View Full Version : Strength versus size
This has been a major dilema with me for several years. I want to get bigger but also gain strength...more size overall over strength. Everybody says something different. To get big you have to get stronger....meaning low reps and eat big. Others say that size and strength are not related....meaning that if you follow low rep schemes, you will build mostly strength but wont gain size. I dont have the genetics to get really big but at one point in time i was pretty big for a small dude.
I am so lost. I have been training for literally 10 years and dont have much to show for it. The highest i got to was 170lbs. at 5'10". I have tried low reps, heavy weight...high reps, medium weight...switching things up often. I dont seem to grow on anything.
Back to my original post. I followed this guy Anthony Ellis program...not sure if anybody has heard of him but he was a contestant on "Body for Life" contest for a supplement company. He says it is designed for skinny guys to gain mass. I followed it and that is how i got my biggest but he says to do very low reps for compound exercises following a 8,6,4,2 or a 7,5,3,1 and then doing burnout sets and supersets with a higher rep range of 6-12 reps. Is it really safe to go down to 1-2 reps every week on bench press, squats, shoulder presses, Romanian deadlifts, bentover rows? Like i said i was getting really strong but gained some good size off of this even though the reps were low. I just dont think you should go down to 1 rep on your last set for shoulder presses, romanian deadlifts, bentover rows. I was more or less heaving the weight and got injured alot.
Why did i gain decent size with this program then? I love to train heavy but am now thinking of doing maybe 4-8 reps for compounds for 3 weeks and then switching to a 6-12 rep scheme for a week and then switching exercises and doing the same cycle. Sound good or not?
dannynb
01-07-11, 11:00 pm
You want to grow, you have to eat. I'm willing to bet my house you're just not getting enough calories in. As for a routine, switch it up. Go low rep scheme and do high volume work..just keep banging away. Again post up your diet and let's see what we can help with.
strength is based on how many receptors are activated in the muscle when you do the lift.. the more you practice a specific exercise with a certain difficulty, your body will activate more receptors....the bigger you are the more receptors can be activated.. but its not a 2-3 week thing... you have millions of receptors and your body only activates a couple more at a time... that's how size and strength are related.. even though someone with a lot less mass can out-lift someone bigger, its only because more receptors are activated in his body
I can only workout 3 times a week..usually monday, wednesday, friday because i work 2 jobs....so i do monday...chest, shoulders, triceps, abs
wednesday...legs, hamstrings, calves
friday...back, biceps, forearms, abs
Sample diet is:
(7:00am) Breakfast: 4 eggs (2 yolks, 2 just eggwhites, yolks thrown out), 1 bowl of oatmeal, glass of milk, glass of OJ.
(10:30) Snack: Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 banana
(12:00pm) Lunch: chicken or steak or fish, brown rice or vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(3:00pm) Snack: peanut butter & jelly sandwhich on whole wheat bread, 1 glass of milk
(6:00pm) Dinner: chicken, steak, fish, or pasta, vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(8:30pm) Snack: (Pre workout) Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 granola bar or yougurt
WORKOUT: (10pm -11pm)
Post workout: 35 grams of whey protein
70 grams of maltodextrin
5 grams of creatine (all mixed together in 12 ounces of water)
(12:00am): Casein shake in milk with 2 tablespoons of olive oil
Go to bed at 12:00am - 1:00am (6-7 hours sleep) Also 8-10 glasses of water between every meal.
Depending on off days i eat 7-8 times a day.
dannynb
01-08-11, 12:28 am
I can only workout 3 times a week..usually monday, wednesday, friday because i work 2 jobs....so i do monday...chest, shoulders, triceps, abs
wednesday...legs, hamstrings, calves
friday...back, biceps, forearms, abs
Sample diet is:
(7:00am) Breakfast: 4 eggs (2 yolks, 2 just eggwhites, yolks thrown out), 1 bowl of oatmeal, glass of milk, glass of OJ.
(10:30) Snack: Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 banana
(12:00pm) Lunch: chicken or steak or fish, brown rice or vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(3:00pm) Snack: peanut butter & jelly sandwhich on whole wheat bread, 1 glass of milk
(6:00pm) Dinner: chicken, steak, fish, or pasta, vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(8:30pm) Snack: (Pre workout) Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 granola bar or yougurt
WORKOUT: (10pm -11pm)
Post workout: 35 grams of whey protein
70 grams of maltodextrin
5 grams of creatine (all mixed together in 12 ounces of water)
(12:00am): Casein shake in milk with 2 tablespoons of olive oil
Go to bed at 12:00am - 1:00am (6-7 hours sleep) Also 8-10 glasses of water between every meal.
Depending on off days i eat 7-8 times a day.
I'm going to bed but ill write up my thoughts on hour diet tomorrow....needs some revamping but nothing that can't be fixed. What are your stats? Age, height, weight.....
I'm going to bed but ill write up my thoughts on hour diet tomorrow....needs some revamping but nothing that can't be fixed. What are your stats? Age, height, weight.....
I have been stressed and depressed...i lost all my gains. I was 170 lbs. at my biggest like i said. I am now 150 lbs. 5'10", 38 years old.....been lifting on and off for about 10 years.
Sinister_TES
01-08-11, 2:25 am
The way you gain size is through progressive overload in a hypertropy rep range and eating ALOT. How much bigger would you be if you went from squating 225 for 20, to 405 for 20.
This routine is from another site:
Hardgainer Style Training:
There are many people on these boards that have absolutely ZERO knowledge about this style of routine. And unfortunately they are most often the ones that spout off about how it could never work. One of the objections often quoted is “there is no way you could build a competitive physique with a routine like that”. To that I will say “no fucking duh”. No you are right you can’t build a competitive physique on a routine like this. But “duh Einstein” the VAST majority of the trainees out there will never build a competitive physique no matter what they do. That takes great genetics and unfortunately most people just have it. But with proper training most guys can get damn big and strong. Big enough to turn heads wherever they go. For MANY people out there Hardgainer style training is the one and only thing that will get them there. I can’t even count the number of trainees I have seen add 20-40 lbs in a few months after YEARS of making little or no gains. I know, I was one of them! I will make this category really simple on everyone. Do this:
Split your routine up into 2 or 3 days and after warm-ups do:
Bench Press or Dips 2 x 8-12
Bent Row or Pull-up 2 x 8-12
Military or Dumbell Press 2 x 8-12
Squat 2 x 8-12
Stiff Legged Deadlift 2 x 8-12
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
DON’T worry about detail here. The idea is to actually get brutally strong on a core group of lifts instead. Here is something I posted awhile back:
For you people that are always concerned about balance and symmetry, yet don’t grow, yes, you guys.always doing 3-4 exercises per body-part to ensure “complete development” of all “aspects” of a muscle. What if all you did was:
Squats 400 x 20
Stiff-legged deadlifts 375 x 15
Bench Press 315 x 12
Pull-Up with 100 lbs extra weight x 12
Military Press Body-Weight x 10
Calf-Raise 700 x 15
Weighted Sit-Up 175 x 12
How much bigger would you be than you are now, and what muscle would be under developed?!?!?!?!?!?
What if that was ALL THE LIFTS YOU ACTUALLY DID ON A WEEK-TO-WEEK BASIS, BUT ACTUALLY DID THAT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT? AND SINCE THAT WAS ALL YOU DID YOU NEVER OVERTRAINED AND YOU WERE ALWAYS ABLE ADD A LITTLE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT TO THE BAR. HOW MUCH FUCKING BIGGER WOULD YOU BE THAN YOU ARE NOW???????
You also mentioned that you change things up often...don't do that, consistancey and sticking with it is key to gaining size and strength
Put basically the greater your muscle mass (CSA) the higher potential you have for strength gain.
A good way to think of it is you build the muscle using a hypertrophy routine and then 'convert' this muscle that you built to get stronger using a lower rep strength routine.
...
Sample diet is:
(7:00am) Breakfast: 4 eggs (2 yolks, 2 just eggwhites, yolks thrown out), 1 bowl of oatmeal, glass of milk, glass of OJ.
(10:30) Snack: Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 banana
(12:00pm) Lunch: chicken or steak or fish, brown rice or vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(3:00pm) Snack: peanut butter & jelly sandwhich on whole wheat bread, 1 glass of milk
(6:00pm) Dinner: chicken, steak, fish, or pasta, vegetable, 1 glass of iced tea
(8:30pm) Snack: (Pre workout) Protein shake consisting of whey/casein in milk, 1 granola bar or yougurt
WORKOUT: (10pm -11pm)
Post workout: 35 grams of whey protein
70 grams of maltodextrin
5 grams of creatine (all mixed together in 12 ounces of water)
(12:00am): Casein shake in milk with 2 tablespoons of olive oil
Go to bed at 12:00am - 1:00am (6-7 hours sleep) Also 8-10 glasses of water between every meal.
Depending on off days i eat 7-8 times a day.
First off, I'm not a pro and I don't have all the answers, but I've struggled with weight gain previously as well. I used to be confused by all the conflicting info about "gaining lean muscle and losing fat" and a bunch of other non-sense I was buying into. Over time, I managed to break away from my 185 lb, 200 lb, and 225 lb weight thresholds and the following helped me gain weight.
1.) Switch from protein shakes to gainer shakes (not sure if you implied this with your posts or not). The added calories made a big difference for me. Don't be afraid to toss in peanut butter or a scoop of ice cream to change up the taste from time to time.
2.) Double your egg intake in the mornings. If I remember right, 8 eggs is about 100 grams of protein. Work on progressing up to a full dozen eggs for breakfast. Try adding an additional egg every week or two (salsa is a big help here too).
3.) Replace any chicken or tuna with ground beef (and not ultra-lean beef, 80 is about as low as I'd go).
4.) Get more sleep. I discovered that I naturally (without an alarm) sleep very heavy (12 hours). If you can swing it, try lifting a day less in favor of eating more and sleeping more.
5.) Lift less. Try lifting a day or two less with more rest days and see how the weight increases.
All of the above are things that have helped me. Also, with the eating, I've found that if I end up getting hunger pains at all during the day, I screwed up somewhere. If I find myself inching toward the end of a plate and am having to force feed I'm doing something right.
Just my thoughts.
The way you gain size is through progressive overload in a hypertropy rep range and eating ALOT. How much bigger would you be if you went from squating 225 for 20, to 405 for 20.
This routine is from another site:
Hardgainer Style Training:
There are many people on these boards that have absolutely ZERO knowledge about this style of routine. And unfortunately they are most often the ones that spout off about how it could never work. One of the objections often quoted is “there is no way you could build a competitive physique with a routine like that”. To that I will say “no fucking duh”. No you are right you can’t build a competitive physique on a routine like this. But “duh Einstein” the VAST majority of the trainees out there will never build a competitive physique no matter what they do. That takes great genetics and unfortunately most people just have it. But with proper training most guys can get damn big and strong. Big enough to turn heads wherever they go. For MANY people out there Hardgainer style training is the one and only thing that will get them there. I can’t even count the number of trainees I have seen add 20-40 lbs in a few months after YEARS of making little or no gains. I know, I was one of them! I will make this category really simple on everyone. Do this:
Split your routine up into 2 or 3 days and after warm-ups do:
Bench Press or Dips 2 x 8-12
Bent Row or Pull-up 2 x 8-12
Military or Dumbell Press 2 x 8-12
Squat 2 x 8-12
Stiff Legged Deadlift 2 x 8-12
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
DON’T worry about detail here. The idea is to actually get brutally strong on a core group of lifts instead. Here is something I posted awhile back:
For you people that are always concerned about balance and symmetry, yet don’t grow, yes, you guys.always doing 3-4 exercises per body-part to ensure “complete development” of all “aspects” of a muscle. What if all you did was:
Squats 400 x 20
Stiff-legged deadlifts 375 x 15
Bench Press 315 x 12
Pull-Up with 100 lbs extra weight x 12
Military Press Body-Weight x 10
Calf-Raise 700 x 15
Weighted Sit-Up 175 x 12
How much bigger would you be than you are now, and what muscle would be under developed?!?!?!?!?!?
What if that was ALL THE LIFTS YOU ACTUALLY DID ON A WEEK-TO-WEEK BASIS, BUT ACTUALLY DID THAT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT? AND SINCE THAT WAS ALL YOU DID YOU NEVER OVERTRAINED AND YOU WERE ALWAYS ABLE ADD A LITTLE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT TO THE BAR. HOW MUCH FUCKING BIGGER WOULD YOU BE THAN YOU ARE NOW???????
You also mentioned that you change things up often...don't do that, consistancey and sticking with it is key to gaining size and strength
But isnt it easier to progress with a low rep scheme than it is with a higher rep scheme? I find it easier to up the weight or reps weekly by doing say 4-8 reps for most compound exercises. When i switch to an 8-12 rep scheme...it takes a long time to progress with extra weight or reps. And not to argue but i will never even come close to putting those numbers up you have there. The most i could bench in a workout was 235 and squat 325. It took me years to get there. So how can there be guys at my gym that are larger than me and for example one of them i see squatting 315 and struggling and doing half ass reps...yet his legs are huge?
conjugalburns
01-08-11, 11:35 am
But isnt it easier to progress with a low rep scheme than it is with a higher rep scheme? I find it easier to up the weight or reps weekly by doing say 4-8 reps for most compound exercises. When i switch to an 8-12 rep scheme...it takes a long time to progress with extra weight or reps. And not to argue but i will never even come close to putting those numbers up you have there. The most i could bench in a workout was 235 and squat 325. It took me years to get there. So how can there be guys at my gym that are larger than me and for example one of them i see squatting 315 and struggling and doing half ass reps...yet his legs are huge?
start with a weight let's say 235 on your bench and you can only get out 4 reps, on your next bench instead of upping the weight aim for let's say 6 reps and eventually up to 12. Once you hit a goal number of reps with said weight, up the weight and start the process all over again. There are others on here who know way more than I do, but if there is one thing I know you have to be patient with it. Just keep working hard, and you'll progress.
prowrestler
01-08-11, 1:29 pm
8 eggs IS NOT 100 grams protein. 8x7 = 56. at most.
prowrestler
01-08-11, 1:31 pm
if your not gaining, it means 1 of 2 things. maybe both
1, your not eating enough
2, your training sucks.
if the scale doesnt move and your training is in check, you are not eating enough no matter what your diet looks like.
what are your lifts? bench squat deadlift row curl close grip bench military press ect...
Introvert
01-08-11, 2:30 pm
I went through a 6 month period where I thought I was eating a ton and lifting well and I wasn't seeing any progression so I had to go back to the drawing board and this is what I came up with.
-with every meal add a pb&j or a mass gainer shake with it. don't worry about getting fat cause obviously thats not a problem for us.
-go back to the basic lifts...bench, squat, military, barbell rows, etc.... use machines sparingly.
-lots of rest
-i hit cardio twice a week just to keep my cardiorespiratory system up, but do as little as possible cause you need all the help you can get.
Aslo, you're breakfast should consist of a lot more protein and carbs to get your system out of the catabolic state from sleeping.
I've gained about 10 pounds since I started doing this not 2 months ago.
Good luck man!
-INTROVERT-
8 eggs IS NOT 100 grams protein. 8x7 = 56. at most.
My bad. Not sure why I labeled one egg at 12.6.
Sinister_TES
01-08-11, 2:59 pm
But isnt it easier to progress with a low rep scheme than it is with a higher rep scheme? I find it easier to up the weight or reps weekly by doing say 4-8 reps for most compound exercises. When i switch to an 8-12 rep scheme...it takes a long time to progress with extra weight or reps. And not to argue but i will never even come close to putting those numbers up you have there. The most i could bench in a workout was 235 and squat 325. It took me years to get there. So how can there be guys at my gym that are larger than me and for example one of them i see squatting 315 and struggling and doing half ass reps...yet his legs are huge?
That may just be you, Id say generally though people progress better in a higher rep range. Just think how long it takes to add weight to your one rep max of your squat, compared to people at 5 pounds, 3 times a week on the super squat program. But if you grow better in the 4-8 range then do your sets to eight reps. As for you not getting to those numbers thats jsut an example. If you take all you say 5 rep maxes and get to the point where you can do them for 10 then youll be bigger. Lastley to the guys that are bigger then you, maybe they are eating more then you, have better genetics then you, taking steroids. but dont be concerned with what they are doing, jsut what you are doing. People who are skinnier and trying to put on weight are only going to suffer if they do high volume and go for the pump, it will Just stick to very low volume, heavy weights, progress and eat, dont over think it.
Carrnage
01-08-11, 3:43 pm
This has been a major dilema with me for several years. I want to get bigger but also gain strength...more size overall over strength. Everybody says something different. To get big you have to get stronger....meaning low reps and eat big. Others say that size and strength are not related....meaning that if you follow low rep schemes, you will build mostly strength but wont gain size. I dont have the genetics to get really big but at one point in time i was pretty big for a small dude.
I am so lost. I have been training for literally 10 years and dont have much to show for it. The highest i got to was 170lbs. at 5'10". I have tried low reps, heavy weight...high reps, medium weight...switching things up often. I dont seem to grow on anything.
Back to my original post. I followed this guy Anthony Ellis program...not sure if anybody has heard of him but he was a contestant on "Body for Life" contest for a supplement company. He says it is designed for skinny guys to gain mass. I followed it and that is how i got my biggest but he says to do very low reps for compound exercises following a 8,6,4,2 or a 7,5,3,1 and then doing burnout sets and supersets with a higher rep range of 6-12 reps. Is it really safe to go down to 1-2 reps every week on bench press, squats, shoulder presses, Romanian deadlifts, bentover rows? Like i said i was getting really strong but gained some good size off of this even though the reps were low. I just dont think you should go down to 1 rep on your last set for shoulder presses, romanian deadlifts, bentover rows. I was more or less heaving the weight and got injured alot.
Why did i gain decent size with this program then? I love to train heavy but am now thinking of doing maybe 4-8 reps for compounds for 3 weeks and then switching to a 6-12 rep scheme for a week and then switching exercises and doing the same cycle. Sound good or not?
Wow man 10 years? I think you are overthinking things wayyy too much....I started out with a 225 bench for 5....275 deadlift for 3.....and now 5 years later im pressing over 400-500, deadlifting 600+, squatting 500+.......all that with smart nutrition and hardcore training...literally.....there is no "secret" program out there.....But HEY!!! GUESS WHAT!!!! When I made the most progress of my life, you know what I did? I said fuck everything and just focused on freeweight pressing movements, squats, legpresses, deads, rows, chins, dips.....and i didnt give a damn on how many reps i did (so many people overthink the rep range) FUCK IT! If you get 10 reps? Awesome! If you get 4reps will you gain size or strength? Maybe both? maybe none? who knows? It depends on how much intensity, blood and guts you put into your training.
Heres some comon brosciene (even though it may be scientifically true, i say bullshit)
low reps = strength
moderate-high reps = size
Bullshit! Do both! listnen to your body and train like a freak! Eat your bw of protein, 3x bw of carbs, bw of fats for nutrition!!! Fuck programs, fuck science, just go do it.
Oh and P.S even though its possible to make great progress training 5-7 times a week, DONt DO IT unless your eating,supplementation,sleep,stress,injuries are correct and enough! Train only 3-4 times a week, dont train over 2 days in a row!!! The human body gets overtrained very easily, people always say theres no overtraining, just under eating....thats bullshit, its because some people are fucking meatheads and think they are invincible and end up stagnating for years! Yes you can make progress training a million times a week, but you can accelerate your progress by resting more!
My point is, fuck programs, fuck overthinking, got a goal? Go for it! Make it happen! Fuck mindgames, mindgames are the devil, now go slay it, train with heavy freeweight movements 3-4 times a week, and control that shit, dont bang it off the floor with deads, or bounce the bar on your chest! If you want different techniques, try rest-pause, DC...those techniques will kick your ass, especially on leg movements!
Make it happen!
Now!
How can you progress in weight though if you are constantly changing what you do? I know some people recommend heavy weights 1-2 weeks, then medium weight 1-2 weeks, then light weight 1-2 weeks. By the time you got back to the heavy weights, to me you would be lifting less, since you have lifted a heavy bench press in 3-6 weeks. I train heavy for like 6 weeks with low reps but every 3 weeks i change the compound exercises done. I then might go to 1-2 weeks of lighter training.
Isn't that a better way to progress? because you are going heavy week after week with more chances to increase the weight and/or reps with the last workouts weights used versus changing up your rep range every week or 2.
Ok, not sure how much you weigh...I can give a better layout knowing that. Here's a basic outline of a diet and even workout you can do that as long as you eat, eat, eat, train right and rest, you will grow.
Meal 1:
8 egg whites, 2 yolks
1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 3:
8oz protein
1 sweet potato
1 cup veggies
Meal 4:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
PWO Shake:
20g protein
60g simple carbs
5g creatine
5g glutamine
Meal 5 (within) 20-30 minutes after pwo shake
8oz protein
1 1/2 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 6
8oz protein
1 cup veggies
Bedtime:
1 cup fat free cottage cheese
1/4-1/2 cup natural apple sauce
or
1-2 scoops casein with water
Mon- Push
Wed-Legs
Fri-Pull
Mon:
Flat Bench 4x8-12 reps
Incline Press 3x8-12
Incline Flyes 3x8-12
Side Delt Raises 3x8-12
Reverse Pec Deck 3x8-12
Upright Rows 3x8-12
Dips 3x8-12
Wed:
Squat 5x10-12 reps
Hack Squat 3x8-12
Leg Press 3x10-20
Leg Ext 3x10-15
Lying Leg Curls 4x10-12
Standing LEg Curls 3x10-12
Calves Seated 3x15
Standing 3x15
Fri:
Pull-Ups 3x Failure
Deads 4x8-12
Barbell Rows 3x8-12
Lat Pulls 3x8-12
Cable Rows 3x8-12
Preacher Curls 3x8-10
Abs
Crunches 3x25
Leg Raises 3x25
Weight, as heavy as you can go for those set of reps....if you fall below 8, to heavy if you do 10 or so and feel like you can pump out a few more, gone to light....
Ok, not sure how much you weigh...I can give a better layout knowing that. Here's a basic outline of a diet and even workout you can do that as long as you eat, eat, eat, train right and rest, you will grow.
Meal 1:
8 egg whites, 2 yolks
1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 3:
8oz protein
1 sweet potato
1 cup veggies
Meal 4:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
PWO Shake:
20g protein
60g simple carbs
5g creatine
5g glutamine
Meal 5 (within) 20-30 minutes after pwo shake
8oz protein
1 1/2 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 6
8oz protein
1 cup veggies
Bedtime:
1 cup fat free cottage cheese
1/4-1/2 cup natural apple sauce
or
1-2 scoops casein with water
Mon- Push
Wed-Legs
Fri-Pull
Mon:
Flat Bench 4x8-12 reps
Incline Press 3x8-12
Incline Flyes 3x8-12
Side Delt Raises 3x8-12
Reverse Pec Deck 3x8-12
Upright Rows 3x8-12
Dips 3x8-12
Wed:
Squat 5x10-12 reps
Hack Squat 3x8-12
Leg Press 3x10-20
Leg Ext 3x10-15
Lying Leg Curls 4x10-12
Standing LEg Curls 3x10-12
Calves Seated 3x15
Standing 3x15
Fri:
Pull-Ups 3x Failure
Deads 4x8-12
Barbell Rows 3x8-12
Lat Pulls 3x8-12
Cable Rows 3x8-12
Preacher Curls 3x8-10
Abs
Crunches 3x25
Leg Raises 3x25
Weight, as heavy as you can go for those set of reps....if you fall below 8, to heavy if you do 10 or so and feel like you can pump out a few more, gone to light....
Thanks. I weigh 150 lbs. How long should this routine be followed before switching things up?
shizz702
01-08-11, 10:22 pm
Just curious what are you lifting stats?
And 170 at 5'10" you will need to significantly gain more weight to have appreciable mass.
Just curious what are you lifting stats?
And 170 at 5'10" you will need to significantly gain more weight to have appreciable mass.
I was 170 a few months ago. I am now 150. The most i could bench at one time was 245lbs, Squat 335lbs., deadlift 350lbs, barbell curl 120lbs., shoulder press about 160lbs.
Ok, not sure how much you weigh...I can give a better layout knowing that. Here's a basic outline of a diet and even workout you can do that as long as you eat, eat, eat, train right and rest, you will grow.
Meal 1:
8 egg whites, 2 yolks
1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 3:
8oz protein
1 sweet potato
1 cup veggies
Meal 4:
8oz protein
1 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
PWO Shake:
20g protein
60g simple carbs
5g creatine
5g glutamine
Meal 5 (within) 20-30 minutes after pwo shake
8oz protein
1 1/2 cup brown rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 6
8oz protein
1 cup veggies
Bedtime:
1 cup fat free cottage cheese
1/4-1/2 cup natural apple sauce
or
1-2 scoops casein with water
Mon- Push
Wed-Legs
Fri-Pull
Mon:
Flat Bench 4x8-12 reps
Incline Press 3x8-12
Incline Flyes 3x8-12
Side Delt Raises 3x8-12
Reverse Pec Deck 3x8-12
Upright Rows 3x8-12
Dips 3x8-12
Wed:
Squat 5x10-12 reps
Hack Squat 3x8-12
Leg Press 3x10-20
Leg Ext 3x10-15
Lying Leg Curls 4x10-12
Standing LEg Curls 3x10-12
Calves Seated 3x15
Standing 3x15
Fri:
Pull-Ups 3x Failure
Deads 4x8-12
Barbell Rows 3x8-12
Lat Pulls 3x8-12
Cable Rows 3x8-12
Preacher Curls 3x8-10
Abs
Crunches 3x25
Leg Raises 3x25
Weight, as heavy as you can go for those set of reps....if you fall below 8, to heavy if you do 10 or so and feel like you can pump out a few more, gone to light....
Also, how long should this progam be used before switching things up?
shizz702
01-08-11, 10:42 pm
Also, how long should this progam be used before switching things up?
Don't worry about switching things up! Ride it til the wheels fall off. Take some movements that work for you and hammer them into the ground and get as much as you can out of them, then cruise for a bit and start all over again with some new movements.
prowrestler
01-09-11, 12:21 am
Don't worry about switching things up! Ride it til the wheels fall off. Take some movements that work for you and hammer them into the ground and get as much as you can out of them, then cruise for a bit and start all over again with some new movements.
good advise, probably not gonna be used by the original poster though...
Carrnage
01-09-11, 1:23 am
good advise, probably not gonna be used by the original poster though...
for reals haha, mercy on his soul
youngsters these days ya know? lol
MrMonday
01-10-11, 10:49 am
Strength and size are related in that a stronger muscle becomes a bigger muscle (as long as you are eating enough protein and calories). Beyond that it kind of depends on how you define strength.
The difference between a bodybuilder and a powerlifter, is a bodybuilder wants specifically to make his muscles as strong as he can (for instance, a bodybuilder will bench press in the way that most stimulates the chest muscles, even if it means using slightly less weight), and a powerlifter wants only to increase the poundage they can move from point A to point B (sometimes interested in strengthening specific muscles, but generally interested more in the strength of large groups of muscles and using technique and leverage to their advantage... for instance, they don't care what muscles they really use to bench, only that they use as little ROM as possible combined with as much muscular power as possible - driving with the legs, arching the back, etc.)
I would echo what others have said that you simply aren't eating enough, but I also feel it needs to be said that the number of reps you do hardly matters unless you're going to extremes (like 1 rep, or 20 reps... as long as you are staying somewhere in the ordinary 5-15 rep range, you are fine). You don't get big, or strong, from doing an arbitrary number of sets or repetitions... you get big and strong from PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD of both food and poundage.
If BodybuilderA works out for one year, consistently, with a solid program and gains 20lbs of bodyweight and adds 100lbs to his squat, bench, and barbell row all for 6 repetitions..... and his twin BodybuilderB does the exact same, except adds 100lbs to his squat, bench, and row for 10 repetitions.... do you really think they are going to look any different at the end of that year?
Now take their triplet BodybuilderC, who bounced around from program to program, never really being consistent but always trying something new, and he only adds 20lbs to his squat/bench/row at the end of the year.... even though he gained 20lbs of bodyweight...
How do you think he would look compared to his brothers? Maybe like a fat slob?
You just need to stop overthinking this stuff and get serious about what matters. 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, enough calories to gain 3-5lbs a month, adding at least 10lbs a month to your biggest lifts... for months and months on end, if not years, without stopping. You have to pay your dues and it's not easy, but until you do it, you will always be that guy who nobody can even tell lifts weights.
shizz702
01-10-11, 11:41 pm
Strength and size are related in that a stronger muscle becomes a bigger muscle (as long as you are eating enough protein and calories). Beyond that it kind of depends on how you define strength.
The difference between a bodybuilder and a powerlifter, is a bodybuilder wants specifically to make his muscles as strong as he can (for instance, a bodybuilder will bench press in the way that most stimulates the chest muscles, even if it means using slightly less weight), and a powerlifter wants only to increase the poundage they can move from point A to point B (sometimes interested in strengthening specific muscles, but generally interested more in the strength of large groups of muscles and using technique and leverage to their advantage... for instance, they don't care what muscles they really use to bench, only that they use as little ROM as possible combined with as much muscular power as possible - driving with the legs, arching the back, etc.)
I would echo what others have said that you simply aren't eating enough, but I also feel it needs to be said that the number of reps you do hardly matters unless you're going to extremes (like 1 rep, or 20 reps... as long as you are staying somewhere in the ordinary 5-15 rep range, you are fine). You don't get big, or strong, from doing an arbitrary number of sets or repetitions... you get big and strong from PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD of both food and poundage.
If BodybuilderA works out for one year, consistently, with a solid program and gains 20lbs of bodyweight and adds 100lbs to his squat, bench, and barbell row all for 6 repetitions..... and his twin BodybuilderB does the exact same, except adds 100lbs to his squat, bench, and row for 10 repetitions.... do you really think they are going to look any different at the end of that year?
Now take their triplet BodybuilderC, who bounced around from program to program, never really being consistent but always trying something new, and he only adds 20lbs to his squat/bench/row at the end of the year.... even though he gained 20lbs of bodyweight...
How do you think he would look compared to his brothers? Maybe like a fat slob?
You just need to stop overthinking this stuff and get serious about what matters. 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, enough calories to gain 3-5lbs a month, adding at least 10lbs a month to your biggest lifts... for months and months on end, if not years, without stopping. You have to pay your dues and it's not easy, but until you do it, you will always be that guy who nobody can even tell lifts weights.
Monday I got to give you this one, this was a hell of a post and is some very solid advice.
Sinister_TES
01-11-11, 1:31 am
Monday I got to give you this one, this was a hell of a post and is some very solid advice.
x2
Don't worry about switching things up! Ride it til the wheels fall off. Take some movements that work for you and hammer them into the ground and get as much as you can out of them, then cruise for a bit and start all over again with some new movements.
This advice is perfect. Don't worry about switching things up I know people who jump off a routine after three months cause that is the best time to switch they say. But some of the greatest advice I've received was this. If you are making gains why switch? It doesn't make sense use what works until it stops working as simple as that. And if you think you are eating enough you probably aren't
Wow...this thread got hot in a hurry.
My 2 cents is simple...
Strength begets size and size begets strength...
It really isnt too much more complex than that.
MACHINE
Carrnage
01-14-11, 4:46 pm
The way you gain size is through progressive overload in a hypertropy rep range and eating ALOT. How much bigger would you be if you went from squating 225 for 20, to 405 for 20.
This routine is from another site:
Hardgainer Style Training:
There are many people on these boards that have absolutely ZERO knowledge about this style of routine. And unfortunately they are most often the ones that spout off about how it could never work. One of the objections often quoted is “there is no way you could build a competitive physique with a routine like that”. To that I will say “no fucking duh”. No you are right you can’t build a competitive physique on a routine like this. But “duh Einstein” the VAST majority of the trainees out there will never build a competitive physique no matter what they do. That takes great genetics and unfortunately most people just have it. But with proper training most guys can get damn big and strong. Big enough to turn heads wherever they go. For MANY people out there Hardgainer style training is the one and only thing that will get them there. I can’t even count the number of trainees I have seen add 20-40 lbs in a few months after YEARS of making little or no gains. I know, I was one of them! I will make this category really simple on everyone. Do this:
Split your routine up into 2 or 3 days and after warm-ups do:
Bench Press or Dips 2 x 8-12
Bent Row or Pull-up 2 x 8-12
Military or Dumbell Press 2 x 8-12
Squat 2 x 8-12
Stiff Legged Deadlift 2 x 8-12
Weighted Abs 2 x 10
DON’T worry about detail here. The idea is to actually get brutally strong on a core group of lifts instead. Here is something I posted awhile back:
For you people that are always concerned about balance and symmetry, yet don’t grow, yes, you guys.always doing 3-4 exercises per body-part to ensure “complete development” of all “aspects” of a muscle. What if all you did was:
Squats 400 x 20
Stiff-legged deadlifts 375 x 15
Bench Press 315 x 12
Pull-Up with 100 lbs extra weight x 12
Military Press Body-Weight x 10
Calf-Raise 700 x 15
Weighted Sit-Up 175 x 12
How much bigger would you be than you are now, and what muscle would be under developed?!?!?!?!?!?
What if that was ALL THE LIFTS YOU ACTUALLY DID ON A WEEK-TO-WEEK BASIS, BUT ACTUALLY DID THAT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT? AND SINCE THAT WAS ALL YOU DID YOU NEVER OVERTRAINED AND YOU WERE ALWAYS ABLE ADD A LITTLE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT TO THE BAR. HOW MUCH FUCKING BIGGER WOULD YOU BE THAN YOU ARE NOW???????
You also mentioned that you change things up often...don't do that, consistancey and sticking with it is key to gaining size and strength
BINGO!!! BEST post of 2011 so far!!!! People tend to worry so much on how many grams of protein when they should just worry about building a foundation with their training....i mean we grow from stress/hormones....how do we elict those hormones? Heavy compound movements, sleep, eating a "good amount" of food!