Mainly a Question Regarding Biceps

[kryptiq]

As some of you might've seen from my journey I have been told a few times the amount of volume I do for biceps/triceps is just unnecessary. How would you guys go about fixing this, I'd love to leave the gym a bit earlier but just cannot leave without a good pump. After 4-6 sets of 40-50lb curls sometimes I feel it but 15mins later I feel fine again unless I do heavy heavy volume. What would you change?

Next question: If you didn't have a spotter or an experienced PL'er to teach you how to squat/deadlift properly is it worth trying out? I am not looking to hurt myself since I can gain mass without doing these things, but I hear that they would greatly improve my workouts and add something new to my lifting arsenal which would allow me to build my back/shoulders/legs much faster....would you risk it?

[Redbeard]

As far as Squatting or Deadlifting without guidance, just keep the weight low at first and check yourself in the mirror. Read a lot about them and watch videos - this will help keep proper form and the techniques for achieving it in the back of your mind. Every once in a while I'll go out and watch videos and see if there's something I can learn and then I'll go back to the gym and evaluate my form a little more.

And squat in the power rack. If you fail, just put the weight down. Plus the pins can act as a visual reference for whether you're going low enough.

As far as your biceps, I don't know what to say. Everyone's different. A pump can feel pimp, but it isn't necessary for growth. Experiment a little. I like 4 sets in the 6-8 range on 3 exercises, maybe 4 if I've got an excess of time and energy. You don't have to be feeling it for hours in order to be growing. You just need to feel it while you're doing it, go a little heavy, go to failure, and then throw some protein at it.

[kryptiq]

As far as Squatting or Dead lifting without guidance, just keep the weight low at first and check yourself in the mirror. Read a lot about them and watch videos - this will help keep proper form and the techniques for achieving it in the back of your mind. Every once in a while I'll go out and watch videos and see if there's something I can learn and then I'll go back to the gym and evaluate my form a little more.

And squat in the power rack. If you fail, just put the weight down. Plus the pins can act as a visual reference for whether you're going low enough.

As far as your biceps, I don't know what to say. Everyone's different. A pump can feel pimp, but it isn't necessary for growth. Experiment a little. I like 4 sets in the 6-8 range on 3 exercises, maybe 4 if I've got an excess of time and energy. You don't have to be feeling it for hours in order to be growing. You just need to feel it while you're doing it, go a little heavy, go to failure, and then throw some protein at it.

Thanks for the advice, as for the dead lifts I am going to spend half the session tomorrow working on that for my first time.

Squats off the machine are going to kick my ass since I'm used to doing hack squats on the machine, but we'll see how it goes.

Here's my last bicep workout from my journey, I mean it was a lot and it took a long ass time but my arms felt fine the next day. I definitely couldn't do that 2 days in a row but I don't think something this intense would be an issue say 2 times each week. What do you think?



Long session today folks, 2hrs 45mins worth of Bicep tearing training:

DB Curls:
30x10x10
40x10x10x10x10x10
**2min break**
50x10x10x10x10x10x10x8
**5min break**
60x12x10x8
40x10x10


Cable V-Bar Curls

100x10x10
120x10x8
**rest 5min**
140x10x10x10
160x3

BB Curls(Close Grip)

80x10x10
90x10x5

Cable V-Bar Tricep Pull Down

100x10x10x10x10
120x10x10x8
**1min 30s break**
140x10x8

Toning DB Curls

30x20x20x25
20x50x50x35
15x75x60x80x43 <--pump'd as can be so I gave up here

Took 2 packs of Agent O which definitely gave me the energy to pull through like a true animal today. I really don't think I could curl those 60lb DB's w/o it at this point. The curls did give me huge cuts from the V-bar below the thumb(with gloves on) and my hand is cut the hell up from the 60lb'ers I need more wrist support.


After that I felt the pump real good for say 45mins after the workout but after that I felt fine again, not even too tired since I had some real great meals that day(steak+rice etc).

[Redbeard]

Dude, that's 49 sets of bicep work. I've been scolded by some of the long-time Animals for doing 20! And almost 3 hours. I mean, just the fact that you're doing 60 pound DB curls (assuming they're not sloppy) probably puts you in a class ahead of me so I'm hesitant to criticize; but that really seems like overwork. If you're thinking of doing that twice a week, what are you doing with the rest of your body?

And yes, doing squats off the machine will kick your ass. That's what they're supposed to do! But there's nothing more gratifying than breaking PRs on squat (breaking PRs on deads comes a close second).

[prowrestler]

do you train to feel a nice pump...or do you train to grow and get stronger?

ps, this pump shit training causes some severe lactic acid injuries. my sports therapist tells me all the time when he works on me...are friend whos a jacked dude at 250lbs,5 11, low body fat got all his muscle injuries from doing dumb shit like over pumping his muscles. 'IT FEELS GOOD!" what is actually happening is the muscle is suffocating and waste is building up inside of it. it aint blood thats filling up in there during your set. blood is blocked actually.

so pump shit should be done with moderation. its about progress, not feeling cool

[kryptiq]

Dude, that's 49 sets of bicep work. I've been scolded by some of the long-time Animals for doing 20! And almost 3 hours. I mean, just the fact that you're doing 60 pound DB curls (assuming they're not sloppy) probably puts you in a class ahead of me so I'm hesitant to criticize; but that really seems like overwork. If you're thinking of doing that twice a week, what are you doing with the rest of your body?

And yes, doing squats off the machine will kick your ass. That's what they're supposed to do! But there's nothing more gratifying than breaking PRs on squat (breaking PRs on deads comes a close second).

Thanks and the 60lb curls got sloppy the first set was pretty damn good though. I am taking the best parts of that unusually long workout and using them to create a good 1hr routine. That was a ridiculously energetic day =)

[Legacy]

Saw your bicep workout and too me looked pretty ridiculous, i think you really need to take it down a few notches bro. This is an example of my bicep routine. I do all reps slow and controlled and for arms I never worry about the weight I am doing unless I am doing close grip bench presses for tris.

Dumbbell or hammer Curls 3-4 sets x 12-15 reps
Barbell Curl 3-4 sets x 10-15 reps
Cable concentration curl 3-4 sets x 12 reps

[Machine]

"Men only consider their needs; never their abilities"
Napoleon Bonaparte


Do you even consider why it is that you do what it is that you do? I will offer my position; then you can tell me where I am wrong.


Biceps are most appropriately trained through an excersise selection predicated upon the following:

1.) An exercise which emphasizes pure strength: Standing Barbell Curls - 3 sets

2.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of pre-strectch: Seated Inclined DBell Curls - 3 sets

3.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of isolation: DBell Concentration Curls - 3 sets

This is an approach whose strength lies in its simplicity, and is time tested to produce muscular gains in the biceps. Now tell me where my thinking is skewed.

MACHINE

[hjayss]

well said machine....you dont need that much work on bicep day remember you grow through eating and sleeping to regenerate those torn muscles...

[kryptiq]

Thanks brothers, I'll be changing things up completely int he next week or two based on the info here and advice given in my journey. The we will see how growth improves, and Machine I never looked at it that way I always got myself all excited to hit the gym then just went until complete failure. I really appreciate the help offered here, again thanks all.

[pushin weight]

"Men only consider their needs; never their abilities"
Napoleon Bonaparte


Do you even consider why it is that you do what it is that you do? I will offer my position; then you can tell me where I am wrong.


Biceps are most appropriately trained through an excersise selection predicated upon the following:

1.) An exercise which emphasizes pure strength: Standing Barbell Curls - 3 sets

2.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of pre-strectch: Seated Inclined DBell Curls - 3 sets

3.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of isolation: DBell Concentration Curls - 3 sets

This is an approach whose strength lies in its simplicity, and is time tested to produce muscular gains in the biceps. Now tell me where my thinking is skewed.

MACHINE

This is probably the most beneficial piece of info ive read regarding bicep manipulation,very solid advice.

[Aggression]

Machine hit it on the head, bro. Get in, rip shit up, and leave.

[intoodeep25]

Machine hit it on the head, bro. Get in, rip shit up, and leave.

i think machine hit it right on both heads *cheesy bicep joke* hahaha

[MRmichael.hooker]

"Men only consider their needs; never their abilities"
Napoleon Bonaparte


Do you even consider why it is that you do what it is that you do? I will offer my position; then you can tell me where I am wrong.


Biceps are most appropriately trained through an excersise selection predicated upon the following:

1.) An exercise which emphasizes pure strength: Standing Barbell Curls - 3 sets

2.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of pre-strectch: Seated Inclined DBell Curls - 3 sets

3.) An exercise which emphasizes a position of isolation: DBell Concentration Curls - 3 sets

This is an approach whose strength lies in its simplicity, and is time tested to produce muscular gains in the biceps. Now tell me where my thinking is skewed.

MACHINE

fantastic bro

[Mauricio]

yo machine, if it's pure strength why do you go for 3 sets? why not go all out on 1 set of each exercise instead of holding it for the last 3rd? if you say to ensure full stimulation of all the fibers, does that leave the first set short of intensity?

[Deathride]

I'd take Machine's logic and crescendo the weight much like a 5/3/1 principle. Gradually work up getting a good 8-10 reps in for the weight, up it and try for 8-10. For your 'max' set, get as many as you can..... I've curled 135 for about 5 and felt more pumped that doing 90 for 10-12....

[kryptiq]

I've tailored my workouts to my body and now I alternate tricep and bicep exercises at the beginning and end of every workout. I'm seeing very noticeable gains and haven't experienced any pain so far. Some of the bicep workouts people have posted just don't work well with my body.

[Machine]

yo machine, if it's pure strength why do you go for 3 sets? why not go all out on 1 set of each exercise instead of holding it for the last 3rd? if you say to ensure full stimulation of all the fibers, does that leave the first set short of intensity?

The exercise denotes a "position" of pure strength; the comment is more physiological than set and rep related. Sets and reps I leave to the individual, but the logic of the positional set up speaks for itself.

MACHINE

[Mauricio]

thanks bro, it does put the muscle under the most stress if done right, good advice.