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Naturally Huge
12-19-09, 7:00 pm
In the gyms I go to around my area I'm pretty familiar with who the natural bodybuilders are and those on the juice, due to the fact that those on the juice shrink and expand depending on whether they're off or on cycle. This is not a post about natural vs. roids, but just an observation in the gyms in my area.
There seems to be a growing epidemic around here with the boys on the juice to train with light weights and just go for a pump. I observe these individuals using such pathetic weights for all their sets and they hardly break a sweat. Hell, the only time I use such poundages is to warm-up with before I get to the serious weights! I think to myself that there is no way those boys get that big and hard by using such pussy-ass weight. It's kind of frustrating to me and those of us who choose not to use because we bust our balls in the fuckin' gym and the kitchen to put on even one or two pounds and these bastards don't even have the mentality or toughness to train heavy and intense. I don't give a shit about who's using or who's not, but if one is in the gym lookin' to be a bodybuilder at least one should grow some damn nuts and train like one and quit walkin' around like they're the shit after doing a set of cable crossovers with 15 pounds for 20 reps!
I guess I've been around the gym scene to see it turn from those who are serious bodybuilders and powerlifters where everybody knows each other and is basically family to a damn meat market with a bunch of pretty boys who just train chest and arms and walk around on pencils for legs.

G Diesel
12-19-09, 7:14 pm
Take pride in your consistency and authenticity my brother... You built your house with big ass bricks and when the winds blows, it ain't going no where.

Heavy weights and real eating done consistently for years is what builds a functional, thick, enduring physique. Let the pretty boys have their day in the sun and be proud of the fact that you'll out last em all. You know the real deal and eventually they'll know as well.

Peace, G

calcaneous
12-19-09, 7:55 pm
If what they are doing is making them grow, then who are you to judge their routine? They might be saying the exact think about you and your heavy weights.

Thats why i love the iron game, everyone brings something different to the table.

Menace
12-19-09, 11:17 pm
Take pride in your consistency and authenticity my brother... You built your house with big ass bricks and when the winds blows, it ain't going no where.

Heavy weights and real eating done consistently for years is what builds a functional, thick, enduring physique. Let the pretty boys have their day in the sun and be proud of the fact that you'll out last em all. You know the real deal and eventually they'll know as well.

Peace, G

excellent post! Be true to who you are, being natural we have to work much harder! You should be proud of that!

Muscleguy93
12-19-09, 11:49 pm
If what they are doing is making them grow, then who are you to judge their routine? They might be saying the exact think about you and your heavy weights.

Thats why i love the iron game, everyone brings something different to the table.

Chill man. True you can't judge, but you never gonna get mr.O huge without using big weight, and that's what he means and somthing I agree to.

MELTDOWN
12-20-09, 12:05 am
Take pride in your consistency and authenticity my brother... You built your house with big ass bricks and when the winds blows, it ain't going no where.

Heavy weights and real eating done consistently for years is what builds a functional, thick, enduring physique. Let the pretty boys have their day in the sun and be proud of the fact that you'll out last em all. You know the real deal and eventually they'll know as well.

Peace, G

Exactly G. My pops always used to ask me..."Do you wanna be a grease fire in the skillet, or ya wanna be the skillet? That fire burns bright for a short time, but the skillet always remains when that flash fire burns out !! "......
Carry On !!!

Alk
12-20-09, 2:23 pm
If what they are doing is making them grow, then who are you to judge their routine? They might be saying the exact think about you and your heavy weights.

Exactly, why knock on something that might work for them, but not you? You gotta change shit up anyway, going heavy all the time takes its toll on the body.


Chill man. True you can't judge, but you never gonna get mr.O huge without using big weight, and that's what he means and somthing I agree to.

Weight doesn't mean anything, it's all about reps and squeezing your muscles.

And you will never get Mr.O without medicine either, just sayin.

Also: not everyone on juice wants to compete. Some people do it just to look good in the mirror, not on stage.

TigerAce01
12-20-09, 2:37 pm
The truth of the matter is that no one has the same goals, values, or moral standards. While I have vowed to never use illegal performance enhancement because I believe it makes my lifts illegitimate, others do not believe the same thing...it is simply a tool for them. Just as someone who just wants big arms, and has no desire to compete, will shoot up, compared to the natural bodybuilder who looks down on these practices, and works hard to create a complete physique. I hate the fact that others improve more quickly than I because of their androgen use...but I grit my teeth and do my own shit. As G said in one of my favorite DOAM entries...you can't place your dreams on another's shoulders.

-Ace

prowrestler
12-20-09, 3:38 pm
if he is bigger and in better shape then you, he is a better bodybuilder then you regardless of how or why.

just cause you outlift someone, doesn't mean your more "hardcore" then them. no bodybuilding judge gives a shit about the fact you warm up with the next guys max's.


2 choices from what i see

1: complain why he is bigger and point the easy "steroid finger" in his direction. good way to justify why he is better then you right?
2: shut up, continue to bust your balls and do what it takes to be the best.

BigDubbDiesel
12-20-09, 5:07 pm
Can't be in competition with anyone but yourself when you hit the weights, when i get in there i leave my ego at the door and dont give a fuck what the guy next to me is putting up. My mentality is "to each his own"...but i know 20 years from now when i'm still cock diesel and still in great health, that the hard work i put in naturally paid off.

eat big and train hard. -Dubb

ironshaolin
12-20-09, 7:53 pm
Weight doesn't mean anything, it's all about reps and squeezing your muscles.

.

I've seen alot of 165lb people in the gym talk about this. And, what I do notice, is the really big guys who say you don't need heavy ass weights to get big, are saying this in regards to doing incline benches with 315 for 10-15 reps. That 315 is getting them 10-15 reps, I bet if they dropped into the 3-5 range they would be using 405. Its the higher rep allowance that makes them say itsa "light weight". Fact of the matter is, Nobody got huge arms from curling 20lb dumbells, I don't care how many reps you do or how much you squeeze those muscles.

dannynb
12-20-09, 9:12 pm
When it comes to the gym I just tell my boys and my clients a few simple rules:

1. Check your ego at the door
2. Give it your all
3. Don't get caught up watching everyone else, focus on your own workouts

BigDubbDiesel
12-20-09, 9:53 pm
When it comes to the gym I just tell my boys and my clients a few simple rules:

1. Check your ego at the door
2. Give it your all
3. Don't get caught up watching everyone else, focus on your own workouts

amen brother.

JasonG
12-21-09, 12:26 am
When it comes to the gym I just tell my boys and my clients a few simple rules:

1. Check your ego at the door
2. Give it your all
3. Don't get caught up watching everyone else, focus on your own workouts

Can't go wrong with those.
Another thing, maybe they are using periodization with their training and throttling back at the moment. Regardless who cares what they do. "Meds" don't get you huge without a lot of work so maybe you can learn from them or just do your own thing and care less about their accomplishments and worry about your own pr's and image.

nateisw
12-21-09, 12:46 am
I can see where you're coming from...I get kind of annoyed by those guys too. My old gym had a members only push/pull competition once a year. Last time I entered (2008) I came in second place. Everyone knew that the guy who came in first place was on steroids, so I didn't mind being the strongest steroid-free lifter in the event.

BCent
12-21-09, 12:59 am
just gotta comment about what was said with the 315 lbs being light weight for some versus heavy for others. I mean the way i see it.. everyone has to start somewhere, so sure the "beach guys" might be just doing benches and curls with what is perceived to some to be light weight, but
A) think of how many lifters start off as just recreational "beach muscle" type lifters
B) consider that the weight, though light to some, may be challenging to them, thus sparking muscle growth.

I guarantee that the guys who incline 315 for ten didnt just decide to get under the bar one day and press out 315, they started at a lowly 135 or less, just like the rest of us.

J-Dawg
12-21-09, 10:01 am
Take pride in your consistency and authenticity my brother... You built your house with big ass bricks and when the winds blows, it ain't going no where.

Heavy weights and real eating done consistently for years is what builds a functional, thick, enduring physique. Let the pretty boys have their day in the sun and be proud of the fact that you'll out last em all. You know the real deal and eventually they'll know as well.

Peace, G

Well said G. In the end, the consistency of hammering heavy weights and following the right diet is key for sustained results. In every walk of life, there's always someone looking for a short cut. Taking the short cut may work sometimes (it will appear to work) but long term, short cuts never make the winner.

mritter3
12-21-09, 10:05 am
Well said G. In the end, the consistency of hammering heavy weights and following the right diet is key for sustained results. In every walk of life, there's always someone looking for a short cut. Taking the short cut may work sometimes (it will appear to work) but long term, short cuts never make the winner.

gotta agree 100%. well said.

7
12-21-09, 10:38 am
Well said G. In the end, the consistency of hammering heavy weights and following the right diet is key for sustained results. In every walk of life, there's always someone looking for a short cut. Taking the short cut may work sometimes (it will appear to work) but long term, short cuts never make the winner.

Shortcuts? I don't know. Does the use of drugs really constitute a "shortcut" as you seem to be implying? If so, so many pros across so many sports are looking for a shortcut. If you don't train as hard as someone else, is that a shortcut? Everyone has different goals. Some dream of becoming a Mr. O competitor. Some dream of just becoming a competitive bodybuilder and standing in the lights, on stage. Some don't don't care and just want to look good for beach season. What's wrong with that? Who am I to say that one's man's goal is no less valid than another's?

J-Dawg
12-21-09, 11:02 am
Shortcuts? I don't know. Does the use of drugs really constitute a "shortcut" as you seem to be implying? If so, so many pros across so many sports are looking for a shortcut. If you don't train as hard as someone else, is that a shortcut? Everyone has different goals. Some dream of becoming a Mr. O competitor. Some dream of just becoming a competitive bodybuilder and standing in the lights, on stage. Some don't don't care and just want to look good for beach season. What's wrong with that? Who am I to say that one's man's goal is no less valid than another's?

What then would be your definition of "shortcut" when you remove hard work and diet as I had mentioned above for sustained results? Even though everyone has different goals, without hard work and diet, using drugs alone with a shoddy workout routine and poor diet imho, is a "shortcut". I think just b/c someone doesn't understand what hard work is or doesn't care about it, doesn't mean it's then not a "shortcut". Gotta call a spade a spade. Why should we accept anything less?

G Diesel
12-21-09, 11:14 am
Shortcuts? I don't know. Does the use of drugs really constitute a "shortcut" as you seem to be implying? If so, so many pros across so many sports are looking for a shortcut. If you don't train as hard as someone else, is that a shortcut? Everyone has different goals. Some dream of becoming a Mr. O competitor. Some dream of just becoming a competitive bodybuilder and standing in the lights, on stage. Some don't don't care and just want to look good for beach season. What's wrong with that? Who am I to say that one's man's goal is no less valid than another's?

I don't think J is too far out there to state that the utilization of bbing drugs for very terrestrial and mundane purposes while shunning a proper training and nutrition protocol is something of a "shortcut". Live and let live, different strokes and all that... But there is something to be said for paying dues and doing it right.

Peace, G

7
12-21-09, 11:17 am
I don't think J is too far out there to state that the utilization of bbing drugs for very terrestrial and mundane purposes while shunning a proper training and nutrition protocol is something of a "shortcut". Live and let live, different strokes and all that... But there is something to be said for paying dues and doing it right.

Peace, G

Yes, but who gets to decide what is "terrestrial" and "mundane"? You? J-Dawg? And besides, who ever said the people who do it "shun" "proper" (however you define "proper") training and nutrition? None of us can know what they do and don't do, so why is everyone making assumptions here? What is this thread really about? I think it's about people trying to say who can and can't legitimately use drugs – and for what ends.

JasonG
12-21-09, 4:51 pm
I understand what you J-Dog and G are trying to get across and I agree, but I think the misguided folks who are looking for a "short cut" and can't even pay their dues in the kitchen or gym are going to be disappointed. So is it a short cut really? I know I sound like I'm defending this but it's not the case. I just know it's embedded in our sport especially at the national and pro level and I don't want to kid myself with some sort of unattainable asspiration with how I choose to live.

G Diesel
12-21-09, 5:02 pm
I understand what you J-Dog and G are trying to get across and I agree, but I think the misguided folks who are looking for a "short cut" and can't even pay their dues in the kitchen or gym are going to be disappointed. So is it a short cut really? I know I sound like I'm defending this but it's not the case. I just know it's embedded in our sport especially at the national and pro level and I don't want to kid myself with some sort of unattainable asspiration with how I choose to live.

No it isn't really a short cut I guess... In fact it is just an incomplete equation and a recipe for mediocre results, especially when projected to any length down the road. I'm all for each of us to do what we do to the best of our abilities and according to the terms we find most suitable for ourselves personally. Just don't half ass it. Whether your motivation is good and sound and pure really depends on your own individual world view.

Peace, G

GJN5002
12-21-09, 5:19 pm
G, I like the post but I think what you need to clarify is that the guys saucing and lifting little weights are guys who are probably lifting to pick up chicks and look good in the club. The guys juicing and wrecking the place are the guys who are aware of what they are doing.

G Diesel
12-21-09, 5:27 pm
G, I like the post but I think what you need to clarify is that the guys saucing and lifting little weights are guys who are probably lifting to pick up chicks and look good in the club. The guys juicing and wrecking the place are the guys who are aware of what they are doing.

Exactly man... It is all a matter of not leaving out the most important aspects of the equation. Hard training and proper nutrition. If you have those in line and have intelligent, reasonable clearly delineated goals, you are justified in making whatever other decisions you choose and no one should have the right to tell you otherwise.

Peace, G

J-DOG
12-21-09, 5:30 pm
if he is bigger and in better shape then you, he is a better bodybuilder then you regardless of how or why.

just cause you outlift someone, doesn't mean your more "hardcore" then them. no bodybuilding judge gives a shit about the fact you warm up with the next guys max's.


2 choices from what i see

1: complain why he is bigger and point the easy "steroid finger" in his direction. good way to justify why he is better then you right?
2: shut up, continue to bust your balls and do what it takes to be the best.


I have to agree with PW on this. Just get in there and do your thing bro and be the best damn bodybuilder that you can be! It doesnt matter what other guys/gals int the gym are doing as long as you are progressing with your physique and ultimately achieving your goals.

Just because i choose not to go down that path of AS that is my own choice and if someone else does then more power to them. We all have different goals that we want to achieve and the route that they take to get them will be different for everybody. So give support to all your fellow Animals and gym goers because they are in this game for their own personal reasons and who are we to tell them what is the right and wrong way for them.

We are a unique breed of individual us Animals and its hard enough to maintain the neccesary focus with so many other people and temptations trying to lead you off the path.

So my point is i think.......stay focused on what you need to do to get where you want to go and if someone asks for advice on something then help the brutha out.


JD

IronWilson
12-21-09, 5:45 pm
If some people on this forum would stop trying to be heroes and just listen to what people are saying, you might actually be able to have a decent conversation.

You know that this guy is not saying that "lighter weight=pussy" or anything like that. So why do you feel the need to comment? This is basically a discussion on how he has increasingly been seeing people on juice that are not dedicated.

But some people want to take the statement at face value. Everyone just wants to be right and wants to be the hero that told this guy how it is and be praised by the good brahs of the forvm.

It is the internet and no one gives a flying fartsicle if you made a blanket statement or not!

We're not going to be able to have any conversation at all if some of you people don't stop being smartasses and correcting every little statement to try to make someone else look like a jackass and make yourself feel better.

7
12-21-09, 5:46 pm
No it isn't really a short cut I guess... In fact it is just an incomplete equation and a recipe for mediocre results, especially when projected to any length down the road. I'm all for each of us to do what we do to the best of our abilities and according to the terms we find most suitable for ourselves personally. Just don't half ass it. Whether your motivation is good and sound and pure really depends on your own individual world view.

Peace, G


Exactly man... It is all a matter of not leaving out the most important aspects of the equation. Hard training and proper nutrition. If you have those in line and have intelligent, reasonable clearly delineated goals, you are justified in making whatever other decisions you choose and no one should have the right to tell you otherwise.

Peace, G

Who gets to say when you're "half assing" and when you're not? Who gets to define when you get to use drugs and when you can't? And for what reason? This is why I have an intellectual issue with this kind of thinking. On one hand, you say we should judge, aren't you doing that? Aren't you questioning the decisions and motives of people you don't know? In the minds of those hypothetical people we are talking about in this thread, maybe they believe they are training hard and eating right. How many times have we all seen posts here from well-intentioned people who believe they are eating right? It's all a matter of perspective. Maybe they don't train as hard as you. Is that any reason to judge them? I say live and let live. If people want to make decision – good, bad, or indifferent – so be it. They are adults.

ronald1919
12-21-09, 5:57 pm
They piss me off. Walk around like they are adonis flexing and shit when they have no clue what real training is. They have this bluetooth in their ear so they can socialize and of course send messages between sets. Another thing I notice is that they ignore legs completely and have chicken legs. It is all upper body for them cause that's what the chicks in the club like.

IMO it's not about choices. You are clearly taking a shortcut without putting any effort. Vanity at its best. All for temporary gains, the moment they get off the juice they start looking like crap because they have no backbone in training or nutrition. These guys are sacrificing their health for all the wrong reasons.

Naturally Huge
12-21-09, 5:59 pm
Well said G. In the end, the consistency of hammering heavy weights and following the right diet is key for sustained results. In every walk of life, there's always someone looking for a short cut. Taking the short cut may work sometimes (it will appear to work) but long term, short cuts never make the winner.

Amen. So many in the bodybuilding world, whether they compete or not, do look for the shortcut (drugs) without giving credit to hard, consistent work and diet. They just want to get muscles quick and avoid paying their dues day in and day out. I respect those brothers who put in the time and effort with training and eating, with or without drugs. \
I'll admit that years ago I did a couple of cycles, but I, and those I trained with, trained with intensity and handled heavy, thickness-building weights. We didn't fuck around with light weights just to get a pump and look good.

Alk
12-21-09, 9:30 pm
I've seen alot of 165lb people in the gym talk about this. And, what I do notice, is the really big guys who say you don't need heavy ass weights to get big, are saying this in regards to doing incline benches with 315 for 10-15 reps. That 315 is getting them 10-15 reps, I bet if they dropped into the 3-5 range they would be using 405. Its the higher rep allowance that makes them say itsa "light weight". Fact of the matter is, Nobody got huge arms from curling 20lb dumbells, I don't care how many reps you do or how much you squeeze those muscles.

The weight doesn't matter man. Heavy weight doesn't have a specific starting number.

BigDubbDiesel
12-21-09, 9:44 pm
The weight doesn't matter man. Heavy weight doesn't have a specific starting number.

exactly, for someone who weighs 165, 225lbs might be a fucking solid weight, but for someone who weighs 200lbs, it might be a warm up...

Beowulf
12-22-09, 10:00 am
The weight doesn't matter man. Heavy weight doesn't have a specific starting number.

True enough. Besides, some bodybuilders train with "light" weights as compared to powerlifters. Different strokes for different folks.

futurefreak101
12-22-09, 12:57 pm
Take pride in your consistency and authenticity my brother... You built your house with big ass bricks and when the winds blows, it ain't going no where.

Heavy weights and real eating done consistently for years is what builds a functional, thick, enduring physique. Let the pretty boys have their day in the sun and be proud of the fact that you'll out last em all. You know the real deal and eventually they'll know as well.

Peace, G

man i swear u have the best fucking posts....i just used that as my facebook status.lol....awesome.

G Diesel
12-22-09, 1:03 pm
man i swear u have the best fucking posts....i just used that as my facebook status.lol....awesome.

Haha. Thanks bro. Sometimes it just comes out that way.

Peace, G

Punisher
12-23-09, 4:10 pm
so what r u trying to say that those who are "enhanced" dont work as hard as natural guys? because i know plenty of natty guys with crazy genetics who are lazy sobs and look great

Big C
12-23-09, 4:18 pm
so what r u trying to say that those who are "enhanced" dont work as hard as natural guys? because i know plenty of natty guys with crazy genetics who are lazy sobs and look great

Truth. I think it's just a stereotype that "enhanced" bros don't have to work as hard to look good. I know some enhanced who bust their ass, some that don't. I know natty guys who bust their ass, and some who don't.

I don't care if an individual is natty or not....as long as they work hard and put in their best efforts they have my respect.

andrewT
12-24-09, 10:53 am
Truth. I think it's just a stereotype that "enhanced" bros don't have to work as hard to look good. I know some enhanced who bust their ass, some that don't. I know natty guys who bust their ass, and some who don't.

I don't care if an individual is natty or not....as long as they work hard and put in their best efforts they have my respect.

exactamondo

msktyshha
12-24-09, 1:13 pm
you know whats even more frustrating sometimes? seeing a complete newbie packing on muscles much quicker then I am. Seeing guys grow muscle just by playing basketball and never stepping into the gym just cause they have good genes. Seeing a younger guy then me who's on juice pack on much more muscle then I do. All these things are only frustrating when you give a shit about others, and are competing against them in your head. But you know what makes me feel better? that 2 years ago I was at 145lbs and now I am ar 215lbs. IT'S YOU vs YOU

G Diesel
12-28-09, 1:26 pm
Truth. I think it's just a stereotype that "enhanced" bros don't have to work as hard to look good. I know some enhanced who bust their ass, some that don't. I know natty guys who bust their ass, and some who don't.

I don't care if an individual is natty or not....as long as they work hard and put in their best efforts they have my respect.


you know whats even more frustrating sometimes? seeing a complete newbie packing on muscles much quicker then I am. Seeing guys grow muscle just by playing basketball and never stepping into the gym just cause they have good genes. Seeing a younger guy then me who's on juice pack on much more muscle then I do. All these things are only frustrating when you give a shit about others, and are competing against them in your head. But you know what makes me feel better? that 2 years ago I was at 145lbs and now I am ar 215lbs. IT'S YOU vs YOU

Word.

Moral of the story? Do you. Focus on you and your progress regardless of what others may or may not be doing.

Take pride in who you are and make becoming better on your terms priority number one. Become the guy others are frustratingly shaking their heads about.

Peace, G

ronnie
12-28-09, 2:05 pm
dont worry about the seasonal, high rep, beach muslce, on and off again goofs. they wont be sticking around, may as well just look right through them.