View Full Version : Seriously Lagging Delts...when To Train Them??
Hey guys...my shoulders seriously lag behind everything else...i need to do something to bring them up as they are making me look awfuly narrow...i was thinking of cutting shoulders off of their own day and hitting them up with arms..
chest/calves
back/traps
SHOULDERS/arms
quads/hams
Im thinking this might work since i have tried the high volume approach before doing 15+ sets and have also done low volume on their own day just doing 8-10 sets and have seen NO changes except becoming over trained...i am thinking that since the front delts get crushed on chest day and the rear delts get hit hard on back day, that maybe doing some low volume presses and side laterals before/after arms might be the trick.......maybe they are getting hit too often and not growing? not sure. but this is what i think i might do...
What do you guys recommend?
theharjmann
08-25-09, 4:02 am
if shoudlers are lagging:
1) They need their own day
2) DO NOT OVERTRAIN THEM
3) Eat and rest well for growth
4) Train hard
5) Leave enough days between training delts, chest and back to allow delts to recover.
Personally, if it were me i would do this...some people may not respond to this however so you may need to act differently:
DAY 1
Back, biceps
DAY 2
Chest, Triceps
DAY 3
Rest
DAY 4
Legs
DAY 5
Rest
DAY 6
Delts and small amount of traps
DAY 7
Rest
Now, when you train delts, you need to incorporate heavy, compound movements. There are so many guys who think their delts will grow through doing millions of lateral raises....bullshit.....you need to press HEAVY
Something like this maybe
On youtube, search "Mariusz Pudzianowski shoulder training" and select the first video....do that workout, obviously without that kind of weight, but the same sort of rep ranges. FOllow it up with 3 sets of bent over lateral raises for rear delts and 3-5 sets of shrugs. THEN STOP. Get your sugar and protein in immediately after you drop the weight after the last set. Then go home and eat more.
[Note: i cant send you the direct link for the video becauxse im at work and youtube is blocked!]
Change it up each week, bringing the bar to the front, to the rear, standing, seated etc.
good luck
Another thing you could also try doing is training shoulders/delts at the start of the week as your first workout as you have the most energy and focus on this day
JAY
if shoudlers are lagging:
1) They need their own day
2) DO NOT OVERTRAIN THEM
3) Eat and rest well for growth
4) Train hard
5) Leave enough days between training delts, chest and back to allow delts to recover.
Personally, if it were me i would do this...some people may not respond to this however so you may need to act differently:
DAY 1
Back, biceps
DAY 2
Chest, Triceps
DAY 3
Rest
DAY 4
Legs
DAY 5
Rest
DAY 6
Delts and small amount of traps
DAY 7
Rest
Now, when you train delts, you need to incorporate heavy, compound movements. There are so many guys who think their delts will grow through doing millions of lateral raises....bullshit.....you need to press HEAVY
Something like this maybe
On youtube, search "Mariusz Pudzianowski shoulder training" and select the first video....do that workout, obviously without that kind of weight, but the same sort of rep ranges. FOllow it up with 3 sets of bent over lateral raises for rear delts and 3-5 sets of shrugs. THEN STOP. Get your sugar and protein in immediately after you drop the weight after the last set. Then go home and eat more.
[Note: i cant send you the direct link for the video becauxse im at work and youtube is blocked!]
Change it up each week, bringing the bar to the front, to the rear, standing, seated etc.
good luck
Here is the video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZc6J89b1-E
So you think i should do delts on their own day and incorporate 2 presses...1 side lateral and 1 rear delt movement?
I've always been under the impression that width comes from beefing up the side delts..but i suppose if the SIZE isnt there then bigger side delts wont do shit..
How about..
Seated bb press
Seated db press
db side laterals
incline rear laterals
bb shrugs
And i will make sure i am hitting delts after a rest day..
Another thing you could also try doing is training shoulders/delts at the start of the week as your first workout as you have the most energy and focus on this day
JAY
I dont have a typical once a week split..i do a 3 on 1 off and each body part gets hit after a rest day as the rotation keeps going..sometimes chest is after a rest day, sometimes arms...sometimes legs...changes all the time.
Firefist
08-25-09, 2:20 pm
something the house had me doing....
add more sets of lateral raises, and even do them first, though most people do presses first. I have been doing 6-8 sets of them now and have been doin this for more than a month and it has REALLY been showing. Something else that worked well for me in the past was giant setting ALL of my exercises. Cut the workout time by 15 minutes, pump was sick, and i grew. definitely try those lateral raises though....
theharjmann
08-25-09, 4:12 pm
Here is the video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZc6J89b1-E
So you think i should do delts on their own day and incorporate 2 presses...1 side lateral and 1 rear delt movement?
I've always been under the impression that width comes from beefing up the side delts..but i suppose if the SIZE isnt there then bigger side delts wont do shit..
How about..
Seated bb press
Seated db press
db side laterals
incline rear laterals
bb shrugs
And i will make sure i am hitting delts after a rest day..
bro, if you do those 2 pressing exercises with enough intensity you wont need to do the dumbell side laterals...you wont have the energy....trust me! just move srtraight to rear delts and traps.
remember u wanna build MASS...you do that from doing heavy compound movements....side laterals are more of a refining exercise that you do leading up to a show. theres nothing wrong with doing side laterals...but make sure u cover your bases first with HEAVY pressing. do u think ronnie coleman, mariusz pudzianowski and co got delts like that from lateral raises?
no...they got em from shifting heavy fucking weight above their head.
bro, if you do those 2 pressing exercises with enough intensity you wont need to do the dumbell side laterals...you wont have the energy....trust me! just move srtraight to rear delts and traps.
remember u wanna build MASS...you do that from doing heavy compound movements....side laterals are more of a refining exercise that you do leading up to a show. theres nothing wrong with doing side laterals...but make sure u cover your bases first with HEAVY pressing. do u think ronnie coleman, mariusz pudzianowski and co got delts like that from lateral raises?
no...they got em from shifting heavy fucking weight above their head.
Thats very true...but mariusz was doing sets of triples and doubles...ronnie does press 275-315 for 10-12 reps but in the unbelievable he does 3 triple drop sets of side laterals equaling 9 quick sets of laterals and in relentless he does dumbbell side laterals and then machine laterals, so he definitly does his share of laterals..
theharjmann
08-25-09, 4:39 pm
Thats very true...but mariusz was doing sets of triples and doubles...ronnie does press 275-315 for 10-12 reps but in the unbelievable he does 3 triple drop sets of side laterals equaling 9 quick sets of laterals and in relentless he does dumbbell side laterals and then machine laterals, so he definitly does his share of laterals..
yeah for sure he does laterals....but im sure if u ask him hell say his size is due to compound lifts.
my trainign partner went to a jay cutler seminar and reported that jay said "to grow, the best thing to do is train with a bar and plates." he also said that he eats 16,000 calories a day. SIXTEEN THOUSAND! and that is from his mouth, not from the magazines or the internet.
my point is that you need to lift heavy and eat lots.
good luck
ironshaolin
08-25-09, 9:04 pm
what are your stats? if you aren't pressing close to your bodyweight, side laterals probably aren't going to do too much for you. I forget who said it, but isolation excersises are like carving excersises. But if you don't have any meat to carve, they're useless. If you want bigger shoulders, focus on bringing your overhead press up at LEAST 50lbs. When it gets there, your shoulders will be bigger, I promise. But wait until you have the extra 50lbs in the overhead press before you pass judgement.
what are your stats? if you aren't pressing close to your bodyweight, side laterals probably aren't going to do too much for you. I forget who said it, but isolation excersises are like carving excersises. But if you don't have any meat to carve, they're useless. If you want bigger shoulders, focus on bringing your overhead press up at LEAST 50lbs. When it gets there, your shoulders will be bigger, I promise. But wait until you have the extra 50lbs in the overhead press before you pass judgement.
oh im definitely not saying he is wrong...i have shoulders tomorrow actually and im prioritizing doing 2 pressing movements, hitting the rear delts, and finishing off with some laterals...im not taking them out completely, but i am taking into consideration that the pressing will bring the size.
I am 6-1', 216lbs, 16%bf
My seated overhead barbell press is only 135 for about 3.
theharjmann
08-26-09, 10:16 am
oh im definitely not saying he is wrong...i have shoulders tomorrow actually and im prioritizing doing 2 pressing movements, hitting the rear delts, and finishing off with some laterals...im not taking them out completely, but i am taking into consideration that the pressing will bring the size.
I am 6-1', 216lbs, 16%bf
My seated overhead barbell press is only 135 for about 3.
yeah bro
u need to press press press
good luck
and remember to eat!
Pudzianowski is unbelievable. And I don't think I've ever seen anyone press with that form...
theharjmann
08-26-09, 11:39 am
Pudzianowski is unbelievable. And I don't think I've ever seen anyone press with that form...
i now press with that form. so do all other strongmen
i now press with that form. so do all other strongmen
What the advantage?
theharjmann
08-26-09, 11:54 am
What the advantage?
you can lift heavy weight
lifting heavy weight and eating lots results in big muscles