View Full Version : Chest Re-evaluation?
Hey Guys,
I know there have been a few chest threads the past couple days but none can address my specific problem. I do a chest/biceps day. I start off with my 4 x 6 barbell bench. Move on to my 4 x 8-9 db inclines. Then, to my 4 x 8-9 db flat bench. Finally, to finish it off, I do my 4 x 8-9 db flyes. Now, while I'm doing this my chest is getting really fatigued, as my reps get harder and harder, naturally. However, my chest pump always leaves me quick, and I can't get that hugely pumped feeling. I'm obviously doing enough volume, and my form is good for every exercise. Why does my pump leave so quick? Is there something I should know about REALLY isolating that chest? Should I change my exercises? I was thinking about instead of those db flyes throwing in some machine flyes for closer to 10-12 reps (3-4 sets) to "finish" the chest off. Or is a chest pump naturally shorter compared to say arms or calves? I need all the help I can get here guys. Thanks.
P_Venkman
02-26-07, 8:06 pm
It kinda sounds like your overworking your chest in one workout. 16 sets is alot for chest. Try lowering it to no more than 12 sets, and go all out on those 12 sets. Also, the most intense sets are the ones that give the most pump, so keep the weights heavy and go to absolute failure. For flat bench try bringing the reps up to 10-12, as this should cause more blood flow to the muscle. Im not sayin that 12 is the magic number, you gotta go by how your body feels. Work until you feel a nice pump, then stop. Any more than that and you'll actually feel your pump start to decline.
I know I wanted advice... but that's not the best to be honest. Total failure every set? Hello CNS recovery issues. And why would I decrease the sets? Another thing, I keep the barbell reps to 4 x 6 to go more for strength, so I don't want high reps (notice the other 12 sets with higher reps?). Thanks for trying though.
I think 16 is a lot too. May not be the problem though. Have you been switching your routine up enough? Also, during benching try to keep your shoulder blades squeezed together as to puff out the chest a bit more.
Is your grip somewhere near shoulder width or a little wider?
As long as your numbers are progressing, there may not be a problem at all. Just as with bodyparts being sore, you may just have different pump extremities for certain parts. I know for me I may get a great pump for bis or chest but not so much for some other parts. So how's your progress, cause you should be more concerned with that.
Yeah, and the whole strength training is another thing. When I go with lower reps I tend to get a much lesser pump with any bodypart, I even tend to be less sore the next day as well. So it is actually quite possible you're fine.
The Wanderer
02-26-07, 8:19 pm
I know I wanted advice... but that's not the best to be honest. Total failure every set? Hello CNS recovery issues. And why would I decrease the sets? Another thing, I keep the barbell reps to 4 x 6 to go more for strength, so I don't want high reps (notice the other 12 sets with higher reps?). Thanks for trying though.
You are overtrainning, 16 sets is huge. As the other guy said, use a fewer amount of sets. Don't necessarily go all out on every set, but make sure they are done well. Anyways, if you know advice you want why are you asking people, if someone tells you something, listen up to it. It might not always be sound but If you read up on it you will see he is right.
So your telling me 4 less sets a week is going to make all the difference? This is the third week I've been doing this dude... I don't believe that I've sucessfully overtrained my chest in three weeks when I rest a full 6 days before doing it again...
BUT, just to see if it will make a difference, I'll take the sets down to three for the db inclines, db flat, and flys. To NickSP: yea I'm keeping my grip good and those shoulder blades pinched together. And with the strength training I figured the higher volume/higher rep sets later would compensate for that. So now I'll be doing 12-13 sets a week for chest and just making sure my form is sound. Thanks guys.
Wanderer I wasn't being a dick I really did appreciate the advice... I just hate when people scream overtraining, especially when they don't know my rest situation. I'm taking the sets down to see if that makes a difference... and I might go to heavy machine flys to really isolate the chest and keep the shoulders and tris out of the movement. Sorry if I offended you.
P_Venkman
02-26-07, 8:39 pm
CNS recovery depends on each person, so you gotta determine that for yourself. That was my bad, I didnt necessarily mean take every set to failure, what I meant was do your sets in your typical fashion but make sure you are going to absolute failure, giving it your all and not stopping short. Also I have no idea what your goals are.... strength, size, etc. But I do know that lower reps give less of a pump. Going as heavy as you can for around 10 reps usually yields the best pump, that is all Im tryin to say...
P_Venkman
02-26-07, 8:41 pm
So your telling me 4 less sets a week is going to make all the difference? This is the third week I've been doing this dude... I don't believe that I've sucessfully overtrained my chest in three weeks when I rest a full 6 days before doing it again...
BUT, just to see if it will make a difference, I'll take the sets down to three for the db inclines, db flat, and flys. To NickSP: yea I'm keeping my grip good and those shoulder blades pinched together. And with the strength training I figured the higher volume/higher rep sets later would compensate for that. So now I'll be doing 12-13 sets a week for chest and just making sure my form is sound. Thanks guys.
Wanderer I wasn't being a dick I really did appreciate the advice... I just hate when people scream overtraining, especially when they don't know my rest situation. I'm taking the sets down to see if that makes a difference... and I might go to heavy machine flys to really isolate the chest and keep the shoulders and tris out of the movement. Sorry if I offended you.
Bro I wasn't screaming overtraining at all. But there is a point you will reach when your pump will diminish. I wouldnt consider it overtraining, just unproductive.
Alright thanks for explaining. You were addressing the pump situation. As you can see I ended up taking what you said into consideration because you're right about the whole pump-diminishing thing. I really was sorry when I said that and what you said makes sense. No harm intended.
Now that I think about it... when I pick up those dumbbells for that fourth set, the reps drop a lot, and I don't really seem to get much out of it. I'm really sorry again.
P_Venkman
02-26-07, 8:46 pm
Alright thanks for explaining. You were addressing the pump situation. As you can see I ended up taking what you said into consideration because you're right about the whole pump-diminishing thing. I really was sorry when I said that and what you said makes sense. No harm intended.
None taken bro, its all good. Hope that works out for ya too....
While we're on the subject might as well adress some others. Here's some other sets per bodypart... what do you guys think?
Shoulders: 16 sets
Biceps: 8 sets
Triceps: 8 sets
Chest: 16 sets
Back: 20 sets
Legs: 20 sets
These are all direct sets. Bis and tris get hit again on back and chest day of course, so the sets are a little lower. Do you think the shoulder, back, or leg volume is a bit much? I like to get that big pump and those volumes have been okay so far for everything but chest. Like for back especially you gotta get your dead and traps in and then all your rowing... so 20 sets adds up pretty quick. I been doing 4 sets of military, then 4 of all the raises for shoulders. I do squats, leg presses, ham curls, extensions and calf raises all for 4 sets on leg day. Should I go to maybe three sets of everything to lower that volume? Thanks guys.
While we're on the subject might as well adress some others. Here's some other sets per bodypart... what do you guys think?
Shoulders: 16 sets
Biceps: 8 sets
Triceps: 8 sets
Chest: 16 sets
Back: 20 sets
Legs: 20 sets
These are all direct sets. Bis and tris get hit again on back and chest day of course, so the sets are a little lower. Do you think the shoulder, back, or leg volume is a bit much? I like to get that big pump and those volumes have been okay so far for everything but chest. Like for back especially you gotta get your dead and traps in and then all your rowing... so 20 sets adds up pretty quick. I been doing 4 sets of military, then 4 of all the raises for shoulders. I do squats, leg presses, ham curls, extensions and calf raises all for 4 sets on leg day. Should I go to maybe three sets of everything to lower that volume? Thanks guys.
Owwch 16 for shoulders? Fronts get hit pretty hard with benching and rears get hit on back day, not to mention they're already a really small muscle. I keep em to about the same range I use for bis and tris (8-11, bis are at the lower end of that). Legs or back should be fine. Sometimes I like to do my traps on a separated day from back day, so they get hit twice just like arms - once directly, once indirectly (deads). Play around with the volume if you want, "It all works, it just doesn't all work all the time."
Kiwi129
02-26-07, 10:52 pm
Alright so I'm lowering the shoulder and chest volumes. I was looking at other guys' logs and the pros aren't even doing that many sets for legs and back. I'll probably take most of those down to three intense, a tad heavier, sets. That'll reduce all my sets like so:
Shoulders: 11 sets
Biceps: 8 sets
Triceps: 8 sets
Chest: 12 sets
Back: 16 sets
Legs: 16 sets
I think that's a little more reasonable for me. I should get a better pump probably from working a little less, a little more intense. I'm glad you guys could help me out with this stuff. The only reason back and legs are still even that high are because I do my traps on back day and calves with my legs. If you take those sets out and gave them their own day, like some guys do, that would make only 13 sets for leg day and 13 sets for back day. Much more reasonable and will probably promote some better gains for me. Thanks a ton guys.
No prob. And yeah that ain't too much including traps, I separate them often but right now I actually have em on back day. Right now I've got:
back: 19 including 4 for traps
chest: 12
Legs: 18 including 4 for calves
tris: 9
bis: 7
shoulders: 11
Kiwi129
02-26-07, 11:42 pm
Awesome dude thanks so much. I think if I would've kept up at that volume my gains would've stagnated quick. I gotta keep mixing up the exercises, exercise order, and rep ranges too. I finally got it down. I just don't know how I looked past it though. Like my bis and tris have been fine, awesome pump... back was okay too... but I would get a good pump and it would just go away, I didn't think it was because of all the extra sets I was doing. I wanted to keep my pump and then continued to push it right on out the door. Thanks guys again... wow I was blind.
BitterNdThenSome
02-27-07, 12:49 am
volume is all a matter of personal response, some people respond to high volume, others to low volume. generally speaking, keep your reps around 8-12 for maximum hypertrophy (and maximum pump). you can throw in a set or two of 4-6 rep compound movements for strength, but know the real growth takes place in the 8-12 rep range. movements like dumbbell presses and flies should remain in the 10-12 range, while incline/decline/flat barbell presses can hover a littler lower (8-12). remember, form is absolutely critical. try getting in some carbs, protein and water right before you lift, they play big roles in getting a solid pump.