View Full Version : Arnold Press vs Dumbell Shoulder Press
Pros & Cons of each one guys?
Discuss, I'm interested to see what comes out of this.
pushin weight
03-07-11, 10:33 pm
Both. I like to finish off my shoulders with the arnold press. I prefer the barbell military press in favor of the standard db press but they all should be rotated in your shoulder routine....no pun intended
Carrnage
03-08-11, 12:32 am
Pros & Cons of each one guys?
Discuss, I'm interested to see what comes out of this.
Arnold Press, you will feel a great burn out of it, if your rotator cuffs can handle going that deep go ahead, but in my take not that usefull due to the heavy poundage being restricted
Dumbbell Press- Great Mass builder, period. Though i like using barbells because once you get to use 350+ on military presses, going that deep fucks your shoulders up big time.
In my last phase of training I was alternating DB Arnolds and DB Presses each session.
I went 10 ten pounds total ligher on the arnolds then the straight up db presses.
Reason being, arnolds are more of a finesse movement and the time under tension is a bit longer than just pressing.
Keep a log book...I was able to bring my arnolds up to my presses and my presses up 5 pounds.
toothpicklegs
03-08-11, 6:51 am
How deep do you go on each of these presses?
i've had some shoulder problems, and I've been suspecting that I'm going too deep, but i don't wanna lose out on rep length either...
Personally I'm a big fan of Arnold presses. How deep? I take my hands down to just below ear height.
How deep do you go on each of these presses?
i've had some shoulder problems, and I've been suspecting that I'm going too deep, but i don't wanna lose out on rep length either...
i go deep as fuck thats the only way I get down when it comes to trainin boulders but thats me and you need to find what works for you
my advice would do 2 test days with light weight high rep 1 day go deep the other not so much and then listen to what yo body tells ya
Having always been a big supporter of the arnold press, I think I'm going to throw in some shoulder presses & as mentioned use the arnolds afterwards for a bit of a finishing touch.
Shoulders are my standout bodypart, & have responded really well to using arnolds as my main exercise.
Will be interesting to see how they react throwing something else in there.
LegendKillerJosh
03-10-11, 12:24 pm
How deep do you go on each of these presses?
i've had some shoulder problems, and I've been suspecting that I'm going too deep, but i don't wanna lose out on rep length either...
Warming up shoulders and stretching them is extremely important just about every workout no matter what you are directly hitting. I go through a long shoulder warm up for chest day, back day, everyday except maybe legs. Do some light presses with just the bar. Use the bar to do front raises and go all the way behind your head. Grab a 10 pound plate or light dumbell and do some arm circles and stretches and stuff, and do them between your first few sets as well to really get the warm, loose and stretched for what they are about to go through. If you injure yourself cause you didn't spend 10 minutes warming up you will be very upset with yourself.
That being said, I don't really ever do Arnold presses. It's like a gimmick to me, I just don't see what the point of going that low and twisting the dumbells around is. I don't think it helps me add size to my delts. My favorite shoulder workout is to lay on a bench with an incline so it's no parallel. Also be sure to keep your butt only lightly on the seat so the pressure is on your legs instead of your lower back. I set the pins in the rack so the bar is level with my chin, so I can begin the movement with the pressing motion and finish with some heavy negatives when I can't do full reps anymore. I've found I can handle some serious poundage that way. I like to do dumbells too for military presses but I do them early in the workout so I don't waste more energy picking the dumbells up and getting them to my shoulder to begin the movement than I do actually pressing the weight. That way I can go to failure on those, then do my side raises and stuff and finish with some heavy barbell presses. But hey, if the Arnold press works for you and adds mass to those delts, then do it. I personally don't do them.
That being said, I don't really ever do Arnold presses. It's like a gimmick to me, I just don't see what the point of going that low and twisting the dumbells around is. I don't think it helps me add size to my delts.
Hello guys the name is Gemini and im indeed new to the forums but not weightlifting. I believe the twisting motion on the Arnold Press is similar to the twisting motion in Supenation Curls. It helps with isolation and a greater degree of motion and emphasis on the muscle in this case the deltoids. I personally do feel it when I use this exercise as opposed to using an exercise without a twisting feature or even a lesser range of motion. From my experience every angle you work your muscles the better fullness and development youll get in that particular muscle group your working. So I personally wouldn't count this exercise out. But thats just my 2 cents and my own personal experience. People can correct me if im wrong here. But im very sure of why the twisting motion is in this exercise. But this is not to say I favor Arnold Presses over Dumbell Shoulder Presses. I personally incorperate both in my workouts. I try to target every muscle from every angle possible. Not all in the same day of course. Muscle confusion is a key part in my own program. So I use different exercises each week to keep my muscles guessing as well as the different angles and different benefits of each seperate workout.
Aggression
03-10-11, 12:58 pm
I always thought of the regular dumbbell press as a mass builder and/or primary movement, much like the barbell press. With Arnold Presses, I always looked to them as a secondary movement, or a finisher.
I would consider them both mass builders IMO. Why? Because they are both compound exercises. I have some general rules in my own bodybuilding and workout routines, which are also facts. Compound exercises should always be done first in a workout as well as freeweights should be done first in the workout. Why, because compound exercises allow you to move the most weight possible. Which more weight being moved means more work done to the muscle and more muscle growth. Freeweights being done first in a given routine are given priority as well because they require the most muscle fibers to keep the move steady. They require more balance and effort to keep proper form with high weight amount. My own personal workouts have these 2 exercises being done as starting workouts. I can move alot more weight early on and keep the proper form for a better pump. Then move down the tree with isolation moves and cables if people use cable machines. I personally use a gym so have everything at my disposal which i use it all and my own techniquires thrown into the mix. I mean im not saying this is how it should be done. But I do believe and it is true you want compound and free weights done first in a exercise. So if people favor 1 of these other the other they should favor both IMO. Although Arnold Presses favor the Anterior Deltoids more then the Should Press alone, because of positioning. Shoulder press is more of a all around Deltoid exercise. So I think both are great exericises, and respectively deserve there places in a full shoulder routine. Maybe not in the same day. I do my workouts different probably. An example for how I do my shoulders is 1 week I target all but I do 1 extra exercise for the posterior deltoids. Then the next week ill remove that exericse and favor the Anterior Deltoids that week. Then the next week the middle deltoid and go back. That way they grow symetrically and at the same rate. Thats just me though. I have a weird science behind my routines.
Enjoying the discussion going on here. I like picking people's brains about their own opinions/experiences & this is the best place to do it.
I hit shoulders the other day & once I was done repping out the Arnolds, I moved straight into a few shoulder presses. It reminded me of something Machine said once about giving yourself a physical disadvantage, then removing that disadvantage.
In this case, you're at a disadvantage with the Arnold Press, which means you can't lift as heavy. Once you can't rep any more in that style, move it straight into a Shoulder Press. Because you're stronger in the Shoulder Press, you can keep repping for a few more, but due to the fatigue caused by the Arnolds, you're now struggling (but not yet failing) to rep the same weight.
In short, it burned like the shits & helped with a bloody good pump.
LegendKillerJosh
03-10-11, 8:15 pm
Hello guys the name is Gemini and im indeed new to the forums but not weightlifting. I believe the twisting motion on the Arnold Press is similar to the twisting motion in Supenation Curls. It helps with isolation and a greater degree of motion and emphasis on the muscle in this case the deltoids. I personally do feel it when I use this exercise as opposed to using an exercise without a twisting feature or even a lesser range of motion. From my experience every angle you work your muscles the better fullness and development youll get in that particular muscle group your working. So I personally wouldn't count this exercise out. But thats just my 2 cents and my own personal experience. People can correct me if im wrong here. But im very sure of why the twisting motion is in this exercise. But this is not to say I favor Arnold Presses over Dumbell Shoulder Presses. I personally incorperate both in my workouts. I try to target every muscle from every angle possible. Not all in the same day of course. Muscle confusion is a key part in my own program. So I use different exercises each week to keep my muscles guessing as well as the different angles and different benefits of each seperate workout.
I'm not arguing with you but why is a twisting motion good for building deltoids? Twisting the dumbells during curls is appropriate because the primary purpose of the bicep is to twist the arm and curling the arm upwards is its secondary function. The deltoids are a very unique muscle group in their functioning, but I believe the main focus is to raise the arm, not twist it. I could be wrong, I'm not really an exercise physiologist. However I have noticed that I can't handle as much weight on the Arnold press as standard dumbell presses, and I tend to stick with exercises I can handle the most weights on. Not because I'm an egotist or anything, I've just never seen someone that is very strong that is not also huge.
I always thought of the regular dumbbell press as a mass builder and/or primary movement, much like the barbell press. With Arnold Presses, I always looked to them as a secondary movement, or a finisher.
I agree 100%. I love the dumbbell press and always do one shoulder at a time. Because of my lack of equipment I like doing these individually instead of pressing both at once, because it makes the lats work to stabalize and I get a good lat workout at the same time. Gotta love that.
I'm not arguing with you but why is a twisting motion good for building deltoids? Twisting the dumbells during curls is appropriate because the primary purpose of the bicep is to twist the arm and curling the arm upwards is its secondary function. The deltoids are a very unique muscle group in their functioning, but I believe the main focus is to raise the arm, not twist it. I could be wrong, I'm not really an exercise physiologist. However I have noticed that I can't handle as much weight on the Arnold press as standard dumbell presses, and I tend to stick with exercises I can handle the most weights on. Not because I'm an egotist or anything, I've just never seen someone that is very strong that is not also huge.
Well anyone can chime in if they have additional info but. Pretty much the twisting affect is all with range of motion. Its the same with almost any exercise on any body part. For example when you put your elbows in front of the plane of your body like a preacher curl you are working your short head of the biceps. When you go behind the plane of your body such as a incline bench dumbbell curl you work your long heads of the biceps. Same thing with wide grip and close grip curls. One targets the inner (shorter) head more and the other targets the longer (outer) head. It all has to do with elbow placement of your body. This is what affects the part of bicep that is emphasized. Triceps has similar thing. Theres 3 triceps muscles and doing just pulldowns wont work the full tricep. When you do over the head tricep exercise like a skull crusher you are working the longer triceps head. When your arms are by your sides your working the 2 smaller triceps heads which examples of those are pressdowns. I mean I know im just a newbie on the forums but bodybuilding is all about angles. Sorta like geometry litteraly. I use science behind my routines and how the body works. Different motions work and target different muscle parts. Just like triceps or biceps. Even with legs and Shoulders. Actually every single muscle group benefits. Now maybe I went to in debpth maybe I didn;t but the point im getting to is this. The twisting motion is the same thing. If you just kept your arms in one direction it is a smaller range of motion. Which is targetting less muscle. When you do a shoulder press you go up and down. When you do an Arnold Press you start with your palms facing inward but you arc them going up. Its not just an upo and down motion. Thus giving you more range then a shoulder press but the twisting also adds a new angle targeting a different area then just a standard up and down motion such as a dumbbell shoulder press would do. The advantage the Arnold Press has is the increased range of motion. But its in the downward motion not the upward motion of the move. Also it provides a greater stretch as opposed to the Dumbbell Shoulder Press. This is probably why people cant handle as much weight with the Arnold Presses as oppsoed to Shoulder Presses. More work is involved over the course of 1 rep. But more important the real reason is because Shoulder Presses target involve all 3 deltoids. Arnolds target the Anterior (front) deltoids. This is also another reason you cant handle as much weight with an Arnold Pres versus a Shoulder Press. The Shoulder Press uses all 3 deltoids thus allowing more weight lifted. My shoulder routine incorperates 1 all around shoulder excercise. 2 specific deltoid movements depending on which deltoid I want to target that day. And 1 of each. So 5 total. 1 targeting all deltoids. 2 targeting 1 specific deltoid. And 1 targeting 1 and 1 targeting the other. So 1 day I might have 2 exercises targeting just my middle deltoids. 1 targeting front deltoid and 1 targeting back and I start the day off with 1 incroperating all 3 deltoids. I hope this helped you. Maybe it was too indepth. Sorry I just figured itd be easier to cover the entire basis. To explain my reasoning.
Carrnage
03-12-11, 9:28 pm
How deep do you go on each of these presses?
i've had some shoulder problems, and I've been suspecting that I'm going too deep, but i don't wanna lose out on rep length either...
Going really deep over time will give you shoulder / rotator cuff problems, espeically the stronger you get.
Carrnage
03-12-11, 9:30 pm
I'm not arguing with you but why is a twisting motion good for building deltoids? Twisting the dumbells during curls is appropriate because the primary purpose of the bicep is to twist the arm and curling the arm upwards is its secondary function. The deltoids are a very unique muscle group in their functioning, but I believe the main focus is to raise the arm, not twist it. I could be wrong, I'm not really an exercise physiologist. However I have noticed that I can't handle as much weight on the Arnold press as standard dumbell presses, and I tend to stick with exercises I can handle the most weights on. Not because I'm an egotist or anything, I've just never seen someone that is very strong that is not also huge.
Getting huge is from increasing testosterone,gh,igf-1,vegf to the potential every day / workout.
prowrestler
03-13-11, 1:08 pm
fuck both.
heavy barbell press, standing or seated, what ever makes you sleep at night.
BryanSmash!
03-13-11, 2:08 pm
From a powerlifting point of view, I prefer a standing barbell press in strict form and also push presses to strengthen my shoulders. Dumbell presses dont do a whole lot for me unless im doing a deload or Im rehabbing an injury.
Heres how I do my overhead pressing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6EvBWD0v-Q
Heres how I do my push pressing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCSba3uTrQU
I usually dont do isolation exercises or rotator cuff exercises because I dont have to. I have always used full range reps and my rotators have adapted over time. Its important to realize that Im not a physique competitor, so how my delts look is irrelevant, I just need them to be strong enough to support the load when Im bench pressing. I have very large delts because of my training, so from a bodybuilding standpoint, I always recommend that those who are looking for more mass give a strength training cycle a whirl.
Also, I come from an old school lifting background, and back in the day before the bench press came along, the measure of a mans worth in the gym was how much he could strictly press overhead in a full range of motion, so thats another reason I constantly train on that particular lift in that particular fashion.
For you bodybuilders out there, you should pay special attention to your delts because theyre the only bodypart thats always visible in every one of your mandatory poses. Train all three heads equally, and also as an added bonus, your delts are the first place youre going to start seeing striations.
Hope that helps, happy lifting!
Getting huge is from increasing testosterone,gh,igf-1,vegf to the potential every day / workout.
Lifting heavy = increased testosterone = lifting heavier.
A closed circle.
Gonna throw my fucking hat into the ring on this one...
I "personally" do not see the logical necessity of the Arnold Press - sorry Arnold...I cannot see the purpose in destabilizing a joint through the motion of a press while applying progressive overload.
I will say this though I have found great utility in performing "prone" dumbell presses - these are done with the palms facing your ears and the bells lowered as close to the shoulder as possible but be careful as you tire so you dont end up smashing yourself in the head with a bell. You will find that the shoulder is stressed in a different manner than with traditional dumbell presses with palms facing the mirror. I think it best to alternate between the prone and traditional method of dumbell shoulder presses.
That said; I also like to perfom barbell military presses, trap bar standing presses - you need an auxillary power station to perform these, and smith machine military presses perfomred with a reverse grip again careful not to lose your grip and eat steel - these will offer you a non-traditional burn and a great switch up for those lackluster shoulder sessions.
Just my opinion...and of course- mileage may vary.
MACHINE
Gonna throw my fucking hat into the ring on this one...
I "personally" do not see the logical necessity of the Arnold Press - sorry Arnold...I cannot see the purpose in destabilizing a joint through the motion of a press while applying progressive overload.
I will say this though I have found great utility in performing "prone" dumbell presses - these are done with the palms facing your ears and the bells lowered as close to the shoulder as possible but be careful as you tire so you dont end up smashing yourself in the head with a bell. You will find that the shoulder is stressed in a different manner than with traditional dumbell presses with palms facing the mirror. I think it best to alternate between the prone and traditional method of dumbell shoulder presses.
That said; I also like to perfom barbell military presses, trap bar standing presses - you need an auxillary power station to perform these, and smith machine military presses perfomred with a reverse grip again careful not to lose your grip and eat steel - these will offer you a non-traditional burn and a great switch up for those lackluster shoulder sessions.
Just my opinion...and of course- mileage may vary.
MACHINE
Would the "prone" dumbell press place slightly more emphasis on the anterior delt than the traditional dumbell press?
prowrestler
03-14-11, 2:15 am
Would the "prone" dumbell press place slightly more emphasis on the anterior delt than the traditional dumbell press?
hell ya, done them back before.
the feeling is also much... "tighter' for lack of better words
hell ya, done them back before.
the feeling is also much... "tighter' for lack of better words
Might have to throw some in to mix things up a bit.
Would the "prone" dumbell press place slightly more emphasis on the anterior delt than the traditional dumbell press?
Absolutely...these are highly recommended to add new shoulder size
MACHINE
Absolutely...these are highly recommended to add new shoulder size
MACHINE
Sounds sweet. Bigger shoulders is always a good thing.