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Universal Rep
05-20-11, 9:42 am
What do ya think Corporate should do? Some of us are kickin' around ideas here... http://www.universalusa.com/Community/Forum/Live/2011-Olympia-Universal

rev8ball
05-20-11, 10:07 am
I'm not really sure why it has to be one or the other exclusively. I like how it's been done at both the O and the Arnold: the Cage with a bit of UN thrown in. In fact, I remember an O where they had the Cage with a small UN booth right next to it - did pretty well...

But, if it has to be one or the other, than def ANIMAL. Those few years when Universal did not have a presence at the O, all I kept hearing was "Where's the CAGE? Animal needs to be here!" Plus, with it being held in Sin City, people expect the edge, the gritty, the hardcore, the almost cult-like atmosphere that is the O. Corp, please don't take this the wrong way, but I think only going UN is a little too foo-foo for Vegas....

Big D
05-20-11, 10:14 am
Animal NEEDS to be in Vegas... its as simple as that... theres no away around it.

why the thought to change /make it one or the other?

why not the cage and a booth with Animal AND Universal Products?

ANIMAL banners along WITH Universal ??

ghost
05-20-11, 10:19 am
i know ill be there... that is all that matters. hahaha.

Big D
05-20-11, 10:21 am
i know ill be there... that is all that matters. hahaha.

ill be in vegas getting weird

ghost
05-20-11, 10:22 am
ill be in vegas getting weird

just make sure you are on time for the abc this year!

MRmichael.hooker
05-20-11, 10:22 am
Animal NEEDS to be in Vegas... its as simple as that... theres no away around it.

why the thought to change /make it one or the other?

why not the cage and a booth with Animal AND Universal Products?

ANIMAL banners along WITH Universal ??

yup. the products go hand in hand, the companies are 1 in the same, they should be there together.

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 10:44 am
I'm not really sure why it has to be one or the other exclusively. I like how it's been done at both the O and the Arnold: the Cage with a bit of UN thrown in. In fact, I remember an O where they had the Cage with a small UN booth right next to it - did pretty well...

But, if it has to be one or the other, than def ANIMAL. Those few years when Universal did not have a presence at the O, all I kept hearing was "Where's the CAGE? Animal needs to be here!" Plus, with it being held in Sin City, people expect the edge, the gritty, the hardcore, the almost cult-like atmosphere that is the O. Corp, please don't take this the wrong way, but I think only going UN is a little too foo-foo for Vegas....

Meh, ain't nuthin hardcore about Vegas to me. C-bus def seems more gritty, hardcore and workin' class. To me, Vegas is all sizzle. It's all bout bein' slick and casinos and showgirls and glitz. Now I ain't talkin' bout the people, but the town. The town tries so hard to be sumthin else... Eiffel Tower? Statue of Liberty? Vegas should focus more on being uniquely its own and not pretendin' to be sumthin else... My $0.02.

Mr. Dead
05-20-11, 11:05 am
Meh, ain't nuthin hardcore about Vegas to me. C-bus def seems more gritty, hardcore and workin' class. To me, Vegas is all sizzle. It's all bout bein' slick and casinos and showgirls and glitz. Now I ain't talkin' bout the people, but the town. The town tries so hard to be sumthin else... Eiffel Tower? Statue of Liberty? Vegas should focus more on being uniquely its own and not pretendin' to be sumthin else... My $0.02.

Interesting... I just posted a similar thought, elsewhere...

Big D
05-20-11, 11:23 am
Meh, ain't nuthin hardcore about Vegas to me. C-bus def seems more gritty, hardcore and workin' class. To me, Vegas is all sizzle. It's all bout bein' slick and casinos and showgirls and glitz. Now I ain't talkin' bout the people, but the town. The town tries so hard to be sumthin else... Eiffel Tower? Statue of Liberty? Vegas should focus more on being uniquely its own and not pretendin' to be sumthin else... My $0.02.


Interesting... I just posted a similar thought, elsewhere...

but the location shouldnt have a influence on what brand they market... the cage is for badasses... that goes without saying... and the ANIMAL line is a more badass line IMO... but why not market both AND sell both to appease both sides of the specturm???

MRmichael.hooker
05-20-11, 11:37 am
If you were going to go with just one and the choice ended up being Universal side, I wouldn't really go with the cage. The theme of Universal is old-school, true to the core bodybuilding, so i would try to come up with something else; muscle beach or something (which would actually work out better at the Arnold, considering Arnold IS old school bodybuilding). I think it should definently be Animal & Universal together, Cage.

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 11:38 am
but the location shouldnt have a influence on what brand they market... the cage is for badasses... that goes without saying... and the ANIMAL line is a more badass line IMO... but why not market both AND sell both to appease both sides of the specturm???

Completely agree on Animal's badassery. That said, from what I can tell, I think Corporate wants Universal to be similar but diff at the same time. Less hardcore, but more friendly, approachable and laid back. That's why the brand is linked in their marketing to the 70s Golden Age and this idea of "community".

In that thread over on USA, there was talk of that... In fact, I brought it up. Have The Cage on one side of the aisle for the liftin' and sweatin'. Then, the fellas can walk across the aisle to Universal to relax, shoot the shit and grab an Atomic 7 shake, etc.

Keep in mind we're just talkin'. In the end, Corporate may have already decided not to go.... Or go as one, the other or both. If I were part of the decision making tho, I'd be thinking about the costs vs. benefits. IMHO, tradeshows have limited appeal cuz they only reach a small # of folks, especially at the Olympia. Let's say ya ran a booth and it cost $200,000 for the Olympia. Is that $200,000 better spent on one brand or splittin' ur resources? And more importantly, what do ya truly get for that amount? Those are the tough questions...

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 11:40 am
If you were going to go with just one and the choice ended up being Universal side, I wouldn't really go with the cage. The theme of Universal is old-school, true to the core bodybuilding, so i would try to come up with something else; muscle beach or something (which would actually work out better at the Arnold, considering Arnold IS old school bodybuilding). I think it should definently be Animal & Universal together, Cage.

See, now that's thinkin'. Muscle Beach epitomizes the Golden Age for many. Vegas is close enough to that whole vibe... the proximity, the weather, etc.

SuperFlexSteve
05-20-11, 11:43 am
but the location shouldnt have a influence on what brand they market... the cage is for badasses... that goes without saying... and the ANIMAL line is a more badass line IMO... but why not market both AND sell both to appease both sides of the specturm???

I agree completely. They are two different brands but the same company. I don't see a problem with promoting both in the same area unless whatever rules for vendors states only one brand per booth or some crap like that. Then I could understand from a cost perspective, to find out which brand would be best to represent. I think it's kinda clear Animal is the more recognizable line but with Universal doing their whole old school is back theme could make for a badass old school setting in their booth at the O.

MRmichael.hooker
05-20-11, 11:44 am
See, now that's thinkin'. Muscle Beach epitomizes the Golden Age for many. Vegas is close enough to that whole vibe... the proximity, the weather, etc.

cough cough, corporate hiring? cough cough

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 11:44 am
cough cough, corporate hiring? cough cough

Get in line.


I got dibs. Haha.

MRmichael.hooker
05-20-11, 11:47 am
Get in line.


I got dibs. Haha.

All I know is if the muscle beach idea were to take off, i better get to use the mic at the event lol

rev8ball
05-20-11, 11:54 am
Meh, ain't nuthin hardcore about Vegas to me. C-bus def seems more gritty, hardcore and workin' class. To me, Vegas is all sizzle. It's all bout bein' slick and casinos and showgirls and glitz. Now I ain't talkin' bout the people, but the town. The town tries so hard to be sumthin else... Eiffel Tower? Statue of Liberty? Vegas should focus more on being uniquely its own and not pretendin' to be sumthin else... My $0.02.

Vegas is all about the extreme; Columbus is waaaaay to low key. That's why the Animal tatoos got stopped in OH, and were welcomed with open arms in LV.....


but the location shouldnt have a influence on what brand they market... the cage is for badasses... that goes without saying... and the ANIMAL line is a more badass line IMO... but why not market both AND sell both to appease both sides of the specturm???

Bingo....


In that thread over on USA, there was talk of that... In fact, I brought it up. Have The Cage on one side of the aisle for the liftin' and sweatin'. Then, the fellas can walk across the aisle to Universal to relax, shoot the shit and grab an Atomic 7 shake, etc.

Agreed. Like I said in my first post, they did that the last O they were at before they took their hiatus, and it worked....

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 12:03 pm
Vegas is all about the extreme; Columbus is waaaaay to low key. That's why the Animal tatoos got stopped in OH, and were welcomed with open arms in LV.....



Bingo....



Agreed. Like I said in my first post, they did that the last O they were at before they took their hiatus, and it worked....

Haha, yeah very true. Vegas is about extremes. Yeah, I never understood why the tats got stopped in The CAGE. From what I heard secondhand, the show organizers asked Corporate to bring the Animal tats to Vegas that one year... Still, to me the main question is, how do ya use ur resources and how valuable are tradeshows in this day and age? Split it over two brands or focus on one?

rev8ball
05-20-11, 12:10 pm
Still, to me the main question is, how do ya use ur resources and how valuable are tradeshows in this day and age?

Very true, espcially in this suck-ass economy. I know that, personally this year, I've gone from 3 trade shows down to one, and even that one I'm starting to second-guess if I'll do it.....

Big D
05-20-11, 12:12 pm
Haha, yeah very true. Vegas is about extremes. Yeah, I never understood why the tats got stopped in The CAGE. From what I heard secondhand, the show organizers asked Corporate to bring the Animal tats to Vegas that one year... Still, to me the main question is, how do ya use ur resources and how valuable are tradeshows in this day and age? Split it over two brands or focus on one?

buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt you dont really go to a trade show for the revenue.. atleast that wouldnt be my first goal... you go to a tradeshow to promote the brands... whatever one it is... if your main goal is to make a shit ton of money than you shouldnt be going to a tradeshow... you really think Animal makes a huge % of their yearly profit at the Arnold or Olmypia? no. granted they sell a fuckload of stuff... they are promoting themselves in hopes that everyone that walked by the cage and checked us out go home and start ordering their stuff and instead of having a one time buyer you have a lifelong buyer..

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 12:17 pm
buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt you dont really go to a trade show for the revenue.. atleast that wouldnt be my first goal... you go to a tradeshow to promote the brands... whatever one it is... if your main goal is to make a shit ton of money than you shouldnt be going to a tradeshow... you really think Animal makes a huge % of their yearly profit at the Arnold or Olmypia? no. granted they sell a fuckload of stuff... they are promoting themselves in hopes that everyone that walked by the cage and checked us out go home and start ordering their stuff and instead of having a one time buyer you have a lifelong buyer..

Agreed. Ya don't go for the revenue (tho from what I hear, Animal sells out of tons and tons of t-shirts at the Arnold while other supp companies give 'em away)... Like ya said, ya go to promote the brands. But the argument here is, what is the traffic for the Olympia? 20k? 30k? Let's say it's 35k over the weekend. How many are unique visitors? Let's assume it's 20k. Now let's say ya spend $200k to reach those 20k. Of those 20k, let's say ya only reach 2k. That would be $100/head. That ain't cheap. Plus, who are ya reachin'? New customers or existing, loyal customers? To grow, you gotta reach out and get new ones. Now, let's say ya took $200k and spent the money on ads. How many would ya reach? I realize an ad and a tradeshow are two completely diff animals, but ya get the picture.

SuperFlexSteve
05-20-11, 12:26 pm
Still, to me the main question is, how do ya use ur resources and how valuable are tradeshows in this day and age? Split it over two brands or focus on one?

I don't know what the demographics of the people that attend bodybuilding shows are, but a good guess would be 95% + are people that are actively involved in the game. That being said, they have a good idea about the brands that bring quality to the table. To me, the whole presence at a trade show is to give back to the community and give them a physical representation of the company instead of just ad's in a magazine or whatever the case may be. Knowing that, you would think you would point most of your resources to what's going to give them the most memorable experience and as a company you have to be creative with that(ie. the cage). A split vendor area of Universal/Animal would definitely have the potential to shock the crowd in attendance.

Big D
05-20-11, 12:51 pm
Agreed. Ya don't go for the revenue (tho from what I hear, Animal sells out of tons and tons of t-shirts at the Arnold while other supp companies give 'em away)... Like ya said, ya go to promote the brands. But the argument here is, what is the traffic for the Olympia? 20k? 30k? Let's say it's 35k over the weekend. How many are unique visitors? Let's assume it's 20k. Now let's say ya spend $200k to reach those 20k. Of those 20k, let's say ya only reach 2k. That would be $100/head. That ain't cheap. Plus, who are ya reachin'? New customers or existing, loyal customers? To grow, you gotta reach out and get new ones. Now, let's say ya took $200k and spent the money on ads. How many would ya reach? I realize an ad and a tradeshow are two completely diff animals, but ya get the picture.

thats if you break it down by person whos there... but what if not all 35k people in attendance are loyal fans and what if because of the split booth Animal/Universal reach out and grab 1% of those 35k people(350) and make them customers. and those 350 people go home and order and place an order for animal stuff.... a typical supp order for me would cost me ATLEAST 100$ ... so do the math the 350 new customers that they made all spending ATLEAST 100$ gets them at the BARE MINIMUM $35,000 that they werent getting before. and thats for ONE order. think about those same 350 people spending $35,000 EACH MONTH for one year.... $420,000.... easily covering expenses. BOOM.

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 1:20 pm
To me, the whole presence at a trade show is to give back to the community and give them a physical representation of the company instead of just ad's in a magazine or whatever the case may be. Knowing that, you would think you would point most of your resources to what's going to give them the most memorable experience and as a company you have to be creative with that(ie. the cage). A split vendor area of Universal/Animal would definitely have the potential to shock the crowd in attendance.

Agreed. The big pro to a show is that fans can engage with a company, the reps and the athletes. A booth can bring a brand to "life" and, like ya said, allow for a company to give back to their fans. The issue here is, IMHO, that if ya see Universal and Animal as being the same, then ya ain't really gonna increase traffic by that much.


thats if you break it down by person whos there... but what if not all 35k people in attendance are loyal fans and what if because of the split booth Animal/Universal reach out and grab 1% of those 35k people(350) and make them customers. and those 350 people go home and order and place an order for animal stuff.... a typical supp order for me would cost me ATLEAST 100$ ... so do the math the 350 new customers that they made all spending ATLEAST 100$ gets them at the BARE MINIMUM $35,000 that they werent getting before. and thats for ONE order. think about those same 350 people spending $35,000 EACH MONTH for one year.... $420,000.... easily covering expenses. BOOM.

Yup. In that hypothetical scenario of 35k, of which only 20k might be unique, not all would stop by an Animal or Universal booth. Just like if you were a fan of Ford ya might not visit GM's booth at an auto show. The big leap is takin' 350 new or existing customers and gettin' 'em to buy after the show. The prob with ur argument is that if they each spend $100, Corporate ain't makin' $100. Far from it.

Big D
05-20-11, 2:12 pm
Yup. In that hypothetical scenario of 35k, of which only 20k might be unique, not all would stop by an Animal or Universal booth. Just like if you were a fan of Ford ya might not visit GM's booth at an auto show. The big leap is takin' 350 new or existing customers and gettin' 'em to buy after the show. The prob with ur argument is that if they each spend $100, Corporate ain't makin' $100. Far from it.

right 20k might be unique but thats why i threw out the 1%.. so only getting 350 new Animal/Universal "followers"
but like you said even if they all arent spending $100 a month-- say theyre spending $50 a month.... its that revenue that they have that they wouldnt have if they didnt go at all.. that was my point... it made sense in my head but sometimes the wheels up top are working faster than the hands typing haha

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 2:16 pm
right 20k might be unique but thats why i threw out the 1%.. so only getting 350 new Animal/Universal "followers"
but like you said even if they all arent spending $100 a month-- say theyre spending $50 a month.... its that revenue that they have that they wouldnt have if they didnt go at all.. that was my point... it made sense in my head but sometimes the wheels up top are working faster than the hands typing haha

Of those 350, will ya really get 100% to be loyal customers for life who buy month after month? That's the leap of faith here... Now, let's go back to that $200k of hypothetical monopoly money. What if ya took that and sampled Rage like crazy... Everywhere. Would that be better than a tradeshow?

SuperFlexSteve
05-20-11, 2:16 pm
right 20k might be unique but thats why i threw out the 1%.. so only getting 350 new Animal/Universal "followers"
but like you said even if they all arent spending $100 a month-- say theyre spending $50 a month.... its that revenue that they have that they wouldnt have if they didnt go at all.. that was my point... it made sense in my head but sometimes the wheels up top are working faster than the hands typing haha

What he was saying is that the company doesn't get that full $100. You gotta think, most likely the customers are buying the product from one of the stores online which get the product at a wholesale rate and then mark it up. So say one buys $100 worth of Animal supps... universal probably only really makes $50(if that) on them.

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 2:22 pm
What he was saying is that the company doesn't get that full $100. You gotta think, most likely the customers are buying the product from one of the stores online which get the product at a wholesale rate and then mark it up. So say one buys $100 worth of Animal supps... universal probably only really makes $50(if that) on them.

I would doubt even half....

Big D
05-20-11, 2:23 pm
Of those 350, will ya really get 100% to be loyal customers for life who buy month after month? That's the leap of faith here... Now, let's go back to that $200k of hypothetical monopoly money. What if ya took that and sampled Rage like crazy... Everywhere. Would that be better than a tradeshow?

but RAGE is only one product of one brand of the entire company. a company that has 3 different brands under it. those 350 people learn about Universal/Animal/SportsPharma and they now have a 1 stop brand in which to get all their supplements... if you throw rage around people will learn that Rage is the shit but what happens when they need a postworkout supplement and they go somewhere else.... with a tradeshow they can see that the family(UN/AN/SP) has everythign they need

Universal Rep
05-20-11, 2:25 pm
but RAGE is only one product of one brand of the entire company. a company that has 3 different brands under it. those 350 people learn about Universal/Animal/SportsPharma and they now have a 1 stop brand in which to get all their supplements... if you throw rage around people will learn that Rage is the shit but what happens when they need a postworkout supplement and they go somewhere else.... with a tradeshow they can see that the family(UN/AN/SP) has everythign they need

That's true, but the average consumer buys across brands... The typical buyer buys what is, for better or worse, popular. Ain't that right? Just cuz a consumer might see something don't mean he'll switch after one tradeshow experience. Brand or product loyalty takes a lot of time... Unless it's super-hyped. And super-hype is not something Corporate choose to do...

Big D
05-20-11, 2:28 pm
That's true, but the average consumer buys across brands... The typical buyer buys what is, for better or worse, popular. Ain't that right? Just cuz a consumer might see something don't mean he'll switch after one tradeshow experience. Brand or product loyalty takes a lot of time... Unless it's super-hyped. And super-hype is not something Corporate choose to do...


100% BUT if a customer realizes that Animal/UN/SP have the best shit out there... that switch from a 1 time customer to a loyal customer happens a lot faster

Big D
05-20-11, 2:29 pm
That's true, but the average consumer buys across brands... The typical buyer buys what is, for better or worse, popular. Ain't that right? Just cuz a consumer might see something don't mean he'll switch after one tradeshow experience. Brand or product loyalty takes a lot of time... Unless it's super-hyped. And super-hype is not something Corporate choose to do...

and you gotta agree that by not super-hyping things corporate is doing the right thing..

GUNS
05-20-11, 2:34 pm
Just like if you were a fan of Ford ya might not visit GM's booth at an auto show. The big leap is takin' 350 new or existing customers and gettin' 'em to buy after the show.

I once went shopping for a Chevy, drove out from the same lot in a Dodge. With great salesamanship, our better brand will pull in other customers!

SuperFlexSteve
05-20-11, 2:37 pm
That's true, but the average consumer buys across brands... The typical buyer buys what is, for better or worse, popular. Ain't that right? Just cuz a consumer might see something don't mean he'll switch after one tradeshow experience. Brand or product loyalty takes a lot of time... Unless it's super-hyped. And super-hype is not something Corporate choose to do...

Just jack everyone up on Rage at the Olympia.. by the end of the day they will all figure out, that's some good stuff and will think "Let me see what other products they have to offer". In reality though, you have to set an atmosphere that's going to catch peoples attention, and whenever they come to check it out that's when the staff comes in to sell customers on the products. As far as corp choosing not to hype up the products, that's a good choice because you have many loyal animal's out there that promote daily for the company. Personally, I tell people about the products all the time at the gym and that's on top of animal gear that I wear sometimes.

GUNS
05-20-11, 2:40 pm
I hear you flex. I got over here to Bahrain and no one had Animal at all. With people seeing what Im doing and how Im growing, they are asking questions. Needless to say, there are alot of Animal cans floating around here now.

Back To Basics
05-20-11, 8:40 pm
But you got to think too, how many people come to the CAGE to see the house-ox-wrath plus these huge power lifting
events.. With only Universal, the fans wont see Evan, Erik, Frank and guys like Big D dead lifting 700+. You can't have classic 70's style with modern day physiques and enormous weights thrown around... If it's Animal with Universal with it than I think that will get the fans seeing their favorite bodybuilders, awesome events + all the animal and universal products. That way your promoting everything in the line.

rev8ball
05-21-11, 11:57 am
And since we're on the topic of debating UN or Animal, what about SportPharma? Why haven't they been thrown in to the mix?

BigAnt
05-21-11, 11:11 pm
I think the whole Muslce beach in Vegas is cool! Have The Cage indoors at the expo and have the Universal side at the Mandalay Bay Beach. Like old school lifting and teaching seminars...Sounds pretty cool! Like arm blasters and old school rounded metal York plates-dumbbells, narrow benches, you know the 70's-80's era of gym equipment...