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Dedicated
09-09-09, 4:00 pm
I need some advice.

I've wanted to play college football my entire life. I'm a junior at a D1 school. I blew out my shoulder 4 months before my freshman year. My sophomore year I had multiple injuries that kept me from lifting heavy off and on. Now as a junior, I know that next fall is my last chance. Problem is that for the past month I've had pain in my right knee flaring up (it started on a light set of squats). It haven't been able to squat since then. It doesn't normally bother me during my day to day activities except for maybe climbing stairs, but I have severe pain playing flag football or tennis. Going to the doctor is not really an option at the moment.

I guess what my question is what type of training would you recommend during this time that I need to stay away from anything that's going to put stress on that knee. I was originally planning on West Side for Skinny Bastards III, but it's nearly pointless with no Max Effort leg work. It's make or break time for me. I have until the end of this semester to get into playing shape to be ready for the spring. I'm currently 6'1" 205 with a PR's of 325 and 425 on bench and squat. 4.9 (I know it's always been my downfall) 40 and a 28 inch vertical.

Obviously I'd like to get as big and strong as possible. Reasonable Goals for the end of January are around ~350 on bench and who knows on squat because of this knee. I'd like to be around 220 and maintain my speed.

I'll take any advice or encouragement I can get brothers.

shizz702
09-09-09, 7:09 pm
Are you sure you can't squat? Maybe it's a form issue?

Have you tried squatting with knee wraps?

If you can't squat then your next best option will be the leg press for your legs, and the main exercise you'll want to work will be the deadlift, since that next to the squat works the most musculature and will get you bigger and stronger faster than anything else.

Since power and bulk are your goals you'll want to go with a basic strength program and work on your football training inbetween.

Work your power cleans hard too, they will help your vertical and athleticism.

In my opinion the 5x5 is the best program for any kind of sport training: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5#The_Bill_Starr_Power_Routine

Of course it would be best if you can do the squats, but if you can't do the squats I suppose you could replace them with leg presses.

I think you should try the squats with your knees wrapped, hopefully that alleviates the pain.

Ir0nClad
09-09-09, 8:13 pm
Read this on how to rehab yourself, and you will be able to play football again.




"Here is the tried-and-true injury rehab method for muscle-belly injuries we got from Starr and that has worked for years better than any other method I've ever used. It also works well on orthopeadic injuries in general, and should be tried before anything more elaborate is used. Wait 3-4 days until the pain starts to "blur",which indicates that the immediate process of healing has stopped the bleeding and has started to repair the tissue. Then use an exercise that directly works the injury, i.e. that makes it hurt, in this case the squat. Use the empty bar and do 3 sets of 25 with perfect form, allowing yourself NO favoring the injured side. If it's ready to rehab you will know by the pain: if the pain increases during the set, it's not ready, if it stays the same or feels a little better toward the end of the set, it is ready to work.

The NEXT DAY do it again, and add a small amount of weight, like 45 x 25 x 2 , 55 x 25. Next day, 45 x 25, 55 x 25, 65 x 25. Continue adding weight every day, increasing as much as you can tolerate each workout. It will hurt, and it's supposed to hurt, but you should be able to tell the difference between rehab pain and re-injury. If you can't, you will figure it out soon enough. This method works by flushing blood through the injury while forcing the tissue to reorganize in its normal pattern of contractile architecture.

After 10 days of 25s, go up in weight and down in reps to 15s, then to 10s, and finally to fives. During this time do NO OTHER HEAVY WORK, so that your resources can focus on the injury. You should be fixed in about 2 weeks, squatting more than you hurt yourself with.

This method has the advantage of preventing scar formation in the muscle belly, since the muscle is forced to heal in the context of work and normal contraction, using the movement pattern it normally uses. The important points are 1.) perfect form with 2.) light weights that can be handled for high reps, 3.) every day for two weeks, and 4.) no other heavy work that will interfere with the system-wide processes of healing the tear.

It is also very important through the whole process of healing the injury that ice be used, during the initial phase after the injury and after the workouts. Use it 20 on/20 off, many times a day at first and then tapering off to morning, after the workout, and before bed. Ice is your best friend in a muscle belly injury, holding down inflammation and fluid accumulation ("swelling") while at the same time increasing beneficial blood flow through the injury. But DO NOT USE ICE MORE THAN 20 MINUTES AT A TIME. More than that can cause more damage than it repairs.

This may actually be the most useful post on this entire little forum of mine, and if you use this method exactly you can save yourself many weeks of lost training and long-term problems with muscle-belly scarring. Try it and see."

Dedicated
09-09-09, 11:03 pm
I really like that Ir0n Clad. Has anyone else tried something like that?

And no it has nothing to do with form. Not to thump my chest or anything but I have next to perfect squat form.

In all honesty, I'm scared to death that it's something that can only be fixed by going under the knife. So far the whole "stay off it, ice it, and take anti-inflammatory" strategy hasn't worked.

arab910
09-10-09, 8:34 am
that is phenomenal!

i sustained a lower lumbar sacral sprain in my right side about a year ago that still lingers slightly. i wonder if this method would work for that type of injury, too. i suppose BW hyperextensions should do the trick in the same way squats would for dedicated.

whatcha think?

Dedicated
09-10-09, 1:02 pm
Also, when it says "NO OTHER HEAVY WORK", does that mean I need to lay off upper body as well?

arab910
09-10-09, 1:53 pm
alright im gonna experiment with this rehab technique in appliance to my back injury. today i did 2 sets of hyperextensions x 15. i definitely felt a tightness in my back from the blood pump and there was pain, like starr said. but now, 3 hours after the workout my back feels reeeeeally good.

im gonna stick with this for sure

Ir0nClad
09-10-09, 4:17 pm
Also, when it says "NO OTHER HEAVY WORK", does that mean I need to lay off upper body as well?

Yes, until your knee is better focus on only the rehab routine. Make sure that when you do the squats, that your are going all the way parallel at least, if not a few inches lower than parallel. Doing half ass squats will only create more problems for your knee, since when you go slightly below parallel the weight of the bar is transferred to your hips which is much more capable of handling heavy loads than compared to your knees. This will strengthen and rebuild your knee and you shouldn't have any more problems in the future as long as your technique is correct.

For Arab's question, if you feel the injury in your back being worked by the hyperextensions than that should work. Proper deadlifts would also work in strengthening the lower back with this rehab method.

I got this rehab method from mark rippetoes strengthmill.net forum, and he posted the rehab itself, so im willing to say that it works very effectively.

arab910
09-10-09, 5:26 pm
Yes, until your knee is better focus on only the rehab routine. Make sure that when you do the squats, that your are going all the way parallel at least, if not a few inches lower than parallel. Doing half ass squats will only create more problems for your knee, since when you go slightly below parallel the weight of the bar is transferred to your hips which is much more capable of handling heavy loads than compared to your knees. This will strengthen and rebuild your knee and you shouldn't have any more problems in the future as long as your technique is correct.

For Arab's question, if you feel the injury in your back being worked by the hyperextensions than that should work. Proper deadlifts would also work in strengthening the lower back with this rehab method.

I got this rehab method from mark rippetoes strengthmill.net forum, and he posted the rehab itself, so im willing to say that it works very effectively.

like dedicated...no other work? b/c today i did soe overhead press and arnold curls..then eventually finished with 2 sets x 5 of the hypers

my back still feels good- but should i go tomorrow and do only the hypers? this time w/ 5 lbs instead of BW

Dedicated
09-11-09, 9:12 am
I understand the point of not lifting heavy, but since my injury is not really muscle related I thought I would be ok.

IRBS
09-11-09, 9:25 am
Bottom line: It doesnt matter how much you can Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Military Press, etc. What matters is how good of a football player you are. If you have any talent at the game, you may get a shot. But dont expect to play. As a Senior Walk-on, you would be lucky to get a spot at all. At the NCAA Div 1 level, a walk-on will RARELY ever beat out a scholarship player. They have generally found the best, due to all the avenues that are out there now for scouting, etc. What position do you play? How long has it been since you worked on those fundamentals?

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but if you havent been working at this over the last 3 years, it is going to be extremely difficult to walk on to a NCAA D1 football program and expect much more than a practice spot, at best, ESPECIALLY as a Senior. That's IF they even give you a shot.

It just seems odd to me that it took you this long to try to walk on, other than you have this dream of playing at that level. I understand you've had a few injuries, but I am pretty sure there are guys playing tommorrow who are in far more pain than you.

So, if youre any good at your position, and you have kept your ability up since High School, you may have a chance to get a spot on the team. If you've just been doing the college thing and this is you trying to live a dream at the last minute, I doubt it's gonna happen.

Sorry to be kind of harsh, but that's the way I am.

As far as your training, make sure your training is for this specific goal. If you go train like a bodybuilder you won't get there from here. Go over to Elitefts.com and ask Chad Wesley Smith a question on the Q&A. He may be able to help you.

Dedicated
09-11-09, 11:17 am
I'd rather you be real with me man.

And yeah I understand how it's going to be. I'm not coming in expecting to see the field or even dress, and that's fine with me. I played LB in high school. I had a couple of all-area type awards but nothing major. I'm a realistic person, and I understand that I'm not Patrick Willis or Brian Cushing. I had a couple of NA-IA schools interested in me coming out of high school, but I didn't need the scholarship money (full ride academic) and if I wanted to play I wanted to play somewhere big. It's just something that I know if I don't do now I'll regret it the rest of my life. I'm in as good of playing shape now as I've ever been. I did speed and agility work all last spring and most of the fall.

As far as the injuries go, I had planned on walking on my first fall, but the shoulder surgery held me back. A year later it still wasn't fully healed, there's no way I was physically able to play. I had lost a lot of muscle from a weak diet while I was rehabbing and not lifting heavy. Going into this year, I had a solid year or so in the weight room, about 4 months ago I screwed up my back. I tried to work out through it, but I knew I was just making it worse. So I took about six months off of heavy leg/back work, and within 2 weeks of coming back to the squat rack I had horrible knee pain, too the point where I can't even do 135.

I'm not the type of person to half way do something. If I'm going to play, then I want to come in at 220 lbs running as fast as I possibly can. I understand that numbers don't really matter when it gets down to it, but if I'm going to be throwing my body at guys who are 320 lbs and bench over 600 lbs then I want as much muscle as I can get.

Thanks for the reply IRBS