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BSand
10-13-09, 10:54 am
Boys -- I need a little advice and knowledge from those of you who've been there. I'm commiting myself to eating like a hog and training heavy for the next 6 weeks to try to add some size. I'm sitting at 160 lbs (up from 150 three weeks ago), but I'm thinking that I'm adding more than just lean muscle. I'm taking in about 4,000 calories per day on workout days, and a little less on non-workout days (I drop the preworkout, during workout and post workout shakes on those days), so it's more like 3,300 cals on rest days. My entire diet is made up of protein shakes, waxy maize, lean meat, whole grains, and cottage cheese -- very little to zero simple carbs, sugar (excpet for first think in the morning and post workout) and other crap food. I'm training 3 days per week (4-5 exercises per workout), and only doing 4-5 sets of compound exercises for legs, chest, back and shoulders -- no isolation stuff, and no cardio.

Here are my questions --
-Is the fat gain normal for this type of routiene, or am I just eating too much?
-Or, should I just keep packing in the cals and the pounds and then shed any acquired fat later?
-Is the workout part of the problem -- meaning, am I doing enough? I think I am, because the workouts are hard and I feel like my body needs the extra day of rest per week to recover, but am I thinking correctly in how I'm training?

Let me know what y'all think.

intoodeep25
10-13-09, 11:06 am
ok. first off. your not eating too much. if you want to gain a significant amount of size, and you really want to get big, your gonna gain some fat. im not saying your gonna be a roly poly, and this isnt an excuse to eat junk. but yes, fat gain will happen, but major muscle gains will also happen. you might want to lift more than 3 times a week. you could try a 4 or 5 day split and do cardio on your off days to help keep the fat gains in check, but you have to expirement with this stuff on your own and find what works for YOU. personally i lift balls out 4 days a week with no cardio at the moment. i also eat 9 meals a day with only 2 of those being shakes. i eat so much food i want to puke most of my day. my calorie count shatters 4,000 and yes, ive gained some fat, but im gaining so much mass i couldnt care any less about the fat gain. do tons of research, play with your diet, find out how your body responds to certain foods and go from there. its all a process bro

LegendKillerJosh
10-13-09, 11:14 am
You gotta decide this for yourself. If you want to be a mass freak and be the biggest and strongest guy in your gym than ya fat gain is going to come with the muscle gains. If your goal is just to have a beach body or impress girls than cut back your gains to avoid fat.

BSand
10-13-09, 11:14 am
Cool -- thanks for the feedback. I'm just not sure what to expect, because I haven't been really committed to doing this until now, but I'm sure what you're saying is what it needs to be. And I was thinking that the three days per week just isn't enough, even with the kind of training that I'm doing, but I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks about this.

Little Z
10-13-09, 3:39 pm
Cool -- thanks for the feedback. I'm just not sure what to expect, because I haven't been really committed to doing this until now, but I'm sure what you're saying is what it needs to be. And I was thinking that the three days per week just isn't enough, even with the kind of training that I'm doing, but I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks about this.

post up what you would normally eat on a lifting day, and a day off.. each meal, just list it..

plain and simple, if your goals are to gain.. you need to eat..

BSand
10-14-09, 10:23 am
Thanks for taking the time to look this over. Here's my normal daily eating schedule:

6:00 AM- shake- 24g of whey and 40g of maize
8:00 AM- preworkout shake- 24g whey + 20g of oatmeal
8:30 AM- during workout- amino acid shake + simple carbs
9:30 AM- postworkout shake- 24g whey, 24g casein, 40g maize
11:00 AM- 2 whole wheat english muffins, 4tsb peanut butter
1:30 PM- 2 whole eggs, 3 whites, 1 cup plain oatmeal, 1 box raisins
3:30 PM- shake- 48g whey and 40g oatmeal
5:30 PM- dinner -- made up of 8oz of chicken, turkey, fish or red meat, 60g of pasta, rice or sweet potatoes, 1 cup of veggies or salad and 8 oz milk
9:30- shake- 60g combination whey/casein + 80g complex carb

It works out to be about 4,100 cals on training days and 3,300 on rest days. I'm at 160 lbs now.

On rest days I drop the 8:00, 8:30 and 9:30 shakes and move everything else up to fill in the time. I know it's a lot of shakes during the day, but my schedule doesn't allow for me to make and eat whole meals all day long. I'm thinking that these are the next best thing. Let me know what you think of this.

Aggression
10-14-09, 10:37 am
6:00 AM- shake- 24g of whey and 40g of maize
8:00 AM- preworkout shake- 24g whey + 20g of oatmeal
8:30 AM- during workout- amino acid shake + simple carbs
9:30 AM- postworkout shake- 24g whey, 24g casein, 40g maize
11:00 AM- 2 whole wheat english muffins, 4tsb peanut butter
1:30 PM- 2 whole eggs, 3 whites, 1 cup plain oatmeal, 1 box raisins
3:30 PM- shake- 48g whey and 40g oatmeal
5:30 PM- dinner -- made up of 8oz of chicken, turkey, fish or red meat, 60g of pasta, rice or sweet potatoes, 1 cup of veggies or salad and 8 oz milk
9:30- shake- 60g combination whey/casein + 80g complex carb


Why can't you eat regular meals? You have 8 'meals' during the day, plus an intra-workout drink. Out of those 8 meals, 5 of them are shakes. That's not good man. You need to eat more whole foods. And on your off days, you should still be having 7-8 meals. I suggest eating a whole food breakfast, a whole food meal 2, and maybe even another whole food meal at 3:30pm. Don't rely on shakes. Your body will take on a whole new look once you drop the shakes for whole foods. Save the shakes for postWO and pre-bed.

On Letting Go
10-14-09, 10:46 am
IMO, too much protein from whey/casein and not enough from whole food sources.

Just a few suggestions;

-At your 6am breakfast have 3-5 eggs with oats/toast and a glass of milk instead of whey & waxy maize.
-Add a whole food protein source to your 11am meal. Maybe 1 cup cottage cheese.
-At your 3:30pm meal eat meat (beef, chicken, fish) instead of whey. Use a different source than what you'll be having at your 5:30 dinner.
-At your 9:30pm shake, replace the whey with cottage cheese and swap out those 80g carbs with healthy fats. Use 2tbsp of natty peanut butter or EVOO.


Hope that helps a bit. Good luck.

OLG

BSand
10-14-09, 11:19 am
Thanks to both of you guys for your suggestions. I thought that "too many shakes" would be some of the feedback that I would get. I think I can definitely put food in for the 3:30 meal (maybe a sandwich on whole wheat bread) and add cottage cheese to the 11:00. I can also have cottage cheese at the end of the day. I used to do that every night, but then I started thinking that it wasn't enough before going to bed and not eating for 7 hours.

prowrestler
10-14-09, 11:22 am
post up what you would normally eat on a lifting day, and a day off.. each meal, just list it..

plain and simple, if your goals are to gain.. you need to eat..

yup, and exact amounts

"i have some chicken and rice"

wtf does that mean? i could have half a mcnugget and 4 grains of rice and itd fit the profile.

list the time, the amount of food and the food itself.

25 cals per pound and 1.5 protien per pound is a great base to start building mass.

Maccabee
10-14-09, 11:36 am
Boys -- I need a little advice and knowledge from those of you who've been there. I'm commiting myself to eating like a hog and training heavy for the next 6 weeks to try to add some size. I'm sitting at 160 lbs (up from 150 three weeks ago), but I'm thinking that I'm adding more than just lean muscle. I'm taking in about 4,000 calories per day on workout days, and a little less on non-workout days (I drop the preworkout, during workout and post workout shakes on those days), so it's more like 3,300 cals on rest days. My entire diet is made up of protein shakes, waxy maize, lean meat, whole grains, and cottage cheese -- very little to zero simple carbs, sugar (excpet for first think in the morning and post workout) and other crap food. I'm training 3 days per week (4-5 exercises per workout), and only doing 4-5 sets of compound exercises for legs, chest, back and shoulders -- no isolation stuff, and no cardio.

Here are my questions --
-Is the fat gain normal for this type of routiene, or am I just eating too much?
-Or, should I just keep packing in the cals and the pounds and then shed any acquired fat later?
-Is the workout part of the problem -- meaning, am I doing enough? I think I am, because the workouts are hard and I feel like my body needs the extra day of rest per week to recover, but am I thinking correctly in how I'm training?

Let me know what y'all think.

IMO,

Fat gain is always normal when bulking up, eventually its going to happen. Dont worry about it because you will get rid of it when you shred down. Dont let this be an excuse to explode into a fatass. When ever your on a bulking phase start out slow and increase your calories once you see that you stop gaining weight. If you start eating more food then you should be then most likely you will be overeating which is not healthy and you will gain a lot of fat. Use the mirror and scale to determine when to increase calories. Listen to your body. Keep a log of how much your consuming.

Since you said your doing compound exercises then your on the right track. Those are the exercises that are going to make you build some quality muscle. Your doing the right thing by building a solid foundation. Also, I would add in a little cardio for heart health. Maybe 20 mins right after your workout, but do it with low intensity.

Other than that we will be able to help you more if your post up your workout.

Also, dont just leave yourself with beef and whey. There are many benefits to eating eggs, fish, and chicken as well. You have to see for yourself. Eggs haave a complete amino acid profile. Fish has some healthy fats. Chicken is pretty easy for the body to digest. Take this into consideration.

Add healthy fats to your diet as well nuts, olive oil, mac nut oil, avacodoe. Eat vegetables and fruits as well.

By the way if the workouts are hard well then thats good. Its supposed to be hard. If you need another day for recovery then your doing the right thing by taking it. Listen to your body. Sleep when you need it. Eat when your hungry. Drink when your thirsty. Good luck.

BSand
10-14-09, 11:37 am
I'm coming in at right around 25 cals and 2g of protein per pound. I just think I need to redistribute some of the powder protein into whole food. And check out what I listed above -- I was pretty specific on the times and amounts that I eat.

Two of you guys mentioned eating a whole food meal first thing in the AM, but I had always thought that getting the whey and simple carbs in first thing was the important to stop the protein wasting from the night before. You guys disagree with that and think that the first AM whole food meal is better?

Aggression
10-14-09, 11:58 am
Two of you guys mentioned eating a whole food meal first thing in the AM, but I had always thought that getting the whey and simple carbs in first thing was the important to stop the protein wasting from the night before. You guys disagree with that and think that the first AM whole food meal is better?

In all the years of me doing this, I ALWAYS had a whole food breakfast. There may have been rare instances where I'm running late, or can't get to whole food, but these cases are few and far between.

On Letting Go
10-14-09, 12:00 pm
Two of you guys mentioned eating a whole food meal first thing in the AM, but I had always thought that getting the whey and simple carbs in first thing was the important to stop the protein wasting from the night before. You guys disagree with that and think that the first AM whole food meal is better?

Whole food is ALWAYS better. Dont let anyone tell you different.

OLG

BSand
10-14-09, 12:22 pm
Ok. I'll give the eggs/oats a shot first thing AM and see how it goes. Thanks again for your replies OLG and Ag.

Little Z
10-14-09, 1:28 pm
Definitely solid information from Aggression and OLG and the guys..

Anytime you can get whole food, thats what you want.. shakes are another supplement.. you want to supplement the nutrition you
can not take in.. meaning.. you want whole foods/protein 4-5 meals and then supplement with the shakes to make sure you hit your daily protein needs..

BSand
10-14-09, 2:04 pm
Great- thanks. It's great having all you guys out there to bounce stuff off of. In everyday life there are not too many people who can relate to this and who get it -- that's 'cause they're all in here. Thanks again everybody.

msktyshha
10-14-09, 9:17 pm
have this shake alreadi made the night b4 (6:00 AM- shake- 24g of whey and 40g of maize) and first thing when u wakeup in da morning drink it down and mayb instead of 40g maize get 20g. then prepare ur whole food breakfast. ur right first thing in the morning shud be something dat can b absorbed quickly into ur body since u were going thru a fast the whole night. Also u need the carbs right when u wakeup just to spike the insulin level. my first thing in the morning shake consists of 24g whey protein in skim milk and 2 tablespoon honey.

Dr.Platypus
10-14-09, 11:38 pm
im a big proponent of getting up in the middle of the night and sucking down a shake. I wake up to pee anyway so it isnt a bother for me, but i recomend it

Aggression
10-15-09, 8:42 am
im a big proponent of getting up in the middle of the night and sucking down a shake. I wake up to pee anyway so it isnt a bother for me, but i recomend it

I don't think its necessary to wake in the middle of the night just to eat. Actually, I feel its detrimental to the physique. However, if you wake up to piss, then I see no reason why you can't suck down a shake. Just don't set an alarm for the sole purpose of having that shake. If you wake up for other reasons, so be it. Personally, I leave a jar of natural PB next to my bed just in case I wake up in the middle of the night.

Dr.Platypus
10-15-09, 8:49 am
I don't think its necessary to wake in the middle of the night just to eat. Actually, I feel its detrimental to the physique. However, if you wake up to piss, then I see no reason why you can't suck down a shake. Just don't set an alarm for the sole purpose of having that shake. If you wake up for other reasons, so be it. Personally, I leave a jar of natural PB next to my bed just in case I wake up in the middle of the night.

i supposed it's only necessary if you have a metabolism like a jackrabit anyway