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Kryptonite
01-30-10, 11:18 pm
My current split is:
Day 1: Chest/Tris/Abs
Day 2: Back/Bis/Traps
Day 3: Shoulders/Legs/Calves
Day 4: Off.
Repeat.

I got some great gains off this split, but I'm assuming this was because I had come off a split of extreme overtraining. These gains have now came to a screeching halt and the cause is pretty clear to me. I'm now taking an hour extra to finish my lifting sessions. So, I take about 2 hours in total to finish a single session. This doesn't seem right to me so I'm assuming I need to break it down a bit.

I was thinking about switching to Wrath's split:
Day 1: Chest.
Day 2: Back.
Day 3: Off.
Day 4: Legs.
Day 5: Shoulders.
Day 6: Arms.
Day 7: Off.

I really liked how this looked, but I'm looking for more mass in my arms. This doesn't seem like it would do the trick considering I only have a single day for my triceps to rest before I train them again on chest day.

So, I have the following questions for you guys:
Should I use Wrath's split?
Should I use a different split?
Should I continue to use my own split?

Legacy
01-31-10, 12:26 am
Hey bro, I had the same issue where I wanted to prioritize my arms. I was hittin each muscle 1 time per week, but wanted to put my arms in front, so this is how I fixed my split.

Day 1 - Arms
Day 2 - OFF
Day 3 - Legs
Day 4 - Back/Rear Delts & Trap
Day 5 - OFF
Day 6 - Chest/Side Delts
Day 7 - OFF

So if you look at it, you get a day off before and after you train arms, then I hit my legs and back, i always do back the day after legs because the soreness from legs doesnt kick in until 2 days after, so I can still get my deadlifts in. I've only been on this split for a week or so, but it is spread out, which is what I like and i can really prioritize my arms. Hope this helps man

Tron
01-31-10, 12:49 am
To get bigger arms, do heavy compounds... One Arm day is all you need... sometimes that can be overkill too.

BionicMasterPiece
01-31-10, 1:03 am
My current split is:
Day 1: Chest/Tris/Abs
Day 2: Back/Bis/Traps
Day 3: Shoulders/Legs/Calves
Day 4: Off.
Repeat.

I got some great gains off this split, but I'm assuming this was because I had come off a split of extreme overtraining. These gains have now came to a screeching halt and the cause is pretty clear to me. I'm now taking an hour extra to finish my lifting sessions. So, I take about 2 hours in total to finish a single session. This doesn't seem right to me so I'm assuming I need to break it down a bit.

I was thinking about switching to Wrath's split:
Day 1: Chest.
Day 2: Back.
Day 3: Off.
Day 4: Legs.
Day 5: Shoulders.
Day 6: Arms.
Day 7: Off.

I really liked how this looked, but I'm looking for more mass in my arms. This doesn't seem like it would do the trick considering I only have a single day for my triceps to rest before I train them again on chest day.

So, I have the following questions for you guys:
Should I use Wrath's split?
Should I use a different split?
Should I continue to use my own split?

You shouldnt be following wrath's split, he didnt built his mass on that split....so many people look at a pro bodybuilders or magazine split and automatically assume thats how they grew their muscle. You build your mass from strictly free weight pressing, rows, squats, deadlifts. So you gota find a split that works for you. You may not find one until 5 years right now....but if you want a split that will work, do a 3-4 (5 day is ok aslong as your getting enough nutrition and rest) Focus strictly on pressing, rows, squats, and a little bit of direct tricep and bicep work at the end of a chest or back workout. Its not about stimulating the muscle, its about stimulating the NERVOUS SYSTEM and the muscle. Or if you think what im offering you is complete bullshit go ahead and keep following your split...or wraths split...but anyways just train hardcore and focus just on the basics!! I dunno why people stopped focusing on "JUST" the basics anymore....

Goliathus
01-31-10, 2:02 am
AMEN

YOu have to think bro, the arms are such a small, easy muscle to work.
Close-grips & Skull crushers for your tris
Barbell & Dumbell curls/ezbar for your bis
done

PORTERHOUSE
01-31-10, 2:30 am
I personally like to have my a separate arm day. I don't like doing back/bi's and so forth because my back is so tired its hard for me to hold form. I never got some good growth in my arms until I gave myself a separate arm day. Having said that, I still keep it simple. I keep all my training sessions to an hour or less. The arms are small muscle groups and don't need that much. I respond better lifting HEAVY in the arms. Everyone is different, but that is what works for me. My general split looks like this:
Sun: Legs
Mon: Chest
Tues: Eating Day
Wed: Back
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Arms
Sat: Eating Day

Also, remember that to grow and bust through plateau's you need to be eating big and especially if your getting stuck, bump up the calories.

NaturalTrainee
01-31-10, 3:08 am
Goliathus and Bionic are right, your bi's and tri's will have enough work if you work them directly once a week, do the basics described above and train your back and chest hardcore style to grow. Do this properly and I guarantee results.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 8:00 am
To get bigger arms, do heavy compounds... One Arm day is all you need... sometimes that can be overkill too.

I got the heavy compounds down.

But if you're telling me that 1 arm day can be overkill you're going to love this...

Day 1:
1. Chest
Flat bench press
Incline bench press
Decline bench press
Dumbbell flyes
2. Triceps
Close grip bench press
Lying tricep extension
Dumbbell seated tricep extension
Tricep pushdowns

Day 2:
1. Back:
Deadlifts
Barbbell rows
Bent over rows
Lat pulldowns
2. Biceps
Barbbell curls
Dumbbell curls
Hammer curls
Double cable curls

I obviously need to make quite a few changes...

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 8:03 am
You shouldnt be following wrath's split, he didnt built his mass on that split....so many people look at a pro bodybuilders or magazine split and automatically assume thats how they grew their muscle. You build your mass from strictly free weight pressing, rows, squats, deadlifts. So you gota find a split that works for you. You may not find one until 5 years right now....but if you want a split that will work, do a 3-4 (5 day is ok aslong as your getting enough nutrition and rest) Focus strictly on pressing, rows, squats, and a little bit of direct tricep and bicep work at the end of a chest or back workout. Its not about stimulating the muscle, its about stimulating the NERVOUS SYSTEM and the muscle. Or if you think what im offering you is complete bullshit go ahead and keep following your split...or wraths split...but anyways just train hardcore and focus just on the basics!! I dunno why people stopped focusing on "JUST" the basics anymore....

No, no, no. That's not me, bro. I wasn't following his split as far as the excercises go. I was just following the set up and incorporating my own routine into it. My routine consists of mostly heavy compound excercises and other basic movements. I'm a pretty basic dude.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 8:09 am
I personally like to have my a separate arm day. I don't like doing back/bi's and so forth because my back is so tired its hard for me to hold form. I never got some good growth in my arms until I gave myself a separate arm day. Having said that, I still keep it simple. I keep all my training sessions to an hour or less. The arms are small muscle groups and don't need that much. I respond better lifting HEAVY in the arms. Everyone is different, but that is what works for me. My general split looks like this:
Sun: Legs
Mon: Chest
Tues: Eating Day
Wed: Back
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Arms
Sat: Eating Day

Also, remember that to grow and bust through plateau's you need to be eating big and especially if your getting stuck, bump up the calories.
I'm starting to feel the same way. So, I'm definitly going to give myself a seperate arm day to see how it feels. I've also been looking for a seperate leg day so I guess I have 2 days down so far. Haha

I respond better to heavy lifts in every muscle group. I'm not sure if that's weird or not, but I couldn't get my calves to grow on medium weight, 50 reps, but they're blowing up on heavy weight, 15 reps. It was the same thing with my traps.

I'm bumping up the calories too as you know from my other question thread. Thanks for the help, bro. I really appreciate the posts in both threads.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 8:11 am
Goliathus and Bionic are right, your bi's and tri's will have enough work if you work them directly once a week, do the basics described above and train your back and chest hardcore style to grow. Do this properly and I guarantee results.

Sounds good, bro. Thanks for the response.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 8:14 am
Hey bro, I had the same issue where I wanted to prioritize my arms. I was hittin each muscle 1 time per week, but wanted to put my arms in front, so this is how I fixed my split.

Day 1 - Arms
Day 2 - OFF
Day 3 - Legs
Day 4 - Back/Rear Delts & Trap
Day 5 - OFF
Day 6 - Chest/Side Delts
Day 7 - OFF

So if you look at it, you get a day off before and after you train arms, then I hit my legs and back, i always do back the day after legs because the soreness from legs doesnt kick in until 2 days after, so I can still get my deadlifts in. I've only been on this split for a week or so, but it is spread out, which is what I like and i can really prioritize my arms. Hope this helps man

That might be good for me. A complete rest period for arms.

Thanks for the idea, bro. I appreciate it.

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 11:56 am
well man, whats your height/weight? Remember every 10-15 lbs your add to your frame your arm grows about an inch.

MrMonday
01-31-10, 12:44 pm
I don't understand these people who are so deathly afraid of overtraining... LOL

I believe in frequency to address lagging bodyparts, so when my arms were lagging I trained like this:

Day 1 Arms
Day 2 Legs
Day 3 rest
Day 4 Chest/triceps
Day 5 Back/biceps
Day 6 Shoulders
Day 7 rest

As others have mentioned, a huge factor here is going to be your diet. Are you still gaining bodyweight?

Hercules
01-31-10, 1:06 pm
Honestly, I haven't trained my arms directly in a couple years. I'll do dips or skullcrushers on an upper day, but I don't ever do curls. I hate curls and I do not find them to be a necessary excercise. I hit biceps hard enough when training my back. Rowing and general pulling motions with varying grips can really blast the biceps. I was on a Westiside program (I did eliminate curls, though) and the last time I measured my arms they were @ 19.1 inches. Concentrate on training your back and lower body. Eat like a true animal. Your arms will grow with the rest of your body.

widdlewade44
01-31-10, 1:57 pm
To get bigger arms, do heavy compounds... One Arm day is all you need... sometimes that can be overkill too.

Compounds are a great thing!


AMEN

YOu have to think bro, the arms are such a small, easy muscle to work.
Close-grips & Skull crushers for your tris
Barbell & Dumbell curls/ezbar for your bis
done

Completely agree, less is better.


for a while.

Do heavy work with everything else and you should see a growth spurt (in your arms). If nothing else, the rest for arms will be a help to them over time. Good luck on your Journey, peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44

theharjmann
01-31-10, 4:59 pm
Honestly, I haven't trained my arms directly in a couple years. I'll do dips or skullcrushers on an upper day, but I don't ever do curls. I hate curls and I do not find them to be a necessary excercise. I hit biceps hard enough when training my back. Rowing and general pulling motions with varying grips can really blast the biceps. I was on a Westiside program (I did eliminate curls, though) and the last time I measured my arms they were @ 19.1 inches. Concentrate on training your back and lower body. Eat like a true animal. Your arms will grow with the rest of your body.

Whilst this is indeed the case with many big boys, it is definitely not the case with me. I remember reading around on this forum with a lot of people saying "theres no need to train arms if you do heavy compounds." - Hercules ive seen your bodyspace and your arms are BIG!

I had a big bench, squat, deadlift and military press but my arms still werent up to par with the rest of my body.

However I NEED to do direct arm work in order for them to grow...however i dont dedicate a day to arms...that is a waste of time....i will do triceps after chest and come in on a 5th day (i do a 4 day split - CHEST/TRI, BACK/REAR DELT, LEGS, SHOULDERS/TRAPS) do biceps for 15 minutes - any longer then 15 minutes of direct bicep work is overtraining in my opinion - i stick to 3 exercises and rep out until i cant move my arms.

One thing i have found for arms is that any less than 9-10 reps per set is a waste of time....volume for arms works better for me than heavy weight does...i also like to pre exhaust the arms....for instance preacher curls to start with for biceps and end on barbell curls or cable pushdowns for triceps followed by skull crushers.

I suppose its about finding what works for you.

Good luck.

Goliathus
01-31-10, 5:07 pm
You have to really hit awesome technique on arms too
Anyone can grab a set of 60s and throw them around pretending youre doing curls
Make sure you feel the contraction

Ive been doing my tris after chest and shoulders lately
Hitting Skull Crushers and doing 2 sets of ezbar tricep combos, then hitting rope pushdowns

If you give your biceps direct work, either on back day or giving the biceps a day after your split, barbell curls are the easiest mass builder, should you do them right
You just have to look at where you actually NEED work and plan accordingly

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:14 pm
well man, whats your height/weight? Remember every 10-15 lbs your add to your frame your arm grows about an inch.

I'm 5'8" and 155 lbs. I'm assuming you're telling me to start eating? Haha

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:17 pm
I don't understand these people who are so deathly afraid of overtraining... LOL

I believe in frequency to address lagging bodyparts, so when my arms were lagging I trained like this:

Day 1 Arms
Day 2 Legs
Day 3 rest
Day 4 Chest/triceps
Day 5 Back/biceps
Day 6 Shoulders
Day 7 rest

As others have mentioned, a huge factor here is going to be your diet. Are you still gaining bodyweight?

I'm pretty sure I got the diet thing covered. I haven't gained a single pound in quite a while, but I'm going to increase the calories by 1,000 for the next week or two to see where it brings me.

As far as the arm frequency goes, I'm not sure that will work for me, but I'm definitly going to keep it in mind.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:19 pm
Compounds are a great thing!



Completely agree, less is better.


for a while.

Do heavy work with everything else and you should see a growth spurt (in your arms). If nothing else, the rest for arms will be a help to them over time. Good luck on your Journey, peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44

Thanks for the post, bro. I'm most likely going to cut my arm routine to 4 excercises.

It'll look something like this:
Close grip bench press
Lying tricep extension
Barbell curls
Dumbbell hammer curls

I may alternate it with another arm routine every week.

Goliathus
01-31-10, 7:20 pm
see
thats solid

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:22 pm
Whilst this is indeed the case with many big boys, it is definitely not the case with me. I remember reading around on this forum with a lot of people saying "theres no need to train arms if you do heavy compounds." - Hercules ive seen your bodyspace and your arms are BIG!

I had a big bench, squat, deadlift and military press but my arms still werent up to par with the rest of my body.

However I NEED to do direct arm work in order for them to grow...however i dont dedicate a day to arms...that is a waste of time....i will do triceps after chest and come in on a 5th day (i do a 4 day split - CHEST/TRI, BACK/REAR DELT, LEGS, SHOULDERS/TRAPS) do biceps for 15 minutes - any longer then 15 minutes of direct bicep work is overtraining in my opinion - i stick to 3 exercises and rep out until i cant move my arms.

One thing i have found for arms is that any less than 9-10 reps per set is a waste of time....volume for arms works better for me than heavy weight does...i also like to pre exhaust the arms....for instance preacher curls to start with for biceps and end on barbell curls or cable pushdowns for triceps followed by skull crushers.

I suppose its about finding what works for you.

Good luck.

It looks like I'm keeping the arm routine short! I'm going to test out the solo arm day for now. If it doesn't work out I'm most likely going to switch back to the Chest/Tri, Back/Bi method. A little experimenting shouldn't hurt.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:25 pm
You have to really hit awesome technique on arms too
Anyone can grab a set of 60s and throw them around pretending youre doing curls
Make sure you feel the contraction

Ive been doing my tris after chest and shoulders lately
Hitting Skull Crushers and doing 2 sets of ezbar tricep combos, then hitting rope pushdowns

If you give your biceps direct work, either on back day or giving the biceps a day after your split, barbell curls are the easiest mass builder, should you do them right
You just have to look at where you actually NEED work and plan accordingly

I've heard mixed messages on training arms. Some guys tell me not to worry about the weight I'm using while training arms and focus on the contraction and negative, but others say to just go "fucking heavy." Heavy always works for me so I try to go with a pretty decent weight (for me) and focus on my form as much as possible. Which way would be best?

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 7:26 pm
see
thats solid

Haha, it looks good. We'll just have to wait and see how it works...

widdlewade44
01-31-10, 7:29 pm
Thanks for the post, bro. I'm most likely going to cut my arm routine to 4 excercises.

It'll look something like this:
Close grip bench press
Lying tricep extension
Barbell curls
Dumbbell hammer curls

I may alternate it with another arm routine every week.

I think that's a solid plan for arms. Good form and belt out the work!

Kevin
widdlewade44

Muscleguy93
01-31-10, 7:49 pm
I'm 5'8" and 155 lbs. I'm assuming you're telling me to start eating? Haha

nope, lol I've read your other threads about your food intake.

anyways... nice routine, good luck.

Kryptonite
01-31-10, 10:23 pm
Thanks for the help guys. All of your posts helped out a lot towards my questions. Good luck with all of your goals.

NaturalTrainee
02-01-10, 5:46 am
Thanks for the post, bro. I'm most likely going to cut my arm routine to 4 excercises.

It'll look something like this:
Close grip bench press
Lying tricep extension
Barbell curls
Dumbbell hammer curls

I may alternate it with another arm routine every week.

A really nice idea. Alone when they're fresh and able to handle the most work, and just the best exercises in order to built them.

theharjmann
02-01-10, 6:32 am
I've heard mixed messages on training arms. Some guys tell me not to worry about the weight I'm using while training arms and focus on the contraction and negative, but others say to just go "fucking heavy." Heavy always works for me so I try to go with a pretty decent weight (for me) and focus on my form as much as possible. Which way would be best?

Nail the form. Then begin to add weight to increase resistance.

Too much weight and sloppy form will end up fucking your wrists and elbows up...and if that happens then you wont be able to do ANY upper body work. Im not saying go light so you cant feel it, but use a weight whereby you are struggling on the 8th rep or so, not the 3rd/4th rep if you get my drift.

Kryptonite
02-01-10, 9:08 pm
A really nice idea. Alone when they're fresh and able to handle the most work, and just the best exercises in order to built them.

Those are my favorites. Haha, I'm really loving those close grips especially.

Kryptonite
02-01-10, 9:15 pm
Nail the form. Then begin to add weight to increase resistance.

Too much weight and sloppy form will end up fucking your wrists and elbows up...and if that happens then you wont be able to do ANY upper body work. Im not saying go light so you cant feel it, but use a weight whereby you are struggling on the 8th rep or so, not the 3rd/4th rep if you get my drift.

That sounds like what I'm doing now. I've been focusing a lot on my form (warm ups, stretching, and weight) actually. I want to reduce the risk of injury considering I've been screwing myself up quite often. I'm trying to increase the weight though, I need some damn gains. Haha

theharjmann
02-02-10, 4:00 am
That sounds like what I'm doing now. I've been focusing a lot on my form (warm ups, stretching, and weight) actually. I want to reduce the risk of injury considering I've been screwing myself up quite often. I'm trying to increase the weight though, I need some damn gains. Haha

Gains come from eating enough, sleeping enough and not stressing too much.

Its a three tripod....100% training, 100% eating, 100% rest and mental focus. If one of those things isnt adhered to properly, the whole stand falls and you wont put on size. Simple.

NaturalTrainee
02-02-10, 9:30 am
This is our world, the world of iron we adhere to.

ironshaolin
02-02-10, 9:44 am
Dude,

If you're 5'8 and weigh 155lbs I would say you do not need to follow wrath's split, OR a bodypart split.

I believe you would get your best gains from hitting all the muscles 2x a week. A good split could be:
upper
lower
off
upper
lower
off
off

I would say one upper body day, start with a horizontal push like bench or dumbell bench, then go into a shoulder move, and a horizontal pull like barbell or dumbell row. Finish with one curl variation.
Second upper body day, begin with a vertical push like military press, go into a vertical pull like chins, and finish off with dips for chest/triceps.
For lower days, prioritze squats one day, and deads the other. On squat day, finish with a ham excersise like GHR's, good mornings, or leg curls. Then add some abs in. On deadlift day, finish with a uni-lateral quad move like lunges or step ups, and abs.

Get stronger first. You should at least be closer to a 250lb bench, 300+ squat and a 400+ deadlift before I would start dabbling with volume routines. And pick up the fork!!!

Goliathus
02-02-10, 7:27 pm
amen
You gotta BUILD A BASE first
no one realizes that

Kryptonite
02-02-10, 10:52 pm
Gains come from eating enough, sleeping enough and not stressing too much.

Its a three tripod....100% training, 100% eating, 100% rest and mental focus. If one of those things isnt adhered to properly, the whole stand falls and you wont put on size. Simple.

I got those pretty well covered.

Athough "rest and mental focus" may be where I'm lacking. Some school nights I only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I hate living so far away from my school. At least I get my 8 hours on weekdays and other days off.

Kryptonite
02-02-10, 10:53 pm
This is our world, the world of iron we adhere to.

And there's no other place we'd rather be.