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msktyshha
03-02-10, 9:29 pm
ok guys is the bent over barbell rows really a good exercise for your back? How many of u swear by it. see the thing is if i use light weight on this exercise, I target my back easy, but as it gets to moderate and heavy, the tension sways away from my back and the row becomes into a shrug. Any good alternatives to this exercise besides pullups or deadlifts. or how do you really keep the tension on the back even when goin heavy. Also I feel a lot comfortable using the hammer strength rows, and I get a nice workout for my back with them, so does this mean I should do hammer strength over barbell??

this hammer strength row machine I am talking about http://www.leehayward.com/dvdpics/1limbpics/hammerrow.jpg

RICER88
03-02-10, 10:14 pm
I would say Barbell rows are key to back thickness. I like to do mine like Dorian Yates with my knees slightly bent, and my torso at about a 70 degree angle to the floor. I start the movement by bringing my shoulder blades back and together( I find this helps make sure I activate my back), then lead with my elbows, and squeeze at the top. Play around with the movement to find what works for you. try different angles and see what feels best. different hand placements as well as under or overhand. Another idea would be to do most of your back exercises, and save the barbell rows for last, that way you dont have to go as heavy because your back is already shot.

RICER88

RK
03-02-10, 10:43 pm
everything you need to know about back training in this video

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

Dead lift, BB Row, Chins, pull downs etc. There not easy, but there is no shortcut to getting big.

jeff00z28
03-02-10, 11:50 pm
just gotta get used to em brah. when i do em i feel like im cheating like crazy, but then when i do the next exercise i realize how big of a pump i really got from them

BeastTom
03-03-10, 12:02 am
Nothing will beat barbell rows... Get used to them and master them

Goliathus
03-03-10, 1:48 am
definitely a great excercise, when done with good form

violator
03-03-10, 2:21 am
For beginners i think that the BB row is abused...simply because of the fact you mentioned, that as you add more weight to the exercise, form starts to break down & ends up in a glorified shrug...ive been guilty of this in the past, as im sure many others have been as well...
So...do ur rows, but do em with a lighter weight u can handle...

That row machine is great, i use the same one & find it to be very effective, however, keep the ego in check and load a resistance weight that u can handle, at the peak contraction of the movement, really squeeze ur shoulder blades together and 'feel' the inner traps contracting...also, use the different grips on the handles to find which u prefer..

once uve mastered that movement and make progress with it, then go heavier on the BB row...

hope that helps....

theharjmann
03-03-10, 4:29 am
everything you need to know about back training in this video

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

Dead lift, BB Row, Chins, pull downs etc. There not easy, but there is no shortcut to getting big.

HELL YEAH!

watch that video and these videos....

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=30048

Peace

shizz702
03-03-10, 8:02 am
I personally have found db rows and chins better for me. I could never get a good mm connection with bb rows and always felt torque on my lower back from them. You just got to find what works for you, and while bb rows can be a great exercise, just because others say you should do them, doesn't mean you have to.

theharjmann
03-03-10, 11:10 am
with bb rows and always felt torque on my lower back from them.

maybe its because you bend over too much?

if you bend over too much the following happens:

a) you take the stress of your lats and put it onto your lower back

b) you canty bring the bar into your lower abs with causes you to work your middle back, traps, rhomboids etc as opposed to your lats resulting in you doing a completely different exercise

most people do bent over rows like this, which doesnt target your lats as efficiently:

http://images.obesityhelp.com/uploads/cms/11625/back_bar-05.png

whereas this way will take the strain off your lower back and hit your lats more:

http://www.scottandrewbird.com/sttbimages/posts/YatesRow.jpg

also bear in mind that your hands should be shoulder width apart. far too many people keep their hands wide...this limits their range of motion resulting in you not being to hit your lats as effectively.

Peace

Littlefry
03-03-10, 12:08 pm
They are a difficult exercise to get proper technique and form down. I have been doing them ever since I started on a 5x5 program and love them, I would opt them out for anything. They are key to back thickness and overall growth of your Lats, Upper/Mid Traps, Romhbiods etc...

One thing I have noticed with people who have some trouble preforming them is cause their weaker in the hamstrings, which helps you to get into the stance and stabalize you lower body during the movement, which can result in a cheating type of form/stance.

msktyshha
03-03-10, 1:17 pm
everything you need to know about back training in this video

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

Dead lift, BB Row, Chins, pull downs etc. There not easy, but there is no shortcut to getting big.

very informative video, thanx for that. great way to do deadlifts pulldowns and one arm rows. way he explains the lat movement is awesome. got any more videos for other body parts?

theharjmann
03-03-10, 3:47 pm
very informative video, thanx for that. great way to do deadlifts pulldowns and one arm rows. way he explains the lat movement is awesome. got any more videos for other body parts?

yeah

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar.html

search through these. dorian does a seminar for each bodypart. most are on page 2

Elite
03-03-10, 5:42 pm
I got a warm feeling when Dorian did bb rows and explained them in the MD vids. Exactly how i was taught in my gym last year. I could never get my balance 100% and would be more and more upright on my last working set. Struggled to get the connection to the lats too. But a wiseman, who had trained with Dorian, got me tight and locked in. Was in a good place from then and added 45lbs and 2 more solid reps to my max the following week. From then on my strength and back development have developed so well. Its a great setup, starting like a deadlift, pulling to knees, then rowing, with an explosive, controlled movement. Before, i'd pull off a rack, standing straight, then bend and just row. Never felt that.

Elite
03-03-10, 5:45 pm
this hammer strength row machine I am talking about http://www.leehayward.com/dvdpics/1limbpics/hammerrow.jpg

PS: I love that HS Machine when alternating from DB Rows. One arm at a time, great stretch and squeeze.

msktyshha
03-03-10, 9:20 pm
I am thinking about sticking with hammer stength row for now, and adding the one arm dumbell row towards the end of my workout cause the way dorian explained it, i tried his way of one arm dumbell row today and i felt a great sweep in my lats, just loved it and i feel it fits as a lat killer at the end for me for now since I am still a weak little guy. As I gain some more strength I'll switch to barbell rows. I am watching the videos right now(thank you hajrman) and it's kinda cool how these guys explain it so perfect especially dorian, it's like their the true gurus of bodybuilding, like those old wise karate masters lol, and it's very frustrating to listen to those other self proclaimed gurus who always show a video or two on youtube and then link you to their website to buy their "build 20lbs of muscle in 2 week" program.

Goliathus
03-03-10, 10:42 pm
Listen to what he has to say
he knows what hes talking about

NaturalTrainee
03-04-10, 6:52 am
Dorian's seminar explained them in details and bb rows are the king of upper back.

shizz702
03-04-10, 7:58 am
maybe its because you bend over too much?

if you bend over too much the following happens:

a) you take the stress of your lats and put it onto your lower back

b) you canty bring the bar into your lower abs with causes you to work your middle back, traps, rhomboids etc as opposed to your lats resulting in you doing a completely different exercise

most people do bent over rows like this, which doesnt target your lats as efficiently:

http://images.obesityhelp.com/uploads/cms/11625/back_bar-05.png

whereas this way will take the strain off your lower back and hit your lats more:

http://www.scottandrewbird.com/sttbimages/posts/YatesRow.jpg

also bear in mind that your hands should be shoulder width apart. far too many people keep their hands wide...this limits their range of motion resulting in you not being to hit your lats as effectively.

Peace


I hear ya.

I've done them both ways, and while doing them yates style definitely took the stress off my back, but by doing it that way I also felt no contraction in my lats. Like I said I just found db rows to work better for me.

Littlefry
03-04-10, 1:44 pm
I hear ya.

I've done them both ways, and while doing them yates style definitely took the stress off my back, but by doing it that way I also felt no contraction in my lats. Like I said I just found db rows to work better for me.

I agree with shizz here, lots of people fall into "love" with a certain exercise because they hear it should be a staple in everyones program. However this is not always the case, certain exercises work for different people and hit different areas. It all depends on what you feel works best for you. Listen to your body!

ironshaolin
03-04-10, 2:27 pm
I like to squeeze them at the top. I use a Ramping method, typically using 3-5 reps per set. I start light, at the bottom I try to explosively pull it into my midsection, then squeeze for a second at the top. Next set, I'll add 15-20lbs and do another 3-5. Once I get to the point where I can't pull it explosively without heaving it, or I can't squeeze at the top, the excersise is done. Since doing them this way, I have found that I've been able to add more and more weight to it. I've used loads of up to 245 in the past, but the form was different. This way, I've gone from 185 to 215 in the past 4 weeks, and I feel it more in the back.

theharjmann
03-04-10, 4:36 pm
I agree with shizz here, lots of people fall into "love" with a certain exercise because they hear it should be a staple in everyones program. However this is not always the case, certain exercises work for different people and hit different areas. It all depends on what you feel works best for you. Listen to your body!

true say. squats dont work for me when it comes to overall thigh mass....well they do, but my glutes take most of the brunt of the work and i end up with a huge ass...which is fine if i have huge thighs also, but this is not the case.

Littlefry
03-04-10, 5:50 pm
true say. squats dont work for me when it comes to overall thigh mass....well they do, but my glutes take most of the brunt of the work and i end up with a huge ass...which is fine if i have huge thighs also, but this is not the case.

Exactly, some people more muscle are utlized during a movement and others not so much. Squats are a great example. Lot of people preform them and wonder why their quads are not growing, and it is usually the same case you have, their glutes are taking the brunt of the work not to say their quads are taking none.