, stress and incompleteness (not to mention that you are more likely to "blow off" an evening workout if you are tired from a long day at work or if your pals try to persuade you to join them at the pub for happy hour.)
You might find it hard to wake up early in the morning and get motivated to workout. But think back for a moment to a time in your life when you tackled a difficult task and you finished it. Didn't you feel great afterwards? Completing any task, especially a physically challenging one, gives you a "buzz." When the task is exercise, the buzz is physiological and psychological. Physiologically, exercise releases endorphins in your body. Endorphins are opiate-like hormones hundreds of times more powerful than the strongest morphine. Endorphins create a natural "high" that makes you feel positively euphoric! Endorphins reduce stress, improve your mood, increase circulation and relieve pain. The "high" is partly psychological too. Getting up early and successfully achieving a small goal kick starts your day and gives you feelings of completion, satisfaction and accomplishment. For the rest of the day you feel happy and you feel less stress knowing that the most difficult part of the day is behind you.
So, you say you're not a morning person? Take heart; neither am I. I can sleep in like you wouldn't believe! But I get up anyway because I know the effort is worth the results. When I have a bodybuilding goal that I am clearly focused on, such as reaching 4% or 5% body fat for a competition, I'm on my Stairmaster for 45 minutes every morning at the crack of dawn without fail. Sure it's a challenge at first, but you know what? After a few short weeks, It's no longer a chore and I'm "in the groove" - and you will be too. Just try it. Make a commitment to yourself to do it for just 21 days. Once those 21 days have gone by, you'll already be leaner and you'll be on your way to making morning workouts a habit that's as natural as brushing your teeth or taking a shower. Once you start getting used to feeling that buzz, you'll become "positively addicted" to it. The more you do it, the more you'll want to do it. Before you know it, early morning cardio will your new habit; you'll be leaner, your metabolism will be faster and you'll feel fantastic all day long!

[TheNaturalG]

Slow Cardio: Great Technique Or Bad Advice?

By: Bob Cicherillo
There have been many questions asked online and PM to me lately as the competition season has crept upon us, and is in full bloom. One of the more frequently asked questions is what kind of cardio is the best for getting ripped? There are obviously many forms of cardio to choose from, but most of them fall into two distinct categories: Slow paced and fast paced.

I've been hearing about how the HIIT program is the newest rage for contest prep. HIIT isn't revolutionary or even new for that matter. It's not much different than plain old, simple Step Aerobics.

We must first distinguish whether or not your goal is to simply lose some fat, or getting ready for competition. If your goal is to drop a few lbs. or tighten up, then HIIT is a great way to do it. Simple premise, you burn "X" amount of calories over and above what you consume, it will eventually lead to weight loss.

However... if your goal is to be a competitive bodybuilder, contest ready, and not look like a ZIPPER when you stick your tongue out...then HIIT is DEFINITELY not for you. The difference is keeping muscle mass.

The only two goals for a competing BB are:

1. To keep muscle mass as high as possible
2. To get fat % as low as possible


Calories Are Calories, Right?

It's important to know WHERE the calories are coming from. Virtually everything has caloric value, so it matters a great deal from where they are being burned. The higher/harder the aerobic activity... the more energy is being used from the FIRST available source of energy... CARBS. It's for this very reason that I've seen countless overweight aerobic instructors be able to run circles around you (cardio-VASCULAR wise), BUT, can't figure out why they cant lose 20 lbs. even though they're teaching 3-4 classes a day!

If the calories your burning are from primarily CARBS, it will be at the expense of hard earned muscle you trained all year to beat your competitors with, leaving you with a much smaller version of what you were expecting to see on stage. Simple mathematics... if you BURN 100 calories from carbohydrates, and then CONSUME 100 calories from carbohydrates... where are you? BACK WHERE YOU STARTED!


First, Second, Third Energy Sources


Just how does SLOW cardio actually bypass the carbs and get to the SECOND source of energy (FAT)? EASY, in laymen terms... after a few minutes of doing consistent but slow paced cardio, the body will automatically switch over to the fat stores for energy, sparing the carbs. WHY? Because your not working at a high enough level that the body needs to use it's #1 source of energy (carbs), but it has to give you something to utilize for fuel... that "something" is FAT!

This can only be achieved by getting to the fat burning stage... It's generally after about 10-15 minutes of cardio. (Depending on a million factors!) Some will get there a few minutes faster, some a little slower. This is why we do anywhere from 30 min to 1 hour of cardio. Variables being your conditioning, how close you are to the show, set point metabolism, etc...

Just how slow to go? I personally use the treadmill at about a 3.0 MPH pace, and the stationary bike at about 65 RPM. Remember the faster you go, the harder you work, the more CARBS will be used for fuel.

Lets assume that your in the 45 minute to 1 hour category and you still have a lot of body fat to lose. Can you exceed the 1 hour mark to burn even MORE fat? The answer is NO. Why? It seems like everything else pertaining to your bodies ability to conserve and store? that what actually happens in the post hour point, is that your body once again becomes aware that your going to extremes and attempts to conserve... this time the FAT.

Once your body has gotten to this point it goes to it's only source of energy left. PROTEIN! When this happens your basically burning MUSCLE for fuel. Ever notice how many long distance runners although being skinny, seem to be soft? Fat is a great source of SLOW long burning fuel for the body (why do you think animals store FAT for their winter hibernation?)

You Have To Have Faith!

One reason that many guys (and girls) are afraid to try this method is that they're afraid it won't work, or because it doesn't "feel" like they're doing anything. People are so used to sweating, and getting the "target" heart rate, that if those two things aren't happening... they can't accept that in their mind, and often revert to the old "calorie burning" techniques which will leave them smaller, softer, thinner and wondering where all the muscle they put on in the off season went to!

Knowledge is power and the key to your success. The biggest factor in all phases of contest preparations is giving your self enough time to prepare properly. Use this tried and true oldie but goodie.

[TheNaturalG]

STOP DOING CARDIO BEFORE YOU WEIGHT TRAIN!
by Larry Pepe

It kills me every time I see it. One person after another shows up at the gym, raring to go. They check in at the front desk, put their gear away and make a beeline for the cardio equipment. Somewhere between 20 and 60 minutes later they drag themselves off that treadmill and on to the gym floor to start the weight training portion of their session. This may be the most common training mistake I have seen in roughly 15 years of training in gyms from New York to California. There are a number of reasons why this training sequence can not only minimize your results but also holds the potential for injury.

Let's make a few things clear before we get started. If you want to warm up by doing 5 minutes of cardio before you hit the weights, power to you. If it makes you feel better prepared to train hard and get the most out of your weight training, great. In colder climates, especially with the fall and winter seasons upon us, this may even be advisable. But remember, we're talking about a cardio warm-up before training, not a cardio session aimed at burning fat. That will come after you train, not before, if you are sequencing the workout properly.

NUTRITIONAL REASONS
Ever heard that you will burn more fat if you do cardio on an empty stomach? Wrong. You will burn more fat if you are depleted of carbohydrates when you do cardio. Protein and dietary fats don't affect the equation. If you wanted to, and it didn't bother your stomach, you could drink a high protein/very low carb protein drink or eat a chicken breast or a piece of lean red meat minutes before you started cardio and you'd still burn the same amount of fat. But, if you have a piece of fruit or a cup of rice before that same session, you won't.

When you eat carbohydrates, the body stores them in the form of glycogen in your liver. Then, as you need to use them for energy, the glycogen stores are used until they are depleted. The problem is that the body will not burn fat until the glycogen stores are depleted. In other words, until you burn all your stored carbs, the body will not turn to your fat stores for energy and no fat will be burned. Now for the really bad news. Studies have indicated that it can take as much as 29 minutes of cardiovascular activity to deplete your glycogen stores. So, when you did that 30 minute cardio session after eating carbs sometime within several hours of beginning the session, you burned fat for a whopping minute--ONE MINUTE.

Does that mean that the session was a total waste of time. No. There are two benefits to cardiovascular work. In addition to burning fat, you elevate your metabolism every time you do cardio, which enhances your body's ability to metabolize food and burn fat for several hours after the session. You'll get that benefit regardless of whether your glycogen stores are full or depleted. But, if you are going to spend the time doing cardio in the first place, why settle for only half the benefit? You're going to work just as hard and spend just as much time either way.

While glycogen (carbs) will deprive you of the full benefit of your cardio, it has the opposite effect on working with the weights. Remember that the benefits to weight training are building/maintaining lean muscle tissue and elevated metabolism. This is anaerobic activity, not aerobic activity like cardio. Therefore, you don't weight train to burn bodyfat. Rather, you do it to build muscle.

When you weight train (anaerobic activity), the body's preferred energy source that enables you to train hard and be and stay strong for the workout is--you guessed it--carbohydrate. So, if you train before you do cardio, the glycogen necessary for productive workouts is both available and used. As you train the glycogen is used for energy and depleted. Ah! Depleted glycogen. Exactly where you want to be when you start cardio (aerobic activity) so that you can BURN FAT!

PRACTICAL REASONS
In addition to the nutritional reasons we've covered, there are other practical considerations that dictate doing your weight training before your cardio. Have you heard about or witnessed many people injuring themselves walking on a treadmill or stairmaster or riding a bike? Me neither. In the grand scheme of things, cardio may be tedious at times, but the risk of injury is pretty slim. Now, how many times have you seen or heard someone talk about pulling this or that or experiencing some discomfort because of something they did while weight training? Hopefully not too often, but a helluva lot more than with cardio. So, you'd have to agree that between the two, there is a greater risk of injury with weight training than there is with cardio. Given that fact, doesn't it make the most sense to weight train when you are in your freshest, strongest condition, both physically and mentally? Obviously, you are going to be in that peak condition when you get to the gym, not after you've done cardio for a half-hour or more at a high enough heart rate to burn fat.

The bottom line: Weight train first, when you have everything in your favor. You'll be mentally and physically fresher and stronger. You'll be in the ideal physiological environment as a result of your nutrition and appropriate use of your glycogen stores for the activities your're engaging in and the respective benefits they offer. Barbells don't just come before bikes in the dictionary. For the MAXIMUM RESULT, they should be sequenced that way in the gym too.

[TheNaturalG]

The first article has to do with Morning Cardio.
The second one has to do with why Slow cardio may be better.
And the 3rd is why if you are gonna do cardio with workouts do it after.

I don't wanna say those articles are be all end all things for cardio because they are not, but reading all of them may help you alot.

[karmazon]

Doesnt running burn in to the muscle we work so hard to build? Discuss.

Yes it does, I run 5 times a week and lose an inch of my biceps every time.

[NickSP]

So who agrees with some of the stuff in those articles for the most part? I finally have something other than steel toe boots to wear to the gym so I started to actually do cardio yesterday haha and I was walking on an incline.....

[ChrisG]

So who agrees with some of the stuff in those articles for the most part? I finally have something other than steel toe boots to wear to the gym so I started to actually do cardio yesterday haha and I was walking on an incline.....

I'm with ya on that man all I got is a pair of lace up steel toe boots that I really don't wanna run in for more then 15 seconds lol

[Frankie86]

ya wanna know what really kills your calves when u run..try running backwards on an incline..it keeps you on your toes and is relentless on your calves..

0o0o and about doin cardio before you train, what if you do cardio in the morning..like around 9..and then come back to the gym at like 330 and workout?..will th cardio still effect your workout?

[Musclecop]

My shift is all biking up hills, steps you name. I am on the bike unit in my dept. never in a car. I still do 1 hr cardio in the am precontest. I keep my gears hard to get a great workout.

[MELTDOWN]

I've had a couple of get offs at the track myself roadracing....luckily nothing but a couple small broken bones. Biking can be more rewarding than running I think. Mainly because you spend more time doing it from not getting bored

i almost left this place back in 1999...but got to stay a little while longer. highsides do more damage that lowsides, and you can figure out how i know....biking is for us old beat up folk, you whipper snappers can have the running... :)

[The_Beast]

Try Fucking running after a Heavy Calf day, which to me, is 4 days a week, thats pain.

But Back To reality, Cardio, is Necessary for heart and overall Health, 30minutes, 3 days a week, medium to low intensity Cardio (bike, jog, etc.) will not only Burn some Fat off, but keep some mass and maybe add a few years on your Frame also.-

The_Beast

[billmd1334]

I walk on an 11 out 15 incline 3.5 mph for 35 min 3-4 times a week, I think that type of walking is def best, because the most of the calories burned will be fat, as opposed to running which will burn more calories from other sources which would be usefull for muscle fuel. Best if done before you eat, not only will you burn even a higher percentage of calories from fat but your appatite will increase somewhat throughout the day.

Funny... that's exactly what I do PWO 4 times a week... and an extra 2 times a week now since I'm cutting

[Gunshow]

Farmers walks with light weights its IMO the best fat burning cardio. Use 10 or less weights and walk for half an hour to an hour on an incline. You will burn a ton of calories, mostly from fat as your heart rate should be i the fat burning percent which is 60% of 220-your age.

[TimW123]

Do any of you swim on a regular basis, and if so have you seen results in toning and fat loss. Also, does it affect your mass a lot?

[JUGGERNAUT]

Nothing wrong with it, just make sure your treating it as cardio that's a hair more anabolic but keep the cals high and training with the free weights a priorty. It's great for your heart, fat loss, endurance and fast twich muscle fibers.

[born0withno0soul]

got a question, so i put it in this thread. i have noticed many believe you will lose more fat if you do cardio upon waking and before breakfast. do you wake up and do cardio on a complete empty stomach or do you take a seriving of whey first?

[NumeroUno]

got a question, so i put it in this thread. i have noticed many believe you will lose more fat if you do cardio upon waking and before breakfast. do you wake up and do cardio on a complete empty stomach or do you take a seriving of whey first?

From experience and theory, I've found you'll lose more fat if you do it on an empty stomach.

The whole point is once you burn through your carbs you dig into your fat cells for energy (burn fat) So instead of running for a long time to dig into your fat, you just start on an empty stomach with no carbs in your system - going directly into your fat storage.

I know I lose muscle when I do it but I'll do it on an empty stomach at 8pm.(only on a cut of course, I never have an empty stomach during bulking)

On an emtpy stomach, I usually do cardio until I'm dead tired(30-45 minutes) on high intensity or i've found interval training works well.

-You must do cardio for at least 20 minutes to get the metabolic stimulation


Try doing cardio on an empty stomach (high intensity works best for me) for a week or two and see how it suits you.


-Daniel

[Toni69]

I have done this before a show, but it was a drastic measure for me to get my legs hard, so I started risking losing muscle just to get my legs harder.

I also believe the one who knows your body best is you. If this method works for ya, than stick with it. Your prime time is when you feel most energetic, creative and outgoing. If you're up at the crack of dawn and ready to get going , then morning training is the best option for you. However, keep in mind the advice here and you need food for energy to drive you through the workout, so a small amount of food in your stomach is best.

The majority of fat that is burned occurs in the two hours after your workout as your core body temperature returns to normal. So after a workout, while you're on the couch watching ESPN, you're still burning fat. Eat a light snack about 30 minutes prior to your cardio.

[AU_Lifter]

Somethings work well for some people and may not for another. I found that doing the treadmill, eliptical, or bike for about 45 minutes a couple days a week at 60-70% of my HRM works best for me. I thought about incorporating swimming into my cardio. I swam for four years in highschool and thought about bringing it back into my arsenal. Any thoughts or ideas on the swimming?

[dirtbag]

i have read a ton of articles and talked to some guys in the gym and they all tell me not to eat any carbs before working out so i burn fat. im trying to do this but its hard to keep up a high intensity when you are really hungary. Is anyone esle doing this and having success in lowering body fat?

[sacrifice]

i do it because i work out at 4:30 am and after i have my breakfast but i really dont feel a diffrence so it whatever but you should keep us posted to see what happens to your body fat because people have told me you could be buring muscle but if it works for us dont break it...

[karmazon]

If you're serious about gaining mass you should NEVER even have an empty stomach....

[Torque757]

i have read a ton of articles and talked to some guys in the gym and they all tell me not to eat any carbs before working out so i burn fat. im trying to do this but its hard to keep up a high intensity when you are really hungary. Is anyone esle doing this and having success in lowering body fat?

That whole idea is retarded. For these reasons:

1. LIFTING and losing bf should NEVER be put together, you do cardio and alter diet to lose bf.

2. I go about an hour after a regular, huge ass meal before lifting. i wouldnt go much longer, and you definantly dont want to lift hungry.

3. I beleive the no eating before thing only applies to cardio, the best time for cardio is first thing in morning before you eat.

If your goal is to drop bf %:

1. cardio in the morning before eatin

2. Limit carbs to first thing in the morning, before and after trainig(if you can get in enough with those meals, try to get MOST your carbs in those meals)

3. Dont eat fats and carbs in the same meal, protein/carb Protein/fat only

3. Drink green tea

[stumblin54]

I eat complex carbs in my protein shake preworkout in the p.m. In the morning I do cardio on an empty stomach (6am), but I take some aminos with Cuts prior to prevent any major muscle breakdown. Peace.

Stumblin

[hjayss]

That whole idea is retarded. For these reasons:

1. LIFTING and losing bf should NEVER be put together, you do cardio and alter diet to lose bf.

2. I go about an hour after a regular, huge ass meal before lifting. i wouldnt go much longer, and you definantly dont want to lift hungry.

3. I beleive the no eating before thing only applies to cardio, the best time for cardio is first thing in morning before you eat.

If your goal is to drop bf %:

1. cardio in the morning before eatin

2. Limit carbs to first thing in the morning, before and after trainig(if you can get in enough with those meals, try to get MOST your carbs in those meals)

3. Dont eat fats and carbs in the same meal, protein/carb Protein/fat only

3. Drink green tea


Man even on days I do not feel like working out can of beans and a peanutbutter sandwich and a glass of milk and I am amped. afterwards some fruit and a shake all good. carbs give you the energy I never have an empty stomach I eat like 8-10 times a day.

[RoJoHen]

I can barely function as a human being on an empty stomach. There's no way I could have an effective workout without eating first.

[ChrisG]

I always eat an hour and a half to an hour before I workout... I just can't do anything when I'm hungry like many other people have said. After a big meal with a protein shake thrown in I feel like a completely different person.

[jadizt]

Well, if I'm doing legs, I'll probably wait for 4 hours after a meal.

As the rest, it really depends. If I had a heavy lunch, probably the amount of 7 mcdonald fillet burgers, I'll wait for 3-4 hours but IF I had a healthy subway wrap with probably 5 eggs, I'll be hitting the gym in 1.5-2 hours. Listen to your body. Eat to live, not live to eat.

[speedster00]

If your lifting to grow....you should never work out on an empty stomach. If your lifting light and fast to loose weight, thats another story. Personally, I cant lift good with out a thousand callories in my gut.

[Big Rich]

I cannot lift first thing in the morning because I am so weak and tired.
My theory is lifting in the afternoon is better (at least for me) since I have had rest from the night before & nutrients/water throughout the day fueling the animal.
I can tear up some shit in the afternoon with 4 to 5 good meals in me and a gallon of water pumping in my muscles.

[Ricky P]

Only reason I wouldn't eat before the gym is if I was only doing cardio. I always make sure I eat about an hour to two hours before the gym. Any carbs I do consume are going to be slow-digesting carbs so that they can help me burn energy in the gym. Fast-digesting carbs only immediately after the gym. No way can you go to the gym to LIFT and have nothing in your stomach, that's just counter-productive. Your body has nothing to feed off of while it searches for energy stores. It may tap into your body fat but nothing is stopping it from tapping into your muscle cells either.

[Big Wides]

stomach is always full and i cant imagine lifting on an empty stomach, seems like energy levels would drop causing bad form which could lead to injury. before the gym is carbs and protein need to get through the workout. but everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[Torque757]

Well, if I'm doing legs, I'll probably wait for 4 hours after a meal.

As the rest, it really depends. If I had a heavy lunch, probably the amount of 7 mcdonald fillet burgers, I'll wait for 3-4 hours but IF I had a healthy subway wrap with probably 5 eggs, I'll be hitting the gym in 1.5-2 hours. Listen to your body. Eat to live, not live to eat.

Waiting 4 hrs after meal to work legs is a bad idea. Thats another hr or so before you get down another meal, thats 5 hours! Definantly not a good idea, the longest I go inbetween meals is 3 hours.

[Gainer65]

I eat a meal 60-90 mins.pre-workout.

[Budsbythebeach]

personally i hit the gym as soon as i wake up, i take my supplements on my empty stomach and make a nice shake, 65 protien/85 carbs ( banana N whey )
i perfer this because i get alot more intense and my supplements hit me harder on an empty stomach, i suck down the shake as i workout.

[Pokoritel]

Stuff yourself with carbs bro there aint nothing wrong with it. Worry about getting rid of fat when your shredding down.

[Rostov]

i have read a ton of articles and talked to some guys in the gym and they all tell me not to eat any carbs before working out so i burn fat. im trying to do this but its hard to keep up a high intensity when you are really hungary. Is anyone esle doing this and having success in lowering body fat?

This is not a good idea either way. At least have some protein or dextrose/maltodextrin or something before you train. You dont want to end up with muscle catabolism.

[Liftbig21]

You guys are bashing lifting on an empty stomach...then how do you take your stak or pump before lifting?It says you are supposed to and Pump is a mass gaining supplement...so your pretty much saying Universal is stupid for making you do that.

[Gainer65]

You guys are bashing lifting on an empty stomach...then how do you take your stak or pump before lifting?It says you are supposed to and Pump is a mass gaining supplement...so your pretty much saying Universal is stupid for making you do that.

To say you have to wait until your stomach is growling or it won't work is hogwash.The supps don't gain you mass,busting your balls in the gym,proper nutrition and rest gain you mass.If it were as easy as popping a few pills,we'd all be huge.

[Liftbig21]

To say you have to wait until your stomach is growling or it won't work is hogwash.The supps don't gain you mass,busting your balls in the gym,proper nutrition and rest gain you mass.If it were as easy as popping a few pills,we'd all be huge.


dont talk to me like im a beginner because im far from it..I know what it takes to get huge..i bust my ass in and out of the fucking gym everyday so do not knock my hustle,and it does opitmize the performance of the supplement on an empty stomach..Ive tried it on a full stomach and it did nothing...if it worked for you on an empty stomach right on thats a first time ive heard it .

[jadizt]

Waiting 4 hrs after meal to work legs is a bad idea. Thats another hr or so before you get down another meal, thats 5 hours! Definantly not a good idea, the longest I go inbetween meals is 3 hours.

Well, I dun do legs every day you know. :) That's just what I think because I'd puke if there's still food in my stomach while I get my ass in the grass.

But generally, it is all about experimenting. Somedays I take pump and mstak together. Somedays I take pump first then mstak 30mins later. Somedays I take mstak in the morning and pump right before training. I've never believed that there's A correct way. I believe as long as I stick to the basic eat, sleep, train, repeat concept I'll reach where I wanna be someday.

So to answer the question as to working out on empty stomach or not, I'd say BASED on my experience, empty or not makes a difference and it also depends on what exercises you're gonna do. If you're going for sets with reps like 8,6,4,4 then keep your stomach half full so u have extra energy. If you're going for supersets with reps up to 50-100, I dun think it would be fun puking all over the gym.

[Pokoritel]

dont talk to me like im a beginner because im far from it..I know what it takes to get huge..i bust my ass in and out of the fucking gym everyday so do not knock my hustle,and it does opitmize the performance of the supplement on an empty stomach..Ive tried it on a full stomach and it did nothing...if it worked for you on an empty stomach right on thats a first time ive heard it .

I may be wrong, so correct me. You are right because I heard that if you take supplements on an empty stomach your body absorbs it faster or something like that. I dont know if its true, so please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Rostov]

That whole idea is retarded. For these reasons:

1. LIFTING and losing bf should NEVER be put together, you do cardio and alter diet to lose bf...



This is totally not true. Weight lifting is probably one of the best ways to loose fat. Lifting consumes a lot more energy than cardio. Take a look at Francis Benfatto. The dude has just made a comeback at the age of 48, and in the best shape of his life. The kciker is he NEVER does cardio. He cuts through diet and intelligent weight training

[MountSaintTraps]

from being a hockey goalie my whole life, running hurts my knees nowadays. is swimming for cardio more effective for fat-burning

[benihonasghost]

its a great cardio and very low impact on the joints... i swam and did water polo every year in high school

[benihonasghost]

im not sure about the fat buring tho...

[Frankie86]

swimmings good cause its an entire body activity..you will burn weight off of swimming

[Tron]

im not sure about the fat buring tho...

How could it not be good at fat burning? Nothing works the body as well as swimming. It's the BEST way to get your cardio in.

[The_Beast]

Swimming, im going along with everyone else that it is one of the Best forms of Low-impact Cardio, in order to Develop the Cardio Vascular System along with Burning Fat.-

The_Beast

[dIdDy]

Does walking on an incline burn the same amount of fat as running?
We as bodybuilders, should we really be running to burn fat? Doesnt running burn in to the muscle we work so hard to build? Discuss.

the way I understand it is, the more intensity the More "aminos" are used for energy. Aminos = muscle

[bleed_alone]

i had this same question, yet the search answered it. the only thing left that i was wondering, was when to take your PWO shake? between lifting and cardio? or after cardio and lifting altogether... ?

[brandona]

i had this same question, yet the search answered it. the only thing left that i was wondering, was when to take your PWO shake? between lifting and cardio? or after cardio and lifting altogether... ?


After cardio, when you are all done and leaving the gym...so stay tuned..

-B

[bleed_alone]

haha alright good then cause that's what i did today anyway.

[ChrisG]

right on what with what toni says. if you are looking to burn calories from fat, you need to work in the lower end of your target heart rate (60-65%)

if you are going off those hear rate info the machines have to offer, it might not be as accurate as it could be. it doesn’t take much to find your low end target heart rate (le thr) for a rough calculation:

220 - (your age) = your maximum heart rate
mhr - (your resting heart rate...how many beats per minute while resting) = your hear rate reserve
hrr x 60% (% desired to work within) = training range %
tr% + resting heart rate = le thr
_______________________________

example:

220 - 30 = 190
190 - 60 = 130
130 x 60% = 78
78 + 60 = 138 le thr

______________________________

IMO, working in the le thr zone will burn more calories from fat than if your heart is working harder/faster/longer. if you do your cardio more frequent, at lower impact and at a medium duration, you will ultimately burn more fat calories than if you do cardio at a higher impact, longer duration, fewer times throughout the week. again, my opinon. i have a higher metabolism and have to work at keeping the weight on -- i have to keep as many good calories as i can.

oh -- don't forget to stretch.

I used that formula to calculate mine and got 157.2 which seems very high compared to others.

202 = Max Heart Rate (Used the age 18 instead of 17.. b-day in 2 weeks)
90 = Resting Heart Rate
112 = Heart Rate Reserve
67.2% = Training Range
157.2 = LE THR

So would I still stay around 130-135 bps or stay closer to 160? After lifting weights my heart rate was 150 something (taken a week or two ago)

[Angst]

For burning fat, my trainer had me walk on the treadmill set at the highest incline possible, I walked at a moderate pace. It worked big time for me.

[Fridge]

i walked the treadmill yesterday at 15% incline at level 4 (walking pace) for about 30min. Needless to say i was dripping sweat after i was done. However, i learned that these low intensity only work for the duration you perform them. So as soon as you step off the treadmill, your metabolism within minutes goes back to normal. Your best bet for max fat burning is high intensity interval training. For example i do sprinting.
Working you heart rate back and forth, making it rise then fall slightly is a great way to rev up your metabolism. Completing a ratio of 1/3 (so if you sprint for 10sec, then rest for 30sec and then repeat) is the most effective. Cases have been made that people were burning fat up to 24hrs after their workout. So even if you go in the treadmill, you can do things like walking for a minute, then run for 2, walk for a minute and then run for two more. processes like these on any machine or even running outside will definitley get you the fat burning results you need. I personally believe the best time to do it is right before you go to sleep, that way your metabolism is working like crazy while you sleep. Who woulda thought

[niladmirari88]

Whats up.
Just thought I would hear everyone's take on cardio and staying in the optimal heart rate range for burning fat. When I stay in that fate burning range of 127-145, sometimes I feel im not doing shit. I know Im not burning my muscle all up due to the high heart rate,but damn sometimes I feel Im not doing shit. Anyone else's ideas?


I dropped 40 solid nasty pounds of fat and water in 3 months and my heart rate would be 120-upper 130s for all of my cardio. Keep with it and be patient. That is at least what's worked for me. Peace.

[Avicara]

Whats going on fellas. I've been bulking for quite some time now and I would really like to start throwing in some cardio as well as adjusting my diet to stay lean. Right now here is my daily schedule.
7AM - Wake up and Eat, leave for work by 7:20.
8AM - 430PM is work with meals thrown in at 10, 1230-1 (depending on when I take my lunch break) then my pre-workout meal around 330-400.
I usually get to the gym at 5 oclock - 530 depending on traffic, and during that short time i take my supps, usually pump, and I will be throwing in the new M-stak.

Now here is where my dilemma is, well at least I think, after i'm done working out I immediatley pop my pack of nitro and 15-30 minutes later my protein shake. Now, for the rest of the day I finish up all of my meals. Normally I would throw in cardio later in the evening but more than often, I have personal things I need to tend to, and i would like to stay consistent.

Pretty much what I am asking is would it be possible to do my cardio right after I finish training with the weights and THEN take my nitro and protein shake after that is done? Or should I do cardio at a completly seperate time? I plan on doing about 30-45 mins after and eventually increasing the time.
Any feedback is greatly considered. Thanks in advance.

[gsb239]

Its really up to you. If your weight workouts aren't too long then you could take the nitro right after the weights, do your cardio and then have your protein shake.

A little off topic: but if you're bulking, get some carbs in right after your workout along with your protein. You want to keep your glycogen stores full during a bulk so you can stay anabolic. My choice would be gatorade or gatorade powder (more cost efficient than bottled gatorade). Dextrose and maltodextrin powders are also pretty popular on this forum. Something to think about...

[Freakenstein]

Its really up to you. If your weight workouts aren't too long then you could take the nitro right after the weights, do your cardio and then have your protein shake.

A little off topic: but if you're bulking, get some carbs in right after your workout along with your protein. You want to keep your glycogen stores full during a bulk so you can stay anabolic. My choice would be gatorade or gatorade powder (more cost efficient than bottled gatorade). Dextrose and maltodextrin powders are also pretty popular on this forum. Something to think about...

So what you're saying is that its better to take fast and slow carbs off after training when cutting? Are you always supposed to take your ex. maltodextrin after workout and rice at meal after or not when on diet?

[billmd1334]

me personally... I lift, and then I go and hit my cardio immediately after working out, then I take my PWO shake... I haven't seen any negative effects from it

[JMC]

Personally I never liked doing cardio after lifting. I usually don't have the energy to get in a quality cardio w/o. Think about after leg day...I can barely walk to the car, let alone take a run. I do know plenty who do that...always after lifting though. As far as the shake goes. The worst thing for me would be just feeling like ass if I took a PWO shake then started running.

[Big Wides]

i do my cardio right after i'm done hitting the weights for 45 minutes. after that, i mix up my PWO in my car and drink it. do the cardio after the weights so that when you take the Nitro G and PWO your body can be more receptive and fight cortisol.

[Freakenstein]

Animals!...talking about cardio and cuts, do you still keep your carbs after cardio? or you take them off?

[Travis]

Animals!...talking about cardio and cuts, do you still keep your carbs after cardio? or you take them off?

carbs post cardio. I could be wrong but from what i've picked up around the forvm fast digesting carbs are more essential powo then protein. cardio is a workout and depending on what kind it could be helping you put muscle on. things like the exercise bike on the hardest level tear my legs up pretty good. i've also held weights in my hands and done that stair master contraption. but like i said from what i've picked up, the general belief is fast digesting carbs then about 45 minutes later get in your slow digesting and some good protein.

[Freakenstein]

carbs post cardio. I could be wrong but from what i've picked up around the forvm fast digesting carbs are more essential powo then protein. cardio is a workout and depending on what kind it could be helping you put muscle on. things like the exercise bike on the hardest level tear my legs up pretty good. i've also held weights in my hands and done that stair master contraption. but like i said from what i've picked up, the general belief is fast digesting carbs then about 45 minutes later get in your slow digesting and some good protein.

So what you are saying is even when cutting, carbs are used?

[Travis]

So what you are saying is even when cutting, carbs are used?

yes but lightly. the only carbs you would get would be powo fast digesting and maybe some slow digesting in the morning. if you can get along without carbs your my hero, i start to black out and get extremely cranky when i go without them. my mom has made the rule that so long as i'm living at home i can't carb cut anymore lol.

[Travis]

are you carb cycling?

[IRBS]

yes but lightly. the only carbs you would get would be powo fast digesting and maybe some slow digesting in the morning. if you can get along without carbs your my hero, i start to black out and get extremely cranky when i go without them. my mom has made the rule that so long as i'm living at home i can't carb cut anymore lol.

So true, I would get delirious if I cut out carbs completely. Give Carb cycling a try, I've had good results so far, and so have others.

[Chin]

So what you are saying is even when cutting, carbs are used?

Yes... If you don't take carbs right after your body will start breaking down everything and anything to replish its glycogen stores.

Personally, I do cardio first thing in the morning as opposed to after my workouts... I am too exhausted from lifting to do any sort of cardio after weights.

Chin

[Freakenstein]

are you carb cycling?

Yes I am, my only doubt was if to keep carbs after training even on cutting periods, because I was on a strict diet for 3 months then decided towards the end to throw in rice PWO meal and my abs tended to fade out slowly. I'm sure some other factor came into play...don't know, BUT I can see the difference now keeping the carbs even on diet (I'm fuller).
I was flat like a "sardine" and eventually crashed :-) .I still see some water under my abs skin...if I take away rice, my abs clean out....I'm missing something for sure, let it be quantity or timing(50 grams carbs from malto after lifting+cardio, then 75-80 grams carbs from brown rice PWO meal).

[Travis]

Yes I am, my only doubt was if to keep carbs after training even on cutting periods, because I was on a strict diet for 3 months then decided towards the end to throw in rice PWO meal and my abs tended to fade out slowly. I'm sure some other factor came into play...don't know, BUT I can see the difference now keeping the carbs even on diet (I'm fuller).
I was flat like a "sardine" and eventually crashed :-) .I still see some water under my abs skin...if I take away rice, my abs clean out....I'm missing something for sure, let it be quantity or timing(50 grams carbs from malto after lifting+cardio, then 75-80 grams carbs from brown rice PWO meal).

i don't know what malto is and the 75-80 carbs pre workout seems a bit much. i'd try to cut that in half see how you do. especially if your saying you see better