PDA

View Full Version : what split is better for getting bigger?



Kingquads
08-10-09, 9:36 pm
day 1 chest,tri
day 2 back, bi
day 3 rest
day 4 delts
day 5 legs
day 6 repeat

or

day 1 chest,back
day 2 rest
day 3 arms
day 4 legs
day 5 delts
day 6 rest
day 7 repeat

thanks all, and if you can list the exercises too that would be cool

npeezy
08-10-09, 10:04 pm
day 1 chest,back
day 2 rest
day 3 arms
day 4 legs
day 5 delts
day 6 rest
day 7 repeat

thanks all, and if you can list the exercises too that would be cool

this split works very well...i am actually doing the same thing. do it in a push pull fashion tho.

this is the exercises i usually do each sessions..

CHEST/BACK
-flat bb press
-bb rows
-incline db press
-pullups
-flat db fly
-close grip lat pulldowns

LEGS
-squats
-stiff legged deads
-front squats
-leg curls
-leg extensions

TRI/BI
-close grip bench
-bb curls
-seated overhead extensions (skull crusher motion)
-preacher curls
-rope pulldowns
-db hammer curls

SHOULDERS/TRAPS/CALVES
-db/bb press
-upright rows
-incline rear laterals
-db side laterals
-bb/db shrugs
-calf presses
-seated calf raises

Kingquads
08-10-09, 11:00 pm
this split works very well...i am actually doing the same thing. do it in a push pull fashion tho.

this is the exercises i usually do each sessions..

CHEST/BACK
-flat bb press
-bb rows
-incline db press
-pullups
-flat db fly
-close grip lat pulldowns

LEGS
-squats
-stiff legged deads
-front squats
-leg curls
-leg extensions

TRI/BI
-close grip bench
-bb curls
-seated overhead extensions (skull crusher motion)
-preacher curls
-rope pulldowns
-db hammer curls

SHOULDERS/TRAPS/CALVES
-db/bb press
-upright rows
-incline rear laterals
-db side laterals
-bb/db shrugs
-calf presses
-seated calf raises


thanks for stepping up to the plate and responding man, yea ill prolly do something like that

whosnexttt
08-11-09, 4:00 am
day 1 chest,tri
day 2 back, bi
day 3 rest
day 4 delts
day 5 legs
day 6 repeat

or

day 1 chest,back
day 2 rest
day 3 arms
day 4 legs
day 5 delts
day 6 rest
day 7 repeat

thanks all, and if you can list the exercises too that would be cool

hmmm it all depends.....are you lacking in arms? id go with the first one so that you can get the most out of your heavy presses and heavy rows

MVP
08-11-09, 4:07 am
The 2nd one, without a doubt. An antagonistic style routine would bring positive benefit.

Day 1 - Chest & Back
**Deadlift
**Bench / BB Row (Strip-set)
**Incline Press / Pullup (Strip-Set)
**Face Pulls / Parallel Dips (Strip-Set)

Day 3 - Legs & Arms
**Squat
**Stiff-leg deadlift / GHR
**Barbell Curl / Skull Crushers
**Triceps Extensions

Day 5 - Shoulders
**Press
**Cable Lateral Raises
**BO Lateral Raise
**Weighted Abdominals

Something like that you cannot go wrong with.

By the way, hypertrophy is 80% depended up diet. You won't gain size without the proper nutrition regardless of what program you're on.

Kingquads
08-11-09, 4:11 am
hmmm it all depends.....are you lacking in arms? id go with the first one so that you can get the most out of your heavy presses and heavy rows

i dont actually lack in my arms but i surely want to get them bigger

Kingquads
08-11-09, 4:13 am
The 2nd one, without a doubt. An antagonistic style routine would bring positive benefit.

Day 1 - Chest & Back
**Deadlift
**Bench / BB Row (Strip-set)
**Incline Press / Pullup (Strip-Set)
**Face Pulls / Parallel Dips (Strip-Set)

Day 3 - Legs & Arms
**Squat
**Stiff-leg deadlift / GHR
**Barbell Curl / Skull Crushers
**Triceps Extensions

Day 5 - Shoulders
**Press
**Cable Lateral Raises
**BO Lateral Raise
**Weighted Abdominals

Something like that you cannot go wrong with.

By the way, hypertrophy is 80% depended up diet. You won't gain size without the proper nutrition regardless of what program you're on.

yea ill prolly do something like that, oh and trust me my nutrition is going great, ive gained unbelievable muscle for my age this year, i just wanna take it to the next level now

theharjmann
08-11-09, 4:36 am
day 1 chest,tri
day 2 back, bi
day 3 rest
day 4 delts
day 5 legs
day 6 repeat

or

day 1 chest,back
day 2 rest
day 3 arms
day 4 legs
day 5 delts
day 6 rest
day 7 repeat

thanks all, and if you can list the exercises too that would be cool

Personally i would say to rest at least 2 days if you wanna gain.

Out of cuiosity; can you please post your diet up?

Kingquads
08-11-09, 4:50 am
Personally i would say to rest at least 2 days if you wanna gain.

Out of cuiosity; can you please post your diet up?

why?!?!? do you think i dont know about dieting or something? thats disrespectful dude!!! haha

Kingquads
08-11-09, 4:51 am
Personally i would say to rest at least 2 days if you wanna gain.

Out of cuiosity; can you please post your diet up?

not if you post yours first!!!!

theharjmann
08-11-09, 4:57 am
why?!?!? do you think i dont know about dieting or something? thats disrespectful dude!!! haha

i asked coz this is a forum....i may pick up a nigget of info from your diet, and you may get some valuable info from users if you post yours.....its all about learning new things man

Kingquads
08-11-09, 1:56 pm
i asked coz this is a forum....i may pick up a nigget of info from your diet, and you may get some valuable info from users if you post yours.....its all about learning new things man

true that man but my diet knowledge is great and my diet is working for me so if it aint broke dont fix it, how bout yours? maybe i can "nigget" your diet? i mean a while back i saw you had orange juice post workout so i know from looking at that you could have some pointers, of course not just from me that is......

dyskee
08-11-09, 4:16 pm
i love the good old chest & back, legs, shoulders&arms rest repeat

sideburnz
08-11-09, 10:16 pm
sorry to intrude.. but i didnt know that doing chest and back on the same day is actually 'do-able'.. i mean both of them are big parts and need a lot of volume.. especially back.. if you're gonna do both muscle group in 1day its gonna take a very long time to complete the workout... you had rather do 1 muscle group per day .. so that you can just go gung-ho and with much more intensity for that muscle group per day..

This is what i usually do..

mon-back
tues-chest
wed-legs
thurs-delts
fri-arms
sat & sun - off

if you think i'm wrong then its okay.. but it works for me..

futurefreak101
08-11-09, 10:35 pm
not sure how u can do 2 major bodyparts like chest and back in the same day...when im done with back i feel like i couldnt move a 10 pound weight

this is what i do

mon-back
tue-arms
wed-legs
thur-shoulders
fri-chest
sat-sun rest rest

been my split for years..only thing i change is the volume and amount of weight i use.

Kingquads
08-11-09, 11:00 pm
not sure how u can do 2 major bodyparts like chest and back in the same day...when im done with back i feel like i couldnt move a 10 pound weight

this is what i do

mon-back
tue-arms
wed-legs
thur-shoulders
fri-chest
sat-sun rest rest

been my split for years..only thing i change is the volume and amount of weight i use.

your not sure how to do it? here i can show ya

bench press rest a min then do
barbell rows

incline press rest a min then do
dumbbell rows

dips
chin ups

put in deadlifts in there once every 2 weeks or once a month to make your deadlifts beneficial to your physique and your health

sideburnz
08-11-09, 11:25 pm
your not sure how to do it? here i can show ya

bench press rest a min then do
barbell rows

incline press rest a min then do
dumbbell rows

dips
chin ups

put in deadlifts in there once every 2 weeks or once a month to make your deadlifts beneficial to your physique and your health

bro i totally believe that for back you need to do at least a minimum of 16sets if you really wanna have a fuller looking back.. & at least 14sets for chest.. all you did for chest were compound movements,which is great but you do need isolations too bro.. this shows that you're not really putting enough work into the specific muscle group.. cos if you did chest and back.. you would be doing close to 30sets.. which is simply crazy..

futurefreak101
08-11-09, 11:48 pm
rightt.

for back i do barbell rows..deadlifts...dumbell rows...then a good amount of machines.

kinda of makes no sense to do a set of incline press then go do a row lol..two completely different things your doing
not like your doing back and bis or chest and tris your basically doing two things that dont even go together..you should just do full body workouts if your going to lift like that.

Kingquads
08-11-09, 11:59 pm
bro i totally believe that for back you need to do at least a minimum of 16sets if you really wanna have a fuller looking back.. & at least 14sets for chest.. all you did for chest were compound movements,which is great but you do need isolations too bro.. this shows that you're not really putting enough work into the specific muscle group.. cos if you did chest and back.. you would be doing close to 30sets.. which is simply crazy..

go ahead believe that, but if you look at the "biggest bodybuilders" theyl do 1 or 2 working sets per exercise, like for example ronnie colemans back workout is usually something like this, barbell rows 3 working sets, t-bar rows 2-3 working sets, dumbbell rows 2-3 working sets......you dont need that much volume, you just need to know what to do sideburnz, so you see....you learn something new everyday sideburnz.....keep taking notes kid.

Kingquads
08-12-09, 12:01 am
rightt.

for back i do barbell rows..deadlifts...dumbell rows...then a good amount of machines.

kinda of makes no sense to do a set of incline press then go do a row lol..two completely different things your doing
not like your doing back and bis or chest and tris your basically doing two things that dont even go together..you should just do full body workouts if your going to lift like that.

i bet people told that to arnold and it just motivated him to keep on doing it, but im not arnold, but i can lift chest and back if i want, its not hard, if you can put maximum effort in it then go home......

whosnexttt
08-12-09, 12:02 am
bro i totally believe that for back you need to do at least a minimum of 16sets if you really wanna have a fuller looking back.. & at least 14sets for chest.. all you did for chest were compound movements,which is great but you do need isolations too bro.. this shows that you're not really putting enough work into the specific muscle group.. cos if you did chest and back.. you would be doing close to 30sets.. which is simply crazy..

dude sideburnz ive seen your post from the past.....sorry to say this but you dont know shit, stop helping people and go lift

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 12:16 am
this thread is just turning into trash talking.
i was just stating my opinoin..if it works for you fine..all i said is i cant see myself doing a row then a incline press..just makes no sense to me..no need to get all offended and say if you cant go hard then go home..trust me i know all about going hard..loose the ego.

Kingquads
08-12-09, 12:40 am
this thread is just turning into trash talking.
i was just stating my opinoin..if it works for you fine..all i said is i cant see myself doing a row then a incline press..just makes no sense to me..no need to get all offended and say if you cant go hard then go home..trust me i know all about going hard..loose the ego.

loose the ego? are we at the gym? lol

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 12:48 am
loose the ego? are we at the gym? lol

i completely misread your post.
i thought you said if you cant go hard then just go home
never mind
hah

Kingquads
08-12-09, 1:25 am
i completely misread your post.
i thought you said if you cant go hard then just go home
never mind
hah

hhhahahahahahaah you thought i said if you cant go hard then just go home, well you thought right!!! if you cant do chest and back togethere then just go home or just simpily just do chest or back seperately!! just use your head!! your making things so complicated man.......

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 1:42 am
hhhahahahahahaah you thought i said if you cant go hard then just go home, well you thought right!!! if you cant do chest and back togethere then just go home or just simpily just do chest or back seperately!! just use your head!! your making things so complicated man.......

yea whatever u say

Kingquads
08-12-09, 1:51 am
yea whatever u say

best just to ignore things and end this

Kingquads
08-12-09, 1:51 am
yea whatever u say

agreed?

MVP
08-12-09, 3:02 am
Chest and back are not hard to perform together. They are the opposites, they're antagonists. It's like performing triceps and biceps in the same day, just reverse the force in the same planes and positions and you have that movement. None carryover to exhaust the other. Chest and back training together are ideal.

sideburnz
08-12-09, 11:17 am
dude sideburnz ive seen your post from the past.....sorry to say this but you dont know shit, stop helping people and go lift

bro i think thats very disrespectful of you.. i was just stating my opinion.. if i don't know shit.. i wouldn't be seeing improvements in myself.. so cut the crap ..

Dedicated
08-12-09, 11:38 am
If you can train chest and back in the same day you need to up the intensity, just my opinion. While I understand your point about them being antagonist, I just don't see how it's ideal. There are 7 days in the week, there are better ways to split up your training than trying to focus on two of your main body parts in one day.

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 12:27 pm
bro i think thats very disrespectful of you.. i was just stating my opinion.. if i don't know shit.. i wouldn't be seeing improvements in myself.. so cut the crap ..

all his posts are disrespectful.

sideburnz
08-12-09, 1:18 pm
all his posts are disrespectful.

are you referring to whosnext? yeah this place is for ppl to share their knowledge.. if you think it doesn't work, you should just ignore them and shut up.. no need for insults..if you're so great then you shouldn't even be in this forum..

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 1:36 pm
are you referring to whosnext? yeah this place is for ppl to share their knowledge.. if you think it doesn't work, you should just ignore them and shut up.. no need for insults..if you're so great then you shouldn't even be in this forum..

both of them
banned anyway.
sick of talking about it.
i ended it but he just kept going on and on.

MrMonday
08-12-09, 2:15 pm
If you can train chest and back in the same day you need to up the intensity, just my opinion. While I understand your point about them being antagonist, I just don't see how it's ideal. There are 7 days in the week, there are better ways to split up your training than trying to focus on two of your main body parts in one day.

Agreed.

MVP
08-12-09, 2:23 pm
Training 5X per week is one of the worse things a natural athlete can do.

Chest and back together will not negatively impact one another.

The more work you put in in 1 session the greater the hormonal response as a result of stress.

Distributing the workload into smaller portions throughout the week lessens the stress and reflective hormonal response.

2 hours post-workout testosterone drops to the lowest levels while cortisol remains high.

Steroid users don't care about working out 5 to 6 days a week because they don't experience a drop because they are artificially elevating it continuously.

I'm not anti-steroid, just saying, that's why I believe natural athletes should train 3-4X per week.

I disbelieve in chest with tri's being productive. Triceps are synergists to chest movements, therefore, they will automatically be exhausted when it's their time to perform optimal by themselves. Biceps with chest makes more sense, that way the overload carries with more frequency and each can work optimally.

Not recommending back with chest is like disregarding triceps with biceps.

As far as the banning goes, I'm glad. Whosnext has been lying about his lifts from the beginning.

Needless to say I believe a full body routine would be more productive anyway, not that I'm anti-split. :)

sideburnz
08-12-09, 2:29 pm
If you can train chest and back in the same day you need to up the intensity, just my opinion. While I understand your point about them being antagonist, I just don't see how it's ideal. There are 7 days in the week, there are better ways to split up your training than trying to focus on two of your main body parts in one day.

that was what i was trying to imply.. but i guess ppl got it wrongly.. i dont know..

sideburnz
08-12-09, 2:33 pm
both of them
banned anyway.
sick of talking about it.
i ended it but he just kept going on and on.

what do u mean by banned anyway? they're banned from this site?

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 2:34 pm
i have been training 5 times a week for a while (natural) i must admit it will make you very tired after awhile..but i have seen my best gains from it..being in the gym 5 days a week and never missing a day is just hard after awhile.

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 2:34 pm
what do u mean by banned anyway? they're banned from this site?

if you look under their usernames it says "banned"

sideburnz
08-12-09, 3:03 pm
if you look under their usernames it says "banned"

whoa that was fast

Dedicated
08-12-09, 6:04 pm
Training 5 days a week has worked for plenty of natural lifters. To say that there is a clear line of distinction between working 5,4, or 3 days just isn't true. What works for one person may not work for another. Different bodies respond in different ways. I'm currently doing a 3 day a week full body routine, so I'm not just a split routine homer.

If there was one cut and dry method that worked for everyone then everyone would be doing it.

futurefreak101
08-12-09, 6:40 pm
Training 5 days a week has worked for plenty of natural lifters. To say that there is a clear line of distinction between working 5,4, or 3 days just isn't true. What works for one person may not work for another. Different bodies respond in different ways. I'm currently doing a 3 day a week full body routine, so I'm not just a split routine homer.

If there was one cut and dry method that worked for everyone then everyone would be doing it.

very true
i used to do 6 days a week dunno wtf i was thinking
now i do 5 and its still becoming too much in the middle of the week you start wearing down

im about to switch to something 3 days a week so i have high intensity for every workout..
im telling you that 5 day split will get to you sooner or later....it wears down on you

MVP
08-12-09, 7:37 pm
Training 5 days a week has worked for plenty of natural lifters. To say that there is a clear line of distinction between working 5,4, or 3 days just isn't true. What works for one person may not work for another. Different bodies respond in different ways. I'm currently doing a 3 day a week full body routine, so I'm not just a split routine homer.

If there was one cut and dry method that worked for everyone then everyone would be doing it.

You can say all you want but the laws of science aren't up for debate. It's been proven countless times the hormonal response decreases significantly with 5 day training routines.

The whole "what works for other people" is an excuse a lot of people use to avoid hardwork (not saying YOU use it or anything, just saying). Does everyone respond differently from medicine? Why is it when new programs come out people that actually stick with it all respond? It's because the human body is more similar than it's made out to be.

As far as routines that "don't work" goes. I question their diet and dedication more than the routine. Who's to say they stuck with the program, kept good form and used progressive overload?

5 day training routines I cannot see myself ever recommending to a person that trains all natural.

MrMonday
08-12-09, 10:09 pm
5 day training routines I cannot see myself ever recommending to a person that trains all natural.

5-day training has always worked for me.

I believe the more often you can get to the gym, the better.

npeezy
08-12-09, 10:54 pm
stick with the antagonist muscle group split. i has worked since the 70s when arnold did it, and it works now. it has been proven through science that it works and there are a TON of body builders that can make that a reality. The science shows that when pushing, and then pulling it actually makes the other muscle group stronger by stretching it the opposite direction and allowing it to recover a bit, then vise versa when doing the opposing muscle group 5 mins later...same goes with tris and bis and same goes with quads and hams.

Then since shoulders are hit to the extreme during both back and chest movements, you dont need a ton of volume when its shoulder day. same with calves....save them for after shoulders and on leg day just focus on pushing and pulling..

on shoulder day all you need is:

-db/bb press
-rear laterals
-side lateral
-shrug movement
-calves...presses and raises..
done.

I actually had this workout last night and i was out in 35 mins.

but forget all the haters....stick with the antagonist split and let your body prove the theories behind it. :]


/end.

MVP
08-12-09, 11:08 pm
5-day training has always worked for me.

I believe the more often you can get to the gym, the better.

I agree with the bold statement, but hormonal issues tend to accompany 5 day training methods. 5 day training methods would definitely work, but with more appropriate hormonal benefits in example allowing testosterone elevation would be more efficient IMO.

Dedicated
08-12-09, 11:39 pm
I don't think the hormonal benefit is large enough to make a difference. Don't act like that's a cut and dry statement because the debate is still open as to whether or not it has any real impact on muscle growth.

I like any routine that's not stupid. As long as you're covering all the bases and hitting the muscles in a balanced way then you're going to grow whether it be by split, full body, or whatever else someone could come up with. With all respect towards you because you know your stuff, the reality is that both methods have their own unique benefits.

I find that it's tough for me to stick with a full body routine for extended periods of time because I just get exhausted. I think for beginners there is no reason to not use a full body routine, but, once you've have a solid base built, split routines allow you to focus on lagging body parts and lift heavy weight every time you go to the gym.

MVP
08-13-09, 12:20 am
I agree with you regarding full body and split routines. Splits generally work better for more advanced guys due to recovery issues and movement variations.

As far as testosterone and cortisol goes, testosterone would aid in the production of contractile proteins like myosin and actin.

Agreed with the "everything works" comment. ;-)

LegendKillerJosh
08-13-09, 1:03 am
Training 5 days a week has worked for plenty of natural lifters. To say that there is a clear line of distinction between working 5,4, or 3 days just isn't true. What works for one person may not work for another. Different bodies respond in different ways. I'm currently doing a 3 day a week full body routine, so I'm not just a split routine homer.

If there was one cut and dry method that worked for everyone then everyone would be doing it.

I've always believed that you COULD get results working out 5-6 days per week with a high volume approach. I've also always believed you WILL get the results faster following a high INTENSITY routine with plenty of rest between workouts.

MrMonday
08-13-09, 7:49 am
I've always believed that you COULD get results working out 5-6 days per week with a high volume approach. I've also always believed you WILL get the results faster following a high INTENSITY routine with plenty of rest between workouts.

My body seems to prefer a routine that has a high intensity, high volume, and higher frequency of stimulation. lol

And I'm not alone either, I have simply built up to training that way. I think a lot of you are making the mistake of ignoring the body's inherent ability to adapt, and as far as the "hormonal problems" with training 5 days a week, I don't know what studies you are citing but that just sounds ridiculous.

Dedicated
08-13-09, 11:05 am
Science does support that claim, but it's much like the old, "If you squat you're body produces more testosterone". It's true, but has very little impact.

I guess every little bit helps though.

MVP
08-13-09, 4:21 pm
Squats aren't a good exercise because of testosterone. It's a good exercise because it's a natural movement and it has the ability to overload so many muscle groups at one time.

When I hear someone saying they want to squat because of testosterone it sounds like they're a potty trained child that continues shitting his pants.

Dedicated
08-13-09, 5:26 pm
Hahahaha. Great analogy dude. I prefer Rippatoe's approach better: "There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy."

MVP
08-13-09, 5:41 pm
I like this one.

"We call it the "press" over the overhead press because what other type of press would you be doing? You could "leg" press, but that's gay."

- Mark Rippetoe

theharjmann
08-14-09, 5:53 am
a while back i saw you had orange juice post workout so i know from looking at that you could have some pointers, of course not just from me that is......

whats wrong with orange juice!?!?!

A) It tastes nice
B) Its got lots of carbs in
C) Its got Vitamin C in

nothing beats the refreshing sensation of ice cold OJ after an intense session!

oh yeah and a few scoops of whey protein of course