Training Styles

[Fricano]

What are the names of various schools of thought on training? What do you think is the best for bodybuilding and why?

[BryanSmash!]

What are the names of various schools of thought on training? What do you think is the best for bodybuilding and why?

There is no one best training style. Use one at a time until it stops working then move on to the next phase.

[Fricano]

What do people think about DC training?

[Necromatrix]

Personally, I loved it. The concept of "beat the log book" makes every session a bit more competitive,(which I like). It is more of a strength routine than mass building. Granted, mass will come, but more slowly than some other routines. Keep in mind, it is also a routine that suggests the user has at least 2 years of lifting under thier belt. You have to know your body, your limits and the lifts you are performing... Otherwise you head for easy injury.

[Fricano]

I've been questioning my training style lately and I've been wondering if I should train a different way. Right now I'm doing a variations on Shak's training protocol from the articles on animal pak. What I have been thinking about is what is the right amount of volume, how many worksets and many other things.

[Necromatrix]

BryanSmash is spot on, there is no one best routine, (otherwise there would only be one routine). I like to mix things up. I ran DC for the prescribed 3 months, now I am hitting HRT. Next may be 5/3/1, 5 X 5 or Blood and Guts. If/ when you do find your "perfect" routine, you still have to change up from time to time. Nothing will work forever. But it is also good to add your own flavor to a routine, make it work for you.

[Mauricio]

you still have to change up from time to time. Nothing will work forever.
i disagree with this more than i care to admit. your body only signals your muscles to get bigger when there's a necessity to adapt to higher stress levels. you lift heavy, you get big; you lift heavier weights and you get bigger muscles.you can change your whole routine every month but if you're not lifting heavier weights you won't see any results and will just burn through your precious calories while trying to learn a new routine. if your routine stopped working for some reason then maybe you have to rethink the way you look at bodybuilding, from just being a constant empyrical self-analysis of what's working for you to a somehow logical scientific approach to how your body responds to strength training. the books are out there, all you gotta do is read up.

[ironshaolin]

The best routine is the one you enjoy doing, and you can discipline yourself to stick to long enough to see results. Basically, I feel any routine can work, as long as it is set up in line with what your goals are, and provides a certain degree of recovery. For example, if you see routines that have chest, shoulders, and triceps all lined up 3 days back to back, with benching, overhead pressing, then close benching or dips in it, that would be an example of a dumb routine, as all 3 days you're basically hitting the same muscles, hence, no recovery. As long as your program allows proper recovery, it will work.
The biggest mistake I think people make is with, "training routine ADD". People work a certain routine for like 4 weeks, then switch to something totally different to "shock the muscles", realize they don't like that routine so change it after 2 weeks, go to a strength routine for 3, back to hypertrophy for 1, so on and so forth. Then after 1 year, they realize they've added 10 lbs on to their major lifts, and maybe 2 extra reps, and wonder why they haven't progressed. Pick a style, plan your rest, and stick to it until you SEE RESULTS, then and only then can you change.

[Necromatrix]

i disagree with this more than i care to admit. your body only signals your muscles to get bigger when there's a necessity to adapt to higher stress levels. you lift heavy, you get big; you lift heavier weights and you get bigger muscles.you can change your whole routine every month but if you're not lifting heavier weights you won't see any results and will just burn through your precious calories while trying to learn a new routine. if your routine stopped working for some reason then maybe you have to rethink the way you look at bodybuilding, from just being a constant empyrical self-analysis of what's working for you to a somehow logical scientific approach to how your body responds to strength training. the books are out there, all you gotta do is read up.

I said "from time to time", not every month. I also pointed out that I ran each routine for its suggested time frame. Suggestions that are in place for a reason. The concept of "lift heavy weights, get big muscles" only goes so far. Such a simplistic view of bodybuilding can lead to a lot of injuries.

[ironshaolin]

I said "from time to time", not every month. I also pointed out that I ran each routine for its suggested time frame. Suggestions that are in place for a reason. The concept of "lift heavy weights, get big muscles" only goes so far. Such a simplistic view of bodybuilding can lead to a lot of injuries.

As far as bodybuilding purposes go, you are correct in saying lift heavy, get big. However, heavy is a relative term, and I feel its view is misconstrued by ALOT of beginners. Now, lets look at it this way. Just because you have been lifting for 15 years does NOT make you ADVANCED. In fact, I see many, many trainees who follow intermediate routines but are still beginner, and advanced routines followed by intermediates. I see people say stuff like, "you don't need to lift heavy, you just need to feel the muscle working to grow", followed by doing reps of 135-185lbs. NOBODY got a big chest benching 135. Name one person who has a respectable chest who only benches 135. In my view, not working with heavy weights, means not working with NEAR MAXIMUM weights, I.E. something thats anywhere from 60-85% of your 1 rep max. If your 1 rep max on the bench press is only 170lbs, how much will that do for someone?
Basically, I see a beginner as being anyone who benches less than 185, squats less than 250 and deadlifts less than 315. An intermediate is anyone benching between 225 and 300, squatting between 275 and 350, and pulling around 315-405. If you can't hit the standard 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 dead, you should NEVER be following an ADVANCED ROUTINE.
Look, many, many pro bodybuilders are perfect examples of not lifting heavy, as they often stay above 8 reps in their workouts. But doing incline presses with 315 for 15 reps and calling it a "light set for a pump" is way different than doing the same with 155 and saying that you're going to be big because jay cutler does it.
Most beginners to intermediates, I feel would grow much more on a strength oriented program, and get themselves to a respectable level of strength before embarking on more hypertrophy/bodybuilder routines.

[Mauricio]

The concept of "lift heavy weights, get big muscles" only goes so far. Such a simplistic view of bodybuilding can lead to a lot of injuries.
you sound like one of those guys who look down on someone bench pressing 400lb for reps saying how dangerous it looks and keeps telling himself he can get a striated, well developed chest with just doing 40lb flyes and "switching it up" every now and then. ironshaolin has many valid points, strength is the easiest measurement of experience and level of intensity on your workouts. there's no clearer sign of muscles getting bigger than lifting stronger weights consistently.

[Necromatrix]

I do not look down on anyone for lifting any amount of weight. Nor do I need to label a person based on what they can or cannot lift. Furthermore, what does experience have to do with whether one is getting big or not? If a person can only bench 170lbs and they work with that, (or some percentage of that based on whatever routine they follow), they will get bigger. As long as a person is busting thier ass in the gym and at the table, they can make progress.

This makes two of my posts where you have picked one line and taken it out of context. If that is the basis for your arguments then I will leave you to it. I have better things to do than play keyboard warrior.

I will leave with this one point: There are many schools of thought, many of which have lead it's followers to success. No one routine/ regiment/ mentality is the "right one". That includes the simplistic "lift big, get big".

[MrMonday]

As far as bodybuilding purposes go, you are correct in saying lift heavy, get big. However, heavy is a relative term, and I feel its view is misconstrued by ALOT of beginners. Now, lets look at it this way. Just because you have been lifting for 15 years does NOT make you ADVANCED. In fact, I see many, many trainees who follow intermediate routines but are still beginner, and advanced routines followed by intermediates. I see people say stuff like, "you don't need to lift heavy, you just need to feel the muscle working to grow", followed by doing reps of 135-185lbs. NOBODY got a big chest benching 135. Name one person who has a respectable chest who only benches 135. In my view, not working with heavy weights, means not working with NEAR MAXIMUM weights, I.E. something thats anywhere from 60-85% of your 1 rep max. If your 1 rep max on the bench press is only 170lbs, how much will that do for someone?
Basically, I see a beginner as being anyone who benches less than 185, squats less than 250 and deadlifts less than 315. An intermediate is anyone benching between 225 and 300, squatting between 275 and 350, and pulling around 315-405. If you can't hit the standard 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 dead, you should NEVER be following an ADVANCED ROUTINE.
Look, many, many pro bodybuilders are perfect examples of not lifting heavy, as they often stay above 8 reps in their workouts. But doing incline presses with 315 for 15 reps and calling it a "light set for a pump" is way different than doing the same with 155 and saying that you're going to be big because jay cutler does it.
Most beginners to intermediates, I feel would grow much more on a strength oriented program, and get themselves to a respectable level of strength before embarking on more hypertrophy/bodybuilder routines.

I would echo everything you are saying here, except for the last sentence.

A (decent) bodybuilding routine is a strength building routine. That does NOT mean, however, that it should be a powerlifting routine, and normally when people on forums differentiate between "strength" and "hypertrophy" routines, things start heading in the wrong direction.

The following is not entirely directed at you:
There is a big misconception floating around these days that for some totally unknown reason, doing 3-4 exercises per muscle for 6-12 reps is going to somehow hamper your ability to get stronger. I have noticed this kind of attitude on the forvm a lot lately, and I think it needs to be made clear: Powerlifting is NOT the "daddy" of bodybuilding. Although a stronger muscle does mean a bigger muscle, that does not mean that a bigger bench press necessarily means a bigger chest. You do not need to be a decent powerlifter in order to be a decent bodybuilder. These are two entirely different sports.

This current attitude being spread of needing to hit an arbitrary level of performance by powerlifting standards in order to "do a hypertrophy routine" (which doesn't even make sense on it's own), is like a bunch of guys coming onto a baseball forum and telling newbs that they need to get good at football before they try to waste their time throwing curve balls and working on their swing. Yes both sports throw a ball... yes they both use similar training methods... but they are still two different sports, and you do not need to learn how to throw a football 100 yards before you start learning baseball... nor do you need to become extremely proficient at bench/dead/squat in order to be a successful bodybuilding.

Just trying to get people to think a little more critically.

[greatkeen]

I would echo everything you are saying here, except for the last sentence.

A (decent) bodybuilding routine is a strength building routine. That does NOT mean, however, that it should be a powerlifting routine, and normally when people on forums differentiate between "strength" and "hypertrophy" routines, things start heading in the wrong direction.

The following is not entirely directed at you:
There is a big misconception floating around these days that for some totally unknown reason, doing 3-4 exercises per muscle for 6-12 reps is going to somehow hamper your ability to get stronger. I have noticed this kind of attitude on the forvm a lot lately, and I think it needs to be made clear: Powerlifting is NOT the "daddy" of bodybuilding. Although a stronger muscle does mean a bigger muscle, that does not mean that a bigger bench press necessarily means a bigger chest. You do not need to be a decent powerlifter in order to be a decent bodybuilder. These are two entirely different sports.

This current attitude being spread of needing to hit an arbitrary level of performance by powerlifting standards in order to "do a hypertrophy routine" (which doesn't even make sense on it's own), is like a bunch of guys coming onto a baseball forum and telling newbs that they need to get good at football before they try to waste their time throwing curve balls and working on their swing. Yes both sports throw a ball... yes they both use similar training methods... but they are still two different sports, and you do not need to learn how to throw a football 100 yards before you start learning baseball... nor do you need to become extremely proficient at bench/dead/squat in order to be a successful bodybuilding.

Just trying to get people to think a little more critically.

Great post Mr.Monday! reading it i just couldnt resist but write a note in support of it. i totally agree with your point and more that this trend is not just on this forum but all over the net mostly! its kinda latest trend that you gota lift considerably big number before considering yourself a bodybuilder. stranger it may sound...all wanna be bodybuilder & likes judge each other by the amount one benches / squat / deadlift.... whatever happened to shoulder hip/waist ratio? & other visual appeals a bodybuilder strives for?

i have seen tons of guys with huge chest big biceps & massive shoulders yet the weights they lift is nothing that would match todays 'bodybuilding standards'.

Conclusion is Bodybuilding is more then just lifting big weights & its defenatly different then power lifting.

[prowrestler]

there is no reason to over complicate training. its really simple shit and boils down to 2 things no matter what

1- progression
2- consistency


find the best exercises for your body through trial and error, once you find them, stick with them and progress on them. you will be huge eventually IF you can eat enough. pack the protien in. 2 grams per lb of bodyweight and enough calories to promote weight gain. younger guys need more then older guys.

[SOLDIER X]

As long as your training hard and heavy, I'm for it.

[never_2_big]

there is no reason to over complicate training. its really simple shit and boils down to 2 things no matter what

1- progression
2- consistency


find the best exercises for your body through trial and error, once you find them, stick with them and progress on them. you will be huge eventually IF you can eat enough. pack the protien in. 2 grams per lb of bodyweight and enough calories to promote weight gain. younger guys need more then older guys.

Finally someone said... This shit isnt rocket science. Prowrestler got it spot on, the 2 things he mentioned are comorbid attributes of a bodybuilder. They want to progress and to do this they need to be consistent. But most importantly I think its about being a better you. Walking out of the gym knowing that todays chest session was better than last week's. It doesnt matter how you do it, its just doing it, and doing it over a long period of time!

[Aggression]

Every training style is effective, in my mind. I've done it all, including

- HIT (ala Dorian Yates)
- DC
- 531
- FST-7
- HRT
- and all the regular 'splits'

I've had good results with every single one of them. But you have to find what works for YOU. Personally, I like to run the 5/3/1 for a few cycles and then switch to HIT. It works for .... ME. Trial and error baby.

[Deathride]

The key is your goal. I, as a powerlifter, do not care if I have round developed pecs etc. So I do not do a regime that uses 18 different incline flies, pullovers, pushes, pressups and the like. I bench heavy using the 5/3/1, then do assistance work. And I've been on 5/3/1 for 9 months, and am still progressing and getting bigger, and don't feel the need to change. The only reason I'd change is cos I'd get bored and want a break!

If your goal is to be a bodybuilder, you clearly need to have a gradual increase in weight to progress. However, your movements are going to be more geared to working all aspects of the muscle...rather than the actual weight you are moving. So you will split the body into body parts rather than movements and train that way.

The actual way you perform your bodypart exercises doesn't matter, so long as you perform them well, with enough weight for enough reps and break down enough muscle for growth.