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View Full Version : There are no shortcuts in this game.



Aggression
06-02-10, 9:49 am
I know this has been said time and time before, but I think it needs to be reiterated a bit. I've been getting a lot of questions ranging from beginners to more experienced people who just can't seem to figure out the basic formula. They bust their ass in the gym for days, months, years, and they don't get the results they're looking for. Though there can be many contributing factors for this lack of progress, one stands out above the rest:

"I want to get cut and build muscle at the same time, what you do recommend?"

Buddy, when you figure out that magic formula, you let me know! I get e-mails, PMs, and face-to-face questions that are loosely similar to the above question on a daily basis. Sometimes I check my inbox and its almost as if one person created 10 different names to ask the same question, hoping to get a different response each time. My short answer is always the same, "Its impossible". Ok, it may not be impossible, but its damn near close.

Let me just iron out the details for those less informed ..

Gaining muscle mass is simple. You need to be eating more calories than you burn. Everyone talks about 'maintenance level of calories', or '500 calories above maintenance'. Huh? What are we? Toyotas? Maintenance? I don't think it gets that complicated to where one needs to calculate their 'maintenance level' and then add 500 in there. Want an easier way? Just start eating. If you're not gaining ~1lb per week, then increase your food intake. If you're not gaining while eating 7oz of protein per meal, then make it 8. A simple addition of 1oz per meal can go a long way when you're consuming 6, 7, or 8 meals per day. Throw a couple cheats in there for good measure and to shock the metabolism. The treadmill is the enemy.

Bulking essentials:
Whole eggs
Red meat
Rice
Pasta
Milk
Animal M-stak
Universal Real Gains
Universal Torrent

*Notice I have whole foods listed ahead of supplements. That's because you can take M-stak year round if you want, but unless you're supplying your body with enough calories to grow, none of those supplements will work. Don't try guzzling down 6 Real Gains shakes per day, neither.

Getting 'cut' is also very simple. You need to be eating less calories than you burn. 'Eat 500 below maintenance'. Now you have to bust out the calculator and Fitday.com again? No. Just take what you're eating now and slowly and steadily drop some food. Start off by cleaning up the diet, eliminating all junks foods, sugars, etc. Then as times passes, drop some carbs first. As with bulking, you'll want to drop ~1lb per week. Start off with adding in some cardio a few times per week, first thing in the morning and/or postWO. Don't jump on the cardio 6x/week for 60minutes. You'll lose way too much muscle. Just as you slowly drop calories, you need to slowly increase the cardio. Start with 3-4x/week for about 30min and work up from there.

Cutting essentials:
egg whites
turkey
oats
sweet potatoes
green veggies
Animal Cuts
Universal Torrent Zero
Liquid CarniTech

*Again, without the diet being spot on, you won't get shit from Cuts or the rest of the supplements I have personally used/recommend.

Let's take away the key points here:
1. "Gaining muscle mass is simple. You need to be eating more calories than you burn."
2. "Getting 'cut' is also very simple. You need to be eating less calories than you burn."

Now the next thing I see coming is, ''Well, can't I do one week of excess calories and the next week low calories?". Sorry, brother. That won't 'cut' it either. For each goal, you need to stick with it for weeks/months in order to see results. You can't keep switching things up, confusing your body. You'll never get anywhere.

Now there IS a bit of an exception here. If you're just starting out, you can essentially do both. If you carefully monitor your diet year-round, you can easily add some muscle mass while staying lean, giving the appearance of being 'cut' while you're adding mass. This however only works with those people who are fairly lean as they start out. If you're overweight, you need to make a decision; cut the flab now and start a new base, or build mass on top of what you have now, and then cut later.

If you still have any questions after reading this, hit me up with a PM and I'll be glad to answer any and all questions, as long as they don't read, 'How do I gain muscles and get cut at the same time?"

Fearless Rabbit
06-02-10, 10:26 am
Now there IS a bit of an exception here. If you're just starting out, you can essentially do both. If you carefully monitor your diet year-round, you can easily add some muscle mass while staying lean, giving the appearance of being 'cut' while you're adding mass. This however only works with those people who are fairly lean as they start out. If you're overweight, you need to make a decision; cut the flab now and start a new base, or build mass on top of what you have now, and then cut later.

Great read.

I would dare to say this may be the most important thing of all you said. It all depends on your goal, and your starting base. As most people around here do not compete, this is the "bingo" moment.
I am speaking from my own experience, as I`m on a "cut", but I also add muscle size at a same time. Not to fast, not without strict discipline, but I`m slowly doing it. The reason I can do this is because my starting point was not professional - no enormous muscles, and no 6% bf, with lots of space for improvement in both areas. With better diet, removed simple carbs, added good fats, and 2x/week cardio, I`m getting leaner with nice vascularity, and getting fuller muscles also.

It would also be good to mention that it is possible to bulk, without getting (more) excess fat. Even I personally didn`t try it, lots of people report good results. Needless to say, thay are mostly not professional bodybuilders.

http://stronglifts.com/anabolic-diet-101-the-definite-anabolic-diet-guide/

One can also try ketogenic diet in order to bulk "clean".

In a nutshell, anything IS possible, but if it fits your starting point, your goals, and most importantly - if you have the guts to make it happen.

Aggression
06-02-10, 10:29 am
It would also be good to mention that it is possible to bulk, without getting (more) excess fat. Even I personally didn`t try it, lots of people report good results. Needless to say, thay are mostly not professional bodybuilders.

When truly bulking, its inevitable that you'll gain some fat. It comes with the territory, but this is what I was getting at in my post. Those who aren't trying to compete can easily gain lean muscle mass while staying very lean. No need to gain 50lbs in 6 months, but you can easily add 10lbs of pure muscle mass in 12 months through strict dieting and hard training. For those that have no wishes to step on stage, this is the route I recommend, if they have the discipline.

Fearless Rabbit
06-02-10, 1:02 pm
When you think about it, those dates and time limitations make all the difference..

Funky
06-02-10, 1:09 pm
Enjoyed the read A! People must realize anything good will take time and your body takes time and a lot of patience to get to know it well!!

Ricky P
06-02-10, 1:18 pm
Real good stuff, brother. Bottom line is everyone knows how to do it, just need the discipline to get it done - That is the hard part.

ontheEDGE
06-02-10, 1:31 pm
When truly bulking, its inevitable that you'll gain some fat. It comes with the territory, but this is what I was getting at in my post. Those who aren't trying to compete can easily gain lean muscle mass while staying very lean. No need to gain 50lbs in 6 months, but you can easily add 10lbs of pure muscle mass in 12 months through strict dieting and hard training. For those that have no wishes to step on stage, this is the route I recommend, if they have the discipline.

this is what I'm going for: a slow and steady bulk. I'm gonna try this for a year, eating slightly more than I burn, HIT cardio 2-3 times a week, hoping to cycle the whole animal line as I go (except pak n nitro of course).

Thanks for this thread, very encouraging as I had some doubts.

Birdman
06-02-10, 2:37 pm
Couldn't agree more bro. I too have people asking me that inevitable question what seems like daily. I finally got fed up enough that I say "What does it take to grow muscle/gain weight? What does it take to lose fat/weight?" *wait for answers* "Exactly, so can you do both at once? Rhetorical question, NO YOU CAN'T."

Beowulf
06-02-10, 2:41 pm
The message is short and sweet and true.

Kain81
06-02-10, 3:37 pm
Seems people always want a cheat code or a get fit quick idea.... then on the other end of the spectrum you have the fanatics who OVER analyze and complicate it waaaay to much.

Eat big to get big.

Lift big to get big.

Repeat.

J-Dawg
06-02-10, 4:42 pm
It seems too simple A, haha. But you're right, to start either the cutting process or the mass gaining process, it is simple--consistency, realistic goals, good training routine, good diet and you're set. Block out all of the nonsense that people will throw your way and be consistent with those basics and you're good to go. In short of course.

FewL4no1
06-02-10, 6:33 pm
A great read Aggression, thanks for throwing some of us back into reality, as it seems the BS can sometimes cloud our minds.

There are definite discrepancies from person to person as far as what kind of calories to eat while on a "cut," but the general idea in your post is spot on and is the most applicable type of "broad brush stroke" information.

C.Coronato
06-03-10, 9:14 am
Solid brother. This is a must read for everyone, new and old. Thanks homie.

B Con
06-03-10, 9:25 am
My main man is preaching the GOSPEL!!!!

SportPharma Rep
06-03-10, 9:48 am
Solid writeup up Aggression!

Birdman
06-03-10, 10:17 am
This should be put in the article section of the site. Definitely a great right up.

PORTERHOUSE
06-03-10, 10:32 am
When truly bulking, its inevitable that you'll gain some fat. It comes with the territory, but this is what I was getting at in my post. Those who aren't trying to compete can easily gain lean muscle mass while staying very lean. No need to gain 50lbs in 6 months, but you can easily add 10lbs of pure muscle mass in 12 months through strict dieting and hard training. For those that have no wishes to step on stage, this is the route I recommend, if they have the discipline.

This right here sums up a great point that so many people don't seem to understand. If your not competing you don't necessarily need a traditional bulk/cut cycle. You can do it sure, but it is also possible to keep lean year round and still make great progress.

HatemElAkkad
06-14-10, 9:43 am
I completely agree with all what was being said....

im not a competing bodybuilder, i train to become stronger, and bigger or more ripped, depending on how i look and feel....
the question is....how do you start off bulking right?
like for me i gain fat very easily and ive been cutting for quite some time now to lose the flab...im definitely looking much better, and surprisingly my strength has actually increased since i started my cut......but still i would be much better off with a lot more lean muscle mass

how do you measure how much carbs and fats do you need? is there a certain formula for that?
and what do you guys think of carb and fat cycling while bulking?

i mean i care very much about staying lean, but i can also sacrifice that just a little bit for muscle mass, as long as i dont look like a bag of blubber....

Eat train and sleep fellas!

Aggression
06-14-10, 9:57 am
the question is....how do you start off bulking right?
like for me i gain fat very easily and ive been cutting for quite some time now to lose the flab...im definitely looking much better, and surprisingly my strength has actually increased since i started my cut......but still i would be much better off with a lot more lean muscle mass

how do you measure how much carbs and fats do you need? is there a certain formula for that?
and what do you guys think of carb and fat cycling while bulking?

i mean i care very much about staying lean, but i can also sacrifice that just a little bit for muscle mass, as long as i dont look like a bag of blubber....!

To start off bulking, just take your 'cut' diet and add more food. Simple. Add a bit more carbs to start off. And then add more protein per meal. Do it in small increments over time and you'll be able to gain solid weight.

There are plenty of formulas out there to help you calculate ratios, macros, etc. Personally, I think its all a load of shit. Just take what you have now and steadily increase the foods and you'll gain weight. Simple. Everyone responds differently to foods. Me? I'm carb sensitive. My diet utilizes carbs only when necessary; breakfast, preWO and postWO. The rest of the day's meals contain protein/fats. On weekends I'll carb load a little bit to shock the body and its metabolism. I've been doing this while cutting for 8 weeks and I've shed 12lbs+. Find what works for you and stick with it.

HatemElAkkad
06-14-10, 10:36 am
To start off bulking, just take your 'cut' diet and add more food. Simple. Add a bit more carbs to start off. And then add more protein per meal. Do it in small increments over time and you'll be able to gain solid weight.

There are plenty of formulas out there to help you calculate ratios, macros, etc. Personally, I think its all a load of shit. Just take what you have now and steadily increase the foods and you'll gain weight. Simple. Everyone responds differently to foods. Me? I'm carb sensitive. My diet utilizes carbs only when necessary; breakfast, preWO and postWO. The rest of the day's meals contain protein/fats. On weekends I'll carb load a little bit to shock the body and its metabolism. I've been doing this while cutting for 8 weeks and I've shed 12lbs+. Find what works for you and stick with it.

Sounds great man....
yeah i guess the formulas can get a little well like a lot of shit...its just that i worked hard on my cutting and i dont wanna gain all that shit again....

but yeah i guess im gonna do what you said, do it slowly and increase every week....

C.Coronato
07-13-10, 4:50 pm
Bumping because more people need to read this. Solid thanks A.

Cellardweller
07-13-10, 5:47 pm
Great thread Aggression. I not competing and am wanting to train for strength and size, but my bodyfat is around 23%. I'd like to loose 20-30lbs. Should I do a cut or just adjust my diet? I'm sure I'd feel more energy if I loose the pounds besides looking better. Should I swap out STAK for CUTS in my supp routine or continue doing STAK cycles and just cut carbs?

Aggression
07-14-10, 8:25 am
Great thread Aggression. I not competing and am wanting to train for strength and size, but my bodyfat is around 23%. I'd like to loose 20-30lbs. Should I do a cut or just adjust my diet? I'm sure I'd feel more energy if I loose the pounds besides looking better. Should I swap out STAK for CUTS in my supp routine or continue doing STAK cycles and just cut carbs?

I would suggest really cleaning up your diet first and foremost. Worry about supplements later on down the road. Take a look at yourself in the mirror. Would you rather drop weight now and then build back up? Or just eat better and give your body time to recomp? Post up your height and weight, along with your diet. I can see what changes need to be made.

boyer77
07-14-10, 9:02 am
Thanks A, I needed that little reminder lesson!

martinez43
07-14-10, 12:24 pm
Great thread... Short and to the point.

Cellardweller
07-14-10, 3:54 pm
My question was more of a should I try to loose the weight fast or over a period of time thing and not so much a supp one. Typically I'm eating

5 eggs (4 wt, 1 whole), PAK and a bannana for breakfast (midnight guy so breakfast is like 2 PM)
workout
PWO shake (Torrent w/ one scoop Ultra Whey Pro)
whatever is for dinner
protein bar and an apple
2 PB&Js
Real Gains shake
sometimes I have another meal like more eggs, leftovers maybe just yogurt.

Diet isn't set like I want it to be. Sometimes there's fast food in there. That has to stop. This is where I step up my meal planning. That's one of my goals in this. I'm 5ft 11 in, 274lbs, 23% BF. I don't think I've been eating enough, but now I want to loose weight. So far my weight hasn't gone up in the last 2-3 months but my strength has and I've seen changes in my body. I have 3 weeks left on my current routine then I want to focus on dropping some weight for the following 6 weeks. I was thinking about 25lbs.