Tribulus dosing

[drag0590]

i was wondering if i can take all three of my tribulus pills at once instead of taking 3 spread out thru the day..does this mattter?

[msktyshha]

does tribulus even raise test levels??

[JasonG]

I think it makes more sense to spread it out if your gonna take more than one serving. I take 1000mg in the morning and my second 1000mg 12 hours later.

[JasonG]

does tribulus even raise test levels??

If they are already normal probably not. If they are low maybe, but it's unproven. It's cheap so why not? I use it on occasion, it's not a staple for me though.

[C.Coronato]

I was taking 5 N1T in the AM and 5 N1T at night before training. Thats a good amount of trib. So i would say yes you would be ok taking it together.

[msktyshha]

can tribulus elevate estrogen levels?

[On Letting Go]

First off, Trib hasnt been proven to do jack-shit.

Second... Anything that can raise test, can in turn, raise estrogen. The body always strives for equilibrium.

[GJN5002]

You have to make sure your trib has a standarized extract containing 10% Protodioscin or higher or else you are wasting your money.....even at that you may be wasting your money.

[IRBS]

Spend your money on milk, eggs, and red meat.

[ronald1919]

Personally I have always felt more aggressive when taking tribilus. Nothing major but DEFINETLY noticeable. I take 1-2 pills before workout ( universal trib), dont take it on off days.

[On Letting Go]

Personally I have always felt more aggressive when taking tribilus. Nothing major but DEFINETLY noticeable. I take 1-2 pills before workout ( universal trib), dont take it on off days.

Placebro

[msktyshha]

it says it contains 45%steroidal saponins. I seem to be getting weaker ever since I been on it and zma ...wierddd

[msktyshha]

and I don't get it a lot of people say it doesn't work and doesn't seem to work with me either...but why does every test booster has tribulus in it, even the UN sterol complex has tribulus in it.

[ronald1919]

Placebro

maybe, althought i was very skeptical while taking it. I wouldn't be so quick to write it off

[On Letting Go]

and I don't get it a lot of people say it doesn't work and doesn't seem to work with me either...but why does every test booster has tribulus in it, even the UN sterol complex has tribulus in it.

Simple... because people continue to buy it.

[msktyshha]

reason why i am doubting that it elevates estrogen is because 4 days after taking tribulus it took away the hardness in my chest and I am starting to notice some fat around the chest like under the nipples

[LVs]

My experiments and experiments of my buddy show, that tribulus itself really helps to raise test levels: bigger lifts, better appetite, more aggression, better overall feeling.
Some producers recommend to take it with meal, some on an empty stomach, but I prefere with meal - it works for me better. Effect is very noticeable at the beginning, but after it goes down so I just dosed it up.
I have used tribulus with 40% saponins, caps of 625 mg.
In very beginning even 1 caps per day worked, but after I had to increase it up for 2 and after up for 3 per day with meals. As I have heard before, after 1 moth of cycle the brake is needed. So I did.
My buddy wanted to check how Tribulus works in extreme doses. So just in 3 days or something he has raised his daily intake up to amount, which is an equivalent of 14 caps of 500 mg of 40% saponins tribulus (he has taken different supps with tribulus and one of them (european) was 80% saponins).
So after that, in just one or two days, he has started to feel really bad: body temperature has increased and he started to feel pain and extreme cold in his nipples. So the experiment was stopped after that. The next day he was OK.

[theharjmann]

tribulus works a hell of a lot for me.

i dont take the universal tribulus so im not going ot give names. but its the best one out there IMO...1 serving has 1000mg of tribulus terrestris in, of which 900mg are saponins.

i take a double dose...one first thing in the morning on an empty stomach...i then eat 20 mins later. and one in the middle of the night when i wake up to take a piss.

when im on it, i notice im a LOT hungrier. i have a bigger drive in the gym and i tend to add mass.

placebo? maybe. maybe not. im not a scientist. but when i take it, I add some good mass.

waste of money? no. i have a job and this tribulus is relatively cheap. a lot cheaper than steroids, alcohol or any of that other stuf i choose not to take (although alcohol is taken every 3-4 weeks to keep me sane lol)

just do what u gotta/wanna do to get big bro. all i can say though is make sure u research EVERYTHING before u choose to take it. dont be fooled by fancy labelling/marketing

peace

[NJC_Manhattan]

I should tell you at the onset that very little research has been done on tribulus outside of eastern Europe let alone without some association with a Bulgarian company called Sopharma. This makes getting access to independent studies in English very difficult because they are virtually non-existent. Most of the information I will use is provided by Sopharma of Bulgaria. Many of you know that this is the company the manufactures ***** This does not mean the data is necessarily false, it simply needs to be kept in mind when interpreting the data. Much of their research on tribulus terrestris was used to get patent approval as well as to get the product registered for distribution in the United States.

So why is there so little research done on herbal preparations with medicinal purposes here in the US? For those of you not from the U.S. or not familiar with the American Medical Model I will briefly explain. Here in the U.S. we practice what is sometimes called "rescue medicine". This refers to the fact that we put the overwhelming majority of our funds and man hours into discovering ways to save people from the brink of death. Regardless of what you here on the morning news, there is only a minute percentage of federal moneys spent on exploring preventative medicine. We claim bragging rights to a considerable number of medical innovations all designed to cheat fate (A.K.A. death). If nature has dealt you a bad hand you can count on the American Medical Association to do everything in their Hippocratic power to slip you an Ace or two under the operating table. More often than not this simply prolongs the suffering of the sick as they "enjoy" the sometimes involuntary treatment from medical doctors.

Recently there has been a push from the public to explore more holistic approaches to health. The popularity of "alternative medicine" has been growing every year for the past decade or more. Where are we getting this alternative medicine? From countries in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and of course the Far East. In countries such as China, Bulgaria and the former Soviet Union plants with medicinal properties are taken very seriously. Scientists involved in this research are just as respected as those involved in more traditional "western" medicine, unlike here in the U.S. where they are often labeled as quacks. OK, time to step down form my soap box. Let me finish by saying that things are changing here in the U.S. and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a dramatic paradigm shift in the next couple of years as herbal medicine shows itself profitable to pharmaceutical companies. After all, where do you think the exorbitant amounts of money spent on health care go? That’s right, into the pockets of those working in the health care and pharmaceutical industry.

The original purpose for tribulus terrestris extract was as a "tonic" to treat sexual dysfunction. In animal husbandry studies tribulus extract was shown to stimulate rutting behavior (i.e. attempting to score) in rams as well as boars. When the supplement Tribestan® was given to healthy men (Milanov, 1981) in a dose of 750 milligrams per day for five days, LH and testosterone were elevated 72% and 40% respectively. As you might expect, estradiol was also elevated. In fact estradiol was elevated by 81%! The increase in testosterone is obviously what all the fuss is about, nevertheless, you can’t ignore the fact that whenever you increase testosterone you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels. To put these changes in hormone levels into perspective, the reference range for testosterone in men is between 300 - 1,000 ng/dL. The subjects in this study started out with an average of 600 ng/dL and ended up with about 850 ng/dL. This is still well within the "normal" range for men. Estradiol on the other hand went from normal levels of about 76 pg/ml to significantly elevated levels of 137.5 pg/ml. This is well above normal levels which range from about 20-80 pg/ml in men.

So why haven’t people been reporting symptoms of elevated estrogens like bloating and gynecomastia from the use of tribulus products? My first response would be to say because they are not actually experiencing elevated estradiol levels due to the poor quality of most tribulus terrestris supplements. Lab tests (paid for by Sopharma) on several manufacturers of raw tribulus terrestris extract show that the majority don’t contain sufficient levels of protodioscine. Sopharma also went on to test various supplements said to contain tribulus terrestris extract and found most all of them to contain far less than that found in *****. Another important issue to point out is that tribulus terrestris as an herbal supplement is not the same thing as tribulus terrestris extract. Plain tribulus terrestris looks like any other herb that has been chopped up finely and dried, no different than the dried herbs you buy to cook with (Fig. 1). Tribulus terrestris extract looks much different. It is a reddish brown powder (Fig. 2).

Figure 1. Raw tribulus terrestris Figure 2. Tribulus terrestris extract
Figure 1. Raw tribulus terrestris Figure 2. Tribulus terrestris extract

Tribulus extract is extremely safe and appears to have no undesirable side effects. One of the reasons Tribulus extract doesn’t seem to have any apparent side effects in research subjects is because it doesn’t push testosterone above "upper" normal levels. The body is seemingly up-regulating aromatization to accommodate for the increase in LH and testosterone. No studies have been done to date to support this but from the changes in testosterone and estradiol respectively I would say there is a good chance this is in fact what is happening.

So to get the most out of tribulus extract I would suggest that you make sure you are in fact taking tribulus terrestris extract. Now that you know what it looks like you should have no problem finding a product that at least appears to be genuine. Although Chrysin has not exactly performed as expected, if you take enough of it you should be able to reduce the amount of aromatization caused by tribulus extract and hopefully increase testosterone levels slightly more. 1.5 -2 grams per day is a good place to start with Chrysin. Obviously an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex would be perfect if you have access to it. ½ tablet per day would be sufficient for the first week, then ½ tablet every other day for the duration of time using tribulus extract should be enough. You don’t want to completely inhibit aromatase because that will lead to a reduction in GH and IGF-1 levels. As a rule of thumb take as little Arimidex as you need to control symptoms.

Prohormones such as androstenediol and/or norandrostenediol should theoretically also be helpful when taking tribulus extract. To be more precise, tribulus should help prevent or postpone the reduction of LH caused by chronic prohormone intake. I am also assuming that you would be using prohormones to elevate testosterone levels not just to "help" your workouts. This usually requires higher doses of prohormones taken throughout the day and can be accompanied by the usual unwanted side effects. Keep in mind that we are talking about taking 750-1,500 milligrams of pure tribulus extract per day to be effective. Taking less will simply be a waste of money for most people. Upon discontinuation of the tribulus product you should taper your dose over a period of at least 2-3 weeks.

Summary of Tribulus terrestris extract

Compound:


Tribulus terrestris extract

NOTE: The following comments and recommendations are valid only with respect to tribulus products containing tribulus terrestris extract standardized for at least 45% steroidal saponins of the furostanol type. Of these saponins protodioscine should predominate.

Reported Benefit:


Marketed as a "testosterone booster", claims include increased Luteinizing Hormone (LH) release and thus increased testosterone production. Unfortunately claims about tribulus products usually insinuate that you will get steroid-like effects from this product. Even the most potent tribulus products will not approach the effectiveness of most synthetic androgens for building muscle.

Have controlled studies been performed?


Yes, but most research was done in Eastern Europe and was sponsored/produced by Sopharma, a manufacturer of the product. Their research shows tribulus terrestris extract to have a significant effect by increasing LH (~72%), testosterone(~40%), and estradiol(~80%).

Mechanism of action:


Tribulus Terrestris extract has been shown to stimulate LH release from the pituitary gland. It may also have some peripheral effects as manifested by increased pubic hair in some hypogonadal test subjects. It is speculated that the metabolites of protodioscine may also have mild androgenic properties. The exact mechanisms are still vague and current explanations are speculative at best.

Interaction with other nutrients?


No

Effective dose:


Effective doses used in clinical settings are 750-1500 milligrams per day.

NOTE: I refer to studies using *****. Other supplements with lower concentrations of active steroidal saponins would require larger doses to achieve the same effect.

Proper dosing schedule:


Take 3-4 times per day with meals. As the half-life of protodioscine is very low (~2 ½ hours), a more frequent dosing schedule might increase effectiveness.

NOTE: In order to have an effect on male fertility supplementation must continue for at least 90 days.

Toxicity?


None

Conditions where may be effective:


May be most effective at correcting a decline in LH pulsatile amplitude and/or frequency. Should be effective at returning testosterone to "normal" levels in situations where testosterone is abnormally low such as in chronic or acute hypogonadism, after a steroid cycle, while overtraining, with age associated declines in testosterone, and during extreme and/or prolonged dieting.

NOTE: Taking an aromatase inhibitor should significantly enhance the effectiveness of tribulus terrestris extract to elevate serum testosterone.

[Groundpounder88]

Great post NJC. I learned a lot from that.

[theharjmann]

nice one NJC.

however aromatoase inhibitors have been known to weaken joints

[On Letting Go]

You guys might not agree with this, but hear me out;

Aromatase Inhibition is done by means of hormonal modulation. In other words, you must take a HORMONAL supplement to achieve REAL results. (I realize some manufacturers offer 'Herbal' AI's, but we all know that shit does nothing.)

Most people take Trib and other herbal supps because they dont want to take the jump into hormonal supps that have the risks and health complications. So why in the hell would you want to take an herbal (Trib) and a hormonal AI?

IMO, in this case, youve already ventured into the world of hormonal supplements. So if youre looking for real (steroid-like) gains, you might as well use PH's/roids (as safely as possible) because you certainly arent going to get what youre looking for from trib plus an AI.