View Full Version : Barbell Bentover rows
I see this exercise done so many different ways. Older variations had you bend over at a 90 degree angle but i have noticed that most people only bend over at a 45 degree angle. Also, do you pull the weight to your belly button or should it be pulled to your upper abs? Does grip width matter? How do most people do them to properly work the width of the back?
I meant to work the thickness of the back.
Carrnage
12-11-10, 1:39 am
45 degree angle is the money!! Oh and find the grip width that you feel you are comfy with, typically a shoulder width grip is best, T-Bar Rows (in the corner like Ronnie Coleman) is also an epic exercise.
shizz702
12-11-10, 5:29 am
Technically the correct form is done torso parallel to the floor, with each rep starting and stopping from the floor.
Done upright turns it into a Yate's row.
Both ways have their uses, experiment with them and find what works for you.
Back To Basics
12-11-10, 6:42 am
If I go 90 degrees I feel it more in my traps than in my lats, at 75 degrees (dorian yates style) It puts your lats in a stronger position. Just try out with your own grips and angles and see what feels the best.
prowrestler
12-11-10, 1:49 pm
wider grip, elbows flared, to the chest, thats how you will hit the back thickness muscles.
for lats, closer hands, row to the waist
I see this exercise done so many different ways. Older variations had you bend over at a 90 degree angle but i have noticed that most people only bend over at a 45 degree angle. Also, do you pull the weight to your belly button or should it be pulled to your upper abs? Does grip width matter? How do most people do them to properly work the width of the back?
I will tell you how most people do them...way heavier than they should! I can remeber guys with freaky back development who were dead set against rowing with anything over 185 pounds...guys like Flex Wheeler, Sammir Banout, Frank Zane...and many, many more never felt the need to load up 315 and jump aropund like some kind of derranged zoo animal. Back training should be perfromed with great intensity but also with the understanding that it is a nuance body part...which means if you havent taken the time to fix the neuromuscular pathway and proper exercise posture...the muscularity of your back will be lacking.
MACHINE
Carrnage
12-12-10, 2:40 am
I will tell you how most people do them...way heavier than they should! I can remeber guys with freaky back development who were dead set against rowing with anything over 185 pounds...guys like Flex Wheeler, Sammir Banout, Frank Zane...and many, many more never felt the need to load up 315 and jump aropund like some kind of derranged zoo animal. Back training should be perfromed with great intensity but also with the understanding that it is a nuance body part...which means if you havent taken the time to fix the neuromuscular pathway and proper exercise posture...the muscularity of your back will be lacking.
MACHINE
Thats so fucking true!!!
MrMonday
12-12-10, 5:39 pm
wider grip, elbows flared, to the chest, thats how you will hit the back thickness muscles.
for lats, closer hands, row to the waist
I would echo what prowrestler is saying here. Two different styles for two different purposes.
I personally do barbell rows while standing on a box, torso parallel to the floor, letting the bar stretch all the way down over my toes before rowing up into the upper abs (very old-school movement that you rarely see anymore, but I love it). This works my entire upper back.
Later in the workout, I will do T-bar rows (pulling my hands into the hip area) for my lower lats.
Cellardweller
12-13-10, 5:32 pm
This is a great thread. I'm going to have to drop the weight and reevaluate my rows. My lats are stubborn. Or maybe I am and that's why they're not going like the rest of me.
This is a great thread. I'm going to have to drop the weight and reevaluate my rows. My lats are stubborn. Or maybe I am and that's why they're not going like the rest of me.
I agree totally...that is why we must constantly challenge assumption...most importantly our own.
Good thread.
MACHINE
I almost always agree 100% with MACHINE ,And I do see a need for good form. But once you understand the movement a good nasty heavy Dorian row can add some thickness. I myself has witnessed the MACHINE doing some heavy row in the past. You know you got that think ass back from bangin the heavy weights big boy!!!
My lower back tends to like dorians 75* style.
i like this thread, there are many varations of a row, all work something a little differnt than the other, so for extra discussion, what is everyones thoughts about underhand grip vs regular
Both grips have a purpose but I like underhand for the heavy weight.
I almost always agree 100% with MACHINE ,And I do see a need for good form. But once you understand the movement a good nasty heavy Dorian row can add some thickness. I myself has witnessed the MACHINE doing some heavy row in the past. You know you got that think ass back from bangin the heavy weights big boy!!!
I know...I know...I just like to gettem when they're still young and can be coached and havent torn their fuckin tendons off the bone like you and I have...
You are correct though...once a person has learned and mastered the nuance of the barbell row...then add some weight and get it done...but dont pull the trigger until you understand the movement
I miss you Big Al
MACHINE
Didn't Dorian pull his bicep muscle by using too much weight doing the Yates row? Thus, is underhand grip more dangerous than overhand grip?
Maccabee
12-15-10, 1:13 am
Didn't Dorian pull his bicep muscle by using too much weight doing the Yates row? Thus, is underhand grip more dangerous than overhand grip?
I think Dorian Yates tore his bicep because he trains his ass off! He puts everything on the line for every set that he did...one all out set with absolutely no mercy on the muscle.
Also, most of his injuries occured close to competition when he had low bf% I THINK. When your close to a show some say to take it a little easy because you are more prone to injuries. However, Dorian's training style was to always go all out with perfect form.
If I am wrong...hope others correct me.
My lower back tends to like dorians 75* style.
Damn I meant 45*. Long day.
Great Post, I have went back to "the drawing board" so to speak after recovering from a car accident and form for me has become really important on my way "Back"; so this thread was like right on time. Thanks brothers for so much info.
Aggression
12-15-10, 9:44 am
I've done BB Rows many different ways, all of which were mentioned here. I find it works best for me to do 'em at the angle that Dorian Yates does it. I pull to the belly button. I utilize both overhand and underhand, mostly leaning towards underhand. I usually do 4 hard sets, 3 of them being of lighter weight, strict form, with a slight pause. The last set is when I turn it up a notch and bang out 6-8 heavy ass reps.
I think Dorian Yates tore his bicep because he trains his ass off! He puts everything on the line for every set that he did...one all out set with absolutely no mercy on the muscle.
Also, most of his injuries occured close to competition when he had low bf% I THINK. When your close to a show some say to take it a little easy because you are more prone to injuries. However, Dorian's training style was to always go all out with perfect form.
If I am wrong...hope others correct me.
I can't vouch for most of his injuries happening at low bodyfat...and I also put everything on the line every set...I think a lot of guys do. I will say thst clinically one can be just as easily injured precontest as offseason...while I will say thst there are physiological factors which make injury more of a concern precontest...but I completely ruptured my left bicep at 335 pounds and re-injured it years later at 285 while flipping a tire...
Shit just happens, the only thing one can do is put ones self in an optimal physiological, physical, and mental state at any training stage.
MACHINE
Back To Basics
12-15-10, 7:04 pm
I can't vouch for most of his injuries happening at low bodyfat...and I also put everything on the line every set...I think a lot of guys do. I will say thst clinically one can be just as easily injured precontest as offseason...while I will say thst there are physiological factors which make injury more of a concern precontest...but I completely ruptured my left bicep at 335 pounds and re-injured it years later at 285 while flipping a tire...
Shit just happens, the only thing one can do is put ones self in an optimal physiological, physical, and mental state at any training stage.
MACHINE
That kind of stuff can get real depressing, you tore your whole quad off too yeah? What's great is that Dorian tore his bicep than kept going and won the Olympia. I also put everything I have into reps, it really gets to me if I finish a set and I haven't poured everything I have into it.
That kind of stuff can get real depressing, you tore your whole quad off too yeah? What's great is that Dorian tore his bicep than kept going and won the Olympia. I also put everything I have into reps, it really gets to me if I finish a set and I haven't poured everything I have into it.
Dorian is a super athlete and a proper champion...I am glad the sport had a Dorian Yates...he is irreplacable to me.
MACHIE
Back To Basics
12-15-10, 9:53 pm
Dorian is a super athlete and a proper champion...I am glad the sport had a Dorian Yates...he is irreplacable to me.
MACHIE
You can say that again, just a no bullshit guy with a bad ass blue collar work ethic.
Maccabee
12-15-10, 10:13 pm
That is true. I have seen people get injured offseason and precontest.
Here is what Dorian Yates had to say about injuries...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMhQrpkdpNo
Carrnage
12-16-10, 7:48 pm
I think Dorian Yates tore his bicep because he trains his ass off! He puts everything on the line for every set that he did...one all out set with absolutely no mercy on the muscle.
Also, most of his injuries occured close to competition when he had low bf% I THINK. When your close to a show some say to take it a little easy because you are more prone to injuries. However, Dorian's training style was to always go all out with perfect form.
If I am wrong...hope others correct me.
Dorian trained his back very controlled aswell, he didnt go to extreme failure with partials or anything with his back, thats prolly why his back was so symmetrical.
Also, is it better to use a thumbless grip like with wide grip pullups or use a regular grip?
MRmichael.hooker
12-17-10, 8:58 am
I read in a mag how some guy does them with a very wide grip, to hit the back hard along the spine. You cant stretch out the lats as well as with a traditional row, but you keep constant tension on the muscle. I've been trying it out for 3 weeks now and its fucking insane. I've always liked the Dorian style (45-70 degree angle & rev grip) but now i've found a nice alternative for me.