View Full Version : barbell curls
I am trying to figure out the most effective way to do bb curls with good form becaue the heavier you go the more your shoulders want to fall backwards in order to pick the weight up. How does a person discipline himself to realize when the bicep can no longer lift the weight? And then how do you deal with it when the bicep is having a hard time lifting but the muscle hasn't been fatigued? What do you do on that threshold?
Goliathus
02-24-10, 4:11 pm
when you start losing the feeling of your contraction in your biceps
thats a good time to start dropping
theharjmann
02-24-10, 6:25 pm
I am trying to figure out the most effective way to do bb curls with good form becaue the heavier you go the more your shoulders want to fall backwards in order to pick the weight up. How does a person discipline himself to realize when the bicep can no longer lift the weight? And then how do you deal with it when the bicep is having a hard time lifting but the muscle hasn't been fatigued? What do you do on that threshold?
start on isolated machine curls. absolutely fuck your biceps on that. then move to barbell curls. that way you wont be using your front delts for the movement.
prowrestler
02-25-10, 2:50 am
start on isolated machine curls. absolutely fuck your biceps on that. then move to barbell curls. that way you wont be using your front delts for the movement.
it actually works the other way around...
body uses the strongest muscle to move the load...if biceps are weak...shoudlers will wanna take over.
BUT, the biceps will fail 1st in this case due to being tired already.
NaturalTrainee
02-25-10, 2:56 am
Simply reduce the weight to the point where you completely control the movement. Keep the shoulders back and fixed.
I really like this article about BB curls: http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=327§ion=training
Put your back up against the wall flat. Use a weight that you can do your set range on, it is ok to throw in a couple cheaters at the end, but don't look like a fool doing it. Same principal as the arm blaster in a way.
theharjmann
02-25-10, 4:57 am
it actually works the other way around...
body uses the strongest muscle to move the load...if biceps are weak...shoudlers will wanna take over.
BUT, the biceps will fail 1st in this case due to being tired already.
yeah my point exactly. why use other muscle groups unnecessarily when your sole aim is to hit the biceps....when my biceps are destroyed from isolation curls i then only need to put no more than 10kg on each end of the bar to do curls as opposed to 20kg if barbell curls were to be my first exercise. not only that but i hit my biceps more full on this way
biceps dont need a lot of work. no more than 4 working sets in my opinion. the bicep is one of the smallest muscles in the body (from a bodybuilding perspective anyway) so why train it with as many sets as you would chest or back....thats just overtraining.
provided you go into the gym to train and dont talk to people, your biceps training shouldnt really take longer than 15 minutes to train.
theharjmann
02-25-10, 5:04 am
also, watch this to understand the most effective way to hit your arm muscles. best video ever!
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2666-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-arms-training.html
MrMonday
02-25-10, 10:44 am
Honestly I never saw the benefit of going super strict on barbell curls.
I don't want my shoulders doing all the work however, so I typically do my barbell curls almost like I'm doing a lower-trap-row. I bend forward a little at the bottom, let my arms straighten and my biceps stretch, and then straighten my back and pull my shoulders blades together and my arms into my sides as I curl it all the way up, then lower it under strict control and stretch it all out at the bottom again.
It may not be "strict form", but it certainly isn't sloppy. I'm not just throwing weight around, I have just turned it into more of a power movement.
theharjmann
02-25-10, 11:28 am
Honestly I never saw the benefit of going super strict on barbell curls.
I don't want my shoulders doing all the work however, so I typically do my barbell curls almost like I'm doing a lower-trap-row. I bend forward a little at the bottom, let my arms straighten and my biceps stretch, and then straighten my back and pull my shoulders blades together and my arms into my sides as I curl it all the way up, then lower it under strict control and stretch it all out at the bottom again.
It may not be "strict form", but it certainly isn't sloppy. I'm not just throwing weight around, I have just turned it into more of a power movement.
ive seen a lot of people do that. dont get me wrong, im not knocking it, but i just fail to understand the need for it.
why not just half the weight and make your biceps only do the work.
you can do "power" movements on back/chest/delt/leg day. why not just isolate the biceps so they can grow to their ultimate potential....
MrMonday
02-25-10, 11:42 am
ive seen a lot of people do that. dont get me wrong, im not knocking it, but i just fail to understand the need for it.
why not just half the weight and make your biceps only do the work.
you can do "power" movements on back/chest/delt/leg day. why not just isolate the biceps so they can grow to their ultimate potential....
I isolate my biceps when I do concentration curls or preacher curls.
When I do barbell curls, I go heavy BECAUSE I want them to grow to their "ultimate potential". Without exposing them to heavy weights they never seem to grow.
The combination of heavy powerful BB and DB curls, and very isolated preacher/cable/concentration curls, is what has given me the best results.
GJN5002
02-25-10, 11:47 am
Put your back up against the wall flat. Use a weight that you can do your set range on, it is ok to throw in a couple cheaters at the end, but don't look like a fool doing it. Same principal as the arm blaster in a way.
this^^^^
Put your feet about 12 inches in front of you an dlean back against the wall, you couldnt cheat if you wanted to.
fenix237
02-25-10, 11:55 am
if you really want your biceps to reach max size/development, drop all direct arm work, and focus on heavy barbell squats. more bodyweight = bigger guns
if you really want your biceps to reach max size/development, drop all direct arm work, and focus on heavy barbell squats. more bodyweight = bigger guns
I'm sorry, squats just do not work the biceps. People need to realize this.. and this is coming from a powerlifter who is obsessed with squatting. If this were the case, my arms would be pretty damn big compared to what they are now haha
theharjmann
02-25-10, 12:02 pm
I'm sorry, squats just do not work the biceps. People need to realize this.. and this is coming from a powerlifter who is obsessed with squatting. If this were the case, my arms would be pretty damn big compared to what they are now haha
exactly...prime example...Dave Tate.
Look at his arms now compared to 5 years ago. 5 years ago he never trained biceps. He said, and i quote, "For me, a curl was tying my tennis shoes."
It depends on what you want your biceps to look like. If you want your upper arms to just be a big lump which manage to knock up 18-23 inches on a measuring tape then you could probably get away without training arms directly. But if you want aesthetically pleasing arms (to a bodybuilder) then you gotta hit them directly somehow...that my opinion anyway....im yet to see an out and out powerlifter with upper arms that most people would like to possess.
Simply reduce the weight to the point where you completely control the movement. Keep the shoulders back and fixed.
I really like this article about BB curls: http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=327§ion=training
x2. If you find yourself throwing other bodyparts to get the weight up you're going to heavy. It took me a while to realize my biceps weren't getting all the work they could have. Once i dropped and focused on pure form, i was able to translate that into heavier weights.
fenix237
02-25-10, 12:45 pm
boom and harjmann- you guys have to forgive me- i was making a joke about a discussion me and MrMonday had awhile back about squats and arm size/growth- i apologize to the OP
i'm a bit dizzy listening to this healthcare debate....
ironshaolin
02-25-10, 12:50 pm
I'm sorry, squats just do not work the biceps. People need to realize this.. and this is coming from a powerlifter who is obsessed with squatting. If this were the case, my arms would be pretty damn big compared to what they are now haha
You're absolutely right, squats do NOT work the biceps. However, squats add weight to your body. Charles Poliquin said you need to gain anywhere from 10-15lbs of bodyweight to add 1 inch to your arms. So, for many, many lifters who weigh 190lbs or less, who will spend all day working on their guns with less than 100lbs on the bar, and wonder why they won't grow.
I think that in the beginning stages, doing pullups/chinups and heavy rows with a focus on moving at least 60-70lbs MORE than what you're doing now will add some girth to your arms. Eventually, you will need to add direct arm work to make your arms grow.
Dave Tate's arms definately look huge now, since he's actually began working them. However, before even starting that, the man could already squat well over 700lbs. So he was strong as hell, and weighted over 250. So for someone like that, direct arm work can be a benefit. For someone who weighs 180lbs, forget your "arm day" and do some heavy rows. Get yourself to doing 6 reps on the strict chinup with at least 50lbs. Add 75-100lbs to your barbell row. THEN start adding in direct arm work.
MrMonday
02-25-10, 12:57 pm
boom and harjmann- you guys have to forgive me- i was making a joke about a discussion me and MrMonday had awhile back about squats and arm size/growth- i apologize to the OP
i'm a bit dizzy listening to this healthcare debate....
lol better yet, let's not lift weights at all. Let's just eat cheesecake and icecream and gain bodyweight until our arms reach 20 inches
Hopefully by then we'll have better healthcare to take care of us while we're in a constant state of cardiac arrest!
theharjmann
02-25-10, 1:47 pm
lol better yet, let's not lift weights at all. Let's just eat cheesecake and icecream and gain bodyweight until our arms reach 20 inches
Hopefully by then we'll have better healthcare to take care of us while we're in a constant state of cardiac arrest!
LOL
I always had trouble with these also. Focused too much on if i was doing them right and not enough on feeling them work. Best advice i got was from JoeyD. "Keep it strict as possible, but sometimes we gotta cheat to get big"
mon-off
tues-shoulders traps
wed-bi/tri
thurs - leg
fri-off
sat-chest
sun-back
usually my shoulders are shot from the previous days workout so they dont come into play. the only issue i get now is my lower back cramps up pretty fierce during bi workouts when i am standing. i think its from concentrating so much on not rocking. again just my 2 cents worth
I agree you have to cheat on some heavy curls every now and then. But for the first couple sets, Nice and strict, squeezing the bi and hold the squeeze at the top for 1-2 seconds and slowly down. when you get to your heaviest set and get to the last few, cheat a little, but squeeze it at the top and negative it down. Leave your ego at the door and use a weight your not swinging like a fool on. I see guys that have been using the big weight and swinging it up and they are still the same size they were 6 months ago. I agree that squats add size all over. But I also agree you have to do some direct work. Genetics play a huge role in what your Bi will look like as well. I for one have always had a great bi. even when I was a super skinny runner when I was young. It turned into what looks like a baseball under my skin now. Some other people I know will always have that fat guy look to their arm and never have a good peak.