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JasonG
04-19-10, 3:36 am
Have any of you guys dealt with this? It's when your muscle fascia won't expand to accomondate your muscle, most common in lower legs or arms. I went to the doc friday fearing a anterior deltoid or rotator cuff tear and brought up these small bumps in my calf muscles and serious shin splint feeling with numbness in my feet. He thinks it's compartment syndrome and referred me to a specialist tomorrow. Did some research and it looks pretty gruesome. First the stick needle probes in the muscle then measure the pressure on your muscles during rest and exercise. If warranted they cut the fascia so the muscle can expand out. I'm a little freaked out so wondering if anyone has gone through this?

ghost
04-19-10, 6:25 am
andrewT is going through this now, if you need, you can send him a PM with a link to the thread so he see's it.

JasonG
04-19-10, 3:17 pm
Ok cool thanks!

andrewT
04-19-10, 6:42 pm
hey Jason

wow man sounds pretty prickly!

let us know how it goes. you got me shittin myself now!
You asked about if it bothers me when running...no it doesn't luckily.
It only bothers me when I am doing seated calf raises with anything over 1 45lb plate! So today I did standing calf raises improvising with the smith machine and a raised platform.

when does it flare up for you?

ghost thanks for notifying Jason to inform me about this!

PORTERHOUSE
04-19-10, 6:46 pm
I have heard of this before. Isn't it sometimes associated w/creatine use?

I remember hearing/reading that somewhere. Like if you stop using creatine quickly, I dunno.

JeremyT
04-19-10, 10:44 pm
I have heard of this before. Isn't it sometimes associated w/creatine use?

I remember hearing/reading that somewhere. Like if you stop using creatine quickly, I dunno.

I very much doubt that creatine has much to do with it.

BigChrisF
04-20-10, 12:51 am
I have heard of this before. Isn't it sometimes associated w/creatine use?

I remember hearing/reading that somewhere. Like if you stop using creatine quickly, I dunno.

Creatine or any other supplement use has nothing to do with it. It is most commonly associated with crushing injuries, but it does have other causes as well. It results from some sort of restriction of fluid flow and a build up of internal pressure, putting pressure on the surrounding nerves and other tissues.

Chad Aichs had a problems with compartment syndrome in his leg. You might try and ask him about it over at his website or at elitefts

PORTERHOUSE
04-20-10, 8:56 am
Says its theoretical, but there ya go. There's plenty more info on it out there. I don't know if its true or not, I was just saying I read it somewhere before.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421498/

fenix237
04-20-10, 12:25 pm
awhile back i read an article in Powerlifting USA by JM Blakely that discussed fascia stretching in order to allow muscle mass to grow unimpeded. it was crazy- he talked about going on a massive binge, drinking a 12 pack of soda a day, slather mayo on everything you can, lots of fast food, etc...once you gain about 30-50lbs then diet down and get back to business- the loose skin will no longer hamper your efforts of adding muscle mass

JasonG
04-21-10, 2:45 am
hey Jason

wow man sounds pretty prickly!

let us know how it goes. you got me shittin myself now!
You asked about if it bothers me when running...no it doesn't luckily.
It only bothers me when I am doing seated calf raises with anything over 1 45lb plate! So today I did standing calf raises improvising with the smith machine and a raised platform.

when does it flare up for you?

ghost thanks for notifying Jason to inform me about this!

Well went to the appointment today and the surgeon didn't have the equipment so go to another place in about a month for a two hour test of running and not sure what else with the probes. It mostly flares up with just running or walking a distance at a fast pace. I do notice it a little during seated calf raises but not in a debilitating way like I do running.

I've taken 3 weeks off for my shoulder issue and haven't taken any creatine during this time. I'm still getting the flare ups. Today the doc asked if I thought all my supp use was contributing to it and I don't think so. He said I was on a ton of stuff and only listed animal pak, creatine mono and bcaas. Shit I didn't even mention shock therapy and the rest of the shit I take and that's a ton?? Wow.

JasonG
04-21-10, 2:51 am
awhile back i read an article in Powerlifting USA by JM Blakely that discussed fascia stretching in order to allow muscle mass to grow unimpeded. it was crazy- he talked about going on a massive binge, drinking a 12 pack of soda a day, slather mayo on everything you can, lots of fast food, etc...once you gain about 30-50lbs then diet down and get back to business- the loose skin will no longer hamper your efforts of adding muscle mass

I'm 5'4" and 200 lbs at low teens bodyfat. I'm also in the military so 30 - 50 lbs would cause some serious havoc on my body and my career lol. Also I don't think adding a ton of adipose tissue would help expanding your fascia at all but do the opposite with decreased blood flow to the extremities and high blood pressure. Also I don't think your skin hampers muscles mass. Skin is elastic and when it can't keep up you get stretch marks. Fascia is another matter. I know your just quoting but indeed that sounds crazy.

JasonG
04-21-10, 2:56 am
Says its theoretical, but there ya go. There's plenty more info on it out there. I don't know if its true or not, I was just saying I read it somewhere before.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421498/

Very interesting study. It does say with dehydration though so I wonder if drinking plenty of water like your supposed to would cause the same risks. I will be sure the other doc at my next appointment is aware of this and let you all know what he thinks.

joe-yamma
04-21-10, 8:40 am
i had a similar situation in high school (many many moons ago).

i had it in both legs and had the small hernias that you speak of as well.
i saw a specialist and he cut the fascia from my knee to my ankle on both legs (we did both legs at the same time).
i had it done in Sept, and i was ready for the first basketball practice of the year in december (i did have to bust my ass in PT and training though).

if your feet are going numb (both of mine did after 5-10 mins of running), then you need to get it taken care of.

hope that helps.

mritter3
04-21-10, 9:10 am
I have seen compartment syndrome a few times in the hospital usually it follows some sort of ortho surgery and yah treatment is brutal

andrewT
04-21-10, 9:11 am
This doesn't sound too good Jason!

hopefully you have a speedy recovery!
I'm thankful mine is not as bad pain from running/walking!

BigChrisF
04-21-10, 9:44 pm
Says its theoretical, but there ya go. There's plenty more info on it out there. I don't know if its true or not, I was just saying I read it somewhere before.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421498/

After reading through the study, they haven't made any kind of link between compartment syndrome and creatine use. They have shown that in dehydrated males on large doses of creatine will have an nearly insignificant increase in pressure(7 mm Hg) in the anterior tibialis over placebo after prolonged exercise. Realistically, what they have proven is increased fluid flow to exercised muscles despite significant dehydration.

JasonG
04-21-10, 11:00 pm
i had a similar situation in high school (many many moons ago).

i had it in both legs and had the small hernias that you speak of as well.
i saw a specialist and he cut the fascia from my knee to my ankle on both legs (we did both legs at the same time).
i had it done in Sept, and i was ready for the first basketball practice of the year in december (i did have to bust my ass in PT and training though).

if your feet are going numb (both of mine did after 5-10 mins of running), then you need to get it taken care of.

hope that helps.

Wow so do you have a pretty nasty scar on both legs? Were you able to walk after the surgery? It seems like you recovered pretty quickly though. I read that you have to do extensive therapy to minimize scar tissue and making the surgury a waste. I plan on doing whatever they recommend. Mine sounds the same as yours. The numbness in my feet comes after trying to push it further when the pain starts. My anterior calfves feel seized and my feet kind of slap the ground and numbness comes shortly after.

PORTERHOUSE
04-21-10, 11:20 pm
After reading through the study, they haven't made any kind of link between compartment syndrome and creatine use. They have shown that in dehydrated males on large doses of creatine will have an nearly insignificant increase in pressure(7 mm Hg) in the anterior tibialis over placebo after prolonged exercise. Realistically, what they have proven is increased fluid flow to exercised muscles despite significant dehydration.

yea like I said I just read it somewhere. Its a pretty rare condition so I'm not really too worried about it haha.

There's plenty of other literature on it out there as well.

BigChrisF
04-22-10, 1:59 am
yea like I said I just read it somewhere. Its a pretty rare condition so I'm not really too worried about it haha.

There's plenty of other literature on it out there as well.

I cruised through wikipedia and started to read the other resource on it, but I got as far as "we did the study on one subject" to paraphrase.

JasonG
05-25-10, 2:04 am
Well finally got tested after some tricare run arounds. My pre exercise pressures were high enough to recommend surgery and they could tell by looking at my calves that I had it with these bumps I have that are basically my muscles herniating through the fascia in spots. They watched me run on the treadmill and since my lower legs were kinda numb from the pressure check, I didn't feel any pain really but then they saw I was losing control of my feet and confirmed it right there, but pushed through for a bit to really make sure so I wouldn't have to go through the pressure check a third time. That shit was freaky! It didn't hurt that much but you could hear the pop as it pierced my fascia and could tell they were going really deep, right below my tibia bone from the side, yeah nasty. Anyway, my pressures were in the 90s and they actually said holy shit haha. So tomorrow I go to pre surgery consultation. I'm relieved that this is finally figured out. Still lifting and hopefully I won't be down too long after this goes down.

joe-yamma
05-25-10, 4:08 pm
Wow so do you have a pretty nasty scar on both legs? Were you able to walk after the surgery? It seems like you recovered pretty quickly though. I read that you have to do extensive therapy to minimize scar tissue and making the surgury a waste. I plan on doing whatever they recommend. Mine sounds the same as yours. The numbness in my feet comes after trying to push it further when the pain starts. My anterior calfves feel seized and my feet kind of slap the ground and numbness comes shortly after.
they did both legs at the same time. i had 39 staples in my legs.

i had to stay in bed for a couple of days and then i could walk around (school) on crutches.
i had to sort of "duck walk" since i could not pronate or supinate my feet.
i had to also have wrapped pretty tightly in ACE bandages for the first month or so.

this was sophomore year in high school, so i was in very very good shape and recovered relatively quickly.

that was back int he early-90's, so i'm guessing they have some better ways to deal with the rehab/recovery, etc by now.

good thing to finally know what is wrong and get on your way towards fixing it.
keep your head up and keep us posted.

JasonG
06-02-10, 10:23 pm
they did both legs at the same time. i had 39 staples in my legs.

i had to stay in bed for a couple of days and then i could walk around (school) on crutches.
i had to sort of "duck walk" since i could not pronate or supinate my feet.
i had to also have wrapped pretty tightly in ACE bandages for the first month or so.

this was sophomore year in high school, so i was in very very good shape and recovered relatively quickly.

that was back int he early-90's, so i'm guessing they have some better ways to deal with the rehab/recovery, etc by now.

good thing to finally know what is wrong and get on your way towards fixing it.
keep your head up and keep us posted.

Just had the surgery today and all went well. Getting into the house was an obstacle but just kinda shuffled my feet with crutches to take the weight off my legs. I'm wrapped up in ace bandages and haven't looked to see how big the incision is. It's pretty tender and can't move my feet other than my toes yet. Now just hoping for a speedy recovery so I can get back to the iron. I'll start a new journey when that becomes possible.

andrewT
06-03-10, 4:28 pm
good luck man!

this sounds like it is quite the bitch of cut and snip! hopefully your back on your feet in no time.

the power of the mind does great things man!

Deathride
06-03-10, 6:25 pm
Thats quite hardcore.....normally compartment syndrome follows trauma to the lower limbs causing bleeding into the muscle. Bleeding takes up space, compresses blood flow, hence numbness and weakness distally.

Really hope it heals well for you, dude. Now you have no fascia to hold you back!

Firedrake
06-06-10, 10:08 pm
Best of luck to you! Here's hoping that they can help release the pressure!