PDA

View Full Version : hang clean help



DG33
10-02-09, 12:26 am
alright so im a freshman this year and my squat is pretty good (315) my bench is ok (180) and my clean is just terrible i do about 150 and thats pretty low for other freshman at my school. any tips or any work outs that will really help get my hang clean up? thanks

BryanSmash!
10-02-09, 4:47 am
I'm assuming you're a football player, or considering trying out for it. At any rate the best advice I can give you is to have an experienced player or coach observe your form while lifting near maximal weights, and follow their advice and corrections. Developing that explosive power the correct way will aid you immensely in your chosen sport.

Sho
10-02-09, 10:08 am
keep practicing to get your form down and dont worry too much about the weight, concentrate on being very very explosive...you will be able to clean heavy in no time...

ironshaolin
10-02-09, 10:16 am
Bend, jump like your life depends on it, shrug hard, keep the bar close, get your ass under the bar FAST. Speed is imperative. Try following Wendler's 5/3/1 style for the move. First, set a max. Take a weight used x reps x .0333 +weight used =1 rep max. Take 90% of this. This is your TRAINING MAX. In week one, do 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x as many as you can. Week 2, go for 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x as many as you can. Week 3, do 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x as many as you can. Week 4, do 40%x5, 50%x5, 60%x5 and END IT THERE. Use all percentages off your TRAINING max. This will ensure adequate progression. After week 4, add 10lbs to your TRAINING max and start the cycle over. Do this for 1-2 years, and you will be cleaning some serious weight.

Young&Hungry
10-02-09, 3:12 pm
If it doesn't look like this, you're wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrulaG7eKtE

BTW, the jump technique in the clean exercise is obsolete and inefficient. If you're doing cleans correctly, they are nothing more than quick manipulations of body position under and around the barbell. That is why having strong olympic lifts do not necessarily imply an athlete is explosive, which is also why many collegiate athletic strength and conditioning programs do not perform the olympic lifts any more. Jumping or anything like it is a waste of energy and leads to poor form.

TigerAce01
10-02-09, 3:40 pm
If it doesn't look like this, you're wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrulaG7eKtE

BTW, the jump technique in the clean exercise is obsolete and inefficient. If you're doing cleans correctly, they are nothing more than quick manipulations of body position under and around the barbell. That is why having strong olympic lifts do not necessarily imply an athlete is explosive, which is also why many collegiate athletic strength and conditioning programs do not perform the olympic lifts any more. Jumping or anything like it is a waste of energy and leads to poor form.

Very excellent point. You'll see that the most elite Olympic lifters never let their feet leave the ground. The jump is basically a dying technique, and will soon be as obsolete as the split clean and split snatch (the split jerk is still the most efficient form of overhead though).

Technique rules over all in Olympic lifting. Yes, you must be very strong in order to be a force in Olympic lifting, but unless your technique is flawless, you will get no where. Honestly, if you would like to increase just your clean and no other competition Oly lifts, clean 2 times a week, once at 70-75% of your 1RM for 3 sets of 10, then another day, go 70-85% of your 1RM for 3 sets of 5. In training, never take Oly lifts to failure, this will not build your strength correctly, and will lead to poor form. The only times to check your 1RM is after a complete cycle, which should be at least 6 weeks. If you want a more advanced routine that focuses solely on improving Oly lifts, shoot me a PM and I should be able to help you find a suitable fit.

-Ace

Young&Hungry
10-02-09, 11:56 pm
Very excellent point. You'll see that the most elite Olympic lifters never let their feet leave the ground. The jump is basically a dying technique, and will soon be as obsolete as the split clean and split snatch (the split jerk is still the most efficient form of overhead though).

Technique rules over all in Olympic lifting. Yes, you must be very strong in order to be a force in Olympic lifting, but unless your technique is flawless, you will get no where. Honestly, if you would like to increase just your clean and no other competition Oly lifts, clean 2 times a week, once at 70-75% of your 1RM for 3 sets of 10, then another day, go 70-85% of your 1RM for 3 sets of 5. In training, never take Oly lifts to failure, this will not build your strength correctly, and will lead to poor form. The only times to check your 1RM is after a complete cycle, which should be at least 6 weeks. If you want a more advanced routine that focuses solely on improving Oly lifts, shoot me a PM and I should be able to help you find a suitable fit.

-Ace

I personally never agree with doing an olympic lift for more than a set of 5 unless cardio conditioning is your goal, but I agree with everything else here 100%. I'm sure you hear about people telling you that you need to "jump" in a clean, but do you ever wonder why this country, quite frankly, sucks at olympic lifting? Form and submaximal training are king in olympic lifting. If your form isn't 100% spot on and you're not constantly evaluating it to see what you can work on, you're doing it wrong. The ones (aside from some SHW's) who are most successful in olympic lifting are the ones who have the most impeccable technique (Rybakov, Dimas, Kakhiashvilli, Yong). Watching and learning is the key.

TigerAce01
10-03-09, 12:02 am
I personally never agree with doing an olympic lift for more than a set of 5 unless cardio conditioning is your goal, but I agree with everything else here 100%. I'm sure you hear about people telling you that you need to "jump" in a clean, but do you ever wonder why this country, quite frankly, sucks at olympic lifting? Form and submaximal training are king in olympic lifting. If your form isn't 100% spot on and you're not constantly evaluating it to see what you can work on, you're doing it wrong. The ones (aside from some SHW's) who are most successful in olympic lifting are the ones who have the most impeccable technique (Rybakov, Dimas, Kakhiashvilli, Yong). Watching and learning is the key.

The 3 sets of 10 really are for more beginner lifters, adding almost a technique day, Dr. Mike Stone is a fan of using 3 sets of 10 for novice and inexperienced lifters, and for the first 2-3 weeks of his advanced cycles. Some lifters even like sets of 3, but they are the minority. And the lifters you mentioned are excellent, everyone should take a look at them for tips on technique. Personally, I also love Dmitry Klokov's technique, and have gained the most knowledge watching him. I would even compare my body frame to his, which is most likely the reason why his technique works so well for me.

-Ace

BigChrisF
10-03-09, 6:29 pm
Jumping is not obsolete. You don't need to leave the ground very far, but not jumping is a mistake. Being explosive is much more important and strength in the snatch and clean & jerk.

As has been said, technique is everything. Get your technique down and the weights you are using will go up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOA5RbAQWA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijQwHIKzMbo

He's not jumping high in the air, but his feet are leaving the ground.

TigerAce01
10-03-09, 7:12 pm
Jumping is not obsolete. You don't need to leave the ground very far, but not jumping is a mistake. Being explosive is much more important and strength in the snatch and clean & jerk.

As has been said, technique is everything. Get your technique down and the weights you are using will go up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOA5RbAQWA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijQwHIKzMbo

He's not jumping high in the air, but his feet are leaving the ground.

Razazadeh is classically trained, and has always been one of the most outstanding lifters in the world. For most others, the jump is unnecessary, and results in missed lifts due to the change in grounding and footing. The Russian team never jumps...they go onto their toes...and this is true of most lifters. I believe the Russians and Eastern Block countries have the best and most efficient technique, as can be seen with their near absolute dominance.

-Ace

violator
10-04-09, 4:04 pm
When performing the power clean, is it necessary to go all the way ATG on the catch, like in these vids?...my form seems ok in every respect except that, my hips usually descend about 10 inches or so...& i do explode on the "jump"...but only ever "onto my toes" like mentioned above....

TigerAce01
10-04-09, 5:36 pm
When performing the power clean, is it necessary to go all the way ATG on the catch, like in these vids?...my form seems ok in every respect except that, my hips usually descend about 10 inches or so...& i do explode on the "jump"...but only ever "onto my toes" like mentioned above....

From what my coaches have told me, and what I see, only true elite level lifters ever go so far down. Usually it takes years upon years of training to be able to go that far down and not be crushed by the weight. I remember the first time I cleaned 225, I did a full front squat to get underneath the bar...then I nearly broke my wrists because of the shock. If it wasn't for the Convict wraps, I swear I would be in casts. Usually the standard is a quarter squat to meet the bar, or the stone age method of the split clean. I find the split clean dangerous and unneeded, dangerous because it's very easy to drop the weight on your femur, and would probably snap it when you go to heavier weights.

Hope this helped!

-Ace

BigChrisF
10-04-09, 8:40 pm
You only need to duck under the bar as low as you can get it up on the first pull. Heavier weights won't come up as high, so you need to duck lower.

violator
10-06-09, 3:23 am
From what my coaches have told me, and what I see, only true elite level lifters ever go so far down. Usually it takes years upon years of training to be able to go that far down and not be crushed by the weight. I remember the first time I cleaned 225, I did a full front squat to get underneath the bar...then I nearly broke my wrists because of the shock. If it wasn't for the Convict wraps, I swear I would be in casts. Usually the standard is a quarter squat to meet the bar, or the stone age method of the split clean. I find the split clean dangerous and unneeded, dangerous because it's very easy to drop the weight on your femur, and would probably snap it when you go to heavier weights.

Hope this helped!

-Ace


You only need to duck under the bar as low as you can get it up on the first pull. Heavier weights won't come up as high, so you need to duck lower.


Great feedback...thanks gents

Young&Hungry
10-06-09, 8:20 pm
The 3 sets of 10 really are for more beginner lifters, adding almost a technique day, Dr. Mike Stone is a fan of using 3 sets of 10 for novice and inexperienced lifters, and for the first 2-3 weeks of his advanced cycles.

I didn't realize you meant for a beginner. I agree with that totally then. Once you get more advanced, however, anything more than a 5 is kind of pointless...unless you're sick in the head like Jesse Marunde and hang snatch 120 kilos for 20 reps.


Razazadeh is classically trained, and has always been one of the most outstanding lifters in the world. For most others, the jump is unnecessary, and results in missed lifts due to the change in grounding and footing. The Russian team never jumps...they go onto their toes...and this is true of most lifters. I believe the Russians and Eastern Block countries have the best and most efficient technique, as can be seen with their near absolute dominance.

-Ace

The best technical lifters IMO are Dimas, Kakhiashvilli, Rybakov, Chigishev, and especially Scerbathis. Scerbathis has one of the most beautiful cleans in the game, and Kakhiashvilli and Rybakov are like robots on the snatch - they all look the same. If you prod around olympic lifting circles, Reza (believe it or not) is regarded as one of the worst technicians at that elite level of lifting, but brute strength wise is definitely called the strongest.


From what my coaches have told me, and what I see, only true elite level lifters ever go so far down. Usually it takes years upon years of training to be able to go that far down and not be crushed by the weight. I remember the first time I cleaned 225, I did a full front squat to get underneath the bar...then I nearly broke my wrists because of the shock. If it wasn't for the Convict wraps, I swear I would be in casts. Usually the standard is a quarter squat to meet the bar, or the stone age method of the split clean. I find the split clean dangerous and unneeded, dangerous because it's very easy to drop the weight on your femur, and would probably snap it when you go to heavier weights.

Hope this helped!

-Ace

With regards to the squat clean, teaching a true power clean is much easier (and probably much more practical) than a squat clean so that may be why your coach said that. Wrist flexibility may have been a factor in terms of your wrist pain bro, first time I cleaned my wrists hurt like an SOB for weeks. Once the tendons got more flexible and strong, however, I haven't had a problem since.

You do not want to wear thick wrist wraps designed for heavy bench pressing on cleans - you'll lose your wrist flexiblity, screwing up your rack position and may lead to you being thrown forward a lot. I agree with you on the split cleans, however, they are totally obsolete and impractical.

TigerAce01
10-06-09, 8:49 pm
With regards to the squat clean, teaching a true power clean is much easier (and probably much more practical) than a squat clean so that may be why your coach said that. Wrist flexibility may have been a factor in terms of your wrist pain bro, first time I cleaned my wrists hurt like an SOB for weeks. Once the tendons got more flexible and strong, however, I haven't had a problem since.

You do not want to wear thick wrist wraps designed for heavy bench pressing on cleans - you'll lose your wrist flexiblity, screwing up your rack position and may lead to you being thrown forward a lot. I agree with you on the split cleans, however, they are totally obsolete and impractical.

Well, with squat cleans you are supposed to meet the bar first and then go down anyway. Any technical coach I've spoken to says the same thing, but they're all in the same group. And my flexibility is incredible in every joint, the pain came from not being strong enough, and the shock from the full squat caused my knuckles to touch the back of my forearms as as I dropped the weight, almost onto my thighs. I wear the 12" Convict Pro wrist wraps, they're perfect for me. Other wraps don't allow me to bring my elbows out far enough.

I pride myself in having excellent form, which is why I have so much knowledge on the subject. I always take the time to ask every question from every angle before I even pick up a bar. That's why you see most guys at my age who used to be stronger than me in high school, I'm now blowing past them.

-Ace

tinyterror
10-06-09, 11:42 pm
i fully agree that form is imperative. i used to do endless cleans for football, and a lot of what people perceive as strength on those lifts is actually just technique and efficiency. a relatively small guy can clean quite a bit of weight if he has the correct technique (just watch the olympics). unfortunately, trying to explain how to do a clean doesn't do you much good, because it is definitely one of those lifts that requires a sort of on sight coaching, because it is so complex. you could be pulling too slowly, not catching deep enought, etc. my reccommendation would be to work some of the complimentary lifts, like hang cleans, jump shrugs, deadlifts, and high pulls to develop and condition your muscles through some of the abbreviated segments, and to condition you to the demands of olympic lifting, because it can be very difficult and taxing, especially if you are new to weightlifting entirely.

Young&Hungry
10-09-09, 2:51 pm
Well, with squat cleans you are supposed to meet the bar first and then go down anyway. Any technical coach I've spoken to says the same thing, but they're all in the same group. And my flexibility is incredible in every joint, the pain came from not being strong enough, and the shock from the full squat caused my knuckles to touch the back of my forearms as as I dropped the weight, almost onto my thighs. I wear the 12" Convict Pro wrist wraps, they're perfect for me. Other wraps don't allow me to bring my elbows out far enough.

I pride myself in having excellent form, which is why I have so much knowledge on the subject. I always take the time to ask every question from every angle before I even pick up a bar. That's why you see most guys at my age who used to be stronger than me in high school, I'm now blowing past them.

-Ace

Makes sense Ace. Form is the bottom line in olympic lifting and there's always something to be learned. Out of total curiousity, what are your oly lift numbers?

TigerAce01
10-09-09, 3:11 pm
Makes sense Ace. Form is the bottom line in olympic lifting and there's always something to be learned. Out of total curiousity, what are your oly lift numbers?

My PRs are 250lbs power clean, 230lbs CJ, and 145lbs Snatch, at 200lbs bodyweight. I want to compete in the 94kg class, so I would like to gain just a few more pounds. The Snatch is really giving me problems because of an ankle injury I had a few months ago, and I go down a lot further in my Snatch than my CJ, so I get a little shock of pain at the bottom portion of the lift. It's just something I have to grit my teeth and deal with at the moment, but it's slowly getting better.

-Ace

Young&Hungry
10-09-09, 4:35 pm
My PRs are 250lbs power clean, 230lbs CJ, and 145lbs Snatch, at 200lbs bodyweight. I want to compete in the 94kg class, so I would like to gain just a few more pounds. The Snatch is really giving me problems because of an ankle injury I had a few months ago, and I go down a lot further in my Snatch than my CJ, so I get a little shock of pain at the bottom portion of the lift. It's just something I have to grit my teeth and deal with at the moment, but it's slowly getting better.

-Ace

Nice lifts. With the wrist thing, I forgot to mention it before, but I just do a little athletic tape around the wrists and that's it. Not much support, but it's just enough to take a little shock out of the bottom, yet leaves my flexibility be. I'm gonna do a meet just for fun in the 85K's in March. I'd like to snatch 250 and C&J 320+ for it, but I heard about some kid in Jersey whose like 19 snatching 300+ and C&Jing 400, WTF!!!

TigerAce01
10-09-09, 11:47 pm
Nice lifts. With the wrist thing, I forgot to mention it before, but I just do a little athletic tape around the wrists and that's it. Not much support, but it's just enough to take a little shock out of the bottom, yet leaves my flexibility be. I'm gonna do a meet just for fun in the 85K's in March. I'd like to snatch 250 and C&J 320+ for it, but I heard about some kid in Jersey whose like 19 snatching 300+ and C&Jing 400, WTF!!!

There are those freaks out there...future Olympians. That would be quite an accomplishment getting those lifts in a meet, that would be near junior national level Top 10. I love Oly lifting, and I just got into it a couple of months back, and so far my weights have increased at a steady rate, but I've been doing CrossFit at the same time, not really focusing on Oly lifts, doing them maybe twice a week. I'm going to concentrate solely on them from here on out, using Mike Stone's program... http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Weightlifting/BasicWeightLifting.html ...and it looks to be a solid program that I would like. It has taken me a while to find something that deals with the iron that I truly love. I like powerlifting, but I have pretty long limbs (6'1) which makes it difficult, and I never really like the idea of a single linear lift. I don't have the genetics for bodybuilding, so that's out. I love CrossFit, but I wasn't getting enough true strength and power out of it. Then as I was doing a 7 sets of 3 snatch day for CF, I found myself to be having a lot of fun. So I put in two permanent Oly days. My coach found me on one of these days and asked if he could train me for free...naturally I accepted. That led me to now, and I can't wait to compete. I haven't been this excited since my first swim meet as a freshman in high school haha

-Ace