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Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 8:33 pm
Hey guys, I gotta fast next month. I was just wondering how can i keep the weight on and maybe even gain some weight? I pretty much only have two meals a day. I was think to throw in some real gains and eaa Nitro, and alot of protien + carbs from chicken,beef, rice, potatoes and sometimes fish, in these two and make them two huge meals. sound good?

TigerAce01
08-19-09, 9:00 pm
So how is that fasting?

-Ace

drag0590
08-19-09, 9:09 pm
im fasting to bro :).......umm i would eat slow digesting carbs in the morning...and the same at night when u break ur fast like brown rice, sweet potato...so u have a slow release of insulin throughout the day, and with protein stick with weight gainers , or just plain whey protien... steak and chicken ....

a good diet i followed last time i fasted was

MEAL 1 : , 2 slices whole grain toast, 4 eggs, 2 scoops whey protein blended with 1 cup skim milk and 2 cups oatmeal, 1 multivitamin, 3 fish oil capsuals , amino acids, 2 scoops glutimine


MEAL 2 : 3 CUPS brown rice, 2 cups broccoli, 3 steaks, chicken breast etc. 3 dates, 2cups skim milk, 1 multivitanmin 3 fish oil capsuals , amino acids, 2 scoops glutimine


BEFORE BED : drink 2 scoops of casien or whey protien, blended with 2 cups of milk, penut butter and 1 cup oats, 1 serving aminos

THAT will "HELP" u keep the weight.....but expect to lose 5 pounds

Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 9:17 pm
So how is that fasting?

-Ace

my Bad bro, i forgot to include its from like 4 am to 8 pm somthing like that.

Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 9:21 pm
im fasting to bro :).......umm i would eat slow digesting carbs in the morning...and the same at night when u break ur fast like brown rice, sweet potato...so u have a slow release of insulin throughout the day, and with protein stick with weight gainers , or just plain whey protien... steak and chicken ....

a good diet i followed last time i fasted was

MEAL 1 : , 2 slices whole grain toast, 4 eggs, 2 scoops whey protein blended with 1 cup skim milk and 2 cups oatmeal, 1 multivitamin, 3 fish oil capsuals , amino acids, 2 scoops glutimine


MEAL 2 : 3 CUPS brown rice, 2 cups broccoli, 3 steaks, chicken breast etc. 3 dates, 2cups skim milk, 1 multivitanmin 3 fish oil capsuals , amino acids, 2 scoops glutimine


BEFORE BED : drink 2 scoops of casien or whey protien, blended with 2 cups of milk, penut butter and 1 cup oats, 1 serving aminos

THAT will "HELP" u keep the weight.....but expect to lose 5 pounds

thanks alot man, ya helped me out. but if i get my daily calorie needs how will i lose weight? i mean for example i need 2000 a day i eat 1000 meal 1 and 1000 meal 2?

thanks again guys.

drag0590
08-19-09, 9:37 pm
if u want to cut the diet will be quite similar

Meal 1 : 2 cups oatmeal, 1 tablespoon of honey, 2 scoops whey protien, 1 cup skim milk, 6 egg whites

same vitamins/ supplements....as other diet

-do 30 minute cardio before breaking ur fast....... (if u can handle it)

meal 2 : 2 cups brown rice, or 1 sweet potato... 2 cups broccoli, 3 steaks, or chicken breasts 1 large mixed salad with olive oil and vinager
same vitamins/ supplements as other diet....


_ do thirty minute cardio 30 minutes after breaking ur fast
small circuit for muscle: 30 pushups (3 sets).....(increase amount if can do more) 10 chinups (3 sets till failure)....1 set of 12 reps of ez bar arm curls, 1 set side laterals for shoulders 12 reps.....20 knee squats.....

before BED : 2 SCOOPS whey protien or CASEINTATE, with water

Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 9:42 pm
ight thx man.

TigerAce01
08-19-09, 9:58 pm
my Bad bro, i forgot to include its from like 4 am to 8 pm somthing like that.

Gotcha. Thought you were allowed to eat two meals whenever you wanted, which I've never heard of during fasting. Is this part of a diet, or is it for personal reasons?

-Ace

Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 10:05 pm
Gotcha. Thought you were allowed to eat two meals whenever you wanted, which I've never heard of during fasting. Is this part of a diet, or is it for personal reasons?

-Ace

religious reasons.

TigerAce01
08-19-09, 10:20 pm
religious reasons.

I said personal reasons because we aren't allowed to discuss religion haha hope everything goes well brother!

-Ace

Maccabee
08-19-09, 10:21 pm
Eat everything in site for those two meals. You don't have a choice.

LegendKillerJosh
08-19-09, 11:19 pm
The realistic answer is, sorry to say, you probably can't bulk when you gotta fast for 16 hours at a time. Bulking is about eating frequently to fuel those muscles. Even if you are able to eat a couple thousand calories for each of your two meals, those 16 hours are probably going to be catabolic. Hopefully you can atleast maintain all of your hard earned muscle though. You may as well take advantage of this time of fasting to cut some fat and maintain that muscle.

Muscleguy93
08-19-09, 11:21 pm
thanks guys.

TigerAce01
08-19-09, 11:32 pm
The realistic answer is, sorry to say, you probably can't bulk when you gotta fast for 16 hours at a time. Bulking is about eating frequently to fuel those muscles. Even if you are able to eat a couple thousand calories for each of your two meals, those 16 hours are probably going to be catabolic. Hopefully you can atleast maintain all of your hard earned muscle though. You may as well take advantage of this time of fasting to cut some fat and maintain that muscle.

I disagree. Your metabolism slows almost to a hault when you fast like this, and the body begins to hoard calories and stored them. While gains might not be the leanest, it's very possible to still go up in weight, and at the very least maintain as long as you take in a shit ton of calories for those meals.

A calorie excess is a calorie excess.

-Ace

Ironjaw
08-20-09, 1:34 am
I disagree. Your metabolism slows almost to a hault when you fast like this, and the body begins to hoard calories and stored them. While gains might not be the leanest, it's very possible to still go up in weight, and at the very least maintain as long as you take in a shit ton of calories for those meals.

A calorie excess is a calorie excess.

-Ace

i agree try to eat as clean as possible to minimize utter fat gain but ye eat a helluva lot when u are allowed

LegendKillerJosh
08-20-09, 11:53 am
I disagree. Your metabolism slows almost to a hault when you fast like this, and the body begins to hoard calories and stored them. While gains might not be the leanest, it's very possible to still go up in weight, and at the very least maintain as long as you take in a shit ton of calories for those meals.

A calorie excess is a calorie excess.

-Ace

Yeah, and when your metabolism slows to that near hault, and needs to store calories - it breaks down muscle tissue and stores it as fat.

ironshaolin
08-20-09, 12:25 pm
Look into Ori Hofmekler's the warrior diet. His diet is on the premise of underfeeding/overfeeding. So, you go all day without eating, and then go nuts and night.

N. Motta
08-20-09, 12:45 pm
Is this part of a diet, or is it for personal reasons?

-Ace

Ramadan.

Muscleguy93
08-20-09, 1:06 pm
thanks for the help bros.

TigerAce01
08-20-09, 2:05 pm
Ramadan.

We aren't allowed to discuss religion on the FORVM. Hence why I said personal reasons and explained it further in another post.

-Ace

GJN5002
08-20-09, 4:03 pm
I disagree. Your metabolism slows almost to a hault when you fast like this, and the body begins to hoard calories and stored them. While gains might not be the leanest, it's very possible to still go up in weight, and at the very least maintain as long as you take in a shit ton of calories for those meals.

A calorie excess is a calorie excess.

-Ace

Not true, thats like saying a car is a car. A ford escort is not a ferrari. There are hormones working their magic as well. While I agree that your body stores calories when in a state of starvation, its proabaly not going to use them to build muscle, more so to store them as fat. Fasting can work but I dont think bulking and fasting og together well. I would just try to maintain your muscle until ramdan is over then get back at it.

Youre young so just eta whatever you want fo ryou two big meals and get through the month.

Muscleguy93
08-20-09, 4:54 pm
Thanks for the help bros.

TigerAce01
08-20-09, 4:56 pm
Not true, thats like saying a car is a car. A ford escort is not a ferrari. There are hormones working their magic as well. While I agree that your body stores calories when in a state of starvation, its proabaly not going to use them to build muscle, more so to store them as fat. Fasting can work but I dont think bulking and fasting og together well. I would just try to maintain your muscle until ramdan is over then get back at it.

Youre young so just eta whatever you want fo ryou two big meals and get through the month.

So having 3,000 calories isn't having 3,000 calories? I believe that would be called a proof in mathematics. If you only need 2,500 for maintenance and you took in 3,000, that would be a calorie excess...there is in no possible way to say any different. Now...if I said "a calorie is a calorie"...then you would be right. But I didn't. I am correct.

And I do believe I said the gains won't be the leanest, meaning you simply reiterated my post into your own words. Read more carefully.

-Ace

Cstlfx
08-20-09, 5:54 pm
If you're going to try and bulk while doing a sun up-sun down fast, I would try to do as little as possible while you're fasting. Then, workout at night when you are able to eat.

The reason I say this is because certain hormones in your body will rise due to the stress the fasting puts on your body. This rise in levels will in turn have your body aiming most energy to fat storage once food is introduced. Muscle construction will not be high on the agenda. Bulking while fasting? I'd say probably not. But I see no reason why you wont be able to maintain all of your gains during this time. Its around a month so you should be all set to go.

GJN5002
08-20-09, 6:15 pm
So having 3,000 calories isn't having 3,000 calories? I believe that would be called a proof in mathematics. If you only need 2,500 for maintenance and you took in 3,000, that would be a calorie excess...there is in no possible way to say any different. Now...if I said "a calorie is a calorie"...then you would be right. But I didn't. I am correct.

And I do believe I said the gains won't be the leanest, meaning you simply reiterated my post into your own words. Read more carefully.

-Ace


so having a calorie excess spread out of 18 hours eating every three hours is the same as a calorie excess with 1 huge meal in the morning and at night? It will the have the same effect on the body? Hormone levels will be similar and thus fat storage, anabolism and catabolism will be essentially the same?I dont think so, not for bulking purposes and putting on mass. Fasting can be used effectively to cut weight but Ive never seen anyone bulk while fasting, but you are the one who is right so you can tell me the right answer.

And I did read carefully, I m saying you are probably not going to gain much if any muscle, so if what you meant by gains wont be the leanest was you will gain mostly fat, then I agree with you. no need to get snappy here ace, I wasnt disrespectful to you.

h 3 L L b 0 y
08-20-09, 6:38 pm
Fasting here too.

The body does not go into starvation mode simply because you fast for 16 hours, and your metabolism sure as hell doesn't slow down, and doesn't come to a halt while fasting. Many people on this forum themselves follow intermittent fasting for 16 hours and feed in a 8 hour window. It's perfectly possible to bulk in that. Just get three meals in that much time and you're done. If On Letting Go was around, he'd give you more details about it, but your body won't start eating away at all that muscle.

TigerAce01
08-20-09, 6:44 pm
If you're going to try and bulk while doing a sun up-sun down fast, I would try to do as little as possible while you're fasting. Then, workout at night when you are able to eat.

The reason I say this is because certain hormones in your body will rise due to the stress the fasting puts on your body. This rise in levels will in turn have your body aiming most energy to fat storage once food is introduced. Muscle construction will not be high on the agenda. Bulking while fasting? I'd say probably not. But I see no reason why you wont be able to maintain all of your gains during this time. Its around a month so you should be all set to go.

This is a good post. Well said.

-Ace

h 3 L L b 0 y
08-20-09, 6:52 pm
If you're going to try and bulk while doing a sun up-sun down fast, I would try to do as little as possible while you're fasting. Then, workout at night when you are able to eat.

The reason I say this is because certain hormones in your body will rise due to the stress the fasting puts on your body. This rise in levels will in turn have your body aiming most energy to fat storage once food is introduced. Muscle construction will not be high on the agenda. Bulking while fasting? I'd say probably not. But I see no reason why you wont be able to maintain all of your gains during this time. Its around a month so you should be all set to go.

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to bulk. Breaking the fast with a small meal, then working out, and eating the rest of ones calories post workout until fasting time again.

TigerAce01
08-20-09, 6:55 pm
I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to bulk. Breaking the fast with a small meal, then working out, and eating the rest of ones calories post workout until fasting time again.

We aren't really allowed to discuss it, but this is a religious fast. There is no eating from 4am until 8pm. That's all I'm going to say on that, religion is a big off limits discussion on the FORVM.

-Ace

LegendKillerJosh
08-20-09, 7:17 pm
So having 3,000 calories isn't having 3,000 calories? I believe that would be called a proof in mathematics. If you only need 2,500 for maintenance and you took in 3,000, that would be a calorie excess...there is in no possible way to say any different. Now...if I said "a calorie is a calorie"...then you would be right. But I didn't. I am correct.

And I do believe I said the gains won't be the leanest, meaning you simply reiterated my post into your own words. Read more carefully.

-Ace

There are MANY more factors to what you look like besides calories in/out. Mathematics has nothing to do with it. I have a friend who eats less calories than I do but he weighs 360 pounds and I weigh 215. Just cause you are eating a surplus of calories, if they are not the right calories at the right time, then muscle growth won't happen.

TigerAce01
08-20-09, 7:26 pm
There are MANY more factors to what you look like besides calories in/out. Mathematics has nothing to do with it. I have a friend who eats less calories than I do but he weighs 360 pounds and I weigh 215. Just cause you are eating a surplus of calories, if they are not the right calories at the right time, then muscle growth won't happen.

I know there are many more factors. The OP is going on a fast that is not truly his choice. I would think we'd give him support, and try to give as many reasons how he could possibly get bigger and maintain weight while only eating two meals. I'm trying to be optimistic and support him in his endeavors...no, my thinking is not 100% correct to you guys, and it really isnt...take this analogy...even when someone can't get a PR on bench, and you give it a good tug to get it up...you tell them you didn't even touch the bar...and the next time, he doesn't even need a spot, because in their mind, they already got it. Mind over matter.

-Ace

Muscleguy93
08-20-09, 8:27 pm
I know there are many more factors. The OP is going on a fast that is not truly his choice. I would think we'd give him support, and try to give as many reasons how he could possibly get bigger and maintain weight while only eating two meals. I'm trying to be optimistic and support him in his endeavors...no, my thinking is not 100% correct to you guys, and it really isnt...take this analogy...even when someone can't get a PR on bench, and you give it a good tug to get it up...you tell them you didn't even touch the bar...and the next time, he doesn't even need a spot, because in their mind, they already got it. Mind over matter.

-Ace

thanks man, i appreciate.

Cstlfx
08-20-09, 10:30 pm
I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to bulk. Breaking the fast with a small meal, then working out, and eating the rest of ones calories post workout until fasting time again.

The thing is, you have to ease into it. You cant get a good pre-workout meal in that wont spike insulin levels. When the stress hormones are high, that insulin spike will lead to some fat gain rather than get you ready for a workout.

I'm not saying its not possible to bulk, what I'm saying is that gains will be minimal. Further, it will probably more fat. Like I said though, it'd be minimal.

BUT, its only for around a month, so it shouldnt have many, if any, negative effects. Most of the muscle mass will be kept. Just in my opinion there wont be many gains. The fast would just be as if he was sleeping. However, the OP cant eat all night, like we would during the day. I mean, for a month I could not get two hours sleep, then wake up, eat, and do it again in another two hours, then go the day without food. That would be the way to bulk, but I dont see that being done.

To the OP, do you have a competition coming up? If not, I wouldnt worry about bulking, just completely maintaining all muscle mass you have now. This could be a good thing, cause once you come off of the fast, it might be a shock to your system that can help you grow a bit faster or a little bit of time.

Muscleguy93
08-20-09, 10:54 pm
The thing is, you have to ease into it. You cant get a good pre-workout meal in that wont spike insulin levels. When the stress hormones are high, that insulin spike will lead to some fat gain rather than get you ready for a workout.

I'm not saying its not possible to bulk, what I'm saying is that gains will be minimal. Further, it will probably more fat. Like I said though, it'd be minimal.

BUT, its only for around a month, so it shouldnt have many, if any, negative effects. Most of the muscle mass will be kept. Just in my opinion there wont be many gains. The fast would just be as if he was sleeping. However, the OP cant eat all night, like we would during the day. I mean, for a month I could not get two hours sleep, then wake up, eat, and do it again in another two hours, then go the day without food. That would be the way to bulk, but I dont see that being done.

To the OP, do you have a competition coming up? If not, I wouldnt worry about bulking, just completely maintaining all muscle mass you have now. This could be a good thing, cause once you come off of the fast, it might be a shock to your system that can help you grow a bit faster or a little bit of time.

no man i dont have a comp comming up. thanks for the info bro.

Cstlfx
08-20-09, 11:29 pm
no man i dont have a comp comming up. thanks for the info bro.

No problem! Just remember to take everything with a grain of salt cause heck, I dont know your genetics and I can be 100% wrong!

h 3 L L b 0 y
08-21-09, 1:52 pm
We aren't really allowed to discuss it, but this is a religious fast. There is no eating from 4am until 8pm. That's all I'm going to say on that, religion is a big off limits discussion on the FORVM.

-Ace

I know, I'm Muslim and I'll be fasting too. But I don't see how my question led you to raise that point?

Cstlfx: The whole point of the 16/8 intermittent fasting diet (the one leangains.com promotes and a few animals on here follow) is to eat a small % of cals before the workout, which can be made of complex carbs and will be enough to get you through a workout. Doing it due to religion is because we have to, but some people choose to adopt the lifestyle through the IF routine, and have seen good gains with it. I plan on trying it out for myself too when my fractured hand heals. Surely for some it may not seem to be a good choice, as they'd rather eat throughout the day at 3 hour intervals, but for others it's more convenient to eat in a set window rather than eating six meals a day.

Cstlfx
08-21-09, 2:22 pm
I know, I'm Muslim and I'll be fasting too. But I don't see how my question led you to raise that point?

Cstlfx: The whole point of the 16/8 intermittent fasting diet (the one leangains.com promotes and a few animals on here follow) is to eat a small % of cals before the workout, which can be made of complex carbs and will be enough to get you through a workout. Doing it due to religion is because we have to, but some people choose to adopt the lifestyle through the IF routine, and have seen good gains with it. I plan on trying it out for myself too when my fractured hand heals. Surely for some it may not seem to be a good choice, as they'd rather eat throughout the day at 3 hour intervals, but for others it's more convenient to eat in a set window rather than eating six meals a day.

Hmmm. It'd definitely be interesting to see the kinds of results that happen. As you said it depends on who you are, so like everything in these sports, its all based on a particular person. I'd say my viewpoint is coming from people like myself, where if I have a lot of anything in one sitting a balloon up.

I'll make sure to check in when you start running it. I am curious.

h 3 L L b 0 y
08-21-09, 7:02 pm
Hmmm. It'd definitely be interesting to see the kinds of results that happen. As you said it depends on who you are, so like everything in these sports, its all based on a particular person. I'd say my viewpoint is coming from people like myself, where if I have a lot of anything in one sitting a balloon up.

I'll make sure to check in when you start running it. I am curious.

Was supposed to mention this in my last post but forgot.

'The fast would just be as if he was sleeping. However, the OP cant eat all night, like we would during the day. I mean, for a month I could not get two hours sleep, then wake up, eat, and do it again in another two hours, then go the day without food. That would be the way to bulk, but I dont see that being done.'

From that viewpoint, I understand why you said it would be hard to bulk. Like the IF 16/8 routine, you can eat continuously within those 8 hours, but while Ramadan, it would be impossible to do so when you have to wake up at 6am for work. I see where you're coming from and totally agree.

On a separate point, I think it is possible when those 8 hours are during the day. I'm pretty sure if you have a look in On Letting Go's journal, he is running the same routine at the moment and is having good results with it, but I will certainly start a journal when I being. Who knows, it might not work, but from what I've read, I'm pretty confident.

Muscleguy93
08-21-09, 8:46 pm
im gonna look @ On lets journey.

LegendKillerJosh
08-21-09, 9:21 pm
I know there are many more factors. The OP is going on a fast that is not truly his choice. I would think we'd give him support, and try to give as many reasons how he could possibly get bigger and maintain weight while only eating two meals. I'm trying to be optimistic and support him in his endeavors...no, my thinking is not 100% correct to you guys, and it really isnt...take this analogy...even when someone can't get a PR on bench, and you give it a good tug to get it up...you tell them you didn't even touch the bar...and the next time, he doesn't even need a spot, because in their mind, they already got it. Mind over matter.

-Ace

I'm not trying to rain on his parade. I'm not saying there is something wrong with having to fast. It's part of his personal life, and that's more important than lifting. I'm just being realistic saying it's going to be hard, if not impossible, to add muscle while not eating. Yes, you can will yourself into lifting a weight with the power of the mind, but you can't think yourself into gaining muscle if you aren't eating.

msktyshha
08-27-09, 9:04 pm
its like 6th day of my fast i seem a bit leaner but stil got the same muscles. around 4 im having meal 1 which is a gainer 4eggs 1 scoop whey 1 scoop casein and oatmeal in milk +glutamine. at 8 i break my fast with meat or poultry with brown rice. meal 3 is at 9 same as meal 2 then meal 4 is at 10 1 scoop whey 1 scoop casein in milk and meal 5 before bed like around 11:30 which is 1 scoop casein in milk. Iam training only once a week. i train chest shoulders n tris 2gthr 1st week and next week i'll train back n bis den 3rd i'll do the same as week 1. Following a powerlifting workout 1-5 reps for 4 sets with heavy weights my heaviest possible. cause of this i wont lose my strength and my body will force itself to maintain muscle.

msktyshha
08-27-09, 9:05 pm
1st day of fast was a bit tough and i was feeling kinda catabolized but i think my body adapted and i no longer feel hungry throughtout the day just a little thursty. and iam supplementing myself with glutamine which i think has a huge role in maintaining muscle

MojoMike36
08-30-09, 5:45 pm
Sounds like an awful idea to bulk whilst fasting. During my 1st bulk I found I gained much less fat when I timed my meals out and eat superbly consistent. The ups and downs of fasting are probably going to just increase fat storage due to the inconsistency of your diet.

LegendKillerJosh
08-30-09, 7:37 pm
its like 6th day of my fast i seem a bit leaner but stil got the same muscles. around 4 im having meal 1 which is a gainer 4eggs 1 scoop whey 1 scoop casein and oatmeal in milk +glutamine. at 8 i break my fast with meat or poultry with brown rice. meal 3 is at 9 same as meal 2 then meal 4 is at 10 1 scoop whey 1 scoop casein in milk and meal 5 before bed like around 11:30 which is 1 scoop casein in milk. Iam training only once a week. i train chest shoulders n tris 2gthr 1st week and next week i'll train back n bis den 3rd i'll do the same as week 1. Following a powerlifting workout 1-5 reps for 4 sets with heavy weights my heaviest possible. cause of this i wont lose my strength and my body will force itself to maintain muscle.

With this plan I could definitely see you making gains. The fasting is probably rough on the body, but if you get in enough calories after your workout, which it appears you are, until the fast begins again, you should be ok. Also, are you sleeping during most of the 18 hour fast? because that would help big time. If you could take in a small meal, workout, and eat a lot during your 4 hour window before bed time, you definitely could make gains. That is a cool plan glad your fast is going well.