View Full Version : Bodybuilding Myths
Wasteland
09-02-09, 1:22 pm
Psychologists talk about something called the "illusory correlation". Simply put, this is when we see relationships or links between things even when they don't exist (for example, think of stereotypes). Once we start believing in those links, they often become the truth in our minds, even though those links aren't true at all. Often, these "truths" serve a purpose--to bolster beliefs we already have, be they political, social or otherwise.
In other words, what we believe as true may be nothing more than what we want to believe is true. The illusory correlation then, it seems to me, helps us order the world and even define ourselves. I think this is why it's so hard for us to let go of beliefs that we may have because those beliefs are intricately tied up to our identities, both internally and externally. Can you imagine how hard it was for people to stop believing the earth was flat or that the sun didn't revolve around the earth?
Here, in this forum and others, I see the illusory correlation at work everyday--in the debates and arguments about this or that approach. As bodybuilders and lifters, we subscribe to certain ways of thinking or theories based on imagined connections. Even when training or nutritional myths are debunked, we still cling to them as if to a life preserver. What popular myths do you know have been debunked yet it seems like those around you still believe in? Things like vitamin C cures colds.
On Letting Go
09-02-09, 1:35 pm
Great thread.
-Meal timing (eat every two hours or you'll become catabolic)
-No carbs before bed
-Pro+Fat / Pro+Cho meals only
-Insulin spike/High GI post-workout carbs
I'm done with neurotic tendencies and worrying about the minutiae. All these myths can die.
OnLettingGo
Wasteland
09-02-09, 1:43 pm
Great thread.
-Meal timing (eat every two hours or you'll become catabolic)
-No carbs before bed
-Pro+Fat / Pro+Cho meals only
-Insulin spike/High GI post-workout carbs
I'm done with neurotic tendencies and worrying about the minutiae. All these myths can die.
OnLettingGo
Thanks. What never fails to surprise me is how passionate some people are about their beliefs and how right they believe they are. People, I don't believe, can ever be truly objective. But most believe they are. As a result, they argue over beliefs and opinions which often masquerade as facts.
Myth: Eating sugar causes you to be hyperactive
At the end of the day, I think what we can do is work to gather all of the information that is out there on these various topics and try to separate fact from fiction. We all bring our biases to the table in some way, however, as one becomes more educated in the field, we often find that the best way is to try out different methods to see what gets you the best results in the end. Some people, of course, will be more perceptive than others in seeing what works best.
Overall though, I think you are right--"illusory correlation" takes place w/ all types of individuals, from our politicians, teachers, "experts", right on down to children. I think it's often used to justify the way we feel about things as most don't have the time to research every subject/belief out there.
G Diesel
09-02-09, 1:54 pm
I like to believe in some myths, because often I feel that too many of the debunkers live in the lab...
Glutamine for recovery, Vitamin C for immunity, ZMA to promote deeper sleep. All debunked, yet all seem valid to some extent in my world.
Ab training for a tighter waist (even spot reduction), high reps improving conditioning , heavy flat bench for a big chest. All debunked, but all seem to work somewhat for me.
There are many old wives' tales out there that have gained much traction over the years, but often, I think it may be best to debunk myths for yourself.
Peace, G
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 2:03 pm
I like to believe in some myths, because often I feel that too many of the debunkers live in the lab...
Glutamine for recovery, Vitamin C for immunity, ZMA to promote deeper sleep. All debunked, yet all seem valid to some extent in my world.
Ab training for a tighter waist (even spot reduction), high reps improving conditioning , heavy flat bench for a big chest. All debunked, but all seem to work somewhat for me.
There are many old wives' tales out there that have gained much traction over the years, but often, I think it may be best to debunk myths for yourself.
Peace, G
What works for one person, might not work for the other.
Ever since I have been supplementing 1-3 grams of Vit C a day (depends if it's a two a day or not), I have been truly sick one time in 4 years.
Glutamine enhances my recovery, but gives me the runs. I knew an amateur back at college that took 30 grams a day and it massively enhanced his appetite, but did not do much for his recovery.
ZMA made me sleep unconsciously, but it made me break out around my chin.
Stereotypes and myths exist for a reason, because most of the time they are true.
Like other posts before mine, you have to debunk the myths and see what works for you.
Wasteland
09-02-09, 2:06 pm
What works for one person, might not work for the other.
Some things yes, other things no.
Regarding being sick, are you absolutely sure it's the vitamin C? Absolutely, positively sure? And are you absolutely sure you've never been sick? Or is this another case of the illusory correlation?
krazyassmexican
09-02-09, 2:08 pm
a no carb diet will make you loss muscle
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 2:18 pm
Some things yes, other things no.
Regarding being sick, are you absolutely sure it's the vitamin C? Absolutely, positively sure? And are you absolutely sure you've never been sick? Or is this another case of the illusory correlation?
It could be a number of things, including a clean diet. But, once I started taking in large quantities of vit C, barely a sniffle. Everything you take all works in synergy to give you an even more enhanced effect. That is why so many companies recommend stacking their products.
My point is everything I was doing was working, but once I added the vit C, barely a sniffle.
A theory such as illusory correlation is very general and is based on unproven hypotheses, nothing conclusive. Just because something sounds good, doesn't make it so. My experience is based on trial and error, not something I cooked up in my psyche.
Wasteland
09-02-09, 2:20 pm
It could be a number of things, including a clean diet. But, once I started taking in large quantities of vit C, barely a sniffle. Everything you take all works in synergy to give you an even more enhanced effect. That is why so many companies recommend stacking their products.
My point is everything I was doing was working, but once I added the vit C, barely a sniffle.
A theory such as illusory correlation is very general and is based on unproven hypotheses, nothing conclusive. Just because something sounds good, doesn't make it so. My experience is based on trial and error, not something I cooked up in my psyche.
What you're saying could precisely be a case for illusory correlation, PanterA. I'm not saying you're psyche cooked this up, not at all.
I like to believe in some myths, because often I feel that too many of the debunkers live in the lab...
Glutamine for recovery, Vitamin C for immunity, ZMA to promote deeper sleep. All debunked, yet all seem valid to some extent in my world.
Ab training for a tighter waist (even spot reduction), high reps improving conditioning , heavy flat bench for a big chest. All debunked, but all seem to work somewhat for me.
There are many old wives' tales out there that have gained much traction over the years, but often, I think it may be best to debunk myths for yourself.
Peace, G
GREAT POST! I agree with this very much. It's like PanterA said, people are different, these scientists make blanket statements that absolutely cannot be true to the ENTIRE public.
I for one an sure that ZMA promotes a deeper sleep. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant, adn when Im taking ZMA I never wake up in the middle of the night, not even to piss. I actually did a trial and ran 2 bottles on, then the same period off. The difference was extremely noticable, especially in the weight room. (and G, are you sure that has been "dubunked"- I've read scientific articles that prove it does provide a deeper sleep, different topic just curious)
One that I've heard that I call bullshit on is that your body can only take in about 20-30g protein at one sitting, and the rest is "wasted"
belladiabla13
09-02-09, 3:20 pm
What works for one person, might not work for the other.
Ever since I have been supplementing 1-3 grams of Vit C a day (depends if it's a two a day or not), I have been truly sick one time in 4 years.
Glutamine enhances my recovery, but gives me the runs. I knew an amateur back at college that took 30 grams a day and it massively enhanced his appetite, but did not do much for his recovery.
ZMA made me sleep unconsciously, but it made me break out around my chin.
Stereotypes and myths exist for a reason, because most of the time they are true.
Like other posts before mine, you have to debunk the myths and see what works for you.
I totally agree with u. You have to gather all the information that is out there and try stuff for yourself. All of our bodies and needs are different. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!
PORTERHOUSE
09-02-09, 3:25 pm
so what is the truth then?
LittleMan55
09-02-09, 3:34 pm
so what is the truth then?
Hard work, Dedication, and Consistency are the only ways to succeed in this sport.
Aggression
09-02-09, 3:58 pm
I for one an sure that ZMA promotes a deeper sleep. Magnesium is a muscle relaxant, adn when Im taking ZMA I never wake up in the middle of the night, not even to piss.
I totally agree with this here. Before taking ZMA, I'd wake up every single night just to piss, always around 3am. Ever since taking it, without ANY change to my water intake, I now sleep through the whole night, which is great.
Wasteland
09-02-09, 4:38 pm
Hard work, Dedication, and Consistency are the only ways to succeed in this sport.
There's the truth.
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 4:38 pm
What you're saying could precisely be a case for illusory correlation, PanterA. I'm not saying you're psyche cooked this up, not at all.
Illusory correlation is too broad. You could claim that love, hope, faith and many other things fall under illusory correlation.
I understand your original point about self induced beliefs can blind people to further understand something else, but when it comes to nutrition/supplementation, there is too much proof for most of it to be illusory correlation.
Psychological theories are based on people's behaviors. For me supplementation/nutrition falls under life experience/trial and error. That in it of itself, to me, cannot be classified as illusory correlation.
There really isn't a deeper understanding (I wish there was I think deeper than most), it's simply what works for each person. In this case, it just is what it is.
You know what I mean?
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 4:38 pm
I agree Waste
Wasteland
09-02-09, 4:43 pm
Illusory correlation is too broad. You could claim that love, hope, faith and many other things fall under illusory correlation.
I understand your original point about self induced beliefs can blind people to further understand something else, but when it comes to nutrition/supplementation, there is too much proof for most of it to be illusory correlation.
Psychological theories are based on people's behaviors. For me supplementation/nutrition falls under life experience/trial and error. That in it of itself, to me, cannot be classified as illusory correlation.
There really isn't a deeper understanding (I wish there was I think deeper than most), it's simply what works for each person. In this case, it just is what it is.
You know what I mean?
I'm not sure the psychological concept would apply to broad categories like love and hope for example. I think you might misunderstand what the illusory correlation is about. Going back to your "love" reference, the illusory correlation might cause us to believe that "true love" exists because you saw some friends fall in love or because we are being bombarded by this message of romantic, transcendental love in all forms of media (e.g., movies, books, etc.). As a result, maybe we'd see a link between love and that one right person (monogamy) even though the link may be non-existent. See what I mean?
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 4:48 pm
Hard work, Dedication, and Consistency are the only ways to succeed in this sport.
I definately understand but like I said, in the light the concept is understood anything could fall under it.
We are going way too deep into it!
The above quote satisfies my curiosity! Haha!
Altered Beast
09-02-09, 4:50 pm
That is precisely why I love bodybuilding, it's just that damn simple!
You are giving into to the purity of your primal essence. I find it absolutely beautiful!
Mr. Aestheticz
09-02-09, 4:51 pm
The Myth That You Need At Least 1g Or More Of Protein In Order To Grow, Be Stronger, Etc.
And That You Need Protein Every Two To Three Hours
false
I Actually Take In 0.8g Of Protein Per Lb Of Bw And Eat 4 Official Meals Which Equals A Total Of 190g Of Protein A Day And Have Protein Every 4 Hours
I Am Still Very Much Strong And Stronger In Some Areas I Normally Wasn't And Am Still Growing!
There Is More To It And Reasoning But My Diet Now After Discovering This And Switching To This Style Of Diet I Have Dropped Significant Bf% And Pack On Some Serious Lean Mass And Once Again Am Getting Stronger And Stronger!
man I Can See Exactly Where This Thread Is Going Lmao....break Out The Popcorn Lmao!!!
...easy!!
Beach91
09-03-09, 11:31 am
Amen to that post Mr. A. OVer the past year i have read a tonne of Layne Nortons threads and actually follow this method, taking in about .9 gram. protein per lb. bodyweight and eat every 4 to 5 hours.
Every 2.5 hrs in between i take in 5 grams of BCAAS which i count towards my protein totals, and its actually kept me fairly lean, while allowing me to increase my carb intake at those meals, and become stronger.
Its weird though and i hesitate to put it out there though cause most seem to subscribe to more is better and u can never get enough protein.
Mr. Aestheticz
09-03-09, 12:33 pm
Amen to that post Mr. A. OVer the past year i have read a tonne of Layne Nortons threads and actually follow this method, taking in about .9 gram. protein per lb. bodyweight and eat every 4 to 5 hours.
Every 2.5 hrs in between i take in 5 grams of BCAAS which i count towards my protein totals, and its actually kept me fairly lean, while allowing me to increase my carb intake at those meals, and become stronger.
Its weird though and i hesitate to put it out there though cause most seem to subscribe to more is better and u can never get enough protein.
YOU CANT LET ALL THE SECRETS OUT MY MAN LMAO LMAO LMAO!
CHECK OUT MY JOURNEY WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE AND YOU WILL SEE MY DIET AND TRAINING STYLE YOU WILL HAVE TO LIGHTLY SKIM THROUGH LOL!
...EASY!!!
My weight training teacher in high school said that DB curling without the thumb develops the peak. Of course the whole peak thing in general is said to be a myth, but there's a huge thread on that already.
Wasteland
09-04-09, 4:05 pm
My weight training teacher in high school said that DB curling without the thumb develops the peak. Of course the whole peak thing in general is said to be a myth, but there's a huge thread on that already.
Here's a thread on the bicep peak: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=11905
One on chest myths: http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=1588
So if everything can essentially be debunked, what then can we believe? If the basis of bodybuilding is dedication and consistency, how then do we know what to be dedicated to? High reps/low reps/frequency, protein amounts, macro breakdown etc. They vary for each person so is there truly anything set in stone?
Wasteland
09-10-09, 11:50 am
So if everything can essentially be debunked, what then can we believe? If the basis of bodybuilding is dedication and consistency, how then do we know what to be dedicated to? High reps/low reps/frequency, protein amounts, macro breakdown etc. They vary for each person so is there truly anything set in stone?
Sure, there are some things that are set in stone.
Aggression
10-07-09, 8:59 am
I came across this video about a year ago. Although this guy gets a bad rap in mainstream media, he knows his shit when it comes to bodybuilding. For all you dudes starting out, or for anyone who thinks copying a routine from a magazine will help you grow, this is a video that may change your perspective. Listen to this dude. As controversial as he is, you can't deny the fact that everything in this video makes perfect sense.
I posted it up in my journey the other day and it was followed a number of positive remarks. So for everyone else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvitFh8A0zI
BryanSmash!
10-07-09, 9:29 am
"Love your rear delt as much as your bicep."
Good advice there.
C.Coronato
10-07-09, 11:21 am
Good looks. He is a normal guy, paid to be crazy, which is pulls off well.
Gotta appreciate someone who speaks from the heart and speaks honestly.
Aggression
10-07-09, 2:58 pm
I was much like the people he's talking about in this clip. I remember when I bought my first DVD. It was Cutlers and I watched the whole thing. Then me and my college roommate at the time went to the gym to hit back, mimicking Cutler's workout, set by set. I was definitely beat up by the end of the workout. I did this more than a few times with DVDs, diets written in magazines, and other shit. With the bench press, I always hated it. I never felt great doing it. But, as Valentino states, people think they 'have' to do it.
I love how Valentino always seeks so genuinely. He definitely has the knowledge to back up all his claims, and the gym time experience. To the post above, I don't like benching either, and I feel dips hit me way harder, so I don't bother with it much.
sideburnz
10-08-09, 12:36 pm
I was slowly losing my motivation . This vid really rejuvenated it! thanks bro for uploading this. So much sense made in 10mins.
I liked it till he commented on personal trainers...
Valentino is hated by many
he is smart, funny and honest. I love the guy regardless of what he did to himself since that is his choice. I think he is great!
"Yeah every time I see a fat kid in the gym, he says he is powerlifitng, I watch him, he can't do his own body weight clean...getting his fat ass out of bed is..Powerlifting"
If you REALLY listen this is a valuable source of information!
Aggression
10-08-09, 4:21 pm
"Yeah every time I see a fat kid in the gym, he says he is powerlifitng, I watch him, he can't do his own body weight clean...getting his fat ass out of bed is..Powerlifting"
If you REALLY listen this is a valuable source of information!
I laughed out loud when I first heard that line. There's a few dudes in my gym that this line applies to.
Definitely a valuable video for anyone to watch.
"Yeah every time I see a fat kid in the gym, he says he is powerlifitng, I watch him, he can't do his own body weight clean...getting his fat ass out of bed is..Powerlifting"
If you REALLY listen this is a valuable source of information!
That line had me cracking up.
strivin for more
10-08-09, 8:00 pm
a lot of media anything i see with valentino always portrays him as a pig, cheater, etc. (i saw an interview with him stuffing his face with food while talk, and while he was in the news for roids) but its nice to find just a plain interview. thanks.
sunny_max
10-08-09, 11:28 pm
not all people take the time to give out genuine information like that and speak froim their heart...good words their......good motivation...and a lot of truth!!!!!
Joseph V
10-10-09, 7:24 pm
this guy is really true on what he says..as for my philosophythere is no right or wrong way in bodybuilding because everybody is deifferent ( this is in other words of greg valentino)...
if you take roids or not, its the same thing..just a sychological factor
i mean if you want more explanation ill remind you guys of arnold swhartznegger,..he always pictured his biceps as moutain peaks on top of mountain peaks every set, that your building a moutain in a metaphorical way..
every body has there own pshycological way of tricking there body to grow
the guy says alot of true stuff. cant lie there. jw tho why you never see him flex/show off his legs, probably because they are nowhere near his upper body but idk. Also he preaches you have to love everybody part yet his forearms are no bigger than mine...
TigerAce01
10-12-09, 6:06 pm
And this is why I put a middle finger up to anyone that says my routine is "not good" or "won't result in muscle hypertophy". I know myself, through and through. All those kids in high school who could bench more than me, I always brushed them off.. I took longer to build up my strength, but that's because I asked the hard questions, experimented, and learned...now I'm better than 99% of all those pricks.
Gotta love Valentino.
-Ace
LegendKillerJosh
10-13-09, 11:30 am
Love this video, good find. Listen to him.
I laughed out loud when I first heard that line. There's a few dudes in my gym that this line applies to.
Definitely a valuable video for anyone to watch.
Haha definitely agreed. Great video... Greg is definitely a funny dude... I always laugh reading his Ramblin section in MD as well...
craig028
11-09-09, 10:11 pm
hahha love the part where he talks about the videos and hes like o my god barbell curls work biceps o bleep i have a wealth of knowledge know i started laughing so hard
he really knows his shit and loves doing what he does
msktyshha
11-09-09, 10:37 pm
love him but he's way too vulgar!!! i mean i fukn curse but fuk i dont fukn curse as fukn much as he fukn curses ohhhh fuckkk!!!
I never watched this whole video when it was first posted, but I just did and it's very good. He really drives home the point that you have to figure out what works for you.
NaturalTrainee
01-04-10, 8:12 am
Well, I've been repeatedly seeing posts and made regarding the views presented by pros. The logic process followed in this instance is usually the following: The pros have more muscle on the planet, therefore they posses the bigest knowledge.
This is probably the biggest mistake done by the ambitious 19 year-old beginner and in many cases, by more experienced athlets. The reasons for my frustration on this matter are the following:
1) The professional bodybuilding is a shady and corrupt world. Everything required to become bigger, this means.
2) Those people are usually extremely genetically gifted, so they grow no matter how irrational their methods they use are. In other terms, everything works and they have great recovery abilities unapproachable by the average human.
3) Their already great potential is further extended due to the usage of steroids and anabolic drugs as a part of their programs. Recent researches suggest they can enhance a person's capability by 66%?! Those guys have used more drugs than a small hospital. Most of them have payed the price for it, though.
To sum up, the unorthodox techniques used by the buff guy in the gym or Ronnie Coleman shouldn't concern you as they will most probably prove unproductive for the 99% of this planet's population.
I will post more myths. Hope some users will aid me with their myths about this covered with mud sport.
The_Legacy
01-04-10, 4:24 pm
Yeah, i never buy into new training methods, hype of other supplements etc. i know what works for me and i stick with it.
smith06
01-04-10, 11:11 pm
I would love to hang out with Greg. What a no-nonsense, no-bullshit kinda guy.
DA GOVNA
01-04-10, 11:30 pm
Psychologists talk about something called the "illusory correlation". Simply put, this is when we see relationships or links between things even when they don't exist (for example, think of stereotypes). Once we start believing in those links, they often become the truth in our minds, even though those links aren't true at all. Often, these "truths" serve a purpose--to bolster beliefs we already have, be they political, social or otherwise.
In other words, what we believe as true may be nothing more than what we want to believe is true. The illusory correlation then, it seems to me, helps us order the world and even define ourselves. I think this is why it's so hard for us to let go of beliefs that we may have because those beliefs are intricately tied up to our identities, both internally and externally. Can you imagine how hard it was for people to stop believing the earth was flat or that the sun didn't revolve around the earth?
Here, in this forum and others, I see the illusory correlation at work everyday--in the debates and arguments about this or that approach. As bodybuilders and lifters, we subscribe to certain ways of thinking or theories based on imagined connections. Even when training or nutritional myths are debunked, we still cling to them as if to a life preserver. What popular myths do you know have been debunked yet it seems like those around you still believe in? Things like vitamin C cures colds.
Very interesting but stereotypes ARE true, thats why people notice them.
trissynashville
01-04-10, 11:49 pm
If I were to give any advice to a newcomer to the sport, it would be to take no information for granted. Assume everything you hear is a possible myth, figure everything out on your own. Because, as previously stated, what may work for one may not work for another. I've found some "myths" to be just that, and completely void of any truth, and some to be facts.
One "myth," (if you could even call it that...), especially around my area, is that you HAVE to take a pre-workout stim of some sort or your workout is worthless, and that said stim is the most vital part of your supplement collection. The guys around here take a double dosage of said stim with a 5 hour energy followed by a few cups of coffee before every workout... I just crank up some Pantera on the old iPod when I step into the gym and hit it as hard as anyone else in there.
HOCKEY TEMPER
01-05-10, 12:55 am
That Valentino video is awesome. He hit's the nail on the head talking about these clowns who load up a squat bar with 10 plates and bend 5 degrees. Hilarious, but so true.
HOCKEY TEMPER
01-05-10, 1:01 am
One of the bigger misconceptions is the high reps vs. low reps bullshit. All these guy's who say "high reps are for getting lean and low reps are for getting big".
That shit is diet. Most bodybuilders train the same way with the same intensity year around. It's the diet that changes pre-contest vs. off-season. You'll see Ronnie doing sets of 3 on the deadlift 4 weeks out. At the same time you'll see Kai Greene in the off-season doing 40 rep leg extensions. Is he trying to "get lean". NO. He's trying to build muscle and grow.
Everyone is different, but when I am doing 15 reps on the bench press and some idiot asks me if I'm trying to get lean I just want to slap him. I'm trying to put blood in my chest, and grow the muscle. You idiot.
I would love to hang out with Greg. What a no-nonsense, no-bullshit kinda guy.
He lied about what exactly he was putting in his arms, and he made his living being a circus freakshow with a drug habit. While I liked his cartoonish arms (and to some extent, his interviews detailing his lifestyle), I don't think he's a no-nonsense, no bullshit guy for those reasons.