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View Full Version : Can one grow with just whole foods?



BarbellManiac
05-28-11, 1:11 am
This question always crosses my mind, I know supplements are just the icing on the cake, but can one grow just off whole food?, like 5-6 big whole food meals including post workout. No supplements at all.

BigChrisF
05-28-11, 2:29 am
yes.

J A Y
05-28-11, 3:26 am
yes, I feel supps are a massive pain in the ass and always forget to take them or get sick of shakes, not a priority of mine... I would rather just eat lots of whole foods

GUNS
05-28-11, 5:23 am
Absolutely. When I first started lifting 20 years ago, I had no money for supps. I went from 179 to 198 pretty quick and I had a super high metabolism. Only thing I ever took back then was Animal pak.

zubda345
05-28-11, 8:28 am
Yeah. As said by all whole foods are gonna make u grow... Supps help u get there, but supps ain't nothin without Whole foods...

NickSP
05-28-11, 12:41 pm
No doubt, I would guess it would even be more ideal...it's just a pain in the ass. Between cooking, appetite, convenience with jobs or daily life or whatever, etc. it's nice to be able to just have a shake at certain times, or your postworkout nutrition be some sort of shake, capsules, or whatever. Supps are mostly a thing of convenience in my opinion. You COULD eat a shit load of steak or something and get a few grams of creatine on a daily basis, but I would think that would be slightly less convenient for you and your wallet, especially if you want to ingest all your creatine at once (pre-workout). I don't know how much creatine is in food exactly, but I imagine it'd be a bit hard to down enough steak in one sitting every day before your workout to get a few capsules worth, or a single scoop of a shake. Other than micronutrition and certain ingredients like that, no problem. PWO powders are not the only way to ingest protein or quick acting carbs believe it or not.

GUNS
05-28-11, 1:17 pm
I thought we were talking about growing with foods, not about specific supps? Your right when you say you can't get enough in a meal(creatine).

Growing is all about food intake to repair your muscles and give them energy to make it through the day. Recovery and pre-storing energy. Food is where it's at, bottom line. I don't think you could survive on 5 - 6 shakes a day with no food. Man, how boring would that be anyway. They are conveinient at the right times. but you will grow better with whole foods. You here it all the time, that guys change out a shake meal for a wole food meal and BAM, growth!
Get a good base by eating as many whole food as pssible.

Appollonian
05-28-11, 5:19 pm
I thought we were talking about growing with foods, not about specific supps? Your right when you say you can't get enough in a meal(creatine).

Growing is all about food intake to repair your muscles and give them energy to make it through the day. Recovery and pre-storing energy. Food is where it's at, bottom line. I don't think you could survive on 5 - 6 shakes a day with no food. Man, how boring would that be anyway. They are conveinient at the right times. but you will grow better with whole foods. You here it all the time, that guys change out a shake meal for a wole food meal and BAM, growth!
Get a good base by eating as many whole food as pssible.

I agree with whole foods being the key, but sometimes during the day, when you may only have 2-3 minutes to eat a meal, it's hard to beat a blended shake of milk/whey/peanut butter/banana.

NJC_Manhattan
05-28-11, 11:01 pm
In a word.... abso-fucking-lutely. Supps are just a bridge

prowrestler
05-29-11, 2:43 am
no, human beings only gained any muscle once the supplement industry came in the past century....

is this a serious post?

GUNS
05-29-11, 9:21 am
^^^^^^^^^^ nice!

mritter3
05-29-11, 9:49 am
Grow on whole foods alone......YES!.....food is the key for growth.

BarbellManiac
05-29-11, 11:08 am
no, human beings only gained any muscle once the supplement industry came in the past century....

is this a serious post?

Once the supplement industry arrived gaining muscle was easier due to the high quality proteins available in powdered form, my question was also regarding if recovery was easy with post workout whole food.

Funky
06-10-11, 1:31 pm
All this talk about whole food has made me hungry! Of course you can grow off only whole foods. Supplements are indeed helpful to supplement what your diet is missing, but if you have a point on diet it is almost all right there!

SailinScotty
06-10-11, 3:41 pm
Order of importance in my opinion.
1.Diet
2. Rest
3.Training
4. Supps.

IronWilson
06-12-11, 8:33 pm
Whey protein is probably what the main supplement being considered here is. I think whey is essentially food (albeit a bit different on the molecular level). It is extracted protein put in the form of a drink. So it is about the same as any protein source without the other nutrients that natural food provides. Whey is one of the fastest absorbing protein sources, but the difference between whey and albumin (protein from egg whites.) is negligible.

So to answer your question, yes.

fenix237
06-13-11, 11:57 pm
not only can you grow just as well eating whole foods, you will grow more. steak/chicken/eggs/beef trumps whey, casien..etc anyday of the week

mixing pb, bananas, oats, milk into a shake doesn't mean they are no longer whole foods..also the fats and fiber will slow down the whey too (unless you are PWO)

in the end do your best with what you got to hit your macros

Aggression
06-14-11, 8:18 am
no, human beings only gained any muscle once the supplement industry came in the past century....

is this a serious post?

THIS^ x infinite.

Aggression
06-14-11, 8:23 am
Once the supplement industry arrived gaining muscle was easier due to the high quality proteins available in powdered form, my question was also regarding if recovery was easy with post workout whole food.

Although true, its also caused a lot of headaches, problems, and issues. Once the supplement industry gained popularity, people started to rely on supplements in place of whole food because its 'easier'. No one wants to put in the work. Everyone is looking for the easy way out. Then they started bitching about not getting gains from taking 'X' supplement, when in reality, their entire daily protein intake was from shakes. Add to that, competing companies tried to out-do each other by coming up with these 'steroid-like/prohormone' products that will eventually lead to the termination of all supplements, their companies, and the industry in general.

Honestly, I wish the entire supplement industry never gained success and instead, everyone had to just rely on eating to make progress.

Appollonian
06-14-11, 9:19 am
Although true, its also caused a lot of headaches, problems, and issues. Once the supplement industry gained popularity, people started to rely on supplements in place of whole food because its 'easier'. No one wants to put in the work. Everyone is looking for the easy way out. Then they started bitching about not getting gains from taking 'X' supplement, when in reality, their entire daily protein intake was from shakes. Add to that, competing companies tried to out-do each other by coming up with these 'steroid-like/prohormone' products that will eventually lead to the termination of all supplements, their companies, and the industry in general.

Honestly, I wish the entire supplement industry never gained success and instead, everyone had to just rely on eating to make progress.

While I don't lament the fact that the supplement industry is doing well... If I'm not mistaken some on the Forum earn their living that way, it is unfortunate that some feel this is the key to growth instead of whole foods and hard work.

Some people use supps as a tool to aide in shortcommings (vitamins) or when in a pinch of time (MRP) and I think this is can be used for success, while others use them as a crutch.

GUNS
06-14-11, 9:56 am
While I don't lament the fact that the supplement industry is doing well... If I'm not mistaken some on the Forum earn their living that way, it is unfortunate that some feel this is the key to growth instead of whole foods and hard work.

Some people use supps as a tool to aide in shortcommings (vitamins) or when in a pinch of time (MRP) and I think this is can be used for success, while others use them as a crutch.

^^^^^ Well said!

P Diesel
06-14-11, 10:49 am
i come from the school of thought that supplemeents are just what their name implies...a supplement to your diet, complementing your dietary needs by providing more of what u lack by consuming whole foods.

ur body will process whole foods much more readily than supplements. i just had this conversation with my boss a few weeks ago. those who consume shakes at every meal instead of a quality whole food are doing their body and firthermore their training a disservice. whatever u cannot consume through whole food is where supplements come in. they are essential but not the core of your diet

naturalguy
06-14-11, 11:24 am
You can absolutely make great gains on just whole foods

Appollonian
06-14-11, 11:34 am
The OP asked specifically about post workout, and my main reason for hitting up sole carbs and some protein then is because I am too nauseous for about an hour after training to eat. If I could I would eat some eggs and rice or whatever; I tried in college but had bad results...

Aggression
06-14-11, 11:42 am
The OP asked specifically about post workout, and my main reason for hitting up sole carbs and some protein then is because I am too nauseous for about an hour after training to eat. If I could I would eat some eggs and rice or whatever; I tried in college but had bad results...

You don't have to eat solid foods postWO. When I was in college, my postWO was always about 8oz grape juice, which provided a solid 40g glucose, straight into the body. About 30-45min later, I'd have a whole food meal. BOOM.

GUNS
06-14-11, 12:06 pm
Aggression, your reveiling all the secrets man!

BarbellManiac
06-14-11, 12:14 pm
You don't have to eat solid foods postWO. When I was in college, my postWO was always about 8oz grape juice, which provided a solid 40g glucose, straight into the body. About 30-45min later, I'd have a whole food meal. BOOM.

No protein post workout?

BarbellManiac
06-14-11, 12:15 pm
Thanks for the answers guys. I'm trying to make all my meals whole food, aside from maybe post workout. Just wanted to experiment whole food post workout as well.

Aggression
06-14-11, 12:17 pm
Aggression, your reveiling all the secrets man!

Don't worry. I keep all the good ones locked away,


No protein post workout?

Nope. I haven't used protein postWO in well over a year, and I've had the best gains of my life. Off-season I use EAA Nitro. On-season, I use Atomic 7 post.

Sprint
06-14-11, 12:17 pm
Rapidly turning into 1 of the best damn threads on here.

Appollonian
06-14-11, 12:27 pm
Don't worry. I keep all the good ones locked away,



Nope. I haven't used protein postWO in well over a year, and I've had the best gains of my life. Off-season I use EAA Nitro. On-season, I use Atomic 7 post.


No protein just aminos... Nice.

BarbellManiac
06-14-11, 12:32 pm
Don't worry. I keep all the good ones locked away,



Nope. I haven't used protein postWO in well over a year, and I've had the best gains of my life. Off-season I use EAA Nitro. On-season, I use Atomic 7 post.

So it's safe to say that just carbs post workout prevent catabolism? And protein in the form of whole food will do just as well half an hour later? This is an inference made out of your grape juice philosophy.

LegendKillerJosh
06-14-11, 1:00 pm
I eat whole foods even post workout. Shakes can be a pain in the ass, especially washing your blender multiple times per day. I eat whatever I got in the fridge plus chocolate milk post workout. A sandwich (either steak or peanut butter) and 3 cups of chocolate milk works great for me.

Aggression
06-14-11, 1:17 pm
So it's safe to say that just carbs post workout prevent catabolism? And protein in the form of whole food will do just as well half an hour later? This is an inference made out of your grape juice philosophy.

Correct. Like I said, I've had the best results in my career while just using EAA Nitro postWO, followed by a whole food meal 45-60min later. The EAA Nitro digests very quickly without leaving me full/bloated. Our guy Evan does the same thing; just aminos postWO.


I eat whole foods even post workout. Shakes can be a pain in the ass, especially washing your blender multiple times per day. I eat whatever I got in the fridge plus chocolate milk post workout. A sandwich (either steak or peanut butter) and 3 cups of chocolate milk works great for me.

Dude chocolate milk is fucking fantastic postWO. Every now and then when I'm bulking, I'll stop and get a WaWa 'Double Dutch Chocolate Milk'. Its 12oz and contains 70g sugar .. and its the best damn tasting thing ever.

Funky
06-14-11, 1:24 pm
Correct. Like I said, I've had the best results in my career while just using EAA Nitro postWO, followed by a whole food meal 45-60min later. The EAA Nitro digests very quickly without leaving me full/bloated. Our guy Evan does the same thing; just aminos postWO.



Dude chocolate milk is fucking fantastic postWO. Every now and then when I'm bulking, I'll stop and get a WaWa 'Double Dutch Chocolate Milk'. Its 12oz and contains 70g sugar .. and its the best damn tasting thing ever.

Agg if you like grape juice with your aminos post workout you should try some acia berry juice with it. I started using it and am loving the extra anti oxys and the taste is pretty awesome to gives a break from the grape juice. I also drink grape juice pre workout with my storm so gives me a break from the same taste.

Aggression
06-14-11, 1:27 pm
Agg if you like grape juice with your aminos post workout you should try some acia berry juice with it. I started using it and am loving the extra anti oxys and the taste is pretty awesome to gives a break from the grape juice. I also drink grape juice pre workout with my storm so gives me a break from the same taste.

niCe. I may give that a shot. I used grape juice back in college when money was tight; I couldn't afford too much. Now that I'm a little more 'capable', I like to use EAA Nitro postWO.

dannynb
06-14-11, 1:27 pm
I like many wasted money and time on supp after supp. I started training with my local mentor some years back and when he took me off all supps and put me on just whole foods I shot through the roof on strength and size. Then we added in a multi, EFA, and whey/casein mix to the arsenal. Eventually we found to save money all I need personally to assist with my whole foods and goals are a mutli, amino's, joint, efa's, creatine....I've ditched all others except here and there. But honestly whole foods are at the basis of all sound training regiments no matter the goal, sport, or other.

BarbellManiac
06-14-11, 1:36 pm
Thanks for the advice Aggression and everyone. I might as well try the EAA nitro I have laying around, I stopped using it because I wasn't a fan of aminos too much.

Aggression
06-14-11, 1:49 pm
I like many wasted money and time on supp after supp. I started training with my local mentor some years back and when he took me off all supps and put me on just whole foods I shot through the roof on strength and size. Then we added in a multi, EFA, and whey/casein mix to the arsenal. Eventually we found to save money all I need personally to assist with my whole foods and goals are a mutli, amino's, joint, efa's, creatine....I've ditched all others except here and there. But honestly whole foods are at the basis of all sound training regiments no matter the goal, sport, or other.

Bingo. Aside from whole foods, supplementing with the basics; multi, EFA, and some protein for emergency purposes is all you need. That's why you're a big, strong dude, DB.


Thanks for the advice Aggression and everyone. I might as well try the EAA nitro I have laying around, I stopped using it because I wasn't a fan of aminos too much.

Give it a shot. I think you'll be surprised. Break the mold in your head that says, 'I need protein postWO' and just hit up one serving of EAA Nitro. Follow that up with a solid meal 45-60min later. GAINS

LegendKillerJosh
06-15-11, 12:21 am
To me, some of the only supps worthwhile are food supps. What I mean is stuff you can get from food but that supps make convenient. Amino acids, protein powder and a multi. Don't worry about efa's, the average shmuch american who follows a terrible diet still gets approximately triple the percentage of calories needed from omega 3's daily. Use whey protein when you need extra protein but just can't eat any more whole food. Aminos like nitro or eaa stack are fantastic pre, intra, and postworkout when whole food wouldn't be practical. A good multi like Pak is an insurance policy for the guy lifting heavy weights everyday. Use creatine if you must. I also take FLEX cause you can't get those compounds from food. Other than that, most supps are bullshit, especially those designed to increase testosterone or mimic hormones cause that would be a steroid and be illegal. Are supplements very convenient? Of course. Are they neccessary? NO, and don't ever believe real food can be replaced.

GUNS
06-15-11, 2:03 am
I would agree with you on everything except the test boosters. When you get to be in your 30's and into 40's you'll understand. I have taken Test and Stak combo numerous times over the last 2 years and it works. No placebo effect there. I get stronger by far, and way more hungry all the time, and with that, I put on great size. I have tried a powerlifting cycle while NOT on Test/Stak, and the additional weight on the bar is hard to come by. I am on them now and going into my last 2 weeks, I feel great, have gotten strong again, and am up in size.

Proof from the trenches!