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twoheadedboy
04-09-11, 9:40 pm
Has anybody completely or almost completely avoided or replaced running/elliptical bike by utilizing high rep weight training? I'm going to start a cut in about a month and a half and I've been considering doing something like 10x10 front squats + overhead press, deads, and chins, at a weight low enough to complete all of this rapidly with minimal rest.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all about amount of time + heart rate range when it comes to fat burning, and slow-long-distance cardio has a very catabolic reputation. I'm not a huge fan of HIIT either because while there's some metabolic carryover once you're done, I don't feel as though enough time is being spent doing the work and it's too stressful to do HIIT for say an hour.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences using weight training to replace cardio, if anyone has tried anything like this.

korinek00
04-09-11, 9:51 pm
You could:

(a) Pick a crossfit workout off their website because that is what you're describing.

(b)You could experiment with you're own weights, reps, and routine.

(c) Or, you can find a big ass hill, put a #40 weight vest on, and sprint till you puke.

But, yes, what you're describing does work. Just get you're heart rate jacked.

Mickey
04-10-11, 3:06 am
from what you're saying in would recommend cutting down your rest periods. the difference between many pros bulking and off season is the difference between their difference in rest time between sets. Many a bodybuilder, from Sergio to Jay, have been known to modify their routines based upon the time of year (season) they were in. During a bulking season, it is not uncommon for a bodybuilder to wait two or three minutes between sets of heavy, compound movements; while rest periods during isolation movements (such as dumbbell concentration curls) shorten to thirty to sixty seconds. while this may not seem like much of a difference, ask any experienced lifter and he will tell you this tiny tweak makes a huge difference...

Back To Basics
04-10-11, 5:26 am
Doing weight training + Cardio has been shown to nearly double the results of a cut, hard weight training just like the offseason plus cardio is the most effective - if your doing cardio on weights your muscles are just not going to be receiving the same amount of stress which is needed to keep them there. Sure you might do high reps and feel a burn and shit but the same amount of weight that was needed to put them there is not going to be present.

PORTERHOUSE
04-10-11, 3:21 pm
Has anybody completely or almost completely avoided or replaced running/elliptical bike by utilizing high rep weight training? I'm going to start a cut in about a month and a half and I've been considering doing something like 10x10 front squats + overhead press, deads, and chins, at a weight low enough to complete all of this rapidly with minimal rest.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all about amount of time + heart rate range when it comes to fat burning, and slow-long-distance cardio has a very catabolic reputation. I'm not a huge fan of HIIT either because while there's some metabolic carryover once you're done, I don't feel as though enough time is being spent doing the work and it's too stressful to do HIIT for say an hour.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences using weight training to replace cardio, if anyone has tried anything like this.

I personally would never do this, but if you want to see if it works for you or not, you have to get in there, fully commit yourself and see what happens.

I mean shit I do cardio when I bulk, if I got on here and asked if I should be or not, I would get a myriad or conflicting responses. If you want to do it man, go do it. If it doesn't work, at very least you will have learned what not to do, which is equally as important as learning what to do.

Bruiser
04-10-11, 3:31 pm
I just read an article in Muscular Development that said Jason Huh does high rep chest workouts on an empty stomach first thing in the moorning to help burn fat and keep lean muscle.

PORTERHOUSE
04-10-11, 5:05 pm
I just read an article in Muscular Development that said Jason Huh does high rep chest workouts on an empty stomach first thing in the moorning to help burn fat and keep lean muscle.

thats interesting... I could never lift on a completely empty stomach because I would be way too hungry, which to me is the worst feeling in the world... but I have recently started going to the gym even earlier than usual, and I have been eating only: 1/2 scoop whey,1/2 scoop casein, 40 g oats about 60-90 mins before hand. Im using either lic or hiit post workout, and other than that im eating a big diet, cleaner than what I would for an all out bulk, but not anywhere near a cut. My strength is still increasing and my bf% is actually dropping, my overall physique is improving. I wont be doing a "cut" this year, just cleaning up a bit, but as well as this is working for me, I will be on this plan indefinitely, until it stalls.

Bruiser
04-10-11, 5:09 pm
thats interesting... I could never lift on a completely empty stomach because I would be way too hungry, which to me is the worst feeling in the world... but I have recently started going to the gym even earlier than usual, and I have been eating only: 1/2 scoop whey,1/2 scoop casein, 40 g oats about 60-90 mins before hand. Im using either lic or hiit post workout, and other than that im eating a big diet, cleaner than what I would for an all out bulk, but not anywhere near a cut. My strength is still increasing and my bf% is actually dropping, my overall physique is improving. I wont be doing a "cut" this year, just cleaning up a bit, but as well as this is working for me, I will be on this plan indefinitely, until it stalls.

I'm two weeks into my cut and you just described how I was planning to run my "bulk" after I'm done with this cut. It sounds like it's solid and working well for you. Gives me a little more confidence in it. Thanks bro.

Carrnage
04-10-11, 6:21 pm
Has anybody completely or almost completely avoided or replaced running/elliptical bike by utilizing high rep weight training? I'm going to start a cut in about a month and a half and I've been considering doing something like 10x10 front squats + overhead press, deads, and chins, at a weight low enough to complete all of this rapidly with minimal rest.

As far as I'm concerned, it's all about amount of time + heart rate range when it comes to fat burning, and slow-long-distance cardio has a very catabolic reputation. I'm not a huge fan of HIIT either because while there's some metabolic carryover once you're done, I don't feel as though enough time is being spent doing the work and it's too stressful to do HIIT for say an hour.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences using weight training to replace cardio, if anyone has tried anything like this.

I actually do something similar to this during my offseason, really just to stay somewhat lean for example

Shoulder-
side laterals 6x20-6 (30 secs rest between sets)
upright rows 5x20-6 (same)
rear laterals 5x20-6 (same)
behind neck press 5x20-6 (same, but on your last set perform a rest pause or drop set)

Obviously i wont be doing my typical 400lb+ military presses when training this, but ive found training with high volume, low rest time, with a monster mindset/attitude, while covering all the rep ranges from 20+ all the way down to 6 works like a charm! I noticed my whole body getting leaner due to the GH being released from this kind of training, and my size....i can proudly say im growing like a weeds training like this.

Bruiser
04-10-11, 6:27 pm
I actually do something similar to this during my offseason, really just to stay somewhat lean for example

Shoulder-
side laterals 6x20-6 (30 secs rest between sets)
upright rows 5x20-6 (same)
rear laterals 5x20-6 (same)
behind neck press 5x20-6 (same, but on your last set perform a rest pause or drop set)

Obviously i wont be doing my typical 400lb+ military presses when training this, but ive found training with high volume, low rest time, with a monster mindset/attitude, while covering all the rep ranges from 20+ all the way down to 6 works like a charm! I noticed my whole body getting leaner due to the GH being released from this kind of training, and my size....i can proudly say im growing like a weeds training like this.

Damn, between you and PORTERHOUSE, I think you guys have laid out my new "bulk cycle" training I'm going to do after my cut is over in a few weeks!! Thanks guys.

Carrnage
04-10-11, 6:32 pm
Damn, between you and PORTERHOUSE, I think you guys have laid out my new "bulk cycle" training I'm going to do after my cut is over in a few weeks!! Thanks guys.

Thats the spirit, everyone wondes how i put on size and stay somewhat lean, i tell them....low rest time...heavy compound movements, and mcdonals....seriously.

lol

JasonG
04-10-11, 8:42 pm
Check out my iron contest log. Dannynb had me doing 30 sec between sets and at one point 10x10. At the beginning of training under his direction my weight training felt like a serious cardio session! I got accustomed to it, but it was still effective for burning calories and working the muscle I think.

GUNS
04-11-11, 12:17 am
As I do think high volume can be benificial, I would steer away from it as your complete workout.

If you think about it, you bust your ass lifting heavy as you can, that builds muscle. Yes I know they don't grow in the gym, but why would you change up what your muscles are growing from. You change it up and go high reps, your muscles are not working hard anymore so they don't need to be as big, they will shrink.

Now, I do beleive in changing up your workouts' but not drop using as heavy as you can weights.

I am currently tightening up, but my bench, squat and deads are still at my best.
What I am currently doing, take your heavy compound movement, put it first in your workout. Spend your normal time doing that exercise as heavy as you can, strictly, for me with my big 3, this takes about 30 minutes. Then for the other 30 minutes, do as you are saying and hit everything with less rest time, moving from set to set with less than a minute in between.

So you get your heavy sets in up front, then all your acessories done and sweat your ass off all in one.

And this is just what is working for me.

Example,
Flat bench, working up to your max, take the rest you need to get ready for your next set.

Incline DB
Pec-Dec's or flies
Speed bench
All three of these done with 30 sec rest in between sets. You could be done with these in less than 15-20 minutes.

All you need to do is clean up your diet, and this will work wonders.

Im sure you get the picture. Try it out!

Loomis
04-11-11, 8:48 am
Thats the spirit, everyone wondes how i put on size and stay somewhat lean, i tell them....low rest time...heavy compound movements, and mcdonals....seriously.

lol

Nice!

Loomis
04-11-11, 8:52 am
I personally would never do this, but if you want to see if it works for you or not, you have to get in there, fully commit yourself and see what happens.

I mean shit I do cardio when I bulk, if I got on here and asked if I should be or not, I would get a myriad or conflicting responses. If you want to do it man, go do it. If it doesn't work, at very least you will have learned what not to do, which is equally as important as learning what to do.

agreed, everyone is different... try it and see what happens. the iron game is a marathon not a sprint, so take your time and find what works for you.

Deathride
04-15-11, 4:13 pm
Plenty of viewpoints here. My personal cardio is a hill run once a week and a metabolic day where I superset a variety of explosive movements together in a complex to up the heart rate.

Picking any three or four movements and just throwing them together. Usually one explosive movement, one pull and one push / leg. For example, power clean, pullup and pushup. Db snatches are a particular favourite of mine....just to throw something completely different in! Few cycles and you're done :-) And I've upped my calories significantly without gaining massive amounts of fat and maintaining my strength on my main lifts....

Carrnage
04-15-11, 9:58 pm
As I do think high volume can be benificial, I would steer away from it as your complete workout.

If you think about it, you bust your ass lifting heavy as you can, that builds muscle. Yes I know they don't grow in the gym, but why would you change up what your muscles are growing from. You change it up and go high reps, your muscles are not working hard anymore so they don't need to be as big, they will shrink.

Now, I do beleive in changing up your workouts' but not drop using as heavy as you can weights.

I am currently tightening up, but my bench, squat and deads are still at my best.
What I am currently doing, take your heavy compound movement, put it first in your workout. Spend your normal time doing that exercise as heavy as you can, strictly, for me with my big 3, this takes about 30 minutes. Then for the other 30 minutes, do as you are saying and hit everything with less rest time, moving from set to set with less than a minute in between.

So you get your heavy sets in up front, then all your acessories done and sweat your ass off all in one.

And this is just what is working for me.

Example,
Flat bench, working up to your max, take the rest you need to get ready for your next set.

Incline DB
Pec-Dec's or flies
Speed bench
All three of these done with 30 sec rest in between sets. You could be done with these in less than 15-20 minutes.

All you need to do is clean up your diet, and this will work wonders.

Im sure you get the picture. Try it out!

I hope you dont mind if i steal that chest routine/technique from ya? That looks killa

GUNS
04-16-11, 12:09 am
Yeah, man. I really beleive in no matter whats going on, lift heavy as fuck, first.