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msktyshha
11-16-09, 10:16 pm
I am gaining too much fat from my current diet. iam eating 3500 cals a day with 40% protein 40% carbs and 20% fat. main sources are chicken, beef, tuna, eggs, oats, rice, bread, milk, whey, fish oil, olive oil. My goal is to keep making gains but stop the fat gain or if possible shed some. To be safe I am thinking about starting out with changing my ratios around for carbs and fat. Iam gonna go with 40 protein 40 fat and 20 carbs. what do you guys think?

Pizzalamp
11-16-09, 10:22 pm
why not just eat a little less at each meal
and increase cardio a bt

msktyshha
11-16-09, 10:23 pm
but I am so worried man, what if I stop making gains the way I am now by eating less and throwing that evil cardio in

Kryptonite
11-16-09, 10:44 pm
Dude, I'm having the same problem... I want to stay lean, but I also want to get big! It seems like we can have only one or the other. We get size sacrificing a defined look and we get a defined look sacrificing some size. Life sucks... Haha

I'm sure there's a way of hitting it right in center, but it wouldn't be so awsome seeing that you would SLOWLY lose weight and make gains even SLOWER.

Maybe it's for the best putting on massive amounts of size and sacrificing a small portion of it to become shredded again?

Fleadom4all
11-16-09, 10:49 pm
That seems to be the way to do it, I just started a clean bulk and I am definitely noticing the gains but I am also seeing the fat slowly going up to, its a sacrifice, but I'm willing to do it till I start cutting again.

Kryptonite
11-16-09, 11:21 pm
That seems to be the way to do it, I just started a clean bulk and I am definitely noticing the gains but I am also seeing the fat slowly going up to, its a sacrifice, but I'm willing to do it till I start cutting again.

And then the horrible cycle starts all over again...

It'll be worth it in the end though.

I hope...

stumblin54
11-17-09, 2:01 am
Unless you're a newbie, your gains will be veeery slow if you're trying to gain strength/muscle mass while cutting fat at the same time. That being said, just because you're trying to gain mass doesn't you have to eat like slob and gain a bunch of fat (not saying you are, but a lot of people use this as an excuse to eat with no brain). Eat a lot but eat smart while doing so and you'll keep the fat gain to a minimum. Don't skip cardio either, you should be doing it at least three times per week for 30 minutes each time year round.

Stumblin

msktyshha
11-17-09, 9:50 am
Unless you're a newbie, your gains will be veeery slow if you're trying to gain strength/muscle mass while cutting fat at the same time. That being said, just because you're trying to gain mass doesn't you have to eat like slob and gain a bunch of fat (not saying you are, but a lot of people use this as an excuse to eat with no brain). Eat a lot but eat smart while doing so and you'll keep the fat gain to a minimum. Don't skip cardio either, you should be doing it at least three times per week for 30 minutes each time year round.

Stumblin

very true what you said, I was extremely lean and was making good gains in the beginning but all the sudden I don't know what happened. I started gaining fat and I don't like it. now about the cardio, I am doing zero cardio, I am scared of cardio. I was doing cardio 2 times a week on a bike for only 30 mins and felt as if I am losing muscle.

stumblin54
11-17-09, 11:58 am
You "felt" as if you were losing muscle? Listen, does it make sense to cut out cardio workouts if you're gaining too much fat? Didn't think so. Always do your cardio. I went back and forth on this for too long before realizing that is essential whether cutting, bulking, maintaining, whatever. You're not losing muscle, you losing fat so you become smaller and more shredded/toned as a result. This is a consequence of performing cardio while eating strict, and a positive one at that.

Stumblin

HatemElAkkad
11-17-09, 12:18 pm
I am gaining too much fat from my current diet. iam eating 3500 cals a day with 40% protein 40% carbs and 20% fat. main sources are chicken, beef, tuna, eggs, oats, rice, bread, milk, whey, fish oil, olive oil. My goal is to keep making gains but stop the fat gain or if possible shed some. To be safe I am thinking about starting out with changing my ratios around for carbs and fat. Iam gonna go with 40 protein 40 fat and 20 carbs. what do you guys think?

dude, why dont you try cycling your simple and complex carbs, along with ur fats? like low carb and low fat days, medium, high and so on...this process makes you burn extra fat while building muscle....now this probably, PROBABLY, depending on your body, wont make you burn additional body fat and build muscle...but it might....
but it will greatly minimize fat accumulation and maximize muscle building...

i also suggest incorporating 2-4 cardio sessions, with one or two HIT sessions out of the 3 or 4......

other than that, eat clean, grilled stuff, no sauces fats, all that stuff....skimmed milk...yadda yadda

or try adding cardio to your workouts and give that a shot see how it's gonna go!!

for one thing it will kick your metabolism, which means more food, and in ur case since ur bulking, (u are bulking up right?), more protein

all the best dude, good luck! hope that helps out let me know if i could help out any further

eat, train, sleep!!

msktyshha
11-17-09, 12:29 pm
well I'll start doing cardio again now. I am thinking only at breakfast and lunch I'll get some good amount of carbs also since my training is an hour later after breakfast. rest of the four meals it's 40 pro 40 fats 20 carbs. kinda like a cycling of carbs n fats in a day. theres one thing i noticed that I don't really get a bloated look when I am on high fat, why is it so. It might sound a bit stupid but where do the Fat from our diet ends up in the body. like carbs go for energy or stored as fat, but what happens to the fats from our diet.

Bat_Man
11-17-09, 12:32 pm
I am gaining too much fat from my current diet. iam eating 3500 cals a day with 40% protein 40% carbs and 20% fat. main sources are chicken, beef, tuna, eggs, oats, rice, bread, milk, whey, fish oil, olive oil. My goal is to keep making gains but stop the fat gain or if possible shed some. To be safe I am thinking about starting out with changing my ratios around for carbs and fat. Iam gonna go with 40 protein 40 fat and 20 carbs. what do you guys think?

I have to agree that cardio will help you stay a little leaner. Another trick is to be more careful with your carb consumption so that you minimize your fat gains. Im not saying to eat less carbs but rather eat larger amounts of carbs at the right time of the day:
Eat 15-20% of your carbs at breakfast
Eat 25% of your carbs preworkout
Eat 25 % of your carbs post workout

That leaves you with 30-35% divided over your 3 other meals.
Also divide your protein and fat intake evenly throughout the day.
This has helped me alot over the last six months and i have managed to make good gains while staying lean. Hope this helps

stumblin54
11-17-09, 3:40 pm
It might sound a bit stupid but where do the Fat from our diet ends up in the body. like carbs go for energy or stored as fat, but what happens to the fats from our diet.

Our bodies burn fat throughout the day as fuel for energy, except right after eating a meal with carbs where those carbs will be burned off and then we will eventually get back to burning more fats.

Stumblin

msktyshha
11-17-09, 10:45 pm
I am not talking about the fat in our bodies, I am talking about the fat from our diets. Like lets say I had some oats, they have carbs, those carbs willl go in my body and be used for energy or be stored. Now lets say I had almonds, they contain fat, so whats gonna happen to the fat that I consumed in from the almond source.

I just hate the word Fat. I mean its so confusing sometimes, fat that is stored in our body and fat we are consuming from food. Does eating fat make you fat?

Kryptonite
11-17-09, 11:13 pm
I am not talking about the fat in our bodies, I am talking about the fat from our diets. Like lets say I had some oats, they have carbs, those carbs willl go in my body and be used for energy or be stored. Now lets say I had almonds, they contain fat, so whats gonna happen to the fat that I consumed in from the almond source.

I just hate the word Fat. I mean its so confusing sometimes, fat that is stored in our body and fat we are consuming from food. Does eating fat make you fat?

Reread this... He says it. The carbs from the oatmeal will be burned for energy then when they're gone the fat will be burnt for anergy (the fat from the oatmeal and almonds.)


Our bodies burn fat throughout the day as fuel for energy, except right after eating a meal with carbs where those carbs will be burned off and then we will eventually get back to burning more fats.

Stumblin

And fat does NOT make you fat... Read this article.

http://animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?section=diet&id=401

I eat over 120g of fat per day... And I'm barely gaining weight. But 80% of the total fat is from oatmeal, peanut butter, olive oil, flax seeds, and almonds.

adidas
11-18-09, 5:51 am
here try reading this:

The Truth About Bulking (http://www.tmuscle.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html)

msktyshha
11-18-09, 1:47 pm
here try reading this:

The Truth About Bulking (http://www.tmuscle.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html)

wow a pretty good article there, so bulking and then cutting is really not the way to go? any contradictions guys?? I wanna know more opinions on this subject, very interesting. also pleas elaborate this "You should go down to 10% then gradually increase your nutritional intake until you reach a point where you're gaining 1.5 to 2 pounds per month. This will allow you to gain muscle at your optimal rate while staying at 10%." Wouldn't this be very hard ??

The_Legacy
11-18-09, 2:20 pm
If you were scared about losing muscle, just do cardio on a seperate day. You only have to do it once or twice a week. I dread cradio, but once you do it a couple of times it's not that bad.

msktyshha
11-18-09, 2:34 pm
If you were scared about losing muscle, just do cardio on a seperate day. You only have to do it once or twice a week. I dread cradio, but once you do it a couple of times it's not that bad.

Yeah just started doing 15 min cardio at the end of my back day today, it felt good. I am thinking I'll do cardio two days a week only, and I am starting off with 15 mins on a stationary bike. I think it's important to do cardio cause all this time I wasn't doing cardio and I was running out of breath and like breathing heavy during my weight sessions. I guess cardios gonna be good for my breathing too.

GJN5002
11-18-09, 2:50 pm
Dont worry about losing muscle from cardio. 30 min a few times a week will be nothing but beneficial. You will do more harm missing meals than you will doing cardio as far as muscle loss.

msktyshha
11-18-09, 8:29 pm
The body eats up muscles for energy right, so it eats up muscles when it has no source of energy?? like if their are no carbs and no fats left in our body then it eats up muscles?

Kryptonite
11-18-09, 9:47 pm
The body eats up muscles for energy right, so it eats up muscles when it has no source of energy?? like if their are no carbs and no fats left in our body then it eats up muscles?

Dude... I think you need to relax about this stuff. But...

Your body will change the carbs you eat into sugar, the 1st source of energy for your body. The excess sugar your body does not absorb will be stored as body fat.

The 2nd source of energy is fats (aswell as body fat) which will be absorbed after much of the carbs have been digested. The excess nutrients from the the fat will also be stored as body fat.

Then the 3rd source will be proteins. This includes YOUR proteins. The one's that make up your muscles.

If you want to lose weight fast you WILL lose some mass and strength. If you don't mind losing weight slowly, then do it! You will still make muscle gains even though you are losing body fat in the process.

I hope that helps...

stumblin54
11-19-09, 2:09 am
The body eats up muscles for energy right, so it eats up muscles when it has no source of energy?? like if their are no carbs and no fats left in our body then it eats up muscles?

Listen msktyshha, you're about to make the mistake that most beginner/novice lifters and bodybuilders make, and it's the exact reason they never actually become big and (more importantly) strong. If you get too caught up in the science, the complicated stuff of this lifestyle, I can say with 98% confidence that you will NOT ever be big or strong. To become big and strong, you've got to keep this SIMPLE. You have to know that you will gain a little bit of fat in order to be in the optimal muscle building state. The optimal state for building muscle is the anabolic state, and to be anabolic you have to be in a caloric surplus, or, eating ABOVE your maintenance. This is something every serious bodybuilder realizes, maybe goes back and forth on for a bit, but in the end learns to deal with. With that being said, and as I've stated before, this is not a reason to eat whatever you want and become a fat, sloppy piece of shit who cannot even bench or Godforbid squat his own weight. You have to eat big but also SMART at the same time. Eat foods that you know won't make you fat (like the ones that you know how they actually arrived on your plate, this means no twinkies...these are called nutritious foods), and if you are gaining fat too fast (let's say in excess of 2lbs. per week), then eat a little less and/or UP THE CARDIO. As Lee Priest once said, "this is not rocket science..." If you overcomplicate this and turn it into rocket science, you will be out of the game before you know it. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but heed my advice, or get out now. A few years down the road, if you actually take to heart what I've just written, you will be one very strong and very large man.

Stumblin

msktyshha
11-19-09, 7:44 am
Listen msktyshha, you're about to make the mistake that most beginner/novice lifters and bodybuilders make, and it's the exact reason they never actually become big and (more importantly) strong. If you get too caught up in the science, the complicated stuff of this lifestyle, I can say with 98% confidence that you will NOT ever be big or strong. To become big and strong, you've got to keep this SIMPLE. You have to know that you will gain a little bit of fat in order to be in the optimal muscle building state. The optimal state for building muscle is the anabolic state, and to be anabolic you have to be in a caloric surplus, or, eating ABOVE your maintenance. This is something every serious bodybuilder realizes, maybe goes back and forth on for a bit, but in the end learns to deal with. With that being said, and as I've stated before, this is not a reason to eat whatever you want and become a fat, sloppy piece of shit who cannot even bench or Godforbid squat his own weight. You have to eat big but also SMART at the same time. Eat foods that you know won't make you fat (like the ones that you know how they actually arrived on your plate, this means no twinkies...these are called nutritious foods), and if you are gaining fat too fast (let's say in excess of 2lbs. per week), then eat a little less and/or UP THE CARDIO. As Lee Priest once said, "this is not rocket science..." If you overcomplicate this and turn it into rocket science, you will be out of the game before you know it. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but heed my advice, or get out now. A few years down the road, if you actually take to heart what I've just written, you will be one very strong and very large man.

Stumblin

this is why i joined animalpak....thanx stumblin :-)

Kryptonite
11-19-09, 7:31 pm
Listen msktyshha, you're about to make the mistake that most beginner/novice lifters and bodybuilders make, and it's the exact reason they never actually become big and (more importantly) strong. If you get too caught up in the science, the complicated stuff of this lifestyle, I can say with 98% confidence that you will NOT ever be big or strong. To become big and strong, you've got to keep this SIMPLE. You have to know that you will gain a little bit of fat in order to be in the optimal muscle building state. The optimal state for building muscle is the anabolic state, and to be anabolic you have to be in a caloric surplus, or, eating ABOVE your maintenance. This is something every serious bodybuilder realizes, maybe goes back and forth on for a bit, but in the end learns to deal with. With that being said, and as I've stated before, this is not a reason to eat whatever you want and become a fat, sloppy piece of shit who cannot even bench or Godforbid squat his own weight. You have to eat big but also SMART at the same time. Eat foods that you know won't make you fat (like the ones that you know how they actually arrived on your plate, this means no twinkies...these are called nutritious foods), and if you are gaining fat too fast (let's say in excess of 2lbs. per week), then eat a little less and/or UP THE CARDIO. As Lee Priest once said, "this is not rocket science..." If you overcomplicate this and turn it into rocket science, you will be out of the game before you know it. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but heed my advice, or get out now. A few years down the road, if you actually take to heart what I've just written, you will be one very strong and very large man.

Stumblin

Bro, that was VERY well put. I'm sure Msktyshha got a lot out of that because I got a lot out of that also.

By the way I wanted to thank you again for your posts on my diet thread a little while back. I made some pretty insane gains that nobody believes... 10 lbs in a little over 2 weeks. I feel great. Heavier and warmer. I guess, I put some needed fat on.

Talk to ya' later.

msktyshha
11-23-09, 9:43 pm
ok so I dropped down my carbs from 350g per day to 175g per day for a week now and in the gym I noticed I lost some strength. Like in bench I lost 10-20 lbs. is that normal?

Kryptonite
11-23-09, 10:01 pm
ok so I dropped down my carbs from 350g per day to 175g per day for a week now and in the gym I noticed I lost some strength. Like in bench I lost 10-20 lbs. is that normal?

Not at all. I experienced the same thing from eating too little. I suggest you increase your caloric intake ASAP. That's what I did and I saved my lifts before it was too late. Eat carbs. I eat about 100g fat, 300g protein, and 500g carbs every day. I'm bulking, but I still stay quite lean.

The_Legacy
11-23-09, 11:06 pm
I find if I wanna drop the weight, all I need to do it just subsitute one meat meal with a shake and just drop the carbs, I'm a little bit weaker but not alot. If you stay lean all year round it won't be hard to drop the fat when it comes to cutting time.


I.E. Clean Bulk during your offseason, then subsitute your meat for leaner meats and shakes and drop some carbs, that simple.

Kryptonite
11-23-09, 11:25 pm
I find if I wanna drop the weight, all I need to do it just subsitute one meat meal with a shake and just drop the carbs, I'm a little bit weaker but not alot. If you stay lean all year round it won't be hard to drop the fat when it comes to cutting time.


I.E. Clean Bulk during your offseason, then subsitute your meat for leaner meats and shakes and drop some carbs, that simple.

I agree with your example, but not your advice.