View Full Version : zero carb for 10 days bad?
sawwedoff
09-09-09, 9:43 pm
im really wanting to drop sum body fat quick.... then leave it off after that... i been working out for 3-4years now... im 5'6 n bout 170 at the end of the day... want to get hardcore about it... any pointers out there.... cause im try the keto-diet intel i get down in Bf% like 7% sooo besides alot of water... what can help me get stay on this keto-diet. starting in the morning! HAHAHA zero carbs for 10days stright... then throw in carbs. not much.. after that
you dont want to haphazardly do keto, you gotta commit for the long haul. You could do 10 days no carbs then a big 36 hour carb up for some glycogen depletion then supersaturation. Look into the anabolic diet, you do 5 days no carbs two days with carbs. I think your best bet would just be to get your diet right and up the cardio and you should be good.
sawwedoff
09-09-09, 10:00 pm
them guys talk on MD alot about zero carbs... one cheat day a week then... how ur body doesnt even really need carbs, to run...fats n protein is all it needs..but whatever the case is... i love carbs... but i know they dont do me any good... soo im really do this keto-diet. 1st ten days zero carbs... and then throw in sum after that.
im really wanting to drop sum body fat quick.... then leave it off after that... i been working out for 3-4years now... im 5'6 n bout 170 at the end of the day... want to get hardcore about it... any pointers out there.... cause im try the keto-diet intel i get down in Bf% like 7% sooo besides alot of water... what can help me get stay on this keto-diet. starting in the morning! HAHAHA zero carbs for 10days stright... then throw in carbs. not much.. after that
you dont want to haphazardly do keto, you gotta commit for the long haul. You could do 10 days no carbs then a big 36 hour carb up for some glycogen depletion then supersaturation. Look into the anabolic diet, you do 5 days no carbs two days with carbs. I think your best bet would just be to get your diet right and up the cardio and you should be good.
Having recently come off the Anabolic Diet, I can attest to its effectiveness. I went from 189 (Beginning of July) to 170 (End of August) It was not easy, especially the first 2 weeks. No carbs drives you nuts, and I found I lost some of my strength in terms of how much weight I moved. Cardio was six days a week for me and Cuts was tossed into the mix as well.
After doing it though I realize I shouldn't of had done it at 189, should of had waited until at least 200, but I learned from this and don't regret it. My body did tone up, mind you it wasn't enough to go up on stage, but I saw an outline around my six pack and it wasn't just round fat but rather the outer formation of the muscles.
GJN5002
09-09-09, 10:17 pm
them guys talk on MD alot about zero carbs... one cheat day a week then... how ur body doesnt even really need carbs, to run...fats n protein is all it needs..but whatever the case is... i love carbs... but i know they dont do me any good... soo im really do this keto-diet. 1st ten days zero carbs... and then throw in sum after that.
hah, just be careful if you don do keto right you will feel like shit and probably lose muscle. there is a formula involved its not just no carbs. have to make sure your fat intake is correct.
LegendKillerJosh
09-09-09, 11:30 pm
them guys talk on MD alot about zero carbs... one cheat day a week then... how ur body doesnt even really need carbs, to run...fats n protein is all it needs..but whatever the case is... i love carbs... but i know they dont do me any good... soo im really do this keto-diet. 1st ten days zero carbs... and then throw in sum after that.
I just find it puzzling how people say "you don't really need carbs to run," which I guess is technically true, but they do provide the energy for high intensity workouts, and help prevent protein breakdown during workouts and provide a lot of other help for workouts and muscle building, and that is the best way to burn fat.
GJN5002
09-10-09, 11:21 am
I just find it puzzling how people say "you don't really need carbs to run," which I guess is technically true, but they do provide the energy for high intensity workouts, and help prevent protein breakdown during workouts and provide a lot of other help for workouts and muscle building, and that is the best way to burn fat.
No you dont need carbs to "run." If you do keto fat provides the energy that the carbs previously did. Adeqaute protein and fat consumtion keeps you from becoming catabolic. If you are worried about burning fat, you shouldnt be overly concerned with building new muscle. Im not sure why that is puzzling?
Altered Beast
09-10-09, 11:26 am
I have never heard of a professional bodybuilder (any Mr. Olympia) saying that they had days with zero carbs.
Check out Jay Cutler's site, he posts his daily Olympia diet routine and it changes (he still eats tons of carbs, even grits and white rice). Or look up some of Dorian Yate's interviews where he discusses competition dieting. They never mention a zero carb day.
LegendKillerJosh
09-10-09, 11:37 am
No you dont need carbs to "run." If you do keto fat provides the energy that the carbs previously did. Adeqaute protein and fat consumtion keeps you from becoming catabolic. If you are worried about burning fat, you shouldnt be overly concerned with building new muscle. Im not sure why that is puzzling?
What I am saying is that while you may not "need" carbs they are very important, so why get rid of them?
rev8ball
09-10-09, 11:44 am
Okay, guys, before this conversation gets outta hand (as it usually does):
This topic of carbs being needed vs not needed has been beaten to death a million times before on this forum, so let's move along, and get back to the original post.
Thanks......
LegendKillerJosh
09-10-09, 11:47 am
Okay, guys, before this conversation gets outta hand (as it usually does):
This topic of carbs being needed vs not needed has been beaten to death a million times before on this forum, so let's move along, and get back to the original post.
Thanks......
That is the topic of the original post.
Actually, I'm going to say this to the original post - you are only 170 pounds, I would definitely not deplete your body of ANY nutrients, carbs, fats, or anything else under the sun. If you want to burn fat, do some fast walking/slow jogging in the morning on an empty stomach, then eat a large breakfast, and make your meals smaller and smaller throughout the day. I, and many others, wouldn't recommend such an extreme diet for someone in your situation.
krazyassmexican
09-10-09, 12:08 pm
I have never heard of a professional bodybuilder (any Mr. Olympia) saying that they had days with zero carbs.
Check out Jay Cutler's site, he posts his daily Olympia diet routine and it changes (he still eats tons of carbs, even grits and white rice). Or look up some of Dorian Yate's interviews where he discusses competition dieting. They never mention a zero carb day.
also none of those guys use animal cuts etc etc
you cant compare yourself to any mr olympia, listen to offtopic radio number 31 and check out what dorian yates was using to burn fat and the dosages, with those dosages i could hit the buffette 6 times a day maxing and still burn a shit load of fat, anyways to the original poster 10days in a zero carb diet wont burn a gram of fat it will be most likely water weight loss
That is the topic of the original post.
Actually, I'm going to say this to the original post - you are only 170 pounds, I would definitely not deplete your body of ANY nutrients, carbs, fats, or anything else under the sun. If you want to burn fat, do some fast walking/slow jogging in the morning on an empty stomach, then eat a large breakfast, and make your meals smaller and smaller throughout the day. I, and many others, wouldn't recommend such an extreme diet for someone in your situation.
No the topic of the original post is
any pointers out there.... cause im try the keto-diet intel i get down in Bf% like 7% sooo besides alot of water... what can help me get stay on this keto-diet.
so either comment on how to help him Keto-diet or bugger off. THIS forum area is for people who don't diet conventionally. It's the Methods to the Madness section & we do shit differntly, not wrong...just differnt.
Okay, guys, before this conversation gets outta hand (as it usually does):
This topic of carbs being needed vs not needed has been beaten to death a million times before on this forum, so let's move along, and get back to the original post.
Thanks......
no way, the carb war never gets out of hand haha
That is the topic of the original post.
Actually, I'm going to say this to the original post - you are only 170 pounds, I would definitely not deplete your body of ANY nutrients, carbs, fats, or anything else under the sun. .
this I will agree with you on, my original advice was just get your diet in check and get on the cardio.
sawwedoff
09-11-09, 3:30 pm
well to let u guys know i alrdy drop 3 lbs... in one day. HAHAH could be water. but its looking goood!
sawwedoff
09-11-09, 3:33 pm
n plus i know alot of pros, thats do low-to-none carbs.... they may use checiamls to keep there muscle up... but.. still...
C.Coronato
09-11-09, 3:38 pm
Im a natural competitor and have been doing a Keto (no carb ) diet for the past four weeks. I am in show prep, and i have a refeed one meal once a week on sundays. I feel great. Make sure you have a good amount of healthy fats in your diet to supplement not having the carbs, but like others have said, you being so light, may not want to do a keto diet just yet.
Altered Beast
09-11-09, 3:44 pm
also none of those guys use animal cuts etc etc
you cant compare yourself to any mr olympia, listen to offtopic radio number 31 and check out what dorian yates was using to burn fat and the dosages, with those dosages i could hit the buffette 6 times a day maxing and still burn a shit load of fat, anyways to the original poster 10days in a zero carb diet wont burn a gram of fat it will be most likely water weight loss
I am just stating that they are the best of the best in our game. They never ever go zero carb for any reason.
I believe what works for one, doesn't work for the other. But in this case, it is an exception.
Eat carbs
Altered Beast
09-11-09, 3:45 pm
No the topic of the original post is
so either comment on how to help him Keto-diet or bugger off. THIS forum area is for people who don't diet conventionally. It's the Methods to the Madness section & we do shit differntly, not wrong...just differnt.
Bodybuilding in it of itself is madness...precisely why I love it.
krazyassmexican
09-11-09, 5:41 pm
I am just stating that they are the best of the best in our game. They never ever go zero carb for any reason.
I believe what works for one, doesn't work for the other. But in this case, it is an exception.
Eat carbs
evan centopani turned pro on a ketogenic diet, toney freeman took fifth place at last years olympia on a ketogenic diet, ryan kenelly broke the bench press record on a ketogenic diet, a bunch of female ifbb pro bodybuilders win shows on zero carbs again, in a million years try to inmitate what dorian yates did for his diet or kai or anybody else, one thing is genetics and another thing is the "supplements" that allow them to eat 1000grams of carbs a day and show ripped on stage
ryan kenelly broke the bench press record on a ketogenic diet
What is your source for this comment?? Which bench record? He's broken it a few times...
When he was on his streak of 1000+lbs bench records he wasn't eating a "keto"/0 carb diet... At times he was in ketosis, which in academic literature is defined as less than 100grams of carbs per day... This was primarily the week or 2 leading into meets where he was dropping to 275 or 308.
The majority of his 900+ bench attempts were at SHW so why be in ketosis anyway...
Also, though some powerlifters go almost 0 carb the week of a meet for the purpose of dropping water weight, this is at most 2 weeks long. Following weigh ins, most guys in the 220 and above weight classes pound 500+ grams of carbs in that 24hour period leading into the meet if they cut water weight. Hell, i've downed damn near 1000grams of carbs before and that was after dropping from 220 to 198 for weigh ins...
My info concerning Kennelly comes from several of his closest training partners that i personally know, and several of his closest friends who just so happen to be good friends and former training partners of mine...
For all those that follow the keto/0 carb methodology, please post a source for the claim that Kennelly was on keto, or quit using him as an example of someone using 0 carb diets... because all the info that i have first and second hand states that he was not on a keto diet...
IronWilson
09-12-09, 7:59 pm
I am just stating that they are the best of the best in our game. They never ever go zero carb for any reason.
I believe what works for one, doesn't work for the other. But in this case, it is an exception.
Eat carbs
Sometimes I wonder if Natural Bodybuilding and Chemically assisted bodybuilding should be considered entirely different sports. More often the not, they are. When drugs are introduced, one's body will act in a totally different way. The sad truth is that today, instead of dieting hardcore, pro bodybuilder are eating cheat food while prepping for a contest and taking high dosages of T9. These guys who are the "best of the best in our game" are also some of the most daring chemists. Most of them still are very dedicated and work very hard. But in order to succeed nowadays, you need to be on a LOT of drugs.
I think it's odd how people who are gung-ho for carb dieting say that it is "not for natural athletes." HA! With no chemical assistance, what is holding on to all that muscle while your blood sugar raises and dives with each cup of brown rice you are eating with a chicken breast and nothing to slow it down?
Fats and proteins are the most anabolic macronutrients, carbs are just icing on the cake. Fats do things for a natural atheletes body hormonally that carbs could never do. When an athlete carb cycles, he is not happy and his girlfriend is DEFINITELY not happy.
So, if you would like to continue to feel strong, be able to raise wood, and get lean at the same time, all while holding on to muscle, DON'T eat carbs.
GJN5002
09-14-09, 10:04 am
This is something we will never agree on. Some of us will defend no carb diets to the end others will do the same about carbs and neither will budge. Only thing I know is that there are no absolutes. Both have advabtages and disadvantages. In my opinion most performance based sports/athletes do better with cabrs but when it comes to fat loss no carbs works the best for many people.
This is something we will never agree on. Some of us will defend no carb diets to the end others will do the same about carbs and neither will budge. Only thing I know is that there are no absolutes. Both have advabtages and disadvantages. In my opinion most performance based sports/athletes do better with cabrs but when it comes to fat loss no carbs works the best for many people.
whats worst is some people just don't know how to say "let's agree to disagree" and move on...
krazyassmexican
09-14-09, 1:43 pm
What is your source for this comment?? Which bench record? He's broken it a few times...
When he was on his streak of 1000+lbs bench records he wasn't eating a "keto"/0 carb diet... At times he was in ketosis, which in academic literature is defined as less than 100grams of carbs per day... This was primarily the week or 2 leading into meets where he was dropping to 275 or 308.
The majority of his 900+ bench attempts were at SHW so why be in ketosis anyway...
Also, though some powerlifters go almost 0 carb the week of a meet for the purpose of dropping water weight, this is at most 2 weeks long. Following weigh ins, most guys in the 220 and above weight classes pound 500+ grams of carbs in that 24hour period leading into the meet if they cut water weight. Hell, i've downed damn near 1000grams of carbs before and that was after dropping from 220 to 198 for weigh ins...
My info concerning Kennelly comes from several of his closest training partners that i personally know, and several of his closest friends who just so happen to be good friends and former training partners of mine...
For all those that follow the keto/0 carb methodology, please post a source for the claim that Kennelly was on keto, or quit using him as an example of someone using 0 carb diets... because all the info that i have first and second hand states that he was not on a keto diet...
kenelly himself at nobull radio
krazyassmexican
09-14-09, 1:45 pm
Sometimes I wonder if Natural Bodybuilding and Chemically assisted bodybuilding should be considered entirely different sports. More often the not, they are. When drugs are introduced, one's body will act in a totally different way. The sad truth is that today, instead of dieting hardcore, pro bodybuilder are eating cheat food while prepping for a contest and taking high dosages of T9. These guys who are the "best of the best in our game" are also some of the most daring chemists. Most of them still are very dedicated and work very hard. But in order to succeed nowadays, you need to be on a LOT of drugs.
I think it's odd how people who are gung-ho for carb dieting say that it is "not for natural athletes." HA! With no chemical assistance, what is holding on to all that muscle while your blood sugar raises and dives with each cup of brown rice you are eating with a chicken breast and nothing to slow it down?
Fats and proteins are the most anabolic macronutrients, carbs are just icing on the cake. Fats do things for a natural atheletes body hormonally that carbs could never do. When an athlete carb cycles, he is not happy and his girlfriend is DEFINITELY not happy.
So, if you would like to continue to feel strong, be able to raise wood, and get lean at the same time, all while holding on to muscle, DON'T eat carbs.
what is t9?
i only knew of t2 t3 and t4
krazyassmexican
09-14-09, 1:51 pm
This is something we will never agree on. Some of us will defend no carb diets to the end others will do the same about carbs and neither will budge. Only thing I know is that there are no absolutes. Both have advabtages and disadvantages. In my opinion most performance based sports/athletes do better with cabrs but when it comes to fat loss no carbs works the best for many people.
whats worst is some people just don't know how to say "let's agree to disagree" and move on...
what pisses me off is that most of the guys who scream eat carbs and keto diets are bad for your health, have never even been on a keto diet, they just wave studies like they do at md now days, i also agree that there's no such thing as a cookie cutter diet, last year i put my dad on a ketogenic diet, because he was on a low carb diet(200grams of carbs a day) with zero results, so i gave him a chanse to go zero carbs and had amazing results, when he started using efas his arms filled even more, i have helped plenty people lose weight on low carb diets, i never deny they work, neither i say they are bad, but do i say a fuckin keto diet is the only thing that works for me? yes i did say it cuz i have proven, but when a forum member comes and tells a guy "doing a keto diet at your age is stupid" or some other classic lines, i fuckin hate it
that is not fair, and they are disrespecting the person trying to get to know a keto diet, BUT oh well!
making some of the people here understand a zero carb diet is the way our ancestors lived and it is healthy, is like my uncle trying to make me understand, church and religion is the way to go...... is a fuckin endless useless disscusion
IronWilson
09-14-09, 5:10 pm
what is t9?
i only knew of t2 t3 and t4
Sorry, I meant T3, lol.
But what I find funny is now it seems everyone craps on the keto diet now that Palumbo is no longer at MD and Evan Centopani had carbs with his contest diet to win the New York Pro. But they forget that he was on a keto diet to actually turned pro.
My personal favorite argument is when someone is asked how a keto diet can be detrimental to someone's performance, and then they say: "Studies show that a ketogenic diet slows performance for endurance athletes." Yeah? Well no shit..... We're talking about bodybuilding or powerlifting here.
kenelly himself at nobull radio
intriguing... I'll have to ask him to clarify which record, and the extent of what he meant by ketosis... On the basis that ketosis can be reached even with the consumption of carbs, and there is a whole series of diets that are called "keto diets" that include carbs that were published in literature before the 0-carb diet fad came into fashion.
krazyassmexican
09-14-09, 5:23 pm
intriguing... I'll have to ask him to clarify which record, and the extent of what he meant by ketosis... On the basis that ketosis can be reached even with the consumption of carbs, and there is a whole series of diets that are called "keto diets" that include carbs that were published in literature before the 0-carb diet fad came into fashion.
i cant speak from those "fad diets" i have carbs from cashews, natural pb, veggies, and insoluble/soluble fiber supplementation
what is t9?
i only knew of t2 t3 and t4
All I know is T3 rocks!
GJN5002
09-15-09, 10:18 am
intriguing... I'll have to ask him to clarify which record, and the extent of what he meant by ketosis... On the basis that ketosis can be reached even with the consumption of carbs, and there is a whole series of diets that are called "keto diets" that include carbs that were published in literature before the 0-carb diet fad came into fashion.
The only way a keto diet can have carbs is if you stay in ketosis (obviously) so maybe if you were big enough or on enough drugs you could get away with eating some but I doubt it. I think what you are refering to is some bullshit keto variation.
How is keto a fad? Fad diets are generally classified as such because they dont work and die out quickly, crackers and milk diet, grapefruit diet etc. The human body evolved eating primarily protein and fat, not carbs. I guess our ancestors were ahead of the curve on fad diets?
The only way a keto diet can have carbs is if you stay in ketosis (obviously) so maybe if you were big enough or on enough drugs you could get away with eating some but I doubt it. I think what you are refering to is some bullshit keto variation.
How is keto a fad? Fad diets are generally classified as such because they dont work and die out quickly, crackers and milk diet, grapefruit diet etc. The human body evolved eating primarily protein and fat, not carbs. I guess our ancestors were ahead of the curve on fad diets?
IIRC the Akins diet slowly re-incorperates carbs (upto a 100g a day) over a course of weeks...
I think alot of stayin' in ketosis is carb selection, timing and obviously the amount eaten. Carbs can be eaten but the amount is going to vary depending on personal factors.
krazyassmexican
09-15-09, 11:20 am
All I know is T3 rocks!
i cant fight that
kenelly himself at nobull radio
Now that i put it all together...
LMAO!!
krazyassmexican
09-15-09, 11:50 am
Now that i put it all together...
LMAO!!
i dont understand you bro i am gonna ad you as a bro so we can talk about this via pms
The only way a keto diet can have carbs is if you stay in ketosis (obviously) so maybe if you were big enough or on enough drugs you could get away with eating some but I doubt it. I think what you are refering to is some bullshit keto variation.
How is keto a fad? Fad diets are generally classified as such because they dont work and die out quickly, crackers and milk diet, grapefruit diet etc. The human body evolved eating primarily protein and fat, not carbs. I guess our ancestors were ahead of the curve on fad diets?
Ketosis more or less occurs once the body starts to burn fat vice carbs for energy... aka, it is a state of the organism characterised by elevated levels of ketone bodies in the blood, occurring when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies (which can be used by all of the body for energy as an alternative to glucose). These ketone bodies are a by-product of the lipid metabolic pathway after the fat is converted to energy.
So if the body is producing fatty acids as a result processing fat in the liver, technically, from a biological stand point, that body is in ketosis.
And now a little history if you will...
This is not the first time Keto diets have become big in the bb'ing world...
Keto diets were designed during the 1920s as a result of trying to find a means of controlling epilepsy, predominately refractory epilepsy (hardest to control verson). Well, one thing people realized was that people were dropping body fat with minimal exercise. So, of course, bb'ers at the time jumped on the diet and rode its coat tails for many years. Eventually, the pendulum swung back the other way, and people started eating carbs again while dieting, mostly as a result of some literature showing that you can in fact stay in ketosis while eating more carbs -- all that had to change was the ratio of proteins, fats, and carbs to ensure one maintained a calorie deficit. So now, the pendulum has swung back, once more, toward the 0-carb side of the spectrum... And yes, in due time it will swing back the other way... So at the end of the day, just about every diet is a fad... Regardless of it works or not is irrelevant in my mind...
Ketosis more or less occurs once the body starts to burn fat vice carbs for energy... aka, it is a state of the organism characterised by elevated levels of ketone bodies in the blood, occurring when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies (which can be used by all of the body for energy as an alternative to glucose). These ketone bodies are a by-product of the lipid metabolic pathway after the fat is converted to energy.
So if the body is producing fatty acids as a result processing fat in the liver, technically, from a biological stand point, that body is in ketosis.
And now a little history if you will...
This is not the first time Keto diets have become big in the bb'ing world...
Keto diets were designed during the 1920s as a result of trying to find a means of controlling epilepsy, predominately refractory epilepsy (hardest to control verson). Well, one thing people realized was that people were dropping body fat with minimal exercise. So, of course, bb'ers at the time jumped on the diet and rode its coat tails for many years. Eventually, the pendulum swung back the other way, and people started eating carbs again while dieting, mostly as a result of some literature showing that you can in fact stay in ketosis while eating more carbs -- all that had to change was the ratio of proteins, fats, and carbs to ensure one maintained a calorie deficit. So now, the pendulum has swung back, once more, toward the 0-carb side of the spectrum... And yes, in due time it will swing back the other way... So at the end of the day, just about every diet is a fad... Regardless of it works or not is irrelevant in my mind...
You can define ketosis all day long but if you spike insulin you will fall out of ketosis and you will not be on a truly ketogenic diet. there are many variations that hover around ketosis but I mean a true ketogenic diet.
How can every diet be a fad when there are evolutionary roots in the way we eat? I dont agree that the use or non use of carbs in the diet is a fad its more of a preference isnt it?
sawwedoff
09-15-09, 2:59 pm
ok guys back to me!!! this was my question..... now answer me this... on keto diet, thats zero carbs alll day? as in no Peanut butter, no almonds, no vegtables, cause they all have sum carbs, less than 10g. cause... i dont understand it really, is it. meat meat meat meat all day? or what?
ok guys back to me!!! this was my question..... now answer me this... on keto diet, thats zero carbs alll day? as in no Peanut butter, no almonds, no vegtables, cause they all have sum carbs, less than 10g. cause... i dont understand it really, is it. meat meat meat meat all day? or what?
there is no such thing as a ZERO carb diet...
unless you eat only meat...
eggs even have carbs as does most organ meat...
sawwedoff
09-15-09, 3:11 pm
just making sure... like when they say no carbs, thats just means, no breads, etc etc etc. u can have vegtables, nuts. n whey proteins, which have sum carbs too.
IronWilson
09-15-09, 7:05 pm
just making sure... like when they say no carbs, thats just means, no breads, etc etc etc. u can have vegtables, nuts. n whey proteins, which have sum carbs too.
I don't care what the circumstance, you need to have veggies somewhere when dieting. Zero carb really means zero starchy carbs, because we all don't really consider vegetables to be "carb foods" even though technically they are.