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BarbellManiac
10-24-10, 7:14 pm
Is it better to use perfect form with lighter weight or a bit of a swing with a heavier weight? I know form is crucial, but is a bit of swing fine, since you are lifting heavier?

Cellardweller
10-24-10, 7:56 pm
I don't like stressing my middle back too much, so I stick to what I can handle with good form.

msktyshha
10-24-10, 8:53 pm
pick a weight you can do with good form and next week add 5-10lbs to it even if u have to swing the weight a little.

Lowdown5
10-24-10, 9:07 pm
pick a weight you can do with good form and next week add 5-10lbs to it even if u have to swing the weight a little.

So, use good form one week and then the next start to cheat? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Shouldn't proper form be used all the time as weight is increased?

If I misread or misinterpruted what you wrote I do apologize.

PORTERHOUSE
10-24-10, 9:27 pm
Controlled cheating can be a good tactic to use every now and then, but there is a technique to it just like any other movement. Simply lifting a weight that is too heavy for you to control and swinging it on every rep, week after week, well, you'll probably hurt yourself.

Donvio
10-24-10, 9:39 pm
Like Porterhouse said controlled cheating is a good tactic. A barbell row is a power exercise in my opinion. In your last reps you wont be able to control form like a cable row so go ahead and do a controlled cheat rep or two. 3 or more and the set is bullshit.

never_2_big
10-24-10, 11:11 pm
This DVD shows Mark Dugdale being trained by Dorian... Dugdale get an ass kicking when he finds out how to do the bent row PROPERLY. No momentum, no rocking... Just smooth controlled form. That being said, if youre looking to shift more weight by all means cheat on your last couple of reps, but in my opinion when you're biceps, glutes and hams start to take over its time to end the set...

Mauricio
10-24-10, 11:14 pm
controlled cheat reps is a good thing for back, your forearms will give in before your back reaches muscular failure, just be completely sure not to arch your back or tense your traps too much.

pushin weight
10-25-10, 9:23 am
Remember that the main focus of this move should be to hold the contraction at the top of the rep. Thats what engages the middle back.In my opinion if your moving heavy weight without being able to effectively hold the contraction then your not doing it right.If you have to cheat to get the weight up just make sure you still try to hold it at the top.

Razor
10-25-10, 9:26 am
You're always going to have a little swing in something when going heavy. This applies to most routines. Barbell bicep curls for example. You're always going to notice a little bit of something. The trick is to really focus on that particular muscle and minimize the movement of the swing. I go heavy as i can with rows but when i feel i might swing it too much or my form suffers, i'll drop a 10 or a 5 from the bar and focus more on the muscle than just getting it up.

Beach91
10-25-10, 9:54 am
You're always going to have a little swing in something when going heavy. This applies to most routines. Barbell bicep curls for example. You're always going to notice a little bit of something. The trick is to really focus on that particular muscle and minimize the movement of the swing. I go heavy as i can with rows but when i feel i might swing it too much or my form suffers, i'll drop a 10 or a 5 from the bar and focus more on the muscle than just getting it up.

Exactly, form is always the key, even when going for a personal best, if you are sacrificing form too much, an injury can happen and then you can't do the exercise at all. Make sure that when you do the exercise, the muscle you are targeting is the one getting worked, while a little swing on the row may be ok, it would be best if all of your sets were done under strict control, with possibly your last set having a little swing to it to get the weight up, but always make sure your targeted muscle is being worked

Aggression
10-25-10, 9:58 am
Is it better to use perfect form with lighter weight or a bit of a swing with a heavier weight? I know form is crucial, but is a bit of swing fine, since you are lifting heavier?

Both. When I do rows, every set starts off with strict, perfect form. I'll bang out ~6-8 reps this way and then force out another 2-4 with a little momentum.

msktyshha
10-25-10, 12:41 pm
So, use good form one week and then the next start to cheat? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Shouldn't proper form be used all the time as weight is increased?

If I misread or misinterpruted what you wrote I do apologize.

if someone is starting off with barbell rows they must pick a weight they can do with strict form and then next week just add 5-10lbs and bang out the first few reps with perfect form but if you fall short of your prescribed reps in perfect form than bang out the remaining reps even if you have to cheat. take me for an example I do 5x5 on barbell rows when I get to my 5th set my form starts to get ugly cause the weight feels heavier... now I won't just drop the weight and go home because I couldn't keep my form perfect...No I'll complete my set even if I have to sacrifice my form in the last remaining reps, this way I can progress better, and next week I'll be able to complete all 5 sets with perfect form. This has happened to me many times when my form started to get sloppy I would just drop the weight and end the set, but this way I wasn't progressing in weight or reps

ironshaolin
10-25-10, 8:15 pm
There's a huge difference between a little body english and blatant bad form. On a bent over row, I see being bent 45 degrees, with a little swaying in there to be helpful, so long as you can actually feel your back working on it. Don't overdo it, I've seen guys at the gym doing something where they go from arched back, to totally rounded back with this chicken head motion as they pull the bar and stop 3 inches before touching their gut. It's ok to use a little momentum, but don't be an @$$ hole.

bigchuck000
10-25-10, 10:31 pm
in my opinion for any exercise you should do a weight you can adequately control for as many reps as you can do. That being said.. every guy who has ever been in a gym has loaded a bar up with too much weight at least once and cheated it up. But I noticed that when I reduced the weights a little and did a lot of good reps I grew like crazy

JasonG
10-26-10, 3:29 am
I think the most important thing to remember is a quote by Jay Cutler, "Work the muscle not the weight." That being said I do 4 -5 sets on bent over rows. I work up in weight to the point where my second to last set is really heavy and I'm not performing the last few reps ultra strict but then I sometimes do a drop set immediately after and back to controlled and squeezing hard during the contraction. Other times if I feel I went a little too heavy for my rep range I'll drop the next set down a bit to stay in my rep range.

BarbellManiac
10-26-10, 5:07 am
Ended up using perfect form on the first 8 reps, and then a little swing for 2 more for 4 sets. Worked out pretty good. Thanks Animals!

pushin weight
10-26-10, 9:40 am
I think the most important thing to remember is a quote by Jay Cutler, "Work the muscle not the weight." That being said I do 4 -5 sets on bent over rows. I work up in weight to the point where my second to last set is really heavy and I'm not performing the last few reps ultra strict but then I sometimes do a drop set immediately after and back to controlled and squeezing hard during the contraction. Other times if I feel I went a little too heavy for my rep range I'll drop the next set down a bit to stay in my rep range.

This is a perfect example of why drop sets should play a role in everyones routine,nice post.

SpankyC
10-26-10, 4:13 pm
I don't like stressing my middle back too much, so I stick to what I can handle with good form.

why not?

SpankyC
10-26-10, 4:14 pm
With movements like bent rows, bench presses, deads, squats, dips, chins....any kind of power movement, your gonna want to go heavy and intense so a little bit of swinging is ok, i mean i dont know anyone who built a physque using strict form, everyone that is a beast trains like a beast! So a little momentum here and there but be Cautios of course, always be careful, know what you are doing.

jeff00z28
10-27-10, 1:02 am
i dont cheat on em. i rly dont care that much about how much i can row personally. most of the people that do a lot look like theyre having sex

scals
10-27-10, 10:05 pm
Both. When I do rows, every set starts off with strict, perfect form. I'll bang out ~6-8 reps this way and then force out another 2-4 with a little momentum.

x2. I wouldn't start the set by swining, but by the end if you wanna go beyond failure and little swing is not a terrible thing.

Fearless Rabbit
10-28-10, 8:37 am
I do them on a smith, helps me control the movement better. Definitely, my favorite back exercise.

charlievanriper
10-28-10, 10:29 am
With movements like bent rows, bench presses, deads, squats, dips, chins....any kind of power movement, your gonna want to go heavy and intense so a little bit of swinging is ok, i mean i dont know anyone who built a physque using strict form, everyone that is a beast trains like a beast! So a little momentum here and there but be Cautios of course, always be careful, know what you are doing.

x2 Totally Agree, strict for the core of the set but finish heavy w/ some cheat and you'll stim that muscle growth.